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「レクリエイターズ」 (Re:Kurieitaazu)
“Re:CREATORS”
As expected there were no real surprises for Re:Creators’ conclusion. Sure we didn’t have a time skip, no resurrections for the feels, and of course some explanations were not forthcoming (looking at you Altair materialization), but hey, it wasn’t that bad of a happy ending. Matsuraba and Tanaba have the satisfaction knowing Celestia and Alice are not really dead, Souta’s mind is eased enough to delve back into creation, and even poor Hikayu learned that ecchi can be a force for good. Occasionally.
The hilarious bit though lay with Meteora and her inability to return home. Spell doesn’t allow the user to cross the portal? Nonsense, little miss magic just doesn’t want to share the bounty from the world of the gods. Seriously, just look at that face, does that look like the face of mercy? Plus we all know now that Meteora actually created the entire story for her own amusement. Alright it’s all tongue in cheek at this point, but it’s nice seeing Re:Creators still willing to pay homage to some fan theories right before curtain drops. All in all it not a bad way to go out.
Final Impressions
There is no denying that Re:Creators is unique. It comes from the imagination of Hiroe Rei, plays up our meta crossover/multiverse fantasies for all they are worth, and had a solid theme under all the fluff and circumstance. We never even really encountered any production issues or glaring shifts in pace or narrative which plagued TROYCA’s other big(ly) original work in Aldnoah.Zero. It was an all-round good show. Yet this views hides a lot of issues under the surface which (in my opinion) hindered the show in a few ways.
The most prominent issue with Re:Creators was arguably its focus. The show had a fantastically unique theme in the trials and tribulations of story creators, but it never particularly emphasized this aspect. We saw creations brought to life, a few quick moments of real world exploration, and then several episodes of static, room-panning info dumps and a quick shift into the strategy of dealing with Altair. Creator struggles, the highs and lows of world building and the fears of making work public? Hardly touched on explicitly, and largely relegated to Re:Creators’ latter half once Altair’s raison d’etre became front and centre. This was a show of ideas that all but required its audience glean them from secondary sources or pour copious amounts of thought into after the fact. We hyped up small moments, received ambiguous answers for our troubles, and always hoped next week would inevitably reward our patience. Sometimes Re:Creators provided satisfaction (particularly in the last few episodes), but more often than not, we wound up with more of the same.
What specifically generates this criticism is what Re:Creators lacked: action. By this I refer not to pretty explosions or over the top fights (which did feature), but simply showing in place of telling. The show as mentioned had a heavy reliance on info dumps for its plot advancement, which while necessary at points in any story, quickly wore out their welcome. Couple that with Meteora being our source of nearly all plot-related information, and it’s no surprise many grew tired of Re:Creators narrative approach. The show simply had little of the cosmetic filler which keeps an audience invested, the character interactions, the small adventures, the ubiquitous single episode arcs. Sure we received all the important answers and plot details early on, but it wasn’t especially entertaining. The audience wants to see the characters live in the world around them and explore its intricacies, not statically give and receive data through boring presentations. By refusing to emphasize those quintessential slice of life moments, Re:Creators effectively became an academic work instead of a living, breathing universe. In place of a story, we arguably got an accounting.
Now with all that said it does not imply Re:Creators was terrible, far from it. Even with all the aforementioned criticisms the show remained a joy for me to watch, and never once noticeably stumbled. What irks me in hindsight is that it could have been so much better. Simply replacing those early info dumps with “showing” slice-of-life moments (a la the recap episode) for example would have made things fun and lively while retaining the required drip of plot-based information. Focusing more on Altair and her party earlier on would have improved our impressions and made her finale more impactful. Hell showcasing more of the other creators beyond Souta would have greatly increased the depth of Re:Creators’ thematic exploration. In a way the show geared up, but wound up stuck in the middle gear early on, producing a story too large for a single season, but stretched awfully thin over two cours. Whether due to time constraints or production committee issues, Re:Creators had a disconnect between its story and its structure and held itself back because of it.
In the end though without a doubt, Re:Creators will leave its mark. With anime original series seemingly only growing rarer as time passes, having a show willing to explore certain concepts and do so well is enough for some serious accolades. Criticism or not (and don’t take my thoughts as the end all be all!), Re:Creators took a chance and produced a show giving us countless weeks’ worth of discussion, debate, and viewer imagination. It may not have been the best thing ever to grace our screens, but denying its impact would be premature and unfair. After all with this show potentially being the first of many (not like there aren’t plenty of potential jumping off points), it’s not like we’ve truly seen the last of it just yet. Re:Creators has easily laid a solid foundation, it’s just up to its creators to see if there’s anything else which can be added on top.
In the end it seems this was an animator’s love letter to themselves. On the plus side I am happy to see the Alicetaria the Scarlet/ Mamika the Magic Slayer movie poster.
I think Re Creators was a catharsis outlet for Aoki and Hiroe; letting them (in)directly voice how they feel as creators and their impact on the public.
Aoki himself said Nakanogane’s his favourite character; he sees in him the many hardships an anime director must endure. He can also relate to Souta’s disappointment when he feels his work is not up to par.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2039.jpg
The best villain isn’t the one that destroy or conquer the world but the one that even after doing something horrible but still considered as a family by the protagonist hahaaha *i’m looking at you magane..
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2037.jpg
the true last boss?? haha, too bad there’s no confirmation about how altair come to real world.
For all the time devoted to theorization and exposition in the series, it’s funny to see how it ended without solving the most interesting mysteries and loose ends. In this very episode, for example, Nishio offers a stream of insightful observations (how does the retun to their own worlds work? will they be merged? will new alternative universes open up?), but alas, we don’t have time for that now.
And again, the show downplays the most disturbing implications of the setting. Here Meteora basically explains word by word that the Selesia they knew, the one they fought with, laughed with and had fun with, the one whose plot ended with her death in the Elimination Chamber Festival, is no more. The only thing that is left is an alternative Selesia, the one from the original story that didn’t and will never meet them. And that was supposed to be a comforting thought.
Yes, it’s disappointing for a 22 episode anime..leaving so many questions unanswered.
I’m disappointed too. I thought they’re finally gonna tell us what kind of power that brought Altair to IRL. And we also never really told or shown in details of how Altair’s summoning power works. What are the limitations, etc-etc. Those points are the things that I have been wondering since early in the series and they left me hanging.
I don’t think it’s downplaying. The creators know that the Selesia & Alice that they know are dead. But just like heroes who died leaving their children, Selesia & Alice still have their other selves in various media. The difference being, now Matsubara & Takarada know their hopes and wishes as actual individuals and that will certainly help them improving their stories. As for the lost, well, we already saw Takarada & Matsubara beating themselves over it and the rest of the cast still mourning them in some capacity (see Blitz’ toast in this episode).
I view that it left so much open, so many things to interpret, so many loose ends, as a gift to the audience.
At the center it’s a story about creating worlds through stories, and that even fan creations from a series can have a life and worlds of their own.
Good stuff.
When it comes to novels I occasionally don’t finish ones that I really enjoy because that way the story never ends. Often the author just can’t live up to my expectations.
Pure speculation, but Miss Urobutcher probably won’t kill off Blitz’s daughter at any point in the story, even if she says she might do it.
(if I had one gripe, it’s that we didn’t get to see the changes in the creators’ series as a result of actually interacting with their characters)
Honestly it would be VERY hard to make another death work in a story. Sure it may or may not be realistic to have Blitz’s daughter die again, but if you go through an arc killing off a character, then another huge story-arc to bring said character back, killing that character a second time would lose all impact.
Sadly, authors abusing tragic twists and making their story sink in Darkness Induced Apathy are not unheard of, to put it lightly. Fortunately, she’s part of a single-creator manga; if Blitz’s daughter was a secondary character in a long-lived superhero comic book, her chances of survival would be far lower.
Please, I think being shot ONCE is enough to make an Urobutcher to learn her lesson.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2022.jpg
Seriously, who would ever imagine an author meets her own character. If I ever made a fictional character, I never expect the character to come to life. Anyway, I may be giving her too much credit but I think our Urobutcher learned her lesson.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2010.jpg
And, curiously, Yuya was one thing, but I would have wondered if Sho would demand his “god” to “resurrect” some dead people.
Suruga was my favourite Creator. She was unapologetic about the ruthless side of creation until the very end. Not even Blitz’s daughter could change that with her innocent remarks about her “goddess”. The other authors tried to handwave it in one way or another (except Matsubara for a bit, I think), but she didn’t.
As Varric said in the video game Dragon Age 2 (itself a similar exploration of the powers of plot and fiction):
I don’t think so. I mean, Yatoji basically promised nothing. He may agree with what Yuya and Sho suggested though about them offing the culprit together and received great “prize” at the end (that’s how most shonen mangas ended anyway). Matsubara only promised to give Selesia’s world stories and coffee, and he can easily come up with a happy ending where Selesia got together with Charon after winning the war coz that’s also how many LN stories ended. Takarada promised nothing other than improving Aliceteria’s story (and doing more crossovers! XD). Nakanogane just said that he might add things like plamos into Rui’s world. Nishi promised to abuse Hikayu even more(!) but promising her to end up with the male MC which is normal in that kind of games. All of them never said any BS promises that’s unrealistic in anime/manga/game/LN industry. So they’re not much different from Suruga except maybe they’re nicer about it (Nishi notwithstanding).
So, no, I don’t see any handwaving around here. Just creators still doing what they originally do but improving themselves at it.
I was talking about the series in general, but now that you mention what happened in this episode, it only reinforces my impression. Cosmetic decisions, author pride, but a noticeable lack of moral reflection from the Creators, minus Suruga (and Matsubara in a previous episode blaming his own writing for making Charon reach the point of no return).
Previously, the authors were justified in the sense that they didn’t know their worlds and characters were real. Now they don’t have that excuse anymore.
For the authors, it seems the only moral conundrum is to make their stories and favourite characters enjoyable. Nakanogane’s and Nishio’s scene toys with the idea of stopping writing, but not due to any ethical concerns, but because a fanfic beat his carefully crafted story. Only Suruga addresses directly the deaths and suffering that might be needed for that goal, deaths and suffering they now know are real for other people.
I mean, I get the message that authors can’t stop creating and how they give birth to other worlds. That’s good and positive. But given the nature of the setting, Fridge Logic kicks in. Since Suruga highlights those moral questions,
Meteorathe authors of the series show they are aware of them. But because it’s only Suruga who does it, the other authors ironically start looking like the amoral “gods of pleasure” Altair mentioned.@mistic
Then I guess I need to bring my past comment about this:
The thing is, now that the power that brought these characters to life is gone, what are the statuses of these characters? One can easily and safely assume that they returned back to lifeless characters on paper and on screen which means that putting them through rough ordeals or even death are no longer a crime or sin. From here on, it all depends on each creators’ sentimental value toward their characters.
@Oby
That’s but an assumption. If false, the moral conundrum for the authors remains. If true, it would mean that sending them to their worlds is akin to killing or erasing these people, which opens a different can of worms.
It goes back to what has been pointed out in this thread: Re:Creators has left many important questions unanswered. In this very episode, Nishio lampshades the issues of returning the characters to their fictional universe and how Meteora’s theory about it is just a “hypothesis”. All in all, I wouldn’t mind the vagueness if the characters at least acknowledged the logical implications, but as always (except in Blitz’s and Suruga’s case), no such luck.
@mistic
Yeah, we can only assume. The show’s vagueness regarding the summoning magic doesn’t help either. I was just using simple logic: no summoning magic = no living creations.
And if sending the creations back to their worlds equal killing or erasing them, I think the wise Meteora wouldn’t want to do it at all. So, there must be some actual parallel worlds where these characters can still live with their IRL memories intact. The said worlds must also be divorced from the animangames worlds that the creators are working on. You know what, I think the summoning magic also created multiverse when it attempted to “bring the creations to life”. If so, then my condolences for the parallel worlds who lost their female heroes. Just my 2-cents.
Unless the theory about Meteora being an evil mastermind is true and she wanted to get rid of the competition XD
Wow… I guess I was not the only one to call out her being Urobutcher.
But really, I don’t think she’ll hesitate to kill Blitz’s daughter. If she’s kind to Blitz, his daughter will go through the entire Butcher Bingo multiple times over or end up like Saya no Uta.
“I don’t think she’ll hesitate to kill Blitz’s daughter.”
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2023.jpg
Well, your point has some basis if we see that look on her face.
However, I don’t think Blitz is that stupid.
Suruga to Blitz – “You can stay in this world if you want.”
Blitz- I would rather not stay in the same world as you
Me- And you prefer a world that is created and controlled by your own god? If I were you, I would prefer to go to Meteora’s world, which is independent from any god.
“…it’s just up to its creators to see if there’s anything else which can be added on top.”
An OVA, perhaps?
(crosses fingers to see tie up that loose end with https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2020%20-%20Large%2033.jpg)
There’s a reason she was left out of a lot of the story and then disappeared on her own by the end, she’s getting her own spin-off manga.
Soon, just have to pray long enough 😛
Finally managed to finish the whole show. I remember catching up to episode 18 I believe in a single Friday
T’was ok, I enjoyed it. It was interesting enough to hold my interest. I initially planned to not even watch the show at all but remembering senpai’s words to give many things a shot, I told myself “Eh, why not? Just one episode anyway”
Souta irritated me less and less as time went on, but just seeing the dude still makes me groan in frustration at every moment. Also, those gigantic info-dumps coming out from one person… Man, when will we ever graduate from that…
In any case, what made me become really interested in the show was the interaction between the creators and their creations, as well as the big ass fight fest as the show’s final arc. But that’s missing the MAJOR POINT here as those still don’t explain why on Terra I kept on watching till the end and that is all thanks to #BESTGIRL Selesia. S-E-L-E-S-I-A. Wakaru? Wakatterun darou? S-E-L-E-S-I-A GA SEKAI NI ICHIBAN SAIKOU DA!!!!! SEEEEELEEEEEEESIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
//cries in agony
Vogelchevalier anime when? ( ; _ ; )
Also, this right here is the quintessential C-L-A-S-S-I-C hero pose, without a doubt!
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%2018.jpg
Fun fact (based on the interviews I’ve read): Souta was designed to be initially annoying, and the director was hoping that people would continue watching the series despite that.
Mission accomplished then~ Frankly, I can’t ever put other people through that, oh no, no, no…
Re:Creators …….a clever title for Meteora’s new novel.
My main concern is what Yuya said – “They made the world their own, then just went and died.”
Me- What??!!!!! So Altair and Setsuna are dead?!!! Or was that just Yuya’s crude interpretation.
Meteora’s circumstance was funny.
Meteora – “Sota, we will meet each other again.”
When she said that, like Sota, I also thought she was referring to some cliché thing. But she REALLY meant that she is STUCK in this world. I agree with what our dear writer said, “Nonsense, little miss magic just doesn’t want to share the bounty from the world of the gods.” I am sure Meteora wants some Pancakes to eat daily. AAAHHH Sota has finally got shipped with his WAIFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel so happy that our dear main character got some romance with a 2D girl. Now Sota, DON’T MESS UP!
The real question is Magane………just where did she travel to? Maybe where yummy food exist.
Other thoughts that came to my mind-
-Yuya, unlike most of the characters, never changed his casual clothes. Typical important character trope.
– I imagine that, among those criticisms, people said that Matsubara plagiarized when creating Sirius. However, I imagine the Government pulled some strings. I am surprised that, to prevent the same disaster, the Government didn’t ban anime and manga. Well, looking at AKB0048, only Totalitarianism can allow such things.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2033.jpg
Is anyone crying when they saw this? T_T What was the movie title, I wonder.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2035.jpg
Looking at that wink, I wonder if Creations can make their own edits where not everything animated isn’t truly manage by the animators and voice actors. Meh.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2002.jpg
Wonder if this hug had any significance.
Can anyone elaborate what is Aki Kikuchihara’s new job? She quit dealing with politics, now what job is she in, a mangaka?
I do have to like characters, like Kikuchihara; while she is a “supporting” character, she has that mysterious vibe that makes her very unique, don’t know how to classify her or how many “supporting” characters resemble her.
I think it was Yuuya’s crude interpretation of Altair and Setsuna disappearing.
I suspect Magane’s gone overseas to see the world. Where is up to our imagination.
The Alice/Mamika crossover movie’s titled “A Bouquet of Smiles for You”.
The text on Alice’s side says ” Perhaps I wanted to become like Mamika”.
Text on Mamika’s side says “Please smile, Alice”.
Kikuchihara’s likely working in the publishing industry now. Definitely upper-tier, given her credentials.
I see, thank you so much, really appreciate the translations.
“Please smile, Alice”. I have a hunch that maybe Takarada met Mamika to know that Mamika couldn’t pronounce Alice’s full name.
Even in “death” those two can still be together T_T. Takarada is such a nice “god.”
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2034.jpg
On the side note, I just noticed that Meteora is still using her real name. You would think that she would use a fake name. Oh well.
The part of “went away and died” it’s a mistranslation of the line. Yuya simply says they “went away”.
Ah, I see, thank you. It could also be the translators idea as a joke.
Just to add what I said earlier, about Kikuchihara being an important “supporting” character, I just remember a couple of people that resemble such role.
Elvira Friedmann (Shūmatsu no Izetta) – practically resembles Kikuchihara, in terms of Role and looks where she is a woman wearing glasses.
Takeshi Jumonji (RahXephon)- Also considered to be a “minor” supporting character yet took some important actions despite his role.
I again thank zztop again for his observation. Saying “Kikuchihara’s likely working in the publishing industry now. Definitely upper-tier, given her credentials.” Shows that Kikuchihara may pull some strings if her position calls for it.
For It’s definitely one of the rare anime that I can relate with on so many levels. Similar to Ar no Surge, i love the way they broke the 4th wall at times, despite the info dumps it never got to the point that it made me lose interest (granted showing is more often better than telling, but not always)
Definitely going to recommend this anime to my friends who are artist/ game developers XD
Aoki Ei says Re Creators is a metaphor for craftsmanship.
Ar no Surge is definitely adaptation worthy, but it’ll take some real skill and a titanic set of balls to give it the treatment it rightfully deserves…
My connection to the game became so strong that if I ever had a daughter I’d name her ‘Ion’ ( ; _ ; )
before anyone starts raving on about magane like on mal, this is why she didn’t get any screen time https://www.crunchfu.com/magane-recreators-gets-new-spin-off-manga-based-20170805
because they left it for the spin off!
Magane spinoff manga Chp 1:
https://imgur.com/a/XqwuN
Spinoff Chp 3:
https://imgur.com/r/ReCreators/4d0DI
As zztop mentioned, “Hiroe Rei also confirmed Magane will lose her powers like Meteora. However, she’ll still keep on living her free-spirited life and lying to people.” So I imagine what we will see, in the spin-off, is the remaining time that Magane will have her powers.
Welp only two years or so until the inevitable anime adaptation then.
And it’s inevitable because we all need more best girl in our lives 😛
That was another thing I was thinking, is this could give us insights into all the different characters and worlds they’ve been playing around with in their heads.
This was one of the shows I contemplated following. I didn’t even get around to seeing the first episode. I dunno. IN the coming days before its first airing, something felt a bit off to me. Having read that this show doesn’t quite use the “creators’ characters come to life and hijinks ensue” premise a lot because it tursn out that’s not the type of show it IS, I feel a touch better about it, though I can clearly see there are lot of appealing characters. I might check it out later.
Aoki Ei confirmed Nakanogane’s musings about their plans failing to match Altair’s powers was meant to symbolize the harshness of reality, where an endeavour can fail despite pouring all your effort into it.
-He’d envisioned Re Creators as a 2-cour anime from the start. Initially Eps 21-22 were just 1 episode, but he extended to 22 so the story could fit better after Ep 13’s recap.
-He says that it can be frustrating as a creator when the public doesn’t want to accept what they feel is interesting, but you can’t blame the public for that.
Hiroe Rei also confirmed Magane will lose her powers like Meteora. However, she’ll still keep on living her free-spirited life and lying to people.
-He also says his draft story for the anime, Re Creators Naked, has a different ending from the anime; to see them please buy the published version of Naked once they come out end of September and October.
-Naked contains more indepth info and interactions not adapted into the anime. Examples include Magane getting even more dialogue, and Altair having nightmares of Setsuna’s death when she sleeps.
Nakanogane’s pain felt very real, indeed. Also, a good meta exploration of Re:Creators itself.
All that effort to make a believable, coherent story only for the fans to cheer at the overpowered Villain Sue. Or more damning: the fans feeling that such fanfic character, derided by the established authors as void of plot and development, actually has a better depiction and story, and that it’s their works the ones who can’t measure up to her. That must have hurt.
-Hiroe Rei also confirmed Magane will lose her powers like Meteora. However, she’ll still keep on living her free-spirited life and lying to people.-
Oh, thanks for the info. I am still a bit confused on why they are losing their powers. I guess All creations begin to lose their powers when in the real world for too long, if that is my guess. Or maybe Altair was the main reason on why Creations were able to use their powers in the real world in the first place.
Just to add, base on her fight against Yuya, we do recall that Magane has inhuman agility so I can assume she will also lose that and become a “complete normal human” if I am understanding things correctly.
I have my criticisms, but overall I’m glad this series happened. Per its title (clearly the intent in hindsight), this series asked questions of creators all over and that made me think about things I hadn’t before. Not every anime does that, so I appreciate Re:Creators for spawning those discussions. Also, it made me kinda hungry to see some crossovers between real series…
All that said, Meteora staying behind and writing a story called Re:Creators really feels like a parting tease to all the people irritated by Meteora’s overextended explanations. It’s unapologetic as hell and I find that hilarious, so here’s Meteora mugging for the camera one last time:
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2007.jpg
Certainly, that was a clever meta defense of their writing. Meteora exemplifies most of the criticism against the series Pancakes pointed out. And let’s be honest, it was pretty clear she was the author’s pet. But of course, it all makes sense if Meteora herself wrote the story XD
If it was not intentional I will laugh even harder lol, the development was too perfect a slap in the face of those hating Meteora’s (overbearing) presence. Unless she wrote it of course, who honestly has themselves die in a story of their own creation? XD
Well I can understand Meteora desire to stay, all she has is an unchanging world where she will be stuck inside a library.
Onto the episode and the end, Takarada and Matsubara doing a work together is very welcome. It’s fitting since both of their characters are knights who end up dead in the events. Hopefully there would be an OVA of Alice Mamika movie or at least a false trailer of Selesia anime.
While the “creator” perspective is interesting, I find Re:CREATORS and Fate/Apocrypha the two most disappointing shows of this season. They are not bad, but far weaker than what I have expected. (In contrast, Princess Principal and Made in Abyss have both exceeded our high expectations.)
There are fights after fights. Some of them are spectacular, but they all appear isolated and I just cannot feel any plot advancement at all. Character developments are also weak, although there are occasionally some good plots (I particularly like Alicetaria’s cherishing of plastic bag — that’s my favourite scene of the year). While a story in general can have multiple main characters, all characters in these two shows appear to me more like extras than main characters.
And both shows lack tensions.
Re:CREATORS’ heavy reliance on info dump is also very problematic (and boring), as Pancakes rightly points out.
And so a vast amount of popular stories of the past are no longer possible because of the no info dump rule if we stick to it. TV Tropes covers this well in Tropes are not bad.
Honor Harrington book series is very massive and popular and has huge blocks of info dump as it is harder Sci-Fi where info dumps are mandatory and part of the fun. I think this a genre problem if you dislike a genre you make the mistake of thinking the work is done poorly when more simply your personal taste does not like that type of story.
If you’re letting a popular view of a trope damage your enjoyment of some works you need to work on no noticing the tropes being used especially those that some think is bad.
@RedRocket Not liking info dumps can be a matter of personal taste, yes; but there is also the fact that certain narratives execute info dumps in the most uninteresting way; this is the part of the argument that your comment fails to address. Info dumps are not inherently bad (at least not in the way our current generation seems to perceive them); however anything with pedestrian execution can easily cripple a series’ integrity and that’s what happened with re:creators. Just like the idea with cliches, they arent inherently bad things (cliches are cliches because they work). It’s when those cliches are executed in the most drab way possible that it calls attention to the fact that the writer is relying too much on their cliche to carry their story; that’s when there’s an issue. There are so many arguments going around about how those who didnt care for the info dumps in re:creators just “didnt get the point of the series” and im here like: “or maybe the info dumps were handled terribly? or maybe the show spent too much time with telling rather than showing? or rather some of the shit the show had to say was repeated across multiple episodes? or maybe people wanted to see more compelling characterization through natural means rather than the bland cast we got? I think more people need to entertain both sides of an argument when trying to bolster theirs and maybe try to understand the reasoning behind another person’s opinion
@sonicsenryaku
I think it’s more like a case-by-case scenario. There are some info-dumps in the show that do just fine serving the narrative or even enhancing it while there are some others where they are pretty tedious and repetitive.
It’s not right to just apply the broad stroke and paint all the infodumps in the show as being bad storytelling method. I still remember someone who dislike the infodumps in R:C here in past comment section complaining about the episode where Meteora found out about the death of her creator and then played her own game to ease her troubled mind. This guy wanted the anime to show Meteora playing the aforementioned Avalken of Reminisce instead of hearing her impression and what she felt while (and after) playing the game. Like, man, are you serious? Why would you want that Meteora scene replaced by watching her plays a freakin’ video game? Why would you want the showrunners to spend more money animating something that serve little to the narrative? Meteora’s long confession served the narrative a lot better than what this guy suggested which he did because he wanted a “show no tell” just for the sake of it. Still, there are some other infodumps that felt repetitive (eg. Kikuchihara’s second speech in the room full of anime-industry execs about how important the mission is, etc) that can justifiably be cut or replaced with better content. That much we clearly understand.
@Oby
“This guy wanted the anime to show Meteora playing the aforementioned Avalken of Reminisce instead of hearing her impression and what she felt while (and after) playing the game”
Actually, I agree that this particular approach would have worked better. You questioning why the guy who made the comment would want the production studios to shell out extra animation effort to make the scene more visually communicable is a weak rebuttal. That’s like asking why a movie couldnt make the effort of shelling out a bit more money to make their visuals not look like crap; it’s just not a good counter argument to me. I would have loved to see the emotional journey meteora had while playing the game. Watching the infectious joy of experiencing someone’s creation take Meteora by the heart would have been been more emotionally resonant than her explaining her accounts with the game. While i dont necessarily think her monologuing about her experience was a bad approach (as she can still convey those emotions by words; then again not really because of the type of character she is; which again, made shit worse), what made it utterly boring and dissatisfying was the lack of creative/energetic visual direction/storyboarding or captivating scene composition. Here’s a simple solution: they could have easily spliced more flashbacks of meteora’s experience with the game while she monologued, creating a happy medium between verbal and visual exposition.
But yea, almost all of the exposition scenes in this show did not work for. And then to make things worse, the creative process this show was so intent on exploring was handled in the most superficial and unexciting way; i just didnt care. There are times i wish writers were more in tune about what makes stories interesting in the first place; how to make captivating dialogue; how to speak mountains with visual storytelling and affectatious character writing. Re:creators did not have a lot of that, which sucks because most of it’s first ep had better directing than the entire series. Oh well, there were moments of fun to be had throughout the series, which prevented it from sinking even lower down my negative spectrum
@sonicsenryaku
No, it’s not weak. The point of that part in the aforementioned episode is not watching Meteora play the game. The point is: Selesia & co want to know how Meteora deals with the death of her creator, why she’s gone without telling everyone, what she was doing at the time (playing game), and Meteora’s impression after playing it. Meteora answers all those points in his dialogues with Selesia & co. You can’t replace all that by having one scene where we see Meteora playing the game without later talking to her friends. That’s not good storytelling. I mean, just think about it. Use logic.
The above is not just about money. This is about how best serve the narrative and saving money for a more relevant and complicated scenes if possible (coz animation studio need to do that).
@Oby
“The point is: Selesia & co want to know how Meteora deals with the death of her creator, why she’s gone without telling everyone, what she was doing at the time (playing game), and Meteora’s impression after playing it.”
What does that have to do with the show being able to illustrate this to the viewer through action? If we got to see Meteora play the game, we could visually see her emotionally journey as she explored her creator’s passion through his creation. We could SEE that she cut contact from the others to play the game and lastly we can SEE how she feels about the game when it’s all said and done and empathize strongly with her cathartic realization. But here’s the kicker; are you ready? We could visually see all this IN ADDITION to her talking to her friends about how she felt about the game. I dont know why you framed this discussion in such mutually exclusive terms. The difference in this scenario would be that she would have to monologue less to them, because we as the audience have already seen her emotional journey playing the game, allowing the plotto move along more smoothly. Meteora can assure her friends that she’s okay, tell them her brief impressions of the game (as a way of wrapping a neat bow on the emotional journey the viewers already watched her experienced) and then we can cut away from her monologue with the implication that she continues to explain to them how the game made her feel so the narrative doesnt suffer from redundancy. You’re making it sound like the direction the director and writer took with the scene was the only way that made sense and i think that’s completely incorrect.
“The above is not just about money. This is about how best serve the narrative and saving money for a more relevant and complicated scenes if possible”
Why would you say that is not about the money and then a sentence later mention saving money for more relevant scenes??? You are right though; it’s not about the money; but it’s still no excuse to cut corners in the most uninspired of ways. Serial experiments lain is my favorite anime of all time and that show is an exercise in cutting corners in that it makes sure that the corners it cuts doesnt sacrifice the strength of the storytelling. If you’re going to cut corners, make sure you do it right. If your excuse for the scene with Meteora talking about her experiences with her creator’s game not being interesting was a result of “saving money,” then they should have done a better job making up for that by finding another way to make the scene more visually interesting or the dialogue more compelling; none of those things were accomplished.
@sonicsenryaku
Mate, you’re drifting away from the topic that I discussed.
Remember how at the start of my post I was describing this certain guy? Well, unlike what you said above, he didn’t want the scene where Meteora talks with her friends at all. He wanted it all replaced by Meteora playing the game with no dialogues (only visual). That’s where I think he was wrong for all intent and purposes because that will cut some necessary parts of the plot regarding Meteora’s character development.
It seems you have inserted your own opinion in this guy’s shoes. The problem is, he was not as reasonable as you when it comes to approaching this issue. And I’m talking about him and his input (as an example), not yours.
@Oby
I wouldnt say im getting off track from what the point of this discussion was. In your comment, you said visually showing Meteora play the video game would serve little narrative purpose. That’s where I’m saying i completely disagree with you. You’re saying that the showrunners shouldnt have to put in effort to animate that which why im telling you that is not a productive way to look at storytelling. What that sounds like you’re saying is : “oh that might have required more effort that was unnecessary so therefore it’s fine that they settled with their uninspired storytelling mechanic.” The thing is, it would have made the narrative better if they had put in that extra effort. Never go out of your way to say that a creator should not put in the extra effort to make something better when it could have enhanced the story
For my two cents, the info dumps themselves are not a problem, but rather how the show utilized them. Everyone would have likely been fine with one here or there, but shoving (IIRC) three in a row starts grating on people’s nerves. Then was the manner of info dump, most were literal presentations with little animation—some of these definitely needed replacing with something else.
Oby I believe mentioned the video game example, and in a way it would work if kept simple. Simply do it like Alexander and his Master in F/Z, chatting around a video game which leads into a plot-related tangent. Meteora and/or Celestia playing, someone mentions how different/similar they are to their materialized forms, and Meteora brings up her thoughts regarding that. Stuff like that could have served so much better than the presentations while still giving us the information needed.
I don’t think any of us were expecting perfection during the show, just more opportunities to see the creations interact with the world around them.
@sonicsenryaku & Pancakes
Err guys, most of my arguments that I posted above are in response to the (unreasonable) input of a certain dude from past comment section who wanted to eliminate all of Meteora’s talking parts and replace it with visual-only scene (no talking whatsoever) of her playing the game. His idea is not the same as both of your ideas. His idea would’ve make the narrative worse than what we already got. I disagree with his flawed idea, not yours.
Do you understand my point now? Your suggestions are actually better than this guy’s. I would’ve welcomed both of your ideas with open arms, but not this guy that I’m talking about.
You know, I never expected a simple comment of mine can develop into such convoluted argument XD
@Oby
After witnessing this fascinating exchange, I’d like to do as Pancakes and add my two cents. I think I know why the example of that guy’s solution was so controversial.
It was presented as an example of why it isn’t right to “paint all the infodumps in the show as being bad storytelling method”. However, that the aforementioned solution was bad doesn’t make the exposition in Re:Creators any better. I can agree that such an extreme “show, don’t tell” approach for that scene wouldn’t work and still feel justified in using the “broad stroke” and consider that all of Meteora’s infodumps are equally bad. One thing doesn’t preclude the other.
Also, it’s a matter of tastes. There may be people who would consider that guy’s “flawed idea” somewhat better than Re:Creators’ favourite exposition method (if not in execution, at least in spirit). Thus, what was intended as a reason against the negative generalization may end up backfiring in the eyes of some.
@mistic
It’s not exactly the reason. It’s more like an example of how one’s dislike/hate toward R:C’s infodump can give birth to such bad idea.
If I were to give you all the reasons why I think applying the broad stroke and painting all the infodump in this anime as something bad, it’d be a wall of text that I’m reluctant in doing. Not this late in the game when we already had these conversations in past episodes. In general, one of the reasons why I think applying the broad stroke is not right is that you can clearly see the difference of quality between the infodumps throughout the show (at least for me it’s obvious). Some are good, some are meh, and some are bad. One of the good ones for me is Meteora stopping the JSDF’s ambush by actually talking to them and clearing up the misunderstanding immediately which then proceeded by having a discussion with the government in a board room which represented by Kikuchihara. Aside from providing us with useful info, the discussion also provides back-and-forth character interaction between our protags and the government and how they will cooperate from that point. In many other series, it takes so much longer and more episodes just to clear up this kind of misunderstanding, let alone cooperation. So yeah, the above example (among others) is clearly not bad infodump for me.
@Oby
Ah, I see your point now. Problem is, it still falls under the second point I mentioned: tastes. I consider all of Meteora’s infodumps in the first episodes of the series incredibly boring at worst and clearly improvable at best. No exceptions. Not even the example you mention, Meteora’s famous meeting with Kikuchihara and the government officials; I can appreciate breaking clichés and having a cooperative government, but I still consider the long exposition scene in that room dull and repetitive.
There is, however, one case in which I enjoyed Meteora’s exposition, indeed: episode 13. Ironically, an episode devoted to Meteora explaining things, half of them things we already knew. But it was enjoyable. Why? Because Meteora was turned into a parody of herself. The exposition had character (not unlike how Magane gets away with a similar direct exposition method because she makes it fun).
I agree that not all exposition is bad. Episode 13 shows for me that even a Meteora infodump can be entertaining. But personally, I can’t give a pass to what they did in the first episodes. Now that the series is finished and we can take a look at it with the benefit of hindsight, I can honestly declare that those who complained about exposition in the first episodes were ultimately vindicated.
That plastic bag scene is a perfect example of what I think Re:Creators was missing. We had precious little of those scenes, the small things which give us additional info about the characters, but in an entertaining way. IMO it would not have been difficult doing it for the likes of Altair or other secondary creations either, the show simply chose not to.
Lacking those “filler” moments is what makes the info dumps so pronounced and annoying. Most people prefer not to get their knowledge from a bunch of boring, academic-esque text lol.
This is how to make a good ‘show with tons of unresolved plot holes and unexplained Deus Ex Asspull’
As a creator myself (fanfic writer), the sins of Re:Creator’s story line made me cringe, but it was able to win me over with comedy, high octane battles and lots of magical explosions.
I am but a simple man with simple tastes. Me see explosions (and tits), me like.
Re:Creator had the same flaws as Aldnoah Zero, but I hold both in high regard.
For me, Re:Creators is something you watch with your brain slightly turned off. Ignore the plot holes and the info dumps and enjoy the battles and explosions!
Yay, good for you.
I love anime even giant robot anime even though my training as Army Infantry Officer, knowledge as an amateur historian, and wargame love tells me most anime combat and items are stupid. I just turn it off and enjoy the show.
For me it’s the exact opposite. I actually worked as a creator for 15 years professionally (video game design) and this series is jammed with so many metaphors and tangents that it’s like a love letter to the ability to create and let people enjoy your stories.
Any time someone complains about plot holes I cringe too XD
Thank you, Pancakes. You put words to the feeling of disappointment I have about the series. When people complain about the exposition, they’re painted with a strawman brush of wanting more battle scenes instead of quiet ones. Wrong! As you said, the series lacked action, but action is not the same as fights.
Sure, when all things are taken into account, I find it very enjoyable. But it’s hard not to think of the countless missed opportunities. Some of them showcased in the very series: who wouldn’t have liked to see the scenes seen in the first ending of the anime? Selesia, Meteora and company going to the beach, going to a manga convention, spending time in a festival…?
You also pinpoint another problem with the series: too often it seemed a vehicle for the authors to move the plot and the exploration of themes towards the things they wanted to showcase, not the things that felt more natural for the plot and the needs and expectations of the audience. An “accounting” rather than a “story”. Ironic, given the importance given to the necessities of the plot.
I wonder if Altair, the fanfic, beating the established Creators at their own game was some sort of acknowledgement of their limitations in that regard.
Maybe some things got lost in translation when Aoki ported Hiroe’s draft story for Re Creators for anime. Some have noted the draft has lots of extra details, like extended Magane dialogue and Altair having nightmares of Setsuna’s death. But if the draft was already full of meta-reflections and commentary to begin with, then you could blame Hiroe for that.
I can’t admit to speak on their behalf though. The best way would be to question either Aoki or Hiroe themselves, when they come to an anime convention near your location.
Lost in translation potentially, particularly if in terms of story structure. It seems the writers intended on getting all the “boring” information out of the way early to save for the juicy stuff, but didn’t know exactly how to showcase it.
It might have been a case of time and not having enough to come up with some suitable slice of life moments, or just a lack of imagination and willingness to dress up the Meteora info dumps—I don’t think we will ever know. Regardless Re:Creators is a pretty good case study for showing why filler and slice of life is necessary even in the most serious of shows.
Thank you Meteora for saving the world. Thank you for saving Tokyo and making anime great again lol.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2007.jpg
With that said, im not quite sure how to handle the overall ending as a whole. Yes Selesia and Matsubara’s part still stings and made me all teary, and i loved how they wrapped everyones ending properly and giving some proper goodbyes. Hikayu was sweet giving her creator a good hug despite how pervert he was XD Both Sho and Yuuya had a blast with their creator. And Kanoya surely did what i expected him to: getting a gunpla of his own XD
All in all, im glad i followed this anime through and through. Its very experimental, and too many technical focus that im getting sick of to a point where i hope they would used some of them for the creations’ emotion developments. But thats just me, i know i sometimes prefer to see the characters playing under the sun with no metaworries at all. Sota and Meteora’s moment was kawaiisugiru <3 too bad they both dont really share the same sentiment as we shippers do. Oh welp.
At least Kikuhara and Metchin wrapped it up with some good hug ^^ ahh, i can imagine how tense it was for them clenching their teeth and holding their breath for the whole time while trying their best to remain calm (we know these two are pro at being pro). That hugguu was very relieving.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2002.jpg
Ahh the onion. How we love these two until the end.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2033.jpg
I was seriously hoping they would show some Selesia scene somewhere in the end. Too bad they only show her short PV like theres nothing happen (i know i know…but still).
So now we know Meteora is planning to become a writer. Looks like only Meteora and Magane got out lol. Btw Meteora looks really normal with her hair down like that! Dangggg! I wonder how old she is in her ID lol…
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2037.jpg
Ahh cant really say i enjoyed this series 100%. There were some of the moments where i felt like i cannot accept or i feel like not much of explainations going on there (though i know i'd be like, pls spare me w the long explainations). I was really hoping to see more Selesia and her reactions and all. </3
Thank you God-Sawano for the majestic music, thank you TROYCA for the anime, thank you Hiroe Rei-sensei for the story and THANK YOU PANCAKES FOR BLOGGING THIS! (always has the highest comments and engagements in Re: Creators' topic every week)
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2039.jpg
Thanks for liking it! For all my criticism above I did have a blast blogging this and it certainly made Saturdays fun to look forward to. As you mention it was a little experimental, but it did what it set out to do and gave us some decent entertainment. Of course it could have been better, but I’ll take decent over train wreck any day of the week 😛
Recap manga for Eps 21 and 22.
https://imgur.com/XxvJ8E3
https://imgur.com/UB8MKlL
Welcome to Road to Authoring Hell, Meteora!
Full Recap manga for all 22 episodes.
https://imgur.com/a/fCrGx
Hiroe Rei said Re Creators’ story was inspired by the 1993 Arnold Schwarzenegger movie Last Action Hero, which featured action movie characters discovering the real world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Action_Hero
A lot of reviews of that time say Action Hero didn’t quite live up to its meta-analysis premise, leading me to think Hiroe may have overdone the thematic metalysing to ensure Creators properly lived up to its metaness.
On a side note, Aoki Ei will be supervising the upcoming Idolish 7 anime, done by Troyca.
Haha wow I remember that movie and can actually see the influences now that I think of it. I originally thought this was a little like Wreck It Ralph, but the involvement of the creators limits that comparison. Last Action Hero though definitely fits it like a glove and explains Re:Creators ridiculous love for meta analysis lol
Meteora: “Just as planned”
https://orig00.deviantart.net/326b/f/2017/260/4/d/keikakudhori_by_viperxtr-dbnoner.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2038.jpg
So, the entire show itself is the creation of a creation? #creationception
Seeing how it ends, it might be alright to say that the past 22 episode was in a way Meteora’s work per se. It pretty much calls back to NisioIsin’s Monogatari series where the bulk of it is narrated by Arararargi while some parts were narrated by others like 2nd-best-girl-Kaiki or Sengoku Nadeko etc.
For all you know… Meteroa is the true boss of the show.
Yes. And just like Meteora talking in the intermission show where she said the show is her creation. Clearly, Meteora is the main character Sota referred to when he stated he is the Narrator.
I really enjoyed this show, too bad an Irma, the hurricane put me behind to only comment now.
I was hurt when characters died, enjoyed all the ideas and concepts explored and touched by the ending which means to me the show did quite well.
I agree Pancakes more episodes were needed to fully do this right even though the combat action folks would have been even more bored, the set number of the episodes the industry requires almost always messes something up. At least they put in a decent length denouncement with a say good by episode. It has been popular with English teachers and mainstream critics to pan any length of denoucement. But as a fan, I will say if you like a work and its characters you need something to calm down and establish an afterward. Thus I feel a denouncement episode is very important to fan. But I love the Lord of the Rings which starts very very slowly, has huge info dumps, and massively long denouncement.
I sure hope shark girls manga does well and others clamor for more spin-offs and for the sequel hooks (to some plot holes) left to get done. On sequel, hook, is if magic is going away why was creating Altar possible, the original reason the story was even possible is still out there. Altar is too powerful to be a villain or main character but she can use her power to launch a new story and bring folks back together, stating she is too powerful now to enter many worlds but she has decided to make amends and gather her hero’s, both kill and alive to fight evils in worlds she sends them to.
Yes, the festival audience will demand more shows.
One very unrealistic thing is the government action remaining secret. The huge number of people involved means that people will talk. But with no way to prove things it will become a fun media thing to talk about with no ramifications for the government or the world as most will not truly believe. And the companies forced to comply will be no profit to make a fuss about it. So in a few years, most of the public will know the real story but now that any real proof is gone the public will treat it as fiction.
One thing I’d have to say that hasn’t already been said is how it kinda bothers me how the others were kinda pushed to go back even though Meteora was never going to leave herself.
Especially Blitz and his daughter I would’ve figured to just “retire”. Had such good chemistry with Suruga, I almost though they’d turn out like a dysfunctional family. Then again, it might bring issue when a series continues with a character still in the real world. Story Blitz loses an arm, real world Blitz suddenly finds out he’s missing one for example.
Meteora and Magane would be safe from that for the most part, as their “Gods” are dead.
As it was mention, my opinion in the end is the same as Aldnoah;Zero. An incredibly flawed show which I don’t hold against it because it was really entertaining. Besides, it was Meteora’s first story. I’d say it’s not strange she infodumped too much. 😉
My interpretation of sending the creations back was just a nice way of killing them. I also figured Meteora would want to stay because her creator died so what would she go back to exactly?
That bothered me too for certain characters. Yuuya and Shou sure, they want revenge, but why Hikayu? You’d imagine she would prefer a life of choosing her own wardrobe lol. Hell especially Blitz, he has his daughter safe and sound, no reason to head back to that nightmare.
Probably just another writer joke in the end though, they know Meteora is controversial, so they made her the last creation (Magane not included) standing 😛
Given that she’s from an eroge…she must’ve missed her boyfriend.
Setsuna x Altair fanart (inspired by Michaelangelo?)
https://i.redd.it/93o6slxlpvlz.png
Now we know why there’s a lot of Meteora talking…
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%2038.jpg
Always thought that Souta was the in universe writer, didn’t really expect it to end up being Meteora.
Overall, I really enjoyed this show. I also think they could’ve gone further with the theme, but am contempt with what we got. My biggest gripe was with the ending. I think I have trouble accepting that the audience accepted stuff enough to gain sufficient acceptance. But the presentation was at least fun.
And of course the saddest thing so far:
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%2035.jpg
This Selesia probably doesn’t know how to drive a car.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2022%20-%20Large%2009.jpg
Honestly, one should never underestimate a Creation’s ability to survive and recover. Yuya was lethally stabbed by Altair and he seems just fine much later; any normal human would be likely dead.
On the side note, I hope a certain girl, from Re:Creators One more Time, has met Shou. would have wanted to see what would happen.
Its proof to me it is to better to try and make something original – and the sereis definitely was a stab at it – and do it 70percent right than do a 99% performance on known theme(s).
Meteora actually staying behind was kinda unexpected, but boy did she play us a tease with her cough, creation, cough…
Also loved the partings between creators and creations, it really did underscore the ties binding them. Even poor eroge heroine was thankful for meeting the love of her life!
In the end the thing I want to know the most did not come through.
How did Altair come to the real world in the first place?
Is it all because of the immerse doujin works giving her the power to do so?
Someone already wrote a fanfic of this possibility?
If I was at the Chamberfest I would go WTF when Shimazaki came out and ended the story abruptly 😛
Without knowing the fate of the world rested on this rushed ending of sorts.
Feels like some parody of the rushed ending, lol
Meteora.
Having her staying in the control room with the Creator kind of feels like foreshadowing set up by the show creators. Kind of sad for her to not get to go back but her NPC job in the game seems boring though.
The Altair/Shimazaki self sustaining story-ception is kind of mindblowing.
Then in the end Metoera writes Re:CREATORS.
Feels like some paradox.
I guess later she went on to create Black Lagoon, lol.
Actually Magane didn’t go back as well but I guess her power should be gone?
She now travel the world while do odd jobs to sustain herself?
Great anime, really enjoyed watching it 🙂
Ok, Rei Hiroe is a guy.
Couldn’t be then.
A story is a story.
Thinking too much, lol