Posted by  |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
「ガリバーを縛る雑兵たち アラスカ極寒環境雪上戦 III」 (Garibaa o Shibaru Zouhyou-tachi Arasuka Gokkan Kankyou Setsujou-sen III)
“The Little Soldiers Who Tie Down Gulliver The Snowy Deep Winter Battle of Alaska III”
Goliath, meet David. Now die.
Five For Every One
“#19: Coincidences to get characters into trouble are great; coincidences to get them out of it are cheating.” -Pixar’s 22 Rules of Storytelling
I love trotting out that quote, because one of my biggest pet peeves is convenient storytelling. It’s worth mentioning it here, because much of this episode is a great example of how not to do it. First, there’s a hole in an abandoned outer building. Then Qwenthur and Havia get inside the enemy base, and it’s almost empty, because apparently these enemies are so stupid as to hardly keep any guards around. That’s convenience number two. Then they run through the base and find, to their luck, that the door is unlocked. That’s number three. By then I was already sputtering and beginning to write this section.
Not that all of the turns were done badly. When they realized that this base had a fuck ton of spare parts, that was the kind of twist that works well. That stacked the tension against Qwenthur and Havia, and made it harder for them. Which made me think: How often can a writer get away with a coincidence? Personally, I think it’s five to one. If five coincidences go against the protagonists—they run down a dead end, they stumble into their worst enemy on a first date, the charges don’t go off, the spell fizzles at an inopportune time, and a pickpocket steals the poison that was meant for the diplomat—then you can have one thing coincidentally go the protagonists’ way. So when Qwenthur found the maintenance book, that was fine—besides, that came about because he was actively looking for something he could use. Put in another way, a storyteller can cheat once in a while. It just only works if it’s only done occasionally, it’s never done at the most critical times, and if they spend most of their time making things harder for themselves instead.
The Nature of War
I feel like original creator Kamachi Kazuma has a good handle on characterization of individuals, which as far as storytelling abilities go, is quite possibly the best one to have. He’s pretty good with themes as well. But when it comes to geopolitics, human nature on a macro scale, culture, and science/technology, his knowledge gets shaky fast. Take the whole “changing nature of war” bit, and the idea of humans defeating a monstrous weapon like the Objects as surprising. I’m sorry, but that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Strategists all the way back to the time of ancient China knew the simple calculus of saboteurs: If you can spend one, two, or even ten people to take out a disproportionate amount of the enemy’s combat ability, you do that. Every time. The particulars have changed over the ages, but I can promise you this: If something like Objects come into the world today, and war broke out, someone will be trying to sabotage them on Day Two. Probably everybody.
Another fundamental misunderstanding has to do with culture. Namely, culture does not often regress on a massive scale, and if it does, there are only a few reasons why. The root of them all, though, is the loss of knowledge. (Or occasionally, manipulation of knowledge.) When the Roman Empire fell and Europe slid into the Middle Ages, or when the Mongols raped, sacked, and pillaged China and the Middle East out of several hundred years of development, there were a number of reasons why those societies regressed. But I can assure you that if the population was literate and had access to all of the world’s knowledge at their fingertips, none of that would have happened. And that’s what the internet is! Which they still have in the world of Heavy Object, at least according to Fix News.com (which is a reputably news source, balanced & fair, etc). And the idea that we could regress from total war back to civilized war—and that is a regression, trust me, even if limited war is a helluva lot nicer than total war—belies a fundamental misunderstanding of how we made that switch in the first place. (Here’s a hint: The presence of nobles like Havia is actually a good sign. But all the rest of it doesn’t add up.)
Here’s the funny thing: I could point out Heavy Object’s flaws all day, but this is still probably the show I’m enjoying blogging the most. It’s still telling an ambitious (if somewhat wobbly) story on a global scale, and it”s sidling up to some interesting themes. I like that better than the shows who don’t dare to try for great things.
Talking is a Free Action
Once again, there was an awful lot of yelling arguments in the middle of the enemy base. This definitely feels like a light novel adaptation, because the pacing goes haywire when people talk when they should be fighting and/or getting shot. Most egregious was when Qwenthur was explaining his master stroke (evil overlord much?) when the antagonists could have just shot him at any point. But you know, for all the criticisms I could levy, it felt damn good for someone to disabuse these idiots of the foolish idea that lone men can’t take down what amounts to a big-ass hovering tank. Even though Qwenthur’s epic moment did pretty much boil down to an angry mother’s shout of, “I brought you into this world, so I can take you right back out of it!”
Looking Ahead – No Reward For You
Precisely no one (audience-wise) is surprised that Qwenthur and Havia’s bravery didn’t let them escape the military, but got them sent right back out. For plot reasons only, though. Had this really been happening, I bet they could have scored a sweet Captain America-style war bonds tour instead of actually having too fight. Shoulda fought for that, boys! Now you have to spend more time with Frolaytia and Milinda. How sad for you. As long as you don’t die from the war and stuff.
tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – Qwenthur & Havia take down an Object with the power of exposition & chekhov’s self-destruct module #heavyobject 03
Random thoughts:
- Qwenthur, you lolicon.
- No good deed goes unpunished, eh gentlemen?
My first novel, Wage Slave Rebellion, is available now. (More info—now in paperback!) Sign up for my email list for a FREE sequel novella. Over at stephenwgee.com, the last four posts: The best content is in email, My morning routine, True Ends, and Rejection, the secret place, & fundamentals
Full-length images: 30.
ED & Epilogue:
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Preview
 |
I’d agree with you, but then I’d have to force myself to ignore same emptiness the other way around, as their own maintenance base is just as empty-looking (back @ episode 1).
OTOH, I’m laughing when they got posted into another battlefield. “As if they would let you two doofuses retire after only one successful battle.”
“As if they would let you two doofuses retire after only one successful battle.”
Kinda reminds me of Warhammer 40,000‘s Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!). Wants nothing more than to survive the grimdark far future of forever war, but succeeds in his given missions nonetheless. And with his every success (and every commendation), he gets sent to even more dangerous battlefields… XD
Qwenthur certainly showed the world that they need to always keep those doors locked. Plus Frolaytia can now be happy that her losing streak can now end.
The thing is, everyone probably DID try this. But when Objects were new, they were obviously extremely guarded. Skip forward some years and everyone believes Objects are invincible, no-one would dare try to sabotage them, especially not soldiers from a defeated unit.
first Sabotage. Why? Budget!!!
if they can not harm it with Sabotage, then they must speed immense Budget to catch up with the Enemy, if they are lucky
also…(sorry)
best Example Battleship Yamato and his Air-carrier Sisters Ship, where later one was really top secret. But.. you know the rest
Then, why do they keep saying how amazing it was for mere soldiers to crush an Object in “flesh and blood”? It’s not “it’s impossible to enter a well-defended base and sabotage and Object” (which would have sounded equally stupid, because saboteurs have been doing that with other targets for centuries), but “it’s impossible for non-Objects to defeat an Object, period”.
They use these Soldiers for Propaganda
As you see, these News Channels are their Allies (Fox News (Hawk faction) and BBC (British Broadcast Channel). So Great Britain is not faction with this Faith something ones
So i see this more as an Propaganda to raise the allies Troops moral
I think context is important in this case. These two nobodies overcame the odds and took out an Object that was actively hunting them.
Alternatively another reason I could think off is maybe Sabotage in the past might have only hinder or delay an Object but never truly blowing it up whole as they would just be repaired.
@WorldwideDepp
That doesn’t explain two things:
1. Propaganda about “it’s the first time our soldiers manage that” doesn’t make any sense. Because if it’s false, it means that they are keeping secret from the public equally heroic and propaganda-convenient victories for no reason at all.
2. It’s not just propaganda. Their Japanophile officer said exactly the same. Of course, she may not know about other instances… but since she was given command of an Object in Alaska and was managing another battlefront at the same time, putting such an ignorant officer in charge would be a military suicide.
Occam’s razor says we should assume that the author intended the setting that way, even if it speaks bad of the world-building.
I think people simply need to accept that the writer of this does not understand ( or possibly care) about the military logic of their setting. People keep trying to justify the rather insane ideas this story puts forward militarily, but in the end I think it is what it seems to be, just fairly nonsensical ideas.
Which is fine in fantasy, and arguably fine in sci-fi, but much more noticeable in sci-fi, which is why we all keep seeing things and going ‘haaaah….?’
Yeah, probably this. I think it’ll get better from this point on, if they’re going to start acting like they’re involved in total war where every soldier can potentially make an impact (though foot soldiers should rightly have a LOW chance of doing that, natch).
in todays wars people are trying sabtage – and often succeeding!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Nang_Air_Base#Attacks_on_the_base
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2012_Camp_Bastion_raid
it seems real world militaries do not even manage to learn own history and failures…
so I can completely see object-dependant future armed forces to grow lackluster in their guarding duties…
funny that you mention that characterization is one of kamachi’s strong points as i find it to be his weakest point no contest. Most of his characters in Index are one-dimensional. Heck if we are lucky we may get a two-dimensional character (like mikoto misaka, accelerator- even though i dont really like him). His characters are never fully explored, always playing the role of the archetype they are based off of which makes me sad sometimes. I will say that with the heavy flaws (pun intended???) littered all over this series, we are starting to get a cozy little trio happening with our three main cast and that at least counts for something. ironic that i point out the trio when i just stated that kamachi’s weakest point is his characters but hey, that’s how things play out sometimes
For me, it also applies to the villain. Kamachi’s villain aren’t always fleshed out that they feel realistic and sometimes they start to feel like they’re just there to give the main character an opponent. And as you said in Index, they’re are a lot of one-dimensional characters Show Spoiler ▼
He does do a decent job at establishing personalities for his characters and the stories are always exciting and interesting, which I admire from him, and so far Heavy Object has been somewhat of a decent anime in this season.
P.S I do sometimes question his use of dialogue since it can become unrealistic as well or awkward.
yea i questioned that event when it happened in vol 15 because it seemed more for the sake of shock value to make the volume’s tone darker. You can tell in future installments that kamachi sorta regretted making that decision. And yes, the dialogue can be kinda bad sometimes
You may have a point. I was thinking more about this series, as well as the Sisters arc of Railgun, which is fuckin’ fantastic. I can’t honestly say I think about the main Index series too much (esp since I haven’t finished the second season), when the Sisters arc from the Railgun side so completely eclipses all of it.
damn right that the sister’s arc of railgun S completely eclipses everything else from the index series. It was literally the only time i was watching the series and i was like “wow….this show can be good when it wants to be”
I’ll never get over how much that arc shouldn’t work. If it weren’t for the Index Sisters arc, the Railgun one wouldn’t work, because Kamijou Touma coming in and defeating Accelerator for Mikoto is an absolute dues ex machina in the context of the Railgun side of the story alone. But when you combine the two, and see the Index one first, you realize just how much was going on behind the scenes, and how much Touma’s actions meant to Mikoto (and the sisters), and it blows you away.
Yea absolutely; and id even argue that the railgun sister’s arc still works even with touma’s involvement without having to see the index side of it (though seeing that version agreeably enhances the experience). Throughout the arc, Mikoto had been silently crying out for someone to help her, even though she stayed quiet about her problems and intended to tackle everything on her own (build up towards someone finally stepping in). Then, just when it seemed like she had solved her problems, she meets touma, to which in this case, is almost like a happy bonus to her (hence the small smile she has at the end of ep 10 i believe) after seemingly ruining academy city’s experiments. Now this is really important because note how touma isnt introduced into the arc right when she hits rock bottom, but rather at a point where mikoto actually thinks she’s won. Had touma been brought into the arc at any other time after that, then the deus ex machina levels would have definitely been higher. After this, Touma is then introduced to one of the sister clones and we see him spend time with her, like in the index side of the story. Now i understand that there were quite a few who bemoaned the decision to add some of the index plot points into the railgun side and to this day i still wonder why people think that was a bad decision. So what if index already adapted some parts of what we are seeing? The viewer needs to see how touma gets attached to these clones so that there is a reason for him to risk his life; so that his decision to help mikoto doesnt seem to come out of nowhere as some random desire to help her, but rather from understanding. So that when he and mikoto are exchanging words on the bridge, his resolve makes more sense to us as the viewer and we can get behind his motives and why she is so moved by it. This arc was meant to be the definitive version of the sisters arc, so im pretty sure Nagai didnt want to adapt it in a way that you needed to watch one version to get the other. This is the version you should watch as it has everything and more.
And lastly, the tone of the fights between touma and accelerator in both versions are completely different. In the index version, they really play up touma being some sort of shounen hero who swoops in to save the day spectacularly, speech and all. Heck, just go back and watch the first version and listen to the music choices that play as touma Shounenesquely walks up towards accelerator to proclaim that he will defeat him or when he’s fighting him. In railgun S version, we dont get none of that. What we get is this feeling of dread. We as the viewer are meant to understand that touma is in over his head and that he shouldnt stand a chance against accelerator at all. That he’s only standing up to accelerator because he knows that his friend is in a position where she is willing to kill herself, a point that railgun S handles better. That the only reason why mikoto let him go is because there was a part of her that believed that touma could do it. The only reason why she would even have that hope in her mind other than the fact that his will to be there for her moved her, was that she herself doesnt understand touma’s powers, but only that he has beaten her without much effort in the past. Touma gets absolutely wrecked in his fight with accelerator this time around, and it is that sense of struggle, mikoto’s final involvement in the fight, and even accelerator’s own introspection during the fight, that make the whole thing work and touma’s involvement not feel too deus ex machinish. Touma earns his title as hero not because the show just gives it to him (like in the index version) but because we feel the weight of him having literally saved someone’s life (not by beating accelerator mind you, but just by stepping in and offering help, something mikoto’s friends were to “respectful” to do) and then walks out the hospital as if nothing ever happened. All of this hemmed nicely by Nagai tatsuyuki
I feel like the difference why this is a bigger deal than just a sabotage is the context.
For one thing, these are complete nobodies that are ill equip to handling the job. Secondly, they’re already being hunted by the Object. Thirdly, they pulled this off literally through the skin of their teeth by improvisation and huge luck.
btw didn’t they cut the hole in the fence?
Yes. But there was a hole in the abandoned outbuilding, which was what was convenient.
“Take the whole “changing nature of war” bit, and the idea of humans defeating a monstrous weapon like the Objects as surprising. I’m sorry, but that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Strategists all the way back to the time of ancient China knew the simple calculus of saboteurs: If you can spend one, two, or even ten people to take out a disproportionate amount of the enemy’s combat ability, you do that. Every time. The particulars have changed over the ages, but I can promise you this: If something like Objects come into the world today, and war broke out, someone will be trying to sabotage them on Day Two. Probably everybody.”
Exactly.
With the way they were talking about the two destroying the Object like it was somehow some sort of historic moment that was never done before in any degree, all I could think was, “Really? Never before in these conflicts has ANY of the military powers in the world EVER tried to send in any kind of Special Ops squad(s) to try to sabotage/steal the secrets of an opposing power’s Object from the inside?” I mean, even if Objects were probably very heavily guarded early on, that’s what Special Ops groups are trained to overcome. Unless every military power had their entire army guarding the Object, it’s shouldn’t really be anything that a Special Ops group(s) can’t handle.
As for the talk on regression, it would be like if today’s world and military suddenly just regressed back to the age of WWI, with unspoken “honor systems”, at least among certain groups of people. The problem with such things is that it relies entirely on hoping that everyone plays by that system without anyone or anything actually enforcing it, but if and when someone doesn’t play by those “rules”, it comes off as such a shock to everyone else who has been, making them angry and demand that something be done about it…only to remember that, again, there’s nothing actually enforcing that system, which is what our characters had to learn the hard way.
https://randomc.net/image/Heavy%20Object/Heavy%20Object%20-%2003%20-%20Large%2030.jpg
And the highlight of the episode. <3
A lot of the rules of war (and there are quite a few of them) have actually survived relatively well. Of course, we’re not going to go back to WWI-break-for-tea-and-play-football, but international custom is still, in the big picture, an important part of conflict. We simply don’t hear much good about it because 1) when it’s in place nobody talks about it 2) most wars are asymmetrical these days (and often involving non-state actors), where the rules aren’t really applicable. While it’s true that there is not a world police to enforce them, they are abided by because there is a long term interest for most states to have these rules, in the same way MAD has also held.
The rules of war has changed. In the new era for man is War against Terrorism and drone strikes.
That doesn’t really change what Passerby said. They specifically pointed out that most modern wars are asymmetrical and therein lies much of the reason things are changing.
However, that in and of itself is not that strange. The first rule of war has always been the aggressor makes the rules. As such, non-state actors and/or oppressive, tyrannical regimes will always have more operational freedom since they don’t really answer to anyone but themselves.
Also, drone strikes really aren’t that special. They do the same thing air strikes have always done, they just weird us out because they’re not manned so they turn killing into a video game.
I’ll back up what Passerby has said. War never changes in the sense of evolving or regressing, rather the act “expands” per say into new territory, engulfing areas previously considered off limits. The rules never change, instead new rules are simply pasted on top.
Total war is probably the best representation of the idea, before Napoleon’s levee en masse no state ever considered mass conscription for example, whether due to economic motivation (ex. farming, manufacturing) or suddenly possessing an army of commoners who may not want to relinquish their weapons. Likewise WWI introduced the blurring between civilian and military, creating a set of “caveats” that would result in the mass destruction witnessed in WW2.
Today as well 4th generation war is nothing new, guerilla tactics as we know it have been used since the Seven Years War. The only difference is who is performing the actions. The lack of rules in these engagements is simply because the non-state actors initiating the actions believe they have no reason to follow the preexisting arrangements. As Kale mentions, the aggressor always sets the rules.
What PB said. The nice thing is that the people who abide by the rules usually don’t fight each other anymore, because if they did, it would … it would not be good. It would not be good at all. The world’s powers have gotten way too good at killing people. If we were fighting army vs army, it would … yeah. Not be good.
Those rules have largely held, because all the actors realize it’s to their benefit to hold them. They break down when one side doesn’t think the other can retaliate in kind (I think the US and napalm in Vietnam has been mentioned before, ’cause the US’s enemies at the time didn’t have it to retaliate with), or when one side realizes that they don’t have to follow the rules, and they don’t feel they have anything to lose. It’s not good to back people into a corner for that reason, and non-state actors start out with far less to lose.
Havia did mention “watime conventions pertaining to POWs”, didn’t he? So rules of war exist even in this setting. How close they are to Geneva conventions remains to be seen. It’s just that the Faith Organization seems to believe itself above human laws.
https://randomc.net/image/Heavy%20Object/Heavy%20Object%20-%2003%20-%20Large%2024.jpg
My favorite shot throughout the whole episode. AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
“Squad 7, move out!”
Oh wait, wrong series.
This episode made me laugh. Hard. Two episodes spent building up our scientifically impossible Objects to be invulnerable killing machines (except against their ilk), just to suddenly about face and have 2 guys sabotage one with little effort? And act like it’s an amazing new discovery? It’s a little much to take at face value. Now an argument could be made for plot development here, but the whole edifice is stretched when it’s remembered that Water Strider was a second generation Object. It’s incredibly hard to believe that no one has ever found such a weakness until this point when the concept is likely >20 years old. As mentioned back in episode 1, it does not take long for someone to find a way to cheaply and efficiently destroy your “ultimate” weapon, guaranteed.
What irks me more however is the utter lack of background material regarding Heavy Object’s universe so far. We have two state names and no maps (except for episode 1 briefly IIRC), a conflict in Alaska with no basis for the viewer, and now what looks like a shift over to Gibraltar with a similar (as of yet) unnamed war. I know the show is supposedly episodic (in terms of arcs), but IMO both characters and the story seriously lack grounding.
Nevertheless though I’ll probably keep on watching this until the end. It’s starting to get fun
tearingpoking holes in Heavy Object and when the show can focus on combat without any of the aggravating Object invincibility/war changing talk it’s pretty fun to watch. Ironically I’m finding Heavy Object to be a little like Gate, just with the overt Japanese patriotism replaced with reverence for a spherical fantasy tank 😛“just to suddenly about face and have 2 guys sabotage one with little effort?”
There were plenty of effort involved though. Sneaking into an enemy base, finding the right turbine to rig and removing the right sensors within 45seconds.
Though leaving the maintenance manual lying around was extremely convenient.
A logbook probably wouldn’t be something that people would think to keep it under lock and key considering they’re switching out turbines regularly so that would just be an inconvenience.
Figuring out the next number on the list might not be that hard, but figuring out the right sensor to pull in that heat of the moment is pretty impressive.
Don’t forget the whole “planes and tanks are useless now”, because Objects > everything else.
Yet now we discover that if that very specialized Object had lost its maintenance support, it would have become a piece of useless junk in the snow. So, couldn’t some planes have bombed the hell out of the enemy base while the Object was distracted? Or sending scouts, commandos, the army is more than just cool war-machines.
With such a glaring vulnerability (they are not just expensive to build, but expensive to maintain, and specialized Objects are especially vulnerable to that), I just can’t suspend my disbelief with this.
They ware fleeing from the destroyed base. it was an Miracle they get this Tanks and Planes in time at the right place
They’re useless against Objects, they didn’t say they were useless at all.
@Chaos2Frozen
They didn’t say it? From this last episode:
“Never mind fighter planes, they don’t even have tanks. So, they’ve eliminated superfluous personnel and outdated weapons to pour all their money and strength into Objects”.
From the first episode:
“In this day and age, combat is left entirely up to Objects“.
Yeah, in direct confrontation. I figure that didn’t need to be stated.
also, when they still want to maintain an Object or perhaps more then 1, and even Human Armys. Only rich Countries can pull this off
If they invent some Heavy Object Armor penetration Weapons, that can be mounted on old Tanks, Planes and Ships and so on. They tide of War change again
The “Ants” can harm the Object to immobility or Sneak Attacks, with the combine power of an Object.. others would say coward tactics, but hey, they are big holes of Budget sinkers
example, how many cost was there to move Maus? Yamato and such.. They where big Fuel sinkers at their time..
So, with an (i say) Plasma penetrate coating Ammo, Army is back into play. But for rich countries (for OP protection)
Of course, against Objects. That’s not the problem.
The problem is that everyone, from our characters in episode 1 to the Faith Organization in episode 3 expects every combat to happen between Objects, to the point they don’t care about the rest. The more we know about Objects, the less sense it makes.
Why wouldn’t they want to leave it to the Objects? Who would be willing to risk their lives when there is a super death machine that would do the fighting for them. Especially when they’re not defending their capital but a frozen wasteland in the middle of nowhere.
@Chaos2Frozen
That soldiers wouldn’t want to risk their lives hasn’t mattered to military strategists before. The thing is, we’re shown that strict Object-only tactics leave the big machines incredibly vulnerable to attacks on their supply lines. Since Objects are very expensive and the backbone of every powerful army in the setting, you would expect the generals of the world would think of ways of taking them down with minimal cost.
But it hasn’t happened. Until now, or so we are told.
If only, I commend this first episodes for pointing out that overconfidence in one’s technology is bad. “Who would be willing to risk their lives when there is a super death machine that would do the fighting for them”? Well, as seen here, if the machine falls, the enemy machine can wipe them out if so they wish. Better safe than sorry.
Chaos2Frozen:
Umm… what the hell are you talking about? The first episode made very clear that everything but objects were useless now, to the point that clearing the damn runway so that planes could even take off was seen as useless busywork and a waste of time. This is literally the DEFINING CHARACTER MOMENT of the first episode, having the two leads point out repeatedly how stupid it is that they have to clear the runway since planes don’t do anything.
And the entire premise of the show, literally the ONLY premise, is that Objects have made everything else obsolete. It’s not ‘someone built bigger tanks and now we’ve incorporated them into our military strategy’ it’s ‘wars are now fought solely by Object duels and even being a soldier is considered a mostly safe, pointless occupation.’ Have you been watching?
Yeah, that! I guess the show was hoping that would tie into the whole idea of “limited war” that it was trying to push, but supply lines are PART of the military apparatus. It’s not like they’re bombing civilians then. They’re soldiers! They’re fair game. They should have never been considered anything but fair game.
As a military otaku I find a few gripes:
Arguing while in the middle of an infiltration/sabotage mission: facepalm
Rigging an infrared seeker to communicate with satellites?: WTF? AFAIK IR seekers are passive sensors, so there’s no signal for satellites to detect.
If it was a laser designator, they could pump up the output to extend the range, hopefully reaching the satellite and establishing a laser comm link, but good luck with that. 😛
Grabbing the enemy commander’s radio and use it to detonate the C4 charges: plausible, if he can set it to the right frequency.
Good thing the enemy commander had a flair for drama, or else they’d be shot dead on sight instead of being captured then given a long-winded speech on how they’ll be killed and the girl tortured. LOL
Manually ejecting the spent cartridge like a bolt-action rifle, even though it looks like a semi-automatic Barrett M82/M107: fail, or did it jam due to the sub-zero conditions? And wouldn’t the enemy commanders’ head be blown off with a round as big as a .50 BMG?
I’m sure there’s more, but they’re the ones that I remember.
As they explained, while infiltrating the Base, the enemy got to careless, thinking they already won and got slacking to much for their own good
I think it’s more than that as well, they’re literally betting all in on their Object so they ‘spare no expense’ with it’s maintenance and spare parts. But resources isn’t infinite and something has got to give.
Hence the low security in both equipment and manpower.
https://randomc.net/image/Heavy%20Object/Heavy%20Object%20-%2003%20-%2042.jpg
Looks like we’re going to the Big Shell next episode.
nah, they give some “Snake” a hand with his Base 🙂 (MGS 5 reference for starters)
This show has really has fallen for me. I’m really trying hard to like it but the fact that its entire premise trips on itself because of the writer’s weak grasp on everything making the premise interesting is really sad. I’d nitpick but then I’d feel bad because I’m still wanting to give this series a chance.
Hey, at least the girls are cute and the banter is amusing.
first picture looks like edward elric
i want to explain something.
in the Past someone found out, that Big Magnum’s Armor or even the first Prototype they show us in Episode 1, are weak against heat and it melts. So, Heat weapons are its arc enemy, or they invent a heat resident Armor in the successors Objects.
So, our Water glider must have used a Weapon, burning and with the heat of our Sun. In present real-life world, they try to use the Sun power as energy source, an Plasma reactor.
So, Weapons like a Sun, what armor could resist against that?. That was my conclusion that Water Glider’s Weapons must be Plasma or Heavy Plasma (heavy because the Big shooting ray). Also in Battlemech universe (USA Gundam’s something) they are common weapons, but generate an extreme heat that needs to be cooled or the Pilot inside get grilled like an Chicken
That’s all behind this idea. Just look at the current World or Movie world (“Eraser” with Schwarzenegger and this Rifle as example) to get your Fantasy Weapons near to reality. Of course you can invent complete Anime only (Phisics and such) ones. But try not to add to much “asspulls” secrets 🙂 (i do not mean it in a bad way) Just for future references
even “Future Boy Conan” has already used Magnetic Weapons (today we would say Gravity weapons) that can event sink an entire Continent
Gravity Weapons are still to much Sci-fi, even today. But almost plausible to except this in Animes
Well they call it a “Low Stability Plasma Cannon”. The special gas it uses for the plasma is what was used in their self destruct mechanism.
If the Studio want to save some Money in animating other Heavy Objects (and Design them).
Let them “invent” some Tank Ammo or Airplanes Weapon that can Penetrate Objects Armors, like we have Ammo with Nuclear coating that can Penetrate heavy Armors. Something like an Plasma coating, that can penetrate the Objects Big Hull Armor, like Jelly with a chemical Plasma reaction on the Surface of the Ammo/Rocket
Voila, you can use the Tanks and Planes and all other Current World vehicles
Eh, it’s an adaptation, the Objects were already designed.
Plus bring tanks and other vehicles to bear against Objects goes against the main setting. Using them as a finisher like this when the Object has been taken out is fine.
Okay. I knew they just adapt the Manga. But is the Manga still ongoing? then they can give the “useless” foot soldiers again a meaning
Well there are two manga adaptations.
“Heavy Object” is a oneshot that adapts only the first chapter of the LN vol 1.
“Heavy Object S” is the continuation of the rest of the stories, so this is the one you want.
The LN is currently at Vol 10.
Sarah Palin approves the maverickiness of Qwen and Havia.
Heck, even as LN reader I feel that the dialogue in this episode extremely strenous… It’s been a long time since I read it, back then I thought more than half of their conversation is in the form of exposition… They should’ve cut halve of it in the anime, sometimes way too faithful to the LN made the flaws more apparent in this case…
We just get a sort of time dilation problem when an LN is adapted to anime. Dialogue you can get away with in a book needs to be trimmed to fit the flow in a passive, visual medium like TV. It wasn’t here.
And Gate got splitted into next year for this? I expected way better for being Index and Railgun’s author, but this is just plain boring dialogues, plot armor and haxx and contradicting your own setting in barely 1 episode.
No, GATE did not got Split into next year for this
Article 9 heated Discussions, was an heavy thing and save harbor decision
and also, with this the production Studio stress is a bit lifted. So a Win-Win situation for all
Well, mayhaps those religious zealots were so sure that their gods would protect them and their “Prometheus” (that one gave me a good laugh) that they never bothered to do… well, anything that a normal military would.
This is only the opening salvo after all, so I can let all those happy coincidences slide this once. It will start being a problem if that keeps happening from here on out though.
All in all, an enjoyable episode, so I say.
ALSO.
https://randomc.net/image/Heavy%20Object/Heavy%20Object%20-%2003%20-%2030.jpg
Ah, three episodes in and I already know the first Heavy Object wall scroll I’m going to buy. 😉
a
… Sorry, I pressed the wrong button!
It’s nice how Stilts mentions everything I was thinking about while the episode, and more. Still I think I’ll continue to watch the show even if my expectations have somewhat dropped.
The thing I disliked the most this ep was Miss Elite Pilot. She had one job but instead of doing it she goes and gets captured again… why? What was she trying to achieve? That didn’t even work as a distraction. So stupid.
Do not forget the Age of these “Kids”. Yes Kids
Sure, kids. But kids with some sort of training. And the question still remains what she tried to achieve with this and why she didn’t even warn her friends beforehand that the enemy was returning?
She is 14, she is only trained to Pilot the Object. And if she would use the Raido, she feared they get uncovered because of the Noise the Radio would make on their end
So, what could she do? not experienced on Foot soldiers battlefield? Try to gain time so that they can succeed their Mission. She wanted to gain time so that foot soldiers stay out as long as possible of the Hanger
If she had transmitted the object would have picked it up. Not only would it have known she was there, it would have known there was someone else there for her to be transmitting to. That would have given them away just as surely as anything else.
https://randomc.net/image/Heavy%20Object/Heavy%20Object%20-%2003%20-%20Large%2031.jpg
Everyone is lolicon for Milinda Brantini…. EVERYONE!
is her boobs big or is it flat? they cant seem to decide
https://randomc.net/image/Heavy%20Object/Heavy%20Object%20-%2001%20-%20Large%2027.jpg
I’m gonna guess Milinda’s boobs only look bigger whenever she’s in her pilot suit (because of the heavy padding required to absorb physical shocks).
@Incognito
Is that how you justify that? shock absorbers? Really?
Meh… Sure, I’ll bite ^.^
Honestly there are so many ways to completely negate an Objects effectiveness that it isn’t funny.
As noted by the show, each object requires a massive supply infrastructure. That means unless each and every supply convoy or flight is escorted by an Object, conventional weapons are still a major player. Kinda like King Tigers, hell on tracks until they have no fuel, parts, or ammo.
The weapons on the objects themselves, while truly devastating, are extremely limited in use. Most are line of sight, including the AA lasers. This means standoff weapons, with an over the horizon capability, are still effective. Think about a flight of cruise missiles, flying map of the earth, off radar until the last moment, targeting the mobile bases.
I’d also love to see them fight in an urban battle. A suprise drop of any kind of infantry in the enemy’s urban or pruduction center would mean the assured destruction of the target. Either by the infantry or from a reacting Object. Such a drop would be easy to achieve with no conventional forces ready for intercept.
And the number one weakness is the “elites” themselves. Just kill the pilot and the Object is useless. Assassination would be extremely effective in this universe of over confidence. Keep killing the ultra rare compatible humans and we’re back to conventional force of arms. All though they might adress the world of espionage later.
Exactly.
My only guess is that the point of the Object was the writer attempting to imagine the question of what could the anti-nuke be? In the way that nukes changed the face of war via being a thing of overwhelming power, the Objects, in principle, are supposed to have changed the face of war by being a thing of overwhelming defense.
In principle I could see where the writer may have been going. The problem is it shows a complete lack of understanding of war. Having a single unkillable target, no matter how fast or well-armed, is simply irrelevant. Even if it COULD take a nuke head-on, it doesn’t matter cause you don’t use nukes to destroy tanks, you use them to destroy cities, so yay, your tank survived but the city around it did not. That means the nuke STILL SUCCEEDED AT ITS JOB.
I’m not going to go into larger strategic things, but suffice to say one invincible asset doesn’t change anything. We’ve come close to invincible assets several times in history (early ironclads for example). They simply don’t help that much. Speed and maneuverability on a very wide scale are king. And as modern asymmetrical wars show, really advanced technology only gets you so far.
Y’know, all this talk of suspension of disbelief in regards to the intricacies of warfare in this series reminds me of one major thing: that it helps raise issues and point out flaws so that I remember them when constructing my own series.
So KaleRylan, would you help me in my quest? Reply if you’re interested.
Umm… I guess? It depends on your questions.
Well then. Can’t divulge much here due to fears of IP theft and I can’t just give away contact particulars. Also, this here ain’t really the place to talk about it. So, any ideas?
You would have to imagine that in a world like this sabotage should be far more commonplace.
Sending a single spy to sabotage a giant robot should be just as effective as sending a giant robot of your own, especially with how maintenance intensive all these giant robots are.
Hell there should be an entire branch of the military dedicated to spymaster engineers or something.
Lance N’ Masques seems more credible at this point!
This series has some of the stupidest dialogue I’ve seen in Anime. She
should have never left her assigned position; they, should not have had
any argument about the merits of rescuing her; banging his fist against a
hollow metal structure drumming their existence, talking loud enough for
anyone to hear, and a comedy of other mistakes made me scream & cringe!
I’ll keep watching this trainwreck!
I think those higher ups wants both of them dead that’s why they’re reinstated on the battlefield because they broke an unwritten law (in HO universe) that Object can’t be beaten with personnel alone.
That … could be. I’m not sure, since we don’t have any information yet, but that could be. Hm. Interesting idea, regardless.
Here’s Show Spoiler ▼
Budget saving tactic.. if this would spread out, the Money Budget would surly grown little, and i bet some Money land in their own Pockets
Now now Havia if your already beautiful commanding officer Froleytia likes Japanese culture and wants to wear a kimono that makes her even more gorgeous, let’s not question that.
Also with the way the Princess whispered gambatte to Havia and Qwenthur, which is so cute, how can they fail.
Anyways I already mentioned how Qwenthur declaring to take down an Object already feels like Metal Gear, but that snowy terrain setting and the look of the enemy base…makes it feel like Shadow Moses Island all the more. It was a really clever move by Qwenthur too on how he took down that Water Strider. One thing I’m still not clear on however is the use of the sensor. Is it that the sensor acts as a damage level gauge? Way I see it, if that sensor was still on, it would determine that a damaged leg is no big threat and will prevent the system from self-destructing the Object. So without it even a small internal explosion in the Object will tell the system it’s inoperative and make it self destruct.
Water Strider/Prometheus self-destructing into a million pieces could have been averted if the designers had bothered to install backup sensors in case of the primary sensor’s loss or failure. Then again, the whole thing is already a complex piece of machinery as it is. The Object’s needed maintenance alone is already staggering in terms of logistics.
I wonder if the next enemy Object is genre savvy about the importance of redundant/backup systems…
That’s also what I’m wondering, whether Qwenthur’s fights with Objects will all involve him just sabotaging something from the inside to make the Objects blow up, since he himself said that all objects have a self-destruct mechanism that triggers when certain conditions are met. I’m guessing one way or another, Qwenthur’s method will become known by a lot and so engineers will have to find ways to make Objects less prone to sabotage. Definitely, seeing what’s Qwenthur going to do next is going to be a reason for me to follow this show.
You’re right in an important way, Zhinvu. The next arc will better show what this show is going to try to be. Whether it’s going to all be Qwenthur sabotaging Objects, or something else.
Enjoyed it even though it’s as military stupid as the average mech show or Star Wars watched all of Clone Wars too. Star Wars examples, broadside guns on a spaceship, never use artillery except one episode then forget about it again, huge globs of troops charging on foot with no machine gun like blasters set up even though they have them in the show.
Military custom can vary but it was weird for solders to be receiving medals in civilian clothes with a commander also in civilian clothes when there are some in the room in uniform.
As far as I can tell military people wearing civilian clothes at all is a fairly recent development. Yes every day of the year military stayed in uniform even on leave. In part because of the understanding that not being in uniform was against the rules of war and would earn you being shot if captured. This rule actually was a good one as it reduced the chance of killing civilians and we probably should go back to it. (Stilts as your book is modern world running on magic genre I give you pass and assume modern practice on off duty uniforms is ok, book is great)
Mass conscription on a lower scale was the norm in the middle ages. Each noble would be expected to take a levy of their serfs to war. These troops normally were quite poor and limited the time for campaign as they needed to get home to bring in the crops. But yes Napoleons draft was the first to put people in the regular army in an organized way in massive numbers that I can recall. The navies had been impressing poor fools they could capture to crew the ships long before that. The US after founding required all able bodied white males to be in the militia, tried to have every one armed and held drills.
Stilts on killing the enemy even when respecting them this is often the result of a good officers study of the possible enemies. A good officer tries to learn the culture and develop and empathy for a people so when fighting them you can get inside how they think. Side effect you get to like them. So a good general is killing enemy he respects and expending his own solders that the general cares deeply for. Quite a mental balancing act and why many generals try to push their countries to avoid war when possible. Try to avoid war does not mean that the same general will refuse to fight, no the general will go back to the necessary acts that must be done for the generals country. Non commissioned officers and solders can also come to like a enemy culture in a less formal way. And after the fighting is over veterans make connections and often meet their enemies in reunions at battle fields. Veterans even form bonds with a hated enemy in example the Japanese and the Vietnamese and hold joint ceremonies at battle fields. Often I have heard that Veterans often find their former enemy easier to relate with than those who have never served on their side.
And of course the good, has understanding and appreciation of the enemy, soldier is the one you don’t want to have the drop on you as the good soldier has already fired to kill if that’s whats required for the mission. To the good soldier killing is just something you have to do no point in delaying it, no need to talk or explain, an unpleasant task to get done and regret is something for after the conflict.
The Napoleonic Wars were the first time that a nation-state conscripted the nation as a whole. That’s what allowed France, as a nation to stand up to everyone else all at once—they had their entire population engaged, and they could lose 30,000 people a month and not be bothered by it. By comparison, all of their enemies couldn’t lose 30,000 PERIOD without it being a major loss. Until they started conscripting their entire nations, of course.
And thank you for the compliment! And for the comment. It was interesting, as always.
Two words: Assymetrical warfare. You don’t take on a far more advanced enemy head on; you go around it, find weak spots to exploit that will cripple the enemy’s initiative, and then counterattack. The savvy commander should also know that this is what the enemy can also do to him and his forces.
Anyway, I could’ve sworn that the leader of those enemy troops was voiced by Atsushi Imaruoka (best known as the voice of Rudol von Stroheim in JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Battle Tendency). I mean, look at how he hams up the superiority of his Object (no innuendo intended) in front of Quenthur, Havia and Milinda…right before he’s proven wrong.
(In any case, feel free to confirm or correct me if Mr. Imaruoka’s name does or does not appear in the credits.)
Yeah, the author doesn’t seem to have much background in military tactics and warfare, but numerous shows have had flaws in those areas. Maybe not quite to this extent, but whatever. As long as they don’t start contradicting what’s been established (for example, someone baiting an Object away to airstrike its base would actually be an issue for me now), I can chalk up their poor tactics to magic pixie dust. Don’t tell me that all of these obvious tactics could only be thought of after Qwenthur and Havia did their thing; if you haven’t used them by now, these tactics must not exist. Nevertheless, I’ve enjoyed the series so far, so I’ll keep watching.
I understand, I really do, that they need to make Objects nearly indestructible for plot’s sake. But this has gone way too far. It looked like sabotage was never an idea going through anyone’s head in the first place (First of all, how could someone develop something THAT humongous in the first place? Darth Vader should learn how to build a Death Star from these guys). A huge, top-secret, top-tech, mass composed of layers and layers of who knows which alloy has its maintenance manual casually resting on a table (I bet someone would be killed if perchance the sabotage failed). I almost complied to Qwenthur rationale, as it was certainly the best explanation of the day. But are you sure even the PILOT can’t have the judgement to override the auto self-destruction system sometimes?
Although this irritates me, I’ll keep watching, for I really like badass characters who can deal this kind of stuff. As I said, I understand the reason they did this, but I just can’t agree with it, let’s see how it further develops from now on…
Those little soldiers didn´t tied up Gulliver, they made him eat a bomb and watch the bastard blow up sky high!. But you know what Stilts-san, Quenser and Havia were sent into the frontlines because their own military hates their guts, think about it, they don´t want to sabotage other Objects as you mention because mandkind has grown accustomed top this “clean wars”, almost no casualties, 50-50 chances of profit and they just need to keep developing new Objects, they see this insane scenario as predictable and controlable; our idiot heroes proove the whole war is wrong, the sistem they love so much is at risk. Mankind has grown lazy and I can see that happening if something like Objects come to be someday, people who hold power are the prime of control freaks and the system roveided by the monstrous Objects gives them exacly that and now it went BOOOM!.
The anime is missing a few very important things from the original novels. For example, it explains why there could get to the enemy base so easily, this was not a “coincidence”, it was a consequence of how the current armies were organized after Objects become “a synonymous of war”. It is a pity that the anime was not able to tell us this concept more deeply and an Object looks like just a tank with steroids …
Anyway, don’t try to compare it with real stuff, the whole concept of Heavy Object is just the opposite. Soldiers and weapons become completely obsolete. The author is constantly playing with that idea.
Episode 2 got my hope up, and this episode flushed it all down the drain…
the resolve is plain lazy…
I’ll still watch it, it’s still good anime.. but not great..
Ep 04:
Show Spoiler ▼
Show Spoiler ▼