First Impressions / Rokka no Yuusha

“A Trap and a Rout”


「罠と潰走」 (Wana to Kaisou)

Chasing Adlet – An Unfortunate Flashback:

After things started looking bad for Adlet last week, I expected he’d have to prove himself this time around. He’s stuck it a tricky position where he should obviously be the fake – he admitted to being the first in the room, and no one else said otherwise. He tried his best to make a case for himself in the first few minutes, but he buckled under the pressure, taking Fremy hostage and appearing even more suspicious as a result.

To us, it should be obvious that it’s not him. From what we’ve seen, something odd definitely went down, which resulted in Adlet being framed as the fake. To the others, however, blaming Adlet seems like the most logical thing to do. But surely they’d think that someone who eagerly admitted to being the first to arrive would know what he was getting himself into? Adlet knows no better, but neither do the others. Except, of course, for the fake.

The second part of the episode saw Adlet and Fremy hiding in the woods surrounding the temple (I take it they are still within the barrier?). But more interesting, perhaps, were the snippets of Adlet’s past we saw while he was knocked out. We’ve already seen the malnourished Adlet confronting his master, but the moments with his friend and his mother were rather tender, given his current predicament. It seems originally he was more interested in picking mushroom than being a fighter, never mind the strongest in the world. Taking kicks to the stomach and forcing a smile in the face of his demise was his first steps to becoming the best of them all. He keeps repeating that one line, but every time I hear it from now on, I’m just going to remember the pummelling of a near-death boy who wanted nothing more than to seek vengeance on those who ruined him.

He even asked the question: “Why did I survive?”. Hopefully, to make a difference. Either Adlet is the fake and we’ve all been duped, or he’s a genuine boy seeking the rid the world of its horrors. Whatever the truth, I’m rooting for him, even if keeps repeating that one line over and over again.

8th Hero?:

At first there was six, then there were seven, and now there’s… eight? Adlet is throwing out the idea that there must be two heroes working together to pin the blame on him – ADLET MAYOR, THE STRONGEST MAN IN THE WORLD. It makes sense, but I don’t know what to think of this twist, if it is one. First off, maybe one of the real heroes is just working with the seventh, or maybe there’s more than seven, eight, or even nine heroes after all. I was just getting used to there being one fake; having a second liar in the group makes this even more difficult to figure out, if it will come to that. Adlet (and the series itself) seems to be setting up for there being an eighth person involved in all this, so I’ll reserve my judgement until this theory has been confirmed.

Suspect of the Week – Mora:

This episode was mainly about Adlet, the others blaming him, and then his escape and the snippets of his past. The group seems to consider the mystery solved, though we know that’s not the case. The most telling signs in this episode are how each of the seven are reacting to the situation with Adlet. Nashetania seems genuinely shocked and in disbelief that he could be a fake. And funnily enough… I believe her. After this episode, I really do think she’s just an inexperienced, anxious princess who can’t deal with all of these revelations. Am I being naive? I don’t know – Nashetania being the fake seems way too obvious this early in the game, so I’m counting her out for now (even if she’s the most popular suspect among commenters here, and viewers in general).

As for the others, Hans is convinced that Adlet is the fake. Chamo still has a grudge against Fremy. Fremy doesn’t care. Goldov is more concerned with protecting his Princess or watching her reactions to all of this. He was the first to swing against Adlet, which raises suspicions. However, it’s Mora who I still don’t believe. No one has even considered that she could possibly be the fake. She explained a lot of things this episode, like how the petals in their tattoos would disappear if a real Brave were to die. If true, that means the fake wouldn’t want Adlet to die, else they would know he was real all along. The ones who weren’t actively trying to kill him in this episode were Nashetania and Mora, and since I believe Nashetania is sincere, Mora is the biggest suspect yet again.

Overview – What’s Next?:

If there’s really two fakes in the group (with one character yet to show up)… well… I don’t want to consider that right now. Figuring out the seventh is enough already. As for the episode itself, it was probably my favourite of the series so far. The art quality is improved again, and Adlet’s flashback was very insightful to understanding his character. But is he really the strongest in the world, like he proclaims? I don’t know about that. We’ll just have to wait and see. If he can get out of this predicament alive, maybe he is deserving of that title.

Full-length images: 22.

ED3 Sequence

ED3: 「Nameless Heart」by Yuuki Aoi

83 Comments

  1. Only click if you want to be massively spoiled on the fake and how the barrier was activated. DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DON’T WANT TO BE SPOILED. From the LNs, this is probably what happened. Show Spoiler ▼

    Yuka
    Reply

  2. To be frank, this entire episode felt like little more than one huge misdirect. Now there’s an eighth ‘Brave’ supposedly running around? Where did that come from? That’s like Battler’s theory about an Xth culprit at the end of Umineko’s fourth Question Arc; convenient to be sure, but not ground in any semblance of reality.

    So no, at least for the moment, I’m not giving any credence to that. I still have my eyes set on Hans, though Maura’s certainly worth keeping an eye on. She keeps bringing up all these supposed impossibilities and what not, and no one has the spine to challenge her on anything? We’re all just supposed to take what she says at face value? Ain’t buying it.

    And as for Goldov… ugh, I just can’t anymore. Whether he’s out to kill Adlet because he’s jealous of Nashetania’s affection for him or whether he’s an idiot who honestly believes that he’s the fake; he could die at any moment now and I wouldn’t give a s***. Morons like him can go jump off a cliff for all I care.

    Ryan Ashfyre
    Reply

    1. As an LN reader, what Yuka wrote is about right according to the LN. It’s a little different. However, it’s just way too soon to start theorizing as we don’t even now if the anime will faithfully follow the LNs at all. I don’t think that theory should be presented now–if we are following the LN, we don’t even have any of the puzzle pieces to start with!

      Durango45
      Reply

      1. Eh, screw it, I say. I’ve already started reading the LN just to see how it is. Mayhaps the anime just isn’t putting things in as clear a light as they could be.

        Ryan Ashfyre
        Reply

      5. For god’s sake, you guys need to get out of here. I’m tired of you going around telling people what is right or wrong. I’m a LN reader too (waiting for Vol 6 to arrive from Japan), and I don’t like people like you.

        It has been quite fine for the last few episodes, so I hope you can stop coming here to tell what is the key part or not. Just shut up about spoilers. If someone wants to know, then they will search it themselves. Care to tell me what is so entertaining about telling everyone else you know it all?

        The mystery is part of the story, so ruining it is going to affect a lot of people. It doesn’t matter whether people get it right or wrong, so stop with your superiority complex and trying to lead people into the right direction. Jesus Christ.

        Cheerfulk
        Reply

    2. I kind of got the feeling that Goldov intentionally missed to give Adlet a chance to get away. If only because Goldov didn’t want to let them do anything to Adlet in front of Nashetania.

      StrenX
      Reply

      1. That’s a fair point. Admittedly, I was too caught up in my own thoughts to think of that possibility.

        Still, if he were truly thinking of Nashetania’s state of mind, was that just a desperate move in the heat of the moment on his part to give Adlet time? With the barrier still active, he knows that Adlet can’t truly escape and that he’ll inevitably be captured again.

        Ryan Ashfyre
        Reply

  5. when adlet say to bunny smile early i thought that his master was idiot, now it remind me kaneki torture from tokyo ghoul o.O
    fremy stay shy and don´t will show emotion while other are around but she open a bit to him if them are alone kuudere ^^

    dark
    Reply

  6. I can’t believe no-one still mentioned how Nashetania had freaked out and CASUALLY broke the tablet on one of the altars using the ceremonial sword. I felt like her little show of affection towards Adlet in the previous episode was timed perfectly to distract him from remembering that part of the story, as he was recalling the order of events at the time. Though her reactions mostly seemed sincere in this episode, I’m still keeping a close eye on her.
    I agree with Mora and her info-dumps being suspicious, but it shouldn’t matter to the impostor if specifically Adlet dies. The impostor has to shift the suspicion to ANY other person, which are all real Braves, whose death would only mean that they guessed incorrectly and they’d continue accusing each other.
    The two missing bits of information are: 1) Does the impostor have a fake Crest that doesn’t react to Brave deaths, and thus doesn’t want any of them killed yet. 2) Is the goal of the impostor to play along with the ‘guessing game’ and get as many Braves as possible killed one-by-one, or something else which would lead to them dying all at once.
    This series gets me more excited for each new episode…

    Timaeus
    Reply

    2. Oh yeah, Nashe and the her crazy outburst conveniently destroying some papers and cracking a tablet hasn’t gone unnoticed by me. Also, I’m beginning to wonder if Goldov’s looks aren’t what they first appear to be? What if he’s looking at Nashe and her reactions to Adlet because he’s actually suspicious of her? And Goldov attacks Adlet because he knows he’s being set up and is giving him an out? It’s an idea.

      Irenesharda
      Reply

    1. For an LN anime adaptation that isn’t 2-cour, the pacing of this anime has been pleasantly blessed.
      Little to no rushing, almost 1:1. By comparison to the LN, they’ve covered roughly 60 to 70% ?

      I’d estimate the reveal of the 7th by the 9th episode.
      It isn’t impossible that the entire 12 episodes of this anime is dedicated entirely to 1 LN though.

      Techim
      Reply

  10. I’m liking Adlet more and more, especially now that he has some backstory and I’m really liking his weird relationship with Flamie. He seems to actually care about her, and she at first couldn’t care less, but she seems to be interested in seeing this new side of him. I hope she joins him in his quest to find out the truth.

    Now we seem to have two fakes? Well, I’m not so sure, but I know someone mentioned a while ago, what happened to the Saint of Suns that Adlet asked Flamie about? He asked if she killed her, to which she said she knew nothing about it. And the Saint of Suns has been mentioned in passing a few times now. Could she be the missing 8th? Having faked her death?

    I’ve almost crossed Goldov from my list to join Hans and Flamie in the non-suspects. Goldov’s expressions when the princess was pleading with him seemed too genuine and there was no reason for him to show his indecision if he was really the fake, so he’s the first major suspect that I’m thinking isn’t the one. So, that would take out 4 from the 7, leaving Chamot, Mora, and Nashe as suspects.

    Mora is definitely becoming the most likely. She seems to know everything and is the leader and no one suspects her at all. Also, she would be the most likely to get another saint to be her accomplice as the 8th. Chamot’s too much of a psycho to maintain being a fake, but I’m not sure with her. And Nashe is still pretty suspicious. She was the only one not accusing Adlet, but that did help her keep up her appearance of being a naive little princess. She was soooo annoying this episode. Every time she said it couldn’t be him, I wanted to slap her. You’re supposed to be a warrior princess, stop being so whiny!

    Well, we’ll have to see next episode what the next step in solving this mystery will be.

    Irenesharda
    Reply

  12. its not “8th hero” rather just another person who could have set things up before the heroes showed up, at least thats what he thinks.

    adlet’s theory is that 7th is there in order to put the frame on one of them and create doubt within the group, to hopefully result on them killing each other.

    really got to say though, that they’re really killing this part by not showing the inner thoughts of the 7th. at this point, its supposed to be pretty obvious that the fake hero wants to cause the group of them to implode with the suspicion.
    this is important to be there in order to extinguish the theories that the fake in this group has either good intentions for joining them or he is doing it unwittingly.

    amado
    Reply

    1. Well, there’s no way to do that without us hearing the voice of the 7th and therefore knowing who it is. What works in a book doesn’t always work in a audiovisual medium. In a book we can’t tell who the 7th is, even though we are getting his or her inner thoughts. I think the show is working fine without it. I’m an anime-only watcher of course, and it’s probably since I have nothing to compare it to, that I’m fine with it. But I think it’s even better that I have to guess what the 7th is thinking and trying to do. It really continues the suspense and tension that I have to keep trying to put together what clues that I have noticed in the background.

      Irenesharda
      Reply

  13. I stated several days ago that I thought this show lacked depth, and said that it needed to step things up by adding other deeper, more interesting reasons besides “the existence of a fake” to make the Braves kill each other- and this week what happens? It’s almost as if an editor, like me, also thought that the story lacked depth due to there being no other major source of cooperation-breaking conflict between the Braves besides the fact that one of them is a fake- and told the LN author to do something about it, but unlike me didn’t bother to explain, or had no idea about how it should be done. The genius LN writer then basically just says to himself, “What? Not enough depth? I know, I’ll just add another fake!” *Facepalm* Imagination, creativity, really it’s not that hard- that’s the best you could come up with? I’ve seen some folks on other sites allege that the LNs are “poorly written”- I think I understand what they’re getting at now. Welp, although the story leaves much to be desired I’m still quite taken by this show’s Mesoamerican aesthetic and Adlet’s charisma as an MC- I suppose that’s enough to keep me watching…

    Zen
    Reply

    1. Keep in mind that the possible existence of an 8th enemy is purely Adlet grasping at straws. It may or may not be true. To me it sounds like Adlet is just thinking up random shit desperately and hoping it will work out. There’s no proof an 8th enemy even exists.

      FlameStrike
      Reply

    2. *Facepalm*

      Ok, so let me sum it up for you. You think this show lacks depth. Then you purposely find LN readers who also think so. Negative + Negative = more negative. Furthermore, you have no knowledge on what happens next (from Vol 2-6).

      It’s like a person who thinks Muslims are all terrorists, and goes to type “muslims are terrorists” in Google search. Of course, the first thing that comes up 100% pertains to that topic. After seeing the “majority” (ahem, sarcasm) believes that Muslims are terrorists, that person became a firm believer as well.

      Great, just great. I have nothing else to say. (Why don’t you read the goddamn LN instead of asking people that specifically have a bad impression of the LN? Your hubris is too much to deal with.)

      Cheerfulk
      Reply

      2. It’s patterns of tendencies and statistics. Reading one book out of a trilogy, or even a series of six or seven shorter books written in quick succession gives one a good grasp of the author’s style, technique, diction- and weaknesses. If certain types of weaknesses are observed to be present in the first book, it’s very likely that they’ll also be present in its sequels, especially if the sequels are written in quick succession and if the books are relatively short like LNs tend to be, not allowing much time for the honing of skills or forcing rigorous practice in between entries. Rokka, up to this point in time (I think we’re just getting into volume 2?) has lacked depth (In my opinion)- a characteristic weakness of its writing which likely bleeds over into and permeates subsequent LN entries, (Especially considering that it is an LN series with each book [likely] being rather short and written in relatively quick succession, compared to something like the Dark Tower series with its voluminous tomes and how it often went for years at a time without an entry.).

        As for the allegations of the LNs being “poorly written” on some sites (I did not google them specifically by the way, I just happened upon them while spoiler hunting), there has to be something about subsequent volumes that irks these folks- it may not necessarily be a continued lack of depth, sure- but it’s likely to be the case considering the above rule of thumb that an author tends to repeat his mistakes in subsequent books of a series with relatively short entries written in quick succession not allowing much time for the honing of skills or forcing rigorous practice in between entries.

        Futhermore, if you look at the spoilers that others have posted here:
        Show Spoiler ▼

        True to my rule of thumb, this seems to be a repetition of the above mentioned depth problem. By doing this the LN author has introduced unnecessary repetitive complexity to the plot- he’s literally just simultaneously recycling the character relationship dynamics surrounding one character into another character. Sure what he did adds to plot complexity- but complexity alone does not “depth” make. “Depth” = interesting complexity, it’s adding a new game mechanic to your puzzle platformer (Like the ability to stop time or dash) instead of just making more difficult levels based around the same old boring jump ability. It’s giving a cool new crowd control ability (Whirlwind slash) to your warrior class when he hits level 2 instead of just giving him a more powerful version of his basic attack. I’m really not sure if Rokka’s LN author understands the meaning of “depth.” I guess attempting to add complexity is a start, but he failed to grasp and left out the “interesting” part. Growing pains?

        It is (In my opinion) factually certain that Rokka up to where the anime is in its story lacks depth (I.e., interesting complexity). This, along with the rule of thumb that authors have a high tendency to repeat their mistakes in subsequent books of a series with short-ish entries written in quick succession (Characteristics of almost every LN, likely including Rokka), sporadic allegations of bad writing, and spoilers which very likely represent a repetition of the lack of depth problem and tend to indicate that the LN author doesn’t understand the concept of “depth”- amounts to strong circumstantial evidence that things don’t get better as the LN series goes on- the plot likely doesn’t get much deeper.

        Sure, it isn’t certain that things don’t get significantly deeper over time in the LNs. But the circumstantial evidence seems to indicate to me that it more likely than not won’t. And really, when you think about it that’s how one decides whether to continue reading a certain series of books or continue watching an anime beyond the first couple of entries- you evaluate whether continuing to watch a show or read a series of books will pay off in the end with a good story based on circumstantial evidence– the tendencies exhibited by the early entries, the opinions of others and conclusions drawn from online spoiler tidbits…

        It’s like a person who thinks Muslims are all terrorists, and goes to type “muslims are terrorists” in Google search.

        Lol, I don’t even know how to respond to this…

        Zen
        Reply

      3. I feel I need to point this out- people keep upvoting this guy Cheerfulk who accuses me of succumbing to confirmation bias by buying into some kind of argumentum ad populum and drawing some sort of deductive conclusion from it.

        Carefully reading the plain language of my parent comment reveals that I never said anything even remotely like “I think it lacks depth and doesn’t ever acquire depth because lots of others said so.” I said “I think I understand what they (The “bad writing” commenters) are getting at now”- meaning to say, I see technical flaws in Rokka’s writing (Like a lack of depth) which, I conjecture, are likely the same (unspecified) flaws that they are referring to in their comments (That I did not look for and discovered coincidentally while spoiler hunting). And my response clearly states and meticulously explains that my opinion is entirely my own, the perception of “poor writing” expressed by some commenters online merely being one of many pieces of circumstantial evidence contributing to my inductive conclusion that the LN series more likely than not doesn’t gain substantial narrative depth over time.

        Granted, some folks upvoting this guy are likely fully aware of the true meaning of my words, but didn’t have the time to articulate it and just chose to voice their disagreement with me in the simplest manner possible, these people I salute for being among the world’s Reasonable and Rational- but, the rest of you and Cheerfulk, seriously guys read the plain language of my comments carefully before shouting “confirmation bias” and “deductive argumentum ad populum”.

        Come on guys, Cheerfulk especially, believing what you want to believe about what I wrote and baselessly filling in the gaps in the logic of my brief, hastily written parent comment with what you want to believe fits in those gaps instead of asking me what I actually thought? And the rest of you who decided you agreed with Cheerfulk seeing that he is against my negative opinion of Rokka that is contrary to your own positive opinion of the show and because of the number of upvotes he is getting? One comes up with his own unlikely interpretation while disregarding the meaning of my plain language, and the rest decide to go along with his flawed logic simply because it supports their shared opinion, also ignoring the plain language?- it’s mighty ironic, just saying…

        Zen
        Reply

      4. @Pink Hukra

        Don’t worry, I am not offended because someone criticizes a work I happen to like. The problem is this guy is asserting himself as being superior in story writing. He takes whatever rumors and spoilers he has, and proceeds to make assumptions off them. Then he tells himself AND everyone else “oh hey, I’m right”.

        It would be MUCH better if he was just voicing his opinion on the matter. Seriously, he got extremely bitter over the fact that people upvoted me.

        Zen, once again, why don’t you find something more substantial to back yourself up instead of making do with whatever you happen to come across. My accusation is wrong, and you’re one who simply try to reach a conclusion with whatever you got on your hand.

        That doesn’t excuse your attitude. Everyone, go and read his post again. Zen, you’ve constantly attacked the LN writer (despite not having read the LN), and tried to impose your own ideas on others. You “stated” that the LN is poorly written, and even tried to explain “how it should be done”.

        Are you going to conveniently ignore the part where I talk about your hubris? It would be great if you keep yourself to an opinion about the Anime, but you decided it’ll be GREAT to just talk about the LN (which you haven’t read) and show how much more capable you are.

        Let me tell you one thing. There is no such thing as an article without bias in real life. However, if Samu said something about “Let me tell this stupid LN writer how to actually write a story because I know how bad this story is based on the first 6 episodes of the Anime”, then I would immediately stop visiting Randomc.

        Damn, I wasted too much much time. That one single sentence sums up the entire intent of your post, and I still wasted so much time. I apologize. Also, I don’t know who upvoted my post, but please don’t ridicule them. Even if I would have gotten downvoted to hell, I would still make my point here. Your post itself isn’t even an opinion, it’s merely an insult.

        P.S. If you still don’t get it, then I shall explain it more clearly to you. I’ve never said the writing is without flaws. You seriously need to stop trying bait me with your spoilers. Personally, I think you really need to stop using spoilers as your base for your “opinions”.

        Why don’t you ask the two LN readers above to explain to you what Vol 5 is about? You want to know the answer right? You want to see whether other themes are included in the storyline other than “fake fake fake Brave” right? Ask them. Ask them, and stop your arrogant attitude.

        Cheerfulk
        Reply

      5. Watching the anime I’ve essentially read volume 1 and some of volume 2- I think I’m well equipped at this point to critique the LN author’s writing, especially with regard to major overarching focal points of the plot like what you called the “fake Brave theme,” wholly conserved from the LN- and to come to projected inductive probabilistic conclusions about the quality of subsequent novels. There’s a reason why I’m only criticizing big ideas and not little details like dialogue clarity, illustrative vividness etc.- because I have a basis for the former and not the latter.

        And if providing solutions to what you think is wrong with something is “arrogance,” then I guess no one should ever be allowed to critique anything. Is that not the essence of critique? To point out what you think is wrong with something and then say why you think it’s a problem and how you think it should be fixed. Granted, I’ll admit that my prose in the parent comment was very harsh and that I slung examples of solutions around like mud last week- but it’s because as a critic I’m so perplexed by how one-dimensional this story’s catch seems to be. As a critic i feel a lack of depth is often a dealbreaker- like how some a culinary critic might be extremely touchy about saltiness.

        It’s like Simon Cowell listening to the awful first song of some terrible amateur singer’s 12 song debut album and jumping to (Most likely valid) critical conclusions about the entire album based on egregious technical flaws in the first, without listening to the other 11 songs. And expressing his critique in the snarkiest manner possible because of how unbelievably awful he thinks it is and because it’s part of his personality to be snarky (I guess I’m snarky like Simon)- but critique is the intent, make no mistake- even if it doesn’t sound like it.

        Seriously, he got extremely bitter over the fact that people upvoted me.

        Bitter, good sir? Wherever did you get that idea from? My motivation to write that comment was more along the lines of sweetness. I didn’t even want to say anything about the upvotes at first, but the irony of the situation ended up being just too juicy to resist.
        (っ˘ڡ˘ς)

        Why don’t you ask the two LN readers above to explain to you what Vol 5 is about? You want to know the answer right?

        Do you know the answer to this question? Have you read all the LNs? If not, then why are you so opposed to my inductive conclusions? They’re based on as much evidence as you have. If you happen to have a summary of V5 of something, then just post it here instead of calling my probabilistic arguments “baseless”- if the summary contradicts all my complaints about depth then I’ll jump ships immediately and have a better opinion of this series. Simple way for you to won the argument and vindicate your beloved series. Unless my inductive conclusions are correct…

        Zen
        Reply

      6. It seems like you can’t read. Did I not say this not a place of discussion for the LN? Also, I have read Vol 1-5 (God forbid you to actually read my other comments on this page).

        “They’re based on as much evidence as you have.” – AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You could easily ask someone else instead of forcing me to do it, but your pride won’t allow you to do so huh? You want ME to provide you a summary of Vol 5 here instead of asking it on another site. Yes, I could easily end this stupid argument, but I follow my own rules.

        It’s quite entertaining when some ignorant fool just pressures the other person into offering details RATHER than looking for it themselves. I omitting spoilers is the same as “evidence does not exist” to you huh?

        It seems more like your intention has shifted to taking me down. Your passive aggressiveness is off the chart. “Beloved series”, hahahahaha. It’s great for you to decide things for me. Defending a series = fanatic. Great.

        Also, no. Don’t justify your shitty attitude because you’re “critic”. Don’t even use Simon Cowell as an example, as singing and story telling are two different things. You can keep playing around here with your superiority complex.

        Oh yes, I still remember something I have heard before. The opposite of justice is not evil, it is justice. Basically, my values are the opposite of yours. I don’t agree that your shitty attitude can be classified as “correct”. You’re wrong the moment you try to justify how you decide to tackle this problem. People who does not show humility, and justifies egotism are disgusting. (I’m pretty sure you’ll use this against me, but I still don’t like your attitude).

        Want to read the LN? Here you go: Show Spoiler ▼

        Too bad, you don’t understand the language right? 屌，LI條友真係戇撚鳩. I sincerely hope the writers at Randomc won’t turn to become as conceited as you. Simon Cowell, Gordon James Ramsay, and that CodeMonkey guy at Anilinkz don’t sit well with me. An inflated ego is the worst thing one could have.

        Cheerfulk
        Reply

      7. Do you even know the substance of V5? Almost seems like you just looked up a foreign language archive and gave me a link. Claim that you could win the argument easily when even you don’t know the content of V5, or you do know and it offends your principles to provide me with it? If the former, then you’re doing the same thing I did- attesting to the quality of something you haven’t read, if it’s the latter, well, that’s not how you win arguments, in the real world you meet argumentative folks far meaner than I all the time, and you only lose out if you are right, but will not win because of certain principles…just saying. Instead of presenting evidence you present ad hominems and a moral high horse. Even if my attitude is every bit as nasty as you say it is (Which I don’t think it is, I’m pretty sure that my language has been far more civil than yours), it’s still no proof of me being wrong. Simon being snarky and mean does not make him wrong when he criticizes bad singers, in fact he’s usually correct…

        Zen
        Reply

      9. TL;DR, Point is: I think the first volume that’s been animated lacks depth because as mentioned below character exposition has been slow and because the sole “hook” of there being a fake is unarguably shallow. And based on the tendencies I’m seeing and various other sources of circumstantial evidence like spoilers I don’t think it’s likely to get any better as time goes on in terms of the depth of the “hook.” No definitive assertions that it’s bad through and through- just that from what I’ve seen I think it’s likely end up rather flawed. But as Frosty astutely points out below, strong character development may yet save the day, so all’s not lost…

        Zen
        Reply

    3. I concur that the introduction of another party is kinda like ‘meh’. But that still didn’t keep me from getting hooked. Hopefully I wouldn’t be disappointed by the end of the series.

      Depth? Lol I guess being an editor has its downsides–it’s harder for them to enjoy a story without being too scathing at details.

      losing streak
      Reply

    4. (Spoiler FREE)
      I would actually have to disagree with you when you say Rokka “lacks depth”, it’s an awfully vague criticism. From what I can infer, you’re argument is based on what you ‘expect’ the plot to delve into such as the ‘existence of the fake’ and why that matters. However, the fact that Rokka mainly revolves around mystery is a pivotal consideration and as such tailor the specific criteria one must use to analyse the show. You could say that elements of the mystery infringe the sorts of things that can be disclosed to the viewer/reader so the ‘depth’ you are looking for lies later on in the series as Cheerfulk was saying.

      Back to the point,when I say vague I mean that Rokka, so far, in only 6 episodes in, displays depth in its characters, presentation and stakes more than its plot. The CHARACTERS are DRIVING the plot not the other way around. Your circumstantial evidence is the consistently executed character interactions that are very subtle. The show knows how to make objectively good characters like Adlet and to a certain extent Fremy. It knows how to make its viewers hate some of the characters only to root for them and sympathize them later on whilst still contributing to the layers of the mystery which is something I haven’t seen done before in any medium and by doing so it strengthens attachment to said characters when you start to learn more about them; episode 6 basically did this for Adlet by justifying his signature line “strongest man in the world” and still leaving more information about his past, leaving the viewer curious.

      Passione may have production issues but their ambitious presentation more than make up for it. Amazing camera shots like the birds-eye views of where and how each character was sitting or standing in the temple in episode 5 spell out the disposition of each character and the overall tense atmosphere. The shot of Adlet’s enlarged shadow from the fire in ep 6 is another noteworthy one.

      I could go on and give you more evidence as to why the depth (for the 1st Volume at least) lies in the characters and not necessarily the plot, though I would argue that the plot itself is pretty nuanced and therefore deep already. It doesn’t have any philosophical undertones that would be the obvious classification of ‘deep’ nor does it need it. I won’t go any further than to say that proceeding volumes bring out deep psychological elements as well.

      Frosty
      Reply

      1. See, THIS is the sort of objection I’m looking for- someone using rational empirical reasoning instead of a string of ad hominems and a bizzare “Muslims are terrorists” argument, etc. Well done.

        I guess you could be right that strong character development is what lends depth to the story in the long run. And me saying that “it lacks depth” stems from not seeing much depth after 6 episodes into a 12 episode show. Maybe Rokka’s one of those really slow build up series with super long exposition phases. Come to think of it, that’s probably indeed the case, that Rokka has an abnormally lengthy exposition phase. I mean, literally just this week we got the first significant bit of information about Adlet’s past and the show’s already half over. The bulk of the Braves were just introduced several episodes ago, and we barely know anything about them.

        Perhaps I was too focused on the simplisticness of the “hook” of there being a fake, my impatience with the abnormally slow build up giving me tunnel vision regarding the series’ future potential. I do firmly maintain that the “hook” in of itself is very shallow and in my opinion is unlikely to get any deeper. However, it’s entirely possible that the story as a whole deepens eventually through interesting character development. There’s no set precedent for shallow character development after all- even if there is precedent for the “hook” being shallow. And if anything, like you said the signs for the character development angle are good, with Adlet being charismatic and very likable, and Fremy being mysterious, lovable and sympathetic all at the same time- even before knowing much about their character histories. Still though, wouldn’t you agree with me that it’d spice things up substantially if they tied in reasons for the Braves to kill each other to character histories? I still think the shallow “hook” is a real problem, but you’ve convinced me that it isn’t necessarily a damning one for the series as a whole.

        Passione may have production issues but their ambitious presentation more than make up for it. Amazing camera shots like the birds-eye views of where and how each character was sitting or standing in the temple in episode 5 spell out the disposition of each character and the overall tense atmosphere.

        Don’t disagree with you there one bit. Like I said above, Passione’s sweet portrayal of ancient Mesoamerica is why I’m still watching the show in spite of my impatience with it…

        Zen
        Reply

    5. @Zen: I won’t argue your argument about lack of depth because Frosty said what I would have, except much, much better. (Yes, you can take this as a verbal upvote to him)

      One correction to something else you said though: The anime is only little more than halfway through volume 1. About 5/6 through chapter 3 out of 7 (5 if you don’t count prologue and epilogue) to be precise.

      Erimaki
      Reply

      2. Zen, I can’t dispute the simplicity of the current hook that you have raised. Indeed, after re-watching the latest episodes and empathizing with anime-onlys I can see where you’re coming from.
        But after some thought, I have come to realize that the mystery genre is incredibly tough to pull off, let alone what Rokka no Yuusha is trying to accomplish. I find that the writer is having to juggle the fascination and success of the mystery and the exploration of its themes and premise at the same time, both being antagonistic aspects of the show. It is because the viewer is actually the eighth player in RnY and this justifies why you get long exposition phases as it immerses you in the whodunit story which simultaneously sacrifices the time for thematic depth i.e. the significance of a fake which is hardly touched upon so far. The crux of the show is most definitely the mind games of the mystery since there is a lot of thinking involved on the behalf of the viewer.

        What I’m saying is Rokka fails to bring the perfect balance of the aforementioned aspects; the end result is a lopsided show that technically has a well done mystery (much better than Ranpo Kitan, which is primarily mystery) but has a weaker thematic backbone which is your argument, though I really doubt any show could pull off the same formula (as it also throws away some of the traditional rules of mystery being Knox’s Ten Commandments).

        In addition, I do agree with your proposal about having conflict arise from connected character histories and this has in fact been foreshadowed since episode 5 and onwards with the discord between Fremy and Chamot, the former’s past actions fuelling the latter’s barbaric motivations. You can only guess how Chamot will react when she sees Fremy on Adlet’s side.

        P.S. Consider the the amount of discussion these episodes of Rokka has spawned over the past few weeks. The series, I think, should at least deserve some credit for bringing communities together whether it be here at RC, MyAnimeList or any other anime discussion site to theory-craft, place bets, and analyse the show. Seriously this page has over 70 comments whilst other seasonal reviews on this site have struggled to reach 50.

        Frosty
        Reply

      3. the end result is a lopsided show that technically has a well done mystery (much better than Ranpo Kitan, which is primarily mystery) but has a weaker thematic backbone

        I feel that you really hit the heart of why I feel as a critic that a lack of thematic depth is potentially fatal for most types of stories. Because themes are the backbone of any story. Themes dictate the underlying reasons why something is happening, and give the event significance- the audience has no reason to get engaged and care about an event without strong themes. Without thematic depth all you’ve got is a hollow shell of a story, entirely uncompelling.

        It’s like this, if my story is- “Adlet went to the store to buy some candy” who cares, right? What’s the significance of this event? Ho-hum he bought candy. Hollow shell.

        However, if I add in a theme like “doting older brother” and say instead- “Adlet went to the store to buy some candy as per the demands of his spoiled brat little sister Chamo” the simple event/tale becomes far more interesting- one begins to wonder about Adlet’s relationship with Chamo, why does he dote on her so, she seems selfish- is she really as awful as this sentence seems to make her out to be, how did Adlet feel when he bought the candy, was he angry, did their parents force him to do it?- etc., etc… There is now context as to why Adlet went to the the store to buy candy, giving the event significance- a reason for the audience to care.

        At the point of the story that the anime is at it’s as you’ve said:

        the significance of a fake which is hardly touched upon so far.

        We’re right in the thick of the whodunnit fake Brave mystery and it’s yet to be explained as to why the existence of a fake (or two) even matters, aside from the fact that they seem to be “enemies” of the real heroes as evidenced by them locking the real heroes inside the barrier. What are the fakes? Are they servants of the demon lord? Wannabe pretenders with their marks painted/tattooed on? What are their motivations? There aren’t any themes that’ve been developed which answer these questions and give the premise contextual depth. Everyone wants to know who did it, but what about the underlying story itself? I don’t think there’s yet much of a reason to care- the story itself is kind of still a hollow shell. I’m afraid little has been built in terms of the underlying story itself to get the audience interested in it beyond the resolution of the mystery. But like you said this hollowness could be remedied by strong character development during the course of the mystery, I hope this happens- we saw some with Adlet today, hope they continue. Otherwise once the mystery concludes folks are gonna lose interest.

        What I’m saying is Rokka fails to bring the perfect balance of the aforementioned aspects…though I really doubt any show could pull off the same formula

        I think it could be done. Sure wouldn’t be easy- it’d be the sort of project that becomes someone’s magnum opus. The kind of thing that takes years of experimenting and dozens of scrapped drafts. You’d need the luxury of an ivory tower, one that few writers struggling to make a living can afford.

        Consider the the amount of discussion these episodes of Rokka has spawned over the past few weeks. The series, I think, should at least deserve some credit for bringing communities together…

        Yeah, I have to admit, there is a certain magic to this mystery that gets people very interested.

        Zen
        Reply

  14. Couldn’t Adlet just have tried to turn off the barrier to prove his innocence? Or am I remembering that incorrectly? And everyone else is in such a rush to execute him I feel like Chamot, Hans & Maura are conspiring to kill him for another reason, with Goldov only too happy to lend a hand, even though the Princess is very much against it.

    Perhaps the twist is that the Braves must sacrifice one of their own to get their number to six so they can go ahead and kill the demon god. But wait, don’t they need the fake to turn off the barrier? So why are they so eager to kill him if he is the fake?!

    Impel Down Hippo
    Reply

    1. But wait, don’t they need the fake to turn off the barrier? So why are they so eager to kill him if he is the fake?!

      Because the barrier with turn off if the fake turns it off, but ALSO if the person who turned if on dies. So rather than just trying to reason with an enemy, it’s easier to just kill them.

      Irenesharda
      Reply

      2. The Person how turn on the barrier, do not die. He or she is just trapped inside the Barrier, until its activated. So the Person reach an dead end, only escape when all is done (well, without food and water supplies its same as death)

        WorldwideDepp
        Reply

    2. I would let everyone of them (now its to late), try to turn off the Barrier. Only the person that activate it, can turn it off. So, someone must have been the culprit. But, no one thought about that or someone guide the discussion on the wrong path to not expose him/her. The main target is as their said, to kill each other now

      WorldwideDepp
      Reply

      1. then my solution would be the barrier is merged with the activators Lifeforce, until he or she dies of starvation inside the Barrier. No supplies are possible from outside

        WorldwideDepp
        Reply

      2. I went back and watched episode 3 to see again what they mentioned (since it was bugging me), and as you said, they only know how to activate the barrier. So that makes sense they don’t try to have everyone turn it off. Though that begs the question, how the hell are they going to get out of there? (I’m sure it’ll resolve it self/someone may in fact know – prob Maura).

        Impel Down Hippo
        Reply

    1. Lol, implied canon? We know they have a thing for each other and it isn’t hard to imagine what young couples on long trips alone together get up to, it was just the two of them for a long while after all, until they found Fremy…

      Zen
      Reply

  17. The girl who appeared is not Adlet’s mother, it’s his sister, whose name is translated as Shetra.
    Quote: Show Spoiler ▼

    Rolonia
    Reply

  18. So according to the spoilers it had to drag till Volume ___ until the fake gets revealed?

    Screw this, this is no longer the demon lord slaying anime I thought this would be.

    Dude
    Reply

  19. Hans and Mora working in unison so perfectly is a little bit strange and pretty convenient for the fake. They also arrived together, meaning both of them had a chance to talk with each other beforehand and plant favorable information. Hans could have asked stuff to make his accusations more believable while Mora could have told Hans some stuff so that he would draw the “right” conclusions that she could easily verify to back someone into a corner.
    And killing a real brave would be great for the fake. Once a petal falls all remaining trust in the group will be gone. And who will get attacked next? Hans, because he was pushing the Adlet = Fake story or Goldov, because he striked first? Starting a chain reaction the fake could get 2 or 3 more killed before he/she’s found out. In a Situation like this I wouldn’t be surprised if Chamo just starts killing everyone until she finds the fake, believing that she alone would suffice to kill the demon lord. If Mora is the fake, Chamo would kill her last making it perfect.
    Mora is still my prime suspect
    – she has the key
    – she provides/verifies most informations (like no saint power would allow sneaking in unnoticed, which nicely includes her own power, that she hasn’t shown off yet)
    – she keeps chamo in check (to build up the kids frustration?)

    And Fremy provied an interessting information: A fiend can’t approach those pillars around the temple (if active?), but the shapeshifter was lying around between them. So, something was already off/damaged when Adlet arrived.

    But there was something i don’t understand or missed the explanation for:
    – How can you tell if the seal was broken or not? They said that if someone broke a wall or the floor and repaired it afterwards you could still tell. How? As far as i remember they only mentioned that if the seal breaks the door opens and can not be closed again. So breaking in shortly after Adlet breaks the door would leave no evidence if they can repair or hide the point of entry?

    Arthur
    Reply

    1. I think that’s a good point about Hans am Mora. I probably didn’t consider Mora enough of a suspect before. As you mention, the bulk of the information regarding how all this seal & guardian stuff works is coming from those two.

      Hans I already suspected. Seemed to talk an awful lot about how “he knows” about these types of seals from working as an assassin. OK, so you have a lot of practical experience in a job where it would be very beneficial to figure out how to bypass such things. Congrats, you’re now a leading suspect. That and conspicuously trying to stir things up. Plus, Hans is very mercenary. “Save the world? That’s gonna cost you.” To put it another way, I think he can be bought if Mora wanted an ally.

      Going along with the two fakes theory(or maybe one fake plus pawn), Nashetania and Goldov are still probably at the top of my list. Nash-chan just acts too damn weird at times – acts> which is what she seems to be doing a lot IMO as noted in my comment for last episode. That and her freak out & destroying part of the seal device, etc. Goldov, is all hime all the time, 24×7. Built in accomplice right there.

      daikama
      Reply

  20. Some douche spoiled me in another discussion, but I thought that the possibility of a real Brave working with the fake, or at least have an actual suspicion about it. And the only pair I know to fit the bill if Goldov and Nashetania. I’ve always been suspicious of Nashetania being the seventh just by how inexperienced she was. Someone like her wouldn’t be a Brave. The only thing I don’t know of is the how.

    Tanz
    Reply

  21. the Facts first:

    If someone bring on more then 6 Braves into Play, are there more Fake ones living around? Is there not an Limit in how many the Goddess select ones? Sure, there can be Impostors to gain bonus from peoples, like worship, power or such things. But expand our 6 Braves into 7, is enough to discuss this entire Episodes that will come. And now adding an 8, perhaps even more will turn this “6 Holy Warriors” into nothingness. Please be careful in telling your story, without slip into laughable stuff

    WorldwideDepp
    Reply

  22. On the 8th hero/fake thing: to be precise, Adlet is only saying there’s an “8th person”, probably as in one more person inside that fog barrier. At no point does he mention that person being a fake hero.
    That doesn’t make his argument any less silly or convenient though.

    Erimaki
    Reply

  23. Also, don’t forget that Mora asked Hans to check the mark, not herself. If she was a real hero, she could’ve done that herself. No need to ask someone else check if her mark is genuine. That really made her seem suspicious to me

    Trap Master
    Reply

    1. Mora’s mark is on her back between her shoulders. She cant check it herself and getting Hans to check it would require exposing her unprotected back to an assassin.

      celebrinen
      Reply

  24. Nashetania clearly knows something and Goldov clearly seems to be intent on not letting her reveal what she knows, going so far as to attack Adlet so the conversation stopped there.

    So if the two people framing Adlet is to be believed, those two seem to be the clearest culprits. Now whether that means Nashetania or Goldov is the Seventh, or they’re just covering up being framed by someone else, who knows?

    Ashlay
    Reply

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