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CODE GEASS R2 – 18

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Summary:

With the Gefjun Disturbers disabling all fifth-generation and older Nightmares, Lelouch orders the Black Knights to finish off the rest of the defenses before Schneizel’s main unit arrives. Schneizel is already directing the Britannian forces, and he wants the Lancelot to first take out the Gefjun Disturbers. The question, however, is if Suzaku will pilot it. At that moment, Lloyd and Cecile are trying to convince Nina that she can’t pilot the Lancelot, and the issue is finally settled when Suzaku appears in his flight suit and questions if Nina has the resolve to not shoot the FLEIJA. After Suzaku launches, he quickly joins the battle and tries to convince Zero to end hostilities because the Lancelot is now equipped with a heavy tactical-class warhead. Lelouch doesn’t believe him though and orders Jeremiah in the Sutherland Sieg to attack. Suzaku is surprised to see Jeremiah there, and back on the Ikaruga, Rakshata is curious as well about why both Jeremiah and Guilford are on their side. Nina urges Suzaku to fire the FLEIJA after Guilford joins the battle against him, but Suzaku is determined not to use the weapon, and he gets some relief when Gino arrives piloting the Tristan.

Meanwhile, both Rolo and Sayoko are making their way through the Tokyo Government Building, and Rolo has plans to kill Nunnally because he feels that he alone should be Lelouch’s family. Miss Romeyer is at this moment trying to convince Nunnally to leave, but she resists until she hears Schneizel ordered it. Back outside, Suzaku thinks that Lelouch started this battle because of him, but Lelouch denies it and points out how Suzaku betrayed his parents, Japan, and their friendship. Lelouch’s thoughts are interrupted when his Shinkirou suddenly gets charged by the Mordred, and he’s forced to fight Anya on his own. Unfortunately, the tide of battle is turning all around him as Schneizel’s forces succeed in taking out some of the trains carrying Gefjun Disturbers, and power to the main government building is restored. Even after Anya drops out of the battle because she experiences another reaction, Lelouch has to deal with the arrival of Luciano. To make matters worse, he gets word that the Emperor’s flagship is coming, and he doesn’t have Schneizel’s confidence the Emperor won’t come to the battlefield.

The one thing working in the Black Knights’ favor is that Sayoko has now rescued Kallen and has taken her to the newly upgraded Guren. Using the Guren’s new speed, Kallen is able to come to Lelouch’s rescue, and since she can easily handle all of the Percival’s weapons, she soon destroys Luciano. Suzaku and Gino then rejoin the fight, and Gino observes that Kallen chose her Kouzuki name over her Stadtfeld one. When Kallen wonders aloud if she should be happy or sad that they’re meeting on the battlefield, Gino suggests that she enjoy it. Meanwhile, Toudou launches an attack on Schneizel’s ship, but it gets interrupted when Asahina sends him the testimonial data from the killed-in-action Kinoshita. Asahina thinks that this proves they can’t trust Zero, and he plans to enter the government building to capture Rolo. By now, Sayoko has located Nunnally, and Rolo is in the process of securing a Knightmare to guard the escape shuttle. Lelouch subsequently orders Kallen to take out Suzaku so that they’re rid of all obstacles, and Lloyd urges Suzaku to run because the Lancelot can’t stand up to the Guren.

Suzaku stays in the battle though, and the Guren starts shredding the Lancelot piece by piece. In this situation, Nina continues to yell for Suzaku to fire the FLEIJA, but Suzaku continues to refuse. He soon realizes that he can’t win and is ready to accept his death as atonement, but Lelouch’s Geass order to live then kicks in, and Suzaku does what he needs to survive: he escapes Kallen’s attack and fires the FLEIJA. Lelouch realizes too late what Suzaku has just done, and he can only yell out Nunnally’s name as the blast envelopes the main government building, killing everyone inside. His own life is saved only after Guilford uses his Vincent to push the Shinkirou out of the blast radius, though this claims Guilford’s life in the process. In the aftermath of the blast, Lelouch radios Rolo and asks to speak with Nunnally, but Rolo tells him that she’s dead. Lelouch thinks that this is a lie, and he begs Rolo to let him speak with Nunnally for just a little while.

Preview

CODE GEASS R2   18   Preview 01 CODE GEASS R2   18   Preview 02 CODE GEASS R2   18   Preview 03

RIP Nunnally? Color me at least a little skeptical. The fact that Sayoko was with her makes me suspicious that they could have somehow magically survived, and even if that’s not the case, I doubt that this is the last we’ll hear from her. She’s too much of a key of a character to leave completely dead, and I think one possible scenario could be that Nunnally ends up in Marianne’s world while her death acts as a catalyst for Lelouch to go insane and start to make some really stupid moves. I’m not very optimistic about his prospects because each additional death of someone dear to him decreases the chances that he’ll get some sort of happy ending, and it doesn’t help either that he appears to be losing his grip on the Black Knights now that Asahina might have finally convinced Toudou not to trust him.

Assuming that Nunnally is indeed dead, determining who’s at fault is rather complicated. Suzaku is the one who pulled the trigger, but the Geass to live from Lelouch is what led to it. You could also argue that this would have never happened if Nina hadn’t developed the FREIJA or if the Black Knights hadn’t attacked Tokyo while Nunnally was there or if Schneizel hadn’t interfered with Suzaku and Lelouch’s reconciliation….the list could go on. But what’s likely going to happen – as the preview indicates – is that Suzaku will blame himself and Lelouch will take his anger out on others. Suzaku in particular is in an interesting bind because he can’t atone for what he’s done by letting himself die because of the Geass effect forcing him to continue to live. The only ways I can see around that are if he gets killed in a situation that he has no control over (i.e. he’s not in the Lancelot) or if the Geass effect gets removed somehow. But even if Suzaku is able to die eventually, we’re still a ways away from that since he hasn’t even gotten his final Lancelot upgrade.

And on that note, I have to marvel at how overpowered the new Guren is. It’s completely untouchable right now with its speed, and that’s approaching Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice levels of ridiculousness. The only potential rivals are probably Bismarck in the Galahad or Suzaku in the upcoming Lancelot Albion, and as long as Kallen remains loyal to Zero/Lelouch, he’ll have a lot of power at his disposal. Of course, Kallen’s loyalty is far from guaranteed, and the preview suggests that Nunnally’s death will have an impact on her. Having said all that, I’m more curious at this point though to see what the Emperor is up to since he appears to be ready to get back into the action.

August 10, 2008 at 4:56 am
466 comments »
  • August 12, 2008 at 8:02 pmgeorge from soviet union

    @Kalessin: On the your post, dated 3:56 am on August 12th, 2008, about F.R.E.I.J.A, I’m thinking it might have cause a black hole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole

    …damn physics made my head hurt

  • August 12, 2008 at 9:04 pmUngas

    possible result why sayoko couldn’t reply on zero’s radio:
    1. it was destroyed by rolo! seriously! rolo has all the powers to make it possible… he could have even destroyed it before karen was saved by the otome-nin or during the airplane scene when rolo was thinking outside of it thus could’ve have hidden himself when sayoko came and activate his geass to break it. remember rolo was planning to “erase” nunnally from lelouch.

    2. it was destroyed on the struggle while saving nunnaly and karen. remember sayoko didn’t contact anyone during the mission! or rather couldn’t contact anyone because it was hit while she was avoiding speeding bullets. or was destroyed by romeyer when she tried to shoot the maid.

    3. this reason is wtf! she could have misplaced it anywhere! remember she’s a bit… careless that is.

    4. it was vaporized by freya! as simple as that.

    75% of it the maid and co. are still alive… but 25% is still a big percent to survive an implosion that could vaporize anything…

    —-

    FACT
    the reason why no emp took place was because no EXPLOSION occured. therefore no shockwave was produced. that’s all there is to it…

    if a mini “black hole” did occured during the proccessed then then all those near the blast point be sucked as well due to the gravitational force a blackhole has: it didn’t occur therefore it was not indeed a blackhole

  • August 12, 2008 at 9:49 pmKaioshin Sama

    Duck and Cover.

    Seriously though, why are people reading into a techno-babble viewscreen so much. I’ll just say right now if you are looking for a way in which some of the characters survive then you are looking at entirely the wrong scenes for clues.

    If one really wants to know the reality of the situation, pay special attention to all the scenes featuring Rohmeyer and/or Nunally and what Rohmeyer says is the plan for Nunally’s evacuation versus what happens. Look for the visual cues as well in those scenes and you’ll find the truth of the matter. I’ll say no more in this location because I want people to figure this out for themselves if they haven’t already.

  • August 12, 2008 at 10:43 pmSilentveil

    Nunnelly is dead. Get over it.

    She has a 10% chance of getting out of it, and a 90% chance of being blown up. I don’t know why being caught up in a WMD’s blast isn’t enough for people in turns of dramatic, but go figure!

    Unless, this show does a matrix or better yet a Macross 7 …yes that was the gayiest revival I have ever bother to look at. SHe is dead. Very ..Very dead, and if she comes back …I don’t really see a point to her character any more.

    I mean, I know people are going to hate me saying this, but she is a very minor character & her only worth comes in being Lelouche’s reason for the the mess he is in. IN all retrospects, she can die and no one will miss her for long. I mean, how many episodes have she been missing from entirely beforehand?

    So goodbye, Nunnelly.

  • August 12, 2008 at 10:52 pmMaMai

    @Kalessin

    I just figured something out Anya and her diary. We find out in R2 (in the year 2018 a.t.b.) that the diary was written 9 years ago.

    However in episode 7 of the first season (in the year 2017 a.t.b.) it says that Marianne died 8 years ago(which would be the year 2009) .

    R2 is one year after the first season ended.

    So 9 years ago is really 2009, the same year Marianne died.
    So Anya’s diary makes sense to have been written then.

  • August 13, 2008 at 12:17 amKalessin

    @Silentveil
    I certainly won’t claim that Nunnally is definitively alive. There is every possibility that she’s dead. Her escape craft was close enough to the blast that the pink light shone quite brightly in it. We also never saw the craft take off. There was however, plenty of opportunity for it to do so. As such, I think that there is also every possibility that she’s alive. We really can’t know at this point. We’ll really just have to wait and see.

    However, as per the reasons that I stated previously, I think that she is alive. And here’s some food for thought: how many shows – Anime or otherwise – have you seen where they make it ambiguous as to whether a character died or not and it turns out in the end that the character did die? It’s generally the case that if we don’t know whether they’re alive or not, then they’re alive. I think that if she were dead, Sunrise would have said so. But instead, their character chart says MIA for everyone that was in the blast radius. I certainly don’t think that everyone survived, but the ambiguity implies that at least some of them did and those in the escape craft are the most likely to have done so. I mean, after such a blast that made it seem like no one could have survived, why mark them as MIA instead of dead if they’re actually all dead? They could do it just to keep the fans on their toes I suppose, but if they did die, how would they ever prove it now that the blast has wiped out everything in the area? They can, however, show if someone survived. So, it’s hard to show within the show that they’re dead instead of MIA, but it would be easy to show that they were alive instead of MIA if that turned out to be the case.

    We really don’t know whether Nunnally is alive or not. She could very well be dead. But given the fact that they left the opportunity wide open for her to be alive, I, personally, think that she is. We’ll just have to wait and see though I guess.

  • August 13, 2008 at 12:48 amSilentveil

    Kalessin@

    No clue on the MIA thing, but the next episode, they simply confirm them as dead …kind of like with Shirley. Hold one big funeral and those characters simply do not show up anymore throughout the series. How to show they are dead isn’t that hard? It’s harder to figure out someway to bring everyone back from that one.

    Anyway, we will find out sooner or later. I still say they are dead, and things should get interesting from there.

  • August 13, 2008 at 12:54 amKalessin

    @Silentveil
    But that’s my point. How can you confirm that they’re dead? There’s no body. With Shirley, you not only clearly saw her die but they had her body. With everyone caught in FLEIJA’s blast, there wouldn’t be a body. There’s no way within the show to confirm that they’re dead. The closest that you could get to that is if they simply never showed up again. The only way to confirm their deaths at this point is for the folks at Sunrise to say that it’s official. If any of them are alive, on the other hand, when they return, we’ll see them and know that they’re alive.

    Really, at this point, about all we can say is that Sunrise made it look like Nunnally and company died but left the door open for them to not be. Without Sunrise saying anything (and if they put MIA on the character chart for everyone in the blast, then they’re not going to say anything at this point), all we can do is speculate.

  • August 13, 2008 at 2:38 amUngas

    it was really weird that rolo survived the blast yet he was almost with them (he was outside the aircraft after all) before frejya imploded. if rolo survived, how can they cant survived? even villeta falling with ougi on the cliff that has a rocky bottom survived the fall which was almost impossible to live in that kind of situation. but since ougi and viletta didn’t die, it is quite possible that nunnaly and the rest survived the blast but still quiet farfetched.

    but for me it’ll be best if nunnally died, it’ll be bad for this episode if she indeed lived… (this might as well cure lelouch’s siscon but still he’s a lolicon!)

  • August 13, 2008 at 3:42 amEffe. Jaye.

    Nunnally escaped with Sayoko, ‘Nuff said. She probably won’t reappear until a much later episode though. Maybe she’ll come back in the finale and single-handedly comfort & convince Lelouch into stopping the fighting. Bleh. Anyone think Britannia will punish Suzaku?

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:27 ammarinelzen

    Early on in the episode nina says to fire freya and you can kill zero now. she is the head developer that developed the weapon, so … If its purpose was not to kill why did she insist that it would kill zero. Plus her sole purpose in life is to kill zero. If its not a weapon to kill then thats a flaw.
    Either way – people could have escaped because we didnt see them die.

  • August 13, 2008 at 7:56 amTony

    Lelouch is starting to look a lot like Light.

  • August 13, 2008 at 8:07 amputz

    BIG QUESTION MARK regarding ROLO’s escape… i really wonder how he survived since the last time we saw him was when he stood near the spectacled britanian-women (forgot her name) who stood near Nunally before she went into the airship.. It was indicated that the women died (she even shouted ‘why would FLEIA be launched here!”).. Could Rolo’s miraculous escape indicated slight possibility of Nunally’s survival?

  • August 13, 2008 at 8:18 amputz

    Argh i posted before looking at the last thread.. (my comment is similar with Ungas’s above) sorry2..

    Anyway.. how could Sayako escaped since she was panic herself during the explosion.. if only she could blink out with Nunally in a second, then both of them could survived…

    or… could it be that the what happened to the knight of six (she suddenly got affected by ‘mental elevator’ (or their kind..) when she pushed Zero’s knightmare) brought up the possibility of Nunally’s survival…?

  • August 13, 2008 at 8:19 amshadowblack

    Rollo was in a stolen Sutherland and was supposed to clear the way for Nunnaly and Sayako’s craft so that they could escape. So his survival doesn’t prove anything.

  • August 13, 2008 at 8:49 amLithonite

    If Rolo is alive, so is nunally. Rolo was NEXT to the ship nunally was when lelouch called him.

    so someone needs to explain how he made it and she did not.

  • August 13, 2008 at 9:13 amRath

    Dear sweet mother of god why is Nina still alive! Better her than Guilford, Bradley, Nunally (maybe) et al.

  • August 13, 2008 at 9:29 amJordiBlau

    @t Lithonite

    Actually Rolo wasn’t last seen next to ship.. he was last seen flying in a sutherland close to the Britannian forces, when of the Britannians asked him why he wasn’t retreating because of Fleija. So after at he got out as fast as he could..

    And if I’m correct I didn’t see Nunnaly’s ship anywhere near him at that time.. So, no his survival doesn’t mean Nunnaly is still alive.. But I won’t rule out that she isn’t anymore either.

  • August 13, 2008 at 10:16 amLithonite

    Suzaku Haters: Seriously wtf?!?! He purposely took the tactical weapon with him so it WOULD NOT be used. He knew as we all could see he wasnt going to use it as anymore than a threat even if it cost him his life. Most if not all of the other Knights would have lit that bad boy off.

    To date, the only truly shady thing suzaku has done, was turn Lelouch into the emp… I am going to have to say this sure as hell would not have happened if the Euphy accident/incident did not happen.

    Lelouch fanboys: Lelouch is a real piece of work. I like his char and all but HELLO! HE IS A BAD GUY!!!! With totally selfish motivations. He doesnt give a rats a** about liberating japan. What he wanted was for him and his now late sister, and revenge for his mother. It seems the emp was out to “remove deception” from the world. This guy has been so blinded by these motivations and lately an emotionally unstable. As a result he has been somewhat sloppy.

    Nunally is most likely dead,along with sayako: Just re-watch it a couple of time. So i have to retrack my last comment. Nunally was sitting while ship was grounded in the ship’s bay( now its possible but pretty thin, that the bay was several miles away via an underground escape tunnel.. but thats pretty thin ) Sayako already owned the personnel on board. Meaning as the light envelops the ship it was prob not off the ground. Sayako looks at both sides of the ship illuding to the fact the light was all around them. a.k.a. OWNED

  • August 13, 2008 at 1:14 pmSilentveil

    Kallesin@

    Really simply, the next episode they say they are dead. I know the FREYA, left no bodies behind, but really …the fact that everything was destroyed at the sub-atomic level would do that. I feel that it’s going to be harder to provide them with escape, as many others have mention they were caught in the blast, then it is to say that they are simply dead at this point.

    Though, I guess being positive in a show that doesn’t normally give room for those hopeful miracles is a bit delusional. I mean other than Orange & C.C, we don’t have any characters that was supposingly killed that keeps coming back over and over again. So, I don’t really see it happening.

    Lithonite@

    Okay, Lelouche’s character isn’t a bad guy either. He fits more of the Anti-hero perspective. He isn’t a bad guy by motives, but his actions aren’t the purest. Yet, they do get the most results, and he tries like Suzaku not to involve civilians in thier fight. THough, because, he is the anti-hero he isn’t above going through them to get what he wants.

    His character isn’t bad ….in fact to some degrees it’s more realistic. THere are few people in the world whom fight for others, and lots more that fight for themselves. This is Lelouche, and though I don’t agree with his methods …he is a good character and perfect rival for Suzaku. The only thing I don’t like about the guy …is the fact he is the ultimate God-mod.

    He has a immortal to protect him.
    A Geass that allows him to change people’s will.
    A army that is blindly loyal, and for some strange reason with no one more intelligent than a High School student.
    A insane Knightmare inventor
    A boardcaster whom can hack into any network.
    People that magically decides to back him and give him knightmares in exchange for …nothing ..no promises of alliances are anything.

    [[Yup, these are reasons why I can't really become anywhere near a Lelouche fan ...too way out there for me]]

  • August 13, 2008 at 1:37 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    But what does it matter if the characters say that Nunnally and company are dead? What does that change? They all think that they’re dead now. As we’ve both stated, there are no bodies and they’re won’t be if they died. As such, it is impossible to confirm their deaths within the show. It could very well be that they’re dead and that they never show up again, but that’s as close as you’re going to get to proving their death within the show. For absolute proof, it requires that the Sunrise staff officially say that they’re dead – which they haven’t done. They have, instead, left us in suspense with MIA labels for everyone caught in the blast. It is totally plausible – and even potentially likely – that’ they’re all dead, but there’s no way to know that within the context of the show.

    While Code Geass may not be generally positive and lots of nasty stuff happens, the writers love to pull twists on us. Things happen all the time that we didn’t expect. So, from that point of view, it makes perfect sense that they’d actually have Nunnally and Sayoko be alive. We won’t know until either they show up and are alive or Sunrise declares them officially dead.

    I would like to point out, however, that Nunnally’s craft was not obviously caught in the blast. They were obviously very close (we saw the pink light shining quite brightly on them after all), but we don’t know where the escape craft was at the time. The last time that we saw it, it was in the hanger pointing out into the city. Given that Rolo was still not in his knightmare at that point, they had plenty of time to take off. We didn’t see it, so we don’t know one way or the other, but it’s quite possible that they took off.

    We really can’t know at this point whether Nunnally survived or not and won’t know until either we find out she’s alive or Sunrise tells us she’s dead. They did a good job of making it look like she died while not only explicitly showing that she was dead but leaving her the opportunity to have escaped. I totally acknowledge that Nunnally could very well be dead, but I definitely disagree with anyone who thinks that there’s no way for her to have survived. Given the situation, I think that it would have been quite easy for Sunrise to have had her flying away from the blast, barely avoiding it – just like Lelouch did.

  • August 13, 2008 at 1:37 pmshadowblack

    @Silentveil
    “He has a immortal to protect him.” – Not any more, sadly.

    “People that magically decides to back him and give him knightmares in exchange for …nothing ..no promises of alliances are anything.” – Wrong. India wanted to be free from the Chinese Federation, and that’s why the Black Knights received all those knightmares. Just because the deal was not made on-screen does not mean there was no deal

    “A boardcaster whom can hack into any network.” – As demonstrated in ep 16 by the Emperor that is not true.

    “A army that is blindly loyal, and for some strange reason with no one more intelligent than a High School student.
    A insane Knightmare inventor”
    Judging by the preview of ep 19 (as well as the spoilers) Lelouch is about to lose both of these. Also, not everyone is blindly loyal, but they follow him because he can bring the results they need.

    “A Geass that allows him to change people’s will.” – Which he accepted only because he had no other way to survive, and that power keeps bringing him more and more pain.

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:11 pmSilentveil

    Kallesin@

    Okay, you are right on that part mostly. Without bodies, they simply just vanish though I am sure there is a way to confirm death. 10 Million people, should be MIA as well, instead of being counted as dead.

    Ummm…no, she was caught. If you look at the scenes, only those caught in the blast end up with any kind of pinkish light around them. Even though lelouche was flying towards it …or kind of not trying to move away from it. You don’t see the pinkish look in his cockpit, so they were there.

    Rolo left before the rest of the group to try and find a safe path for the shuttle to escape. Remember, they didn’t want to take off, because of the Black Knights being there first …though with Sayoko’s introduction it probably changed to that of Britiannia force. They were trapped in the building, and with Sayoko’s interferences …the shuttle was delay a bit more.

    Shadowblack@

    “He has a immortal to protect him.” – Not any more, sadly.

    [Actually, I am not totally sure about that one. I think the mark on the previews was on C.C's hand, but that's just me.]

    “People that magically decides to back him and give him knightmares in exchange for …nothing ..no promises of alliances are anything.” – Wrong. India wanted to be free from the Chinese Federation, and that’s why the Black Knights received all those knightmares. Just because the deal was not made on-screen does not mean there was no deal

    [So, they backed a small resistances group, that wasn't even interested in thier internal struggles even after getting the help, and had recently been smushed]]

    “A boardcaster whom can hack into any network.” – As demonstrated in ep 16 by the Emperor that is not true.

    [[No, he already had the hack working, but got hack back and couldn't regain control. Still, an impressive thing considering he wasn't in any control towers are anything, and even in China was able to pull this off from the ship.]]

    “A army that is blindly loyal, and for some strange reason with no one more intelligent than a High School student.
    A insane Knightmare inventor”
    Judging by the preview of ep 19 (as well as the spoilers) Lelouch is about to lose both of these. Also, not everyone is blindly loyal, but they follow him because he can bring the results they need.

    [[Actually, it takes quite a bit of time, even thier imprisonment wasn't enough ...to make them start doubting him. They had to be ordered to kill women and children, which they did, in order for them to start on the road of betrayal. That is blind loyality, that has to take quite a beating before it finally snaps.]]

    “A Geass that allows him to change people’s will.” – Which he accepted only because he had no other way to survive, and that power keeps bringing him more and more pain.

    [[I didn't question how he got it, but he does have it, which is a huge power mod]]

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:31 pmJordiBlau

    I don’t get all the discussions about good or bad.. there is no real good or bad in war. Both sides believe that they’re right, which is accompanied by certain ideals. This creates a giant grey area in which the line between right and wrong is very thin.

    To me code geass is more about order vs. chaos, in which lelouch obviously represents chaos. I’m not so much interested in these good or bad discussions. I’m actually more interested in how far the writers take connection with norse mythology. There are many connections with norse mythology, like the emperor talking to clovis, gods that can actually be killed, and some other stuff.

    A bomb called Freya, which creates fields that are called Folkvangr and next sessrumnir (a hall where fallen warriors will be entertained untill ragnarok happens, might explain the conversation with clovis). Then there’s the Ygdrassil drives in the knightmare frame’s made out of sakuradite. In the norse mythology ygdrassil connects two different worlds. Well code geass has it’s shrines that can connect to the world of c, in which sakuradite might or might not be involved as some sort of superconducter to make it happen. (oh yeah my guess is that sakuradite also ignites ragnarok in some way, just a hunch)

    To me there are just to many connections with Norse mythology to be ignored. Allthough the writers certainly changed it to make there own story, i believe it might reveal how ragnarok is going to play out. I just can’t put al the pieces together yet. Anyone out there who thinks he or she knows what ragnarok is going to be??

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:32 pmshadowblack

    Actually, for some, like Chiba, Zero’s betrayal and their consecutive imprisonment WAS enough – check the start of ep 5. However, in the end they still chose to follow him, because, as Ougi and Toudou pointed out, he can bring results. Now that the Black Knights are more powerful than ever and also closer than ever to liberating Japan things are different. But the doubts are not something that started now.

    “So, they backed a small resistances group, that wasn’t even interested in thier internal struggles even after getting the help, and had recently been smushed” – Rakshata is from India, so that no doubt influenced their decision, plus perhaps a few other things. In any case India supported the Black Knights expecting to gain something from it (and I’d say they did).

    Oh, and one thing I forgot last time:
    “A insane Knightmare inventor” – It wouldn’t be very fair if only Britannia had a crazy Knightmare inventor (Loyd), now would it?

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:51 pmNigelDamas

    I kinda felt a little bad for Guildford, dying while thinking that he was protecting Cornelia when he actually wasn’t. No, I don’t think that Nunally’s dead, ten bucks says that she and Marianne and the writers whip something out the wazoo and kick us all in the head with some sort of big plot twist that we know is coming…

    Can’t wait to see what happens next episode with a crazy Lelouch + dishrag scene.

    On another note, anyone else get irritated while watching this episode? Every time Nina’s face came up and she started shrieking in the shrilly voice of hers for Suzaku to do this, do that, kill zero!! …got annoying after a little while.

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:52 pmSilentveil

    Jordiblac@

    I wish I could tell you, but from all I know about Ragnarok …it’s a end of the world type of thing.

    Shadowblack@

    That wasn’t really doubting but more like being really pissed at thier being abandonament. Kind of like the ship thing, where they thought that maybe Zero blew up the Japanese boat, but didn’t decide to pursuit it. Once, Zero rescused them, the doubt kind of just went away.

    That is blind faith, because, I sure as hell would have wanted to know what Zero was doing during all that time.

    [[That still didn't make any sense. Though the results came out well, why back someone that couldn't really help themselves? This is the bases behind why Japan is so important, because, it's hard to get Britianna conquered areas to take the risk of uprising if a Japanese started resistances group can't even free thier own country. ]]

    True, but it would have been nice if she actually had a personality. For the most part, she really only shows up when you are comparing Lloyd’s knightmare with hers. She isn’t seem much other than that, but, I guess, they had to explain where Lelouche got all of his neat toys, huh!

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:54 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    I think that we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on the Nunnally bit at this point. I don’t believe that the way they showed it was certain death for Nunnally and those with her. In all other cases, we see the person in question dissolve when hit with the actual energy from the bomb, so the pink light must precede it because Nunnally and company didn’t dissolve when the light shone on them. As such, I don’t think that they actually showed her death. They may very well have shown her right before her death, but they didn’t show her death. That being the case, they might have been on their way away from the site rather than just sitting there, waiting to take off.

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:56 pmSilentveil

    You know I just thought about something? How was Orange even able to operate in the city? Wasn’t that disrupter things on, and didn’t that cause him problems last time? So, how was he even able to be in the battle with those things on then? Are there people working on him in the Black Knights …if so …ewwwwwwww!

  • August 13, 2008 at 5:59 pmSilentveil

    Kalessin@

    If so, then why is Sayoko looking around so wildly and the lady whom is always with Nunnelly panicking? In fact, the only calm person was Nunnelly, and that might just be because she couldn’t see it coming. Though then again, maybe you are right. Though,I don’t think they would have been so panic if they were getting out of there anyway. That is just my thought on it, but I have to agree …we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

  • August 13, 2008 at 6:03 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    Aside from Nunnally, however, I have to point out that initially it was not India that was supporting the OotBK and giving them knightmares. It was the Kyoto group. They may very well have gotten help from India (Rakshata invented the Guren after all and she’s Indian), but Kyoto was a financially powerful group who could have paid for those knightmares. The Kyoto Group was supporting various resistance groups. The OotBK was only one of them. And given that the OotBK had a budget (though how knows where Zero got the money – maybe he Geassed people for it), they might have actually paid for some of those knightmares (though they did say that the Guren was a gift).

    It was in only in R2 when the OotBK had already shown themselves to be powerful and had had Rakshata’s direct support that they got help from the Indian government. It’s Rakshata that created the various knightmares that they use in R2 along with the Guren (they never say whether she was behind the Burais in R1, but she probably was) so as long as she has financial support, then the OotBK will have knightmares. And on top of that, in R2, India does have a political reason to help the OotBK because it’s the OotBK that stood a chance to free them from China and did in fact end up doing so.

    And as for the OotBK being blindly loyal, they complained about Zero multiple times in R1 and R2, but they’ve continued to follow him because he gets results. Diethard pretty much even says that outright in episode 19 of R1. The entire reason that the OotBK has followed Zero is because he brings results. It’s taken nasty stuff – such as him ordering the slaughter of a group of researchers that includes women and children – for the OotBK to come to the point that they would actually consider really betraying Zero. A number of them might have wanted to do so before now, but they needed Zero too much to risk it. Toudoh pretty much said as much in episode 17 or R2.

    Oh, and the comment about Lelouch being only as intelligent as a high school student is a bit off. Granted, he is a high school student, but I think that he’s shown quite a few times over that he’s extremely intelligent – even if he’s not necessarily always wise in how he uses that intelligence. It’s that intelligence (along with his Geass) that has allowed him to be so successful and thus get the OotBK to follow him.

    As for Diethard magically hacking networks, he did work for one of the major networks and was fairly highly placed within that organization it seems. This gave him the opportunity to set stuff up – like his Omega line. It’s the emperor hijacking everything in episode 16 that seems odd if anything. Maybe he has an Alpha line or something….

    As for C.C.’s mortality, as I understand it, the official site says that she’s mortal now (though being unable to read Japanese, I can’t confirm that myself). Certainly, it looks like her condition matches that of V.V. when he became mortal. They both lost their memories (though it was more obvious with C.C.). And as for the Geass-tattooed hand, it not only matches the emperor’s clothes, but that’s exactly where his Geass tattoo before. C.C.’s sleeves (when she has any) don’t look anything like that and IIRC, you can see the character’s white pants and C.C. hasn’t worn pants anytime recently that I recall. I see no reason to think that that hand was anyone’s other than the emperors and everything I’ve seen and heard indicates that C.C. is indeed mortal now.

  • August 13, 2008 at 6:15 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    Well, even if you were flying away, wouldn’t you be freaking out that a weird pink light that seems to be destroying things rushing at your aircraft? Romeyer knew what it was, but the others didn’t (and knowing only meant that she had even more reason to freak out). Nunnally, not seeing the pink light would, of course, not have the same reason to panic. Odds are that even if they were flying away and even if they did escape, they barely did so, so I think that they had plenty of reason to freak out even if they did survive.

    In addition, I read a suggestion elsewhere that Romeyer was in a different craft from Sayoko and Nunnally (which if true would mean that whatever we saw with regards to Romeyer has no bearing on Nunnally and Sayoko). Basically, the person pointed out that when we first saw the escape craft, there was a second one next to it and I guess that we never actually saw Romeyer in the craft with Nunnally – only that she was in a craft Personally, I don’t see much point for Romeyer being in a separate craft and without rewatching the episode, I can’t confirm whether or not that’s even possible. I’d expect her to be with Nunnally. But if she were in a separate craft, then even if we’d actually seen her die (which we didn’t), then it could still mean that Nunnally’s alive. Though, honestly, my reaction is that the separate craft bit is unnecessary and probably a case of reading too much into things, but who knows.

    All I really know is

    1. The last time we actually saw Nunnally’s craft from the outside, it was in the hangar in a position where it could take off and that given that Rolo was not yet even in his knightmare at that point, there would have been plenty of time for the craft to take off.

    2. We saw the pink light from FLEIJA shining on the occupants of Nunnally’s craft, implying that they were about to be consumed by FLEIJA.

    Whether they survived or not, we’ll just have to wait and see and I don’t really want to look for theories any crazier than Nunnally’s craft having actually been in flight on its way out when FLEIJA hit. If she survived, that’s the simplest explanation. If she didn’t, then she didn’t. We’ll just have to wait and see I guess.

  • August 13, 2008 at 6:34 pmSilentveil

    Kalessin@

    I didn’t say lelouche is as intelligent as a high school student …I said the black knights members are less intelligent than a high school student, which is what Lelouche is. The fact that they are so dependent on him despite his results make you shake your head. They should be able to do something without always having to wait on Zero, but, even when they were battling in the city …they came to a pause waiting on Lelouche yet again. I want to scream.

    Blind loyality, they do things without questioning them, but, if they worry about them after the fact …it doesn’t really changed what they had done, right? You know, he say let’s attack this base, and they are like okay. There is no, what is our objective, why are we attacking this base, but, they attack it and then start questioning as they are killing the people. I mean another good example the whole looking for …that guy can’t think of his name with the mind Geass in the first season. The entire black knights network are looking for this guy, and why, because Zero asked them to and they trust that Zero will never have them doing anything without a good reason.

    It makes me want to pull my hair out.

    The attempt to kill Suzaku thing, though Kallen had been with Suzaku the entire time, and he hadn’t abused her [except for the threat of refrain one time] there is no doubt in her mind at all. I mean, I can see attack first and then questioning later, but the complete 360 change in Lelouche’s attitude towards Suzaku should have made her pause a moment. Yet, Kallen didn’t do that. She just blindly goes along with killing him despite knowing whom he is, and even being shown that the two were friends.

    The shout of kill him …kill Suzaku, un-nerved me, and I was just watching it. It was about as frantic and as crazy as Nina’s shouts to shout off Freya.

    Blind loyality.

    Diethard already having a network set up before hand is even worst. Are you trying to tell me he had one in place just in case? The man chimed into the chinese television station without even seeming to have an inkling of trouble, and he does this in a ship. So, sorry, if I am not really behind the magical network. The fact that the Emporeor did it back is kind of reasonable, the man had an army of Diethard on his team and the network was originally his.

  • August 13, 2008 at 6:51 pmSilentveil

    Kalessin@

    Actually yes, if I didn’t think I was going to get away from it. If not, I would purely be concentrating on trying to get out of there. In other words, I would be yelling at the pilot.

    1. They were waiting on Rolo to give the all clear to take off, and we know he wasn’t going to do anything to help, Nunnelly survive. Romeyer knew about it, but, she only recognized it after it was shot off, and she didn’t reveal a whole lot in the scene she was in. In fact, it’s a question if they believed her or not considering that they don’t seem to try and take off even then.

    2. That same pinkish light hit everyone that was sucked up by the Freya, that was kind of thier way of letting people know whom was killed.

    I thought there was only one ship, but that is neither here nor there. There wasn’t anyone outside of the Freya range consumed by pink like this. Pay attention to Lelouche’s situation, and he was as close as you can get and see how pink it is around him. It completely consumed Guliford’s knightmare by touch, and pay attention to what it does to the buildings.

    That pink light whatever it touches …dies.

    [[just the part where Suzaku fires and what happens after that]]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDy7sDOHDwQ

  • August 13, 2008 at 8:31 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    Zero designed the OotBK organization so that everything revolves around him. He‘s the one that comes up with all the crazy plans. He‘s the one that makes things happen. As such, everyone is basically doing whatever he says. “Zero’s successful, so obviously Zero knows what he’s doing and you should do what he says” is more or less the way the OotBK operates. As such, they basically always do what he says. They sometimes question him, but things usually turn out quite well, so they continue to do what he says. Besides, the OotBK is basically functioning as a military organization (increasingly so really) and in such organizations, you generally follow orders without questioning them unless they’re obviously wacked out.

    As for Kallen being told to kill Suzaku and here immediate compliance, I’m not sure how much she knows about the relationship between Lelouch and Suzaku, but she’s shown a willingness to try and do him in on the battlefield before and it’s not like his recent actions have endeared him to her. They’ve already shown in the past that while they may at least try and get along off the battlefield, once on it, they fight each other all out.

    And in this case, Suzaku was in the way and the man that she has a major crush on and who is always coming up with the fantastic plans to save Japan told her to do him in, so she complies. Kallen is very loyal as we’ve seen time and time again, but I don’t think that she’s blindly loyal. She’s definitely doubted Zero/Lelouch in the past (particularly once she found out that they were one and the same), but she knows fullwell that Zero is highly capable and if he thinks that taking out Suzaku is necessary to save Japan, then she’ll do it. The fact that she’s not getting along with Suzaku at the moment makes that decision even more likely. Besides, she follows Zero’s orders like everyone else in the OotBK. Zero is the commander and he’s a very good one, so you do what he says.

    Now, I think that we’ve seen in the past (and will continue to see) that having the OotBK rely so much on Zero wasn’t necessarily a good idea. It’s allowed him to do some great stuff because they listen to him and do what he tells them pretty much regardless. But without him, they tend to be rather lost. Really, Zero should have found a way to organize the OotBK so that they could function well without him and yet he could rely on them to do what he wanted without question when he needed them to. How to do that, I don’t know, but the way the OotBK is currently organized, it relies too much on Zero.

    I really don’t know how they’re going to get very far without Zero. With Xingke and Toudoh together, they might be able to pull it off, but I don’t know. Neither of them has quite the drive that Zero does and neither of them has his flair (though whether they really need that, I don’t know). Xingke is as capable a strategist as Zero and Toudoh is quite good (though not as good), but neither of them is Zero. If the OotBK do indeed betray Zero, then they’re really going to have to alter how they function.

  • August 13, 2008 at 10:07 pmKalessin

    I’m not sure how many folks here care, but apparently Cartoon Network will be showing the dub for R2 immediately after the finish showing R1 (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-08-13/code-geass-r2-anime-sequel-to-run-on-adult-swim-in-u.s ). What I find particularly interesting about that is that it will show immediately after R1 finishes. Normally, Cartoon Network likes to put gaps between seasons.

  • August 13, 2008 at 10:09 pmKalessin

    I managed to put the opening paren in the URL, so here’s a clickable link:

    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-08-13/code-geass-r2-anime-sequel-to-run-on-adult-swim-in-u.s

  • August 13, 2008 at 11:11 pmgeorge from soviet union

    @Silentveil: about the MIA thing, you cannot declare a person dead unless you find a lifeless body..it will take years to find a missing person….

    ….in this situation, Nina’s bomb creates an implosion, obliterating all matter within its area of effect….i don’t know if the bomb can destroy living things or can disintergrate living things into nothing….I mean you saw the government building disintergrated but do you see a human being disintergrated in the blast? We only see them engulfed in the pink light…

    …the writers placed in the chart that the people caught in the blast are missing and they didn’t declared yet that they are dead….they are trying to make look like they are killed but who knows what Ichiro Okouchi had in his sleeve…

    Curiously, I found this http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/660/unlimitedfleaworksvu0.jpg

    @Kalessin: I’m thinking that Cartoon Network want to make sure that there will be no cliffhanger between Season 1 and Season 2….Epi 25 of R1 ended with a cliffhanger and i bet those who first watch Code Geass don’t want a cliffhanger…

  • August 14, 2008 at 12:23 amkrista

    this is so not cool..this is probably the only episode (that i know of) that has so many key(not necessarily main)–or at least, well-developed–charcters that got killed off in one go…while there’s hope that certain characters may still be alive, the assumption that they are is killing the anime characters and us

  • August 14, 2008 at 5:03 amSWTS

    Guren’s new name is “Guren Seiten Eight Elements”(!?)

  • August 14, 2008 at 9:31 amfobe

    I think it’s strange how fleija works. it practicly destroys matter, but that’s impossible (basic law of nature). However matter can be transferred into energy (e=m2). At Hirosima less then 2 grams of matter were transferred into the energy of the explosion. with fleija more than just 2 grams of matter(more like tons and tons of matter) have dissappered but where did it/all the energy go? (energy cannot disappear, it can be transformed in to other forms of energy or matter but cannot disappear)

  • August 14, 2008 at 2:04 pmKalessin

    As I understand it, FLEIJA is basically a nuke with sakuradite added into the mix. How that results in some kind of matter-dissolving bubble instead of a really big explosion, I have no clue, but it’s not as if sakuradite is real, so all the physics involved with it have to be made up.

    Dissolving all the matter so that none of the atoms are bonded to one another anymore would have a similar effect to what we saw, but even that wouldn’t really be the same. A lot of the matter would become gas and would result in an explosion of air outward from what the field dissolved. The rest, however, would be trying like crazy to bond again because a lot of atoms don’t really want to be by themselves. A number of those would result in gaseous molecules – which would just add to the aforementioned explosion of air – but a lot of it would probably just recombine into various metals and the like, leaving a fair amount of dust and clumps of stuff behind. Granted, none of it would be what was there before, but it wouldn’t be nothing. With FREIJA, we didn’t seem to get any explosion of air and we certainly didn’t get anything left behind.

    If FREIJA turned all the atoms within the field into energy, then they wouldn’t be there anymore, but then you’d have gotten an enormous explosion in addition to the implosion of air trying to fill the vacuum. After all, the reason that a nuke makes such a big boom is basically because it’s turning matter into energy. Basically, E=MC^2 means that the energy you get is the amount of matter times the speed of light squared. And, as we all know, the speed of light is a very big number, so you get a lot of energy from a little bit of matter. Turning the amount of matter that FREIJA dissolved into energy would make a lot of energy. Energy can’t just disappear any more than matter can. It has to go somewhere.

    If FREIJA teleported everthing within the field to elsewhere (be it another dimension or whatever) as some have suggested, then either you’d get a vacuum where everything used to be, resulting in a lot of air rushing in (which didn’t happen), or – if it were replaced with air from the other place – you’d probably still get some kind of displacement of air because you changed what was in that space (though I suppose that it’s conceivable that if the air pressure was the same, it could manage to simply swap the air and the objects that had been in the space without any displacement of air, but that seems unlikely). And, of course, if FREIJA teleports anything, it’s certainly not by Nina’s design. We all know that she’s looking to destroy stuff (Zero in particular), not just move it.

    So, what it looks like FREIJA did is outright destroy almost all the matter within its field and leave behind exactly the right amount of air at exactly the right pressure that that air took up the space that all that matter had been taking up and didn’t end up being displaced at all. And such a thing is impossible. As fobe pointed out, you can’t destroy energy or matter – only convert them. So, really, FREIJA appears to be an impossibility. It’s arguably cool – being a weapon that just totally destroys things and leaves no mess – but it’s impossible. But then again, since when does anime stick to what’s possible? Many aspects of Code Geass are perhaps more realistic than most, but even ignoring the likes of Geass and sakuradite, we can easily point out a number of things that have happened previously which were impossible (like Suzaku dodging bullets and running on walls).

  • August 14, 2008 at 2:42 pmshadowblack

    @Kalessin
    Actually, there WAS air rushing in (see 21:05 to 21:10), so I’d say it was option number 3 on your list. So the odds of Sayako and Nunnaly being alive just increased a little bit. Of course, that is only if the world of Code Geass follows the same logic as our world.

  • August 14, 2008 at 2:54 pmSilentveil

    George from soviet union@

    After a certain amount of time, a person is declared dead if they are missiong. If they show up again that is nice, but, in the real word you can only be missing for a certain amount of time before that MIA because recognized as death, and only your body is MIA. In the cause of Freya, I am not so sure what the case would be. If you are vaporized, I don’t think you will remain as MIA, but, I will say it again …I believe the next episode will confirm deaths.

    Right now, neither sides really knows whom was killed and whom was lost to Freya, which, might be why there is a lot of MIA posted. I mean even though Guilford was swallowed up right in front of Lelouche …I don’t think even he will be confirm as dead until the next episode.

    Why? I guess because he had been caught up in the fringe of it, and it hadn’t been announced to anyone about his death. Really, only Lelouche knows about it, and he was too frantic about Nunnelly. So, the next episode should put to rest our entire commotion over whether they are dead or not, and if Freya has some sort of side effect.

    If it doesn’t then Sunrise is just plan evil.

  • August 14, 2008 at 3:45 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    How will their deaths be confirmed? Even if within the show, they are announced as dead by the Brittanian government or by the OotBK or by Zero or whoever, that doesn’t really mean anything. All it means is that that whoever is declaring them dead believes that they were dissolved by FREIJA. Without bodies, you can’t really confirm anything.

    The only thing that I can think of that they could do would be if the showed us flashbacks that were even more explicit (as in you actually see the people dissolve), and while that would show us it wouldn’t actually tell anyone within the show anything more. And if they really wanted to be that clear about it, they would have done it in episode 18. The only reason that I see to be unclear about it is if people actually survived or if they don’t want to show someone being dissolved (presumably because it would be too explicit). So, either some of the people caught in the field actually survived (in which case, we might find out next episode, but I’m betting that they wouldn’t reveal it that quickly) or they all actually died and they just didn’t want to be more explicit in what they showed (in which case, they’re not going to be more explicit in any flashback and it they won’t be confirming anything by showing flashbacks).

    So, if the Nunnally and company are dead they can’t confirm it next episode. Sunrise themselves would have to tell us. Without a body, confirmation is impossible. They can be declared dead, but all that means is that they’re believed to be dead, not that they actually are. If we are to find out whether Nunnally and company survived there are only really 3 ways:

    1. They survived. We seem them again later.
    2. They died. We never see them again in the show. While they could technically still be alive in such a case, it’s not like the writers are going to have them survive and never bring them back.
    3. They died. Sunrise announces that they are officially dead.

    I don’t understand how you can think that they’re going to confirm their deaths in the next episode. I agree that they could very well be dead and that everyone in the show will probably say that they’re dead in the next episode, but I don’t see how they’re going to be able to actually confirm it within the show.

  • August 14, 2008 at 5:30 pmSilentveil

    Kalessin@

    Geesh, well …that is your opinion afterall. I think they did enough to show they they killed off the characters, and you are one of those types that got to see everything to believe it. For the most part, it’s enough if everyone in the show confirm them dead, and they don’t show up again.

    Though, I guess ….you can hang onto your idea that they are alive until you get a more official statement. The fact that the ray was pretty much tearing up buildings and hit them is enough for me.

    Your same reasoning goes for why they are dead as much as why they are not. I really don’t see why you hold onto that belief so strong.

    1. Okay, if they show up back again then you are right, they are not dead.
    2. Right now, we know Freya to be WMD. Pretty much it was tearing apart buildings, and since no one has discovered it’s teleporation capabilities it’s not that big of a sketch to say that anyone caught in it is dead. Though, the idea that you need an up close and person view of thier death is a little shocking. I guess, they should have made them screaming at the end, and everyone would be happy knowing that they died.

    3.I am alittle sadden that the entire series could end with all the characters thinking they are dead, and only an official statement from Sunrise would make you believe that situation.

    Easy way to confirm thier deaths, if the emporeor starts talking to Nunnelly like he did Clovis at the beginning. That kind of freaked me out a bit, but, I guess that would confirm death on the show.

  • August 14, 2008 at 7:08 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    I can totally see how you would think that what we saw was enough to think them dead. But without actually seeing the characters or the vehicles they were in dissolved, all we saw is that they were close to being caught in the field. Being close enough to have that pink light shine on them makes it very likely that they’re dead, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they are. I wouldn’t have been at all surprised if Sunrise had declared them dead at that point. It’s totally believable that they were caught in the field and died.

    However, since it’s possible that they survived that blast (the one’s in Nunnally’s craft anyway) and Sunrise has chosen to declare them MIA rather than dead, I seriously doubt that they’re all dead. Why declare them MIA if they’re dead? They might as well have just declared them dead if that were the case. The only reason that I can think of that they’d declare them MIA other than having at least some of them actually be alive is if they wanted to put us in suspense. And that only puts those who look at their site in suspense.

    I mean, looking at the episode, there’s plenty there to think that they’re dead. If you watched the episode but didn’t look at the official site, then the only reason to think that Nunnally and company were alive is if you noticed that it was possible for her to have survived given what was shown and you didn’t want to believe that she was dead.

    You sure think that they’re dead after seeing the episode. So, I think that if they meant us to understand that they were dead after that scene (as in they were really dead and that was meant to be their death scene without further explanation from Sunrise), then they wouldn’t have put MIA on the site. There’s no point. I’m pretty sure that after episode 13, they listed Shirley as dead without waiting for the next episode to confirm it (though I could be wrong – it’s not like you can go back and check what it used to say). And since they can’t confirm it within the show, there’s really no point in waiting to confirm it outside the show if they are in fact dead.

    So, given the fact that Nunnally and company could have survived (however unlikely it may seem) and the fact that Sunrise is declaring them to be MIA rather then dead seems to me to be a strong indicator that they did in fact survive.

  • August 14, 2008 at 7:24 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    Oh, and as for the emperor talking to Nunnally, I personally am not convinced that he actually ever talked to Clovis. He might have done so, but I think that it’s so crazy to have characters talking to dead people, that I really question it. It’s just as likely – if not more so – that he was just talking like he had been talking to Clovis. It’s not really all that uncommon for people to act like their dead friend can hear them and talk to them after they’re dead (a common example would probably be the living person asking why the dead one had to go and die on them).

    Besides, I think that even in the case where the emperor could talk to dead people, my reasoning with regards to marking them as MIA still holds. If that blast was really meant to kill them, why not just say that it did?

  • August 14, 2008 at 7:56 pmSilentveil

    Kalessin@

    Can you read Japanese? After looking at your post, I broke down to look at the one on the site, and to be quite frank ….I don’t have a clue what is said. If you say it is MIA, I will have to accept that, but, still …I call them as dead. The MIA might be more refering to the knowledge of the characters as oppose to fan knowledge or at this point.

    There is a lot more written there, and I don’t know what is said at all. Thus, I can’t make any declarations either way. I will wait for confirmation in the next episode, and wait to see what happens after that.

    Personally, I believe that Nunnelly is dead. Why? For one thing, everytime one of the none main characters appear in a shot in the opening by themselves they end up dead. Eurphy was the first one, and Shirley was second, and now …Nunnelly. I take it as more than just an concident at this point, and even Sayoko appeared by herself in the role call. In fact, she has always appeared beside Nunnelly before that, so I do think she is dead.

    The whole being by yourself thing almost always end up with you being killed.

    Suzaku’s being missing from the opening altogether has me on pins and needles about him. I mean, he shows up what …one or two times, and that is it. He is either going to disappear at this point or die, and I hope he doesn’t end up dead.

  • August 14, 2008 at 9:10 pmUngas

    orange’s knightmare has an anti gefjun disturber(just like knightmare gen 6 and onward, just like all OtBK knightmares) that’s why he aint affected – he’ll be pissing and puking blood if he aint got one and rakshata will be definitely be an incompetent for making a knightmare that will be affected by something that she made…

  • August 15, 2008 at 2:20 amRemmell

    You know. I noticed something funny about this episode. We have the Guren SEITEN Hachi. It now looks like something out of a “Castlevania” game. This is not a complaint. It’s cool! I just see some irony in this new Dracula looking Guren being the one who utterly wipes out Luciano, the Britannian Vampire.

    I’ve been pondering some of the spoilers that are involving Kallen and some future events.
    Show Spoiler ▼

    My thoughts on Kallen and Lelouch:
    These are two postings I did, using screen shots to kind of get my point across for this pairing. I have NO IDEA if this is fact. Just my point of view.
    http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1798822&postcount=1881
    http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1799627&postcount=1945
    A couple of times this season they have teased us at near kissed between the two. We also know that Kallen has never had her first kiss. It would be disappointing if teh series ends without and follow through. Not to mention that the majority of the time Kallen spent in jail was either talking about Lelouch or thinking about him. That honestly really surprised me. I really thought her time in jail would be spent having Nunnally and Suzaku trying to tempt her to join their side. Through either kind means or blackmail, involving her mother. What would be the point of all these scenes, of her better understanding of Lelouch, if they didn’t effect events in the future?

  • August 15, 2008 at 4:52 amKalessin

    @Silentveil
    I can’t read Japanese. Someone else posted here saying that it said MIA. However, while I can’t read Japanese, I can tell that it doesn’t say that their dead. If you look at the folks that we know to be dead (Euphemia, Clovis, etc.), the symbols that they’re marked with are completely different from the ones that were caught in the blast.

    And as for the opening thing, well it’s certainly conceivable that being alone in the opening could mean death, but I think that it’s more likely they’re being put alone because they’re important. Now, having a major death could make them qualify as important, but they can be important without dying. Really, I can see why you would read what you’re reading from the opening, but I generally think that it’s quite iffy to read much from the opening. Besides, depending on what you mean by “being alone” in the opening, others like Schneizel, Lelouch, and the emperor are alone in the opening.

  • August 15, 2008 at 5:38 amKalessin

    @Remmell
    Well, as for the second part of your post, you’ve done a decent job of collecting a number of the main points where the Lelouch X Kallen relationship is developed. There’s definitely something going on there. Of course, there are also Lelouch X C.C. moments, so I definitely wouldn’t say that Lelouch X Kallen is where things are going in the long run (though C.C. would probably have to get her memory back for her to really be with Lelouch). But they’re definitely going to do something with their relationship. I’d be very surprised if all those scenes (especially the fact that Kallen kept talking to Nunnally about Lelouch) ended up leading nowhere. The writers in Code Geass don’t waste much. Almost everything has an effect on other stuff. The comedy is about the only thing that might avoid that and yet they still managed to cram some story-altering effects with the comedy at least some of the time. So, the fact that Lelouch X Kallen has been developing is bound to be important to the plot, but in what manner is hard to say at this point.

    Show Spoiler ▼

  • August 15, 2008 at 8:54 amSilentveil

    Kalessin@

    Then that means, you have no clue what that says either. It could easily say …vaporized for all we know, and everyone is going crazy trying to figure out if they are dead or not. It would be funny to find out later that Sunrise had already made thier death official, but it was misread. Though, I guess, I can’t talk about that situation too much, you are like me in that regards …as I stated earlier I would just have to take your word on it. You are taking someone else’s word, well, anyway let’s wait and see.

    The opening so far has had a lot of different spoilers in it …if you pay close attention.

    I have noticed that quite a bit, and I am not the only one to speculate using the opening. There have been afterall …quite a bit of convensation about the fact that Kallen’s knightmare appears after Suzaku’s in the opening. I agree getting it from the opening can be considered iffy, but I don’t figure it’s much more iffy then trying to take a spoiler from a site you can’t even read.

    I kind of said it before, being a character that is really minor and alone in the opening …seems to be a death threat. Sorry, but Nunnelly is kind of minor, she doesn’t really get much time in the show, and can’t really do much. So, she would be classified as a minor character, her significants can come much more from her death than her actually staying alive. Sayoko, without, a life at the academy anymore for Lelouche and Nunnelly to protect…her character through cool as a shinobi is really quite useless. I mean, how many hand to hand incidents do they have in Code Geass, and there are plenty of people in the BK that can be just as interesting in a fight.

    That’s not discounting Rollo. THere is no fight with him.

    Lelouche X Kallen is pretty much blasted out of the water at this point. Lelouche isn’t going to be thinking about love or romance until the end of the series. Though, Kallen has a better chance then C.C. at this point, that girl if she gets her memory back just wants to die anyway, so more than likely that is going to happen.

  • August 15, 2008 at 9:29 amshadowblack

    “the fact that Kallen’s knightmare appears after Suzaku’s in the opening.”

    Actually, the Guren (in its upgraded form) appears first, then appears the Lancelot (without wings), and then the Lancelot unfolds its wings and turns into its final form. So I’m not really sure what you mean when you say that it appears after Suzaku’s…

  • August 15, 2008 at 11:35 amSilentveil

    Shadowblack@

    Sorry, I mess up the order …please don’t sue me.

  • August 15, 2008 at 12:05 pmshadowblack

    Ah, good. I was just worried I missed something, so no, I’m not gonna sue you. :P

  • August 15, 2008 at 12:16 pmRemmell

    @Kalessin

    Thanks. I pride myself on finding evidence and trying to be subjective. That’s why I tried to look at the spoilers from another angle. Rather then having my bias interperate what I saw.
    The pairing with C.C. always bugged me in a way. It’s how she knew Marianne even before she had children, and was good friends with her. Just struck me as kind of creepy. C.C. is kind of like his god mother. Though that’s all awkward since she was also immortal.
    I have been hearing rumors, but so far I’ve found nothing to back them up. Seems the rumor goes that there will be some kind of sex scene, or implied scene involving Lelouch and Kallen on episode 20. I don’t take it too seriously since I can’t find anything solid to back it up.
    Ever since the previous episode people have been talking about a GinoxKallen pairing, but I seriously doubt that has much of a chance of happening. Not only have they only had two conversations in the entire series, but the first and longest one was mostly about Suzaku. There was also this article about Kallen in the recent issue of “Newtype”. Scroll down of the link to find it.
    http://koshimizu.livejournal.com/5369.html#cutid1
    The titles for this article are:
    Kouzuki Kallen: The warrior that continues believing in Zero.
    [From Terrorists To The Black Knights]
    [Trusting in Zero? or Lelouch?]
    [Live As A Japanese]
    [Meeting Nunnallly and Suzaku Again]
    [Versus Knight of Rounds Luciano]
    [Back in Battlefield!]
    The decisive battle takes place on the governor building! Britannia army is about to execute Kallen, but Sayoko shows up. Together they escape with the new Guren.

    Now it doesn’t state was to whether she still believes in Zero pre or post betrayal, and I can’t read Japanese very well myself, right now. I have been in contact with someone who can though. In this article there are many mentions of Lelouch, As you can see in the image even Luciano is talked about. It seems Gino’s name isn’t even mentioned in the entire thing. This I found surprising since he was the one who posed the “Live as a Japanese” question to her. While I can’t completely read Japanese I can read enough to know I can’t see Gino’s name in any larger scans of this article. I would just think that if Gino was going to have some role to Kallen’s future. He would at least get a mention here. That psycho Kallen killed off gets a mention and a picture.

    Show Spoiler ▼

  • August 15, 2008 at 12:39 pmmagixiii

    I have a question, why did Anya have a reaction to Lelouch.

  • August 15, 2008 at 1:17 pmshadowblack

    We don’t know yet, magixiii. That’s one of the things that remain to be explained.

  • August 15, 2008 at 6:47 pmRemmell

    @magixiii
    What I think is more interesting. Why didn’t Lelouch have a reaction to her? C.C. did?

  • August 16, 2008 at 8:32 amAdahn

    @Silentveil
    I can confirm it’s “missing”. You can check out a dictionary entry if you’d like.

  • August 17, 2008 at 4:31 amGabe

    can’t wait for this weeks

  • August 29, 2008 at 11:15 ammisshermes

    Die, Nina. DIE!!!

  • January 24, 2009 at 8:28 pmNaruto

    wow…mad comments here….keep up the hard work guys!

  • August 6, 2009 at 11:49 ambrianleung8912

    detest nina.

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