First Impressions / Log Horizon

「アキバへの帰還」 (Akiba e no Kikan)
“Return to Akihabara”

It’s a game but also not a game; the more our heroes learn about the world of Elder Tales, the more real it becomes.

Food Orgasm

I have never in my life seen anyone enjoy a meal as much as this. Shiroe’s team either needs to make sure Nyanta never leaves them or make Naotsugu reroll whatever his stupid subclass is into Chef, because after a meal like this I don’t think they can go back to tasteless mush. What I found interesting was that cooking requires both the Chef subclass and cooking the ingredients like they would IRL. I had forgotten that Shiroe and co did try to cook the normal way back in episode three, so it makes sense that both would be required. For this and other reasons, the world of Elder Tales is increasingly looking like a real world with fantasy MMORPG systems laid over it.

The People of the Land

Speaking of, there were strong parallels between the food and the people of the land. Its been shown multiple times that the NPCs are acting a lot more alive than traditional NPCs should, including fear, varied conversation responses, detailed backstories, long-term memory unrelated to PCs, and, you know, acting like human beings. It’s interesting to put ourselves in their shoes and realize that what Shiroe said was right – it’s the PC adventurers that are the weird ones, not the People of the Land. Mostly this shows a lot of empathy on Shiroe’s part. No wonder he’s a hard support.

So Obvious

Seriously Serara, you’re not fooling anyone. Not that she’s trying to? She remains super cute though, and her rabu-rabu vibes bringing out some blushing from Akatsuki as well…woohoo, way to go Serara-chan!

But seriously, could they have not spent that whole journey power leveling Serara a bit? They’re a Teacher System but no Apprentice System? She’ll never get to stay with her neko-husband like this!

Worried About the Twins

Okay, I’m calling them out – here be some false tension. One of the problems with basing a story on an MMORPG is that a lot of the common MMO systems destroy basic narrative tension, such as the ability to instantaneously talk to any of your friends. That’s why they had to make it so characters could only add people to their friends list if they were in the same area, which I think we all agree is bad game design. Once again the communication system in particular has threatened the narrative tension, and this time it struck a decisive blow.

If you’re worried about the twins, Shiroe, why don’t you just call them! And there’s nothing standing between Minori (Tamura Nao) and Touya (Yamashita Daiki) contacting Shiroe other than pride or not wanting to bother him, though honestly that’s enough. It’s Shiroe being worried about them and not contacting them that rankles. As a storyteller I would have either given him good reason to not be worried about them – the two of them telling him they were alright perhaps, or seeing them having fun with their new guild (even if it turns ugly immediately after he sees them) – or not have him be worried about them at all. Yes, it’s in his nature to worry, but if he weren’t helping them right before the apocalypse then he could have easily just not thought about them until he came across them, much like with Nyanta. Poor communication kills (trope!), people, and this is one time where the ball was well and thoroughly dropped when it could have easily been run in for a touchdown. Or something. Sports reference!

Looking Ahead

Looks like next episode they’re going to be confronting the predation of lower level, weak adventurers by the high level and strong. That’s all well and good, and it’s something I wouldn’t be surprised to see in a situation like this, but I do wish they would confront that whole why-the-hell-are-we-trapped-in-this-“game” problem a little more. Actually, it’s not even that – I wish they would worry about it! Even just some occasional existential worry or consciously pushing the worry aside until they can do something about it would be fine. I’m still having fun, but I feel like that should be a bigger deal.

tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – Food porn, beleaguered lowbies, & NPCs that are people too. Also, everyone knows you wub Nyanta, Serara. Give it up! #loghorizon 05

Random thoughts:

  • The knee to the face is back! Man, Akatsuki was really harsh to Naotsugu this episode, from the continual punishment to his new names of Bakatsugu, Dekatsugu and more. Fortunately he still deserves it. Hilarious!
  • Don’t ask perverted questions about middle school girls Naotsugu what the hell.
  • Akatsuki with her hair down showing midriff hnnnng~
  • I forgot to mention – on the Teacher System, I bet the reason why Touya’s party was having so much trouble is that Elder Tales was designed to give level-appropriate encounters, so if someone is radically higher level than the rest of their group then the mobs’ levels will be skewed upwards and the lowbies will get run over. Hence the Teacher System. That’s almost certainly why Shiroe dropped his level to play with them, and also so he wouldn’t one-shot things and they could earn some experience.
  • Serara, I think you may have a problem. An adorable, adorable problem. Serara is adorable, is what I’m trying to say.

Check out my blog about storytelling and the fantasy novel I’m writing at stiltsoutloud.com. The last four posts: My stance on piracy, The three main rules of storytelling, I’ve never regretted any of them, and Great stories make you stop…and just feel.

Full-length images: 10, 16, 22.

 

Preview

119 Comments

    3. WE are suppose to see the whole picture here while Shiroe still needs to sort it all out. It’s pretty obvious it’s going to happen anyway; the next ep is called “Resolve” of all things.

      Megas
      Reply

  2. But seriously, could they have not spent that whole journey power leveling Serara a bit? They’re a Teacher System but no Apprentice System? She’ll never get to stay with her neko-husband like this!

    Get her home safely first. She has guildmates there who can help take care of her and level her. If she gets killed before they reach Akiba, she’ll rez back in Susukino, which would be a disaster. Rather than take chances, just head back to safety and let her work on her leveling from there.

    I forgot to mention – on the Teacher System, I bet the reason why Touya’s party was having so much trouble is that Elder Tales was designed to give level-appropriate encounters, so if someone is radically higher level than the rest of their group then the mobs’ levels will be skewed upwards and the lowbies will get run over. Hence the Teacher System. That’s almost certainly why Shiroe dropped his level to play with them, and also so he wouldn’t one-shot things and they could earn some experience.

    Well… yes. Touya said that outright. No betting required.

    Wanderer
    Reply

    2. Powerleveling shouldn’t be done in some random area they pass through and have never been before. The risk might be reduced by only one or two using the teacher system and save the other(s) for guarding against dangers. It’s still rather risky as they don’t want her to die and end up back at the church on the other continent.

      Znail
      Reply

    5. I’m not quite sure if this is the same as in Elder Tale, but when I play Aion, I play as the class Gladiator which is a secondary tank. That being said, I cannot always hold aggro on monsters and stuff. When a monster’s aggro breaks off from the tank, it may either attach the person who does the most damage, or in some cases just attack random people in the party.

      Taiyo
      Reply

      1. That’s pretty much how tanking works in every MMO. And if you’ve got a high-level player with you, then they’re going to get ALL the aggro. It would be next to impossible for a tank to keep up with the aggro-generation of high level skills. Straight impossible in most MMOs.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

  3. Hm… Even if Shiroe did call them, I imagine they wouldn’t go “OMG OMG OMG Shiroe Onii-chan! Help us! We are being enslaved!”

    Always trying to not be a burden to anyone else, especially if said person have their own life, that’s just how Japanese usually are (Them asking for advice is pretty casual thing to do).

    OtOH, I want to eat deer meat too!

    Livingindadatabase
    Reply

  4. Shiroe’s team either needs to make sure Nyanta never leaves them or make Naotsugu reroll whatever his stupid subclass is into Chef, because after a meal like this I don’t think they can go back to tasteless mush

    that’s exactly what I have been thinking.
    they’dd better find a way to bribe him to stay or start learning how to cook. otherwise..Akatsuki might cook Naotsugu (and he’ll be burned like the way they always burn their food).

    power leveling Serara a bit? They’re a Teacher System but no Apprentice System? She’ll never get to stay with her neko-husband like this

    no need. you probably forgot how high her maid-level. aren’t you?
    well it can’t be helped. but with all her rabu-rabu cuteness (so funny and great!)…and the maid-level, she’ll be alright and will succeed in becoming Nyanta’s husband (or just give him some milk or whatever cats like. he can’t resist it in this world).

    I found it quite right for shiroe to reflect about the twins, especially after saving a kid like serara. that’s why it felt quite right. but yes, I don’t understand – make the call “hello, how are you kids?”. it’s not a big deal.

    I wonder where it’s gonna lead us. but that’s aside..what about the armored-guy from 2 eps before?I want to know who is he and what he is planning…

    p.s
    for a moment I thought “Akatsuki, you have a rival” (in terms of shiroe) and then she was like (“yeah Nyanta is great”) and seems she has rival on the other side (Nyanta’s side).
    so creepy! XDD

    thedarktower
    Reply

  5. so basically Shiroe plays the roll of a prophet, a messiah who guides the players to the right path, because he definitely looks like one during that back shot of him what with the white cape and a cane and all

    and watch out Akatsuki your going to have a rival for Shiroe’s attention soon enough if the OP have anything to tell

    lol
    Reply

      5. It’s a reasonable misunderstanding. They set them up as twins and then tohya is introduced with a separate girl by his side who is also in all the openings.

        That said, I don’t think/hope they’ll have the middle school student be an actual love interest. Possibly just the next most important female character since she seems to join the main group where the other female characters we’ve seen so far do not.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

  10. And we see a darker side of Elder Tale: looks like someone is running a syndicate already. The type that’s similar to ones that use orphans for their operations.

    This episode just confirms two theories to me: 1.Rather than being sucked into the game, more like the world turned into the game. The game somehow superimposed itself into the real world after the latest patch.

    2. The gamers were transported into another world similar to Elder Tale, BUT that world is real and they are the anomaly, hinted by the discussion between Naotsugu and Shiroe.

    Both theories of mine believes that the world they’re in IS NOT A GAME, but an actual world with a history. Whether the game rules are there before the adventurers arrived or it’s a sudden anomaly caused/that caused the arrival of the adventurers I cannot say for certain yet.

    TheMoondoggie
    Reply

    2. I also thought the same possibilities. The world turned into the game or is another world overrun by the game. Either is more interesting than a virtual world. Just imagine if they face dangers that do not belong to the game. For now it is fun to show what belongs to the game and what our main characters can do, the real action will arise when they find the truth of this world.

      Shadow74
      Reply

    3. Whatever has made the game world like this is most likely something doing it for benevolent reasons. After all, with the power they have I don’t see why they wouldn’t disable resurrections…

      I’m also willing to bet that the source of all this is magical. I don’t think it’s earth itself being transformed, because then you have to ask yourself what has happened to the missing people? Afair only 30k people are on the japanese server. That means over 300 million people missing in japan alone…

      Some kind of force has probably acted on the game world and made it realistic so that it would be livable. Possibly to save them from some kind of disaster.

      KGS
      Reply

      2. ” I don’t think it’s earth itself being transformed, because then you have to ask yourself what has happened to the missing people?”

        Yes, this is the main problem of my first theory which is why I like my second one more. I don’t think Elder Tale is “just realistic” at this point: it is real. The MMO elements are all starting to fade(you have to have the required job to accomplish a task, which is an MMO element, but you have to do the task manually, like cooking or cleaning or casting a skill).

        As things get real and game elements disappear I’m inclined to believe that being resurrected after someone dies will stop too, since that is an MMO/game element as well.

        TheMoondoggie
        Reply

      3. I don’t think the MMO elements are fading. I think they’ll stay around because that’s half the fun of this genre. That said, I generally agree with your theory. This is some kind of a ‘real’ world.

        I don’t think it’s earth for a number of reasons: missing people, earth shrunk by half, etc.

        But I’m not sure it’s so much a totally different world that the game has superimposed itself on as perhaps the game itself just BECAME a real world for some reason, or something. Honestly I’m not sure yet, but your theory is basically where I’m at as well.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

      4. Wanderer: That’s a good point, but I doubt it. The reason why is that it seems that if that were the case, the minds of all NPCs would be wiped, but they aren’t. The NPCs have some kind of history which they remember, but they don’t know what cookies are…

        KGS
        Reply

      1. That would be indeed an interesting outcome.

        Speaking of Negima, there is a sequel now called UQ Holder. It follows the grandson of Negi and Konoka (their children had married) and Evangeline, who seems to be the only remaining member of the old cast.

        Zannafar
        Reply

      4. I read it after seeing this comment (thanks for that) and I saw no mention of Konoka, maybe I’m forgetting a name that was a clue or something.

        Also, so far I’m not as excited by it as Negima. I loved the magic in Negima and I loved that Negi was a brainy mage (much like Shiroe, though obviously evolves into a pretty straight shounen hero) whereas so far UQ holder seems to be setting up Negi’s grandkid as a non-magic user. I hope that doesn’t stay a thing and is just for the beginning.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

      5. I also started reading it thanks to zannafar’s post. Last name of the main character is the same as Konoka’s (at least romanized, haven’t seen the kanji) which indicates some kind of relationship, though I haven’t seen any explicit reference to her.
        To not be completely off topic here, Negi is more of a traditional nuke mage compared to Shiroe’s support, but I can see some similarities between the two as far as planning well ahead in a potential fight. Of course, Negi’s class in an MMORPG would be beyond broken, but then most shonen heroes are.

        SK
        Reply

      6. Well, him being Konoka’s grandson is a bit of speculation, but less than a third through the first chapter you see the names of his parents and since their surname is Konoe, the implication is strong.

        Zannafar
        Reply

  12. About shiroe not calling: maybe he is just not that worried or want to wait to see them in person to be sure. My point is: those who are socially awkward are very good at finding reasons for not calling.

    Sabado
    Reply

    1. Shiroe has a bad experience dealing with people since people find him useful.
      This lead to him of having a batman personality.

      He is actually worried but when he saw them back in episode 1 with a smile with their guild back then in episode 1 he kinda feel that he isn’t needed and would just be a hindrance to what they have now.

      Shiroe is also shy after all(Got this info on episode 0 when the anime got interviewed).

      And thus this conclude my theory on why Shiroe didn’t call them out.

      Croos
      Reply

      1. Yeah, I think you hit it on the head. Shiroe doesn’t really call ANYONE out. People come to him. The only exception to this so far has been Naotsugu. Akatsuki found him, Marie contacted him, the twins apparently contacted him. I just think he’s nervous about calling anyone.

        It is a frustrating trait though.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

    2. You have a good point about his introversion and social awkwardness. That doesn’t stop it from being frustrating though, because unlike a really socially awkward person he’s with people all the time!! So it’s selective awkwardness, or rather a preference towards not wanting to initiate contact with most personality types, and that’s…well, I get it (assuming you’re right), but it’s still frustrating, especially when this personality trait hasn’t been played up enough. If that’s the reason at all, that is.

      Stilts
      Reply

      1. It is really weird. You wouldn’t normally think of a guy who’s purposefully playing a hard support because he likes it as an anti-social loner.

        I think what we’re supposed to take away from Shiroe is that he WANTS contact with others, but he’s horrible at initiating it. Whether this is a quirk or somehow related to his back-story with Debauchery Tea Party (and presumably that girl in the party) is hard to tell. They do a lot of pregnant pauses when discussing the old group, so I think that is the reason he’s like this, but…?

        I just re-watched the episode and I stand by my interpretation that he’s just shy. It’s clear from the conversation that he doesn’t have any actual suspicions, he’s just generally worried because they’re his friends. He thinks they’re fine (and with a guild). So basically, he doesn’t think he has a good enough excuse to contact them.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

      2. I agree that Shiroe’s social awkward did play a part for the reason he did not contact the twins. Theres also the things like he is too occupied from the sudden event (gathering information,etc) and he thinks they are fine if they were in a guild since the guild will suppose to help them.

        As for the reason why the twins did not contact him, it will surely be told during coming episodes but it was mainly due to self emotional complex in their heart.

        Echo
        Reply

    3. or “Don’t Stick your Nose in other Peoples Life/Problems”… It’s a bit myself. Perhaps this is why i like this. I see many parallel things in Sirou and me (Online playing)

      Germanguy
      Reply

      1. except, i could not lead a Guild. Guiding a Raid and leading a Guild, are two different Worlds. When leading a Raid is easier. You know what the Classes are capable of (if they are Pros)

        Germanguy
        Reply

      2. or he is weak in making decisions. Because he are afraid if they turn bad.

        But like i said to a friend. Decisions are there to make them. Living with your choice is called Life

        in this Anime. Perhaps his new Friends should now “backup” him or push him, to go help them “you surly wanted to help them. Go do it, your not doing anything wrong in wanting to Help” or so

        Friends, that move the “Decision scale” inside him. That only works with peoples he trust

        Germanguy
        Reply

  13. On the topic of the characters not wondering how to get home. Remember every person would reacts differently to this situation and as such we get to watch how Shiroe and friends don’t curl up into a ball but decide to act how they do. You know calm and collected.

    Dark
    Reply

    1. This story seems very point A to point B to point C and so on. I think part of the reason they haven’t focused much on getting out yet is they always have things to do.

      Step one: regroup, step two: figure out how to fight and survive, step thre… request from friend to save friend in danger, step three: Maybe go see why they’re here?

      The story is just very goal oriented.

      KaleRylan
      Reply

    2. You have a point…and yet, even if they don’t do anything about it, the lack of ever thinking about it is odd. I think of it like if a normal person-type character were to suddenly kill someone. Unless they have military training or were brainwashed or are a sociopath or have some other excuse, I would expect them to have some moral quandaries about ending a life, so not seeing that is weird. They don’t have to dwell on it, but it never coming up feels imbalanced.

      Stilts
      Reply

  17. man cant help but jump for joy and grace because finally, there’s HOPE IN FOOD… now i can say i can jump right into the game and say good bye REAL world.

    it seems, they are not TRAPPED in game but, the real world (the one they came from) was reality bended to that of fantasy MMORPG where the previous players become the adventurers and those who havent played the game become the “people of the land”. so technically, if you murder a NPC, you have just really murdered someone.

    just my theory after seeing this episode.

    PS… i feel their craving for “REAL” food as they eat that lucious barbeque.

    TheGreatIdiot
    Reply

      1. Thanks for the link. Now I imagine those same characters, Alucard, Kotomine Kirei, etc all meow’ing. I haven’t stopped giggling for the past five minutes. The more serious the character, the better! Nyaa

        Drasca
        Reply

      2. Well, it’s easier to imagine Kotomine Kirei, since there’s a Neko-Arc version of Kirei.

        But I’m just trying to imagine Alucard, in a recording studio, doing the voices. It’s surreal.

        Rasen
        Reply

  20. In response to the false tension between the twins dilemnia and Shiroe merely being able to contact them, there are other factors to it. One being pride like you mentioned, because the twin feels guilty for asking for his help again. It may also be the fact that he knows he can’t just be babied by Shiroe if he wants to live in this new world. He can’t stick around with Shiroe all the time. Relying on someone’s help is good, but I think the twin wants to solve this with his own hands or he feels it’s something that he just has to deal with because he isn’t high level.

    At least it looks like Shiroe and co will tackle on this problem and help ease the pressure that low levels have to face in this world.

    AzureNova
    Reply

    1. Like I said, I actually don’t have a problem with the twins not contacting Shiroe – their reasons are understandable, if not necessarily good. It’s Shiroe not contacting them when he’s concerned that annoys me.

      Stilts
      Reply

      1. Having not read the books, I can’t totally say, but I think Shioe’s ‘concern’ is a combination of curiosity and nothing.

        Of what he’s seen, he has no reason to actually be concerned about them, so I think he thinks he’s jumping at shadows. Combine that with his general reticence and I think it’s enough to explain not contacting them.

        I agree that it’s a bit weird though. They should have just NOT been on his friend list. He doesn’t know them well, they didn’t group that long from what we’ve been told, so having them on his friend list already really just messes with the narrative in an unnecessary way. If everything else was the same but they hadn’t put each other on their friend lists the whole thing would work perfectly.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

      2. I disagree; I think they should have been on his friends list, just he shouldn’t have been grouping with them right before the Apocalypse. If he was grouping with them a few weeks prior, he wouldn’t have had reason to be so actively concerned and may have only thought about them when the NPC kids reminded him of them or he actually saw them – in which case the time between worrying and acting would have been far shorter.

        A small change, but an important one. The devils in the details etc etc.

        Stilts
        Reply

      3. Fair, that would certainly work too.

        Either way, I think the key is the combination of having just seen them and having a really easy way to contact them that makes his apparent refusal to shoot them a message so weird.

        Whether he hadn’t seen them for a few weeks (as you mentioned) or didn’t have a close relationship with them (as I mentioned) I think losing one of his links would have it make more sense.

        Given how easy and how logical it would be to just message them, the way it’s written we’re apparently forced to just accept that he’s shy.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

  23. Serara’s Guild, surly has many Players in her level. Perhaps it is the Best Way, if they make a Group to Level up. Now they need it, and have all Time they want

    And looks like someones abusing the Teacher System. See, there are always Peoples that find a Way to turn a Good thing into Bad and Exploiting it. Looks like they force the “Lowbies” to do their Trade-skills for Income. But this is not more then Slavery or (evil orphan asylum)

    The Pacing of the Story is Good. They really made it up

    Germanguy
    Reply

    1. I thought the said abusers were NOT using the teacher system, and Touya noticed that the ones in the hunting groups and the “leaders” of the said groups have a huge level gap. Thus the monsters…

      btw, Stilts did a better job explaining:

      I bet the reason why Touya’s party was having so much trouble is that Elder Tales was designed to give level-appropriate encounters, so if someone is radically higher level than the rest of their group then the mobs’ levels will be skewed upwards and the lowbies will get run over. Hence the Teacher System.

      …at least I can agree with the reason for the slavery comment.

      info600
      Reply

      2. It’s a lot simpler than that. The Sorcerer party leader is a midlevel Sorcerer, so probably in the 40-50 range. He’s babysitting 5 high teen to low twenties level characters in a level 25 monster area. He gets annoyed at how slow they are so he moves forward without them and pulling more, basically doing the tank’s job. Of course a sorcerer has armor like nothing so even Touya at half his level has more armor but the sorcerer is doing anything but making tanking easy on Touya, so as a result people in the party die. That’s why the mentor system and stuff was brought up, Shiroe lowered his level so that he could let Touya and Minori get more used to the party play, with a simple trinity of tank/healer/dps party.

        Xacual
        Reply

      3. Perhaps the High level Player, pulls for himself Higher Mobs. But when the Cleric/Healer need to heal someone of the Group, she gets the Aggro of this Mobs, too. Because of Group Aggro.

        Germanguy
        Reply

      4. Well,
        Show Spoiler ▼

        Vandsy
        Reply

    2. Well, it is a Decision to make. Want you an “tank” Cleric, or an “Mana” Cleric?

      In Raids, you have other Players that looks your Back, and their work is to keep you Alive and Well. So mostly the Raid Clerics, will go the “Mana” Way, in short their have Paper thin Armors

      Battle-clerics are most likely for small “starter” groups, not for Raids

      Me? i was a “Mana” Cleric

      Germanguy
      Reply

  24. It’s still avoiding the massive “monologue” like a boss. Not bad for having continuous expansion of the world in every single episode; it’s even more apparent that they went for the extra mile getting different groups of players to realize an important fact.

    info600
    Reply

  25. This part sure is nostalgic
    I always love to loiter around the low level places because I love the view when the sunsets(helps keep out the stress of “It’s always the healers fault”). I would always end up with newbies asking for help. As a support type, I would help them and give buffs as bonus. Always therapeutic after helping them.

    Croos
    Reply

    1. You’re a nicer man than I, Croos. I usually either sat in high level zones or on the top of buildings in the main city when I wasn’t doing anything else; basically, away from all the nubs, lol. Too many high-level people asking me for stuff, never had time to help newbies too!

      Stilts
      Reply

    1. Most people seem fond of serara, but that aside, she doesn’t seem to be a permanent addition to the cast. The OP and ED have made it reasonably clear who the ‘main’ characters are going to be. And Serara’s not really there. The twins however are, plus the spear girl, whoever she is.

      KaleRylan
      Reply

  27. @Stilts: Okay, I’m calling them out – here be some false tension… If you’re worried about the twins, Shiroe, why don’t you just call them!

    Yes! Thank you for pointing that out. That was one thing that really bugged me about the episode. Given what Serara just went through with another guild, I found it hard to believe that someone like Shiroe who knows both the game AND MMORPG playing in general as well or better than anyone would simply go “Ehh, they’re probably fine” >_>. Even before this EP, you could see this issue coming a mile away from the few scenes we did get of the twins.

    What I found interesting was that cooking requires both the Chef subclass and cooking the ingredients like they would IRL.

    Huh? Uhh, don’t see how this is anything close to RL. I don’t have a “chef sub class” (i.e. I’ve never taken cooking classes). In fact, I know one person who’s taken a couple informal cooking classes, and yet everyone I know all seem to manage to make decent if not good tasting (albeit mostly simple) food. Granted there’s definitely a gap b/t home-cooking and high level restaurant cuisine, but IMO the food thing has been overdone. It’s like saying that without a maid sub-class, it’s impossible for a character to clean anything. Sweep the floor and more dust appears (or mushy dust – IDK). I get that they want to show the sub-classes ala MMORPG, but I think that could have been handled better. Just like RL, w/o the “sub-class” cooking food taste OK/pretty good, but is much better with the knowledge and skill. JMO.

    Lastly, cute though she may be, IMO Akatsuki > Serara.

    daikama
    Reply

    1. 1. This has been discussed above, but I’m pretty sure Shiroe isn’t ACTUALLY worried, he just wants to talk to them and he’s too shy to do it. We have to remember, character design makes it REALLY obvious to us who the good guys and bad guys are, but in context we’re supposed to believe the creepy dudes the twins were walking with in episode 1 just looked like normal players to Shiroe.

      So it’s understandable he thinks they’re probably fine. From HIS view-point, he has zero evidence that they’re not fine, and at least a little (incorrect) evidence that they are fine.

      2. You misunderstand the sentence you’re quoting. It’s not “What I found interesting was that (cooking requires both the Chef subclass and cooking the ingredients) like they would IRL.”

      It’s saying, “What I found interesting was that cooking requires both (the Chef subclass) and (cooking the ingredients like they would IRL.)” Which is true. They have to cook like normal, they just have to have the sub-class for the cooking to work right.

      KaleRylan
      Reply

      1. 1) While it may have been discussed above, IMO I still find his lack of concern/”wrong assumptions” suspect. You have a VERY experienced – “one of the very best” MMORPG players who should be very familiar with how some people play the game. Not only that, he’s “the best tactician” which means he’s far from stupid. Even if you only look at what’s happened since they got trapped in the game, Shiroe & Co. have already been attacked (twice IIRC) by PK parties not to mention what happened with Serara. In fact, IIRC, Shiroe even mentioned (via internal or external dialog) that some strong players/guilds were taking advantage of weak players. It doesn’t take a detective sub class to think that maybe, just maybe, the twins might be in a bind.

        Probably fine does NOT = certain/knowing they are fine. The issue is still in doubt – particularly given the above which is why I find more than a little suspect that he wouldn’t take one minute to “call” and ask “How’s it goin’?” Lot’s of free time while riding those griffons. What’s the worst that could happen if he’s wrong (i.e they are fine)? Given how he helped them out before, I highly doubt they would be upset because he contacted them simply to inquire about their well being. Conversely, if he’s right, then the twins are indeed in significant trouble and in need of help because they are unable to extract themselves from the situation on their own. Simple risk/reward analysis – something the “best tactician” should be extremely well versed at. His character might be shy, but he’s spent time with them before so it’s not like he’s contacting total strangers.

        2) Given Stilts’ reply below, evidently I did misinterpret his statement though TBH, I think it can be logically interpreted either way as written. Regardless, that changes nothing in terms of my view. I found it really odd that cooking was completely all or nothing – and not that it just turned out bad tasting, but *poof* instantly transforms into inedible black-purple mush. In addition to the cleaning example above, what happens if they try to wash their clothes without a “maid” or “launderer” sub class? *Poof* Instant black-purple mush clothes? I get it that it was played at least in part for humor, but IMO by trying to exaggerate things, they just raised a bunch of unnecessary questions for some viewers who are trying to become immersed in the show’s setting.

        Simply have Shiroe and Naotsugu’s “home cooking” turn out “not so well” – maybe a little better than the “menu ordered food”, but nothing “tasty” let alone great. You could even throw in a one-off line such as “Well, at least this isn’t any different than RL – couldn’t cook there either. Always ordered take-out.” In short, they just suck at cooking like some people do in RL. Still sets up fine for the Nyanta uber-delicious meal gag, and importantly bypasses the possibility of raising sub class questions/issues. Finally, as I noted in my reply to Stilts below, IMO too much time is being spent on food anyway, and not enough on the main underlying issue of the story – how did this happen and how do they get back to RL.

        daikama
        Reply

      2. @KaleRylan: *sigh* what I get for ADD surfing while in the middle of writing my reply rather than finish my reply first, then look at other stuff. Didn’t see your reply to my reply to Stilt’s below so disregard the 2nd point. Sorry about that.

        daikama
        Reply

      3. Fair enough on your second point.

        as for the other:

        There’s another post where Stilts and I talk about this a bit, but the long and short of it is; I pretty much agree. They haven’t given a good enough reason why he doesn’t just contact them.

        I like the show enough though that I’m willing to look for a reason rather than just get mad at them. Plus I don’t think it’s totally wrong. Again, you have to try and get in his head and ignore some of the really obvious anime-design choices.

        Shiroe was with two people he didn’t know that well (but liked okay) and then the apocalypse happened. He was confused and started dealing with his friends, trying to figure out a bit of what happened. Then he sees the two kids walking and chatting with a number of other players, apparently happy. The center of attention even.

        If you ignore the fact that the players with them LOOKED creepy (which is meaningless, if we were all trapped in WoW tomorrow, half the high-level equipment looks evil), you’re seeing two kids that seem fine. If you combine that with his natural shyness, I think it’s enough.

        It’s close though. As Stilts and I discussed, he should have either A) not seen them just recently or B) not been that close with them. That would have helped it make more sense.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

    2. What KaleRylan said. It sets a precedent where the game rules are required (the Chef subclass, the Scribe subclass, even main weapon skills like daggers or swords) but they still have to actually use said skills like they would IRL…or rather, furthers it, since there were hints of this even with their weapon skills (needing to practice to get better, etc).

      Stilts
      Reply

      1. Fair enough, but I still think it’s odd/strange/etc. that no sub-class = utterly failed result (i.e. inedible purple mush). It’s worse than the “ordered” food, and still makes me wonder what happens when a non sub class maid tries to clean. It’s just too much IMO. Frankly, I’d prefer that there was less emphasis on food and more time spent on say perhaps understanding their situation and how to get out of it.

        Granted there are a lot of episodes left, but there’s no sense of urgency regarding the main issue which is being trapped in a game. My guess is that at least one if not two episodes will be spent on the twins issue. That means at least 1/4 into the show’s total run (approximately depending upon 24 or 25 eps), the main plot line has been ignored (at least what I think is the main plot line). Obviously with this much air time there’s no rush, but that doesn’t mean it should be put off so long either.

        daikama
        Reply

      2. Honestly, I sort of agree with on the subclass plus action requirement. It seems random and a little too harsh. Although it means chef would be an incredibly valuable commodity in this new world.

        As for the plot as a whole, I think people need to settle down. This is an adventure story. Getting out of the game is most likely the final goal, but as an adventure story rather than a thriller like SAO, it’s going to take the scenic route getting there.

        It will get there, go read the preview blurb about the whole show. It basically spoils that the long-form plot of the whole show is about them forming a guild to figure out what’s happening. But again, scenic route. Where SAO skipped 2 years of story to get to the ‘important’ part, this show considers that 2 years of story to BE the important part.

        Still, it does need to at least be mentioned some time soon. I’ll agree on that.

        KaleRylan
        Reply

  28. I’m really wanting to like the series. However, I’ve seen SWO, and before that, all the .Hack’s. Both of those series established an over-arcing drama/plot fairly early.

    I’m hoping this show gets to the point already, because I really want to know where it is going. I agree that it’s odd how NOBODY has asked “WTF?!”

    Also agree that Serara needs to level the hell up already, and probably respec. Using her as a punchline will get old quick, and she really shouldn’t have anybody on her radar besides Nyanta. I don’t think Akatsuki should worry, as Shirou should be above love triangle nonsense. Then again, this is anime…

    Seracen
    Reply

  29. I really don’t get this complaint. The show HAS a plot. It just hasn’t told us it’s endgame already. And that’s not unusual in stories. Lots of stories have slowly unfolding plots.

    SAO is actually kind of lazy storytelling because it simply tells us pretty much ALL of the important information in the first chapter, and then just fills in the blanks as it goes on. I don’t mean that as an insult, I liked the Light Novels (I think putting them in chronological order wrecked the anime, but that’s another topic), but just straight explaining the whole plot in the first chapter/episode is not really necessary, or that impressive from a writing standpoint.

    I do agree that they need to get to the basic question of why they’re there, but I don’t think they’re acting too unreasonable. In fact, while it’s maybe a little unrealistic, it’s actually what you’re supposed to do in an unexplained disaster. First you stabilize your situation, then you deal with solving what caused the disaster.

    As far as can be told from the opening, Serara is NOT a main character, so her level is sort of irrelevant. She’s just a member of a friend’s guild. And why should she respec, Druid is a good class. As for Housekeeper, other than Akatsuki’s weirdly awesome subclass they’re not really supposed to be that big of a deal. I mean shiroe’s just a mapmaker, and the chef would be a fairly uninspired choice if it wasn’t the only way to taste food now.

    KaleRylan
    Reply

    3. Yeah, it’s just personal preference. I can no longer be arsed to deal with a series that waffles around too much. I’ve just become too jaded with a lot of anime I’ve seen of late.

      Case in point, the main from Outbreak Company is so awesome, I feel like strangling that main from Infinite Stratos.

      Back on track, I’m not saying there’s anything WRONG with slow buildup. However, I just lack the patience to deal with it. For instance, I have YET to get far into Gurren Lagan, simply b/c I always stall out after a few eps (yes, I know it gets good around episode 8, but that’s just too late, IMO).

      I know Log Horizon has a plot, but without an appreciation for broader plans/effects, it’s difficult for me to get invested.

      Seracen
      Reply

  30. Even if they are with Shiroe and are a bunch of lvl 90s an accident can happen because, you never know when an accident’s gonna happen. If Serara dies on the way, they’ll have to pick her back again at the cathedral so it’s better not to take risks.

    On a side note, is there an RPG close to Elder Tale Online? I’m your everyday casual gamer. Right now I’m playing FFXIV ARR but to be honest I don’t find myself engrossed in it. Random people rarely talk to other random people. People don’t want to party with other players who don’t have high level items. The community is not noob friendly. I’ve played Guild Wars 2 as well but only the PvP/World vs World system made me play it.

    The last game I’ve played that engrossed me was… Ragnarok Online from a century ago. It was very fun, it was exciting to meet new people. Unlike today’s games, you have to be wary of the people you meet because you never know if they’re trying to scam you or something. In the games today people would even inspect your character’s equipment before letting you join their party, those pricky elitists. I didn’t play to be elite back then, I just played because it was fun.

    Maybe this is a result of me growing up, losing all the innocence and the simple enjoyment I get from just logging in and chatting with random people and friends. Maybe I was corrupted by how the society thinks and became an elitist as well, thinking that if I’m not strong then it’s not fun.

    Sorry for the random rant, but Log Horizon has burned anew the gamer inside me which only shows how much I like this show.

    The Story You Don't Know
    Reply

    1. There are a lot of MMO’s like Elder Tales, but none so close that I would say its a straight copy. I see shades of Everquest 1 and Dark Age of Camelot from my own MMO past, as well as a number of Asian MMOs I didn’t spend a lot of time on (Lineage, probably others). Hell, I even see things that look like they’re crimped from more recent MMOs like Guild Wars and Warhammer Online.

      Touno-sensei picked and chose the elements he copied – and modified some to fit the story – but Elder Tales is very much a believable MMO. I’ve seen almost all of these mechanics and classes done at one time or another.

      Stilts
      Reply

  32. I am really beginning to take interest in the People of the Land getting suddenly much more lifelike… There is much more to it than game becoming a reality for players. I can’t exactly nail it, but I have the feeling that as if the game world itself came to life, with some striking consequences (NPC abuse might just become simply crime, from moral point?)

    ewok40k
    Reply

  34. I’d have seen Episode 6, and for first led me say this.

    I have seen me inside this Episode, the urge to turn the “World-server” into more the Light. I shed some tears

    Log Horizon, you touched me with this Episode, right into my “Online Self” Heart

    Germanguy
    Reply

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