First Impressions / Girls und Panzer

「プラウダ戦です！」 (Purauda Ikusa Desu!)
“Against Pravda!”

I am without words. Except for those. Also all of the following, but holy shit! It’s rare for an episode of anime to leave me quite as pumped as this one, despite some of its more… questionable choices.

It’s not hugely surprising that the big secret that the student council has been so tense over all this time, constantly pushing on Miho to be sure she knows they need to win, is that the school will be closing down if they cannot win this tournament. This is not an unrealistic scenario – school funds running low, nothing notable about it to make people interested in keeping it open. Winning a tournament to get some fame and earn sponsorships and the like could be a legitimate way to stop the school from closing. Or so I interpret it rather than assuming that it rests directly on the outcome of the tournament – the tournament provides a last ditch attempt to save the school. Unfortunately, while it’s a reasonable ultimatum for an anime like this, it’s also an overly common one. I find that I can’t really take it as seriously as I’m obviously supposed to, so I’ll put it aside and leave it at that. The rest of the episode is too awesome to be marred by a single flaw.

You see, Pravda is a whole new level of enemy. They top their predecessors in so many spectacular ways and the handling of this was brilliant. Show, don’t tell – this is one of the keys to good storytelling; you can spend masses of exposition explaining just how terrifying these foes are, but that won’t be nearly as effective as showcasing it in style. I’m not a huge tank buff and it would be detrimental for the anime to assume that all potential viewers would be, so showing tanks which vastly outclass their opponents would never be enough to accomplish the job effectively. Yet Girls und Panzer manages to bring across just how much of a step up Pravda is with perfect clarity.

It begins with the characterisation of their leader – Katyusha (Kanemoto Hisako). Like every one of the other teams, she represents her designated country through attitude, appearance and choices of musical themes. And my god, Girls und Panzer knows how to use music. The episode opens with Darjeeling having tea on the Russian ship, joined by Katyusha and the deadly Nonna (Uesaka Sumire) while the stately notes of Tchaikovsky’s March from The Nutcracker Suite play in the background. Later, during her introduction to Oarai, another piece from The Nutcracker plays, one that many should recognise: Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy. This is perfect for characterising Katyusha – not only does it match her cutesy appearance and small stature, but it also has that slightly unnerving edge which coincides with the harshness of her mentality and assertions of dominance. The icing on the cake is the frequency with which we see her with red substances all around her mouth, suggesting a brutality and savageness not seen in any of the others so far. In complete contrast, Nonna is the perfect, silent Russian assassin. Where Katyusha goads the others into attack, Nonna is the one who lands the final blow, calmly and without any hesitation. Together they have the makings of an excellent team.

But this is not enough – not by itself. Even the facts that they outnumber Oarai fifteen to six and were the previous champions were not what pushed me over the edge. The crowning glory here, the one thing that designates Pravda as a much greater threat than the others, is deceptively simple. It’s a demonstration of the clever subtlety that frequently makes Girls und Panzer a joy to watch. Every team has had a musical theme so far, drawn from the library of wartime musical cues native to each of the countries they represent. Pravda’s theme is Katyusha. I imagine it’s no coincidence that their leader is named for it- wait are they actually singing it? Holy shit! These guys don’t mess around! It’s all over. Oarai is finished.

To be fair, they really should be. Now I’m not exactly extremely knowledgeable on the specifics of individual tanks and their firing capabilities, but particularly during the ambush I felt as though we were seeing the effects of the Principle of Evil Marksmanship. Oarai can hit two T-34 tanks at a distance but the combined forces of Pravda only manage to disable their turret and damage a set of tracks at close range? This aside, Oarai’s previous victories have made them overconfident – only Miho retains any sense of caution at this point. She even knew that something like this could happen – that the Russians were notorious for counterattacking while retreating – a tactic that worked perfectly against such inexperienced foes who wouldn’t listen to Miho’s guidance. Either she never told them about it, or they never gave her a chance. The latter seems pretty likely given how they acted over the course of this episode. After the whole Leeroy Jenkins situation, I have no idea how they can make a convincing comeback. Even the Sodoko clone army and their additional tank won’t be enough to save them here. I do still fully expect them to win though. How else would Miho face off against Maho for the climactic battle?

tl;dr: @MoombaDS – It’s all over. Pravda teaches Oarai just how inexperienced they are. #GaruPan

Random thoughts:

  • I’m kind of sad to see Gloriana knocked out of the runnings, but a traitorous part of me is also beginning to like Pravda more…
  • That said, the Brits really don’t give a damn about the weather! Look at them sitting out in the snow as per usual!
  • Despite their ultimate overconfidence, it’s nice to see that the first year team gets it – that winning doesn’t really matter as long as you have fun. Or wouldn’t were it not for Oarai’s current circumstances.
  • It’s also good to see that the student council held back a lot when it came to putting pressure on Miho. While it seemed they were being cruel by pressuring her not to lose, they could’ve made things so much worse by telling her the truth. They genuinely cared enough not to want to burden her with the fate of the entire school.
  • Continuing on the same lines, it seems Maho may not be quite as bad as expected. Rather than that, it seems more that she’s under the thumb of an overly strict mother.
  • Ever since we first saw the OP, I’ve been looking forward to an awesome snow battle!
  • Lying in the snow in nothing more than school uniforms? The Russians are truly a terrifying foe.
  • I can’t wait for this OST. There had better be a full version of Katyusha on there!

Full-length images: 22, 23, 24.

 

ED1.08 Sequence

ED: 「Enter Enter MISSION !」 by 渕上舞、茅野愛衣、尾崎真実、中上育実、井口裕香 (Fuchigami Mai, Kayano Ai, Ozaki Mami, Nakagami Ikumi, Iguchi Yuka)

Preview

244 Comments

  1. I am beginning to think there is no reason to look at this anime
    as something even partially serious for military otaku, or panzer
    freaks.

    Katyusha`s Pravda team`s tanks, about eight T-34/76, about five T34/85, one
    KV-2 and one JS-2 are too much for Ooarai`s team, even with their upgrades
    and one more tank. In reality, no contest at all.

    Funny how girls take Russian winter cold lightly, in their bare
    legged short skirts clothing! Leg warmers and doubling some clothes pieces
    would be not enough to stand the cold any longer than 15 minutes as most.
    Maybe the cold and snow are not real in these tournaments, but only for
    staging in old Hollywood movies style.

    But Sodoko`s ultra seriousness and funny voice is always something
    to enjoy when she is taking care of her duties.
    Katyusha has also her share of loli moe charm with accompanying
    funny and cutesy voice. “Piroshki”!

    Erochichi
    Reply

      1. But i love this anime! I meant it has been a lot of discussion of senshado from realistic point of view in commentaries of previous episodes. Now the power difference is so great that Ooarai should not have slightest of chance to win.
        Thing i have enjoyed most of Girls und Panzer is all those cute girl characters from Miho to Sodoko and those 30+ who have had more than one sentence to say!
        I know very well this is anime, not some war documentary!

        Erochichi
        Reply

    2. If you ever thought this anime was going to be serious at all about panzers, you were wrong from the beginning. It’s Japan. Moe sells, panzers don’t. It’s all just a plot device to sell moe.

      You’re also complaining about realism, in an anime about teenage girls who participate in tank battles and live on giant aircraft carriers. They fire tank shells at each other, oblivious of any harm it may cause to people.

      Kim Pine
      Reply

    4. Nope, the show isn’t that serious, but it’s head and shoulders above something like Uppote! in that regard. I like the tank porn and I like the moe girls so I just sit back and enjoy each.

      As far as impossible to win goes. Improbable yes, impossible no. Real world example would be the Battle of Roarke’s Drift in the Anglo-Zulu war which was the basis for the movie Zulu! 150 British troops held out against 3-4,000 Zulu warriors. The Zulu’s had defeated a larger force of British troops at the Battle of Isandlwana just before that, so they were quite capable of overrunning the British. Midway would be another example. Numerical superiority is nice but not always decisive.

      bear
      Reply

      1. I’m not sure your two exemples really relate to Ooarai current situation. Pravda not only have superior numbers, they can also be considered to have the technological edge and the better position.

        At the Battle of Rorke’s Drift, the British enjoyed both strong technical superiority and a well-prepared solid defensive position, while the Zulu’s only advantage that day resided in numbers (at earlier Battle of Isandlwana the Zulus did exploit the terrain to their advantage, which combined with subpar commanding and intelligence-gathering on the British side carried the Zulus to victory).
        At the Battle of Midway, the Americans had the local superiority in numbers and a much better position (due in large part to excellent intelligence), while the technical balance was favoring the Imperial Navy (if not by an ovewhelming margin).

        So in both these historical battles, the side who won actually had 2 out of 3 factors going for him between numbers, quality of hardware, and position. Ooarai has precisely 0 out of 3, so they will need something else to pull off an upset.

        Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Reply

      2. @Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat

        At Midway the American had three carriers: Yorktown, Enterprise, and Hornet. The Japanese had Agaki, Hiryu, Kaga and Soyru with the light carrier Zuiho, so I’m not sure what you mean by numerical superiority. The intelligence played a big part but much of it had to do with shear dumb luck (we found them before they found us). If their air cover had been up at altitude the dive bombers would have stood as much of a chance as the torpedo planes did.

        The Martin-Henry rifle the British used was “technically” superior but suffered from problems such as cartridge extraction and fouling. They did have the advantage of being in the defense, but it was not a situation of having machine guns against a banzai charge.

        Yes, it will take a miracle for Oorai to win but some luck and a brilliant tactic might pull it off.

        bear
        Reply

      3. The japanese also divided their force into 4 separate groups if you also count the Attu and Kiska strike group. None of the groups was close enough to help support the other. It was carrier group vs. carrier group with the japanese having a one carrier advantage.

        EliteF22
        Reply

      4. @bear & EliteF22

        Concerning Midway, Zuiho was part of the Midway Invasion Force, and as such took no part in the battle.
        As to numbers, one should not forget Midway itself, which makes it 4 Carriers against 3 Carriers + 1 Atoll, and an island is generally superior to a ship (the old ‘unsinkable carrier’ cliche does hold some truth) ; looking at planes (which were projecting the actual power in that battle), I have the following numbers:

        Imperial Japanese Navy – First Carrier Striking Force
        72 A6M2 Fighters
        72 D3A1 Bombers + 2 D4Y1 Bombers (prototypes used for scouting duties)
        81 B5N2 Attack Planes
        6 E13A1 + 10 E8N2 + 1 E11A1 Floatplanes on the escorting Battleships and Cruisers
        TOTAL = 225 Combat Planes + 19 Scout Planes
        (also 21 A6M2 were onboard the Carriers and assembled, intended for the Midway occupation force, but with an unknown number of their pilots being Carrier-qualified)

        USN – TF16 & TF17
        79 F4F Fighters
        109 SBD Dive-Bombers
        43 TBD Torpedo Bombers
        ? Floatplanes
        TOTAL = 231 Combat Planes + ? Floatplanes

        Midway
        21 F2A + 7 F4F Fighters
        21 SB2U Scout-Bombers
        19 SBD Dive-Bombers
        6 TBF Torpedo Bombers
        4 B-26 Medium Bombers
        17 B-17 Heavy Bombers
        31 PBY Floatplanes
        TOTAL = 95 Combat Planes + 31 Floatplanes

        So either on Aircraift handling facilities (sea- or ground-based) or on actual Air Power availaible, the USN had superior numbers. Of course luck then played a huge part in the actual battle, but this was certainly not a David vs Goliath situation as is often believed.

        Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Reply

      5. The Battle of Midway is my favorite battle of WWII. Sorry for the long post, but this was one of the, perhaps even the, most important battles of WWII, and US victory was much likely than it may first appear.
        @ Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat: Looks like you got your numbers off of Wiki. According to “Miracle at Midway” citing “Midway: The Battle that Doomed Japan, the Japanese Navy’s Story” (published in 1955 by the Naval Institute), those number are off. Total IJN carrier based aircraft 325, Total US 348.

        First Carrier strike force had at total of 93 “Kate” torpedo bombers, 84 “Val” dive bombers and 84 “Zero” Fighters = 261. Total IJN carrier based aircraft at Midway was 105 torpedo planes, 92 dive bombers, 96 fighters, 24 seaplanes and 8 scout seaplanes = 325.

        Total US carrier based planes = 233: 42 TBD “Devastator” torpedo bombers, 112 SBD “Dauntless” dive bombers, and 79 F4-4 Wildcat fighters (FYI – SBD’s were used for scouting in lieu of “float planes”). Total Midway based aircraft = 115: 6 TBD torpedo bombers, 27 dive bombers (11 SB2U “Vindicators” and 16 SBD-2 Dauntless), 27 Fighters (21 Brewster F2A “Buffalos” and 6 F4-3 Wildcats), 32 PBY “Catalina” scout planes ,19 B-17 “Flying Fortress” heavy bombers and 4 B-26 “Marauder” medium bombers = 115. *US total planes = 348
        —————–

        “So either on Aircraift handling facilities (sea- or ground-based) or on actual Air Power availaible, the USN had superior numbers. Of course luck then played a huge part in the actual battle, but this was certainly not a David vs Goliath situation as is often believed.”

        I’m not sure what “handling facilities” means. 3 US carries + 1 land base = 4 IJN carriers. At any rate, I disagree. Just looking at the number of planes is misleading. A more in depth analysis shows that neither the planes (especially), nor the pilots were equal. The Zero (especially), Val and Kate were all superior to their US counterparts in June 1941.

        The Zero outclassed all US fighters in June 1941. The F4 Wildcat was the best US fighter at Midway, and even then Wildcat pilots were told “never dog fight a Zero.” Not until Jimmy Thatch invented the “Thatch Weave on the eve of the battle (thus he and his wing man only tried it), did Wildcat pilots stand a reasonable chance of winning against a Zero. The F2A-3 “Buffalo” fighter was nicknamed “the flying coffin” for a reason. In the words of Midway F2A-3 pilot Capt. White, “It is my belief that any commander that orders a pilot out for combat in a F2A-3 should consider that pilot as lost before leaving the ground…” The fighters based on Midway were decimated by Zero’s while inflicting minimal losses.

        The TBD “Devastator” was obsolete in 1939 let alone 1941. Attack runs were often made at 100-120mph. Flying a TBD into combat outside of Air Superiority or Supremacy conditions was a suicide mission. The IJN “Kate” torpedo plane much better performance. Furthermore, US Mark XIII torpedoes were notoriously defective in design, while the IJN “long lance” torpedo was easily the best torpedo design of the war. Using 100% oxygen, it was not only faster (40+ knots or so), but had longer range and didn’t leave a “bubble trail” like US torpedoes – making it harder to spot and avoid. Out of the 41 TBD’s launched that day, NONE scored a hit and only FOUR returned (with one then pushed over the side as beyond repair).

        The SB2U “Vindicators” were utterly obsolete by 1941, and had a habit of “ground looping.” During tests in early 1941, the FABRIC covering the wings had a tendency to rip during a dive. It wasn’t even all metal. Ultimately, the SB2U squadron commander decided it unwise to chance the IJH carriers’ heavy Zero fighter cover with these obsolete planes. An alternate target was chosen… with no resulting hits.

        The SBD Dauntless was on the fringe of obsolescence, but despite being slow, it was still a tough, well designed plane. It was, not, however, the equal of the “Val” dive bomber. It’s success at Midway was just as much due to a lucky string of events as anything else. Had the IJN carriers Zero fighter cover not been drawn to the deck by the last TBD attack, it could have been a much different story.

        The B-17s & B-26s proved to be utterly useless for sinking ships (though the B-17s did have play an unexpected role in the outcome). Despite claims by Army pilots, none of the B-17’s bombs scored a hit, and the all of the ridiculously miss-used B-26’s torpedoes missed as well.

        As for the pilots, the IJN pilots were some of the best in the world, with years of training an combat experience. US pilots, especially F32A-3 and TBD pilots, while incredibly brave – they had to be with those two planes. But bravery is no substitute for training and experience – two things most US pilots sorely lacked in comparison to their Japanese counterparts. For example, of the 18 SBD-2 pilots of VMSB-241, only 3 had logged any flying time in an SBD type aircraft. Ten had just joined the squadron the previous week, and were limited to one hour of training due to Midway’s gasoline shortage. As as result, VMSB-241 SBD’s had to glide bomb rather than the traditional dive bomb, and they suffered for it. For the more experienced US pilot, they still had to overcome the marked discrepancy in aircraft quality.

        In contrast, just look at the 1st attack on Yorktown. With 18 Val dive bombers and six Zero fighters launched from Hiryuu, despite advanced radar warning and F4 fighter cover, three bombs hit their mark. Japan’s loss of those experienced pilots at the Battle of Midway hurt the IJN just as much, if not more, as the loss of the carriers and planes.

        While perhaps not the quintessential example of an underdog, the US was the underdog at Midway nonetheless.

        daikama
        Reply

      7. @daikama
        I disagree a bit. The real killing blow would be the carriers’ maintenance workers, not the pilots (yet it was a huge factor, just a little bit less). Think about it this way, what’s more important to vehicles: The crew or the guys that maintain it.

        winters
        Reply

      8. @Winters: “The real killing blow would be the carriers’ maintenance workers, not the pilots (yet it was a huge factor, just a little bit less). Think about it this way, what’s more important to vehicles: The crew or the guys that maintain it.”

        Well, both really since the pilots need functioning aircraft, but the maintenance guys can’t fly the planes. I think a better way to look at it is which is harder to replace? Maintenance or pilots? IMO, clearly pilots. Given that the Japanese pilot program was very stringent in selection and pilots started training as early as 14, I say the pilots. The Americans had a much larger population to draw from and it’s pilot training program was much more concise, albeit maybe not as thorough, but good enough.

        Perhaps the best “answer” is look what happened afterwards. The “Great Marianas Turkey Shoot” comes to mind. Without a doubt, introduction of the Hellcat and Corsair made a huge difference, but there’s more than a few cases of WWII veterans saying that the quality of Japanese pilots took a noticeable decline as the war progressed.

        I think the best answer though is that the combined loss of both of experienced pilots and maintenance crews was a bigger blow to the IJN than the loss of the carriers and aircraft… not that the material losses were insignificant in their own right. Midway changed the war. Not only did it shift the balance of power in the Pacific, but it allowed the US to maintain a “Europe 1st” policy.

        daikama
        Reply

      9. @daikama

        Sorry, but I don’t believe that the USN was the underdog that day. And no, I’m not quoting Wikipedia ; my main sources are Shattered Sword (Parshall & Tully, 2005), Samuraï sur Porte-Avions (Ledet, 2005), Midway Inquest (Isom, 2007) (and a few others, but those are the most recent I have on hand and make extensive use of Japanes source materials, particularly the logs and action reports available for the various IJN Air Groups and ships involved).

        First off, the technical edge: that one was indeed in favor of the Japanese Navy. I agree entirely that overall the Japanese planes (and pilots, I include them in that aspect ; after all, what good is an excellent plane in the hands of newbies ?) were better than their US counterparts (even if they had some issues, like the A6M sheer vulnerability to incendiary rounds and low ammo capacity for its 20mm cannons). On the other hand, the US Aircraft Carriers had much better AA and damage-control practice. Nevertheless, I agree the IJN still enjoyed the technical edge at that time.

        “Aircraft handling facilities” is the only term I could devise to include both Carriers and Midway. 4 Carriers against 3 Carriers + 1 Island is indeed parity. I would argue 1 Island > 1 Carrier, if only because it’s unsinkable, but that’s not really important.

        Numbers: I will trust you on the US side of things, as I am much more familiar with the Imperial Navy side myself. But, to the best of my knowledge, your numbers for Nagumo’s air group are way off, as they look like to be its theoretical full capacity. It is now accepted that none of the 4 Japanese Carriers were operating at full capacity at Midway; after 6 months of near-constant operations their Air Groups had been depleted. This is actually the reason why they could carry 21 fully assembled A6M of the 6th Kokutai that were intended to be based on Midway (it is not known how many of their pilots were Carrier-qualified, or even if they had all their pilots aboard). This was a widespread issue, affecting all Carriers in the Combined Fleet, and even the Seaplane Cruisers Tone and Chikuma. In June 1941, Japan was already having difficulty to replace both material and personal losses.

        The bottom line is, I stand by my numbers for the IJN. The 32 seaplanes especially strikes me as unrealistic: where would they have been ? First Carrier Strike Force Support/Screen had only 5 ships able to carry seaplanes: Tone, Chikuma, Haruna, Kirishima, Nagara. There was simply no way for them to carry 32 seaplanes.

        Now, you are entirely right when describing at length the poor state of some of the Midway-based planes and pilots. One could almost say they were mere cannon fodder, and that’s exactly what many of them ended being for all the reasons you rightly point out. But that was NOT entirely useless. Yes they scored no hit at all, but by keeping up the pressure on Nagumo’s group, not only did they weigh in the balance that lead to Nagumo’s decision to rearm his reserve force for land attack, they also ensured that the Japanese CAP was often running low on its 20mm ammo (much needed against the sturdy US planes) and had to frequently land to rearm, keeping the flight decks busy. In that light, I do believe their gallant efforts were not completely in vain.

        So to sum up, as I see it IJN had the technical advantage (much better planes and pilots, while USN had better Carriers), but the USN had both a number advantage and an excellent position. In the end, despite nearly non-existent coordination compensated by a strong dose of luck, the USN was able to reap the fruits of their ambush. So I would not say the Americans were the underdogs, and neither were the Japanese.

        In the end, we can probably agree to disagree, and still recognize that Midway was a pivotal battle in the war, one which 70 years laters is still fascinating to read about and discuss.
        ________

        @winters

        On the issue of what was harder to replace between the ships, the planes, the pilots and the aircraft maintenance groups, I would say all of them equally. Imperial Japan was simply not ready for prolonged global-scale modern warfare, with everything that entails especially for its industry and the capacity to deal with attrition.

        daikama nails it perfectly when mentionning the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, as it was showcasing every issue : diminishing quality of Japanese flyers, maintenance workers and planes, as an appaling number of aircrafts suffered from mechanical problems, some of the B6N2 had only 2 people aboard instead of 3, and lack of the new D4Y1 lead to the D3A2 still used on some of the Carriers; difficulty to replace Carriers, with Taiho the only new Fleet Carrier that would see combat until the end of the War, the rest being conversions (Hiyo, Chitose, Chiyoda, all serviceable but still limited by either speed or size).

        Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Reply

      10. Still haven’t learned not to shoot my mouth off when there are enthusiasts around that obviously know more than me. Probably could have found decent examples if I’d researched some. Interesting discussion though. Like many battles, the outcome could have been affected by “what ifs”. If McClusky had not spotted the Arashi to lead him to the Japanese fleet, if Nagumo had found the US fleet first, if the Japanese fighter cover had still been at altitude…..

        bear
        Reply

      11. @daikama
        I get what you mean by using the marianas turkey shoot as the example. I just hope that you remember the Japanese already knew how bad their carrier force was and just use them as bait.

        “I think the best answer though is that the combined loss of both of experienced pilots and maintenance crews was a bigger blow to the IJN than the loss of the carriers and aircraft.”

        That was what I was trying to really say, it’s just in my opinion I don’t rate both the experienced pilots and maintenance crews as equal, but it sure comes close. On a scale of 1-10, maintenance would be 10 and pilots would be like 9.8.

        @Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Oh I know that the Japanese was not set up for a long drawn out war. Yamamoto himself didn’t want to get into a war with the US. But since he was loyal he did his Emperor’s will. Yet what I find interesting still would be Yamamoto’s promise of 6 months of good fortune in battle. 6 months later, Battle of Midway.

        winters
        Reply

      12. @winters

        “I just hope that you remember the Japanese already knew how bad their carrier force was and just use them as bait.”

        I may be misunderstanding you, but it sound like you might be confusing the Battle of the Philippine Sea (19 June 1944) with the Battle of Leyte Gulf (25 October 1944). At the former the Japanese Navy had solid hopes, having (on paper at least) rebuilt a strong Carrier force, and evolved their doctrine to use most of the heavy units of the Combined Fleet to bolster their AA defenses (in that sense, the lighter Carriers could be seen as a kind of bait, as they had a much more powerful escort to hopefully wear down the USN attacking waves). The horrendous losses in planes and crews suffered during the Great Turkey Shoot lead to the surviving Carriers being thrown as baits in the later Battle of Leyte Gulf (a mission they faithfully accomplished to terrible cost and for little actual result overall).

        Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Reply

      14. @ Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat:

        You cite a well-respected source for IJN aircraft numbers, and I have no reasonable basis to claim my source is more accurate. Frankly, I think you’re comment about the number of seaplanes makes sense. I don’t have an issue agreeing to your figures. Just to be clear, I agree 100% that overall, Midway’s planes played an important role. In fact, it should be mentioned that Midway’s PBY Catalinas, not just fighters or bombers, contributed meaningfully to the USN’ success. Lastly, by no means do I discount in the slightest manner the valiant efforts of anyone who took part in the battle.

        After reading your post, I went back and took a look at the Battle of the Coral Sea. That was a straight-up “fair” fight compared to Midway, and total aircraft for both sides was surprisingly close in number – almost equal. To me, the Shokaku/Zuikaku vs. Lexington/Yorktown battle on May 8th clearly illustrates just how much of an advantage IJN planes and experienced pilots granted. I think how much of an advantage is where we primarily disagree, and thus reach different conclusions.

        Rather than try to compare numbers and assign value to each factor, maybe the best way to look at this is to simply remove “luck” from the battle. I think we completely agree that luck played a huge role in deciding the outcome. Luck enables an underdog to win. Luck does not determine which party, if any, is in fact an underdog. Therefore, what if the battle was more like the Coral Sea where opposing forces and relative position were known? What if the IJN scout plane #4(?) didn’t have catapult problems delaying launch, or all IJN scout plane radios worked just fine? What if the Arashi spent 15 or 20 minutes less time hunting the Nautilus? What’s the most probable result in those cases?

        Regardless of whether you find the above convincing or not (I suspect not), I thought it was an interesting way to examine the issue. As you say, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Even so, I truly enjoyed the discussion with you and winters. I rarely get the opportunity do so elsewhere.

        daikama
        Reply

      15. @daikama

        Good point on the Coral Sea Battle, especially when one takes into account that CarDiv 5’s pilots were considered ‘second-rate’ by the rest of the Mobile Strike Force (how much of that was truth and how much was arrogance from the more exprienced older Carrier Divisions is anyone’s guess though ^^).

        It is always a pleasure to have a civilized discussion regarding probably the most inspiring Carrier Battle in history. And I believe I understand you at last. Yes indeed, looking at the balance of forces, the Mobile Strike Force should have had a decisive advantage, being at that time the single best Carrier Attack Force in the world. In that sense I entirely agree with you that the USN was the underdog. But then Nimitz and his merry crews did a tremendous job to try and leverage every possible advantage for them, leaving as little as humanly possible to chance when it came to the actual day of the battle – which still ended being a whole big bag of luck.

        And yes, how many different scenarios one could imagine including such star actors as Arashi and Nautilus, Tone scout #4 and Chikuma scout #1, that B-26 pilot that nearly smashed Akagi’s flag bridge and handed First Mobile Force command to Yamaguchi, Best and his two wingmen crippling Akagi by themselves with a single bomb, to name but a few of the many instances that could have drastically altered the battle outcome…

        Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Reply

    5. While I don’t agree with the post in general, in a vague sense a good point was raised – something I thought about mentioning as well. Obviously I like the anime, but one concern I do have is Oarai constantly being a huge underdog. Clearly the show revolves around them being the underdog and overcoming the odds. I have NO problem with that (makes for a heartwarming story), but that doesn’t mean it has to be to such an extreme.

      As others mentioned, I’m not sure why Pravda was allowed 15 tanks vs. capped at 10. Maybe the cap is removed for the semis & finals (now have the image of Saunder’s fielding 40 tanks in a finals match). Frankly, I was disappointed to see Pravda field 15 tanks. Even at 10 tanks (four T-34s & T-34/85s + KV-2 & IS-2), Pravda still has a huge advantage in terms of equipment before one even considers training and actual game experience. 15 vs. 6 (worse odds than vs Saunders) is just overkill.

      I’m sure Oarwai will win somehow. But as much as I liked the Battle of the Bulge tribute, I’d rather see a 10 vs. 6 fight were Miho & co. win due to superior tactics and determination rather than some idiotic Pravda mistake or deus ex machina event. The show’s writing is good enough for that. Hanna’s one in a million shot against Saunders was fine, but repeated unrealistic, inevitable victories quickly become dull and detract from the show IMO.

      We’ll find out next week. Maybe the writers have a good story in place. But for the finals, I truly hope it’s no worse that 7 vs. 10 if not 8 vs. 10. Equal number of tank teams would be ideal IMO as Oarai is still the clear under dog, but winning is more credible.

      daikama
      Reply

      1. Whatever our differences on Midway might be, I totally agree with you on this 🙂 The only reason I can see for allowing 15 tanks to Pravda would be to represent the endless numbers of tanks the Russians did end up throwing at the Germans in WWII ; if that was the writers intention, then Ooarai has to loose. We shall see next monday I guess.

        Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Reply

      2. As I did mentioned before, it seems the writers for this show had been inconsistent with the premise of the show. We were led to believe that the max cap was 10 tanks. But out comes 15 commies. If based on context of WW2, whatever numbers the Pravda/Soviets can field the Saunders/American team should be able to do the same.

        Even if based on total tonnage per team, Oarai’s tanks are outweighed by Pravda’s (especially with the IS-2 & KV-2). I just wish there was a rulebook to explain these overwhelming numbers, firepower, technological, & tactical advantage.

        john
        Reply

      3. john, That may be a sub error in what you’re reading. The ones I watched specifically said “The first round limits the number of tanks to 10″ when they were getting ready for Saunders. The inclusion of ‘first round” led me to believe it would be different for later rounds. I would imagine that it could be a way to give smaller schools (like Oarai) more of a chance in the early rounds, by not letting the larger schools completely overwhelm them with tanks.

        Highway
        Reply

  2. Это был хороший эпизод.
    Я не думаю, что они будут петь боевую песнь.
    Во всяком случае, более “Гёрлс унд Панцер ” эпизод, пожалуйста.

    †Croos†
    Reply

  3. The song Katyusha and co. were singing. Actually, I previously heard this song (a snippet at least) from the documentary series Apocalypse: The Second World War. (As an added trivia, Kenji Kawai also composed the music for the documentary series).

    And thanks to SgtKurtz’s YouTube link, I spent the rest of the previous week watching the other episodes of Greatest Tank Battles season 2, including the episode about tank ace Ludwig Bauer. In fact, Miho and co. getting surrounded by Pravda’s tanks in a village in today’s episode is kinda similar to what happened to him during his time on the Eastern Front.

    Also, Pravda High’s tanks feigning retreat to lead Ooarai’s tanks into an ambush? Vintage Erwin Rommel.
    Show Spoiler ▼

    Funnily enough (and to make it a trifecta of WW2 documentary references), today’s episode of Generals/Commanders at War on National Geographic Channel focuses on the Battle of Kursk. (Yesterday’s episode was about the Battle of El Alamein–see “Vintage Rommel” spoiler above).

    P.S.: Hope we can “outcomment” SAO this time…

    Incognito
    Reply

    1. КАТЮШA (Katyusha) Lyrics :
      Расцветали яблони и груши,
      Поплыли туманы над рекой.
      Выходила на берег Катюша,
      На высокий берег на крутой.
      Выходила, песню заводила
      Про степного, сизого орла,
      Про того, которого любила,
      Про того, чьи письма берегла.
      Ой ты, песня, песенка девичья,
      Ты лети за ясным солнцем вслед.
      И бойцу на дальнем пограничье
      От Катюши передай привет.
      Пусть он вспомнит девушку простую,
      Пусть услышит, как она поёт,
      Пусть он землю бережёт родную,
      А любовь Катюша сбережёт.
      Show Spoiler ▼

      †Croos†
      Reply

    2. My thanks to you and I’m so glad you enjoying the youtube link I gave previous post. At least someone really appreciate the history part of Panzer.

      ” Rommel’s Afrika Korps will usually attack, then feign retreat in order to get the British to chase after them…right into the range of Rommel’s own 88 guns. (Of course, once Bernard Montgomery was in command, the British no longer fell for that trap.)”

      This part is what they called “The Battle of Halfaya Pass”. Doctrine were like this; assemble of U shape trench with 5 Flak 36 88 mm multi purpose field in well dug in position. In order to lure the British tank composite of Vicker, Matilta dan Crusader Mk 1 & 2, Rommel only sent 2 light-recon-fastest tank, Pz II only. Since the dessert bed were flat thus giving the momentum on the Panzer of speed; were able to lure the incoming of the tank. Not knowing why were the British just simply an idiot or overwhelming overconfident in their might, they follow and pursue the 2 Pz II. British were not knowing they are gonna fell in Rommel trap. Within the range of 1,000 meter, all of the tank were sent to heaven of dessert bed. The surviving British tank crew were astonishing the well dug in 88 mm and the strategies of Rommel. This one is the best battle ever suffer by the British during 1st stage of Africa Campaign by D.A.K. Here the link for the Battle of Halfaya Pass; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfaya_Pass

      Even Bernard Montgomery were in service of Dessert Rat, Rommel well dug in Flak 36 88mm were still being use from time to time. The same tactic for fortification of defense during the Battle of Kasserine Pass and Battle of Alam El Halfa, at this moment Rommel in verge of defeat.

      Enjoy the historical knowledge by me.

      SgtKurtz
      Reply

    2. Process:
      1.) Go to http://en.gravatar.com/
      2.) Sign Up
      3.) Costumize your avatar
      4.) After you are done. Use your email add that you registered in Gravatar in the comment section.
      5.) Done.
      *Note
      -Your Gravatar might not appear at once due to technical reason. It will take about 10-30min I think to refresh your default/new avatar.
      -You can also use Gravatar , not just in RC, but in other site as well.

      †Croos†
      Reply

  5. Katyusha, rides a Katyusyha truck then sings Katyusha. I saw what you did there show.

    I confess that the whole battle mad me cringe. Miho screwed up big time. She folded too easily to the Hippo teams stupid offensive plan, then she couldn’t reign her team in when they went all charging in thanks to Momo’s enthusiasm (Seriously, they need take Momo off the radio, she’s too irresponsible as a commander). The sad part is that no one but Miho seemed to realize the blindingly obvious trap that was being set. Even Darjeeling saw it coming. Sooner or later Miho needs put her foot down and understand that the entire team trusts her, and they would follow anything she tells them to.

    Other than that this episode made me very happy with all the Russian tanks. I’m a big fan of the Russian war power and the T-34 is my favorite tank ever. I’ve always loved how it made chumps out of the superior Tiger in the Battle of Kursk. Add the IS-2 and the very intimidating KV-2(and its ginormous turret) and the tank nerd in me is all giddy. Not to mention the Katyusha Rocket ruck, but unfortunately its not for combat.

    fragb85
    Reply

    1. I was cringing throughout the whole battle as well, especially the beginning when her original battle plan was tossed in favor of a head on approach. I was hoping that Miho would reign everyone in and temper their enthusiasm but instead she got caught up in it.

      Really though, I don’t completely fault her for going with the flow. As we’ve seen in the last episode, she has come to enjoy Ooarai’s Senshado and realized that perhaps there is more to it than just winning. Miho seeing all the girls pumped up and motivated clearly showed how much fun they were all having and she didn’t want to dampen that. Add in the relaxed atmosphere of Ooarai, not having that Nishizumi pressure for winning, and no knowledge of the actual stakes for Ooarai’s future – then I can see why Miho just went with it.

      As an aside, it was nice of the Student Council to try and shield Miho from the pressure of how truly important this tournament is for Ooarai. It made me like them more. But in retrospect, with the odds so stacked against them (Ooarai’s inexperience, lack of tanks in quality and quantity), Anzu really should have told Miho. Not to diminish Miho’s contribution to Ooarai’s two wins (because without her Ooarai’s chances would be zero), but they caught a bit of a lucky break with Saunders and Kei’s good sportsmanship. Would Miho have done things differently during the first round had she known? Perhaps push to find additional tanks and teams to field before the nationals even start? Make upgrading the Panzer IV a priority? I would like to think Miho would if she knew what was on the line.

      I suspect with the knowledge that Ooarai will be closed down if they lose, Miho will really shine and we’ll see the true tank commander Nishizumi Miho of the Nishizumi-Ryu. Still, poor Ooarai is in a really bad tactical position. Personally, it reminded me of the 101st Airborne’s encirclement at Bastogne (especially with Momo’s “NUTS!” comment) Agh…waiting another week for an episode of GuP is so painful lol.

      Anyway, my first post here but have been lurking for a while. This show is so awesome that I decided to contribute to the discussion.

      RifuloftheWest
      Reply

      1. Well, remember that was Miho’s first thought. All out blitzkrieg since they didn’t stand a chance against Pravda’s numerical superiority. Her failure as a commander is in direct proportion to her love of her friends. Commanders have to command. She never instilled that kind of obedience so her troops, in their inexperience, ran wild. Also Miho didn’t know the stakes. They all thought they had done very well for novices and had had fun, so what’s the problem? Telling them before hand was questionable because it could have done as much damage as help by putting enormous pressure on Miho and the gang. The Student Council actually came up in my estimation in their inability to tell Miho the truth while waxing nostalgic over their time at Oorai. They really love their school.

        bear
        Reply

  6. It’s not hugely surprising that the big secret that the student council has been so tense over all this time, constantly pushing on Miho to be sure she knows they need to win, is that the school will be closing down if they cannot win this tournament.

    Yes, because we already know why they are pushing Miho and reassembling Tankery again even before this episode: during the fight with Sanders, the one in command of the enemy flag unit said something like “they’ll be disbanded anyway….”

    TheMoondoggie
    Reply

      3. Guys, this isn’t really a competition. If you have something to say, then by all means do so, but beating SAO’s comment count doesn’t really prove anything. Just rest easy knowing that the quality of discussion on GuP posts tends to be a lot higher and that while relatively underappreciated, it’s easily one of the best shows airing this season. There’s nothing to prove!

        If you really want to out-comment SAO then do so as usual, with solid discussion and well thought out reasoning!

        Moomba
        Reply

      5. 215 +this one against SAO 290+…

        Utter fail…

        Goddamn critics have to face it: this anime is the only one that can beat SAO this season, too bad they have to criticize everything that isn’t ugly-protag infested and boring, LOL.

        TheMoondoggie
        Reply

  7. I’m not sure that Pravda’s shots were off the mark in the ambush. Katyusha’s request for Oarai’s surrender proves that: if possible, she don’t want to obliterate them. As for tank to tank force, Pravda has a definite advantage over Oarai. Unless the Tiger(P) is a hidden card in here, with the StuG III damaged and the Lee without its bigger cannon, Miho need a miracle to win this.
    Personally, I would be glad if Miho can put a shell on Katyusha’s overconfident rear. One thing is being arrogant because of superior forces, but mocking Miho for last year’s victory (underserved in any POV) was a complete lack of respect. I’ll say it now, I don’t care if she’s a pint-size Stalin, Katyusha deserves a spanking. On the other side of things, Nonna is the silent sensuality encarnated. If someone said to me that her VA is the same as Chuu2’s Sanae, I would’ve shot him. Nice voice modulation.
    Quite stupid of the SC not telling Miho about the closing of Oarai. Miho is not fighting for them, she’s fighting for her batallion, friends and the place she can call now “home”. Closing the school reeks of politics, so let’s bury that now. As for Maho, she’s the Felipe Massa in the Ferrari-mode Nishizumi Style (trapped by contract)

    SeedStriker
    Reply

    1. That’s certainly a possibility but the impression I got of Pravda, especially in light of the little we were shown of their previous battle, is that they’re rutheless and absolutely decimate their foes without any signs of remorse.

      Moomba
      Reply

      1. I think that is exactly why they purposely forced Oorai to church, so they only have two options left: Surrender and humiliating themselves, or totally crushed in one swoop (using KV2 to destroy the building -> Oorai must go outside through the door -> T-34/85 + IS-2 shot them one by one)

        Ante
        Reply

  9. Mind blown. Certainky set the tone for the rest of my day.

    From their preparation to go against Russia to their optimisim and the various dialogues when there were in Russia, I kinda foresaw this coming. The skirmish and the chase was a reminiscent of the WHermarcht rolling across the Russian steppes and Erwin’s comment on Stalingrad made me shudder.

    The urban warfare truly reminded me of Bastonge and Moomba… I’m sad that you didn’t pick up McAuliffe reference… NUTS! Though commie subs need to churn out 8v2 to fix that!

    Though Incognito… I’m rather sad that I didn’t pick out Rommel’s tactics there =(

    Any hypothesis to how they would bust out of Stalingrad? Its either they bust out or the Tiger Porsche comes and lifts the siege?

    Oh and Russian tanks make a TV DEBUT!

    c2710
    Reply

    3. Though Incognito… I’m rather sad that I didn’t pick out Rommel’s tactics there =(

      Actually, the tactic of feigned retreat is older than Rommel. But considering the usage of WW2-era weaponry in Sensha-do/Tankery, the Rommel reference seemed to be the most appropriate comparison. (That and I watched the Generals/Commanders at War episode about the Second Battle of El Alamein the day before yesterday.)

      Besides, it’s not like I can cram every possible reference in today’s episode into a single comment post (lest I fall into “wall of text” territory and indirectly restrict the discussion). Hell, I forgot about the reference to Bastogne and General McAuliffe. (NUTS!)

      Also, I have yet to talk about how Miho was the only one who’s genre savvy about Pravda’s tactics (she did face them last year), yet she relents to her comrades’ suggestions of a quick offensive. Since Miho sees her comrades as friends instead of subordinates and add the fact that Team Ooarai was in good spirits after curb-stomping Anzio, Miho felt that she shouldn’t rain on their parade.

      Anyway…a call back to your episode 7 comment:

      Knowing Commie and their antics, I think we’re in for copious amounts of red banners and FOR THE MOTHER RUSSIA!

      Yeah, Commie Subs had a field day subtitling “Katyusha” and the Russian war cry. URA!! XD

      Incognito
      Reply

  10. I really didn’t expect to hear Katyusha being sung in this anime. I know they will play at least one Russian-themed march during this batle, but this one…is damn surprising.

    Some speculation
    Show Spoiler ▼

    Kevin Yamagata
    Reply

      3. The best solution to being ambushed and surrounded is simple: Break through it. If anyone can do it Miho can, but only if she doesn’t buckle under the pressure. Either way, staying in the building is a death trap.

        fragb85
        Reply

      6. @ fragb86 – I concur with you on that. Rommel DID say that a force with an intact command structure WILL be able to break out.

        Though my concern is that they’s be going through a bottle neck. Its one way in and out and unlike in the desert, they don’t have any space to shift the centre of gravity

        c2710
        Reply

      7. @Germanguy:
        If Miho and company will attempt a breakthrough, they’ll probably take advantage of the IS-2 and KV-2’s slow reload rate. (Similar to how Team Ooarai took advantage of the Sherman Firefly’s slow reload rate in the match vs. Saunders.)

        IIRC, the “Battle for the Baltics” episode of Greatest Tank Battles season 2 mentions that the IS-2 used two-piece rounds (shell and cartridge were loaded separately), giving it a lower rate of fire than the Tiger I (Tigers used single-piece rounds). As for the KV-2, a big gun needs a big round, so reloading will also be slow for that.

        The trick of course, is how not to get hit by them. This is where mobility and speed should be the main focus. And factoring in the remaining T-34s, I guess Miho’s Panzer IV, the Hippo Team’s StuG III (if the damaged track can be repaired) and possibly the Goose Team’s Char B1 can provide covering fire for those making the breakthrough. (And the Duck Team will need good covering fire considering their tendency to get hit. What’s more, they’re the flag tank!)

        Incognito
        Reply

    3. @jusuchin: “..especially since the ENTIRE VILLAGE WAS RIGGED. You don’t just build a hull down position for a JS-2 that quickly, or a snow barricade.”

      Very good point now that I think about. In fact, that “hull down” position looks deep enough to be “tank down” Any Battle of the Bulge vet would tell you trying to dig a meager fox hole in frozen ground is tough enough. Some GIs resorted to using grenades! That is one big hole (https://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2008%20-%20Large%2033.jpg).

      If really wish there was a copy of the senshado rules. I took the village itself as just part of the field, but as Jusuchin points out, Pravda must have set up the IS-2 “hole” and snow barricade (I don’t see any dozer tanks like the M4 Sherman) PRIOR to the start. That seems like a probable rule violation – one which could offer a way for Oarai to win. I don’t mean a default victory, but maybe permitting an extraordinary allowance such as a tank swap.

      I fully admit that I’m struggling to find a “plausible” way for Oarai to win, and I’m grasping at the proverbial straw here.

      @Incognito:

      “(Similar to how Team Ooarai took advantage of the Sherman Firefly’s slow reload rate in the match vs. Saunders.)” Minor point. I can see how that line gives that impression, but I don’t recall the Firefly, which uses standard one-piece ammunition, being any slower to reload than other tanks of similar caliber. The shells were massive, so maybe not quite as fast as an M4, but nothing like the IS-2’s separate charge and projectile gun.

      “The trick of course, is how not to get hit by them. This is where mobility and speed should be the main focus.”

      LOL – that’s putting it mildly. Panzer IV turret damaged & can’t rotate, StuG III can’t move due to broken track (M3 Lee damaged too, but meh, not like it matters much). The only two tanks with sufficient firepower against Pravda now have their offensive abilities limited, or essentially nullified since the StuG III has to turn to aim. One tank can’t move, and two tanks, including the flag (B1 Bis and Type 89) are slower than anything on Pravda’s team. Besides, as people have mentioned, the T-34 is faster than any Oarai tank. Since that isn’t enough, Oarai is surrounded by twice as many tanks. Forget speed & mobility, Oarai needs a giant earth boring machine to tunnel their way out. Where’s Hobart when you need him?

      daikama
      Reply

    4. Since this is a sport event, it is possible all arenas are provided with defensive features spread around – a barricade here, a foxhole there, etc… They could be either fixed and known to all teams, or randomized for each match (or even a mix of both). Maybe we could spot them on the Blu-Ray version of the aerial view Miho had on her laptop.

      “I fully admit that I’m struggling to find a “plausible” way for Oarai to win, and I’m grasping at the proverbial straw here.”

      I can only imagine the weather as a factor strong enough to level the field in a realistic way. With low enough visibility, coordination might become an issue for the encircling Pravda team. I’m counting the days until we get our answers !

      Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
      Reply

      1. Very true. Such defensive features may be part of the battlefield design. We really don’t have much to go on other than the Saunder’s match and maybe the St.Gloriana scrimmage (seemed “official”). I didn’t see any additional, man-made defensive modifications in either one, but that’s hardly dispositive.

        “I can only imagine the weather as a factor strong enough to level the field in a realistic way. With low enough visibility, coordination might become an issue for the encircling Pravda team.”

        Possibly, but Pravda has to be a master at winter warfare. The range here is so short (less than 100m) that you’d need “blizzard of the century” type conditions IMO.

        Another random thought. Since it’s a nighttime battle, a sudden barrage of flares, or better yet, star-burst shells (if tanks had those) might temporarily blind Pravda gunners just long enough. IDK. It’s such a dire situation. I’d seriously LOL if Oarai won because Pravda’s flag tank suffered a mechanical breakdown.

        “I’m counting the days until we get our answers!”

        You and me both! I still say 15 vs. 6 is just overkill, and now, a credible Oarai victory seems almost impossible. But I must admit that despite any criticism of implausible victory conditions, the show’s writers have completely captured my attention, and honed my anticipation for next week’s episode to a razor’s edge. Good script writing indeed.

        daikama
        Reply

  11. you know what they lack here, comrade?…

    hell march from red alert… imagine…

    while soviet tank roll in the snow over the hill firing at ooarai tank… hell march song at the background

    lou
    Reply

  12. The CG was really impressive this episode, with the tracks made in the snow and particle effects and snow stuck to the tank wheels. I particularly liked the scene where the anglerfish tank breaks over the corner of the hill going down into the town.

    CarVac
    Reply

  13. My comment on this;

    1. Morale – very high among Oorai team. Seem last previous match, they won victoriously. Morale are now in highest stem among the team. With the new upgrade for the Pz IV, new add in tank for Char B1 and her 3 crew (from disciplinary team), it’s seem thing a good condition.

    2. Confident or overconfident? – although there is an upgrade of weapon and gear, that is not the appropriate one can say can win in the upcoming matches. Different tank means different people that operate it. Although knock out 2 tank ( T-34/76 or T-34/85 ) and pursing the runaway tank, it’s too early to be confident you can win the match. This tactic resembles the Battle of Halfaya Pass by Erwin Rommel tactics. Funny isn’t it. The Hippo crew should realize this kind of tactic or the overconfident blind their taste of victory.

    3. Tanks – Owhhh how badly the outcome have become. The Russian tanks combine with KV 2, IS-2 and couple of T-34 family manage to outrun the Oorai Panzer. CQB in town is the worst nightmare for tanks to operate. Tanks can manage hide, disguise and stand alone static firing position ( good role for KV 2 ) and plus they have the monster tank which the most hated by German Panzer ; IOSEF STALIN 2!!! Even Tiger and Panther tank had hard time knocking out this monsters but this monster share same weak spot with Tiger (engine).

    4. Flag of declaration – At least Oorai giving time in 3 hour for surrender. In this situation, what will Miho do? If they loose, means they will have to close down the school or miracle might happen?

    5. Waits for next episode…

    SgtKurtz
    Reply

  14. Well i am curious to know myself. How they wanna survive this “Rattrap”. If they stick their Nose out of this “Old Church”, the Nose get bitten! And Thanks to the “Door” bottleneck, they can cam only one after other. So there is no change of Guarding each other.

    Mmm. And i dont saw any Back-exit. These Building has only this “Main” Door

    They are really in a Pinch. Only Change is to get them “Out of Surprise”. But survive change is very Slim. Perhaps the Fastest Tank can survive. But after the “Pravda” shoot the Others, they surly hunt it down. T-35 are fast Tanks…

    Germanguy
    Reply

    1. Let make a “door”. They can ram at the back of the building, only leaving behind StuG III since her track already smashed. Still, there’s T-34 need to be considered. They are very fast, well amour and well arms, even for the Pz IV can be knocked out in instants; her turret turning are already damage.

      I’m concern for miracle to happen. They in pitch black situation right now.

      SgtKurtz
      Reply

      1. Well, the Gear is in “close” range. Perhaps they can get it, and repair the Stug. (Like the Prez done it in their Practice Battle). So, the Stug is not “really” out of Buisness.. And if they cant, They can Use it as “Armor”. Push in front. But that would not really work. If the T-34 circle around, this “Armor” is useless

        Only Option is see. If the T-34 are not in a “Circle” around the Door, they can “Bait out” with the Stug or Lee. The “bait” get shoot and create “Cover” for the Others to quick came out and hard turn Left or Right and hope to make it behind the Houses for Cover, but this is very Risky and “panic” Solution. This is not suited for an “battle Formation”

        This will be more, “Drive for your Life!” Solution

        I am really now out of Ideas, to get there out “Alive”

        (Remember the Renault!. It’s Slow like a Turtle!, and the Crew is “Newbie”)

        Germanguy
        Reply

      3. You let me to thinks; how well the Renault perform in snow field? Germans panzer even for 38 (t), StuG and Panzer IV can perform a bit better in snow field. M3 Lee and Type 89, no such records in performing movement in snow…

        aahhhh well….this is anime anyways. Anything from impossible to possible can be happen.

        SgtKurtz
        Reply

      6. Mmm, is there some “Ice lake” nearby? Well, T-34 is lighter as some tanks of Oorai. So this falls out of solution. But perhaps the “Big Ones” break trough the Ice. The “Nippon” Tank is the best solution for this for me, light, Fast with Smoke Flares and “Experienced”

        As the Renault, they could use it as “Fortress”. But a correct Hit from KV-1 or IS and this Fortress is a Ruin 🙂 (Btw, in WW2 the French Panzer was all Designed for WW1. And where “Out-designed” from the Go)

        Oorai’s Flag Panzer has Speed. And this is his solution. Lucky the most “German” Tanks are fast here. They should us this. But remember, T-34 are fast, too. Oorai must cause confusion on the Enemy. Because with Confusion, Human make Errors.

        Germanguy
        Reply

      8. “Make a door” seems to be the only thing they can do. If they sacrifice the Stug and use it to draw fire (and it might even take another tank out before it’s hit), they could make a break for it and try for a quick desperation shot at the flag tank. If Pravda has gotten overconfident and not protected it they might have a chance. Pravda did do a much better job of protecting their flag tank than Saunders did but their runt commander has a Napoleon complex and Miho’s crew has the best driver and gunner and did very well in urban fighting with the Brits so it might work.

        bear
        Reply

      9. So i found 3 “possible” Solutions to “Move On”

        1) Create a Smoke Screen, big enough to Hide the “Renault” inside, infront of the Door. Use the “Renault” Front Armor to withstand some Hits, while in the meantime he move slow Forward to make space so they can get out. Perhaps they can play “Fake Stug”, while inside the Smoke. Use the Lover Gun to “Fake” the Gun of the Stug (High). While there is Space, and “Renault” under Fire. The Others can hide behind him, and can use “Hard Turns” to “Flee”. Or make a “string of Pearls”, and on Go they “flee” from the Smoke Screen, into Hiding.

        2) The Point of Yesterday. Use 1 of the “Out of Game” Tanks as “Battering Ram” Armor. And the Same Idea like in Point 1 (Perhaps more Honor), try to make Confusion inside the “Attack Line” so that somehow they Shoot the Flag Tank with Friendly Fire. This is in my Eye the best solution, because the Guns that can “Hurts” them are all out of Action. Lee is Destroyed. Panzer 3, turret Jammed. They are now some kind of “Stug” alike. Stug gear Destroyed (But Repairing is not Impossible)

        3) The Oorai Commander knew that this will happen, and has her “Deus Ex Machina” Tank, ready 🙂 But then, as the “pravda” Commander visit them at the Start. This “Deus Ex Machina” was not there, or did i oversaw this “Huge Heavy Battle Tank”?
        The Team? Well it is this 3 Ladies. Where the School cloths just fir 🙂 They are “borrowed” from “Dark Wood” (Remember the “Tank fall into Water Crew”?) And surprise Pravda with a Shoot on their “Flag Tank” from Behind of the “Hill”

        p.s. I love this Speculation 🙂

        Germanguy
        Reply

      10. “Let make a “door”. They can ram at the back of the building.” Agree 100% with you SgtKurtz, though frankly, I can’t see a way out of this without repairing the StuG III, pin point timing, flawless execution, and Pravda stupidity. That’s asking a lot.

        My guess is that Pravda won’t have the building surrounded either due to over-confidence or fear of friendly fire from poor shooting. Unless Pravda is smart enough to hide a couple of tanks 500m behind the back of the building as a precaution, the escape route out the back should be clear. Also, by going out the back, the building becomes a partial shield.

        First, try to repair the StuG III track. I think there was a comment(s) that that Pravda may not let them gather the track. Well, try anyway. Just be surreptitious about it (if that’s possible). The StuG III and upgraded Panzer IV are the only two with any realistic chance of knocking out the Pravda tanks – especially the IS-2. Oarai can’t afford to lose one let alone both.

        Second, though probably impossible without maintenance (even then unlikely in the field), try to fix the Panther IV turret. Won’t hurt to try.

        Third, use some excuse (“getting some fresh air”, “answering the call of nature” if one of those buildings has proper facilities – this is televised after all, etc.) to do some recon on foot. What’s behind the building? How are Pravda’s tanks positioned?

        Fourth, make sure all gun chambers are loaded and that EVERYONE is clear on the plan – no deviations!

        Fifth, repeat step 4

        Sixth, Pray. Seriously. Divine intervention almost a prerequisite here.

        Once Pravda opens fire again, used an HE round from the B1 Bis 75mm howitzer to create a back door with Pravda shelling masking the sound. At the same time, some combination of StuG III, Panzer IV and/or M3 Lee return fire under partial cover while blocking Pravda’s view. Then run like hell the very second a hole in the back wall is made. B1 Bis leads the way followed by the Type 89 Flag (99% sure it’s the flag tank this time), and then 38(t).

        StuG III goes next since Oarai MUST have the StuG III or Panzer IV alive to have any chance of winning and Panzer IV turret is kaput. Sorry Rabbits, but if I have to sacrifice something, it’s going to be slow, big, bulky and without a good AT gun. Panzer IV VOR, out the back door with the M3 Lee, if not in small pieces, the last one out. Rabbits are supposed to be lucky anyway.

        Lastly, might be a good idea to initially split off in different directions in an attempt to confuse Pravda tank gunners. Once out of Pravda’s line of sight, somehow try to mask/cover tracks in the snow as team rendezvous at predesignated point.

        Other than that, Deus Ex Tiger.

        daikama
        Reply

  15. Them Ooarai team having chobham plot armor aside, they truly deserved drubbing at the hands of snobby Russians… Going straight into feigned retreat and encirclement, and even after Erwin and friends mentioned winter+tanks+russia = STALINGRAD!!!!!
    Katyusha song as T-34s with KV and friggin JS in tow was AWESOME, too.
    re-wateched the fragment time and again…

    http://youtu.be/EAAtJNTlr-c
    the song mini-amv edited out for you!

    Tl;DR – this show is made from highly enriched awesomnium, and even gets probably best Russian speaking seiyu there is in Japan for the sake of singing awesome Russian song

    ewok40k
    Reply

      3. @Bear

        If you are the fan of German Panzer, this is a must song to remember by. I’m a die hard fan or otaku for scale model 1/35 & 1/72 tank of any German Panzer post war and modern war. Hearing those inspire song inspiring me do more scale model.

        SgtKurtz
        Reply

  16. as a Finn, seeing them in school uniforms lying in the snow made me chuckle, considering here i am, using an extra radiator, wearing thick socks and a sweater. and i’m indoors.

    my favorite show of the season, although kinda depressed that is it only 12 episodes

    /crosses fingers for a second season.

    Necro
    Reply

    1. I’m guessing the snow shogun/warlord is Honda Tadakatsu based on the antler design of his helmet. (Someone confirm this for me). I Lol’d cause I just finished watching Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon and that historical figure was depicted in this series.

      Arashi Yamato
      Reply

      1. I’m not sure if this is supposed to be an actual person or not.
        The antlers could imply that it’s Honda Tadakatsu, as you said, but Tadakatsu is usually depicted with a black armor and Oryô talks about painting it red, which was the color of Takeda Shingen’s armor (who had a different helmet decoration).

        Zannafar
        Reply

  18. It’s funny how back when Saunders sent 10 tanks against 5, everyone was like “Those dirty cheaters” and now Pravda is considered awesome despite sending 15 tanks against 6. That’s the power of singing I guess.

    Zannafar
    Reply

    1. Yeah, i wonder how 1 Tiger will help in the Next Battle against “Dark Wood” (Schwarzwald!). Dark Wood surly has more “Tigers” and Tank in Numbers.. Perhaps the “Directors” here should not overdoing this “David vs Goliath” (in Numbers and Strength) here. for the Finals (i think around Episode 10 we see the Final fight. Well must be, or else the School is disbanded. so, at last is for sure)

      Germanguy
      Reply

    3. I just think the scene is awesome not the mismatch.

      I think the final battle will see Miho paired off in a battle with Miha in a TigerXTiger matchup. Probably because mom commands MIha to “finish her off!” My speculation is:

      Show Spoiler ▼

      bear
      Reply

  19. I love this series but did not like a couple of things in it this week…

    The commander makes a decision on strategy for the battle and all the girls pretty much ignored her battle plan and want to rush right in on an overwhelming overpowered enemy? How did they think that was going to end? Pretty much the way it did. Then the Commander (Miho) gets talked into rushing right in as well. I know the girls were confident based on previous battles but to me it contradicted everything we have seen to this point in this series.

    As the commander of the squad Miho needs to “nut up” and follow her own knowledge and gut feelings more and not be swayed to a game plan she knows is the wrong one. Her being talked out of her battle plan and into a foolish one by the other girls on the squad kinda shows a wee bit why here mom is unhappy with her.

    Karmafan
    Reply

  20. Wow my heart was pumping as soon as This scene appeared. Then it was pumping fast and loud through the rest of the episode right in the middle of class :D. Kay a few things:

    First off I need to thank Moomba again for covering this frankly niche anime. It may not win many awards but it probably knows its audience better than any other. For the upcomming RC awards it gets my vote as the Dark Horse of 2012 and should definately be on the list for soundtrack.

    Nice to have the mechanics featured at last. They have been the unsung heroes of this team in actual fact doing all that work. I was also surprised to see Darjeeling at the Pravda school. Seems very much like her to do that sort of thing but I don’t know what she hoped to accomplish. Get Katyusha overconfident? Doubt it.Speaking of which doesn’t anyone find it Ironic that a Russian has a Napoleon complex? Think 1812.

    Still despite her rather off the shelf attitiude she seems a very competent commander. More on that later.

    First the Ooarai team has become over confident and careless forgetting the reason they won in each match is because they did what they were told and maintained the initiative. This is not what happened. Drunk on success they allowed themselves to break dicipline just like in episode 1 and set themselves up for(as the history team aptly put it) Stalingrad. Everyone else has already done a good job picking that bit apart but let’s look at another aspect: Miho.

    This is where we see her flaws: she’s weak willed. That’s a bit simplistic so let’s break it down a bit. She knew they were going right into a trap and she didn’t make them stop.
    “The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others”–Sun Tzu.
    SHE COULD HAVE MADE THEM STOP. If she raised her voice it definately would have gotten some attention. Once again from Master Sun– “Those skilled in military operations achieve cooperation in a group so that directing the group is like directing a single individual with no other choice.”

    Anyway that’s been covered so let’s go over to Pravda.

    First to enighten on their use of a wopping 15 tanks over Saunders 10. In the subs I saw for episode 5 Miho said that the “Old” rules for Panzerfahren said that up to 10 could be used. I guess the rules have changed. Maybe even as early as this year.

    Pravda was actually quite clever in their choice of flag tank. It blends in with the rest of their T-34s and because of the environment(it’s dark) it’s very hard to pick out the actual flag. So in a group the flag tank is hard to pick out. This also means they don’t have to be too cautious about using their big tanks. The IS 2 and what every WoT player on the forums has been hoping for: the KV-2 aming its anime debut(see it rhymes).

    First they were excellent in using their scouts to determine not only the position of the enemy but their intentions as well. From that they were able to choose the right course of action: an ambush. Katyusha may have a Napoleon comlex but also like Napoleon she is a skilled commander. It was a well executed ambush even if it was a bit obvious. Still it seems that Pravda sized up their opponents well.

    I expected the first shots from Pravda to miss in the ambush since(plot armor aside)Russians in WW 2 had a tendancy to “always miss the first shot”(this is testimony from German WW 2 vets that I saw in the “Gretest Tank Battles” episode: Battle for the Balkans). Anyway the Lee loses it’s only useful gun and the Stug has lost a track. In addition the Panzer IVs turret is jammed. The jam and the track can potentially be repaired on site but the Lees gun is a huge loss. Basically the only tanks with a chance of destorying Pravda’s tanks are damaged.

    Pravda or more specifically Katyusha’s demand for their surrender is I suspect more than just for her Ego. I imagine there’s some kind of rule involving brining a part of the environment down on top of your opponent.

    That reminds me. I was anxiously awaiting this post so I could find out what Moomba though about a sung version of Katyusha. I don’t think it’s right for any Russian song with singing to not be sung. It’s so damn catchy I can’t stop listing to it. Catchiest tune since the Buck Bumble… DAMN!!!

    Anyway at this point we find out how Miho’s PTSD(or whatever it is at this point) has manifested itself. Basically she’s terriied of anyone getting hurt to the point she seems almost paranoid about it. It’s also here we se her willpower at its lowest, there’s just no fight in her at all. I think this is the main reason(as many have speculated) that Maho has been so cold towards her and why she’s getting basically disowned.

    Speaking of Disowned I was surprised to see Hana’s mother there. Everyone was dressed for summer though. It didn’t bother me though ’cause I know where that part of the animation budget ended up: The KV-2’s turret! I also love how they made the KV-2 sound differently as it drove past(just before they started siginng).

    This anime is so awesome that like Moomba I have no words. I look forward to more work from this studio and staff.

    Roguespirit
    Reply

    1. They are so overwhelmed by vastly superior numbers they will probably have to use the terrain to outsmart Pravda like lead them onto a iced over lake and break the ice or something similar.

      Karmafan
      Reply

  22. Again a very good episode. This is saying something that I was 95% certain it would again let us without finishing the battle and I still watched it because it is just that enjoyable even when ending on a cliffhanger of sorts.

    I especially liked the overall atmosphere, made of subdued dark blue tones and a barren landscape (https://randomc.net/image/Girls und Panzer/Girls und Panzer – 08 – Large 21.jpg). I have never been to Siberia, but in my mind it should look like this. Add to this Katyusha sung in a chorus… very good stuff.

    On the combat side of things though, I do confess myself worried. Miho having trouble imposing her views is in-character for her (makes one wonder how she managed back in Black Forest though, but as second-in-command in a probably very strict hierachical structure there likely wasn’t much discussion of her orders). Katyusha offering Ooarai to surrender though – and giving them three hours to do so – makes very little sense.

    Now if Ooarai is to win that match without relying only on the old ‘Improbable Aiming Skill/A-Team Firing’ combo, they need a miracle. And the only thing that might carry them to victory would be the weather. Were it to worsen enough to limit visibility to point-blank range, that could pretty much negate Pravda’s numerical superiority. Beyond that…

    Also I’m quite happy to see I was right to reserve my judgment about Maho. I was waiting for her to actually speak about their family matters, as she was obviously keeping what she thought to herself.

    Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
    Reply

  25. I heard Uesaka Sumire majors in Russian and speaks the language well. It seems she’s made for this role. This and with Dekomori in Chuunibyou, I’m really enjoying her voice acting this season (DEATH~DESS).

    Unajuuphile
    Reply

  26. Ooarai have to lose, if it wasn’t for the plot shield, they would have been completely obliterated already.

    This is a replica of the battle of Stalingrad, for respect to history, common sense and fairness, they should lose. If they act stupidly against a foe who is not only vastly superior, but also clever, they just don’t deserve to win.

    Of course, the rules here are different, they’ll probably end up scoring a lucky hit on the flag and win in the end.

    But come on, Pravda sings! how can anyone not want them to win? I hope Ooarai loses and someone else pays for the school so it doesn’t get closed down.

    trolo
    Reply

    1. This is a replica of the battle of Stalingrad, for respect to history, common sense and fairness, they should lose.

      Yes, but it’s also the battle of Bastogne with the Russians in the role of the Germans asking for the US to surrender and with Rommel replying “NUTS” in the role of Gen. McAuliffe.

      Maybe Pravda will get a contract to tour as the Pravda MIlitary Chorus. 😉

      bear
      Reply

      1. Soviets demanded the encircled Germans to surrender and they refused at first, while Paulus wanted to surrender, Hitler commanded him to fight to the last man, so they kept fighting pointlessly and hopelessly, until Paulus finally gave in and surrendered.

        The whole encirclement and the surrender debate happens in this episode, without the final outcome (yet).

        trolo
        Reply

      3. @ trolo – Well, it is possible to say that Miho is Paulus while Momo is Hitler in this case. Though I think the Bastonge reference stays stronger since Momo did say “NUTS!” and the town gave that “Bastonge feel” to it

        c2710
        Reply

      4. I didn’t say it wasnt a reference to Bastogne, just pointing out that the whole situation is still within the frame of Stalingrad.

        Anyway, while i think is nice that Pravda uses advanced tactics showing how strong of an opponent they really are, I think they didn’t chose wisely. There just wasn’t any need for encirclement. Pravda’s forces were so superior that only the Pz4 and the Stug posed a minor threat. The IS-2 alone could have taken on the whole team by itself with little problems by just taking taking those two tanks at long range and ignoring everybody else. Add a Kv-2 and 13 T34 into the mix… there was never a chance for Oarai in a direct attack other than a possible lucky hit on the flag tank.

        They could have encircled them by simply outmaneuvering them with their fastest tanks and largest number while doing the frontal assault.

        Now Oarai are in an even worse situation, completely pinned down with only one escape route, and an immobilized STUGIII facing backwards which is as useful as a paperweight now, just like pretty much every other tank in their team except the PZ4.

        But really, the battle would have ended quickly if Pravda just charged in a frontal assault, and probably wouldn’t have sacrificed any tanks at all.

        trolo
        Reply

  27. – I only found out about the Katyusha song through this anime, and it rocked. I was actually picturing this music playing during that scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDQ7hXMLxGc and it happens to be one of my favorites in the Red Alert 3 soundtrack.
    – I was actually waiting for Katyusha to finish her lines with de geso. Not happening.
    – The anime’s staff must have already had Uesaka Sumire in mind for the Pravda school, with her love of Russia and weaponry. I may need correction of the weaponry part.
    – Interesting insight there Moomba. I didn’t think of all that red in Katyusha’s face as a representation of bloodlust.

    Zhinvu
    Reply

  30. Didn’t get to watch until as soon as I wanted so posting even later that normal. *sigh* 98 comments already… I’m sure everything’s been covered already, but FWIW my comments are as follows:

    – Another very good episode. I knew this was going to be a good episode when the Public Morals Committee (PMC) showed up to the Renault BI1 Bis, and Anzu calls there leader “Sodoko”. I was totally expecting the mysterious trio from the OP to drive the Renault.

    – Good job by the writers again. It looked like the secret the SC was holding would finally be revealed during the hotpot dinner, but then Anzu (rightfully IMO), just couldn’t say it. Still, a very nice scene. LOL’d over the Anglerfish based hot pot, and I thought the poignant reminiscing well executed. Frankly, I didn’t suspect that the secret would be revealed at the end. Guessed right earlier about that, but poor Miho… Finally she gets to enjoy school life and senshado now this ton of bricks is thrown on her.

    – Nice of the writers to throw the tank buffs a bone in terms of essentially stating that the Panzer IV has been upgraded to the Ausf. F/2 model to clear up any speculation. Oarai got the KwK 40 L/43 rather than L48, but it still more than doubles penetration power of the old gun and the extra armor’s a bonus.

    – I stand by my view that Miho’s mother is not going to win the “Mom of the Year” award anytime soon. If, as has been suggested, here complaint is that “Miho gave up,” one would think she would be elated with Miho’s return to Senshado, rather than be angrily talking about “hearts of steel” [Commie TL so subject to change >_<) not to mention going the extra step of disinheriting Miho. Mom's all about controlling the Nishizumi (i.e. her) reputation. Maho, on the other hand, looks to be more compassionate. Nice to see that as it gives some hope for reconciliation at the finals.

    – Another Chibi team leader? First Anzio, now Pravda. Katyusha sitting on top of Nonna reminds me of Anzu using Momo as step stool to get into the 38((t) in EP 02. <3 Nonna. She seems very capable and polite, if a bit on the quiet side.

    – LOL at Darjeeling playing mind games with Katyusha. Darjeeling’s definitely one of my faves.

    – Pravda’s shooting is pretty crappy for a national champion team. Conversely, Hana has found a new sharpshooter comrade in the History team’s gunner. Not 100%, but I seem to recall that the only Oarai tanks making “kills” were the upgraded Panzer IV and StuG III. Writer’s “keeping it real” since those are the only two Oarai tanks on the battlefield with any meaningful firepower.

    – Very strong Pravda team: seven T-34's, six T-34/85s plus a KV-2 and IS-2! This is why I was disappointed when one of the “new” tanks Oarai found was the B1 Bis, 60mm max armor notwithstanding. The T-34s F-34 76mm gun can penetrate 60mm of armor up to 1000 yards. As for the more powerful 85mm, 122mm and 152 mm (howitzer or not) guns the result is pretty obvious. Even worse, the B1 Bis’ 47mm AT gun and low velocity 75 howitzer will need a close (guessing 100m or less), well placed shot to penetrate the T-34 (both models) 45mm of front AND side AND rear armor. The KV-2 and IS-2 are impervious to either B1 Bis gun.

    – Oarai is VERY lucky not to have lost ANY tanks (i.e. no white flag popping up) so far. The damaged tracks can be readily replaced, but it looks like poster comments about the Angler Fish team swapping out the damaged Panzer IV for the Tiger(P/or whatever) are spot on. Miho’s gonna need that 88mm gun and 100mm of front armor.

    daikama
    Reply

    1. History has it that Russians miss their first shot.

      Beyond that, I think they just want to torment Oorai with their fast superiority in firepower… How where have we seen that? Africa? Eastern Front? Normandy?

      c2710
      Reply

      1. The Russian just “trow” the Tank Crew into battle. They made Experience trough not Dieing. So not that much “training” they receive. i think. So they learned with Time to Shoot better and so on

        They just need to get a “Feeling” for the “Flying speed” of the Shell. Because Distance, Moving of target and so, are just “numbers”. But “time to Hit” is Experience

        Germanguy
        Reply

  32. so next battle from oarai is the russians aka pravda give now they got 6 tanks & new crew join for miho to command also had meet student council from history together include mud wrestling.

    yet speaking of miho her own mom plan to disowner her from family legacy even her sister is shock to did not want hear that.

    here come russian led by lil russia with high russia going russian sing for battle give miho’s team go charge sure got few hits on them to lead to IT A TRAP of so many russians.

    cue hide in building with message from russian kneel or in russia tanks ride you give miho feel at we had fun til momo spill the beans we need win or school go bye.

    red_alert
    Reply

  33. Absolutely loved how they worked in references to Battle of the Bulge so hence the additional comment. The US troops surrounded at Bastogne were a tough bunch, mostly (but not entirely) consisting of the 101st Airborne division. When US Corp. Carson asked a medic at the aid station why the wounded were not being evacuated, the medic replied “Haven’t you heard? [to which Carson replied he hadn’t] They’ve got us surrounded – the poor bastards.”

    US Gen. McAuliffe, unlike say Patton for example, was known not to curse, and used “nuts” often instead. McAuliffe copied the full reply (“To the German Commander: NUTS! The American Commander”) and distributed to the troops as a motivational tool. While being escorted back by US. Col. Harper, German Lt. Henke (who delivered the surrender request), looked up in disbelief. “Nuts?” he asked. Col. Harper “kindly” interpreted for him. “It means go to hell.” Henke understood that.

    In WWII, Bastogne held out despite the odds (and in doing so played a major part in limiting the Germans initial advance) before ultimately being relieved by Gen Patton’s 3rd Army, 4th Armored Division. Patton brilliantly understood the situation immediately and was able to like up with the troops at Bastogne far faster than even Allied commanders thought possible. With no 4th Armored Division to the rescue, I’m curious to see how Oarai pulls a victory out of this one.

    Perhaps I’m looking too hard for WWII references, but moments before and during the battle made me think of the Japanese “Victory Disease” in WWII. A big stretch, but maybe making the Type 89 the flag tank (VERY questionable move) rather than the 38(t) or some other tank was a small hint. Lines like “We’ll be fine” and “I don’t think we could lose” when talking about a full-fledged, straight on attack for “a decisive battle” (quoting Adm. Yamamoto) strike eerily close to the Japanese attitude prior to the Battle of Midway.

    Unlike the Japanese military command at the time, Oarai knows they are “outgunned” by more than 2:1, rather than the mistakenly assuming the opposite. “Victory Disease” would certainly help explain Miho’s poor decision making early on. Last minute strategy changes, NO recon at all in stark contrast to every prior battle, failing to spot an obvious trap, and failure to maintain discipline – both prior to the battle (failure to temper over confidence) and during (reckless chasing of Pravda tanks). Fortunately for Miho and Oarai, instead of a disastrous outcome per Battle of Midway, instead we fast forward 2 ½ years to the Battle of the Bulge where Oarai is given a VERY timely “time-out.”

    daikama
    Reply

    3. Seriously the siege can go 2 ways… Either they get reliefed by the Abrams (aka the Tiger Porsche perhaps) or the same end that the 6th Army does.

      Either way, it ain’t pretty.

      They should have a vote on this and it’ll be interesting to see which prediction’s correct or remotely close to the battle’s conclusion.

      c2710
      Reply

  34. And so, my impressions.

    Also, who else got feelings of the situation they’re in to that of the Siege of Bastogne? Momo’s response to the surrender demands mirrors that of General McAuliffe’s. But then again, we also got a sense of desperation with the Siege of Stalingrad, with Miho being set up not only as General McAuliffe (who though will be Creighton Abrams?) but Paulus as well.

    Alright, my impressions. First off, the musical cues are bloody amazing. Tchaikovski, a well known Russian composer, was used along with his most world-recognized The Nutcracker, and undoubtedly the most well known Russian war song, ‘Katyusha’. Oh I just love replaying that part. The last series that EFFECTIVELY used musical cues utilizing classical or non-Anime specific music was Legend of the Galactic Heroes. At least in my opinion.

    Pravda. They are the first ‘true’ opponent in my eyes. Russia was a very harsh fighter, and utilized mother nature and sacrificial units to great effect. Human wave attacks? Think that’s all done by IJA soldiers against entrenched US Army/Marine positions? Naw, those Soviet conscripts did em too against German MG nests. You can see that with the bait tactic, sacrificing two T-34s for that.

    My first thought about Pravda’s battle strategy was ‘we have the numbers’. So far with the T-34-76 being utilized as bait, keeping the T-34-85 at the rear is smart, why let the tanks with heavier firepower out to be sacrificed? Granted the only ones to truly pose a threat to them would’ve been the StuG III and the Panzer IV Ausf F. Still, the IS/JS-2 coming out of a tank bunker was, well, the biggest sign they damn fucked up.

    I can’t help but feel sorry for Maho. It shows she still cares for her younger sister, but no offense, their mom is a plain bitch. There, I said it. I can see WHY she would want to disown Miho, but it’s still a damn shitty reason. No doubt when Ooarai scrapes off a win from Pravda, we will see who will break first. Ooarai as a team to BFP’s guns. Or Maho, who might not be the ice queen that’s been portrayed the entire time.

    Back to the battle, as Moomba pointed out, the dual nature of Pravda’s commanders is complimentary. Katyusha embodies the iron will and bear-like curiosity of the Russian people, while Nonni is Russia herself. The great motherland that froze Paulus’ men and machines into submission before the Zhukov did. Silent, uncaring, and taking care of her own (sometimes). Brings shivers up my spine on how great GuP has gotten the mannerisms and stereotypes of each nation the schools represent. Now, I don’t advocate stereotyping, but admit it. Each nation has a ‘view’ of another, and GuP plays that ‘view’ in a manner and portrayal that I consider quite respectful.

    Ooarai. Well we’ve gotten several hints, but now that the secret out, will we see our girls fall into a spiral despair, or shall something happen to get their fighting spirit back up? The school about to be disbanded, I wonder what happens to the ship. I wonder too what the actual town will say to being disbanded, but it’ll most likely be elaborated further.
    No doubt there is speculation on the Tiger (P) coming in as a deus ex machina, which I still HOPE for that the three featured in the OP that have yet to appear are from the Panzer IV that Miho rescued. Call it a fantasy, but I want that to happen.

    It will be a wonder how they’ll do it. I imagine that they might go for a breakout and scatter with the Panzer IV on flag defense, StuG III with the B1 bis and M3 Lee as diversion. Pz 38(t) as the other flank for the Type 89. The B1 bis still has it’s howitzer intact, so they can blast out. Careful observation of enemy movements to find the weak spots, and break out either there, or even more ballsy, towards their Flag or the JS-2 and KV-2. An inviting target as we’ve seen with Pravda is just a new encirclement. Miho’ll earn her place as Field Marshall Rommel’s protege’ if she does this. If not, a descendant of Paulus.

    Goddamn cliffhangers!

    Jusuchin (Military Otaku)
    Reply

  35. I remember reading something about Soviet combined arms where they actually rode into battle on top of the tanks. And here I was complaining about Miho sticking her head out!

    Yes, I first thought of Bastogne, but then I’ve had minimal interest in the Eastern Front even though that is probably as classic a tank on tank battle front as you can get.

    I had to look it up but the Nutcracker movement was “Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy”. Perfect for falling snow. Katyusha was just perfect for that scene and having Nonni and Katyusha sing it was genius.

    I agree with you about Maho. I speculated on this earlier in the thread. I think Maho is going to be confronted with a dilemma and be caught between their mom and her sister.

    The only tactic I could think of would be to make a backdoor and, assuming they’ve left the flag tank vulnerable, make a dash for it and take it out. The only other thought was to rush the flag tank in a group shielding the Anglerfish long enough to get the shot in.

    As for the Tiger, they never mentioned it in the opening scene. Who would man (girl) it? Maybe the automobile club? Them showing up would at least make it less of a magic trick to win. It would be hilarious if they snuck up and sniped the Pravda flag tank! Also would frost Katyusha’s cookies!

    bear
    Reply

    1. Tiger Porsche sniping at “Stalingrad”…

      How fitting to include Russian sniper refrence in the show.

      Well… The battle can end in either of the following ways… Breakout with serious casualties OR pummeled to submission… That is if you look at historical references

      c2710
      Reply

  36. I’m using Hiryuu subs instead of commie so I don’t know if it was translated the same, but was Miho to be the next head of the family? I’m trying to remember if that was spoken at anytime. If that is the case. Then that would mean that Miho is much better at Senshadou then her older sister Maho. Only reason Maho was captain is that she is the older one.

    Reading most of these comments, I would have to disagree with the thought of Battle of Stalingrad, or Battle of the Bulge. Looking at this would be a combination of the two. First we have the Battle of Stalingrad with the ambush, next they did break out and went down to a defensive position in which we now have Bastogne with the famous “Nuts!”

    In regard to the Russian tactics, now that it has been shown I think we may start to see some German defensive tactics. As the western allies kept forgetting how dangerous the German army was on the defensive.

    Lastly, to anyone playing WoT, did the phrase “RUSSIAN BIAS” enter your mind at anytime? I keep reading it on the forums and wondering what do you think?

    winters
    Reply

    1. Ja herr winters…

      Its just because of the uncanny similarities to both Stalingrad and Bastonge that we have plenty of speculations of its outcome =)

      And as a WoT player… I have that feeling as well. The Pz IV and Marder II has been nerfed beyond recognition

      c2710
      Reply

    2. I was impressed by the quality of the vocals. Not every seiyū can sing well, and it’s more difficult to do so in the character’s “voice” rather than one’s own.

      Just one more item to pile on to the growing list of things this show had done well. The writers & directors are almost obsessive about detail, and it’s paying off. Saw some post where JP Amazon Girls und Panzer BD pre-sales are dominating the charts. Unless the show inexplicably implodes, I can’t see how Season 2 isn’t a lock.

      This may have already been mentioned. Evidently, there will be a short (12-13min) OVA bundled with each BD volume. The BDs should look great as attention to quality remains. Release of one of the BD volumes was pushed back a week because the OVA quality wasn’t up to the director’s standards. Finally, first OVA is supposed to be a beach episode ;).

      daikama
      Reply

  40. To all the comments about the Tiger showing up to the rescue: If they had the Tiger tank working with a crew, they would have brought it 3 hours earlier to the competition opening. Also, I have never heard of any competition that lets you add an unregistered competitor to a game after it started. To quote Sanders, it wouldn’t be “fairplay” to add a surprise unit that the enemy never knew was even on the field. Afterall, this isn’t battle, its a ladies sport for the developing of their womanhood.

    Rommel should have know mentioning Stalingrad was a death flag and kept her mouth shut. Miho even told us what was going to happen, they like to lure you by retreating and then launch a counterattack.. Pravda, dangled the best bait possible by showing their flag tank that was hard to resist. But, that was insanely risky. A lucky shot would have ended the competition though I did notice other tanks manuevering to block for it to minimize the risk.

    JustSaying
    Reply

    1. I have to agree that exposing their flag tank was a significant and probably unnecessary gamble on Pravda’s part. It was certainly the best bait they could offer, because -not- taking the opportunity might well have been a critical mistake for Ooarai. Before Pravda’s final trap sprung, Ooarai was literally one lucky shot away from an upset victory – and given the marked improvement in their technical skills, it needn’t have been all that lucky.

      That said, I think making the gamble might show a distinct sort of sportsmanship on Pravda’s part. Given their marked advantage in numbers, materiel and intelligence gathering they could plausibly have forced a direct confrontation without ever exposing their flag; the approach they took instead offered their opponents a slim, but real, chance at victory. It’s a different flavour of sportsmanship to Kei’s, but still.

      Of course, it could also have been a simple demonstration of disdain for Ooarai 🙂 Given Katyusha’s demonstrated personality, that’s probably more plausible.

      Either way, though she may remain nameless, faceless and voiceless, Pravda’s MVP for this episode was probably their flag tank’s driver. Her dodging skills while under fire from essentially the entire Ooarai lineup (while keeping their attention on her so the others could close the trap) would probably give Mako a run for her money.

      Valens1k
      Reply

  41. Moomba: Hopefully this is OK (on topic). If there’s an issue, my apologies. Please just delete my post. Thanks again for covering the show.
    —————————-

    Every since the first EP, I’ve been thinking “What would be the ideal tank line up for Oarai’s teams?” With so many WoT players & WWII “fans” here, I’m curious as to their opinion. So with that in mind, I present the very unofficial “Oarai Team Tank Composition Challenge”
    —————————-
    Rules:
    1) Tanks (including tank destroyers) must be production models ONLY with manufacturing and delivery prior to Aug 15, 1945. No prototypes or “one offs”. Thus NO US T-28/29/30, Panther II, Tiger(:P), Centurion, Super Pershing, etc. Yeah I know the one or two Tiger(P)s saw combat as did one Super Pershing, but let’s keep it simple here. There’s enough to choose from as it is.

    2) Just like Oarai, you can pick tanks/TDs from any country rather than be limited to models from a single country (e.g St. Gloriana, Pravda, etc.).

    3) You may choose NO MORE than EIGHT (8) tanks/TDs. (I’m assuming that post stating Oarai ends up with eight tanks teams is correct).

    4) Just like Oarai, only ONE of each tank model may be selected – upgrades & other variant’s count as the same model. EX. Can NOT pick a Tiger I and a Tiger II, an M4 Sherman and a Firefly, or a Panzer IV Ausf G and Panzer IV Ausf H, etc. Reason for prohibiting Tiger I and Tiger II is that both are designated Panzerkampfwagen VI. Arguable either way, but I think this way is more in line with Oarai’s team model.

    5) Just assume that there will be enough people to man any given tank/TD properly. Trust me, Anzu will see to it personally. We only have six teams now, so if you want to assign teams to tanks, leave two blank.
    —————————-
    FWIW, I’ve never been to WoT before reading comments. Looks fun, but have enough games backlogged as it is. So while I think this is a good team, tactically, it may not be the best. I wouldn’t be surprised if WoT players came up with a better list. Here’s my list with initial team assignments (subject to revision):

    • A34 Comet (This or Tiger II, but going with better mobility so Miho can cover the battlefield. 17 pounder knock off gives Hana sufficient firepower – Angler fish team).
    • M-18 Hellcat (VB team showed some recon skills & perseverance vs. Saunders – Duck team).
    • M-4 Firefly (?).
    • Jadgpanther (doing fine in the StuG III so why change? – Hippo team)
    • Tiger II Ausf B – Henschel turret (not my 1st choice of teams, but got to put them somewhere & there should be enough room – Rabbit team)
    • Panther Ausf G (?).
    • M-26 Pershing (Momo PLEASE, PLEASE hit something, preferably the other team’s tank! – Turtle team)
    • T-34/85 (decent tank for the rookies to learn – Goose team)

    Notes:
    – Keeping the Panther & Firefly teams open in case the two unknown Oarai teams turn out to be competent shooters. Having reservations Angler fish in Comet vs. Tiger II or even Panther.

    If Oarai only has seven teams in the end, I’d drop the T-34/85.

    – My goal was a well balanced team with a bit of emphasis on firepower. A least 4/8 tanks should be able to take on whatever comes my way at a reasonable range. 5/8 if I get HVAP rounds for the the M-26. Other than the Hellcat, armor ranges from acceptable (Firefly, T-34/85) to excellent (Tiger II). Other than Tiger II, all have fairly good to excellent mobility -> important IMO since Oarai tends to be outnumbered. Reliability is questionable for Tiger II and maybe Panther and/or T-34/85, but should be good for the rest.

    – Hellcat is certainly a questionable choice, but best one there is for recon IMO. Can’t shoot them if you can’t find them.

    – FWIW, Passed on IS-2 because I don’t like the two-part, charge + projectile ammo. Fine for artillery, but the girls struggle enough with loading times as it is. Plus that means less rounds carried overall.

    Hope everyone has fun with this, and looking forward to seeing other teams.

    daikama
    Reply

      1. VERY nice choice with the M24 Chaffee and the Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer as well. Forgot about the M24 (XD) as light tanks tend to be over looked toward the end of the war. Very well could be a superior choice to the M-18 Hellcat. AT isn’t quite as good due to barrel length, but better armor on a more modern chassis. Truly an excellent light tank – probably best of the war IMO. The Hetzer with it’s small profile could be a very nice pocket sniper.

        If not too OT, I’d like to know your thoughts behind including the light tanks? More flexibility?

        daikama
        Reply

      1. Very nice selection. My bias regarding the two part ammo for the IS tanks might have lead me to overlook a very capable tank. Jadgtigers 128mm is just awesome, not to mention it’s a true “tank castle” with all that armor. I thought about that being my flag tank.

        Panzer II stands out to me. Any particular reason for including that, or any other comments regarding the reasoning behind some of your choices?

        daikama
        Reply

      2. I liek teh selection, but i think the tank’s are limited to worldwarII and i believe IS3 cmae too late to see action.
        The panzerII is oen of my favs but it’s gun is inadaquate for tank VS tank at this stage especially looking at the vehicles fielded by the other teams.

        Tarnik
        Reply

      3. @daikama,
        The Pz2 is for recon and bait if necessary. The selected Luchs variant has a high top speed and could outrun heavier tanks. The medium/medium-heavy tanks would be to provide some fight to the opponents and if things gets to hot, be the second bait. They will draw the opposing side into the kill-zone with the super-heavys at sniping range.

        john
        Reply

    3. Don’t have enough tank knowledge to dispute your choices. They seem good to me. I’m please to see the M-18 TD in there. After just reading about the TD’s in WWII, I don’t thing the Tank Destroyers get anywhere near the credit they deserve for their contributions to the war. Having a machine with the ability to do up to 60mph makes up for some of it’s limitations. Can’t hit it if you can’t get your gun aimed fast enough!

      bear
      Reply

      2. True that their gun was inadequate against frontal amor of PZ V’s and VI’s but they didn’t attack them head on. They used speed and ambush to attack from the flanks. They had a much higher success rate than their numbers or specs would lead you to believe.

        bear
        Reply

      3. @ Bear: HVAP rounds are a Hellcat’s best friend :D. Still not enough for frontal shots unless point blank, but definitely help out at the sides and rear. Regardless, as you correctly point out, there is no doubt the Hellcat was an effective tank destroyer which could take out even Panthers & Tigers.

        Now if I could only get a Hellcat with a 17 pounder 😀 I know the British converted the M10 that way, but I want the 17 pounder on the uber fast Hellcat. I wonder if limited availability precluded export of the M-18 to the British, or if for some odd reason the 17 pounder wouldn’t adapt to the Hellcat chassis.

        daikama
        Reply

      4. Yes, HVAP is the TD’s best friend. Even the 90mm on the M-36 Jackson was “helped” by those rounds, though my understanding was they were in short supply.

        DIdn’t know they put a 17pounder in the M10. I guess for the M-18 it would be a question of whether it would work in the turret. I was just reading that there was testing to fit a 155mm howitzer and a 90mm to the M-18 chassis but they never were completed before the war was over. since there were less than half the number of Hellcats produced than the M-10’s you might be right on the lack of availability to give to the Brits but maybe they didn’t want them? A number of M-10 units balked at getting them as it turned out.

        bear
        Reply

    4. I probably would select the following:
      JadgPanther: simply cause of it’s reliability and mobility combined with a nice gun.
      Panther G: A jack-of-all-trades, not sure if it break teh rules since i picked jadgpanther…G is awesome cause of the chin
      TigerII Henschel: The above vehicle won’t do well in urban combat so that’s where this comes in.
      M24 Chaffee: There been multiple instances where Miho needed a faster and better armed light tank.
      Comet: Another good tank…
      M26 pershing: though bad acceleration, it can pick up some decent speed to keep up with the faster tanks.Plus it does have some good range.
      BT-7: Another tank for scouting, though out-dated by 1940, i couldn’t think of any other.
      Sherman firefly:Would provide a more of a support role with a fast firing, decent gun against lighter targets.

      Tarnik
      Reply

      1. No problem picking a Jadgpanther and a Panther tank. I did. Rule is geared towards preventing picking a Panther Ausf D, Panther Ausf A, and Panther Ausf G for example. No Tiger I and Tiger II is admittedly more of a stretch, but makes it a little more challenging I think.

        FYI – RE: your comment about the IS-3, 350 or so where built starting late 1944-early 1945 so it’s allowed even if it wasn’t in combat much (at all?).

        “BT-7: Another tank for scouting, though out-dated by 1940, i couldn’t think of any other.”
        Yeah, at least for me, the first six or seven I were easy. The last pick took me a little longer.

        Another vote for the M-24 Chaffee. Can’t argue with that one bit. Hmm… maybe I should ditch the T-34/85 for an M-24. Lot’s of ground to cover in senshado.

        daikama
        Reply

      1. “Designation aside, they are not REMOTELY the same tank model. :)”

        True, which is why I said “Arguable either way, but I think this way is more in line with Oarai’s team model.” Plus, it makes things a bit more challenging.

        FWIW, my first list had a Tiger I, Tiger II, Panther Ausf G and Jadgpanther. That’s 50% German tanks/TDs. With the fearsome Jadgtiger a possible candidate as well, I might end up with 5/8 German tanks/TDs. 5/8 German vehicles starts to look more like Black Forest than Oarai to me so I added the rule. In retrospect, maybe a 50% same country limit would have been better.

        If the restriction keeps you (or anyone else) from posting a list, just add a comment like “prefer Tiger I over of xyz tank.”

        To those who already posted a list and/or commented – thanks! I hope you had a bit of fun with it, and I found the discussion informative.

        daikama
        Reply

  42. At least for me, the “Tiger” coming to the rescue isn’t manned by another crew, it’s a replacement for the damaged Panzer IV (turret is broken). Just a guess, but the “auto-club” performs a near miraculous restoration of the Oarai’s Tiger on level with the Yorktown repair prior to the Battle of Midway.

    I have no idea of official Senshado rules, but maybe you’re allowed to replace broken equipment as well as repair it during battle. I DO agree that there should not be surprise entrance by a new Oarai team.

    daikama
    Reply

  44. Just wondering, we’ve seen the British, American and now, the Russian carriers, and they’re all huge as opposed to the small Oorai carrier. We know from previous episodes’ explanation that these carriers are schools designed to instill independence to the students. Does the small size of the Oorai carrier means that Oorai is infact an old/obsolete school that needed a new carrier but rather than kept opened, it was decided better off closed?

    Lordip
    Reply

      1. Small school. SMALL school?! They live on a carrier that has mountains, forests, and rivers on the surface of it! You could probably find entire island nations with less acreage than the surface of that ship!

        Wanderer
        Reply

      2. Yeah, remember when it was revealed in the first episode that the “city” the girls were living in happened to be on a giant aircraft carrier? The scale and scope of the Ooarai carrier was tremendous!

        Certainly any ocean going vessel that can accommodate mountains, forests and rivers is by no means small. But when compared to the carriers of St. Gloria, Saunders, and the recently shown Pravda carrier, it is “relatively” small. Notice in the screen cap of the Ooarai and Pravda carriers docked that the Ooarai is actually show in its entirety and only a 1/3 to 1/2 of the Pravda carrier can be seen? Wow…just wow.

        This show has so many interesting elements, that it’s a shame that it was only scheduled for one cour. Further background and expansion on the “academy warships”, the history of Sensha-do, more screen time with all of the characters would be so welcomed. The girls of the automobile club look like a fun bunch. Please, please, please let there be a second season…and relatively soon too!

        RifuloftheWest
        Reply

      3. Yeah, and every other school carrier we’ve seen absolutely dwarfs the Oarai carrier. Usually by more than a factor of 2. So it’s a relatively small school. But still has a ton of overhead in keeping that ship running.

        Highway
        Reply

  45. The heroines fell for the “Stalingrad” trap, where they were too confident of victory to aggressively engage Pravda’s baiting force within the confines of a town, where tanks lose some effectiveness in an urban combat setting.

    The rest of Pravda’s company pulled a double envelopment from the flanks to the rear of Oorai, and force the girls to hold up in the church.

    Eerily similar to what happened to the German 6th Army and part of the 4th Army at the real Battle of Stalingrad in the winter of 1942, where the Germans overextended their lines and were funneled into Stalingrad and the Volga river by the Soviet 62nd Army. The Soviets forced the Germans to fight an urban battle in winter, and then launched a two pronged counterattack 50 miles behind the German lines, eventually surrounding the two German armies and forcing them to surrender in January of 1943.

    Jirokun
    Reply

  46. well, my “all stars” 8-team for Ooarai would be:
    -Panther G
    -Firefly
    -Comet
    -T-34-85
    -Jagdpanther
    -M-26
    -Tiger 2
    -JS-3

    first four deliver mix of mobility, armor and firepower, representing peaks of medium tank development from major players. Jagdpanther replaces StuG, and the last 3 are peak heavy tanks of the major players (UK didnt have a late war equivalent really, with Churchill being dedicated infantry support tank)

    ewok40k
    Reply

  48. I think the writers may be making the differences in strength ridiculous on purpose. My reasoning is based on the scene with Maho and her mom, Shiho Nishizumi. The mom was stating that Miho’s actions were harming the reputation of Nishizumi by her ridiculous actions. Well, what ridiculous actions? Maybe winning with a ragtag bunch of tanks and untrained crews against numerically superior schools? We don’t know how they won against Anzio but it’s been quick thinking by Miho and insane luck to win, or almost win, against impossible odds. Shiho must see that as an affront to her schools philosophy and training methods. I’m hoping the final confrontation is on more equal terms because Shiho doesn’t want it to appear that the only reason Black Forest wins is because of overwhelming numbers instead of the schools philosophy.

    bear
    Reply

  49. Something that hasn’t been mentioned is what they can use the 3 hours to repair. Yes, the StuG’s track is off, but is there any hope of fixing it in the time they have, even considering that the Turtle team retracked their 38(t) in apparently a lot less time in the Saint Gloriana match. A similar question is repairing the turret on the PzIV, although that would seem to be a lot less possible.

    So would it be stretching the boundaries of credibility too much to have them field repair it in less than 3 hours?

    Highway
    Reply

    1. Wow, not a maintenance guy, but Turtle just threw their track off as I remember. The StuG took a shot on theirs. If they have the links to repair it and can get to the track (I think it was left outside the door of the church) maybe. I was thinking that the loss of the track will have some bearing on what Maho does though. She’s also got a busted turret on Anglerfish to worry about.

      bear
      Reply

    2. Very good point about the rules as this issue significantly impacts Oarai’s ability to win.

      I do think its quite reasonable for the StuG III track to be repaired assuming no damage to suspension, road wheels or drive sprockets. Conversely, I think it’s almost certain that the Panzer IV turret could not be repaired in a credible manner with one exception as detailed below.

      Fixing the turret requires the tank to be in a repair shop with hoists & other tools unless such tools can somehow be transported. Assuming not, I can’t see Oarai being permitted to drive the tank off the playing field for repairs. Plus, that would eat up a lot of time. So the only credible way I see the turret repaired is if Oarai’s maintenance crew is (a) permitted full access during the cease-fire, (b) has the ability to bring whatever equipment is needed, and (c) the damage isn’t so extensive as to require hours for repair.

      The last part raises the question: To what extent, if any, maintenance crews permitted make repairs during a match? In EP 05, when Yakuri(?) said “They fixed the track” upon the 38(t) rejoining the fight, I took “they” to mean the SC. However, that is not necessarily true. I can’t see Anzu making repairs, and Yuzuko and Momo don’t seem very mechanically inclined. Maybe the auto-club was allowed to make repairs back then because there was no risk of combat.

      Perhaps unrelated, but thinking about this some more makes it difficult to understand the “Tiger spoiler” that was mentioned in last EP’s comments. As much as I’d love to see Miho & team Anger Fish tear into Pravda with that 88mm gun, I find it difficult to think of a credible reason for allowing a tank swap during a match.

      Really, this all comes down to Pravda’s arrogant and stupid decision to allow three hours. Offering surrender (especially to avoid injury) is all fine and good, but give Oarai five, ten, maybe fifteen minutes. Three hours? Did some store suddenly offer a huge, first come first serve sale on jam? What ever repairs or even tank swaps do occur, Pravda has only Katyuska to blame. For Pravda to loss solely due to Katyuska’s decision after she “thanked” Miho for helping Pravda win last year would be a nice, ironic twist of fate.

      daikama
      Reply

      1. I agree that repairing the turret is pretty much out of the question. The track repair is problematic. Most of it’s outside of the building. Assuming Pravda would even let them bring the track inside, and the damage is only to the track , they would have to hoist it up to get it connected to the drive sprockets and try to drive it onto the treads, then reconnect the links. Seems damn near impossible in the time available.

        bear
        Reply

  50. Ups, meant to post this in this episode but posted it in the wrong one before.

    Commie does it again…

    The volleyball club is Ahiru which refers to the domestic kind of duck. Discipline committee team is Kamo which refers to the wild kind of duck. Even a search the ja.wiki can give you the answer.

    Commie translated Kamo into a goose, which is wrong, Kamo is a duck and not a goose which is another family/subfamily (just like how a duck, goose and swan are different, or a quail, chicken and a turkey are different) Hiryuu fansub decided to go with Mallard which is more reasonable since it’s one species of wild duck and close enough to the avatar they have on their armbands.

    Kamui04
    Reply

    1. Thank you. When I looked at the insignia on the tank it looked like a Mallard so I couldn’t figure out how they got “goose” out of that unless it was a term that could be translated multiple ways.

      bear
      Reply

    2. Kamui04 – thanks. I should know by now not to trust Commie (used “goose” in one of my posts :<) – especially after they screwed up McAullife quote. Even I can tell Momo says "Nuts" only.

      Hiryuu has "Mallard" but that I don't think that's quite right. Apart from "tankwando", the other issue I have with Hiryuu despite the better TL is that they seem kind of liberal at times with their phrasing, I'll have to DL Horrible to compare. At any rate, unless there's some underlying reason for using the two types of duck, poor decision on GundP writers IMO. Goose, swan, platypus – whatever, just make sure it's readily distinguishable from the other team mascots.

      A small request if you don't mind. In EP 02 around 14:50-14:55, what does Momo say when the Type 10 tank backs over the principals car? TLs are all over the place, and I can't figure it out. Thanks.

      daikama
      Reply

      1. Well, over the radio, the only time it matters to them, “kamo” is a lot different from “ahiru”, so whether the two animals look alike or not to spectators or the show’s audience or anyone else doesn’t really matter.

        Highway
        Reply

      3. Hiryuu too liberal? If anything, I find Hiryuu’s subs edging on too literal. They are still better than Commie since Commie tends to take a more liberal approach and instead rips a lot of context out. (Panzerfahren is still stupid). This is notable on the battle with Gloriana, Commies subs had me confused when Miho spouted strategies and orders but with Hiruyuu I could understand what Miho was ordering.

        fragb85
        Reply

      4. Putting the duck vs goose thing aside, seems the roles reversed this week. I didn’t find Commie making other mistakes this episode. But on the other hand this time Hiryuu made some mistakes like missing the line about sending them to Siberia for 25 rubles, same with Horrible. What’s worse was that Crunchyroll for some reason had to cut out the girls singing Katyusha, maybe because of licensing.

        The thing with being literal or liberal is how much can you be without sounding too awkward in the language you’re translating into.

        Another example of how Commie being too liberal misses details. In all their subs they omit japanese honorifics. In episode 2 with the instructor, she’s introduced as Chouno Ami Ichii. Since Commie omits honorifics those watching their version will miss this little detail that Ichii is JSDF equivalent of a Captain.

        Kamui04
        Reply

      5. Scratch my comment about Commie not having other errors besides the goose vs duck. After the Panzer IV ausf F2 upgrade is shown, Miho asks who is going to crew the B1. Even if you don’t know japanese you can hear her voice tone in that sentence and know it’s a question. Commie translated it as Miho saying “We have found a team for the Renault”

        Kamui04
        Reply

      7. @fragb85: Maybe “liberal” isn’t the right word. Perhaps phrasing is more accurate. It’s kind of hard to explain without an example and not worth watching EPs just to find an example. I’m with you on Commie being harder to watch – especially if you don’t manually select the “all” English “no fun” subs in lieu of the 1/2 German 1/2 English default. Made that mistake a couple of times.

        LOL – you view “Panzerfahren” the way I view “tankwando.” I don’t know why one group never thought to just put a TL note defining “senshado” in EP 01 and maybe EP02. After that, just leave it untranslated. It’s not that hard to figure out anyway.

        ——————

        @ Kamui04: “@daikama about your ep2 question, Momo says: Potechi (ポテチ) japanese for potato chips.”

        Thank you… and you’re kidding me! Point for Horrible Subs. They got it right, but it seemed so weird for that to be here reply. FYI, Commie had “Und Matsch” (hidden TL comment said it wasn’t clear) while Hiryuu had “Squashed” and no TL note.

        daikama
        Reply

      8. @daikama well Momo’s comment might be because the Type 10 left the poor F40 as flat as a potato chip. Which I would question if it would be really flattened since a lot of the bodywork and chassis is made from carbon fiber and other composites, which isn’t malleable as metal and rather shatters into pieces when it breaks.

        Well seems like the best sub for Ep8 would be a mix of the three groups. Each group missed something or made mistakes here and there. But going back to commie they missed the type of shell when Miho asks Hana to shoot the snow, she asks to use a Ryuudan 榴弾 which is High-Explosive shell.

        Kamui04
        Reply

      9. @Kamui04 – Wanted to say thanks again for answering my question and providing feedback on the episode’s subs in general. Much appreciated.

        RE: The F-40. True. Carbon Fiber indeed tends to go “crunch” and break into pieces when damaged. So the “potato chip” analogy makes sense, but still a little tangental IMO. Even so, I still prefer the actual phrase in the subs rather than a loose interpretation, or worse, something in another language (same phrase used in both versions of Commie subs O.o). On another topic, maybe the school is in financial trouble because the principal buys extremely expensive sports cars. What HS principal has money for an F-40!?

        Also appreciate the info regarding the HE shell. Commie indeed has just “shell” while Hiryuu has “explosive shell” and Horrible “HE shell.” So Horrible is the most accurate, but I wonder if some non-tank/military type viewers knew what “HE” means.

        I’m sure I’ll end up making my own GuP subs for upcoming BD releases – probably use Horrible as the base. I plan to cross check vs Hiryuu (maybe Commie too), but will definitely incorporate your comments.

        daikama
        Reply

      10. @daikama
        I agree with you here. While I must admit I do prefer “tankwando” over “Panzerfahren” (maybe because German is my native language and thus Panzerfahren for me is… well… Panzerfahren… *shrug*), I agree with keeping “Senshado”.

        It’s obviously some kind of martial art in this world, like Taekwondo, Aikido, Karate, Judo, Kendo and Kyudo… I don’t see those names being translated for international use.

        Kyral
        Reply

  51. I do agree that the pravda had horrible aim. But the shot from the T-34 hit the panzerIV’s mantel thus protecting it from beign knocked out.
    The tracks for the STuG III can not be recovered cause it was out at the entrance, meaning can not be repaired unless tellign pravda, you’re not giving up. The lee is useless, teh gun that could do something(75mm) was destroyed, literally, the barrel came right off.
    What remains? A useless 37mm gun that can barely penetrate the T-34’s rear…
    i was thinking the smash a hole in the back and leave the STuGIII to blow up anythign that tries to get a look on what’s going on. Of course the M3lee can better off donating it’s parts sicne it can’t do much anyways. -_-
    Also the thing is, the B1 way too slow so they might as well cover the others so they can escape. 😛

    And i only saw 2 people that posted here saying they enjoyed teh part where they sang katyusha. Couldn’t sttop replaying that part. Oh i also never payed attention if they added the turret basket on the PanzerIV.

    Tarnik
    Reply

    1. On which part M3 Lee can donate with? The ring of the track maybe? maybe donate to StuG III since her track were destroyed (I’m glad StuG III track doesn’t destroy beyond repair) but I doubt track M3 can be use on StuG III…

      just my opinion only.

      SgtKurtz
      Reply

      1. Exactly what I wast thinking! If the StuG III track can’t be fixed, somehow use the M3 Lee’s track as a replacement. You may be right about the tracks not being compatible, but tank crews did a lot of on-field modifications. If it’s just a drive sprocket issue, maybe you could swap those as well.

        Modifying my comment above about trying to find a way out of this. If the track swap worked, I’d then use the disabled and empty M3 Lee (no point in risking injury to the Rabbit team) to block the front door and partially shield the StuG III and Panzer IV as they provide covering fire for the other escaping tanks before fleeing themselves. May not work, but I can’t think of anything else.

        daikama
        Reply

  52. For me it’s likely that oarai will lose in one battle
    cause the council team to lose something in exchange for closing the school

    it may the case to introduce another new team for replace council team?

    black
    Reply

  53. I seem to be missing something here. The Crunchyroll stream I’m watching has no singing. Presumably it happens somewhere between 13:06 (Uraah!) and the scene cut to Our Girls (at 13:14 on mine), but I don’t see it (and I don’t see where your jpg 20 and 21 come from, either.

    Eadwacer
    Reply

  54. THIS JUST IN! CRUNCHYROLL FAILS THE INTERNET!

    They cut the Katyusha song scene out of the episode they aired. I don’t know what possessed them to do such a thing, but you DO NOT screw with stuff like that.

    Wanderer
    Reply

    3. That’s rather sad… trimming out one of the best parts of the episode? Damn.

      On the plus side, at least the scene is floating around all over youtube for those who missed it.

      Katyusha is an old enough folk song that it shouldn’t really cause any licensing issues, at least no more than the average anime insert song would. The possible reasons that leaves are not exactly promising…

      Moomba
      Reply

      1. A few folk on my timeline poked around, and apparently, due to a technically, Katyusha CAN’T be used in the US:

        Matt Levy, IP litigator
        Assuming you’re asking about U.S. copyright, the song was probably not originally covered by U.S. copyright, because the Soviet Union and the U.S. had no treaty regarding copyright until the 70’s, and I’m assuming there was no copyright registration or publication with proper notice in 1938. Under the Uruguay Rounds Agreement Act, which took effect in the early 90’s, any Russian song that would have been covered by copyright but for the failure to follow U.S. formalities had the copyright restored. (See 17 U.S.C. 104A.)

        The constitutionality of that provision is currently being considered by the U.S. Supreme Court in Golan v. Holder. A decision is expected this Spring.

        The short answer is that it’s probably currently protected by copyright. I have no idea who the current copyright owner is or what licensing arrangements the owner makes.

        Myssa Rei
        Reply

      2. Turns out it’s another one of those songs that people commonly think is a traditional song only to find out it was modern.

        Wiki already has a reference to GuP in the Katyusha entry and has the following:

        It was composed in 1938 by Matvei Blanter with lyrics from Mikhail Isakovsky.

        bear
        Reply

    7. Well at least you are lucky. CR is not availabe in my country (blocked), so it “force” me to use the only way to enjoy new anime : p2p. But yesterday, the 32GB microsd in my cheapo tablet pc that I use for p2p and watching is screwed up. I lost 95% of my fall collection. Re-download is not an option. All I can do now is reading Randomc for reminiscence of old episodes 🙁

      vrr4141
      Reply

  55. i guess student council team will sacrifice they tank in order to make safe passage to oorai team to escape.They have to because they school is on the line to closed.anko tank will operate like stug III mako is professional drift and history team will abandon they tank (stug III)and join clone team tank (renault B1 Bis) temporary all gun will operate.student council team have small tank and perfectly to make confusion among enemy tank.i am guessing i am guessing nothing more hehe…

    syncmaster793df IamMonitor xD
    Reply

  56. could it be possible under this situation that oarai will ask for a “personal tank duel” with
    Russian team as a stake for “down on knee defeated”
    because most of oarai team’s moral is down after know the truth about their school will be close if they lose?

    black
    Reply

  57. Great episode. Especially, of course, the Katushka song. 25,000 views of the song alone on Youtube in the last 2 days. This may be the best orchestration of “Katushka” ever recorded. Russians like it. Usually, that song is either accompanied by accordions, or sung by some big military group.

    No idea how Oorai gets out of the trap.

    Pravda seems more prepared for cold weather, but they still do the miniskirt thing. Their military jackets over ski pants and boots would have looked good and send the message that Pravda is hard-core about winter war. As the history team points out, “When I hear the words snow, Russia, and war…”, and mention Stalingrad, they’re remembering that the Germans went into that war in summer gear, expecting a short war. Exactly the mistake Oorai just made.

    oldskoolpunk
    Reply

  59. Questo è il blog giusto per tutti coloro che vogliono capire qualcosa su questo argomento. Trovo quasi difficile discutere con te (cosa che io in realtà vorrei… haha). Avete sicuramente dato nuova vita a un tema di cui si è parlato per anni. Grandi cose, semplicemente fantastico!

    alessio
    Reply

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