Random Curiosity

Fate/Apocrypha – 23 »« Fate/Apocrypha – 21

Fate/Apocrypha – 22

「再会と別離」 (Saikai to Betsuri)
“Reunion and Farewell”

Holy cow so many things happened in this episode.

General Impressions

Continuing on from my excerpt, I don’t think we’ve ever had so many different topics tackled in a single episode. Besides three separate fights all coming to a close and losing three servants, we even had the story literally close out this mini battle arc as Jeanne and Sieg started to speed toward Shakespeare.

Before leaping into that though, let’s break down each fight of this week’s fights. Starting with the shortest since it never actually came to an official close, I was rather disappointed (at least at the time) with Jeanne and Atalanta’s fight. Both in the sense of what the fight was about as well as the animation style that the episode decided to use for it. Don’t get me wrong, I can get behind that sloppy and crazy kind of look when there’s an intense action scene going on. But when the show has shown us that it can pump out some pretty decent fighting scenes, the least it could do for a somewhat important character’s final fight is make it look pretty. Slight animation gripes aside, let’s talk about Atalanta’s mental break for a second here.

As I said earlier, I was a little disappointed that Atalanta couldn’t get past the fact that Jeanne had “abandoned” those forsaken children in Jack’s Noble Phantasm. Not only were those children whose lives had long passed, but I think anyone with any understanding of the real world can comprehend that it’s nearly impossible to save everyone (this is like, a super important point of the original Fate series with Emiya and Shirou!). However, after Atalanta was brought down by Achilles, I had this moment of inspiration that helped me get behind Atalanta’s train of thought. As a Heroic Spirit that’s been given another chance to exist in the present, who’s to say you can’t just chuck logic out of the window in order to try and attain your goals now that you’ve been given a second chance at life? With a literal opportunity of a lifetime, it’s not too difficult to see why someone as passionate as Atalanta would get so focused on her one single goal and somewhere along the line start focusing on the finer details instead of looking at the whole picture. That said, even with this epitome dawning upon me as I watched Atalanta disappear in Achilles’ arms, I’m still not sure if I truly accept the way she behaved throughout the past few episodes. Luckily, Achilles managed to be a true hero and snapped her out of it before she let that Noble Phantasm of hers completely engulf her “soul”. So if anything, if this was supposed to be a play at irony with teammates taking themselves out, I guess it could work.

Moving on from those two fights, let’s talk about Karna for a second. As someone who has been pretty one dimensional since we first met him, I was so impressed to see him reveal his true personality right at the end. As the Hero of Charity, I was strangely happy when I realized that he was just an honorable fighter who wanted to maintain a sense of pride as this wacky Greater Holy Grail War played out. Behooved to serve his Master because of obligation, but never forgetting those who providing for him in the past, I think I was downright disappointed to see such a standup guy leave the show.

God, there’s still so much more to talk about but let’s close things out before this post gets any longer. At this point, it looks like we’ve transitioned into the next arc where it looks like all hell is about to break loose. With each side low on servants and Shirou doing who knows what inside of the Greater Holy Grail, I can’t imagine things slowing down at all until the end. If there was one question I’d like answered though, didn’t Sieg end up using all of his Command Spells during his fight with Karna? I believe he had three at most and he ended up transforming into Siegfried twice as well as empowering his final attack with one right before Astolfo leapt in. Alas, I’m sure we’ll get an answer within the next few episodes. In any case, I’ll catch you guys then. See you next week!

December 10, 2017 at 10:26 pm
  • December 10, 2017 at 10:35 pmjohngen

    Nasu just called the episode a masterpiece.

    Kameda, Naoki Yoshibe, Takashi Kojima, Akai, Hirofumi Okita, Yutaka Nakamura, and other other old-gen/new-gen animators were praising the work for episode 22.

    • December 10, 2017 at 10:49 pmNayuta

      Abosolutely blown away by Apocrypha #22. Best animated TV anime episode of the year bar none, it’s entirely on a different level. Actual industry event.

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:13 pmL002

      While I know the anime was disliked by many, due to how it didn’t faithfully follow the light novel, I can agree that this episode was a master piece. Little Sad that Achilles and Atalanta didn’t kiss before dying. Still didn’t understand why Achilles wanted to stop Atalanta, it would have been more Ideal for Ruler to be annihilated by Atalanta then Achilles can stop Atalanta; hard for the Red Faction since they lost Servants like that.

      Leave it to Apollo and Artemis to get their chance to shoot and hit Achilles; from what I can understand, while Atalanta doesn’t have any divinity, that is capable of hurting Achilles, she can “ask” two fully divine gods to shoot her targets, thus is the reason why Achilles was harmed. Anyway, I still like this episode even if, from what I heard, didn’t follow the light novel. We get to see all of Atalanta’s abilities get Super Boosted when she used her Demonic Noble Phantasm. In addition, we get to see more romance moment with Achilles and Atalanta. I am at least curious if it was feasible for Atalanta to kiss Achilles; from my view, Achilles was able to win Atalanta’s heart to some degree.

      How did this kid “teleport” everyone? He had a spell like that? Meh.

      Anyway, so it is Ruler (jeanne d’arc) vs William Shakespeare. Wow, would like to see what Shakespeare can do to jeanne, she is technically the sword enemy of Shakespeare’s homeland. But seriously, a Caster vs a Ruler that can nullify all magic?

    • December 14, 2017 at 2:18 amMegiddo

      Would Astolfo let you fuck her in the ass?

  • December 10, 2017 at 10:38 pmultimatemegax

    Official relationship chart for Fate/Apocrypha

    Sieg ↔ Astolfo “Trust and mutual dependence.”
    Sieg ← Astolfo “Willing to help him out whenever he needs” & “Romantic love ♥”
    Sieg → Jeanne “Love…?”
    Sieg ← Jeanne “Pledge to protect” & “Romantic love ♥.”
    Sieg ← Siegfried “Sacrifices itself to save the boy.”
    Sieg ↔ Shirou “Enemies.”
    Sieg ← Celenike “Jealousy, envy and hatred.”
    Sieg ← Avicebron “Wanting to use him as his Golem’s ‘core’.”
    Astolfo ← Celenike “Please pardon me.”
    Astolfo ← Celenike “Obsessive–compulsive disorder.”
    Jeanne → Red and black faction “Supervisor”.
    Spartacus → Avicebron “Captured by.”
    Atalanta → Achilles “Don’t call me ‘Big Sister’.”
    Achilles → Atalanta “Likes to call her Big Sister.”
    Achilles ↔ Chiron “Has a connection in their past.”
    Siegfried → Gordes “Obeys.”
    Gordes → Siegfried = “Distrust.”
    Mordred ↔ Kairi “Trust & mutual dependence.”
    Mordred → Semiramis “Distrust.”
    Kairi → Shirou “Distrust.”
    Shakespeare “Forever alone.”
    Shirou ↔ Semiramis “Mutual cooperation.”
    Karna → Siegfried “wanting/swearing to battle him again.”
    Avicebron → Roche “Sees him as a student.”
    Roche → Avicebron “Respect.”

  • December 10, 2017 at 10:42 pmHellKorn

    This was objectively objectively one of the best episodes from franchise in the last five years.

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:25 pmhaseo0408

      I think it´s safe to say Sieg is now a godslayer, after all Karna became a god after his death because his father the sun god Surya wanted to honor him as the great heroe he was, even more because the horrible life he endured without breaking.

      • December 11, 2017 at 12:10 amFabuzer

        Servants are far, far weaker from their Heroic Spirit selves. Servants are just copies of the original. Moreover, the Karna summoned here isn’t fully divine and isn’t a Divine Spirit.

        As awesome as this episode was, Sieg only won because somehow circumstances were in his favour. Karna didn’t need to use Vasavi Shakti and sacrifice his armor, he could have easily won by spamming Brahmastra (eye laser), he just wanted to fight with all his strength. The only reason he wasn’t annihilated was due to Akhilleus Kosmos. Moreover, how the hell could Sieg activate Balmung repeatedly? It makes no sense at all.

    • December 11, 2017 at 5:36 amDorcas_Aurelia

      - Literally fucking invincible with Armor
      - His NP is the best and most powerful weapon out there, but loses his armor once he uses it.
      - Instead of just keep fighting an endurance battle, he goes for the kill.
      - Pulls out the lance then jobs like a bitch.
      What a Trifa ripoff.

  • December 10, 2017 at 10:45 pmDorian S.

    If you think about it, Atalanta is very similar to Shirou Emiya after he got his second chance at life in the Fate and UBW storylines. She’s dedicated to saving any and every child she can, when you know that’s entirely impossible for it to be done. Basically like how Shirou wants to save everyone but you know he can’t.

    Man, Archers really get the short sticks in… Oh who am I kidding. All of Nasu’s Heroes get the short end of the stick. Except Kalied’s Illya, and even then, I’m expecting something terrible to happen to her.

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:08 pmhaseo0408

      The main difference with Shirou is that the poor guy learn some degree of control of his hero impulses but Atalanta took it to his insane conclusion.

      • December 11, 2017 at 12:17 amFabuzer

        Atalanta went insane due to Jack’s Noble Phantasm. She was aware of it and could have easily dispelled it by asking Amakusa or Semiramis, but she didn’t want to rely on their help. Moreover, she even believed that she had to be punished for being unable to save the children.

        Also, while superficially similar, Shirou and Atalanta are quite different. Shirou is aware that saving everyone is impossible (he even said so in the first episode, which somehow people always miss) but doesn’t care since he has nothing else inside him. Atalanta, like Kiritsugu, genuinely believed in an impossible dream and foolishly pursued it until she self-destructed.

      • December 11, 2017 at 2:47 amVoradors

        You know that in her myth she agreed to marry the person who beat her in a race, right? Her husband ended up winning the race by dropping several golden apples which stopped Atalanta as she picked them to eat.

      • December 11, 2017 at 3:03 amScarredSwordHeart

        So she’s used goods? Fucking slut.
        Why the fuck does she portray herself as a maiden that doesn’t like being touched if she already fucked a guy?

        I’m going to burn my Atalanta’s right now

      • December 11, 2017 at 3:29 amcasanova

        It is the result of TM cherry picking traits of her from all legends of her in order to please waifufags like you.

        Burning her card just because she is “used good” is still retarded though.

      • December 11, 2017 at 3:49 amrainbowcourage

        Because it was basically rape.

        She was thrown in the gutter by her father, goddess picked her up and took care of her to some extent.
        That is why she was more animal than man, she vowed to stay virgin and take care of all the kids as they are innocent.
        Father when she turned out to be a beauty came back to her to use her as a political tool in marriage.
        She did not want to, so she said beat me in a race and I will marry you.
        She was confident that no one was able to beat her on foot.
        She was stupidly attracted to all and any apple, this was something her father dropped the guy.
        So he got hands on those super rare golden apples and dropped them like everywhere.
        She could not resist and instead of running she picked them up and lost and was thus forced to have sex.

      • December 11, 2017 at 4:04 amExaar

        falls for apples, is she an aho?

      • December 11, 2017 at 4:17 amAgent355

        Almost. The guy who beat her appealed directly to Aphrodite who didnt like the purity vow that Atalanta made to Artemis and wanted to piss Artemis off by having her devout follower break it
        Aphrodite then gives the guy a fuckload of Golden Apples which are Atalanta’s only real distraction in life.

      • December 11, 2017 at 4:57 amScarredSwordHeart

        Still used goods. Could’ve just killed the guy but it says half-forced marriage so she enjoyed the sex

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:20 amcool3865

        If “used goods” is your issue then practically all of the female servants are against you. Nearly all of them would have had partners and fucked in their lifetime.

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:06 amKenshin_Himura93

        You’re all cucks who like a girl who willingly fucked another man. Say all you want but at least other heroes don’t go around saying “HURR DURR IM A PURE VIRGIN”, she’s a used cumdump rag.

      • December 11, 2017 at 7:02 amDivineking

        urrr durrr cuck durrr, thats nice, dear.

      • December 12, 2017 at 2:00 pmRedRocket

        The golden apples were god-level magic that forced Atalanta to chase them. Just another Greek god messing with someone. Then Atlanta was bound to function as a wife by her vows and her father.

        The idea that virginity is the only value of women because women are property is an old horrible idea. Especially as men are not condemned by having many lovers neather should women be. In a healthy society, without sexually transmitted illness, both sexes have sex in whatever way that pleases them and the only deviants are those who resist having sex dispite wanting too. With STD around, condom use and limited partnerships are a good idea but this a health not moral issue.

        Anyone who calls a woman ruined or a slut or similar term is someone who hates women and oppresses them.

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:15 pmdarkchibi07

      - Atalanta in Greek mythology has kid and gets turned into lion for fucking her husband in a

      - Atalanta in FGO is a waifu pandering character who gets embarrassed if her master even touches her

      What the fuck is this revision?

      • December 11, 2017 at 4:34 amKyuriko

        If only they put effort just as much on the writing of this utter childish mobage.

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:37 amTheVoid

        There’s also some stuff about her regretting the way she acted in Apocrypha too in FGO. But its lost under the waifupandering. Just like the other decent bits included in Interludes or small situations in events or story.

      • December 11, 2017 at 7:00 pmkawaiibunny3

        No. Fanfics are written better than FGO.

      • December 12, 2017 at 1:52 pmRedRocket

        Depends on where in her story you get her. If you get her from before marriage she going to resist sex. Even later in a new life, she might try to return to her original vows. Actually happens in real life. Women on religious basis swearing chastity becoming nuns even after having children. Her sex in the temple was forced by a god. The Greek gods loved to punk people by using mind control to make them break some others god’s rule so that God would punish them.

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:58 pmMinnow

      How does Atalanta smell like? How does her armpit smell like?

      • December 11, 2017 at 12:17 amv1cious

        Do cats sweat?

      • December 11, 2017 at 12:29 amAdomisbielon

        On their paws yes.

      • December 14, 2017 at 1:08 amAzathrael

        Muh children, shit cat.

    • December 11, 2017 at 11:00 amOne-Eye

      I’m not the one who goes around doing mental gymnastics to say Atalanta is pure. That’s what annoys me with how she’s lying

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:13 amookamigirl

        Stop being autistic. She says she has taken a vow and thats it. Even in life she never willingly broke the vow and was forced to marry literally due to the Gods fucking her life up.

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:21 amOne-Eye

        She’s not pure. Stop trying to do mental gymnastics when she clearly says she’s a virgin.

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:29 amookamigirl

        Where does she state this? Again, I’m not trying to assert anything you daft cunt. All she says in her lines is that she has taken a Vow of Chastisy.

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:35 amOne-Eye

        She took a vow which assumes she’s still following it. She broke it the moment she decided to become a cocksleeve to some Greek chad with apples

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:40 amookamigirl

        She is still following it and in life she never willingly broke it. A literal goddess intervened in the footrace and forced her into marriage. She had no choice in that matter. Why are you so stupid?

      • December 11, 2017 at 4:45 pmOne-Eye

        A vow of chastity means you don’t ever break it. The hymen breaking means you’re no longer a virgin. You can’t go back and undo it. What’s so fucking hard to understand about this, Cuck-kun?

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:02 pmScytalle

        Tell that to the tons or turk roach women in Germany who slut around and then let their hymen repair by a doctor.

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:38 pmookamigirl

        What part of “forced to break it by a Goddess” dont you get, you stupid cunt?

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:48 pmOne-Eye

        The part where regardless of divine intervention that she broke her promise. She got turned into a lion for fucking in the temple.

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:56 pmMeraxes

        I think the Church considers someone a virgin if the girl did not give consent.

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:06 pmOne-Eye

        She DID give consent by willingly marrying him

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:24 pmSupposed

        I don’t know much about the myths. Did she give consent on the actual sex, not because they’re married? If not, then she’s not a virgin.

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:28 pmOne-Eye

        You DONT break promises in Greek myth. If you do the furies come after you and even the gods (including Zeus. ) were afraid of those little shits.

  • December 10, 2017 at 11:04 pmOne Pinch Man

    This may not be Ufotable smooth but this episode is a BLAST!!! Where’s Mordred in this episode?

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:20 pmhaseo0408

      According with some information I found the Brahmastra Kundala Karna fired at middle of the battle has the power of a modern nuke and his final Noble Phantasm Vasavi Shakti is so much more powerful that nukes look like firecrackers in comparation and after seeing this episode I agree completely, that thing oblivarated the entire world created by Achilleus Kosmos and that was a shield forged and enchanted by Ephestus himself!.

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:25 pmangel_lover

      check the final credists, they used the Aldnoah.Zero’s old animation team in this episode.

    • December 11, 2017 at 4:52 amgeishageek

      Wait, how strong is something something Vishanti anyway? Is it even stronger than EXCALIBUR?

      • December 11, 2017 at 4:58 amfurizaa

        It’s EX rank.

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:28 amDorcas_Aurelia

        Excalibur ain’t the big NP to beat these days for sure. However yes Vasavi is most likely stronger.

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:49 amomar235

        It’s stronger unless Excalibur is fully unlocked.

      • December 11, 2017 at 7:00 amAbunai

        It’s arguably the strongest NP in terms of pure firepower/energy.

      • December 11, 2017 at 7:05 amOtishio

        Its probably barely top ten

        Strongest NP is Als Almedias Salomonis at the moment. Which has the power to destroy the world a few times over.

      • December 11, 2017 at 7:13 amGilgamesh

        The thing is most EX NP’s are only EX because of some weird concept behind it. Example, EA is pure fire power is only slightly better than Excalibur, but because of it’s unique properties it’s got a much higher output and ranks at EX.
        This thing is straight up EX with nothing but pure firepower, no strings or concepts involved. The only thing I can think that competes with it is Salmonis and Excalibur(Proto) since those are the only other NP’s that have the same output without any concepts attached. with Karna’s NP being a planet buster, Salmonis being a planet buster and Excalibur proto edging in just for being an EX thing with no concepts so it has to be close to Vasavi atleast.
        In order it be Salomnis>Vasavi>EXcalibur(Proto). We don’t have any other planet busting NP’s I can think of at the moment, but I have the nagging feeling there are 1 or 2 from CCC.

      • December 11, 2017 at 9:37 amScaramanga

        To date it’s one of the only real EX ranked NP that’s ranked as such purely because of raw firepower with no weird effect like Ea’s space-time fucking or Avalon’s perfect dimensional shift.
        The other one I can think of off the top of my head is Arthur’s Excalibur.

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:08 amSereneChaos

        So God>Planet?

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:19 aminfiltration.cru

        Vasavi isn’t a planet buster, stop giving Karnafags a bad name.
        No NP can be a planet buster, even if it had the firepower for it, it just flat out can’t destroy the planet at all because that’s how Alaya and Servants work.
        What it is is an insanely powerful EX ranked beam that will probably kill the shit out of you unless you happen to be a Beast or something if it hits you at full power. It’s not a planet buster.


      • December 11, 2017 at 11:33 amBango

        >EA is pure fire power is only slightly better than Excalibur,
        He never even used Ea’s secret form that he showed off in CCC and Ataraxia against Saber, the version that was slightly above Excalibur was still him holding back. Excalibur got buffed a thousand more times, Ea had to keep up, so the super secret world breaker mode is the mode that’s above super secret version of Excalibur. Since those two were called the top NPs or right above each other, any time one gets buffed the other gets buffed.
        but I have the nagging feeling there are 1 or 2 from CCC.
        BB’s NP is basically the authority of all gods, the life mother that is the creation of the planet, and the authority of the mooncell combined into an unrankable NP that just deletes the target from reality without question.

        Kiara’s NP is elder god NP that’s also kinda above the planet tier.
        There are still NPs you’re forgetting outside of those ones though. Virgin Razor Palladion, the blade of Athena that bypasses all walls or whatever, was able to destroy a Beast. Rhongomyriado the spear that ends the world on the same level as the holy spear Longius. Trisula Shakti the spear of Shiva that is said to be unbeatable by anything, which he gave to his wife temporarily. There’s a dozen other difficult ones.

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:44 amleatherhead

        Strongerest NPs

        Als Salomonis
        Lord Camelot
        Achilles Cosmos
        Amita Amitābha
        Heaven’s Hole
        Virgin Razor Palladion
        Trishula Shakti
        Vasavi Shakti
        Qliphoth Rhizome

        I forget the exact order

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:51 pmCYNRHEL

        It’s planet buster in attack potency.
        It cant actually destroy a planet, I know that no NP can. But in attack potency (I.E it can destroy something tough enough that survived an explotion strong enough to wipe out a city, meaning it’s a “city level attack” even if it can’t actually destroy a city) it’s probably planetery since it destroyed Kosmos, which has the durability of a planet. does that make sense?
        Its a power scaling term, I know because of how Alaya and the throne works you can’t REALLY destroy the world.

        An example of something with a super high attack potency but a small scale would be something like Tsbuame gaeshi, its 3 sword slashes but it’s strong enough to kill saber even though she’s survived a mountain-level attack from Herc.

      • December 11, 2017 at 5:59 pmDessa

        Anti-world isn’t the only statement of power, an anti-unit NP can be stronger than an Anti-World one just by being more focused. We’ve seen this kinda thing before. CCC does show that Ea’s anti-world mode is far stronger than the normal blast of energy from Ea, its not just him meaninglessly stripping away the lies from the world. Ea when it rips away the face of the planet is far stronger.
        Saying basically “Those other NPs probably don’t count” shows ignorance. As already stated Virgin Razor killed an evil of humanity by itself, Rhongo destroyed the world in Camelot, Buddha’s NP is called the ultimate anti-unit NP that humanity cannot overcome or whatever, and etc. Its Karna’s NP that has failed every time he’s used it and hasn’t managed to kill anyone despite people claiming feats for him, not the other way around with everyone else lacking feats and him being Mr.Immortal. Vasavi is basically Gae Bolg, its all talk. Vasavi can’t actually destroy a planet, its not even anti-planet. Its only anti-country. No Vasavi isn’t the guy to beat even if its strong.

      • December 12, 2017 at 2:47 pmRedRocket

        Illya’s double Kalediostick second magic NP Quintett Fauer drawing it seems by the images the whole power of a huge number of universes is EX rank. It turns a monster size Gilgamesh powered up by absorbing the Greater Grail into mist defeating an EA beam that is powerful enough to cause a universal rift. Illya at the time sporting a large number of energy wings that probably hint at a connection to the root in the same way that Light Hawk Wings in Tenchi Muyo connect to the root. Gilgamesh gives a mixed reaction later in the boy form that survived, he is both amazed that it beat EA but claims in the half mixed way he was incarnated he could only do so much.
        Like almost everything in the Type-Moon works powers and the way things work are always said by a character allowing that character to be wrong either in part or whole on how things work. Many things people think are rules are just the knowledge of a person or an organization and thus always subject to being incorrect. This version of the Unreliable Narrator trope that Type-Moon uses is a very useful technique to keep the writing from being boxed in.
        No matter how powerful you want to say Quintett Fauer is, it is an EX NP and deserves mention with the other EX NP.

      • December 12, 2017 at 2:53 pmRedRocket

        Forgot to add that many NP like EA is described in possible power level but rarely if ever does the character in the story actually have the mana supply to use at full power. In EA’s case, it seams Gilgamesh normally only has enough mana to make it roughly Excaliber strength with a few special abilities of its own. And of course, Gilgamesh is an unreliable narrator so actual power it can reach is unknown and might be way less than he claims at least welded by him instead of the creator of the Earth.

  • December 10, 2017 at 11:06 pmdirkusbirkus

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:26 pmJedi General

      I had to watch it again to realize it.

    • December 11, 2017 at 10:34 amTakaii

      Wait — Astolfo’s sword?
      I thought it was Sieg’s sword (the one he keeps holstered in normal form)

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:47 amMistypearl

        it’s the sword that Astolfo has given Sieg in episode 4.

  • December 10, 2017 at 11:14 pmhaseo0408

    Now this is how an epic battle must be! Two heroes giving their best with enough firepower to destroy the planet multiple times, how is the Gardens of Babylon still standing after that apocaliptic showdown!?. The music and animation were incredible during the battle along with clash of the ideals and personalities of the two mighty warriors.

    Karna has proven he´s without a doubt the most powerful Hroe of the Nasuverse, Gilgamesh and Ramses might powerful as hell but they can´t hold a candle to this guy. So badass he even died with a smile standing proud, that´s a first for a Lancer in the Nasuverse!.

    • December 11, 2017 at 12:35 amFabuzer

      The firepower displayed was insane, but they never approached planet-busting levels. Even Ars Almadel Salomonis (a ring of million of light rays, each as powerful as Excalibur), Solomon’s Noble Phantasm and arguably the strongest in terms of raw power, couldn’t blow up Earth.

      And before someone mention it, no, not even Ea. Ea is Anti-World not because it can destroy a planet, but because it warps reality by affecting the World.

      Karna is my favorite Servant, so it irks me to say that Gilgamesh would beat him if he wanted to. However, I feel better knowing that even Gilgamesh respects him immensely. Moreover, Vasavi Shakti and Kavacha&Kundala are not present in Gate of Babylon, which is why Gilgamesh was interested in collecting them.

    • December 11, 2017 at 5:51 amWrangler

      Gilgamesh auto-dies if Karna uses it first. Vasavi Shakti is Anti-Divine and Gil is 2/3 God.

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:08 amdjvenom

        Is that Gilgamesh with eyes or without?

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:50 amSiieregannsu


        It doesn’t work like that, it just has enough power to kill even a god.
        A true anti-god NP that has a chance of auto-killing you that’s higher depending on how high divinity you have is Arjuna’s NP.

      • December 11, 2017 at 9:42 amMiranox

        * Enkidu
        * Counter with Ea
        * Dozens of shield NPs
        * Dodging
        Unless you mean Gil tries to face tank it, well no shit he’ll die.

      • December 11, 2017 at 11:03 amSimpsom

        Vasavi is Anti-Divine because it’s so powerful that it’s capable of killing gods. It’s not classified that way because it’s strong against them in particular.

      • December 11, 2017 at 8:28 pmhaseo0408

        Enkidou would be next to useless against Karna, yes he has highest divinity of the Nasuverse but his most characteristic trait is his willpower, if Heracles could get free from that god slaying chain you bet anything Karna can do the same 1000 times faster.

      • December 12, 2017 at 3:15 pmRedRocket

        Gil has a good claim at best overall servant. Illya has a claim at most powerful for a short bit but only in a form that she might not be able to use again. And no way anyone beating Karna in India.

    • December 11, 2017 at 9:15 pmGrecian

      Saber can also defend against Gilgamesh’s most powerful weapon by far, but that doesn’t put her on his level. It’s not a case of Kosmos = instawin, it’s just that Kosmos happened to be a very good counter to Vasavi. Hell, in the novels it wasn’t even a perfect counter, Astolfo was still injured when it hit, and that was after a CS boosted Balmung that only lost because Sieg didn’t have the willpower to keep going.

      • December 11, 2017 at 9:28 pmMiddlesbrough

        Avalon is a cheat noble phantasm that may as well make her Gilgamesh-tier. As long as she hasn’t it on, she can avoid just about every noble phantasm and strike with Excalibur in the opening her enemy’s leave. She won’t beat Gil because he’s too versatile but she is definitely a threat to him, so I don’t know where you’re going with this.

        Achilles’ shield can be equipped to his chariot and simulates a combination similar to what Rider and Shirou pulled in NF with Bellephoron and Rho Ahias. If Karna pulled that same VS stunt against Achilles like he did against Sieg, he would have died.

        That’s not to say Achilles is stronger than him, but you don’t need to be stronger to be on the same level.

      • December 11, 2017 at 9:33 pmJeonbuk

        Karna pulled that same VS stunt against Achilles like he did against Sieg, he would have died.
        That would have cost an insane amount of mana though. Between his invincibility, his chariot, and his shield, that’s a B rank NP, an A rank NP, and an A+ rank NP to power all at once. Even then, this assumes that Achilles can force Karna into using it in the first place.

        It doesn’t much matter if he can block Vasavi if Karna could beat him in melee anyway.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:01 pmMiddlesbrough

        Yes and that’s why it depends on the master and how long he’d need to keep it up. That said, Karna is hardly in a better spot. Just using mana burst in combination with his armor was something he wanted to avoid as to not drain his master dry. Brahmastra and Vasavi Shatki would be out of the question regularly.
        Take away their big guns and Achilles still has stats on-par or better than Karna’s for being able to push back both Siegfried and Frankenstein simultaneously, whereas Karna was stalemated by the former alone. Karna would win eventually because his defenses work while Achilles’ invincibility doesn’t, however it won’t be a cakewalk. Achilles will just opt for his chariot. and you would think that he’d have the maneuverability and destructive power to overwhelm Karna to the point where melee isn’t going to cut it.
        As far as I can see, a fight between them depends on, “can the master sustain X maneuver without dying”. We don’t know but its not relevant. We know enough to say Achilles and Karna would have a very competitive fight where either losing is very possible, even with Higashide botching the former’s performance.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:08 pmAngra

        Arturia is definately on and around the same tier as Gil with Avalon.

        You can try to claim that Avalon is hax but so it Gil’s gate spam. In 1 on 1 fighting Saber would kick the shit out of Gil.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:14 pmOnigawara Rin

        Even with Avalon, Saber was relying on surprise. She surprised Gil by Avaloning away his strongest attack and in the opening he made she Excalibur’d him. If she had used it at all beforehand, if he knew about it, if he knew she had it, he would not have lost that fight. Avalon is a perfect defense but that’s all it is. He could have just spammed GoB at her until her mana ran dry if he’d been prepared for it. If she catches him by surprise she can win, but without that surprise her chances drop drastically.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:24 pmAngra

        Gil’s chances basically depend on his pride and how bored he is.
        He could GoB/Ea everything to dust from a distance.
        As far as actual swordsmanship does, he lost to Shirou, so he would have certainly lost to Saber, especially if she had a decent mana supply.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:29 pmOnigawara Rin

        He lost to Shirou partially thanks to the circumstances. If two people draw their swords to attack, the one to draw first will obviously have the advantage. Because Unlimited Blade Works has a speed advantage over Gate of Babylon, Shirou always drew his weapons first every single time.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:33 pmAngra

        And this is why power comparisons are so hard to make.
        No Ea Gil vs full mana Saber.
        Ea Gil vs full mana Avalon Saber.
        Saber vs Redman.
        Rin’s Saber vs Redman.
        These are just some I’d like to know, but if they actually showed up the circumstances would tip the scales.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:39 pmOnigawara Rin

        Excalibur can’t beat Ea.
        Avalon only works as a trump card. It’s only going to work once.
        Saber wins at close range, but it’s harder for her if Archer’s sniping from a great distance.
        If Archer’s working alone and Saber has Rin’s support, then Saber would probably win.

    • December 12, 2017 at 9:05 pmmira-pyon

  • December 10, 2017 at 11:25 pmVelvet Scarlantina

    Derpy animation but still fun to watch. More importantly, Astolbro lives on! On borrowed time… TT__TT

    • December 11, 2017 at 1:08 amMike On Top

      • December 11, 2017 at 1:24 amyourrealdad

        Astolfo is best girl the show, How do you hold hands with Astolfo?

      • December 11, 2017 at 1:38 amninjapet

        I wonder what a hand job from her would be like.

      • December 11, 2017 at 1:49 amJoichiro Nishi

        I hope you are into urethral insertion.

      • December 11, 2017 at 2:12 amdan7el

        I hope you are into urethral insertion.

        Is this canon?

      • December 11, 2017 at 2:21 amRhyono

        I dont think so, but she does give off a sadistic vibe so who knows

      • December 11, 2017 at 2:38 amOverall

        I hope so, because I will impregnate her.

    • December 11, 2017 at 3:25 amXanas

      Its written by a nip. They lose their shits over everything.

  • December 10, 2017 at 11:26 pmsouma


    hmmm…so vlad staks + his home advantage hardly wound karna while astolfo sword can pierce karna easily?? well…let’s just say that lancer’s luck playing it’s part.



    the animation reminds me of mob psycho style…it’s good though

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:30 pmhaseo0408

      Karna´s final Noble Phantasm Vasavi Shakti can only be used after he sacrificed his Armor of the Sun Noble Phantasm, he gains the power to destroy worlds and gods alike but it uses an insane amount of magic and it is left very weakened after using it because it chips aways at his life force as well, that´s whay Sieg was able to impale him.

      • December 10, 2017 at 11:35 pmsouma

        oh i see, damn the power to destroy world haha…if astolfo too late to used that shield. karna will destroy the hanging garden itself.

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:44 pmMistypearl

      the sword that Astolfo has given Sieg is made of a paladin resistant material, please recall that this is the same sword who pierced the Mordred’s armor.

  • December 10, 2017 at 11:35 pmL002

    Would have really wonder what this Shield can do completely if Achilles used it.

    I wonder if Shirou can use project that shield, that shield is definitely better compared to Rho Aias

    • December 11, 2017 at 12:24 amFabuzer

      For those who didn’t know, Astolfo could use Akhilleus Kosmos because in his legend he received Noble Phantasms from others while Achilles gave them. It wasn’t a perfect transition, but it was enough.

      In Achilles’ hands, Akhilleus Kosmos could be used offensively. The shield contains a World, and by using that concept, its defensive properties can be turned into an attack to crush the opponent with a World’s weight.

      Akhilleus Kosmos is indeed better than Rho Aias. As it contains a World, only Anti-World Noble Phantasms like Ea can destroy it (not attacks capable of destroying a planet, but attacks that affect the World itself and warp reality).

      By the way, Shirou can’t project it. It’s a Divine Contruct, made by Hephaestus, and that’s Shirou’s limit. Moreover, he is limited to swords and anything that strays too far from that concept is a lot weaker and require much more prana.

      • December 11, 2017 at 1:05 amL002

        I see. So the reason why Shirou can project Divine Constructs, like Ig-Alima and Sul-sagana, was because they were swords.

        Dumb question, so let’s say Shirou is powered by Illya’s prana supply (which is considered endless), would Shirou at least make a weak version of Akhilleus Kosmos? If Shirou can use a weak Akhilleus Kosmos, especially in an offensive manner, then that would be devastating.

      • December 11, 2017 at 1:15 amL002

        And sorry, another question, so Akhilleus Kosmos’s only weakness is Anti-World Noble Phantasms. Does that mean that the shield can block an Anti-Humanity Noble Phantasm, like Ars Almadel Salomonis, as well as other peculiar Noble Phantasms like Anti-Mountain, Anti-Populace, Anti-Planet, and Anti-Treasure Noble Phantasms?

      • December 11, 2017 at 2:13 amFabuzer

        Replying to my own comment to answer your questions:

        - No, Shirou can’t trace Divine Constructs, that’s it. Those you mentioned were projected by the Shirou from Miyu’s universe; the author also isn’t Nasu, so he took liberties with what Shirou could do. If our Shirou attempted to trace a Divine Construct, he would make a weaker and imperfect version and then die from the strain and prana cost.

        - I don’t think any amount of prana can help him. Even if he didn’t die from the prana cost, it’s a fact that Unlimited Blade Works can’t store Divine Constructs since Shirou can’t understand their composition. UBW can only replicate earthly materials and Divine Contructs are made with special components.

        - Akhilleus Kosmos can block anything apart from Anti-World and Anti-Planet Noble Phantasms. The former would warp reality and rip apart the shield’s world, the latter simply has enough raw power to destroy it. Vasavi Shakti ultimately destroyed the shield’s world for possibly two reasons: Astolfo wasn’t the owner and couldn’t draw out the shield’s true power; Vasavi Shakti is an Anti-Divine Noble Phantasm and since Akhilleus Kosmos is a Divine Construct, it was just bad compatibility.

      • December 11, 2017 at 3:17 amL002

        I see, thank you Fabuzer. Now I am stumped in what makes Miyu’s Shirou different from a regular Shirou if Miyu’s Shirou “cheated” in some way to make Divine Constructs. The same goes for how Kuro or Illya when either uses Emiya’s powers in order to make Excalibur. It would be funny if Nasu said “You know I mentioned in how Shirou can’t make Divine Constructs, well I lied.”

      • December 11, 2017 at 3:24 amWorldwidedepp

        I would not be surprised, when this Shield has some kind of Meteoroid metal with tiny bit out of this World alloy

        Also, did Shirou not used some sort of Shield in UBW? Some kind of a rose? or i are my memory playing tricks with me?

      • December 11, 2017 at 8:12 pmhaseo0408

        A perfect example of Anti-World Noble Phantasm is Excalibur Protos of Arthur Pendragon from Fate Prototype, the sword has enough firepower normally but when the right cicumstances are met it releases the seals that hold its true power. When the 13 Seals are released (one for each Knight of the Round Table and King Arthur) Excalibur protos because the only Anti Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm of the Nasuverse, it means the sword was created to destroy enemies that destroy worlds in one shot! Not warped bot obliverate planets, think of a sword that can slay Primal Murder with relative ease.

      • December 12, 2017 at 3:50 amSymptomatic

        Maybe but we have never seen what a Saber with access to Avalon could do with a decent master/prana supply. We have not idea how mobile Avalon is or its utility in combat.
        All we know is that ig Gil can be closed down and the Gate spam averted then he will likely lose against someone with decent swords skills.

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:38 amBudget

        Nah, shit swords skills

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:47 amHundreds

        Yes. As Shirou proved, Gil has never mastered a single form of combat and will be at a disadvantage if crossing swords against someone who has mastered their art.

      • December 12, 2017 at 2:39 pmwalw6pK4Alo

        -mastered their art.
        -decent swords skills.
        something doesn’t line up here.

      • December 12, 2017 at 3:00 pmScormio

        I’m a hair splitting faggot

        Arturia is a master with her weapon. Stop being a dumb cunt.

      • December 12, 2017 at 3:06 pmwalw6pK4Alo

        - I’m a master swordsman!
        - I’m a decent swordsman.
        lol what’s the difference stop being such a stickler.

      • December 12, 2017 at 3:24 pmScormio

        -Be autistic as fuck.
        -get told off.
        -try to play it off.

        Nah, bro. You look like a stupid cunt.

      • December 12, 2017 at 5:00 pmRedRocket

        A reminder that most rules in the Fate multi-universe are stated by a character and thus just a opinion not a rule.
        Shiro can trace Excaliber as he has been able to read it but it is not an exact copy. His limits with Devine Constructs is probably if he can understand the way it works which he can not do for most of them. But only Ilya, Kuro, and Myu have the mana supply to actually use them roughly at full power or even better because they have an unlimited mana supply much greater than the Saber’s have when they are merged with Emya. And now that Illya and Myu can actually merge with the heroic spirit of any card they get they get to use the real thing when they are Saber.

    • December 12, 2017 at 4:03 amSashaNein

      Remember his first fight with Saber when he fought her in melee and just kept swinging different weapons with different effects at her? Unless you’re insanely good at melee combat and can kill him very quickly, Gil can beat you in melee by virtue of having tons of toys to play with.

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:23 amL’Imperatore

        That’s really not how melee combat works, realistically any time he moves to get something new he’s fucking dead.

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:59 amMegiddo

        Except he did do that against someone who has well above “decent” sword skills and it worked perfectly. He can swap weapons when he swings easily, it’s not hard for him. Your argument is shit considering we’ve seen how it works already.

      • December 12, 2017 at 2:49 pmeverydaygamer

        And yet he lost to Shirou because UBW was faster. So Gil can switch fast enough to keep up with a master swordsman that doesn’t have to switch, but can’t against a decent swordsman who also has to switch?

      • December 12, 2017 at 3:43 pmRancorous

        Let’s be honest, there is a maximum depth level beyond which everything is utter nonsense, there is no point theorycrafting in FSN.

      • December 12, 2017 at 3:57 pmJohn Hayabusa

        If you’re theory crafting we have to account for the fact that if you try that in a real fight, what happens is you get stabbed because you’re defenceless. Or we could jsut not be retards who discuss powerlevels.

    • December 12, 2017 at 4:14 amHikaru Suzuhara

      decent swords skills


      • December 12, 2017 at 3:30 pmMesonoxian

        Had Shirou mastered an art?

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:07 pmPolycell

        Yes, you stupid fuck, or did you not know that his projection also traces the mastery that the original hero had with their weapon?

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:14 pmEchoes

        But all those things he traced belonged to a guy who hadn’t mastered an art?

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:17 pmZork

        Shirou/Archer’s specific fighting style with Kanshou/Byakura was the best fighting form that Shirou/Archer could ever logically aquire in life.It was mastered and efficient. The only difference between it and other Heroic spirits is that Kanshou/Byakuya are not renowned enough to be their own high level NPs.
        Archer’s sword style is enough to reach a stalemate with fucking Cu Chualain. He could definately handle Gil in single combat.

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:43 pmJohn Hayabusa

        Archer’s sword style is enough to reach a stalemate with fucking Cu Chualain

        yeah a cu who was held back by a command spell. Cu shits on him in UBW when he isn’t held back.

      • December 12, 2017 at 5:11 pmCommunity

        Archer still fights him to a standstill in UBW. Cu even acknowedges it. Cu got so frustrated by him that he resorted to thrown Gay Bulge which still didnt kill him.

      • December 12, 2017 at 5:20 pmJohn Hayabusa

        Cu got so frustrated by him that he resorted to thrown Gay Bulge which still didnt kill him.

        Cu only uses Gae bulge because Archer shit talked him into using it. If you read the scene again it’s clear Lancer has a huge advantage over him.


      • December 12, 2017 at 5:53 pmfaizazhar

        Archer was still holding his own easily enough. Sure he was fighting defensively most of the time but thats still a fucking impressive feat against posibly one of the most skilled Lancers in the entire series.

      • December 12, 2017 at 7:06 pmBeltane70

        Shirou/Archer’s specific fighting style with Kanshou/Byakura was the best fighting form that Shirou/Archer could ever logically aquire in life.

        Why would that matter when he’s relying on the mastery engraved in the history of the weapons he’s tracing?

      • December 12, 2017 at 7:18 pmkilljoy_the

        It’s not as reliable. Utilizing someone else’s mastery means entrusting your body and will to the skills of someone you’ve probably never met, basically putting yourself on autopilot. It’s best used in limited circumstances, such as firing off inferior versions of other heroes’ techniques when the situation calls for it.

      • December 12, 2017 at 7:23 pmMikasa

        It wouldnt. The dude I replied to was making the point that he fought Gil with Kansou/Byakuya which he (Archer) mastered all on his own without any trace hacks.

      • December 12, 2017 at 7:28 pmPolycell

        I am that dude and I wasn’t making that point. You’re the first guy in the reply chain to bring up K&B.

    • December 12, 2017 at 4:28 amCrusher X303

      Achilles can take Carna right?

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:42 amChibiKangaroo

        Karna Blanco is the strongest servant.

      • December 12, 2017 at 5:02 amMegiddo

        What about calvo Achilles.

  • December 10, 2017 at 11:46 pmS.Canton

    What’s he gonna do? Recite poetry until Jeanne is bored out of her mind?

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:50 pmAusdoerrt

      Shakespeare will have her relive taking unwashed french baguettes in the Bastille.

    • December 10, 2017 at 11:55 pmIan K

      You summon this little shit during a HolyGrailWar

      How do you win?

      • December 11, 2017 at 12:44 amdewlwieldthedarpachief

        By being a sneaky bastard and making alligences with other Masters only to fuck them over once they have run their course.
        Shakes is the ultimate sneaky bastard servant. Even more so than any Assassin since he can fuck with the minds of servants and masters alike an no amount of magic resistance can stop him.

    • December 11, 2017 at 12:18 amv1cious

      You don’t. Summon Dumas instead.

    • December 11, 2017 at 12:25 amvalondar

      @Ian K Bill didn’t have an existentialist crisis over his identity and whether he was really William Shakespeare or just Marlowe larping as a poet. This would’ve been great.

    • December 11, 2017 at 11:43 amdean

      Shakespeare wrote a tragedy about her (Henry VI). While I’m not exactly sure what his abilities are, I think they involve making his tragedies realities. In a way, one could say, he is her natural enemey. The real Shakespeare thought Jeanne was a lying whore btw.

    • December 11, 2017 at 8:16 pmhaseo0408

      Someone told me that Shakespeare is of the most dangerous Heroic Spirits you could face, I´m not sure what his powers are but he´s the greates manipulative bastard of the Nasuverse, this guy could give classes to Kotomine Kirei, take a minute to think about that.

  • December 11, 2017 at 12:34 amHalfDemonInuyasha

    The art style is a bit jarring for me as I’m not really too used to it, but the animation was awesome. I only wish the battle between Siegfried and Karna was longer.

    Now I’m curious on how Shakespeare is the “worst opponent” for Jeanne.

    • December 12, 2017 at 5:10 pmRedRocket

      I wonder as well as in FGO and other sources the Type-Moon wiki is clear that Jeane died a Christian Mytar which is the best thing that can happen to a Catholic and thus no Alter can be created from Jeane. Type Moon is aware that Jeane is fine with her death and she even stated so in this show. The Jeane alter is a creation of Giles with a grail with how Giles thought she should think not how she actually thought. So I hope they are not falling into the old trap of many fictions of Jeane being regretful or angry over her fate but something we are not thinking about now.

  • December 11, 2017 at 1:17 amRedSwirl

    How can Astolfo possibly be a good mother if she doesn’t have the breasts to feed her children?

    • December 11, 2017 at 1:35 amGrinfilledCelt

      that’s what wet nurses are for bro

    • December 11, 2017 at 2:26 amEreshkigal

      Name me five Type-Moon girls purer than Astolfo.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:57 amArcueid Brunestud

        Mata Hari

      • December 11, 2017 at 8:17 pmhaseo0408

        Who the hell is Fujinon?.

      • December 11, 2017 at 8:43 pmCiriopascolo

        Fujinon is Fujino Asagami’s nickname, the antagonist of the third chapter of Kara no Kyoukai, “Remaining Sense of Pain”.

      • December 12, 2017 at 9:32 pmhaseo0408

        I remember her now! The poor girl is most unluckiest character of the franchise, no matter how many she put down I could never hate her.

  • December 11, 2017 at 1:44 amKurik

    Frenetic/Kinetic? The words that come to mind while watching this episode. Reminded me of those classics such as Kill la Kill or Gurren Lagann…Loved it though I would have loved it more if they stuck to the original art style with the details as everything was mostly blurry. Sieg seems to be taking sensu beans as he seems to have recovered quick well from that massive fight. not a scare of dirt in sight. Things like this annoys me as there seems to be no price to pay and they have been harping on how he is using up his life with each fight. Oh well, the plot is driven forward and I am still liking the show.

  • December 11, 2017 at 2:59 amJackno

    can’t like Atalanta no matter what. I keep seeing her as a baby obsessed landwhale. The way she just goes shit all because some children died disgusts me. What a crazy idiot.

    • December 11, 2017 at 4:21 amLuckySleven

      That’s an evil cat.

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:27 pmBeltane70

        So this is how waifufags and their mental gymnastics looks like.

      • December 11, 2017 at 10:20 pmFurudanuki

        Definitely, which is a surprising in of itself.

      • December 14, 2017 at 1:06 amTcDohl

        Isn’t it implied in the myths that atlanta totally knew she was being duped by let it happen because she didn’t want to murder the guy and also kinda wanted to marry him anyways?

      • December 14, 2017 at 1:24 amBusaiku Chama

        That sounds like a fanfiction desu senpai

      • December 14, 2017 at 1:40 amzalas

        I dont think so but there are a few different versions of nearly every Greek myth.

        The general accepted one is that she was genuinely comitted to Artemis and her chastisy vow and wanted no partner at all. Which is why she happily killed the ones who lost against her in the race.

        The guy who beat her did so without Atalanta’s knowledge of the tricks he was going to use. Its just that the Golden Apples were too much for her to ignore.

    • December 12, 2017 at 10:28 pmUnlikely

      Atalanta suffers from haemorrhoids.

    • December 13, 2017 at 11:08 amjustsomeaccount

      Ancient greek mythology is one giant degenerate hentai story.

    • December 14, 2017 at 1:28 ammarie-antoinette

      Yes. Not to mention that whole chasing apples thing was pretty OOC for her.

  • December 11, 2017 at 7:54 ambakato

    Some corrections:

    -Because his heel was hit, Achilles lost his invulnerability and his speed dropped by 60%.
    -Atalanta, being a heroic spirit, could have easily repelled the wraiths that made up Jack herself, but she kept them because of her character.
    -Brahmastra Kundala is an anti-country NP. It’s super costly in terms of mana, but Shirou rewired everyone’s lines so they can get mana from the grail.
    -Sieg also inherited Fran’s NP Bridal Chest and Galvanism skill, which allowed him to recycle the mana in the environment and replenish his own. This allowed him to spam Balmung against Karna’s Brahmastra.
    -Vasavi Shakti can only be used by forfeiting Kavacha and Kundala permanently. The armor is fused to Karna’s skin so removing it is equivalent to flaying himself. Understandably, the anime cut this out.
    -A command seal boosted Balmung was equivalent to Vasavi Shakti, but then it became a contest of willpower and that was no contest at all.

    • December 11, 2017 at 10:38 amTakaii

      Vasavi Shakti can only be used by forfeiting Kavacha and Kundala permanently. The armor is fused to Karna’s skin so removing it is equivalent to flaying himself. Understandably, the anime cut this out.

      Hearing that his NP requires so much sacrifice makes me actually believe the explosion we saw should have been even larger.

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:46 pmOldPilot

        Was Karna autistic?

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:53 pmgetchman

        pretty much, it especially shows in CCC

      • December 11, 2017 at 8:22 pmhaseo0408

        The Haging Gardens of Babylon are part Seminaris herself not of the outside world, part of the territory she ruled when alive so it makes that a Noble Phantasm that makes nuke look tame wouldn´t be enough to destroy from the inside. If Karna would have used that thing outdoors you can kiss most of Rumania goodbye.

  • December 11, 2017 at 9:39 amtanz

    I love the Fate franchise but the first episode was just such a tad disappointment for me. But I’ve always checked every episode post in this site to get me a reason to go back to it. Just looking at the screencaps made me think, wow, that animation is beautiful! Maybe this will be the only episode I will be watching.

    The directing and script was the major reason why I didn’t watch past the first episode, but the animation everyone’s talking about for this episode looked good enough for me to at least check out.

  • December 11, 2017 at 10:46 amSDFGS

    Honestly, I would rather Apocrypha look like this from the start. I have no problem with the battles looking like this because a) their movements are more fluid and human-like b) better choreography than previous episode battles (apart from Chiron vs. Achilles, the real only decent battle A-1 has animated with this series). Then again it probably wouldn’t have been able to fit within their budget because specifically animators from Studio Bones and 3Hz (since it was stated that they got people who were on Flip Flappers and Mob Psycho to work on this) worked on this episode for the most part.

    That being said, there still were issues with keyframes being wonky looking. No I’m not talking about In-between frames. Yes I realize stylization is the key word for this episode. But that doesn’t excuse just bad Key Frames. When a frame is on screen for more than a second and isn’t used for transition from Frame A-to-B, its a KeyFrame. There were A LOT of bad KeyFrames in the Karna vs Seig fight. Didn’t really have any problems with Jeanne, Achilles, & Atlanta. Its going to suck though if the animation returns to how it was for the rest of the series. Because they have A LOT of stepping up to do in order to top this weeks episode.

    • December 11, 2017 at 1:25 pmEnan84

      IMHO, a problem is that this animation style lead us near the uncanny valley. So sometimes we have the feeling of lacking detail or ugliness.

      • December 11, 2017 at 6:17 pmWhiteHairGirls

        Too get good staff you need money. Of course the talent is the deciding factor but lets not pretend that talented people come cheap.

    • December 12, 2017 at 8:54 pmSunny milk

      Honestly there isnt much contest this year..its prolly best

    • December 18, 2017 at 1:19 pmboingman

      The characters looking awkward more than once in this episode resulted in me not enjoying it as much, no matter how great the animation. The “tradeoff” was not worth it to me.

  • December 11, 2017 at 11:27 amPrincess_Irene

    Someone know which part was Bahi JD’s?

    • December 11, 2017 at 11:38 amDessa

      It’s probably part of Sieg and Karna’s fight before the latter activates his NP.

  • December 11, 2017 at 3:16 pmL002

    I forgot what that jewel is supposed to be in Karna’s chest.

    I am stumped about Kavacha and Kundala’s defense. They don’t seem that great.

    Anyway, if Alexandre Dumas can reproduce all the Noble Phantasms used, in this episode, then Fate/Strange Fake would be very interesting.

    • December 11, 2017 at 6:49 pmjeffcoatstephen

      They glossed over it, but Amakusa is powering all the Red Servants, and he’s got a direct connectio to the Grail and its near-infinite mana.

    • December 11, 2017 at 8:24 pmhaseo0408

      It´s part of Kavacha and Kundala and one of the proofs Surya (Sun God) gave to Karna that he was his true father, the other one is the earring on his left ear.

  • December 11, 2017 at 10:27 pmVaisaga

    How mad would Saber have been had she met Lion King?

    • December 11, 2017 at 10:30 pmMystery

      Pretty upset, most likely. She should probably be just as upset about her knights joining in committing genocide against pretty much everybody in the Levant region.

    • December 11, 2017 at 10:36 pmPolycell

      She’d be so mad that she’d tear off her ahoge right then and there.

    • December 11, 2017 at 10:45 pmExcalibur

      Not mad at all, just self-hating and pained. Because she sees a reflection of what she could have been or was. Not in the same way Saber Alter was, but in a different way.
      Lancer Arthuria’s entire interlude is about her being depressed and trying to stay away from people because she thinks she might end up the same as Lion King. The king is heartless, the king is ruthless, the king doesn’t understand people, Lion King is the heartless divine king that reflects this.
      To be clear Lancer Arthur you summon and Lion King are different, have slightly different backstories. Lion King has the same backstory as normal Arthuria, but Bedivere fucked up so she couldn’t die properly. While Lancer Arthuria just chose the spear from the start rather than Excalibur.

  • December 12, 2017 at 4:11 amDop.L

    Why do Rider class have the most number of versatile and useful as fuck NPs?

    • December 12, 2017 at 4:17 amJacquipuff

      In exchange, though, their own stats and skills are often (but not always) inferior to Sabers and Lancers.

    • December 12, 2017 at 4:25 amL’Imperatore

      Because their stats suck in exchange.

    • December 12, 2017 at 4:33 amIngramanX303

      Bro, most of Achilles’ NPs are useless because Higa can’t write for shit

      Comet form
      Supposed to make Achilles the fastest servant but is only barely faster than Karna
      Doesn’t work on divinity and divine constructs, which just about every top-tier Servant has. He wouldn’t need it against anything less in the first place
      Duel Field
      Needs his opponent to agree, which no sensible servant would if it disadvantaged them
      Protection of the Faith
      Already applied to his stats sheet.In other words, Achilles raw parameters (not factoring skill) would just be average without it.
      Does jackshit so we don’t know how strong it is besides being a B+ NP
      The only Noble Phantasm that actually warrants the hype.

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:40 amVaisaga

        I like how he’d completely shut down Emiya though.

      • December 12, 2017 at 4:45 amHaruhiToy


        Doesn’t work on divinity and divine constructs
        It does, but to a lesser degree that is contingent on the rank of whatever it’s warding against. For example, Medusa has divinity and would be able to hurt Achilles thanks to it, but because her divinity rank is so low her attacks would only be 25% effective or possibly even less.

        Duel Field

        Needs his opponent to agree
        He actually doesn’t, but he would refuse to use it unless he thought his opponent was cool with it, so practically there’s not much difference.

  • December 12, 2017 at 4:03 pmPolycell

    Yes, you stupid fuck. Or did you not know that his projection also traces the mastery that the original hero had with their weapon?

  • December 15, 2017 at 11:09 amstarss


    • December 15, 2017 at 1:05 pmWorldwidedepp

      in old days, this was nothing.. remind me of claymore and others

  • December 17, 2017 at 8:14 amMuhsum

    Astolfo a cute