Random Curiosity

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On Kaminejima, Suzaku wakes up to find himself with Anya and C.C., the former of whom reveals that she’s currently Marianne, the mother of Lelouch and Nunnally. Lelouch meanwhile is with his father inside place where the remains of the Sword of Akasha are, and he demands to know who killed his mother and why his father didn’t protect her. Charles finds it ironic that Lelouch would want the truth from others when Lelouch himself lied all the way there. Lelouch doesn’t try to deny it and instead paints lying as a natural thing that everyone does since they cannot walk around without personas. Charles disagrees, stating that personas disappear when lies are realized to be useless, and strife disappears as well as long as people understand each other. Lelouch sees this as a mere metaphysical theory, but Charles believes that it’ll become reality soon – that is the Ragnarok connection. Back in the cave on Kaminejima, C.C. describes the World of C to Suzaku as a collective unconsciousness, an assembly of hearts and memories, and a sea of metempsychosis. It is something that some people call “God”. C.C. goes on to explain to Suzaku that humans are masks worn by the collective unconsciousness, a window opened in the sea of hearts and memories. Their conversation is eventually interrupted by Marianne who needs C.C.’s help in order to go to where the Charles is, and Anya falls unconscious once Marianne leaves her body. Afterwards, C.C. tells Suzaku that they are similar in how they both want to die but cannot.

When Marianne appears before Lelouch, he is shocked and initially thinks that she’s an illusion, but she asserts that she’s real. With Marianne here, Charles finally decides to answer Lelouch’s question from earlier. He starts by explaining that he and V.V. were going through hell half a century ago when everyone was fighting and killing each other over the throne. Their mother was one such victim, and since Charles and V.V. hated the current world, they swore that they would create a world without lies. Marianne and C.C. agreed to that vow, but one night eight years ago, V.V. had called Marianne out because he thought that Charles had changed ever since he met her. V.V. felt that the two being happy in their understanding of each other was endangering the agreement he had with Charles, and that would leave V.V. by himself. He had then shot Marianne and had set up Nunnally as a witness, but what V.V. didn’t realize was that Anya was also in the room and had seen what happened. Marianne, however, had noticed the girl and had used her Geass power to hide herself inside Anya. There was still a way she could talk to C.C. though, and once C.C found out the truth, she left the religious organization to V.V. and disappeared. Charles meanwhile knew what happened, but when he talked with V.V. afterwards, he was lied to.

Lelouch can’t believe that his parents would place all the blame on V.V. who’s already dead, and he’s still sore about himself and Nunnally being sent to Japan as hostages. Charles claims that it was necessary in order to hide them from V.V., and he reveals that he also secretly moved Marianne’s corpse because as long as her body remained, it was possible for her to return to it. In order to protect everything, he rewrote Anya and Nunnally’s memories, and as proof that Nunnally wouldn’t ever get close to the truth, he made her unable to see. Marianne then explains that they realized that they couldn’t get 100% guarantee on their plan without C.C., and since she couldn’t persuade C.C., they had to make use of Lelouch. She and Charles believe that the success of the Ragnarok connection will cause such tragedies to disappear, and everyone can be their true selves. All this makes Lelouch realize that the war between Britannia and the Black Knight was in order to draw C.C. out, and he was merely a nuisance. It is at this moment that C.C. and Suzaku arrive in this world, and when Suzaku questions Charles about the world he’s trying to create, Charles claims that it’s the gentle world that Euphemia and Nunnally had wanted. And now that they’re all gathered, Charles is ready to go through with the plan and promises to grant C.C.’s wish afterwards.

Marianne is excited to see the sky around them shatter and turn into something much more mechanical looking because she believes that the Sword of Akasha will kill the gods. All they need now in order to start a new world is to combine the two engraved marks. Before that can happen though, Suzaku asks Lelouch why he tried to obtain the world. When Lelouch says that it was for Nunnally, Suzaku calls that an excuse and makes Lelouch admit that he fought for everything he wanted to protect. Suzaku suggests that he has to do something if he wants results, and Lelouch states that the means for that lead to the denial of something else. Turning to face Charles, Lelouch declares that he doesn’t approve of his father’s way of thinking. Lelouch feels that people don’t just lie just because of strife but also because they seek something. A world where everyone can be their true selves won’t change and is equivalent to a world of memories, and Lelouch doesn’t want that. When Marianne offers the possibility of reuniting with people who have died, Lelouch realizes that his parents believe that this is all a good thing. He thinks that them forcing their good intentions on others is no different from bad intentions, and the one thing clear to him right now is that his parents abandoned him and Nunnally.

Marianne tries to protest that this was to protect them, but Lelouch counters by questioning why they didn’t stop the war between Japan and Britannia. He believes that his parents gave priority to their plan and didn’t care about whether he and Nunnally was alive or dead, and he knows that the gentle world that his parents had talked about is gentle only to them, unlike the one Nunnally had hoped for which was gentle to other people. As for the fact that the Ragnarok connection has already begun, Lelouch takes off the contact lens hiding his Geass eye and declares himself Zero, the man of miracles. His Geass won’t work on his father, but Lelouch has figured out that there’s someone else here. He recalls that his father had said that the World of C was the will of mankind and that all people aren’t equal. When Charles states that the Power of the King cannot defeat the gods, Lelouch asserts that this isn’t about victory or defeat – it’s a wish. He asks the gods not to stop the progression of time and, as a Geass symbol appears in his other eye, he declares his desire for there to be a tomorrow. This succeeds in destroying the structure that was connected to Jupiter, and it has the added effect of causing Charles and Marianne to start to disappear.

Marianne doesn’t understand why C.C. isn’t disappearing as well since she had supported the plan, so C.C. apologizes and reveals that she had realized that Marianne and Charles were acting only for themselves. In response, Marianne tries to claim that it was for Nunnally and Lelouch’s as well, but Lelouch questions if his parents even knew the meaning of Nunnally’s smile. Since they don’t understand, Lelouch explains that Nunnally knew that there were things that she couldn’t do due to how she couldn’t see or walk, and her smile was that of gratitude. He goes on to accuse his parents of not seeing reality, and the thing that still angers him most is how they abandoned him and Nunnally. In one last desperate ploy, Charles grabs his son’s neck and warns Lelouch that what awaits is Schneizel’s world. Charles feels that good and bad intentions are both sides of the same card, but Lelouch doesn’t care about all this and denies his father’s world. His parents then disappear, and afterwards, Lelouch asks C.C. if she’s going as well. C.C. points out that he wanted her to be smiling when she died, and she questions Lelouch and Suzaku back about what they intend to do now that they’ve chosen to advance time instead of Charles and Marianne’s plan.

One month later, the Britannian royal family gathers for an internationally broadcast announcement from the Emperor. To everyone’s surprise, Lelouch appears instead and claims the throne, declaring himself the 99th Emperor of Britannia. They are happy to see him, but they think this is a joke, so Lelouch reveals that he killed his father. When Lelouch’s siblings try to have him removed, Suzaku jumps down from the ceiling and knocks away all the guards. Lelouch then introduces Suzaku as his new knight, the Knight of Zero, but since the royal family still doesn’t take him seriously, Lelouch uses his Geass to make them all acknowledge him. Meanwhile, in Cambodia, Schneizel is happy to hear that Lelouch has returned and thinks that this resolves all the current problems. He doesn’t care if Lelouch gets everything, including Britannia, because he knows that the big problem is still ahead.


Yikes, talk about making things unnecessarily complex and turning everything upside down – a friend even commented to me that it felt like the writers were trying their best to outdo Evangelion. I got a headache trying to make sense of some of this stuff, and it doesn’t help that they left much of it open to interpretation – things like how exactly the Sword of Akasha was going to slay the gods, how the new gentle world was going to make them all become one, how Lelouch used his Geass on the collective unconsciousness/Jupiter, and the list goes on. One of the things they did make clear was Charles’ motivation – wanting a world with no lies because he hated the current world due to all the death in his childhood – and I have to say that it felt rather juvenile and disappointing for someone of his stature. I thought it’d be more grandiose, but it really comes down to his childhood and how his mother was killed. Take that away, and I doubt any of this would have ever happened.

Along those same lines though, I wouldn’t say that Marianne and Charles are evil so much as misguided and a bit selfish. Lelouch detests them for abandoning him and Nunnally, but I have a hard time seeing them as the true villains of this series. Then again, unless Schneizel steps up or you count Lelouch himself, I doubt there will ever be any such villain. What bothers me is that this episode is likely all the backstory and explanation we’re ever going to get despite much of the series building to this point. And *poof*, just like that, it’s over and Lelouch is now Emperor. The pace of it all makes Marianne and Charles seem like mere plot devices used to give Lelouch the throne. Speaking of which, the thought occurred to me afterwards that this episode could have been the finale of R2, and Lelouch becoming emperor would have been a nice cliffhanger for a third series. Instead, the story continues, and there are four more episodes to wrap it all up. It’s probably not too late for a Mai-HiME style reset…

August 31, 2008 at 6:06 am
  • September 4, 2008 at 5:09 pmWingZero zxt

    @Grimjaw i say one thing ang everyone responds Kallen IS important! how cool is that my subtle remark caused this much response! btw guys i also DO think kallen is important but at the same time she seems to be taking a back seat to everything! at the very least you can say that they arent getting ready to kill her off because there hanst been an episode dedicated to her other than the fact she got captured. HOWEVER her ending up with Gino concerns me!!! since we all know one way or another that Gino will end up with the blakc knights (there are no spoiler tags cos its bin mentioned a bunch of times, only the ones with the best stuff to say blog this late into the week [ill exclude myself!]and since we know the tristan gets an upgrade and Gino hates schniziel as much as we all do then is obvious he ends up with the OotBk!) and him and Kallen have a randomly good relationship (which better be explained ina picture book of some kind!) its reasonably possible that she will end up with him!! hopefully thats just the writers trying to scare us into to worrying! More importantly the Tristan (whos name i could never remember up til now!) has 2 Giant pink swords not Totally unlike bismarks (it sorta reminds me of sword Impulse from Seed Destiny)

    @JordiBlau LOl regarding the ending has anyone else noticed that Nina is the only character who still looks ugly in the ending. all the other seem to be well designed (to the point where i would really like drawings from the ending sequences of Code Geass to be a poster at the very least!) but nina EWWW!(even LLOYD looks Dapa!) btw im not a hentai fan or an anime girl lover (which is why it took me this long to notice this point)

    Also every time i see the pictue of shirley.. Thats when im saddened by her death the most! its such a moving picture!

  • September 4, 2008 at 5:16 pmshamaticgrl

    yay someone mentioned about C.C outfit. I really don’t like that outfit it’s too plain. her new one was pretty. T_T

  • September 4, 2008 at 5:17 pmKalessin

    @WingZero zxt
    I don’t think that it’s clear at all that Gino will be joining the OotBK. I’m aware of no actually spoilers on the matter. The only support that I’ve seen for it is the OP (which could mean something but might not). He certainly wasn’t happy to see that Lelouch had taken the throne. Granted, there’s every chance that he had no clue who Lelouch really was before that point, but still, it doesn’t look like he’s thinking that he should side with Lelouch and Suzaku. It looks more like he considers Lelouch to be a usurper and patricide and that he must, therefore, be opposed. Schneizel considered getting rid of the emperor, but he didn’t actually succeed and he didn’t try and take the throne after the emperor disappeared, so I could easily see how Gino would side with Schneizel over Lelouch. Certainly, his reaction to Lelouch taking the throne supports that. It’s certainly not impossible that Gino will decide to side with Lelouch, but I seriously question it.

    As for Gino X Kallen, Gino has shown far more interest in Suzaku than Kallen – even when he was talking to Kallen. His main interest in Kallen (other than finding out more about Suzaku from her) appears to be an interest in fighting her with knightmares. Gino X Kallen certainly isn’t impossible, but I don’t think that there’s much support for it. If she were to end up with anyone other than Lelouch, Gino is probably the best candidate, but he’s still not a very good one.

  • September 4, 2008 at 5:51 pmGeekodot

    One thing that worries me and have been worrying me through the whole series is when we get the story about Naoto (Kallen’s brother). I’ve been waiting since season 1 for it and with this next episode, it’s their last chance. Any later than that and it would just be lame :P

  • September 4, 2008 at 6:06 pmKalessin

    The writers have had moments with both Kallen and C.C. where they were obviously building a relationship with Lelouch. Shirley did as well (though arguably not as many), but she’s dead now. I think that it’s fairly obvious that both C.C. and Kallen care a great deal about Lelouch. In the case of Kallen, it’s obvious that she has a major crush on him. In the case of C.C., I don’t think that it’s quite as obvious, but I still think that it’s pretty clear that she has some kind of romantic interest in him. Both girls are fairly close to him. I think that they’d both like to be with him. From that standpoint, both Kallen and C.C. stand a chance of being Lelouch’s love interest. Certainly, they’re the women who are by far the closest to him at this point. The major question is Lelouch himself.

    He obviously cares about both women, but he doesn’t tend to show his emotions much – particularly romantic ones. As such, it’s really hard to gauge how interested he is in them romantically. However, I think that he’s obviously interested in them enough that it would not be at all out of place for him to choose go pursue a romantic relationship with either of them. What’s unclear is whether he will.

    So, I don’t think that it makes any sense to say that there’s no way that he’ll be with Kallen or that there’s no way that he’ll be with C.C. However, it’s also stretching things to say that he definitely end up with either of them. It really could go either way.

    As for the chances of having Lelouch X Kallen, all Lelouch has to do is say that he loves her and they’re together. I think that that’s really all there is to it. It’s totally up to Lelouch. She definitely wants him so it’s just a question of whether he wants her. As such, I think that there’s a very good chance that they’ll end up together. But, it does rely on Lelouch actually feeling that strongly about her, so we’ll definitely have to wait and see.

    As for the chances of having Lelouch X C.C., that situation is quite a bit more complicated. I certainly don’t think that it’s as simple as Lelouch telling her that he’s in love with her and she’s his. For one, there’s the immortality issue and two, she’s just plain a lot more complicated emotionally-speaking than Kallen is.

    I don’t think that Lelouch would have any problem marrying an immortal C.C. I also don’t think that she’d have a problem with living with Lelouch rather than dying. Her true wish is to be genuinely loved (even if it’s more of a subconscious one) rather than to die. So, her wish to be loved would override her wish to die. However, if she’s still immortal, then ultimately, Lelouch will die and she’ll be alone again. Given how big a deal the writers made of C.C. being immortal being a bad thing, I’d expect them to want to fix it. That means 1 of 3 things:

    1. She dies (no Lelouch X C.C.).
    2. She loses her code or seals it as before, losing her memories again and dies later. (there would probably be no Lelouch X C.C. since it would be the slave girl version of C.C.).
    3. She loses her code in some other manner that renders her mortal but doesn’t steal her memory (possible Lelouch X C.C.).

    Number 1 is a distinct possibility, but we don’t know of any way of killing C.C. other than having Lelouch taking her code (which she wouldn’t want him to do and I can’t see them doing. Lelouch would search for another way to fix her rather than taking her code). I think that number 2 would be totally lame (been there, done that – if they were going to have her that way in the long run, why bother fixing her in the first place?). Number 3 would be my preferred scenario, but just like killing her without making Lelouch immortal, they’d need to come up with something new. That being the case, it’s probably not that much more unlikely than C.C. dying since they’d need to come up with something new in that case as well.

    Now, assuming that the immortality issue is out of the way, it’s still not like all Lelouch has to do is tell C.C. that he loves her and they’re together. She’s just too complicated emotionally. She has to actually acknowledge that she’s in love with Lelouch and wants to be with him. I’m not sure how much she’s really acknowledged it to
    herself – let alone Lelouch. She certainly appeared to be denying to Marianne previously that she was interested in Lelouch and I get the impression that she’s generally not all that open with herself about how she feels about things. She’s rather closed emotionally. So, I think that it’s up in the air as to how much she’s admitted to herself about her feelings for Lelouch. In either case, however, that still leaves the matter of her admitting it to Lelouch.

    All that being the case, Lelouch is likely going to have to do something to make her open up or something is going to have to happen to make her freak out enough to make her emotions come to the surface (and she shows her emotions even less than Lelouch). So, she may want to be with Lelouch, but due to how closed she is emotionally, it could take a lot for her to actually open up even if he wants her to.

    So, basically what it comes down to is that Kallen X Lelouch has a high chance of happening – if only because all it takes is Lelouch going for it – but since Lelouch is so close emotionally and we don’t know exactly how he really feels, it’s hard to say whether it will happen. For C.C. X Lelouch to happen, the immortality issue has to be dealt with (but it probably has to be dealt with anyway) and C.C. has to open up (in addition to Lelouch deciding to go for it). So, it has a decent chance of happening, but it’s going to take a lot more for it to happen than it would for Kallen X Lelouch.

    Both pairings stand a decent chance of happening but both have definite obstacles as well (though C.C. X Lelouch has much larger obstacles than Kallen X Lelouch). And, of course, there’s the question of whether Lelouch being with one precludes him being with the other. Normally, it would, but his father had multiple wives, so we can’t rule out the possibility that he’d end up with both girls. Of course, we can’t really rule out the possibility that he’s not going to end up with either (though if they were really going to do that, I would have expected even less romantic development over all). We can’t really rule at anything at this point with those two pairings. We’re really just going to have to wait and see.

  • September 4, 2008 at 6:31 pmJordiBlau

    Well there might be one other person able to take the code from C.C., which is Bismarck (I don’t see it happening though) but it would open up a C.C. x Lelouch ending.

    Next episode I want to know what his geass is about. I just noticed that in the extended preview Bismarcks right is open, and it shows a geass mark. He looks like he’s going crazy..

  • September 4, 2008 at 6:32 pmJordiBlau

    make that his left eye..

  • September 4, 2008 at 6:52 pmKalessin

    Well, if C.C. simply loses her code to someone else (be it Lelouch, Bismark, or whoever), then we’ll just get slave C.C. again. If you go back and watch where V.V. loses his code, you’ll see that he actually lost his memory as well at that point (though it’s not quite as obvious as it was with C.C.). So, no matter who takes her code, unless they find a way to do things differently or restore her memory once her code has been taken, her losing her code means that she loses her memory and that would almost certainly ruin any chance of Lelouch X C.C.

    Not to mention, if someone other than Lelouch took her code, then they’d have to worry about how to kill him. And if Lelouch took it, it’s not really any different from C.C. keeping it other than the fact that C.C. would then have lost her memory and Lelouch would be without his Geass. You’re still stuck with one of the main characters being immortal.

    Really, they’re going to have to come up with something interesting to get around the whole immortality issue since the writers seem to have made it something that the main characters are going to want to get rid of and yet, normally, it can only be passed around, not gotten rid of.

  • September 4, 2008 at 7:13 pmJordiBlau

    You’re right.. Forgot about V.V., he did lose his memory at that point.

  • September 4, 2008 at 8:07 pmWingZero zxt

    wat episode was that again?
    Bisark is goona rock also i think due to the cross wing formation hes fighting a supped up Tristan llyod must of done it! if rakshta had done it the wings would prob be pink or red or whatever the colourIS!

  • September 4, 2008 at 8:56 pmKalessin

    @WingZero zxt
    Which episode are you talking about? the one where V.V. loses his code? I think that he loses it at the end of episode 14 and C.C. talks to him in 15 (which is when you get to see that he lost his memory).

  • September 4, 2008 at 9:36 pmRemmell

    I was noticing something about the extended preview for episode 22. It seems to be building up to this meeting with Kallen.
    It’s just in the extended preview you can see Kallen looking up(00:06), most likely to Lelouch. Later you see Lelouch serious, but he suddenly looks left and downward(00:12). Perhaps he just noticed her there. His expression changed. he goes from serious to a softer more pleased expression. At the end of the preview we see the scene of them walking together(00:25).
    I find it a bit interesting that it seems these three scenes appear are related to each other. The scenes are split apart and build up.
    That should be an interesting conversation. I can’t think of any reason why she would work against him. They are in Ashford. There is the trend that most things positive happen at Ashford. This episode looks to be the calm before the story. Much like with last season. There was the Ashford episode where it looked like everything would go well, then the twist of Euphy being accidentally Geassed.
    I already know what the twist is going to be in this season. It’s assured that Schneizel will attack with an incredible force to throw a wrench in everything positive that seems to be happening.

    I noticed a trend in the episode summaries. At least the ones that are accompanied with pictures. I did a posting in a forums about it in detail, but it does have a spoiler involving the next episode. Though you might not catch it unless you can’t read Japanese.
    Show Spoiler ▼

    Check it out. If my theory is right it could mean Kallen will have a pretty big role to this event. Could be a positive or a negative one.

  • September 4, 2008 at 10:15 pmRemmell


    About your pairing post.
    Don’t you find it odd that C.C. is back in her prison clothes? Not only that but she’s still literally hiding in the shadows. Why is she still hiding? No one is hunting her any more. She was never known to the public as a member of the Black Knights.
    If she was going to play a big role to Lelouch why keep hiding her? It would look kind of odd for the Emperor to be seen walking around in public with a woman in prisoner clothes.
    We also learned that while C.C. didn’t betray Lelouch. She knew about Charles’ plan and Marianne’s death all along and never told him. All this time she watched as he started a war and killed his siblings. She knew this was about finding his mother’s killer.

    The show has teased at Kallen all season. She’s known to have never had a first kiss and there were two near misses with Lelouch within three episodes. Both Shirley and C.C. had kisses with Lelouch. Kallen is a popular character. Why leave her out?
    Kallen’s entire development this season has been about learning more and more about Lelouch. She’s hardly done anything else. It was Kallen who brought up the topic of Lelouch with Nunnally. That surprised Nunnally. Kallen spent the lions share of her time in prison learning about the kind of gentle brother Lelouch was to Nunnally. Silly details like how he played Santa for his sister. If you see the latest Picture Drama. Kallen has all these pictures of Lelouch. they are suppose to be surveillance for the mission, but most are just of Lelouch doing common things. Kallen points out one picture particular to ask C.C. about. It’s an image of Lelouch playing the piano. C.C. explain that Lelouch learned to play the piano when he was three years old. How would that be relevant to the mission? The whole scene was just about Kallen learning more about Lelouch’s past and personality from C.C. As they are going through the pictures the same music plays as was in the scene when Kallen fell on top of Lelouch and they almost kissed.
    There has only been episode where her character hasn’t appeared. Two where where she didn’t have a speaking role.
    Kallen was also the only person who went to look for Lelouch when Nunnally was made governor. C.C. just sat around in the sub talking with Marianne.
    See my posting right above that may hint that Kallen may get to shine next episode.

    I just wonder if nothing comes of this build up. What was the point of all these scenes and her character’s entire development this season? It just feels to go way too deep then for just loyalty or friendship. She even was willing to die with Lelouch. All she wanted to know is what she was to him. She was pleading, ‘Come on! Please, Tell me!”. Lelouch then lies to her. Breaking her heart, but saving her life.
    Like I said. What was the point of so many scenes if it leads to nothing at all?

  • September 4, 2008 at 11:04 pmKalessin

    On some level, I could say the same of C.C. in that they’ve built up her relationship with Lelouch over time. However, in her case, you could at least argue that it’s had a definite impact already. After all, it was thanks to that build up that she resisted the emperor back in episode 15. Still, I question that that’s that relationship building was leading to, so I’m not about to write off Lelouch X C.C. at this point.

    However, you bring up a totally valid point that it would seem rather pointless to have built up Lelouch X Kallen so much and then do nothing with it. Given that fact, Lelouch X Kallen seems very likely.

    Most of what I was discussing in my previous paring post was the likelihood of either pairing coming about due to how the girls feel about Lelouch, how he feels about them, and how easy it would be for the to get together. I didn’t focus that much on the build up other than to point out that there was plenty of build up for both.

    At this point, I think that Kallen X Lelouch is very likely. As far as feasibility goes, as I said, about all it takes is Lelouch telling her that he likes her and you’ve got Kallen X Lelouch. As far as likelihood goes, between the fact that it’s so feasible and all the build up that they’ve done around Kallen X Lelouch this season which would likely go to waste otherwise, Kallen X Lelouch seems highly likely.

    C.C. X Lelouch is rather less feasible as I pointed out. However, I think that they both like each other enough for it to come about. Even if C.C. had been involved in the emperor’s plans, she sided with Lelouch in the end. The main gripe that he’s likely to have is that she didn’t tell him more before, but it’s not like she’s ever been very informative. Given the build up that they’ve done over time, I would think that C.C. X Lelouch would be quite likely, but due to the obstacles in the way that I outlined before, it seems rather less likely than Kallen X Lelouch. But they’re primarily obstacles that they’re going to have to get around anyway (it’s not like they’re going to leave C.C. immortal given how big a deal they made out of her being immortal being bad), so I don’t really think that that rules out much.

    At this point, my guess would be that we’re either going to get Kallen X Lelouch or we’re going to get both Kallen X Lelouch and C.C. X Lelouch. It’s rather hard to call at this point – particularly since we have no idea whatsoever about what they’re going to do about C.C. being immortal.

    Now, I am worried about why C.C. is looking so sad and why on earth she’s back in that straight jacket. Of course, she wore it an awful lot in season 1, so it’s not like she’s made much effort to avoid wearing it. She’s never really been big about being in the spotlight either, so the fact that she’s not showing herself publicly with Lelouch doesn’t mean much (though it might make her that much more reticent to actually get together with Lelouch since he’s emperor). It’s Lelouch that she’s always cared about.

    Regardless, however, you have to wonder what she thinks about the current developments and what her plans are. Once she ditched the emperor and Marianne, she was pretty much floating around and didn’t find much purpose until she met up with Lelouch. And now that the emperor and Marianne are gone, about the only thing that’s going to keep her from just wanting to die somehow is her feelings for Lelouch.

    In any case, this post is getting insanely long as too many of my posts do, so I think that I’ll wrap it up. I think that both pairings are highly possible – if not highly probable. Kallen X Lelouch is more likely from the standpoint that a lot of character development would be otherwise wasted. Lots of character development has also gone into C.C. X Lelouch, but that has had a direct enough impact on the plot that it wouldn’t be wasted in quite the same way if it was never fully realized. So, like I said, I expect that we’ll either get Kallen X Lelouch or both Kallen X Lelouch and C.C. X Lelouch (would that become Kallen X Lelouch X C.C. ? ;) ).

  • September 5, 2008 at 12:03 amRemmell


    Yeah, I’m not trying to say that C.C.xLelouch can’t happen at all. I think you’d have to be a blind idiot to not see the possibility behind it.
    I was more just trying to question that if Kallen doesn’t come out on top, or close to it; what was the point of her entire season then?
    Some people question if Lelouch cares about her. I remember in the episode Kallen got captured. Out of everyone on the Ikaruga it was Leluoch who panicked and called out her her. That surprised Kallen, everyone on the bridge, and even C.C. looked shocked by his outburst. Against the advice of Diethard. Lelouch risked near defeat in a haphazard attempt at a rescue.
    She was also the first thing he asked about when Xingke killed the Eunuch Generals. He talked about Suzaku taking what was his.
    If you listen to the previews, extended or regular, from Kallen’s capture. They are all Lelouch’s voice. In those Kallen gets a mention in almost all of them. In the extended preview of episode 18. It was translated for me. At the end he talks about Nunnally, but after Nunnally is mentioned Lelouch hollers out, “I must save Kallen!”.
    After her rescue Lelouch gives Kallen an unprompted apology for not coming sooner and asks for her forgiveness. When was the last time he’s ever apologized to anyone?
    I’m just pointing out that there are ‘signs’ for Lelouch’s interest. Just unclear if those are romantic ones.
    Every romantic scene these two have ever had all season is always interrupted by something. MAYBE this is the way the writers intended to build their relationship slowly so it wouldn’t feel mushy, and save the conclusion to the end? That’s just my guess though.
    Like when C.C. interrupted Lelouch while Kallen was on top of him. She’s just happens to bring up her hot sauce. She asks herself out loud, “What should I do?” Kallen responds with “What should we do?”, but in a tone that implies she’s not thinking about hot sauce. That’s when Kaguya chimes in over the intercom.
    What would be the reason behind all of this? The scene feels a little too strong to just be a joke scene. Even the music was tender and emotional.

    I just found it odd that C.C. is hiding in the shadows again. No one is hunting her anymore. She was hiding from Charles. The only thing we don’t know about C.C. now is her name. Every other question about her has been answered. The fact she’s in prisoner clothes tells me she wont be out in public with Lelouch now. They had a month. They couldn’t just give her a dress? She had that nice white one at the end of season one.

    I agree that C.C. immortality is a big obstacle. He made a promise to her that she would die with a smile. The only way that could happen is if Lelouch was to take C.C. Code. The immortality is already a problem. Right now Lelouch and Kallen and Suzaku are all 18 years old going on 19. C.C. still has the body of a 16 year old. Biologically they have two years ahead of her. Not like age differences make much difference in this series. No one batted an eye about a 30 year old man marrying a 13 year old girl.
    It’s not like Lelouch could become immortal with C.C. There is only the one Code since he destroyed Charles.
    I guess there is also the possibility that C.C. could seal her Code again and she would be mortal again, but with the mind of a 10 year old slave girl. There is the possibility she could go to Ashford, get educated, make friends, and finally get the giant pizza. Problem with this one. Would that mean the C.C. we know would just be trapped for eternity in the World of C? That’s not very nice, or would she pass away when the mortal C.C. does?
    I tried to think of a way that Lelouch gets C.C.’s Code and then seals it himself somehow. Yes, he would lose all the memories he’s had up to the point he got the power, but the Geass would be gone from the world. The problem is that he would have to kill her to get her Code. Is it even possibly to just seal your Code at will? It would just seem horrid that Lelouch would take her life. To me it would feel nicer for the young C.C. to return and live a happy mortal life. I just don’t see how you could get that without the C.C. we know being trapped in the World of C. That’s not pleasant either.
    The immortality issue is confusing.

  • September 5, 2008 at 12:33 amKalessin

    It’s definitely odd that C.C. is back in the straight jacket (I would have thought that it would be long gone. It’s the first time that she’s worn it this season I think), but she kept on wearing it in season 1 long after she had other clothes to wear. Maybe she likes it for some reason. Still, it’s weird. What I find more worrisome is the fact that she’s so obviously sad. I have to wonder why.

    Personally, I don’t think that the 16 year body is that big a deal given that the person inside it is hundreds of years old (though the older Lelouch gets, the weirder it would be). However, if she did become mortal, then presumably she’d age and that problem would go away. However, the only way that we’ve been presented with thus far for someone with a code to truly lose that code in a manner that no one else got it was getting turned into pink sparkles by the World of C. The only other way to not really have a code (though they don’t actually lose it) is for it to be sealed away (which is arguably a huge plot hole since if it’s that easy to become mortal again, you’d think that all the Geass people who wanted to die would do it). In either case, however, the person loses their memories. If we are to have a mortal C.C. with all her memories, then we’re going to need a new way for her code to be disposed of. And, of course, we have no way of knowing whether the writers have come up with such a way.

    Assuming that no such way exists, I think that the most likely scenario is that after discussing it with Lelouch (and possibly even after they made their feelings clear to one another), she locks away her code, becoming mortal and losing her memory, thus forever preventing anyone from gaining a Geass (assuming that the seal never gets broken, of course). If that happens, I find it highly unlikely that we’ll get C.C. X Lelouch (though C.C. may very well continue to hang out with him in such a case). It would, however, give her the opportunity to have a fresh start on life and eventually die of old age, so as tragic is it might be, it wouldn’t be all bad.

    Basically, given the fact that the writers have clearly shown that immortality is a bad thing in the world of Code Geass, either they’re going to find a way to kill her in spite of her code, they’re going to find a way to free her of her code without her losing her memories, or they’re going to have her seal her code up and then either die or (more likely) just live until she dies of old age. So, any chance of C.C. X Lelouch pretty much hangs on whether or not there’s another way to deal with her immortality problem since I can’t believe that they’re going to leave her immortal in the end and I have a hard time believing that they’re going to pair up Lelouch with the slave girl version of C.C. (then you get a 10 year old mind in a 16 year old body – though she’d age in that case).

    And as for Kallen X Lelouch, again, I totally agree that it would be a big waste of character development if it never happened. Also, Lelouch has shown definite signs of caring about her. What he hasn’t done is make it clear that he cares about her romantically. However, one could argue that the only people he’s shown anywhere near that emotion towards are the three women that he’s had as potential love interests (Shirley, Kallen, and C.C.) and Nunnally. That would tend to imply that he cares more about Kallen than he would someone who was simply a close friend. In either case, however, I think that we’ll get to find out in the next episode how he really feels about Kallen (if nothing else, she seems pretty determined to get it out of him at this point).

  • September 5, 2008 at 1:16 amRemmell


    There is the question about what answer Kallen wants out of Lelouch. I don’t think it will be whether or not he betrayed the Black Knights. The fact that Kallen is out in the open at Ashford in her Black Knights clothes tells me that she’s no longer a wanted person in Japan. Most likely Lelouch calls for an end to the war and frees Japan. If he frees Japan like they always wanted, how could she possibly believe he betrayed them. He just handed them their dream.
    I’ll be interested to see if Lelouch called Kallen to meet him at Ashford, if Kallen found him there on her own, or if she remembered that Lelouch asked her to join him at Ashford once the war was over.
    In that Extended Preview I linked to. Lelouch looks rather serious as he’s talking to someone. Suddenly he looks down at to the left. I’m pretty sure he just noticed Kallen watching him from below. His expression becomes softer. It’s like she just caught his eyes and he didn’t expect her there.

    There was an audio drama that explained why C.C. wore that prisoner clothes. She told Lelouch was that she felt like it suited her. A person trapped in time and alone. Hearing this irritates Lelouch and he goes to his computer to order her a dress. I think it’s the white one she ends up wearing.
    I don’t know if we will get our answer in this coming episode, but it stands a good chance.

  • September 5, 2008 at 1:41 amKalessin

    Well, she definitely wears the straight jacket even after she started wearing other stuff, but she does wear it less and less as season 1 progressed and I think that this is the first time that she’s worn it in season 2. If she wore it before because she felt that it suited here because she was trapped in time and alone, that doesn’t say good things about her current emotional state if she’s taken to wearing it again. In either case, I can totally see Lelouch getting annoyed about her feeling that way and getting her new clothes. That sounds like it could be a funny scene to listen to (maybe Bandai will continue to translate drama CD’s like they did with the first one – I can hope).

    As for Kallen, I thought that it was pretty clear that the answer she wanted from Lelouch was for the question she asked him right before he lied to make her leave him and live (that is, she wanted to know what she was to him). Certainly freeing Japan should make the OotBK happier with him even if they don’t decide to trust him outright. In Kallen’s case, however, it would probably be enough to make her trust him like she did before. She’s so loyal to him that it takes a lot to really shake her and given that kind of reason to trust him, I find it hard to believe that she wouldn’t.

    Show Spoiler ▼

    In either case, I think that we can expect that Japan will be at least partially – if not totally – free quite soon and that Lelouch will make some sort of alliance with his old allies even if he doesn’t end up leading them again.

  • September 5, 2008 at 1:43 amKalessin

    You know, it’ll be funny if Kallen becomes Empress because then not only will the Emperor of Britannia have married one of the numbers but an Eleven! Given what’s been happening in Japan, I think that it’s safe to say that the Elevens are the most rebellious of the numbers. And, of course, on top of marrying an Eleven, he’d be marrying a known terrorist! That would look entertaining on the world stage.

  • September 5, 2008 at 3:47 amWingZero zxt

    Even if he did hed just have to geass it aaway!

  • September 5, 2008 at 3:49 amWingZero zxt

    also it would be funny cos then shed be bck to wearing dresses that make her boobs double in size every episode if she startss now the gurens cockpit will need resizing by episode 24!

  • September 5, 2008 at 5:34 amRemmell

    Show Spoiler ▼

  • September 5, 2008 at 10:02 amWingZero zxt


  • September 5, 2008 at 10:07 amWingZero zxt


  • September 5, 2008 at 8:21 pmKalessin

    Show Spoiler ▼

    And yes, Lelouch looks way overdressed in the preview. His Zero outfit was way better. We can only hope that the new outfit is temporary (be it just for formal occasions or whatever)….

  • September 6, 2008 at 3:02 amGrimjaww

    I’ve been thinking about it for days, and the only way I can see Lelouch gaining the respect or power of the Black Knights again is if he gives them Japan without any strings attached. But even then I’m still a bit skeptical since they think he massacred the Japanese on purpose.

    Anyone have ideas on another way he can gain their trust again?

  • September 6, 2008 at 3:56 amJordiBlau

    Wouldn’t it be more logical for Kallen next episode, to ask if and why he ordered Euphie.. And not what he feels for her. I know a lot of people are looking for possible pairings. But since she’s always felt strong about Japan and she didn’t know that he ordered euphie when he told her to live on, wouldn’t it be the most natural answer that she would demand of him at this moment.

    When she was in the Guren last episode, she had a bit of an off look. Like there was something bothering her, she looked pretty pissed. It wasn’t really a look of someone who is going to ask another person how he feels about her. My guess is, that before there is going to be any development between those too, she wants this issue cleared.

    But the question is, will Lelouch be honest about it. If he dies the same as when Suzaku asked him about it all, that would be it for Lelouch x Kallen.

  • September 6, 2008 at 3:59 amJordiBlau

    If he tells her the same as when Suzaku asked him about it all… (not died, mistyped)

  • September 6, 2008 at 4:17 amminikui

    >im fairly certain it was Eva but in that series didnt the mechs bleed?? that was the first thing that put me off!!

    because the EVAs aren’t just simple robots, they also have hands, eyes, teeth … and a “personality” (rejecting the pilot, or going crazy and not listening to the pilot)

    >Really, Evangelion is one of those shows that many people either love or love to hate. >Personally, I think that you should avoid it. It’s good, but not all that good, and I >think that your time would be better spent elsewhere. But I’m sure that plenty of other >people will tell you that it’s a must see.

    I agree. I think EVA is a must see, but only if you are interested in “deep” series that are more about the character’s problemes and also if you can relate to the characters (else you might find them annoying). The whole idea is very similar to this episode of Code Geass, only treated very differently and imho a lot better – but then those that prefer easy to digest, action-based shows as CG(even if I thought that the fights in EVA were a lot more interesting) might prefer this version, which is so much shorter ;)
    But for those there is still the new movie, which is easier to digest than the TV series and skips pretty many of Shinji’s depressive moments. and it’s pure eye (and ear-)-candy.

  • September 6, 2008 at 4:29 amMax

    I can’t see Kellen having any role with Lelouch’s Britannia. There are so many things that he has done in the past. This recent revelation will make it very difficult for Kallen to want to have a relationship with him. This might be way too much for Kallen to bear.

    If nothing happens between Kallen and Lelouch, then the only other person who might finally step in is Milly Ashford. Perhaps Milly is Lelouch’s true love interest. I can’t see how C.C. would ever become a wife of Lelouch. But we’ll see how episode 22 turns out.

  • September 6, 2008 at 6:05 amlilu

    I don’t see any love between Kallen and Lelouch. I think the only love for Lelouch we saw was Shirley.

  • September 6, 2008 at 6:49 amsaku

    We will get answers tomorrow with a plot twist too prolly…

  • September 6, 2008 at 7:17 amWingZero zxt

    TO BE FAIR MINIKUI whether a show is deep or not is not in question! i cant stand shows which are deep for the sake of being deep! where characters have problems like they do in eastenders and it takes them just as long to ever find resolutions to them because whilst they are geniuses/ace pilots/mech desginers etc… they are also sociallly retarded!!! Although im the one which hasnt seen Eva i feel that code geas made sense because if I were gonna lead a double life nd lot to take over the world whilst attending school thats how I would do it!
    And this whole business of the mech bleeding and what not. All i know is that there is somthing fundamentally pointless and flawed about advancing techonlogy to the stage where you can create a giant robot mecha but it has similar flaws and failngs of a human being which make us reasonably unviable as weapons in the first place! what kind of scum would pilot somthing or use a weapon that feels pain when its shot at! its the freaking pokemon mentality! You maky say its deep and to be honest i will give it another shot (if i can find it in this country but series which are deep (Code Geass aint deep btw there were no profound problems in any of them the main characters where just sociopaths!) have to make sense on all levels both the character dynamics and the science fiction aswell as the where the show ends up! Thats why eureka 7 annoyed me! for similar reasons that EVA did but i didnt find out the mechs where bilogical in nature til towards the end and homing lazers ?!?!?!?!

    @Lilu seriously i dont even think lelouch loved shirley all that much until just before the last minute i just think he felt Super guilty!

  • September 6, 2008 at 9:17 amminikui

    that’s why I put “” around the word, I didn’t know how to express it, but you did understand what I meant. The characters in EVA have psychological problems, and especially the main character can be really wearisome if you aren’t very patient and don’t care about his problems. (The other characters in the series aren’t necessarily understanding either, so you can relate to them as well maybe xD ). I only wanted to make clear the difference between EVA and CG – EVA is a lot like CG R2 episode 21 (eventhough it includes many other things as well). So if this episode appeals to you, you might like it. If this episode “gave you a headache”, EVA might not be your cup of tea, unless you enjoy having headaches ^^

    >series which are deep have to make sense on all levels >both the character dynamics and >the science fiction aswell

    Well, EVAs aren’t necessarily perfect – technology in EVA isn’t as advanced as f.ex. in CG. It was already mentioned that EVAs can only move on their own for 5 minutes. So it does fit together imho. Also they don’t really have any “ace pilots”, at least not the main character. But the EVAs don’t feel pain, it’s the pilot that feels the pain =) And of course, the true nature of the EVAs is part of the plot as well, so it isn’t revealed right from the start. (Eventhough you can already see his hands in the second fight – and that scene was really shocking imho). Concerning character dynamics you’ll just have to see for yourself, if you like it or not ^^ Maybe first watch the movie, to get into it and then watch the tv series if you like it.

  • September 6, 2008 at 12:12 pmSilentveil

    WingZero zxt@

    Nope there was some relationship between Lelouche and Shirley, and I am not just talking about at the end either. You got hints of this before he Geass her that she liked him, and he felt the same in some way because he was stretching himself thin trying to met up with her & continue his secret world. Hell, she was the one whom got him caught at the beginning of the series anyway …after he had ran away with C.C. and hid. The cellphone number was Shirley’s and though you can say they were just friends, but she is generally the one whom stay in contact with Lelouche. Then there is the whole ticket thing, if he didn’t have any feelings for her that entire scene wouldn’t have happen, but it was a budding relationship. Lelouche’s mind was too occupied to really focus in on her, and after all of that, it was really too late for him to fall madly in love with her.

    Thus, my thoughts if that he liked her, but love …might be too strong a word. As for Kallen, she is more like the bestfriend/sister in this series to Lelouche and I can explain quite well why.

  • September 6, 2008 at 4:30 pmWingZero zxt

    *huff* go on then got a day left

  • September 6, 2008 at 4:37 pmWingZero zxt

    @minkui which movie?? is there only one

  • September 6, 2008 at 4:56 pmKalessin

    @WingZero zxt
    Well, there are the two movies which redo the end of the TV series (Neon Genesis Evangelion: Death & Rebirth and Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion), but I believe that minikui is talking about the current set of remake movies. They’re retelling Evangelion (with various changes) in a set of 4 movies. Only the first one (Evangelion: 1.0 You Are [Not] Alone) is out, however, and I don’t believe that it’s been released outside of Japan (certainly there’s been no English dub yet, so no release in the US), so you’d have to track down a fansub of it somewhere. I haven’t seen it, so I don’t really know how it compares.

  • September 6, 2008 at 5:47 pmcodegeasscraziness

    I would like to give my 2 cents on all this. I agree that at this point nothing make sense, and it would seem like everything’s rushed, but you know what? It’s incredibly entertaining, and I know most of you agree with me because you’re debating to no end about this in this forum, as well as others.

    There are many good anime and manga that seem to make no sense at times but are considered a success because they “hook” the viewer throughout. I have to say Code Geass has achieved this, and achieved it very well. The plot at this point is so confusing, and I have no idea who’s the bad guy or who’s the good guy anymore. It’s insane, to say the least. But you know what? It’s so entertaining that I don’t care. I do agree that the plot could be more well told – I don’t even know who’s right between Charles/Marianne and Lelouch at this point, but I think that’s the beauty of this anime. You decide who’s right and who’s wrong, and enjoy the ride through. I think that’s a very realistic portrayal of our real life circumstances, as the term “right” usually depends on a person’s perspective. There could be many arguments and fights, but looking at each side’s perspective at the time, they were correct to make their choices.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • September 6, 2008 at 6:11 pmGrimjaww

    Well Kallen coul ask Lelouch if he really thought of her as a pawn, or if he thought of the black knights as pawns in his game, or if he ordered Euphie to kill everyone.

    I was rewatching season 1 of Code Geass last week, and Kirihara himself told Oghi, “Oghi you can trust this man. He may not be Japanese, but I assure you he is a true enemy of Britania.”

    Something along those lines, so I fail to see why Oghi would be swayed so easily by Schneizel and Viletta who he gets pussy from. I mean Zero did so much for them, and he forgets so quickly. My opinion of Oghi has gone down a lot, I mean he was dumb enough to fall for Schneizel’s trick and plan. Schneizel is all about tactics and manipulation, he is known world wide for that. All of the Black Knights should be ashamed of themselves for falling for such a trap without talking to Zero one on one, without any guns also.

  • September 6, 2008 at 6:48 pmWingZero zxt

    Grimjaww you asked an obvious question about Ougi but then answered it in the same line Bravo!!!! seriously though for all they know kirihara was Geassed thats the problem! Lelouch’s geass or basic knowledge of it makes him fundamentally unapproachable! what the hell were they supposed to do knowing that thier leader had a ridiculous power over people that they knew nothing about!!! you can say that they over reacted and if they had actually known lelouch character or better yet how his power works they wouldnt hve been so quick to execute him but so far as we know schniziel doesnt even know that much so we cant even say schnizeil lied completely! for all we know at this point schniziel genuinely thought lelouch had geassed all of the people schniziel said he had!!! I am still a bit confused about whether villeta still thinks that geas was used in her original capture though!

    regarding whatshisfaces ‘TWO CENTS’ im not be any means sure what people mean when they say nothing at this point makes sense i can currently make sense of it (in particular episdoe 21 which didnt phase me in the slightest!) And as for who the bad guy is you could go so far to say (just about) that there is currently no bad guy because unless you are the Joker from batman or the guy who ok’s microsofts pricing stratey, no one in this program has acted without attemping to justify themselves with higher moral reasoning I.E
    Lelouch thought that he could affect change by wearing a mask becoming and enemy of the state, starting a war and pretending to be a sociopath
    Suzaku thought he could do it by selling out his countries wishes, his own wishes betraying everyone close to him and being a retard
    The emperor and marriane thought they could do it by utilising an acient system which controlled ‘a’ or should i say THE collective unconsciousness therby creating a world where lies werent possible and therefore being nothing but peaceable was FORCed on everybody

    OR you could go so far as to say that the bad guy is the guy whos actions or ‘THINKING’ brought about the deaths of the most people! Or you could say it was all of them and there no good GUYS in this program only GIRLS lol it depends on your upbringing and how morally invested you are in this series!

    dunno schniziels higher moral purpse yet though! he does have cornelia however

  • September 6, 2008 at 6:50 pmWingZero zxt

    … so that makes me think he has one!

  • September 6, 2008 at 9:01 pmWingZero zxt

    hzaa today

  • September 6, 2008 at 10:00 pmKalessin

    I suppose that it all depends on how you define “good guy” and “bad guy”. In your typical show the protagonist is the “good guy” and the antagonist is the “bad guy.” The protagonist is typically a fairly good person who’s trying to make the world better or rid the world of evil some other goal that you’d generally expect a “good” person to do. The antagonist, on the other hand, is usually trying to take over the world (or kingdom or whatever), get super-rich at the expense of others, kill innocent people, or some other goal that people would usually consider nefarious. “Good guys” are good because they do good stuff and “bad guys” are bad because they do evil stuff. Normally, the protagonist is a good guy and the antagonist is a “bad guy.” This doesn’t quite hold true for Code Geass, however.

    The characters in Code Geass are fairly complex. Most of them have good reasons for what they do and believe that they’re doing the right thing. As such, they would tend to fall in the “good guy” category. On the other hand, most of them are willing to do things that we would tend to consider nasty – if not evil – in order to achieve their goals. That would tend to put them in the “bad guy” category. It, therefore, becomes difficult to simply label the protagonists as “good guys” and the antagonists as “bad guys” as you would normally do.

    Now, the protagonists do tend to try and avoid the evil stuff more than the antagonists do and their ideas of what is “good” probably aligns with ours more often than it does with the antagonists, but that isn’t always the case. Lelouch, for instance, generally tries to avoid civilian casualties. Britannians (such as Clovis and Governer Calares), on the other hand, have specifically ordered the slaughter of civilians. It’s generally been clear that the antagonists are more willing to let civilians be killed (especially Elevens) than the antagonists are. However, Lelouch has done things which would generally be considered evil (such as kill the leaders of the Japanese Liberation Front simply because it helped him out in his strategy at the time) while there are people on the Britannian side (such as Suzaku) have specifically avoided harming civilians or committing acts that we’d generally consider evil.

    There are shades of grey in all of the characters in Code Geass. I do believe that the protagonists tend to be more white than black and that the antagonists tend to be more black than white, but it becomes quite difficult to label the major characters as being “good guys” or “bad guys”. I think that it’s safe to say that it’s not the case that things are so turned around that the protagonists are “bad guys” and that the antagonists are “good guys” (unlike Death Note), but it’s definitely not the case that the protagonists are outright “good” and the antagonists are outright “evil.”

    In any case, the only sense in which you can clearly talk about “good guys” and “bad guys” in Code Geass is in the sense that we normally refer to the protagonists as being the “good guys” and the antagonists being the “bad guys” (it’s so common to do so, that we usually don’t even think about it. “good guy” = protagonist and “bad guy” = antagonist). But really, just about everyone in this series is a shade of grey with only a few being white (like Nunnally) or black (like Luciano) and using the term “good guy” and “bad guy” doesn’t really work. If we want to be clear, we should really be talking about the protagonists and the antagonists, not “good guys” and “bad guys.”

  • September 6, 2008 at 10:11 pmMiki


  • September 7, 2008 at 3:39 amGrimjaww

    Ok well obvious Lelouch is the protagonist, and Schneizel is the main antagonist that had been hinted at ever since season 1. The first time we heard about him is when Nunnaly pointed out she had never seen Lelouch so worked up ever since he lost to Schneizel in chess. So now it’s finally the brotherly rivalry that had been hinted at for so long, he is the only one other than Xing-Ke that can compete in intelligence.

    I think it is pretty obvious that Schneizel is a bad guy since he all of the sudden wanted to over throw his father for power, and its not just about geass, the guy likes to win. I mean even Charles did not want Schneizel to be put into power, this guy has a weird mind that gets what he wants by manipulation, aka telling the Black Knights Zero’s identity. Another detail that shows he is a “bad” antagonist is when he smiles as the Freija is wreaking havoc, he knew that Suzaku would use the weapon because of the “Live On” geass; hence why he said a couple episodes ago, “I hold all the cards now.” Schneizel had been floating under the radar ever since season 1, and now his real intentions have been revealed, the only thing that actually made him to seem to care was the death of Euphie, he was actually shooken up and almost in tears. Like i said before, he used the excuse of the geass of Charles since it was such a great opportunity to seize power, I mean who would stop him, Odysseus? As we saw in season 1 he was afraid to take care of Black Rebellion, and did not care about being humiliated by Zero. Odysseus is just content with his rank, so Schneizel had no one to stop him from rising to power. The only person who could is Lelouch, but he is a discarded prince that is thought to be dead, hence why he said “He is the most i loved and feared the most.”

    Just noticed i answered that question! ><

  • September 7, 2008 at 4:31 amTsukiyomi

    k the reason why code geass is kinda sucky with all these plot holes is because sunrise kicked code geass away to show their gundam 00 or something like that so the person who wrote code geass had to finish it quickly but got another chance to restart the story 2 years later.

    judging by the way code geass is going right now, all of our predictions will be wrong and it will have the most unexpected ending.

    i wish code geass was a longer series :(

    y does everyone have Suzuka???(suzaku) he just does stupid things but hes not evil, gay or retarded.(maybe retarded)

    so fckin many posts this is more popular than the Ramblings of Dark Mirage

  • September 7, 2008 at 4:38 amKalessin

    Well, Schneizel isn’t all bad – or at least some of the reasons that he gives for what he’s doing aren’t all bad. He said that his father was neglecting the people and his duty as emperor and that he needed to be overthrown in order to stop that. He seems to think that people want to to be ruled (which, in all honesty, is at least partially true). And if he’s thinking that he can do the best job at ruling the people in a manner that would bring peace and stability to the world, then it would make sense for him to try and take everything over. According to that logic, once he’s in charge, the world will be a better place. So, I don’t think that Schneizel is all bad.

    However, he’s definitely not all that good either. It’s not at all clear why he’s doing what he’s doing (even if he gives good reasons for what he’s doing, I think that we have reason enough to believe that he may be using them as a front as opposed to them being his true reasons), so I don’t think that we can really trust that he’s all that good. He’s definitely shown signs of willing to be quite nasty if the situation calls for it. He’s at least as manipulative as Lelouch – if not more so. I just don’t think that we know enough about his true motives to really think of him as being all that good – particularly when he seems so willing to sacrifice others to achieve his goals (though he’s very good at manipulating others to do the nasty stuff on their own).

    In many ways, I think that if you look at Schneizel and Lelouch objectively, they’re the same. They’re both extremely intelligent and extremely manipulative. The main difference is that Lelouch is the protagonist (so we root for him) and we know why Lelouch does what he does. We don’t know why Schneizel does what he does. He may have good reasons and he may not. As such, he seems very similar to Lelouch.

    Now, I do think that we can safely say that Schneizel is worse given that he not only seems willing to sacrifice others to acheive his goals, but he doesn’t seem to mind (he did smile when FLEIJA went off, after all). And while Lelouch does sacrifice others, I don’t think that he’s as willing to do it and he definitely isn’t always happy about it. He certainly doesn’t like the fact that innocent civilians have died because of him. Schneizel doesn’t appear to care.

    So, I don’t think that Schneizel is outright evil or anything like that, but he’s definitely nastier than Lelouch. Lelouch, at least, regrets having to manipulate people and that innocent civilians (be they Britannians or Japanese) have died as a result of his actions. There’s little evidence that Schneizel has such regrets.

  • September 7, 2008 at 2:40 pmnapen

    devil within, not the devil itself.
    the rest of the episodes will probably be a big chess game again, where Lelouch becoming more human than before.
    but What’s up with Nunnally .. lol

  • October 8, 2008 at 5:18 pmLenex


    This Episode was the 360 we’ve all been waiting for!

  • October 18, 2008 at 3:21 amShia-Neko-Chan

    personally, I made perfect sense of this episode.

    It was a lot of information to take in, though, so I guess I can understand why so many people think the story doesn’t make any sense anymore.

    The only thing I want to know is why Kallen kept saying “WHY?!” like it’s a terrible thing Lelouch become emperor.

    Well, on to episode 22.

  • November 13, 2008 at 6:44 pmKora

    It took a little time to interpret but I can understand the plan a bit better now.

    The Ragnarok connection is a system the manipulates the power of Geass and magnifies it allowing one to control the collective subconscious of the world. In this aspect it is different from the effects of normal Geass which affect an individuals primary consciousness.
    Therefore Charles wanted to use it to force everyone on Earth to loose the ability lie. Lelouch believes that it is human’s ability to lie that provides them individuality. Therefore it is ironic that Charles’s plan is to destroy individuality because it was the very thing that his Darwinist Approach praised. The loss of individuality would cause the human race to become stagnant and without progress, so to prevent this Lelouch ordered the collective subconsciousness to continue to move forward. Due to the fact that it controls our actions our subconsciousness is our personal god, hence the terminology.
    I do feel that they should have spent more time explaining this concept, though.

  • July 13, 2009 at 12:37 pmhasmat

    I think episode 2 was epic but i still can’t find the part where Suzaku kicks Lelouch

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