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「Confidence (信用)」 (Shinyou)

Given the more passive episodes recently, the collapse of the Southeast Asian Financial District was quite an abrupt turn of events. It seems that the destruction of a District can cause entire countries to simply vanish, and the whole situation suddenly feels rather unsettling; things are getting creepy indeed. The Japanese financial system seems to be spiraling downward as well. The whole city in shock, and it’s becoming more and more deserted too as people disappear and life drains out. It’s like the depression suddenly took a major turn for the worse, and people are in a dazed state, including Hanabi. The country is slowly dying, and Souichirou’s guild rushes to deal with the crisis using a plan known only as “C”, which seems to use their standard approach to problems — injecting a large amount of money to stabilize the situation.

On the other hand, Kimimaro is trying to find a way to get back futures lost, but naturally it’s not that easy, and even Masaki claims not to know that much. Kimimaro really is naive though, and since he doesn’t really know what to do he just acts on his impulses without really thinking anything through. Money is only worth what people trust in it, and he’s not doing anything meaningful. While Kimimaro is starting to disagree with parts of Mikuni’s ideals, I don’t really know what to make of the situation. I don’t see Mikuni’s approach as absolutely wrong, but no clear “right answer” exists either. Kimimaro doesn’t have a solution anyway aside not participating at all, which doesn’t do anything to the fact that the Financial District will still be there. Mikuni’s idea is to attempt to beat the system at its own game… but at what cost? Kimimaro finds it wrong to use money hedged on people’s future, but on the flip side, what’s the point if everything now is simply gone? Mikuni is doing what he believes is the right choice, to save the very existence of entire regions and the people in them, but at the risk of destroying future possibilities. Or, as he thinks, is there “no fate but what we make”?

Aside from these very interesting issues that are brought up, there are a bunch of other weird developments. The IMF’s motives (aside from simple observation) is still not clear, but one of the central leaders in the Guild is working with Jennifer as well — apparently in secret. Also, it’s pretty clear now that the Midas Bank is up to no good, at least if I’m judging the manic laughter in the end correctly. Something’s up with Msyu’s past too; she’s somehow linked to Kimimaro’s father, and there’s a short hallucination that implies her to be Kimimaro’s future child or possibly his sister. The mystery thickens…

June 4, 2011 at 5:07 am
98 comments »
  • June 4, 2011 at 5:23 amSyllen

    any romance between kimimaro and msyu just got more weird

  • June 4, 2011 at 5:27 amamado

    this one of the few times I really prefer the other person’s idea rather than the protagonist. mikuni is doing what he can for japan and his sister. the other guild members(aside from the glasses one) are in agreement and dont look like people who are in it for their own interest.

    and im on the theory msyu is his sis. that would make both him and mikuni siscons.
    hey, at least its not his daughter. now that would be really bad.

    • June 4, 2011 at 6:20 amNhelraios

      She might be Kimimaro’s sister, his dad got bankrupt and Msyu was taken by the FD.

      • June 4, 2011 at 7:43 amHagiri

        That might just be it.

      • June 4, 2011 at 11:29 amRicalloo

        Yeah, probably his sister. Though, you don’t have to look at their relationship as romantic at all. Believe it or not siblings can have good strong relationships of platonic love where they care for each other… instead of the cliche portrayal in Hollywood where they always hate each other. That is what I am going with, at least.

        Or, if you are all bent on it being some sexual thing, maybe think of it like Luke and Leia, where they simply didn’t know they were related. Once they were informed, everything was fine. I don’t like this model, personally.

      • June 5, 2011 at 8:55 amRayshi

        I actually think that Kimimaro will end up having a daughter with Mikuni’s sister.Hence Msyu

  • June 4, 2011 at 5:56 aminfinite

    This makes you think had cuz both of them have valid ideas. If you dont have a future why should there be a present but if theres no present how is there a future. Its tough but it all comes down to what you think is right.

    • June 4, 2011 at 11:41 amRicalloo

      A lot of suicidal people are often told, “Suicide is a permanent solutions to a temporary problem.”

      In other words, whatever problems they are presently having won’t be there in the future, at some point. This isn’t always true, but for many people it is. Things can seem to desperate and hopeless they don’t think they can ever be saved or rectified.

      I go for a balance myself. I look at it this way… There are people who spend every dime they have paycheck to paycheck enjoying life. Then there are those who save every dime only buying what they need so they can enjoy a long retirement. Both have pros and cons. If the guy who spends everyday lives to be 90, he will find his retirement very difficult and unsatisfying. If the guy who saves dies at 60, he will find his lifetime of responsibility has gone to waste.

      As none of us know when we will die, we have to balance a future and a present to get the most out of life, and hope that gamble pays off.

  • June 4, 2011 at 6:12 amKarmafan

    I’m guessing the creepy dude that runs this mess is Lucifer (or someone similar) and he is creating the appocolypse in some fashion. Slowly but surely bringing ruin to the world.

    • June 4, 2011 at 11:42 amRicalloo

      I always though he resembled Willy Wonka myself. >_<

      But, you are probably right. He may be some sort of demon on incarnation of the devil. If that is true, though, shouldn't there be something to balance him out?

  • June 4, 2011 at 6:14 amNhelraios

    That scene with Hanabi, im so confused. She seemed so depressed. Did the children she taught vanished?

    Only 3 more episodes I hope they dont left somethings unexplained.

    • June 4, 2011 at 11:46 amRicalloo

      So I wasn’t the only one…

      My initial inclination is that she was frustrated Kimimaro isn’t progressing their relationship, or that he isn’t getting the hints. You know how it is, women think we should be able to read their minds!

      Or so the stereotype goes… ^_^

      • June 4, 2011 at 12:57 pmkell

        however, he did visit her at her home, but she chose not to answer…

      • June 4, 2011 at 4:33 pmProoof

        I think he visited his teacher’s house

    • June 4, 2011 at 1:22 pmGP007

      No they didn’t vanish, she’s just feeling the effects like all the other people living there who aren’t aware of Midas etc, they’re all depressed/spacing out. It’s not really depression though, IMO, it’s more like people just lose their drive/hope/purpose and don’t care about the “future” so don’t do anything.

      • June 4, 2011 at 8:30 pmcybersteel

        Apathy Syndrome anyone?

  • June 4, 2011 at 6:20 amBass.EXE

    Did the pacing come off as weird to everyone else? This episode seemed to bounce around a lot

  • June 4, 2011 at 6:29 amdamrod

    I am probably looking into this too deep, but what if Hanabi is connected to the FD in the same way as Masakaki instead of being a entre or a regular character?

    • June 4, 2011 at 10:53 aminfo600

      it’s not that sudden. Q mentioned something about the city is trembling a few episodes back…

      and then Mikuni saw the big coin’s indicator flashing zero sometime after that…

      • June 4, 2011 at 10:57 aminfo600

        ops, wrong reply…

        but in return, I don’t think you should think that far, since Hanabi had nothing active to do with (or had any idea of) the Financial District. She’s similar to the one’s noticing the changes without knowing why.

  • June 4, 2011 at 7:01 amcybersteel

    Damn my homeland got destroyed. Now having a sudden urge to visit my family during the coming holidays.

    • June 6, 2011 at 8:09 amDal

      A fellow Singaporean? haha. When they said that the country got destroyed, I thought to myself “nope, i’m still here.”

  • June 4, 2011 at 7:56 amHagiri

    I feel like I missed a bunch of episodes with the sudden collapse of the SEAFD.

    I’m with the theory that Mysu was Kimimaro’s sister. Like what Nhelraios posted earlier, she and dad got taken by the FD when dad went bankrupt.

    I’d say Masakaki knows what’s actually happening and what the real purpose of the FD is, but is just saying he doesn’t to keep the existing FD’s going.

    • June 4, 2011 at 8:24 amIronicTales

      Probably all the FD’s are connected in a way and are probably used to bring the downfall to the economy and might be used for a “New World Order” or is being used my the Illuminati O.o

      Cause there was another Masakaki….. which raises the question. How many FD’s are out there?

      • June 4, 2011 at 8:32 amamado

        probably one for each continent since they said south east asia.
        or maybe country since the caribean disappeared and mikuni said to target singapore.

      • June 4, 2011 at 8:55 amIronicTales

        That reminds me. The woman who gave the money to her Kid and then he just vanishes. What the hell, she just walks off. Then even more people start to disappear and with some oblivious of whats going on.

        Whole countries disappearing and Mikunis plan of going all out and making people go bankrupt and losing their futures just to save a FD or economy seem to outbalance each other. Most of these things don’t make sense.

      • June 4, 2011 at 7:25 pmHagiri

        The kid’s existence was erased, so from her pov she nevener had a kid and that she was somehow spacing out in the park. Think Shakugan no Shana.

    • June 4, 2011 at 9:33 amDurifto

      It was built up from the beginning. The uncertain economic times, the dead children, the missing buildings, etc. So everything going into freefall wasn’t out of nowhere.

  • June 4, 2011 at 8:25 amGambler

    I’m curious if any of the subbers caught the Lehman shock reference. The version I saw had something completely different.

    I thought “mashu” was the future daughter of Kiminaro and Hanabi. The mother in the vision sounded like Hanabi. Anyway, it’s pretty sad how she’s doing at this point. Felt sorry for the professor too.

  • June 4, 2011 at 9:52 amjj

    this is episode 8, for those who look at the title and go “WTF”
    seems like Proof forgot to add the most obvious thing

  • June 4, 2011 at 10:14 amHiyono

    Well, at least there might be a bright side to all of this for Kimimaro. With everyone disappearing, Hanabi’s boyfriend probably disappeared into non-existence as well.

    • June 4, 2011 at 5:34 pmLectro Volpi

      Ah! I’m freezing! that was cold!

      Reminds me of a cute girl I knew that hanged around with a guy who was “richer” than me. At the end it turned out that his father was doing some shady deals with drug dealers and was indebted to the core (nothing he owned was his). What happened? they killed him later and they lost the big house and sports cars, etcetera… ah, losers.

      • June 5, 2011 at 1:48 pmSpoilerMaker

        That was just an average “cute” slut. You could have “hired” a better one to spend your time with.

      • June 5, 2011 at 2:47 pmLectro Volpi

        Hahaha! Do not worry, “She got better” (I mean, she reformed). But you pretty much resumed her situation at that time. Not that it matters to me anymore but good for her.

        More than the girl it was a competition. It just reminded me that Hanabi never expressed feelings for Kimimaro and he for at least one second actually thought that getting a girl with money was a good idea. Nope.

  • June 4, 2011 at 10:48 amewok40k

    we get RL version of country disappearing in Greece right now /jk
    well, shit is about to hit the fan with everyones futures disappearing on a nationwide scale
    can somebody call Homura? I get a nice target for her guns bullettime…

    • June 4, 2011 at 11:50 amRicalloo

      /jk…?

      Sadly, you are nearly completely accurate. >_<

    • June 4, 2011 at 8:42 pmGambler

      You can go back farther than that. The anime takes it to extremes though with the ability to control souls and time. But during the crisis, I’ve known people who lost half their 401k’s, employees let go en masse. I’ll never forget the feeling when I found out that the guy who was training me was laid off and I replaced him. That can suck the life out of people.

      I love the last scene. Blood sucking vampire squid anyone?

  • June 4, 2011 at 11:50 amRicalloo

    This episode reminded me of the TNG episode “Remember Me” when everyone on the Enterprise started disappearing and the people left behind couldn’t remember who had vanished.

  • June 4, 2011 at 12:09 pmAndré

    C vs Ano Hana. Which one is the best of the season? It’s hard to say, but I would go with C.

    • June 5, 2011 at 7:09 pmSuppa Tenko

      I actually look forward to the latest episode of Tiger & Bunny every week. C is right below Hidan no Aria on the same day.

  • June 4, 2011 at 1:11 pmeld

    who says Msyu is a girl she could be a He

  • June 4, 2011 at 1:57 pmctscloud

    Good ep, wheres the # at the top? lol

  • June 4, 2011 at 2:01 pmRickyMack

    why are his hands so wrinkly? maybe they’re playing some inception thing with the ages.

  • June 4, 2011 at 3:39 pmsarcastic_weasel

    I’m only in it for Msyu now.

    The allegory is too heavy-handed and preachy, the pacing is whacked, and it just isn’t entertaining. It’s a show where I’m rooting for total global annihilation, just to see if they would omit THAT scene too.

    Jerks. :P

    Ano Hana is by far the better Noitamnia series of the two, IMO. This one is just all over the place.

  • June 4, 2011 at 3:49 pmCommie

    you missed 08 in the title

  • June 4, 2011 at 4:09 pmDa5id

    The possible incest aside, does anyone else think this is kind of going way too fast for a story like this? Wouldn’t have had better pacing in a two quarter series?

  • June 4, 2011 at 5:28 pmSpecie

    Hmm, I wonder what the Sepiroth is doing on Kimimaro’s back? O_o.

    Anyway, I thought it was a rather creepy episode, what with people disappearing all over. Especially with that child disappearing… :( . I guess Singapore disappearing is a metaphoor for a real-world total economic collapse.

    As for the debate on the Present VS the Future thing, well.. I’d say that both are important. The present is important of course, because that the future is uncertain. Plus, one could argue that no matter what, the same end still awaits us all in the future: death, so maybe living like a king in the present is the way to go? <_<. On the other hand… The future also symbolizes hope, the possibility that things will become better, which is especially important for those who has a shitty present to begin with. Countries have gone though plenty of disasters before, yet risen again – in short, the future always holds the promise of improvement at some point…

    Heh, feels like Code Geass all over again…
    Schneizel: The future may be worse than the present.
    Lelouch: No, it will be better. No matter how long it takes, people will continue to purse happiness.

    As for Mikuni knowing the whole truth or not… Well, maybe he does, but I think that the reason that he's so struck in his "present"-ideology is the words his sister told him.

    • June 5, 2011 at 7:09 pmSuppa Tenko

      Its just one of those strange things the empty frames do.

  • June 4, 2011 at 5:29 pmLectro Volpi

    I can’t go back like a pussy now. I will trust Mikuni-sama with my life!

    But that doesn’t mean that Sennoza was wrong, he had a point, at the end it falls into a subjective question: Present or future?

  • June 4, 2011 at 9:27 pmewok40k

    it is pointless debate for me, you have to balance future with present… without present there will be obviously no future, without the future there is no need for the present.

  • June 4, 2011 at 11:27 pmKaris

    This episode scared me, and at the same time, feels kinda rushed.

    I always felt that if there is an imminent disaster that can destroy civilization, it will up to the human will to decide to live and survive the ordeal. The present connects to the future, so that means out current actions will affect the future. To me: if the future is about to be destroyed; if preventing it is impossible, then perhaps the best option is to endure the worst and survive no matter what measures you take. If the world is destoryed on the surface, then we may have a chance to rebuild everything from scratch. But to survive together, we must trust one another.
    Human society can be destroyed in various ways; natural disasters, finanacial crisis, war, depletion of natural resources, and perhaps human error. Any of these can be avoided or endured, but when it comes to this series, an exchanging your future for huge amounts of money is not what I call a good deal.
    Of course, this is just my own outlook of a possible future, so I’m not really sure what I’m talking about.

  • June 5, 2011 at 2:39 amDevirtue

    Didn’t it seem like Mysu is kimimaro’s daughter?

  • June 5, 2011 at 3:09 am1Lau

    I find this episode of C and Steins Gate quite similar in terms of changing worlds.
    Both are very intriguing as well.

  • June 5, 2011 at 6:03 amRandomDreamz

    Doesn’t it say that their assets is thier future so it makes more sense if Msyu is going to be kimimaro’s daughter in the “future”, than being his sister because that would mean that it happened in the past.

    • June 5, 2011 at 6:32 amamado

      then that would mean he’s falling for his daughter…

      • June 5, 2011 at 9:12 amStaal

        I’ve seen worse in anime. This stuff doesn’t surprise me anymore. However Msyu is his future that much has been said. So I’m guessing future wife or daughter.

      • June 5, 2011 at 7:33 pmomeganx

        PLEASE let it be wife….Cuz Hanabi is SOOO BORING…

  • June 5, 2011 at 1:45 pmSpoilerMaker

    It seems to be the most successful show about GAMBLING. What i don’t like is that the authors replaced gambling terms with “finances” which created a total mess in their attempts to build some reasonable economics-related “explanation”. For normal understanding it is enough to replace the unrelated words with gambling terms, this way “financial district” becomes “gambling district” which makes much more sense plot-wise.
    Smoking too much weed while reading some basic things about finances undoubtfully doesn’t help at all to make some REASONABLE and consistent plot ;-)

    • June 5, 2011 at 5:28 pmProoof

      did you know that in real life, playing in the financial market is also very much like gambling? ;)

      • June 5, 2011 at 9:20 pmSpoilerMaker

        What kind of financial markets ? And what kind of playing ? Most of it is just financial speculation thanks to existence of financial derivatives and some sort of money laundering in banking sphere. Sometimes it is close but different from pure gambling.
        Gambling means that some participants of the play put together some pool of some product, usually money and agree that after some stupid actions each of them get a share in such pool, the amount of the share is proportional to some random value. They don’t sell or produce anything. And some share of that goes to those who organized the play – they are the actual winners.

      • June 5, 2011 at 9:43 pmProoof

        I mean investing in stocks in such. Short/long positions, call options, etc… people basically use money to gamble on how the economy (or at least a certain company) will fare; they also do not sell or produce anything, and winning often means someone else loses

      • June 5, 2011 at 9:48 pmSpoilerMaker

        I described it in the earlier post – it depends if you invest in real stocks and gain some share in the collectively owned property or if you “invest” in some financial derivatives (in such case it could be gambling). Otherwise it could be considered speculation.

      • June 5, 2011 at 10:00 pmcybersteel

        Its pretty much the same, using money to gain money. Or if you’re unlucky lose it.

      • June 5, 2011 at 10:04 pmSpoilerMaker

        Making money by investments into collectively owned property and pure gambling differ in total meaning and effect – gambling doesn’t produce anything, even if from your own personal point of view it may be just spending money to get money.

      • June 5, 2011 at 10:19 pmSpoilerMaker

        Stock issue itself to gain some more means for extending the production initially leads to investment in its non-gambling form, regardless of who decides to purchase the stock. Secondary stock exchange after their issue may be considered speculation or sometimes gambling if they are used for pointless exchange between some gamblers based on some random value. In such case all the gamblers (as a whole mass) represent a single investment entity because they initially payed for the whole amount of their gambling toys in the form of investment into the collectively owned property. Each time they purchase some new shares from the manufacturer, it is called investment, but each time they organize pointless exchange of the existing shares based on some random value, it is called gambling. Beyond that there is also speculation which happens when there is an intermediate link between the final investor and the issuer of stock papers, and there is also a process of changing the ownership of the shares which could also have non-gambling nature.

      • June 5, 2011 at 10:37 pmProoof

        true but when you bet on the fortune’s of others or yourself, does it really matter what the side effect of investment is?

        and even so, in the “Financial District” the Midas Bank isn’t simply letting people fight each other for money, they have some stake in it too — collecting those future’s as collateral is not truly pointless; it’s somewhat analogous to buying stock on credit, and it’s not pointless (I admit that the whole system in C is poorly explained, or hasn’t been explained yet)
        if it was truly just gambling, then the “house” (the bank in this case) would just take a cut of the winnings in each Deal

      • June 5, 2011 at 10:45 pmSpoilerMaker

        The investment effect exists separately from gambling. About the plot of this show – answer a simple question – what does the “gambling district” actually produce or what production does it invest to (as a whole entity) ?
        And there can be no valid financial explanation from the weed-powered authors who are gamblers themselves.

      • June 5, 2011 at 11:25 pmProoof

        the show doesn’t/hasn’t revealed that answer yet, which I do think is late
        however I am assuming that the Midas have some sort of use for people’s futures, be it the “production” of something or some other personal benefit (think Madoka), simply because I’m assuming they are rational, self-interested beings that aren’t ruining people just for the heck of it

        and about whether the writers are high, well a lot of the stuff in this show is pretty crazy/random, but I’m also seeing a lot of solid analogies with real world finances, even not in every aspect

      • June 5, 2011 at 11:59 pmSpoilerMaker

        Not more analogies than if you try to make some story after reading some serious work about finances without understanding it (and hoping that people would find some non-existent sense in your random tries). You may pack your story with some random terms from that book, but it won’t help it to make any sense. That is what differs the authors of such shows from acknowledged fiction book writers – the said writers before and in the process of writing their works spend a great deal of time consulting with available experts and theorists in such areas (it may take years), unlike the authors of such shows who produce random and mostly pointless ideas by discussing the things within the people of their circle or making a try on reading something they fail to understand.

      • June 6, 2011 at 12:40 amamado

        just stop over here Prooof. this is spoilermaker, ive seen his other comments on some series like star driver.
        he’ll just repeat this in the next episode.

        we already get your point. you said this in the other posts and yeah, the anime might not be really doing research about the gambling aspect but so what? the show is still enjoyable for some people.
        at least talk about something diff next time. like “I hate/like this character because blah blah blah” or “I think that blah blah blah”. your repeating the same complaint that you already made. you’ve proven your point. now try talking about something else about this ep.

        if you cant stand that fact, why bother keeping up at this point when nothing has changed? and ranting the same thing again.

      • June 6, 2011 at 1:17 amSpoilerMaker

        It is not likely that i would repeat it in the next entry, but i just find it funny people trying to find some sense where it doesn’t exist. That triggers the whole process of people making pointless excuses to something that is not valid from the very beginning.
        And the difference is that i saw really dumb people watching “star driver” – and the situation was a bit different – you may just read the comments, i didn’t hide my intentions or attitude.
        Also, I can’t repeat the same “route” as in discussion about “star driver” as it was about the gathering of “fabulously dumb” people enjoying the waste of the show industry – and i did think what i was writing about before actually making any arguments. With the lack of similar show in this season i just find stress relief from mocking the dumb consumers of similar low-quality media products – in other places (just like those Britney Spears fans i mentioned that time).
        In the discussion of this show I’m just watching the reaction of people who are trying to rationalize something which makes no sense from the very beginning. Indeed, the discussion about some non-existent theory behind the plot makes no sense. Also, amado, if you think a bit, you may notice, that i don’t repeat myself that much, i just elaborate more and more on the valid and real theory, in a way that is more simple than it is written in most specialized books. It is kind of interesting to argue a bit when you see people discussing why 2+2=3 or 2+2=5.
        “the anime might not be really doing research about the gambling aspect” – probably you meant “financial aspect”, because from the gamblers’ point of view, it is rather well-built. It completely fails on finances and related theories, but it is rather well-done in terms of gambling – if you replace everything called “finances” with “gambling”, the plot is almost perfectly built in gambling terms. Why arguing any more ?

      • June 6, 2011 at 1:27 amcybersteel

        Alright, no more replies please. SpoilerMaker got enough comments to entertain him already.

      • June 6, 2011 at 1:40 amamado

        theres rarely any discussion here about the real financial part. its just simply people betting something that they cant comprehend(their future) for money here.

        its just like deadman where they fight and the loser loses something other than the fight. the winner gets money. but the winner would eventually lose to someone else and the process continues. the only true winner is the one who made it.
        this can also be true to real life and not just on the financial part.

        I dont really see another reason for there to be analytical or related to finance. your just drawing the line and assuming. and for the others who try to analyze it, talk it to them or just ignore it.

        at least talk about something diff once in a while. like why are you still keeping up with it. is it for the characters or just one character? stating that theres something you dislike about the show is fine but saying it over and over again will get annoying, especially if you dont talk about anything else and not saying anything positive.

      • June 6, 2011 at 1:55 amSpoilerMaker

        In this show my point of view is rather liking or disliking what all characters do. Wouldn’t it be more beneficial for them to stop fighting (betting and such) ? Look at it another way – all characters own some world of their own. But each time they fight to “win”, most of the time they all lose a part of their common possession (their world). Each “win” is someone’s “loss”, and the total sum becomes lower and lower, therefore leading to their continuous downfall.
        Regardless who wins they tend just to lose a part of their world. Do you see any of the characters trying to stop that vicious cycle ?

      • June 6, 2011 at 2:12 amProoof

        that’s why I think the system is the true enemy, but breaking it directly would have severe consequences

      • June 6, 2011 at 2:14 amamado

        stopping that vicious cycle is almost impossible.
        we, as a human race, is never satisfied. there are some exceptions but the majority are that. which is why there are conflicts going around the world. we are also diff so not everyone would think the same way as the others.

        that is a never ending debate.

        the only one I know who was able to stop that vicious cycle was lelouch, and he even admitted that it was only temporarily but the point is he did. I dont think kimimaro or mikuni can do it.
        even madoka knew wouldnt be able to stop that kind of cycle. instead, she worked a way around it to make it more “fairer” for the magical girls and provide hope.

      • June 6, 2011 at 2:28 amSpoilerMaker

        The reasonable solution is to convince as many as possible players to quit the system and prevent the entry of any new players. As the system “feeds” on the new players, it would just collapse with less problems than in many other possible scenarios (as the total possession of all remaining players would inevitably decline).

      • June 6, 2011 at 2:51 amamado

        reasonable? yes.
        possible? I think not.

        as I said, everybody is diff. some would help others while others would make people suffer. some dont care for what will happen.
        they can pull just about anyone in it and there doesnt seem to be any pattern.
        some of them dont know what they’re risking while others really need money for survival in the real world. and it doesnt seem like you can just quit.

        probably if both players do not fight, there will still be a winner. its not like everyone starts out even, the ones with the bigger cash will have the lead.
        they can end with a tie by having it 50% with each other but that wont work every time. like a 75 vs. 25 can draw if both let their scores be 50 but if its something like 50 vs. 51, then someone will still have to lose part of their future.

      • June 6, 2011 at 3:13 amSpoilerMaker

        About the show – what can the characters actually “purchase” with their “money” ? They totally depend on their “money” being acknowledged by the rest as such, not only by the rest but by the other gamblers as well. If the others suddenly stop acknowledging their “money” they will end up with useless items with no actual value and with the system they supported so much. It is not like the one with more “money” would always have advantage when they don’t fight. A simple example – is if one person happens to get all paper money of some country, the money would drop their actual value to the value of the paper they were made from.

      • June 6, 2011 at 4:36 amamado

        what I meant was in the deals.
        they apparently cant escape them and they have shown to be somehow “controlled” by it as shown with kimimaro and that other guy from 1st ep.
        its been shown with something like two balls meeting each other then the battle starts. it increases/decreases in size when a player is hit.

        as for the money, well its money. it helps you buy stuff. food, clothes, houses, etc.
        the money looks normal to the people not involved with the financial district.

  • June 5, 2011 at 2:38 pmAxel

    After watching this episode, everything became alot more clear about what was going on and why Mikuni even felt the need to “fight against” the FD. Sure, it was obvious that people were being effected by the deals, but we didn’t really see anything bigger than that until the end of the previous episode. I just knewwww there was more to what the taxi driver was saying and more to the disappearance of the buildings Kimimaro thought he remembered.

    This series is ridiculously amazing actually. It makes business and finance interesting, much like Spice & Wolf made economics interesting. This plot is quite incredible too if you think about how accurately it mirrors what’s been going on in the world over the past decade. People who wanted things or a lifestyle they couldn’t afford right away were offered a way of having it without any kind of payment upfront for it (like Masaki coming to offer you being an Entre). So when they “bankrupted” (ie: lost their jobs, lived beyond their means, made bad investments, etc) and had to hand over what was owed, their “futures” (ie: houses, possessions, etc) were literally taken from them. Which in turn effected the economies of whole countries and countries became deeply indebted, using money they never really had in the first place. Now countries are trying to infuse their economies with money, much like Mikuni seems to be doing. But I have this feeling… Whatever Mikuni is doing, it isn’t going to work. If he’s trying to literally buy the country out of debt, wouldn’t that be kinda silly considering the Midas Money is the credit they all really don’t have nor can afford to have? It’s like making a payment on a loan with another loan. Seems counterproductive to me…

    Maybe that’s why Kimimaro can’t pay to get a future back, because it’s backwards to pay off a loan with another loan. And oh lord, Kimimaro represents the unfortunate middle class who unwittingly got involved in the mess and are now trying to find a way to navigate it. I’ve got no idea what the guy could do, much like I’ve got no idea what people today can do other than finding another source of legitimate income and starting from scratch to pay everything back over time.

  • June 5, 2011 at 7:32 pmomeganx

    I like the greedy guy’s point of view on money…. HE’s smarter than he looks.

  • June 5, 2011 at 9:02 pmsealouse

    Aa soon as I saw those tentacles carry that thing away I immediately thought C = Cthulhu. Yep it’s all his doing to destroy the world.

  • June 5, 2011 at 11:04 pmKGFJ

    This is a strong episode, but feels really rushed. Suddenly all the shit happened in just 1 episode. I wonder why the Southeast Asian FD went bankrupt, does it actually mirror what happens here in our world?
    Still don’t really get the whole debate about present vs future though :( I’ve rewatched the ep and still can’t get the hang of it. Future exists because there is present and present exists for future right? What actually are they debating?

    • June 6, 2011 at 2:40 amdamrod

      They are debating whether it is more important to use the present for creating the future you want or having goals and all for the future to create the present you need for completing your goals.

      • June 7, 2011 at 7:23 amKGFJ

        Oooooh! Thank you, finally I get it! :D

    • June 6, 2011 at 2:56 amamado

      aka its shneizel vs. lelouch ideals all over again.

  • June 6, 2011 at 12:08 amLectro Volpi

    Sennoza´s asset was, tough a bit eerie, an Angel. I wonder if it was because of being an aggressive in combat, yet generous person.

  • June 6, 2011 at 2:41 amSpoilerMaker

    Some more details about it:
    The important thing here is that the system is not actually a financial system, which serves as an infrastructure for actual exchange and represents production of goods and services, as well as their exchange, but a gambling system, which feeds merely on the new players. Moreover, while being unable to produce anything, it continuously destroy itself. The process is simple – each fight takes some amount of their collectively owned property regardless who wins, and its only way to replenish itself is to get new players.
    It means its collapse without new players and even more “peaceful” collapse when a part of its current players agree to quit it.

    • June 6, 2011 at 8:09 pmGambler

      Apparently I missed this somewhat long discussion on finance/investing vs gambling. I picked the name “Gambler” for a reason. Anyway, if you want a reasonable balance between the two, I think Warren Buffet’s definition between investing/trading/speculating/gambling is something to go on.

      You can throw all the terms and theories regarding finance and exchanges and I believed them until I started working at a bank. Now I’m more of a Michael Lewis follower. I think the last time you can somewhat get away with purchasing represented partial ownership of a firm was back in the late 90′s with the birth of internet retail investing. Go further back and you have supposed mom and pops owning GE or Ford stock. Nowadays though there are so many types of securities and the degrees of ownership is so vast (it’s less about the mom and pop and more the portfolio manager and algo program) it’s a very fine line based on belief. I am not a believer.

      Regardless of where you stand though, make no mistake, the reach of the financial markets in the real world is very close to that of the show. For those in the US, even if you do not actively participate in the markets, you are involved. It’s in your 401k, pension plan, insurance, mortgage, student loans and all other forms of debt. Your collective assets will get involved in deals with other assets and it can affect your future.

    • June 6, 2011 at 11:45 pmSpoilerMaker

      If you want to talk about something specific, the discussion is possible, but you rather mention your beliefs and some changes in them. What have debt-related concepts have to do with gambling ? To be determined, the degree of ownership requires a lot of information about the particular securities and their types, but it is possible. Also, you mentioned pension plan and other kinds of insurance which partially represent the whole centralized insurance system – and it is not related to gambling, but rather some sort of distribution of goods consumption over time which is required for normal functioning of the entire nation.

  • June 7, 2011 at 3:47 pmhahaha

    isn’t there a way for them to take back their future ? (buy back / win / hedge the collateral?)
    there has to be a way otherwise it would not make sense to receive money that cannot be returned and that whenever the amount is reduced your future is being destroyed eventually killing you.
    I do not know why I am starting to think something like Clannad is going to happen (time travel)

  • June 8, 2011 at 8:15 amgecd

    so all entrepeneur have “reading steiner” ability?

    and what happen to the profesor? is he dead?

    • June 9, 2011 at 8:54 amKing Dragun

      Yep, the receptionist say to Kimimaro that he was run over by drunken driver, and that his funeral was taking place in Hokkaido.

  • June 11, 2011 at 5:23 pmShirikatsu

    C is the effect of the financial district upon reality, namely the disappearing of countries or the major change of one, not the guild’s plan. Oh and *Masakaki.

  • June 19, 2011 at 7:34 pmfluca

    This anime is particularly interesting from an economics point of view.
    Souichirou’s tactics mirror Keynes theory (expenditure in order to get the economy moving after a crisis), while Sennoza’s point of view mirror Hayek’s teachings.
    An interesting and fun way to know more about it is to watch this video: www youtube com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk (Sorry if posting links is not allowed, but it is worth a watch, albeit the song is biased towards Hayek)…

    The point this anime is trying to make, on a ‘personal’ level, is that if you borrow money (say, mortgage your house, or even lend money to pay for it), you are, in a way, gambling with your own future, since, if you don’t do good enough (financially), you will lose both your house and your future income, along, probably, with your peace of mind.

    It also expands on this showing what is happening to Japan’s economy and trying to show a light on what is to come if appropriate and timely measures are not taken. In a sense, Higashi no Eden tried to do the same…

    Very nice anime indeed.

    • June 19, 2011 at 7:51 pmfluca

      Another interesting point is that midas’ money, to an extent, represents the money that ‘originates’ on the stock market, and which plenty of people says don’t bear any connection to reality (a good example would be the dot-com bubble). This evil, ‘not real’ money per passes through the whole economy of a country and when it’s gone, markets will or might collapse, taking with them the livelihood of plenty of people.

      There are plenty more allegories to speak about, but I won’t bore you all with my views any longer :P

  • July 13, 2011 at 7:59 pmWilbur Bloebaum

    I enjoy reading your posts but sorry to say but this time you perhaps have been too hasty when writing because the post it seems rushed.