Random Curiosity

Re:CREATORS – 06 »« Re:CREATORS – 04

Re:CREATORS – 05

「どこよりも冷たいこの水の底 So, why don’t we have ourselves a guys’ night out?」 (Doko Yori Mo Tsumetai Kono Mizu no Soko)
“This Water is Coldest at the Bottom So, why don’t we have ourselves a guys’ night out?”

All I can say after this episode is that Re:Creators’ fighting better be impressive. Four and a half episodes of pure exposition and plot/world building elaboration is enough to dissuade a plurality of viewers, potentially even a majority. No matter how necessary the information may be, the question of execution front and centre as Re:Creators could have handled this aspect better. Splitting the information up into more easily digestible chunks, permeating it through battles and confrontational chit chat, or just plain releasing it later, all were reasonable options. Nevertheless all of that is behind us now, as Re:Creators has finally set up its conflict and given answer to the most important question. Yes, we at last know flat is indeed justice.

Alright, jokes aside—unless you ascribe to the church of loli—there was actually a lot to like with Re:Creators this week. Rui just might be my new favourite character for the sheer ridiculousness of his personality. He’s timid, he’s meek, and he sounds utterly pathetic until put on the back foot; that’s where the gloves come off. I got a huge kick out of the Shinji robot act, although his run over of Celestia and utter shutdown of her looks killed me—I don’t often pause a show, but when I do, there’s tears in my eyes. Hilariously as well the food joke continues with our androgynous neurotic, and he looks humorously depressed when apologizing over wrecked housing. Plus Meteora rounds out the comedy with her “borrowing” of a few ATGMs and one minigun conspicuously absent from earlier battles (hint hint), apology retroactively given. Structural problems aside, Re:Creators certainly knows how to forge one hell of an interesting cast.

As usual, however, the interesting part once again lay in the info dump details. Going full GATE and bringing in the Japanese government surprised me—seriously thought it was Gunpuku for a moment—but it’s a logical development. Barring the usual alphabet soup of titles, agencies, and departments (seriously, leave that to Seikai Suru Kado please), this development at least answers timeline and party setup. For example we know Gunpuku was the first materialization, and that she may be hesitating over potential “restorative” forces capable of sending her back to her original story. Furthermore we now know Re:Creators’ conflict will be over containing Gunpuku’s damage, restraining her minions, and protecting those minions’ creators. Besides confirming the importance of creators and world altering later on, this sets up the next few arcs as Gunpuku’s real raison d’etre slowly comes to light.

Of course though the big reveal was confirmation of the obvious: Setsuna. A lot of people suspected mystery suicide girl was Setsuna, and that has now been confirmed. Gunpuku—or Altair at this point—is Setsuna’s creation, whether only in concept or artwork. Souta knew Setsuna in some capacity, and was involved in Altair’s creation, whether directly via drawing or through inspiration—it’s unclear at the moment. I highly suspect Setsuna’s reason for suicide will be critical later on, as it definitely impacted Souta’s artistic interest and controls Gunpuku’s Altair’s actions. Considering Setsuna’s story is largely a concept and appears to be changed by outside influences, there’s a key piece of information missing which will affect how this plot goes. No matter the reveals this week, Re:Creators has yet to show the full extent of its plot.

With five episodes down and the premise out of the way, I’d say it’s time for the action. Damn near everything important has been elaborated upon, and we now have a basis for future events. If Re:Creators has any sense it will give the audience what it wants, and soon. Considering Yuya’s creator has been explicitly mentioned, however, I think we won’t have long to wait before stuff starts hitting the fan. Bring the fight(s), my body is ready.

May 6, 2017 at 9:47 pm
81 comments »
  • May 6, 2017 at 10:52 pmyoloalchemist

    Altair’s plot may actually turn out to be a revenge plot after all.

  • May 6, 2017 at 11:23 pmzztop

    http://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2005%20-%20Large%2008.jpg

    You think Rui’s androgynous, wait til you see the MC of the upcoming Knights & Magic anime:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C67ZLK-UwAEud-b.jpg

    Here’s a synopsis for those interested:
    Show Spoiler ▼

    • May 7, 2017 at 4:50 amDevastator001

      Eru’s a Hideyoshi sub-species XD

    • May 7, 2017 at 10:25 pmPancakes

      The wonders never cease XD

  • May 6, 2017 at 11:31 pmmaou

    lancer: lancer to saber where’s first lieutenant itami? over

  • May 7, 2017 at 12:16 amzztop

    Re Creators trivia:
    -Rui’s Gigas Machina was originally made to be as tall as Celestia’s Vogelschevalier (17 m). The director suggested making the Gigas bigger (55 m) in order to emphasize the difference. (The Gigas is a little shorter than the Leaning Tower of Pisa, at 56.4m.)

    -Hiroe says Rui is a mixture of several characters from mecha shows, including Ikari Shinji.

    -When discussing Celesia’s character, who had some moments of comedy relief, Hiroe said he wasn’t expecting her to do so when he started writing the series. In a sense, he said the character became “three dimensional”.

    -Hiroe purposely wrote the government and the female officer as competent because he felt it was frustrating to have people in power doing idiotic things.

    https://www.sunday-webry.com/events/re_creators_naked/interview05/

    • May 7, 2017 at 6:35 amMistic

      -When discussing Celesia’s character, who had some moments of comedy relief, Hiroe said he wasn’t expecting her to do so when he started writing the series. In a sense, he said the character became “three dimensional”.

      Interesting. Perhaps that explains why Selesia feels more refreshing and human than Meteora. It’s too evident that the latter is being remote-controlled by the plot to send the message the creators want. But I find Selesia more likeable in her little outbursts than Meteora in all her supposedly meaningful monologues.

      (Rui, how could you say no to a date with Selesia?! Your tastes leave a lot to be desired it’s not that I wanted the series to explore what will happen if characters from different fictional universes start having more serious relationships than just a convenient alliance, not at all)

      I appreciate that the authors wanted to break the usual “authorities are morons” trope. That said, it will never be a discredited trope, given that it happens too many times in real life.

      • May 7, 2017 at 7:40 amzztop

        That’s because Rui ascribes to the Church of Loli is a lolicon pervert has different tastes in girls for a boy his age.

      • May 7, 2017 at 10:30 pmPancakes

        Probably IMO, besides episode one’s end scenes, Meteora has lacked the humour helping liven up the other characters. Hell I think Rui offered more personality in ~5 minutes than Meteora has over three weeks. Meteora’s hypothesizing doesn’t bother me as much as others, but it’s definitely wearing thin now.

  • May 7, 2017 at 12:16 amRandomAnon

    The name of this anime should be changed to Re: Meteora and the main character should be changed to Meteora. You can’t have a minute of this anime without her saying anything. Some people say that the problem lies on the super info dump. To be honest, I have no problems with it. If it is needed, sure. I’m okay if an anime sacrifice 1/4 of its entire cour just to get everything out on the table and reward us with smooth story flow for the remaining 3/4. However, having one character, which is not even the main protagonist, narrator, or antagonist, talk about everything for those excruciating episode kills off this semi interesting anime.

    It’s not even Meteora’s “arc” or the story or premise does not really revolve around her only at this time, but all the focus is given to her. The character focus on this anime makes everything off balance and all the characters, important or not, becomes drawn background and white noise.

    Here is what I think the show’s format is:

    Opening Song

    Character 1: What’s happening?
    Character 2: You should ask Meteora.
    Meteora: Blah blah blah. [nonstop for 5 minutes]

    Character 1: What are we going to do?
    Character 2: You should ask Meteora.
    Meteora: Blah blah blah. [nonstop for 5 minutes]

    Character 1: Who are these guys?
    Character 2: You should as–
    Meteora: Blah blah blah. [nonstop for 5 minutes]

    Character 1: Ho–
    Meteora: Blah blah blah. [nonstop for 5 minutes]

    Ending Credits

    My Synopsis and Review for this episode:
    Yay! New characters. Focus on them. Rui gets decent screen time. Rui acts up. After three minutes of airtime.

    Me: “Oh noes! Don’t get away from the screen!”
    Meteora: “Too late, son. It’s Meteora time!”

    > Brief Action Scene <

    Meteora: "Stop robot! Put weapons down!"
    Military Personnel: "I'll listen to you since you don't appear to be brain dead like the other people behind you, mah nigga."
    Meteora: "You got right you damn mothaf*cka."

    At least that parts over. Nice. Government exists and ain't that stupid.

    Me: "Oh noes, Cabinet Whore. Don't engage that bitch!"
    Meteora: "Guess what you weeabo, it's Meteora part 2."

    Ending Credits

    Meteora dominated the episode once again. In estimate, she took more than five minutes of the show. That's around 25%. To be honest, that's already an improvement. But it is still something that can easily frustrate me.

    For some people, Meteora's long ass dialogues are important to the story. Her words build the world created for Re: Creators. The technicalities being introduced by her are crucial for us to fully grasp this complex world. Well, not really.

    The other characters are just built to become too stupid to even understand what's going around them and create their own opinions and hypotheses. Or, it's just the other characters are just complete bros who let the smartass bro talk his ass out and avoid interjecting or whatever for her sake.

    On the other hand, her statements and explanations are just too long winded. Yeah, it's how her character was built after all by her creator. Nonetheless, the director of this anime could have done something to lessen the burden of the viewers. I hope Meteora's VA is earning lots on this gig. She has the most lines after all.

    Anyway, I apologize for the wall of text. It was supposed to be longer, but I forgot the other things I wanted to say and thought that adding more would be a waste of time.

    • May 7, 2017 at 3:07 amfrubam

      It’s because Meteora is best girl. You best accept that.

    • May 7, 2017 at 3:51 amAkiRan

      tbh, among all of the protagonist group there, Meteora is one of the intellectual girl which lead the team in sense of direction or the assurance of the group. As if without her presence, things can go worst after she highlight certain stuff such as distortion, publicity, politics and world war could just started anytime.

      Seriously, I wish those 3 creator or the main character as the guy would be smarter enough to handle or think for solution on this situation. As ended, they just a regular person which they focus too much on their relationship with the fictional characters which currently exist. What is that ending though, the main character should do something about it rather then keep on being ignorant like he always be. (unless he have his reason of keeping secret)

    • May 7, 2017 at 6:17 amMistic

      It pains me to say this, but you are right: Meteora is the main problem of Re:Creators.

      As you say, she’s being associated with almost every infodump in the plot. She knows more than the rest, she gets the lead in every action and decision, and her hypothesis are taken as Word of God. Because they are Word of God; the writers are using her as their mouthpiece and to guide the story in the direction they want. She’s a far-from-subtle Creator’s Pet.

      And this is sad, because Meteora would be a character I would be rooting for in any other story, but now I dread every time she hogs the spotlight and throws infodumps.

      If this continues, I can only see two ways to redeem her character: either she dies as a martyr and frees the other characters from her shadow, or she turns out to be the real final boss.

      • May 7, 2017 at 7:38 amAnon2

        >taken as Word of God
        Not really that bad, when some parts of the governments says they can’t believe it. In the end this is more of a contingency plan any ways. Though I do agrees that she is in the spotlight too much so far.
        Also the problem is not Meteora imo, it’s her magic book aka the super google. That thing is too much of a cheat item.

        I wonder how old Meteora is, she is after all a magical sage in a magical library.

      • May 7, 2017 at 8:13 amzztop

        Tell that to Hiroe Rei, he’s semi-apologised for Ep 4 being such a static infodump.

      • May 7, 2017 at 8:40 amMistic

        @Anon2
        I would still say it’s Meteora. The magic book was a MacGuffin to handwave her position as the narrative device/infodump master. And that was only at the beginning. You will have noticed that in the last episodes she hasn’t even brought up her trusted artifact in her explanations. Her theory about the end of the world didn’t rely on that, only on her interpretation of Gunpuku’s words.

        The book exists to justify Meteora’s role, not the other way round.

        That some government officials don’t believe Meteora is logical (and still, they are no better than background noise), yet they all are going to act as if she was telling the truth. She mentions in this episode that by the time the first ‘crack’ appears, it will be too late for the world, which is very convenient as a way to handwave any potential criticism against her lack of evidence (not that any character in the setting feels the need to point it out).

      • May 7, 2017 at 1:43 pmRandomAnon

        If some people were looking for the biggest twist in this anime, it would have been already predicted. Meteora is actually the creator of this anime’s universe. Title should be Melancholy of Haruhi Meteora.

        One of the biggest problems with her info dump is that it becomes a form of Deus Ex Machina. Answers and solutions to the main protagonist group’s questions and problems are readily provided through Meteora. The plot advances with her just sitting on a couch and telling everyone what’s happening and what to do.

        Conflicts that should have been the core of the story have been brushed away easily. These same conflicts could have been a way to introduce how the characters act and think. Although, it was achieved, but I’m sure wasn’t intended.

        We saw that the main guy was just a tool, a reference guide to otaku fandom. Someone who’s brain power equates to 9k Hz processing power. It takes him a lot of time to react. It takes him a lot to remember. He isn’t an emo guy who’s introverted. It’s just he can’t keep up with the Meteora train. Or he’s just too busy ogling and distracted.

        Celestia just know how to hack and slash people and flirt with kids wearing spandex who prefers younger kids. Marine just want cute girls in her apartment. Celestia’s creator is someone who smokes and is Celestia’s creator (that’s just sad). The same goes for the other guy.

        Meteora’s so cancerous that even Yuuya Mirokuji (the cool guy with purple hair) sense it and preferred to not join their group. For me, Meteora’s character needs not to be redeemed. Her creator must have made her as an info dump character. The makers of this anime should learn how to navigate the scene away from her from time to time and make the other important characters be on the spotlight.

        And no. I don’t want her to become the main boss. I don’t want her to try killing the characters and the viewers with exposition tsunami.

        TL;DR: This is just bad direction. Staff thinks Meteora is best girl, too, that’s why camera’s always on her. Too late for story change or modifying her character. Premise also makes it difficult for these characters to suddenly change and I would not want to have a few more episodes of her character development.

        Best solution is to let the rest of the story unfold through the eyes of other characters. The other characters can redeem the show since they are still practically blank slates. As for Meteora, she must be set aside for now.

      • May 7, 2017 at 10:45 pmPancakes

        If the show continues emphasizing Meteora after this I’m inclined to agree too. It’s as though Meteora was selected as expository mouth piece out of some fear of running the usual type of courageous character (i.e. Celestia) who has all the answers and solves everything. Instead of invigorating the story though, the result was a four episode info dump and marginalization of everyone but Meteora.

        I think Meteora’s role was intended to be funny in some regard–see everyone staring at Meteora for answers before the JGSDF interruption–but because only Meteora is providing the answers, the comedy is lost and we are left with a Mary Sue-esque scenario. It’s incredibly easy to correct this problem, but Re:Creators must start sidelining Meteora in favour of other characters.

    • May 7, 2017 at 8:27 amhaseo0408

      I´m with in this one, now all the information is out in the open and the goverment even has a role to play in the story so next episodes can focus in all hell breaking loose between the two factions. By the way, for me Selesi is the best girl in this show even when Meteora is kind of the voice of reason of the group; I´m betting in some romance between Selesi and Souta to see how that would afftec her and her story overall.

    • May 7, 2017 at 9:57 amzztop

      I think the general fun of this episode is the various interactions and further expansion of plot details. Arguably Hiroe has to stop relying on Meteora so much to convey his themes, but I think this moved much better than last week’s episode.
      Plus we know Marine’s real name now.

    • May 7, 2017 at 11:37 amRedRocket

      How do you think Meteora is not a main character if not the main character of this story? I rewatched episode one, our narrator character is correct he is not a main character in the story as stated by himself. The narrator states that a unidentified she is the main character of the story. This misunderstanding is caused by the lack of contemporary works that use a narrator character opening although narrator characters have often been used in works of fiction including by Shakespeare. Narrator characters are often minor characters, often very minor characters in a story.
      Right now this show has been working as a ensemble drama with all the characters working as a team with no clear main, this is also a valid story technique but uncommon in most anime.

    • May 8, 2017 at 3:12 amMala

      Alright so I wasn’t crazy after all and people really fo notice that Meteora talks way too much in this series so far.

  • May 7, 2017 at 12:38 amPurpleBomber

    What a revelation to have the government be organized, proactive, and all around competent in an anime (granted compared to real life such a thing is just as fictional as the usual jokes). Though as someone mentioned in a previous episode, most of the promo material pointed to Yuya joining the protagonist side. Given this new alignment with the government and a general agreement to be discrete in world-breaking matters, I dunno how easily they’re going to convince him to play along. XD

    • May 7, 2017 at 1:39 amzztop

      Hiroe said he wanted to go against the cliche of government being incompetent and stupid in crisis-themed fiction.

      • May 7, 2017 at 8:32 amhaseo0408

        Nicely played if you ask me, if Meteora is on the money about how the world will start falling apart the goverment is indeed needed for the cover ups as she said my guess is that it is only temporary, if total open starts between the two factions the following destruction will be impossible to cover up, just look at the mayhem Mamika created with her battle with Selesia! Thow that giant freaking mecha and you have an apocalypse in your hands!.

    • May 7, 2017 at 11:39 amRedRocket

      Well the government is often very competent at things we only notice when they blow it normally.

    • May 7, 2017 at 10:51 pmPancakes

      Governments in real life are pretty functional all things considered, the key is knowing that all governments are not monolithic entities, they are heterogeneous with numerous competing groups all fighting over the same batch of resources. Good example is the infighting the FBI, CIA, and NSA get into over jurisdiction and funding. Having an efficient and competent Japanese federal agency thus isn’t all that surprising, but it’s definitely different for a fictional story. Incompetency, corruption, and failure is more interesting from a storyteller perspective after all :P

  • May 7, 2017 at 1:38 amGinobi47

    Prediction:

    http://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2005%20-%20Large%2036.jpg

    Loser-kun wrote a story

    http://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2005%20-%20Large%2030.jpg

    Suicide Girl loved the story and drew/animated it.

    http://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2005%20-%20Large%2035.jpg

    Military Uniform Princess is the creation of Loser-Kun and Suicide Girl (Setsuna I think)

    • May 7, 2017 at 6:24 amMistic

      Isn’t the MC an artist rather than a writer, though? Perhaps it’s the opposite: she wrote the story and he made the drawings. In any case, how could he not remember until now?

      • May 7, 2017 at 6:37 amGinobi47

        I stick with my own prediction for a couple of reasons:

        First, if he truly was the artist that drew Military Uniform Girl, there’s no way he’d forget a character he designed himself…. unless the writers of this story really sucks and use the ‘NOW I FINALLY REMEMBER’ card.

        And while we do see him opening a drawing app which gives him being an artist more credit, the past episodes seems to have given me the impression that Loser-Kun desired to create a story. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd episode where Loser-kun stated that he wanted to make a story (hence writer)

      • May 7, 2017 at 6:42 amGinobi47

        Oh, I forgot to add.

        I think Loser-kun had absolutely no idea how Suicide Girl designed Military Uniform Princess.

        At the very end of this episode, there were small guidelines on how Military Uniform Princess should look like along side the title of his draft/work. I think he requested Suicide Girl to draw Military Uniform Princess but never saw the end result because of REASONS!

      • May 7, 2017 at 11:41 amRedRocket

        He is not the main character.

      • May 7, 2017 at 12:41 pmqwert

        But Loser also doesn’t think he’s very good at illustrating right? Maybe he started off as an author and was the one who wrote the story while Suicide Girl was the illustrator.

        In all the flashbacks at the end of the episode what if HE was the one talking all suicidal like about their “last story” and she was the one anxiously/nervously asking if they could draw it. They start working together and he starts having a more positive view on life while perhaps she starts getting trolled for her art or something and gets pushed to suicide. Loser feels so guilty that it was his story that put her in the spotlight that he gives up writing, forgets his old story and picks up her dream of drawing.

        But in between then and now their work continued spreading online similar to something like Black Rock Shooter where people started writing their own stories and drawing their own fan art of Gunpuku to the point where she and her world materialized as part of the collective unconscious.

      • May 7, 2017 at 11:04 pmPancakes

        I think Souta’s the artist here, I doubt he actually wrote the story. Setsuna came up with the concept and Souta–liking it so much–drew some concept art (i.e. the non-uniformed Altair). The story seems to have gone through several revisions though, as Altair morphed into Gunpuku and Souta had to search through several pages just to find the video.

        Souta can clearly draw–remember the cat girl in episode two–but he has an artist block at the moment, which very likely stems from the suicide. Furthermore Gunpuku/Altair specifically identifies Setsuna as her creator, which to me implies responsibility for personality and story; Souta’s role is secondary and was not critical enough to be tied to creator status. I think concept art or vague character/story ideas slot nicely into that basis.

      • May 9, 2017 at 4:24 pmJuan

        Makes sense. It probably evolves further along the lines of Altier blaming him for Setsuna killing herself. Possibly they co created her as some kind of activity and might even have had a thing going on but for some reason or another they stopped or were critisized leading to her depression and suicide while he blocked it out like some kind of trauma.

  • May 7, 2017 at 4:46 amDevastator001

    Now am interested in how Souta will handle the sudden realization that he’s partially Gunpuku/Altair’s creator, I personally don’t mind the info dumps as much as the parts still give me a chuckle and world building is fine as long no sudden wtf plot holes emerges.

    • May 7, 2017 at 11:05 pmPancakes

      Guaranteed he keeps it hidden for an episode or three as he works through the realization, fear, and dread, because character development :P

  • May 7, 2017 at 4:54 amAnon

    One character still needs to be introduced. So there will probably be no actions till 7 or 8th episode.

  • May 7, 2017 at 6:41 amMistic

    Too much Meteora (as always), Selesia is the best (as always), interesting addition of Not!Shinji and too little Military Uniform Princess, I mean, Altair, but the reveal at the end made up for it.

    I must admit, even if the reveal could be foreseen since before the series started, I’m actually surprised that they chose to throw the bomb so soon. Given the slow pace, the infodumps and the fact that this is going to be a longer series, I expected that they would reserve it for the future.

    This gives me hope that the plot may not be as straightforward in the end as it seems. When the writers are using one of their strongest narrative cards now (the mystery of Gunpuku), it must mean they have other cards prepared for the future (please make Meteora the Big Bad).

    • May 7, 2017 at 8:02 amzztop

      Exactly, most 2-cours I’ve seen would only show the identity and endgame of the big boss for the very end of the series. The only drawback of this method is that the middle half of the series feels like they’re just padding things out until the writers can drop the reveal for Episode 20-something.

    • May 7, 2017 at 11:09 pmPancakes

      Oh yes there’s something else missing here. I don’t think Meteora is a contender for the true bad of the show just yet, but Gunpuku/Altair definitely isn’t it, she’s only a stepping stone. Or at least I hope so, god I’d be disappointed if this show is straightforward lol.

  • May 7, 2017 at 7:54 amzztop

    Celestia discovers ero-doujins of herself:
    https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=62778749

    I’ve learned Japanese doujin artists can sexualize ANYTHING – nothing is sacred!!

    • May 7, 2017 at 8:36 amhaseo0408

      That was priceless! And considering hwo famous and popular her anime and light novel are there must a ton more of those. Poor celestia, you have seen nothing!.

    • May 8, 2017 at 1:22 amVelvet Scarlantina

      I really want to see them going to Comiket or walk along Akiba

  • May 7, 2017 at 8:38 amzztop

    The next question is how Gunpuku even came into the real world to begin with – a starting catalyst is at play here. Something else must’ve happened that allowed her to escape her plane of existence.

  • May 7, 2017 at 9:44 amAnon2

    What I mean was Metora’s role and actions in the story would likely be a lot more different without that book giving her knowledge. She won’t adapt to this world that fast. I like her character but not her current role in the story.

    Like I said this was more of a contingency plan. There is also a very good chance that some government officials are thinking many things, just not saying it in front of them. They could even have started another meeting as soon as the group left. (Now the government is here, there would be scenes of scientists trying to make sense of NotDemonbane hopefully.) TBH I too would be disappointed if Metora’s hypothesis was completely right. It’s more likely she was only half right or there will be some twists in Hime’s goal.

    • May 7, 2017 at 9:47 amAnon2

      Shit this was a reply for Mistic.

      Sorry rather new to this blog.

      • May 7, 2017 at 10:43 amMistic

        Don’t worry, I saw it. Truly, Random Curiosity is a great place to discuss current anime, but the site desperately needs a way for visitors to erase and edit their comments.

        As for Meteora, I hope for the same. But so far, the series hasn’t given me reason to believe there will be more nuance to that. Still, there are still many episodes in the future. And a verbal confrontation with Gunpuku may provide alternative takes on Meteora’s theories.

  • May 7, 2017 at 11:46 ampaulrenzo

    I have to admit, I was half-expecting Itami and co to be part of that JGDF group, even if I know that an actual property will not crossover to Re:Creator.

  • May 7, 2017 at 12:20 pmRedRocket

    Interesting end and wonder about the dead person at a funeral picture of Military Princess not in uniform first. Is Military Princess also a real person who died?
    Metora’s theory on changes being accepted and characters selected to come to this world based on popularity seams broken with the Military Princess.

    So action to break up Metora’s exposition might have been better but then their would be complaints of stringing out the mystery and the fights stoping the plot from moving forward.

    I am very glad at the government . One of the major flaws of many stories is the lack of government response or only stupid government response. The lack of government involvement is one of the greatest flaws of the Fate series especially after Fate/Zero.
    It is ok for secret underground cells to be only partially known about by a government depending on how much off the grid the group is. But in the modern day governments not knowing or taking other actions against dangerous groups is stupid. Yes a 9/11 can happen but it not like the Government did not know the enemy group existed and the government even had the pieces to put together to stop it but like many things intelligence based their is just to much information and so often action fails do the problems putting all the facts together fast enough and the amount of priority government leaders put into it.

  • May 7, 2017 at 1:42 pmZen

    Plaguing previous episodes (much to the consternation of many members of the audience such as myself) were long, dry expository lectures by Meteora concerning the intricacies of Re:Creators’ world. And yet after ostensibly apologizing about it, instead of correcting course, Re:Creators’ writer(s) decided to double down on the dry exposition this week- with a lengthy Power Point presentation comprised of, among other inane things, obtuse prop-graphs and grainy video clips of previous events, and by having Professor (*ahem,* excuse my sarcasm) Meteora step up her (dull and tedious) game by lecturing the Japanese Government. I suppose, perhaps, the writer(s) are of the (wrongful) opinion that the physical intricacies of Re:Creators’ world are too complex for any meaningful first-order illustrative depiction, given Meteora’s line where she said something like “Once you start to see cracks, it’s all over for the world”- essentially waving away the need for any actual, first-order illustrative depictions of reality imploding, past or future.

    This opinion (assuming they actually think this) is naught more than arrogant, self-deceptive, self-justifying poppycock, dreamt up by a cadre of writers too incompetent to come up with compelling, first-order illustrative ways of presenting Re:Creators’ world to the audience, to preserve their (delusional) sense of self-worth. The setting’s urban Tokyo, right? Have the electrical grid, (or even all electrical implements in the general vicinity) go haywire incrementally depending on the number of fictional characters activating their powers in the general area- flashing traffic signals and window lights, and vehicle/fire alarms randomly going off, all demonstrating the distortion of the world’s physical rules. And/Or have space temporarily contort whenever a character initiates a high-speed travel/flight ability- if Altair kicks off from a playground swing, have the swing get crushed to smithereens with a sickly *crunch* by a temporary spatial distortion left in her wake. And you could even change things depending on the type of traversal ability- some might cause nearby objects to temporarily levitate rather than contort space. Hell, give each character’s powers unique, unintended distortion-related effects not contemplated by their creators, and show these effects interacting with dangerous, deleterious consequences. The list of possibilities is endless. Clearly, it isn’t at all difficult to come up with creative first-order methods to illustratively depict the physical rules of a world collapsing, even if one insists on not taking the obvious “cracks in reality” route. And even if there is no self-deception going on, the writer(s)’ abject incompetence is plainly evident.

    Re:Creators’ heavily didactic approach to world-building is simply objectively inferior to more illustrative/demonstrative methods for two major reasons- because it is not immersive, and because it’s just plain boring. The boring part goes without saying, I think, and has been discussed ad nauseum by others above. I’m skipping class to watch this show and be entertained, right? If I actually wanted to listen to a lecture, I’d, you know, actually go to class. As for the issue of weak immersiveness, the burden of selling the nature and reality of a fictional world to the audience always rests upon the shoulders of the writer(s), and it is a heavy one. World-building through long, didactic lectures is no way to get the audience to accept the reality of your world and to be immersed in it, nor to foster emotional investment and interest. We humans qualitatively experience the “reality” of our world through our five (or more) senses. The perception of “reality” is defined by simultaneous, first-order experiential input coming from several senses at a time, and all senses in successive temporal conjunction. If you drugged me and had me wake up in a special room where my senses of touch and hearing didn’t work, I would likely doubt the reality of my situation; I’d probably think I was dreaming.

    And so in order to truly immerse the audience in a fictional world’s “reality” a writer must depict his/her made-up world in a manner where the audience is able to experience it through various senses firsthand, whether directly (possible only in audio/visual mediums; through sound effects, visual cues, etc.), or indirectly through illustrative scenarios where a place/event is described in terms of sight, sound, touch, etc.- often in the form of attempts to allow the audience to vicariously experience the world through the characters’ senses (more applicable to purely written mediums). The audience must be presented with a simultaneous battery of first order sensory experiences, directly or indirectly, in order to create a complete illusion of “reality,” roughly coherent with how reality is actually perceived.

    Meteora’s long, dry didactic lectures, unsupported by any first-order experiential illustrative prior narrative foundation, utterly fail at creating an adequate illusion of “reality.” They make me feel like I’m a half-deaf person in a special room where I’m deprived of all senses except hearing, as far as Re:Creators’ world is concerned. Sure, you say that all these things are true about your fictional world, but there’s nothing to support this “reality” besides your words- and they’re just words at that, not first-order aural experiences (hence the half-deafness). More to the point, you haven’t presented me with any first-order sensory experiences illustrating these critical world-building elements that you’re trying to sell to me, direct or indirect. And so these important elements do not feel “real” in the least, they simply cannot, as the criteria for creating a complete illusion of reality have not been met. The same applies to your world, of which these elements are central components; it feels pallid and translucent.

    So Hiroe Rei helms the writing team, I heard? An action writer, helming the writing team for a highly technical piece (from a narrative-mechanical standpoint)? Why not have Michael Bay write Inception? Therein lies the crux of our problem. Sigh, the anime industry has a real problem with wrongfully equating niche talent to omni-competence- same deal with that one Little Witch Academia episode a while ago, storyboarded by that insufferable Imaishi fellow. Re:Creators’ world-building is simply atrocious, no other way to put it. And Meteora isn’t even a real character, she’s an expressionless, contrived, lazy, one-size-fits-all narrative Swiss Army Knife meant to hand wave away the need for any substantive, first-order illustrative world-building. Tentatively dropped (and that’s saying something, as I haven’t willfully dropped a show in years); call me when the action starts, I bet that’ll actually be well-choreographed and enjoyable, given the true, tested scope of Hiroe Rei’s talents and the seemingly (inexplicably) high budget this show has. At that point, I’ll finally be able to turn off my brain and enjoy the fighting, while pretending that all this shoddy writing never happened…

  • May 7, 2017 at 4:24 pmMistic

    The setting’s urban Tokyo, right? Have the electrical grid, (or even all electrical implements in the general vicinity) go haywire incrementally depending on the number of fictional characters activating their powers in the general area- flashing traffic signals and window lights, and vehicle/fire alarms randomly going off, all demonstrating the distortion of the world’s physical rules. And/Or have space temporarily contort whenever a character initiates a high-speed travel/flight ability

    Very good ideas. Such an approach would have done wonders for the story in the same timeframe. There’ve been some fights; had those effects happened, it would have given us:

    a) visual evidence for viewers to start guessing and look forward to an explanation
    b) a cue for Meteora to start theorizing the end of the world without sounding like an ass-pull
    c) a sense of urgency and unpredictability in every upcoming battle

    Nothing of that has happened so far, so I don’t have any reason to believe Meteora beyond the nagging feeling that the writers want me to believe her. That’s why I want Meteora to be a villain: the lack of evidence wouldn’t be gratuituous then, but foreshadowing that she was lying in order to manipulate the rest. But I’m pretty sure that’s not the case here. Sigh.

    Still… Hey, in this episode she basically confessed she stole from the government and wasted millions of taxpayer’s money to show Altair who was boss. The signs of a criminal mastermind XD

    • May 7, 2017 at 5:00 pmZen

      Nothing of that has happened so far, so I don’t have any reason to believe Meteora beyond the nagging feeling that the writers want me to believe her.

      But she’s Deus Ex Meteora, right? As someone put it above. She is basically God, so everything she says is (literally) the gospel truth, and we should buy into it wholesale, even without any in-universe physical evidence. There’s a reason why contrived, overly convenient plot techniques such as Deus Ex Machina and the omniscient didact are usually looked upon with great scorn by critics such as myself. It’s because they make everything seem so artificial and uncanny. Stories are supposed to create an illusion of reality, immersing the audience in fantastical worlds. Yet lazy, contrived narrative devices such as these destroy immersion by running counter to the organic epistemological pathways through which humans perceive, and more importantly “feel” – “reality.”

      With all that aside, thanks for the compliment- I read a lot of the stuff you wrote above, and you made some excellent points too…;)

      • May 7, 2017 at 5:37 pmMistic

        Indeed, Deus Ex Meteora is a name that fits her role in the story. She’s the Athena that descends upon the mortals to give knowledge for the sake of the plot.

        I miss old Meteora. Yes, I said “old Meteora”. Remember the first episodes, when she seemed the absent-minded deadpan scholar, theorizing and experimenting? She made a theory about authors being able to influence their creations, everyone helped to try it… and it was a failure. A hilarious failure (poor Selesia and her cool pose). It made Meteora fallible, it suggested that not all lengthy theories may be true and other characters were an active part of it.

        That was an important role, but a limited one that wasn’t beyond failure or criticism. However, current Meteora is everything the writers want her to be: oracle, leader, negotiator, politician… She’s not leaving room for the other characters. Will they be limited to battle roles?

        With all that aside, thanks for the compliment- I read a lot of the stuff you wrote above, and you made some excellent points too…;)

        You too. Honestly, when I saw that wall of text of yours earlier I thought “not sure if I’m going to have the energy to read all of it”, but it was so well written I had to finish it in one go ;)

  • May 7, 2017 at 6:16 pmZen

    However, current Meteora is everything the writers want her to be: oracle, leader, negotiator, politician… She’s not leaving room for the other characters.

    And that’s such a shame, because other characters like Selesia are perfectly suited to fill many of these roles. Selesia is an extremely charismatic and self-assured individual, who’s also some kind of well-educated princess, or something- she’d more likely than not thrive as a leader, a negotiator or a politician…but she’s none of these things, because Meteora is the “creator’s pet” (as you put it above) hogging the limelight…

    • May 7, 2017 at 9:24 pmDevastator001

      But if You consider it, she the least hot-blooded/headed of the group. SO it make sense that she be the lead negotiator as the rest are likely to bust out their swords and weapons when irritated.

    • May 7, 2017 at 11:14 pmPancakes

      We need to see what happens now before criticizing IMO. It’s just as likely Meteora–having done the exposition–falls by the wayside as Celestia (and others) take over the action role of the show. No guarantee of course, but we need more material before making a call.

      • May 8, 2017 at 3:55 amMistic

        I disagree. We are in episode 5 right now, not episode 2 or 3. The pitfalls of overexposition and Meteora’s role in it had been pointed out by viewers in previous episodes. We already waited to see what happened and the criticism was validated. The onus is now on the creators of the series.

        Even if from now on Re:Creators corrects all of that, it won’t change the fact that these first episodes are a text book example of how not to do exposition and how not to use a creator’s mouthpiece… barring a sudden twist that forces us to see it in a completely different light, like my “Meteora was evil all along” semi-joke.

    • May 8, 2017 at 3:11 amOby

      I agree with Pancakes. We need to see what happens later before judging.

      So far, Meteora’s theory about world destruction by the mere existence of fictional characters is still just that: a theory. The audience and the characters didn’t experience all the supposed “distortion/cracks of the world” like power grid going haywire, alarms going off, blackouts, etc because it’s still a theory by Meteora. She can still be wrong (but the Japanese government can’t be too careful about it).

      Contrary to what many complainers believed, I think this story needs all the explanation it got so far. I mean, how can Meteora & co understand Yuya’s character and state of mind if they didn’t have a nice good conversation with him? How can Selesia & co know Meteora’s true feelings after the bomb dropped on Meteora about her creator’s death if she didn’t talk to them and explain things? And don’t forget, our protagonist group need all these info as fast as possible as proven Meteora’s quick-to-the-point actions. Once they found a way to contact Selesia’s creators, Meteora immediately asked Souta to make an appointment to meet him. They met Yuya on the way and since he is willing to talk, Meteora & co squeezed as much info from him as possible. Then they immediately do some experiment with the creators to prove whether or not they have powers over the materialized characters. Then Meteora in her supposed time-out played her own game to dig deeper to know what her creator is all about. She talked about the result to Selesia & co. See, they jumped at the first chance they get for new info. Now how can you convey all that using “illustrative scenarios where a place/event is described in terms of sight, sound, touch,”? This is not an easy story to tell like Flying Witch or Grimgar where the characters can just take their time for us, the audience, to be immersed with their worlds while at the same time moving the (slow but good) story forward. Even award-winning movie like Inception needs some long explanatory scenes and many of them are without visual aid. Also, this Re: Creator takes place mostly in our world. We already know how it works. There’s nothing much to be immersed with. The characters need some explanations, they need it fast and they look for it with some time to rest and do fun things in between when they have nothing better to do. The writer opted not to highlight the whimsy too much to keep the pace and the urgent atmosphere, and I like that. It reminded me of Shin Godzilla.

      • May 8, 2017 at 4:38 amMistic

        All in all, I don’t think the amount of exposition is the problem but, as Zen has lept saying for a while, the way they do it and Meteora’s role in it. To give a simple example, count how many times the name “Meteora” appears in your brief summary of the series’ exposition. You could make a drinking game out of it XD

        Meteora’s theory, however, is a more serious case for the plot and the moral of the story.

        What we saw, and what motivates Alicetaria and gave cue to the experiment with Selesia’s creator, was Gunpuku promising that changing the Creators’ world would change the fictional worlds for the better. The logic is easy for everyone to see: if Creators can create worlds, they should be able to change them. But suddenly and without any kind of previous evidence, Meteora is able to theorize that Gunpuku is about to bring the end of the world. That is jarring and it seems to exist only to give the heroes a more pressing goal from the get-go.

    • May 8, 2017 at 8:04 amOby

      @Mistic

      All in all, I don’t think the amount of exposition is the problem but, as Zen has lept saying for a while, the way they do it and Meteora’s role in it. To give a simple example, count how many times the name “Meteora” appears in your brief summary of the series’ exposition. You could make a drinking game out of it XD

      What’s wrong with Meteora driving the story forward? As one of the summoned creations, she has the reason and drive to seek more answers compared to Souta & other IRL characters. And her curiosity, intelligence and resources are arguably higher than Selesia’s. She definitely has more street-smart. She’s also one of the protags (especially considering Souta has relegated himself as the ‘narrator’). Her intelligence is needed for the current plot (and maybe future plot too). That’s just how it is. I mean, if Meteora can convince the government to work together, why would anyone from her group interfere? If the writer wants her character to be important then why not? It’s not necessarily a bad thing.

      And what’s wrong with the expository portions? Most of them happened because one or more characters were asking questions and demanding some answers & explanations, so the other party merely explains. And all of those conversation are very relevant to their current situations. If you want an example of bad expositions, look no further than Heavy Object where characters just insert obscure details outta nowhere (that will be important later but not when the conversation takes place) in their conversations that makes the whole anime looks like a bad parody. Sadly, it’s not a parody.

      The logic is easy for everyone to see: if Creators can create worlds, they should be able to change them. But suddenly and without any kind of previous evidence, Meteora is able to theorize that Gunpuku is about to bring the end of the world. That is jarring and it seems to exist only to give the heroes a more pressing goal from the get-go

      Except now Meteora knows that it’s not that easy to change the fictional worlds. Also, are you kidding me? Bringing apocalypse (or world’s end) is like one of the most standard goals of anime/manga/novel/game boss villains who has the power to do it and filled with grudges (aside from the usual world domination). I don’t even need a deductive skill to come with a theory that MUP wants to mess with and destroy IRL world. But that’s all it is: a theory (for now). Just like Meteora’s case, it’s still need to be proven whether or not she’s right about the creations bringing distortions to the world by merely existing which will lead to world’s destruction.

      • May 8, 2017 at 11:51 amRandomAnon

        What’s wrong with Meteora driving the story forward? As one of the summoned creations, she has the reason and drive to seek more answers compared to Souta & other IRL characters.

        Because her expositions are not needed. Imagine this story without Meteora. The story will move forward. Even if she appears in later episodes, they will be still doing what they are supposed to do.

        They will still find Celestia’s creator, see Marine, battle magical girl, meet Yuuya, go to Rui, and get caught by the military. Even without her info dump, they will be able to survive and move the plot. The story might even become more interesting since they will be seeking and encountering answers on their own instead of relying to Google aka Meteora.

        Celestia’s intelligence isn’t at par with Meteora, but she can think and move the plot forward:
        http://i.imgur.com/o0aRyMP.png

        Unlike this guy:
        http://i.imgur.com/iFQQnLw.jpg

        She’s also one of the protags (especially considering Souta has relegated himself as the ‘narrator’). Her intelligence is needed for the current plot (and maybe future plot too). That’s just how it is. I mean, if Meteora can convince the government to work together, why would anyone from her group interfere? If the writer wants her character to be important then why not? It’s not necessarily a bad thing.

        Her intelligence isn’t needed for the plot — as demonstrated above. Meteora isn’t exactly convincing anybody in the government. Even if she wasn’t there in the government meeting, the same thing will happen. They will be put under protection, and even if the government know or do not know about MUP’s Grand Destruction plan, it will still pursue that character.

        Well, putting her as the main character isn’t a bad thing when they’ve thought about it before producing this anime. But it has become a bad thing since some viewers don’t like it to the point that its creator apologized.

        And what’s wrong with the expository portions? Most of them happened because one or more characters were asking questions and demanding some answers & explanations, so the other party merely explains. And all of those conversation are very relevant to their current situations.

        Too much of something can be bad. Things that are relevant can be subjective and their relevancy depend on the current perspective. True, the information that Meteora gives out to her group is relevant. But is it relevant to us? Most people have already predicted or already seen the context of her exposition in her first few sentences, do we need more? If we already know what the exposition will bring to us, are her next few sentences relevant to us? No.

        Bringing apocalypse (or world’s end) is like one of the most standard goals of anime/manga/novel/game boss villains who has the power to do it and filled with grudges (aside from the usual world domination). I don’t even need a deductive skill to come with a theory that MUP wants to mess with and destroy IRL world.

        So, do the group even need Meteora for them to know about the plans of this boss villain? They got an otaku there — even writers themselves.

      • May 8, 2017 at 6:47 pmOby

        @RandomAnon

        Because her expositions are not needed. Imagine this story without Meteora. The story will move forward. Even if she appears in later episodes, they will be still doing what they are supposed to do.

        They will still find Celestia’s creator, see Marine, battle magical girl, meet Yuuya, go to Rui, and get caught by the military. Even without her info dump, they will be able to survive and move the plot. The story might even become more interesting since they will be seeking and encountering answers on their own instead of relying to Google aka Meteora.

        Celestia’s intelligence isn’t at par with Meteora, but she can think and move the plot forward:
        http://i.imgur.com/o0aRyMP.png

        Unlike this guy:
        http://i.imgur.com/iFQQnLw.jpg

        This series without Meteora? Sure, the plot will still move forward but at a (much) slower pace. It will take more time for Selesia to be willing to meet her creator since Souta is pretty much low on initiative. In fact, have we seen a single event that happened due to Souta’s initiative? Rui & his Gigas Machina will still be at odds with the JSDF for some time and will cause so much more trouble for everyone (not mentioning massive collateral damage). So, no, Meteora’s intelligence, cool head and explanations are indeed needed for the situation, unless you just want to see a lot of battles and explosions caused by misunderstandings.

        You know, many people complains that many anime conflicts rest on misunderstanding and miscommunication. But now that we have a character capable of killing unnecessary misunderstandings so the the ‘heroes’ can focus on the bigger issue, they’re still complaining. There’s really no pleasing anime-fans. Speaking of anime-fans, it seems this episode is well received by the Japanese-fans.

        Her intelligence isn’t needed for the plot — as demonstrated above. Meteora isn’t exactly convincing anybody in the government. Even if she wasn’t there in the government meeting, the same thing will happen. They will be put under protection, and even if the government know or do not know about MUP’s Grand Destruction plan, it will still pursue that character.

        Well, putting her as the main character isn’t a bad thing when they’ve thought about it before producing this anime. But it has become a bad thing since some viewers don’t like it to the point that its creator apologized.

        If Meteora wasn’t there, the JSDF would still be battling a giant robot for probably the entire episode. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like battles caused by stupid reasons. That’s why I hate Tony & Rhodey’s brawl in Iron-Man 2. Re: Creators spared me of that and I’m super grateful for it. Meteora has saved both parties from causing massive destruction and giving very bad impression to the public. Without Meteora, the meeting won’t go as smooth as it is. Heck, one can argue that there won’t be a meeting between the SSCC and the fictional characters.

        Too much of something can be bad. Things that are relevant can be subjective and their relevancy depend on the current perspective. True, the information that Meteora gives out to her group is relevant. But is it relevant to us? Most people have already predicted or already seen the context of her exposition in her first few sentences, do we need more? If we already know what the exposition will bring to us, are her next few sentences relevant to us? No.

        In this episode, Meteora’s explanation is not so much used to provide us with new info, but mostly to show us how she convinces the SSCC and the members’ reaction & impression towards her. It helps that she talks nothing but facts and relevant theories & hypothesis with not much fluff and all of them delivered with confidence and no stutter or any other issues. That’s exactly what the boards want to hear: a good and knowledgeable speaker that can represent the fictional people.

        So, do the group even need Meteora for them to know about the plans of this boss villain? They got an otaku there — even writers themselves.

        Anyone can come up with out-there theories, but not everyone has the skill to sell it in front of a board filled with bigwigs of the country’s various organizations (there might even be generals in there). You can’t screw up in front of them. In this case, Meteora’s nonchalant and confident way of speaking (as expected from a scholar NPC) gave her a significant boost compared to other members of her team. The fact that she’s one of the fictional people with powers gave a much needed importance and gravity to what she’s saying compared to the rumblings of an otaku or writers who have no prior battle experiences with MUP.

      • May 8, 2017 at 8:29 pmRandomAnon

        This series without Meteora? Sure, the plot will still move forward but at a (much) slower pace. It will take more time for Selesia to be willing to meet her creator since Souta is pretty much low on initiative. In fact, have we seen a single event that happened due to Souta’s initiative? Rui & his Gigas Machina will still be at odds with the JSDF for some time and will cause so much more trouble for everyone (not mentioning massive collateral damage). So, no, Meteora’s intelligence, cool head and explanations are indeed needed for the situation, unless you just want to see a lot of battles and explosions caused by misunderstandings.

        So, you think that the current pacing is fast? As far as I know, info dumps are the number one cause of slow pacing. It can also ruin it, too. Sitting on a couch having nonstop lecture seems changed the standards of anime or story telling pacing in general.

        And why do you think Souta needs to be the one to take the initiative? Celestia can take that role. If you have not seen it, Celestia is capable.

        As shown in the episode, Rui is a reasonable guy that listens. You can’t possibly tell me that only Meteora, the ever charismatic one, can command a rampaging Rui?

        The military is smart and has directives to only capture people. The group is outnumbered, and there are three civilians that can be used as hostages. As a matter of fact, they are already hostages once the battle started due to the military having decent equipment that can allow them to obliterate the defenseless group.

        Would Celestia let the military just kill Souta and her creator? We already know that Celestia isn’t that omnipotent. It has been demonstrated multiple times during her battles with the magical girl and MUP. She got a sword and a bit of magic. The military has numbers and guns – lots of guns.

        Will Rui just go on a rampage? Will he let the other people die? Will the civilians stay quiet and not even try to negotiate or reason with their aggressors? Rui, as a person, who wants a peaceful world, he is very amenable to preventing battles — hence, he immediately stops when Meteora said stop.

        That’s the problem with having too much focus on Meteora. We can’t even see and know how the others would react in case of situations like that because she does everything. It’s a one man show and causes other characters to appear brain dead and white noise.

        If there will be casualties, it will be on the military side, but does it really matter to the story? It will have slight complications, but in the end, the story will move forward. Meteora’s mediation on that scene was just too lackluster and too convenient.

        Again, I will reiterate that due to the show’s continuous focus on Meteora and elevation to God like status, you have already considered all the characters involved will be helpless and inutile if Deus Ex Meteora disappears in the story.

        You know, many people complains that many anime conflicts rest on misunderstanding and miscommunication. But now that we have a character capable of killing unnecessary misunderstandings so the the ‘heroes’ can focus on the bigger issue, they’re still complaining. There’s really no pleasing anime-fans. Speaking of anime-fans, it seems this episode is well received by the Japanese-fans.

        I don’t know about those many people, but for me, it is commonality that conflicts due arise to miscommunication and misunderstanding — whether in real life or fiction. I would like to cite Berserk as a good example.

        About characters capable of erasing unnecessary misunderstandings, I think it is pointless. By your word, these misunderstandings are unnecessary, so the fault is in the writer. If he deemed that the misunderstandings are not necessary to the plot, why put it there in the first place? Just to let Meteora magically erase them and make her best girl? I don’t really see that point.

        Well received by Japanese fans? I have no time to research about that, but from what I hear from people, the Japanese fans have already complained about the same most people here are complaining about. I think a few people discussed it on the previous review. Tried to accessing the link to the Twit Rei Hiroe posted to clarify if he really did an apology to the Japanese audience.

        If Meteora wasn’t there, the JSDF would still be battling a giant robot for probably the entire episode. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like battles caused by stupid reasons. That’s why I hate Tony & Rhodey’s brawl in Iron-Man 2. Re: Creators spared me of that and I’m super grateful for it. Meteora has saved both parties from causing massive destruction and giving very bad impression to the public. Without Meteora, the meeting won’t go as smooth as it is. Heck, one can argue that there won’t be a meeting between the SSCC and the fictional characters.

        Well, I don’t see the reason why the military-fighting-a-sudden-appearance-of-a-giant-mecha-that-has-chock-full-of-offensive-weapons stupid. If that happens, then it is going with the right flow. As demonstrated in the episode, the government and military ain’t that stupid in that show.

        Surely enough, if things get worse, there will be a backup plan to resolve such conflicts sans Meteora intervention. The meeting will still happen. If it doesn’t, I will welcome the development instead of a story full of conflicts being resolved through couch conversations. If Re:Creators will be like that in the first place, it should have targeted the book reading audience.

        In this episode, Meteora’s explanation is not so much used to provide us with new info, but mostly to show us how she convinces the SSCC and the members’ reaction & impression towards her. It helps that she talks nothing but facts and relevant theories & hypothesis with not much fluff and all of them delivered with confidence and no stutter or any other issues. That’s exactly what the boards want to hear: a good and knowledgeable speaker that can represent the fictional people.

        Prolonging the conversation about the stolen weapons not fluff? The boards want to hear? That’s exactly the problem. All words coming out from her mouth are considered gold that everyone would and should accept in that anime. I don’t see the confidence and no stutter part relevant.

        If the meeting did happen with her absence, we would actually see a meeting — not a conversation between two people with obligatory random lines from the poor saps relegated as background.

        Anyone can come up with out-there theories, but not everyone has the skill to sell it in front of a board filled with bigwigs of the country’s various organizations (there might even be generals in there). You can’t screw up in front of them. In this case, Meteora’s nonchalant and confident way of speaking (as expected from a scholar NPC) gave her a significant boost compared to other members of her team. The fact that she’s one of the fictional people with powers gave a much needed importance and gravity to what she’s saying compared to the rumblings of an otaku or writers who have no prior battle experiences with MUP.

        Sure. Skills. As far as I know regarding Celestia, she is a princess in her world and has a strong moral compass. I’m sure with those basic tropes, she is more than capable enough to start a shouting match on that meeting just to make sure that she gets her ideas across.

        On the other hand, I’m not really sure why the people on that meeting would not consider listening to the group if there is no Meteora. I’m sure that the actual point of the meeting is to get to talk to them and retrieve information.

        Anyway, this is what I expected and this proves my point. The abnormal amount of focus given to Meteora makes lots of people think that she is the most crucial character in the story and the others are just decorations. Even if the other characters can actually do most of the things she did to advance the plot, she is left alone to do all of that — to the point that you can replace almost every character with a paper doll and no one would notice.

        http://i.imgur.com/iFQQnLw.jpg

      • May 8, 2017 at 9:51 pmOby

        @RandomAnon

        So, you think that the current pacing is fast? As far as I know, info dumps are the number one cause of slow pacing. It can also ruin it, too. Sitting on a couch having nonstop lecture seems changed the standards of anime or story telling pacing in general.

        We see characters having important & relevant conversations. These conversations moved the story forward more than any of the fights so far.

        And why do you think Souta needs to be the one to take the initiative? Celestia can take that role. If you have not seen it, Celestia is capable.

        Selesia? She’s the one who has a bit of reservation in meeting her creator. Without Meteora’s push, god knows how much longer it takes for both Selesia & Souta to meet him.

        Well, I don’t see the reason why the military-fighting-a-sudden-appearance-of-a-giant-mecha-that-has-chock-full-of-offensive-weapons stupid. If that happens, then it is going with the right flow. As demonstrated in the episode, the government and military ain’t that stupid in that show.

        Hah. Even the military commander apologized for their “warm welcome” which was resulted from them being nervous about the giant robot. Their aggression is understandable but even they admitted that they could try a more civilized way to introduce themselves. The amount of action of “JSDF vs. Gigas Machina” in this episode is just right. Any longer and it will drag the story just like Tony & Rhodey’s pointless “Iron-brawl” in Iron-Man 2.

        Prolonging the conversation about the stolen weapons not fluff?

        Huh? Didn’t you watched the episode? The one who brought up and keep going on about the stolen weapon is the SSCC lady. Meteora was just there trying to apologize for it. Did you hate Meteora so much that you didn’t notice it? :p

        As shown in the episode, Rui is a reasonable guy that listens. You can’t possibly tell me that only Meteora, the ever charismatic one, can command a rampaging Rui?
        The military is smart and has directives to only capture people. The group is outnumbered, and there are three civilians that can be used as hostages. As a matter of fact, they are already hostages once the battle started due to the military having decent equipment that can allow them to obliterate the defenseless group.
        Would Celestia let the military just kill Souta and her creator? We already know that Celestia isn’t that omnipotent. It has been demonstrated multiple times during her battles with the magical girl and MUP. She got a sword and a bit of magic. The military has numbers and guns – lots of guns.
        Will Rui just go on a rampage? Will he let the other people die? Will the civilians stay quiet and not even try to negotiate or reason with their aggressors? Rui, as a person, who wants a peaceful world, he is very amenable to preventing battles — hence, he immediately stops when Meteora said stop.

        Watch this episode again and see what Rui and Selesia were doing during the JSDF ambush: they kept fighting without any apparent intention to stop any time soon. Sure, even without Meteora, they will stop eventually, but at what cost? What amount of damage it would take before both groups stop and talk?

        As for the rest of your points (which will be too long to quote): it basically goes back to your dislike of having Meteora around and you built your argument based on a “what if” scenario if Meteora doesn’t exist. Anyone can come up with a “what if” scenario and make an endless argument on that shaky ground, but it would be a huge waste of time. So I’ll just spare myself.

      • May 8, 2017 at 11:30 pmRandomAnon

        We see characters having important & relevant conversations. These conversations moved the story forward more than any of the fights so far.

        I’m not really sure why you tend to think that I want to see more fights than story. Anyway, if the show snipped most of the long-winded dialogues of Meteora, the sixth episode of this show would be the fourth one.

        Selesia? She’s the one who has a bit of reservation in meeting her creator. Without Meteora’s push, god knows how much longer it takes for both Selesia & Souta to meet him.

        I said that she is capable because she has the princess and strong morality tropes. Morality does not play in this part or politics. She is acting as an object of a creator. She just has reservations just because she is practically seeing the God of her universe.
        On the other hand, pacing is in the hands of the studio, specifically the director, not just the writer alone. If you believe that it will be a long time for Celestia to find the courage to meet his creator, then it can be just skipped or shorten meaningfully. Again, you just think that way because you saw the scene where Meteora conveniently pushed the events forward.
        If the anime will keep doing this, it will be just too boring to endure. It will be a tasteless story. Everything will only happen just because there’s Meteora.

        Hah. Even the military commander apologized for their “warm welcome” which was resulted from them being nervous about the giant robot. Their aggression is understandable but even they admitted that they could try a more civilized way to introduce themselves. The amount of action of “JSDF vs. Gigas Machina” in this episode is just right. Any longer and it will drag the story just like Tony & Rhodey’s pointless “Iron-brawl” in Iron-Man 2.
        Huh? Didn’t you watched the episode? The one who brought up and keep going on about the stolen weapon is the SSCC lady. Meteora was just there trying to apologize for it. Did you hate Meteora so much that you didn’t notice it? :p

        Seriously. We were talking about fluff. Is the part where having a roundabout about the weapons completely necessary? Do you even know the meaning of fluff? Regardless of who started the topic, it is Meteora who fluffed. The intent was to insert humor. But if we are strictly talking about fluff, what she did was an example. And it basically disproved your claim about she talking ‘bout nuttin’ but facts

        Watch this episode again and see what Rui and Selesia were doing during the JSDF ambush: they kept fighting without any apparent intention to stop any time soon. Sure, even without Meteora, they will stop eventually, but at what cost? What amount of damage it would take before both groups stop and talk?

        The convenience of Meteora’s presence and instant mediation made them appear that they will not stop. On the other hand, I think you are the one who need to rewatch. Here are some excerpts:
        Meteora: Celestia! Don’t kill him!
        Celestia: I know!
        1. In the first few seconds, the group was able to resist.
        2. A few seconds more, the two creators were disabled.
        3. Military reached Rui. Rui fought hand to hand for a while then called Gigas Machina.
        4. Next scene is that the group is already surrounded with civilians on ground.
        5. Gigas Machina arrived at scene. Military requested backup.
        6. Everything halted. Helicopters focused on group.
        7. Then Meteora.
        I can’t see the part where Rui and Celestia kept on fighting without any apparent intention to stop. At the scene where they were surrounded, she already stopped. Rui, on the other hand, just got to his Gigas Machina.
        Again, you are assuming that Celestia would not call off the fight and decide to do the negotiation. To be honest, I will believe that if Meteora was not there, Celestia will try to cool things down faster. After all, Meteora has the defensive magic. She can’t protect four civilians from heavy gunfire.
        Also, you are assuming the worst of Rui. If it does happen the way you think it will, a few soldiers will die. However, the government here is rationalistic. They know that they are the ones who attacked. Any casualty on their end is justified due to self-defense. The story will flow at it is. They even pardoned the stolen weapons.
        In addition, I will still welcome that outcome. You can’t have bullets flying without someone dying.

        As for the rest of your points (which will be too long to quote): it basically goes back to your dislike of having Meteora around and you built your argument based on a “what if” scenario if Meteora doesn’t exist. Anyone can come up with a “what if” scenario and make an endless argument on that shaky ground, but it would be a huge waste of time. So I’ll just spare myself.

        If you have checked my previous posts about this topic, I explicitly implied that the direction and how the scenarios were written were totally boring, which has caused me to post about it. The primary reason being the off balanced focus on Meteora and useless lines she spewed.
        If I were to focus on the writing aspect of this show, I will have endless things to say. However, it was already discussed too much. On the other hand, if I will do some character hating, Meteora isn’t on the top list. It’s actually Souta and MUP.
        The what-ifs were just there to prove my point. The abnormal amount of focus on Meteora is damaging the presence of other characters, ruins the charm of the story or what’s left of it, and instantly removes any possible opportunities and instances of immersion.
        Anyway, good for you if you are contented with this kind of show filled with ‘convenience’ and underwhelming and pretentious narrative. But I still firmly believe that this show deserves all the criticisms it is getting from people.

      • May 9, 2017 at 12:54 amOby

        @RandomAnon

        Seriously. We were talking about fluff. Is the part where having a roundabout about the weapons completely necessary? Do you even know the meaning of fluff? Regardless of who started the topic, it is Meteora who fluffed. The intent was to insert humor. But if we are strictly talking about fluff, what she did was an example. And it basically disproved your claim about she talking ‘bout nuttin’ but facts

        The two are having a freakin’ conversation. The official brought up the stolen weapons and Meteora responded, simple as that. Also, before you further perverted my words, here’s what I actually said:

        It helps that she talks nothing but facts and relevant theories & hypothesis with not much fluff

        See? I said “not much”. I didn’t say “none”. And truth be told, Meteora stealing those weapons are also facts, so it doesn’t disprove my points at all. Still want to go at it?

        As for the rest of your post, well…. you came up with all those “what if” Meteora-less scenarios in your head almost like a fan-fiction. I could try to argue against your “made-up” universe but what good will come out of that? You’ll just twist the scenario around to fit your ideals. Me, I chose to stick with the actual story that we have. I will criticize the bads and I will give credits to the goods.

        I don’t consider Re: Creators to be perfect, excellent, or even great you know. It just has enough wit for what I expected to be a popcorn brawl show that pit figures from different origins against each other like Drifters & F/SN. But the show is actually willing to dig a bit deeper into its “creations vs the world”-theme. If this series are going downhill later on, I will address it without fail and will have fun tearing all the flaws apart like Aldnoah before it (boy, that one went downhill fast). Can it be done better? Absolutely. But so far, I enjoy it as I found the ingenuity outweigh the flaws especially now with a government who are actually competent for this kind of series. If I’m looking for serious sci-fi story or drama, I won’t go to a show like this, I’ll watch something along the lines of Shinsekai Yori and Rakugo instead. Those are excellent, flaws and all.

        Also, the thing about the writer apologizing: he apologized for the lengthy exposition in episode 4. He didn’t apologize for Meteora as a character nor he regretted making her as she is (so far, at least). I found it to be fitting as I’m not a fan of episode 4 myself.

      • May 9, 2017 at 2:06 amRandomAnon

        The two are having a freakin’ conversation. The official brought up the stolen weapons and Meteora responded, simple as that. Also, before you further perverted my words, here’s what I actually said:

        Point here is that, her reply is still fluff. If I were to dissect every line she spouted in the anime for fluff, I will lose a lot of time. It is how her character was created.

        Just refer to my previous posts since I guess my points aren’t getting across. It is also a good idea to recheck the previous posts made by the ones who were talking about writing.

        As for the rest of your post, well…. you came up with all those “what if” Meteora-less scenarios in your head almost like a fan-fiction. I could try to argue against your “made-up” universe but what good will come out of that? You’ll just twist the scenario around to fit your ideals. Me, I chose to stick with the actual story that we have. I will criticize the bads and I will give credits to the goods.

        Ideals? Fan fiction? Give me a break. It’s just a simple what-if taking into account everything that was presented and to prove a point. I referenced the scenarios – no need for twisting whatever.

        Also, the thing about the writer apologizing: he apologized for the lengthy exposition in episode 4. He didn’t apologize for Meteora as a character nor he regretted making her as she is (so far, at least). I found it to be fitting as I’m not a fan of episode 4 myself.

        Err. What? Who has the longest exposition again? Who has still the longest exposition on the next episode? And what was my point?

        I don’t consider Re: Creators to be perfect, excellent, or even great you know. It just has enough wit for what I expected to be a popcorn brawl show that pit figures from different origins against each other like Drifters & F/SN. But the show is actually willing to dig a bit deeper into its “creations vs the world”-theme. If this series are going downhill later on, I will address it without fail and will have fun tearing all the flaws apart like Aldnoah before it (boy, that one went downhill fast). Can it be done better? Absolutely. But so far, I enjoy it as I found the ingenuity outweigh the flaws especially now with a government who are actually competent for this kind of series. If I’m looking for serious sci-fi story or drama, I won’t go to a show like this, I’ll watch something along the lines of Shinsekai Yori and Rakugo instead. Those are excellent, flaws and all.

        If you enjoy the show, then yeah. What I said previously still stands. And it is already a matter-of-fact for me.

        About Aldnoah. Sigh. It was too late for me to know that Re:Creators was from TROYCA. If I had known, I would never have started watching this show. Aldnoah is just that bad that I don’t want to experience getting baited on the first episode, get disappointed on the second, hope for improvement on the third, rinse, and repeat. That’s just how bad Aldnoah is for me.

        With all things said, let’s just agree to disagree for now or whatever works. After all, next episode’s last episode for me if one of my brows rises again.

      • May 9, 2017 at 2:52 amOby

        @RandomAnon

        Point here is that, her reply is still fluff. If I were to dissect every line she spouted in the anime for fluff, I will lose a lot of time. It is how her character was created.

        And? I never said that Meteora is free from fluff. I said the fact & theories outweight the fluff in this episode when she talked to the boards in that specific scene. When I’m talking about fluff info, it’s not about fluff toward audience, but fluff toward the board-members. In that case, what Meteora said on that meeting is not very fluffy as most of them are important input for the board-members. Really mate, you’re arguing a non-issue here and only looking for trouble at this point.

        Err. What? Who has the longest exposition again? Who has still the longest exposition on the next episode? And what was my point?

        This is what you said:

        Tried to accessing the link to the Twit Rei Hiroe posted to clarify if he really did an apology to the Japanese audience.

        Well, I happen to know that Twit, and Hiroe exclusively apologized for episode 4’s rather lengthy expository scene, not about Meteora or the show (so far). Oh, and he also praised Aoki’s animation in that Twit. Just throwing some facts out there as my reply.

        What I said previously still stands.

        And what I said previously still stands too.

        After all, next episode’s last episode for me if one of my brows rises again.

        If you dislike this series so much then why even bother? Just drop it now and it will save your time.

        let’s just agree to disagree for now or whatever works.

        Sure, why not? If you stop replying then I’ll stop replying back. After all, you’re the one who replied me first. All I did was giving you my answers.

      • May 9, 2017 at 4:17 amRandomAnon

        Would have replied another lengthy one, but free time’s over.

        If you dislike this series so much then why even bother? Just drop it now and it will save your time.

        You sure try so hard to “read” and assume. If I dislike the series too much, I will not need somebody telling me to stop watching it. I wouldn’t even put an effort to discuss anything regarding this series. I believe that things can improve given enough push and criticism.

        I tend to see comments like that often in the community, which is, in my opinion, senseless. The show might redeem itself and I might enjoy watching it again. If you aren’t like that, then good for you.

        Just as much as there are people who are contented with how things are going in this show, I am sure that there are few who would want to keep following and see how people behind this show will act about the concerns pressed by the audience.

      • May 9, 2017 at 5:22 amOby

        @RandomAnon

        You sure try so hard to “read” and assume. If I dislike the series too much, I will not need somebody telling me to stop watching it. I wouldn’t even put an effort to discuss anything regarding this series. I believe that things can improve given enough push and criticism.
        I tend to see comments like that often in the community, which is, in my opinion, senseless. The show might redeem itself and I might enjoy watching it again. If you aren’t like that, then good for you.
        Just as much as there are people who are contented with how things are going in this show, I am sure that there are few who would want to keep following and see how people behind this show will act about the concerns pressed by the audience.

        Mate, dropping a show doesn’t necessarily mean that you stop watching it forever (I did say “drop”, didn’t I?). You can always drop an airing show (that disappointed you in its earlier episodes) and pick it up later on after you heard good things about it, or just ignore it if it turns out to be awful. I did that all the time as well as my buddies coz, these days, we have no time to follow many airing anime series that I’m not excited about. Also, chill. I’m not telling you what to do, just giving you options that can do you good.

  • May 7, 2017 at 7:53 pmLaughingMan

    I’m so confused…where was it mentioned that the blue-hair glasses girl is Setsuna (they only mention her as Shimazaki) and where was it mentioned that Setsuna committed suicide? I think I may have gotten lost in all this exposition.

    • May 7, 2017 at 8:40 pmzztop

      There was a glasses girl who killed herself back in Ep 1′s opening by jumping in front of a train. Souta’s flashback to meeting this girl, his recognition of the fanart video, Gunpuku’s musings to avenge her (alleged) creator Setsuna’s death, and the emphasis on this girl in the OP led us to believe she’s Shimazaki Setsuna.

    • May 7, 2017 at 11:17 pmPancakes

      zztop pretty much summed it up, but IIRC the glasses girl here was also specifically identified as Shimazaki Setsuna (both names), whether verbally or in writing. The suicide has not been confirmed, but this girl and the one in episode one are the same, so it’s a logical conclusion to make from the information available.

  • May 8, 2017 at 1:28 amVelvet Scarlantina

    http://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2005%20-%20Large%2015.jpg

    You know, I was thinking if we had a Re:Creators x GATE crossover during thie SDF assault.

    • May 8, 2017 at 6:46 amErimaki

      I honestly thought they were fictional JSDF from not-GATE at first.

  • May 8, 2017 at 3:23 amonion warrior

    It hasnt been days yet this section has already filled with tons of LENGTHY discussions about our god-Meteora Deus ex Machina infinite knowledge of everything lol XD (remember guys, she is designed to easily feed on information if i recall it correctly, thats why she eats a lot because she thinks a lot).

    I didnt get to join the crazy party with y’all last week due to me being busy with magazine deadlines XD but now am back *wink wink*~~~

    Ehem,…I kinda enjoyed this week’s episode though. Yes, god-Meteora has more screen time than ever before (not to mention continuously in a row now). Though the action scenes werent that much, i enjoyed it nevertheless (seeing how stern Meteora can be in dealing with tight situations, that was fanservice for me; plus how everyone heavily relying on her in every single decision that she had to say “Dont ask me.” aka “STOP ASKING ME ALREADY”-remark).

    Celestia was funny in this episode, didnt expect to see this side of her (i’ve always thought shes a perfect hime-knight kinda type). And yes, i wonder how old these two girls are(Celestia is definitely 20+ since shes into beer). Rui is now my new favorite, would like to see more of their interactions in the future (god i really like Rui’s creator’s responses all the way in this episode, poor dude. He got a nice house though XD)

    So, guys…cool it aye. If this were written by Urobucher, we can clearly anticipate Meteora’s death by the end of first cour and i dont think i want that to happen. I dont like the info dump myself too but hey, we have two cours. I hate think too much about the serious things in this anime anymore and just gonna enjoy myself with Celestia.

    Lesson learnt.

  • May 8, 2017 at 6:18 amvaans02

    I’m guessing Souta is Altair/Himegimi’s creator? Since she knew him. Like Souta got traumatized and suffered memory loss after that girl committed suicide. Himegimi said to Celesia that she’s her master’s favorite, because Souta’s cellphone wallpaper is her. Himegimi isn’t touching him.

  • May 8, 2017 at 10:01 amChris hall

  • May 12, 2017 at 12:26 pmArsene Lupin

    Definitely my favorite episode out of what has turned out to be a surprisingly good show.

    Gotta say, though, the “twist” with Souta strikes me as really weird. He’s what, 16 years old? Not really old enough to forget anything he spend a significant amount of time working on, especially something that–presumably–happened relatively recently.

    At one point mid-way through the episode I theorized that maybe Gunpuku was just some random character he designed for 2chan and forgot about, which was then adopted/co-opted by bigots and assholes (thus creating the “popular conception” that seems to be necessary for these characters to exist). Maybe it’s a good thing they didn’t do anything so topical–can’t piss off that otaku demographic!

    Still, though… this plot twist just doesn’t sit right with me. Either he was directly involved with or knew someone who was directly involved with a person who created a character who became sufficiently popular to be “realized” in the real world… and forgot about it? Gimme a break.

  • June 14, 2017 at 3:50 amGoukeban

    Exposition is when characters spout out information already know by the universeof the story, in Re:Creators they were theorizing what might be going on!