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「激戦です！」 (Gekisen Desu!)
“A Fierce Battle!”
Ah Girls und Panzer, how I have missed thee. In one single episode, it reminds us why it was the best show of last year and completely blows away anything else that has aired since. Like holy shit that was a good episode. Manly tears were shed. It wasn’t even the finale and it still managed to ramp up tension to new levels and I remain baffled how it can continue to do so every episode without fail. At this rate, the finale next week is going to be one hell of an experience!
I love the use of tactics – how Oarai manages to even the odds ever so slightly through clever planning and brilliant teamwork. So far this has been the most tactically heavy battle since the series started, with Miho full of ingenious plans to throw off the opposing team. Smoke was a fairly easy one to guess, but I’m sure I wasn’t the only one surprised to see Oarai towing the Tiger P to make up for its slower speed! I marvelled at some of their more daring strategies – this was certainly an episode in which the Hetzer shined as the student council showed us exactly how it’s meant to be used! Watching them infiltrate the enemy lines was nothing short of hilarious, especially seeing how Kuromori reacted!
This episode really drives home the reasons why I’ve been looking forward to the eventual showdown between Miho and Maho. Both grew up together, trained together, and seem to know exactly what the other is thinking and how best to counter them. While Erika wanted to go all out right off the bat and waste shells, Maho easily read Miho’s move and held her back – in fact, she seems to have anticipated almost every move Oarai would make! On the other hand, Miho knows exactly what to use against her former school to throw them into disarray and allow an escape and momentary reprieve. There’s a lot of back and forth as the two push against each other. At this point, I don’t want to make any solid guesses as to which one will emerge victorious!
Of course, it wouldn’t be Girls und Panzer without those spectacular moments that completely take your breath away. It might not be quite at the level of Pravda and their use of Katyusha, but seeing Kuromori in formation while Panzerlied played in the background was almost as amazing. Seeing how strongly the other teams all root for Oarai now was also beautiful – Miho makes friends of those she faces, not enemies. To be honest, I kind of expected some sort of repeat of Miho’s experiences in her previous final match – it just seemed like it would be fitting to bring it back now when it’s been a running theme for so long. It was a tough choice to make, but given how well we know her, I’d say it was quite obvious which decision she would come to. Watching her leap from tank to tank in order to save the Rabbit team was awesome. Miho is pretty fucking badass.
We end this penultimate episode quite nicely. I’m a little surprised that Miho didn’t anticipate a trap when urban warfare was always the logical choice to try and even out the odds between the two teams and Maho would undoubtedly have picked up on that. But then again, who expects to find a Maus hiding out away from combat? Watching it roll out was terrifying and it’s plainly obvious that Oarai have no chance against it given that everything bounces and it has enough firepower to blow them away. As I see it, all they can really do is ignore the Maus and go for the flag tank (man they were lucky the Maus didn’t end up being the flag tank) – taking it down with their firepower would be somewhat unreasonable!
tl;dr: @MoombaDS – #Garupan returns and blows every other show away. Kind of like a Maus!
Random thoughts:
- Is that a copy of Moeyo Sensha Gakkou I see there?
- The mechanics were clearly the best choice for the Tiger P!
- It was a little sad to see the history team go out like that, but also a little funny watching their shell bounce off harmlessly!
- Poor Erika.
- I can’t get over just how insane the Hetzer was this week!
Note: I will be away for a little over ten days starting Friday so the finale post will be delayed until my return. Thanks for understanding!
Preview
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The obvious question here: WHERE THE HELL DID THAT MAUS COME FROM?! It should’ve been in the starting grid alongside the rest of KMM tanks and not be such a surprise! In the legendary words of Misato Katsuragi: That’s just BS!
Miho clearly don’t follow the book and that means the german armored corps are in disarray. The issue here is how to deal with the Maus. Not even the Tiger P’s 88 cannon could dent it going face to face. It’s just not fair having such and advantage.
But Miho have done the impossible possible up to now. Another miracle may be on it’s way next week.
I’ve looked back at episode 10 and we never see a full shot of KMM’s full formation. Not even once. It would be worthless to field a Maus in the open anyway since its slow and unbalanced. Its practically a mobile fortress so putting it in a entrenched position was the right thing to do.
For the meta reason its to build tension so that our protagonists and the audience, can effectively **** their pants when the reveal of the Maus comes. GuP is very good at that, it knows when to play its cards right.
To deal with the Maus…
First we must know its
weak points…
Armor? No
Fire “Fist punch” Power? No
Agility? Yes
Speed? Yes
Weight? Yes
Hiding? Impossible 🙂
Well, this MAUS is a Weight Monster. He was so heavy, no bridge would take him. So he is only operative on Firm grounds… Did i hear Swap or other mud alike grounds?.. Possibility to get Maus stuck there is High
But, there is still one Big Problem… You will run out of Ammo before you can Penetrate their Armor.
So my best Solution. Run!!!! out of his Fire Range!! He is a One Hit Kill Monster!!
Or “Tease” him so much, that he run out of Gas. This Monster needs a lot of Gas to move
For Experts: When a Tank, run out of Gas. Do he complete stop? i mean, not even Turret movement or Fire Shells? Or have they Batteries to Fire Shells? So a complete Power Dry MAUS is not beaten, but he is out of the Game.
Btw, the Maus was never Complete in Time. It was nearly complete Build, but there was no Test run or whatever. because the “prototype” Engines was to Weak to move this Monster. And the 2nd Maus was only the Chassis build.
So the Maus run out of Time, for serious Battle action
For Experts: When a Tank, run out of Gas. Do he complete stop? i mean, not even Turret movement or Fire Shells? Or have they Batteries to Fire Shells? So a complete Power Dry MAUS is not beaten, but he is out of the Game.
WOT player probably know more than me, but I’m sure you can fire shells from the Maus even if it runs out of gas.
The problem is turret traverse. That is one BIG turret. Power traverse can be electric, hydraulic, or even running direct off the engine. There is a battery (not like you hand crank to start a tank), so an electric power traverse would still work, but I wouldn’t think for long. Takes a lot of power to move that turret.
However, AFAIK, all tanks also have manual traverse in case the power traverse fails (and also to fine tune aiming). There’s a crank the gunner and/or loader uses to turn the turret. We say that in EP 09 with the Panzer IV. Problem for the Maus is that it’s such a huge turret, manual traverse must be very slow and tiring. Oh, I imagine the all of the above applies for vertical adjustments as well.
tl:dr = yes, the Maus can fire shots if it runs out of gas, but it’s ability to turn the turret/aim it’s gun is severely restricted.
Maus – outmaneuver it. Go for the mobility kill. Hit the tracks. Get it bogged down in muddy terrain. get it stuck between buildings. Saturate it’s main gun with MG fire and hope some bullets get inside. Even fe bullet sinside the barrel when it shoots should damage the gun for good. Get a tank with good depressing angle of a main gun on a building somehow and shoot top armor. Also, Tiger-P should be able to penetrate it’s rear armor, especially on such short distance.
“WHERE THE HELL DID THAT MAUS COME FROM?!”
“It must have taken some kind of tactical geniu…CREEEEEEEED!!!!“
*ahem* 40K joke and slight delay in watching aside…
– The Student Council team using their Hetzer to ambush and generally troll Black Forest Peak… “Hetzers gonna hetz,” indeed. XD
– “Popping smoke!” Smoke launchers…never leave your local tank depot without them…
– Fixing the Tiger P on the move…that takes balls of adamantium.
– Track reliability seems to be a major issue with the Jagdpanther and the KT… (LOL at the Jagdpanther crew complaining how heavy the track is after fixing it…only to have their tread broken again by the “Trollzer.”)
– That camo scheme on the Maus reminds me of the Tiger Ace camo scheme in CoH: Tales of Valor, which is brilliant considering that the Maus was being tested close to the Eastern Front (before capture by the advancing Red Army) and that ToV‘s Tiger Ace crew made a name for themselves on the same front.
– The GuP rendition of “Panzerlied” playing… Kuuu!!! >_<
Well, despite Miho not making it to this year's ISML Regular Season, it's still good to see this episode after a grueling wait.
P.S.: Don't worry Moomba, you're not the only one having RL stuff to deal with. Take your time.
Quite a predicament they’re in, and while Miho has so far been compared to Major Winters, General Rommel, and the like, I say if she somehow wins this, there may be a new person in the real world and fiction I can honestly say she can share a nickname with.
Nishizumi “Miracle” Miho. Although that might be taking it too far, but I doubt Admiral Yang Wen-li would complain.
They are still vastly outnumbered. This can only end one of two ways… they take out the other teams flag tank ending the battle or:
They lose valiantly against the much stronger school but people are so moved they decide to send lots of kids to their school thereby ending them having to close the school.
Yep, the livewatch threads pretty much exploded in variations of “ITS A MAUS! FSK! FSK! FSK!” when the behemoth backed up into the alleyway. You can almost FEEL the smug look on the Panzer III crew when it did too.
Still, the Student Council team pretty much stole the show prior to that. Hetzers gonna hetz indeed!
Facing up against a tank several tier above yours is always very scary. All you can hope to survive that is to retreat as fast as you can.
Amen! I have missed this show so much.
For those who ask how they deal with the Maus, the answer is quite simple: they don’t. Run away, get out of its line of fire, take advantage of the fact that it’s a big, heavy, slow, unwieldy, lumbering beast stuck in a city that’s too small for it to maneuver in properly, and the fact that it’s not the flag tank so they have no reason to fight it at all. If they get a chance, let the Hetzer do their thing and take out its treads, but even if they can’t the thing will probably track itself if it tries to chase them down. Or burn out its engine. Or have the road collapse underneath it. The Maus was a prototype remember. Only two hulls were ever built, and it was never fully completed. The flaws were never properly ironed out of the design, so what you’ve got here is a thing that sounds good on paper, but has all sorts of serious problems in the field.
First thought on seeing the Maus: HOLY **** its an actual combat ready Maus!
Second thought on seeing the Maus: How did they field a Maus!? (There are only two of those tanks that exist)
On hindsight KMM shot themselves on the foot by fielding heavy armor and tank destroyers. All that firepower isn’t needed for Oorai and they aren’t very mobile or adaptable especially for tank destroyers with no turrets. This allows Miho to exploit it with hit and run tactics. The Hetzer was right at home here, especially with Anzu, the master of trolling. Seeing the the Hetzer just troll the entire battle formation and confuse them was hilarious. Of course this advantage is gone when the Maus appears since now they are trapped between fighting KMM’s heavy armor outside the city, or face the Maus inside the city.
GuP is rare show, one that knows how to properly escalate its tension thus making it more exiting and leave the audience wanting more. Its too bad there’s only one more episode, still its going a heck of a finale.
Miho = I Win, with my Comrades!
Maho (Older Sister) = I Win, whatever it Takes!
Miho, she dont wanna Lose Comrades in Battle
But Maho would sacrifice some Comrades if it needed to Win
Thats the little difference between them. Or Why their Mother dont like Miho’s Way of “Panzerfahren”
Funny Moments:
Tiger (p)… “Lass den Tiger in die Raus!” (Let the Tiger inside you out!)
That came into my Mind, when it destroyed the Bridge!. A Race Tank 🙂 Well It’s a Porsche Engine 🙂
and you can really see, where the Budget flown. Very Good Animated so far. even the Dust in the Air from the Shell fight on the Top of the Mountain was very accurate
I hope the Last will be the same…
Anyone knows if there is a shining Hope of S2?
The BDs have sold in the range of 30,000 copies each so far, which is mammoth. (5,000 is considered a successful series.)
If they keep selling like that, a sequel is virtually certain.
Saving the Usagi’s will be a key factor for Ooarai’s victory.
I agree with that as well – I think the end card was a hint. Plus, it would prove all the more that Miho’s decision to save Team Rabbit was the right thing to do (in contrast to following the Nishizumi style).
I can see of three ways that happens.
Show Spoiler ▼
The Maus is unimportant. It’s a huge obstacle, but beating it won’t win the match. And it’s impossible for Oarai to truly defeat it anyway. They may be able to take out its treads, or let it trap itself, but they can’t kill it. Usagi-san team needs to be the key to victory, not just to beating the Maus.
@Wanderer: The Maus is unimportant. It’s a huge obstacle, but beating it won’t win the match. And it’s impossible for Oarai to truly defeat it anyway. They may be able to take out its treads, or let it trap itself, but they can’t kill it. Usagi-san team needs to be the key to victory, not just to beating the Maus.
The Maus is “unimportant” only to the extent it stays out of the battle, and I highly doubt it will sit idly by when the other 15 BFP tanks arrive. Right now Oarai has the numerical advantage, and IMO, they need exploit that. “Truly defeating it” (i.e. disable/disqualify) isn’t the issue. Removing it from affecting the battle is. Rending it immobile (ideally in an out of the way location) so that it can’t participate further is just as good as disabling it.
Oarai has already lost two tanks – one they can ill afford (StuG III). Rendering the Maus ineffective and taking out the Panzer III not only helps even the large odds against them, if just a little, but also provides a big morale boost to Oarai morale while at the same time should sow some seeds of doubt and uncertainty amongst BFP. I wouldn’t be surprised if Oarai would be the first to render the Maus effectively useless.
The Maus has mostly rendered itself ineffective simply by it’s choice of location. Had Oarai retreated when they first saw it, it would have got none of them and been unable to catch them in the city. In the open, with a clear line of fire, there’d be no way for them to escape it despite how lumbering it is. In the tight confines it’s trapped itself in, however, its actual threat is minimal if they’ll just stop sitting in front of it and MOVE. It can’t maneuver or even rotate its turret outside of intersections. They can run rings around it, or just plain ignore it if they want, because it can’t catch them once they stop sitting there like targets. Run the Hetzer around behind it, take out its treads while it’s stuck in a street like it is now, and its effective threat level drops to nothing. Or just run away and leave it completely alone, and it becomes something that’s only dangerous if you’re not paying attention.
@Wanderer:
Had Oarai retreated when they first saw it, it would have got none of them and been unable to catch them in the city.
I agree for the most part and posted as much. The first thing Oarai needs to do is get the hell out of there and regroup. I also stated that I thought the StuG III was needlessly lost. It was hard to tell, but I think at least 5 Oarai tanks entered the alley. Backing up five or more tanks in a narrow alley takes time so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to lose the front tank (B1Bis). The real mistake IMO was blindly chasing the Panzer III.
———————–
Or just run away and leave it completely alone, and it becomes something that’s only dangerous if you’re not paying attention.
Oarai may not be able to dictate the flow of battle so that they are able to completely avoid the Maus at all times. Furthermore, “paying attention” doesn’t mean they will always spot the Maus in time to avoid attack. What if Maho sits the flag tank next to the Maus? Oarai can’t just ignore it then.
There are FIFTEEN more BFP tanks on the way. When they get there, Oarai will be hard pressed to “pay attention” to those as well as the Maus and Panzer III in a maze like urban environment. Paying attention doesn’t = knowing where the Maus will be at all times. In the normal course of evading the myriad of Tigers, Panthers and TDs, IMO it’s not all that unlikely one or more Oarai tanks unexpectedly and unknowingly enter the Maus’ gun sights. Ex. Cross in front of alley were Maus lurking, or worse turn into an alley to avoid incoming fire and wind up starring down the Maus’ gun barrel. Either way, BAM 128mm of instant elimination.
There’s no doubt the Maus is hampered by the urban environment. However, I don’t think its threat to Oarai is reduced to almost nothing because of said battle conditions as you seem to suggest. I think the Maus is a threat – maybe not as much as a Panther/etc., but a threat nonetheless, and not one Oarai can simply ignore or automatically avoid by its own volition.
————————–
Run the Hetzer around behind it, take out its treads while it’s stuck in a street like it is now, and its effective threat level drops to nothing.
That’s what I’ve repeatedly advocated all along (though I didn’t specifically mention the Hetzer). You seem to suggest that the Maus is no big deal – Oarai can either avoid it or outmaneuver it to the point of “running rings around it” thus making a rear track shot almost mundane. If that’s the case, then why NOT take out the Maus along with the Panzer III NOW – before the other 15 BFP tanks shows up? I don’t see any downside to this unless the Maus is more dangerous than you suggest. Lastly, now that I think about it, if a tank is immobilized beyond field repair I believe that = disqualified (“white flag”). In short, I now believe Oarai can “truly take out” the Maus by sufficiently damaging its tracks/suspension.
I cried manly tears simply by seeing the animne title pop back up to be watched, lol.
If they could at least knock out the barrel of the turret, that could still take out the Maus out of action with it unable to fire on them, especially given nothing they have would be able to do anywhere near enough damage to its armor.
In all honesty, keeping the Maus in the little maze is good, and section off someone to go after the flag. Sounds like a job for the Type 89. Give the Maus some cheese to chase while they go after the HVT. Then again, that can already been part of BFP’s plan so I guess I’ll wait for what deus ex machina will come up next week.
Glory to the commander!
Its very nice to see how loyal Oaria’s team is to Miho now. However I kind of wonder why they didn’t finish off the tanks that they messed up, it seemed better to take them out instead of just stopping them for a while.
Also no matter what anyone else says I think the whole Maus thing was cheating.
From the moment DreamRiser started I felt like I was coming home after a long, hard journey. I really did miss this show. Waiting almost three months was tough, but director Tsutomu Mizushima kept true to his word and spent the time to produced a truly great episode.
Like everyone else, “What the ****!? A MAUS!!!” It is any wonder Black Forest Peak (“BFP”) has been so successful? For the finals, BFP fielded 1 Tiger I, 2 Tiger IIs, 6 Panthers, 6 Jadgpanzer IVs, 1 Jadgpanther, 1 Jadgtiger, 1 Ferdinand, 1 Panzer III (just to play “fair” LOL), and a freakin’ PANZER VIII MAUS. 9/10 Championships? Please. With that line up you
couldshould win that many times using the Homer Simpson Style as well as the Nishizumi Style.Miho again displays her tactical genius. Using smoke screens was a brilliant idea and probably the only legitimate way for Oarai to escape BFP’s trap. I also thought Miho idea to tow the Tiger(P) up the hillside was a clever “outside the box” thinking. Certainly neither Maho nor Erika expected that and it allowed Oarai to make better use of terrain advantages. Well done Miho! Oarai may not be winning the actual battle, but I think it’s pretty clear they are winning the intellectual one.
Tactics aside, watching Miho, after some support from her teammates, rescue a (slowly) sinking Team Rabbit was a nice touching moment amidst all the battle scenes. Erika might think it’s naive, but I have a strong suspicion that Miho’s decision will play a crucial role in the outcome (i.e. Team Rabbit will make some critical contribution in the end – perhaps helping to defeat the Maus). There was no reason to abandon the M3 under those circumstances – Oarai needs all the tanks it can get. Perhaps most importantly, Miho’s actions gave the Oarai team a big morale boost. Nothing but win here IMO.
Team Turtle continues to impress. Previously, Anzu & Co. held off & disabled part of Pravda’s pursuit force allowing the rest of the team to break free. Now, they again help the rest of the teams break out of a tough situation by disrupting BFP’s encroaching formation. Obviously, Miho is Oarai’s MVP, but it’s hard to ignore Team Turtle’s contributions to Oarai’s success. Hetzer’s got to hetz indeed. Too bad they didn’t take a shot at the flag tank early on in their first ambush when it was in the Hetzer’s sights. Then again, who would want the battle to end so soon?
I absolutely loved all the cameos of the other schools. They made a great episode even better IMO. Katyusha was especially cute. Showing boxes of K rations next to the Sander’s Team is just one more example of GuP’s outstanding attention to detail. Excellent decision by the director & staff to include them rather than only focus on Oarai and BFP.
Though minor, there were a couple of frustrating moments for me. First, Miho, bad enough against Pravda, but please don’t fall for the same obvious trap twice. Second, yes Yukari, a Maus an awe inspiring sight, but the correct response upon seeing one is to RUN AWAY!. The poor Mallard Team was doomed from the start, but there’s no reason IMO for Team Hippo to be lost as well. There was more than enough time to escape. Besides, Miho should not have let all the tanks blindly enter the same alleyway.
Whatever – all that matters is that GuP is back even if it’s just for two episodes. It was hard to wait this long, but worth it. Bring on episode 12 and season two!
Well, Miho perhaps think to get rid of these Panzer 3 Scout as Fast as Possible. Knowing that the Main Force is behind them, they wanted to disable their “Eye”. So with this Eye, there are no surprises anymore
But the Maus.. Nobody had this on their Screen… Because in this Tournament are only WW2 Tanks allowed.. But Maus. Sure it was a “prototype” that was not build to the end.
Perhaps this “surprise” is a Thank you!! for the Fans of the Anime. a full functional Maus in Combat!!… Sugoi!!!
But he took 2 Tanks out.. Not so Sogoi….
Oh I’m absolutely sure the Maus was a surprise/thank you for the shows tank-otakus. That’s plainly clear just by reading some of the anime board discussions. TONS of comments about that. It WAS a surprise and it was very cool to see.
That being said, Miho was on the BFP team last year, and given the reactions of Darjeeling and Katyusha, it does not seem that the Maus was added to BFP’s tank line up just this year. If so, Miho should have known that BFP had a Maus. Given her estimation of BRPs line up in EP 10 (kind of a troll), maybe she didn’t think they would use it. Regardless, the Panzer III was the least of their worries. Certainly worth taking out, but doing so in a prudent manner which means not blindly chasing it. Miho and maybe others (ex. Yukari) should have been able to count BFP’s numbers. The Panzer III was 19 = one more left.
But he took 2 Tanks out.. Not so Sogoi….
That’s my biggest problem with what happened – the loss of the history team. The StuG III’s gun was one of Oarai’s better AT guns, and it’s not like Oarai can win a war of attrition. They started with a 2.5:1 numerical disadvantage (8 vs 20). Now it’s 3.4:1 (5 vs 17)… and there’s a Maus! IDK, maybe the director felt the History team had it’s glory and now it’s time for the others to shine (Team Rabbit in particular). Personally, I’d much rather have seen only the Mallard Team lost (sorry Sodoko).
I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the reasons why things got delayed was simply getting the Maus properly animated and all to look realistic, considering it was never actually completed or fielded in actual combat, so people only have estimates and speculation on how it might move, perform, etc if it were, and wanting to get it as precise as they could, lol.
Actually, the biggest surprise about the Maus was the they decided to use it afterall. However, for anyone who’s read the Official Senshado rules translated from the show’s official site posted around October, and episode 10.5 in December, the Maus being here is actually very much legal. The only requirement for tanks in Senshado is that it must’ve been completed, or could be completed by August 15, 1945, with allowances made for prototypes and blueprint designs (the latter considered on a case-by-case basis by the Senshado League). The Maus already had a working prototype by 1944, several months away from said deadline, and so is totally eligible for Senshado use.
Porsche Tiger are also prototype…so seem fare to me. Prototype vs Advanced Tank Prototype. In anime, anything is possible. Bare that in mind. At least MAUS live up His reputation highly over rated. Hoping if got S2, I want to see MAUS against Sanders, PRAVADA and Gloria.
I do believe MAUS were reserve tank for Miho counterattack. I do believe Maho really wanted to see how Miho handle the MAUS situation, seeing as Miho never sees MAUS before.
WAIT! I thought any tank had to be operational to be used! The Maus was only a prototype with two hulls and turrets built. It never left the proving ground. Had to look that up on Wikipedia because my reference didn’t mention it (probably because it wasn’t actually used).
Besides that, this was everything I’d been hoping and waiting for. I was on the edge of my seat the whole show. Not only did we get Erica from the last episode, now we get Panzerlied! I’ve been waiting for the Auto Club to join them since the start of the show andthey didn’t disappoint. The one girl working on the engine as they ran (and talking to it) was great.
Miho is one hell of a tactician! The team has really improved too. They’re actually able to follow orders. She did just about everything right then went and picked up the stupid ball by chasing the Panzer III. Same mistake they did against Pravda (loved Pravda’s version of the Hammer and Sickle btw) .
The only thing I think they can do with the Maus is either drop a building on it or lead it into an area that can serve as a tiger pit. With that weight it would go right through something that their tanks can drive right over. Underground parking lot? This is going to be a real cliffhanger. Will it come down to Miho against Maho or do they have something else in store for us?
As I mentioned above, the Official Rules do not say anything about tanks having seen service in order to be eligible, only that they fit within a certain engineering and time limit. And the Maus fulfills both conditions for Senshado use: having a complete prototype, and said prototype being completed almost a year before the deadline. A lot of people had already predicted months prior that the Maus should be eligible for Senshado according to the rules, and only now did they decisively confirm its words.
It opens up the possibility of other WW2 prototype tanks appearing in the show, including designs like the British Black Prince heavy tank and Tortoise assault tank or the American T28/T95 superheavy tank.
…and the A41 Centurion I, too.
I have a TL copy of the rules (somewhere >_>), and I recall what SayuriUliana posted as correct. Not only are prototypes allowed (thus you could add the T92 self propelled gun (qualifies like StuG) and its 240mm M1 howitzer), but with Sensha-do League approval, even designs that didn’t have prototypes made. Ratte anyone? Only question is whether non-production designs/projects that were cancelled before the end of the war are still eligible.
FWIW, I take the rules as simply the GuP producers wanting the maximum amount of flexibility allowed. If nothing else, the Maus has generated a LOT of discussion amongst GuP viewers. Personally, in terms of competition I would prefer limiting sensha-do tanks to production models. Even if it’s just a few (i.e production cut off at the end of the war). True you don’t get awesome behemoths like the Maus, but makes things more fair IMO. If you really wanted to be strict, you could limit eligibility to tanks which were placed in service/saw combat.
@Bear: There are some options against the Maus. It’s not the most reliable tank so if you can bait the commander into giving pointless chase (and not get hit!), it might break down. You could also blow up the external fuel supply at the rear, and it might run out of gas fairly soon. The most important thing to me is that while the hull may be impervious, the TRACKS are not. The side/rear armor skirt does not cover the entire track/bogie assembly.
Given the urban setting, I would try to lure it into some secluded narrow alleyway where the buildings prohibit turret traverse. Once in position, the very brave (and hopefully still in one piece) bait tank(s) tear off to regroup while a couple other tanks charge in from the side/rear (away from the main gun) and fire several rounds as fast as possible at the exposed track/bogie assembly. The last tank remains on guard in case the Panzer III tries something.
If it works, the track/suspension will be damaged beyond repair, and the Maus stuck somewhere out of the way. One potential issue is how low can Oarai’s tanks depress their guns? That’s one benefit the M3 Lee has. The 75mm howitzer(?) looks like it can depress quite a bit allowing for a close/point blank shot at the exposed tracks/bogies.
@Greenmantle: The A41 Centurion would indeed be an outstanding choice for Sensha-do. MUCH better than the Churchill.
@daikama
They may have given a clue when the Maus backed up and swung it’s gun hitting the side of the building. Get it in an alley and attack it from the rear. If they panic and try to swing the turret they may knock down the building on themselves. They may even get them to jam themselves in something narrow. If they don’t manage to take themselves out. as you say, take out the tracks or bogies and they’re stuck.
@bear – also don’t forget that in EP 10, the Rabbit team was watching Kelly’s Heroes and the scene showed a tank’s gun trapped by close buildings. I mentioned in a “spoiler” above that I thought that scene might foreshadow Team Rabbit’s moment of glory. They have had the least amount of “spotlight time” of the five original teams. Plus it would just point out all the more why Miho made the right decision to save them rather than strictly follow the Nishizumi Style.
Miho did not have information regarding the Maus, so I guess she was confident enough to pursue the lone scout. Get it before it gives out the word about us.
Reminds me of Star Wars, when they decide to pursue a tie fighter to prevent it from telling the empire of their whereabouts only to realize later that they are up against the Death Star only to be caught in its tractor beam.
“That’s no moon… it’s a space station!”
@Yuhsaku Miho did not have information regarding the Maus…
Why do you say that? Was that confirmed somewhere? (Official site/tweet/etc)
It would be interesting to know since as BFP’s vice-commander last year you would think Miho would know about the Maus. Given Katyusha’s reaction, it doesn’t appear that the Maus was something BFP just added this year to their team.
That kind of line up is rather difficult to beat within the rules of this game. US had a few prototypes up an running that could work out, but it would be difficult using US tanks. Russian tanks could work out as they had quite a few strong ones during the war. But it would need to be heavy line up, not the one Pravda fielded with lots of T-34.
There was one myth in this episode though. The german tanks were not prone to breaking down, despite lot of their tank doing so during the war. It was because they had to use them in a way tanks are not meant to be used: They had to travel a long way across country by themselves instead of the normal way of by train or other transports. Tanks are not really meant for that and considering the stress they put on their tanks so were they more reliable then most tanks of that time even. It’s not like bombed out infrastructure is a flaw of the tanks.
How could someone not cry at that scene??
Anyway,
https://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2011%20-%20Large%2032.jpg
They just demolished the bridge with the Tiger.
Finally finished my thoughts, and the episode.
http://rightwingotaku.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/girls-und-panzer-a-fierce-battle/
– Well, that was quite a Maus trap they walked into.
– Overall, the episode didn’t have the sort of…on the edge feeling I had with Pravda or Saunders, but to be honest this was already an ‘up the creek without a paddle’ situation for Ooarai. The addition of the Maus in that maze of a city didn’t help either. No doubt Ooarai, in trying to catch the little tank, ended up finding the Maus in the maze.
– I can’t really comment on much of the tactics here. They’ve probably all been said, and already the same can be said about Miho.
– The use of smokescreens, combined teamwork, and the utilization of each vehicle’s strenghts and mitigation of their weaknesses show that Ooarai has grown fully. Made more so with Rabbit surviving that rather ferocious barrage on top of the mountain, contrast it to BFP, which fell apart trying to chase the Jagdpanzer 38(t)/Hetzer and losing a Jagdpanzer IV in the process.
– The animation I think was better here, then again I put mroe focus on the vehicles, and especially loved the part where the Maus fired.
– In all honesty I want Ooarai to lose. Not because I want em to lose to Maho and such, but already when most of the major Panzerfahren/Senshadou schools got your back, I think any ending will involve a deus ex. Although I’m more welcome to the fact that the Senshado schools pitch in to help Ooarai more than Ooarai pulling off a miracle.
– I also like this version of Panzerlied. I was first exposed to the song from the Battle of the Bulge movie with Henry Fonda and Robert Shaw and this one was better than the one added into the OST. Just, marching > clapping.
– All those lovely Panthers…so lovely…
– Screenshot Count: 96 + Video (or two)
Video: It’s a Maus Trap (in blog post).
And even if they do lose, considering this tournament was the first tournaments their school has been in in a while, yet they did SO well with, usually, overall inferior tanks (and numbers) to their opponents (who were also top, elite schools no less), but still managing to win coupled with impressive tactics and such, I could see them still getting saved by people because they were just that impressed by their performance.
Yeah, I get that impression as well. Clearly Oarai is the fan favorite. I wouldn’t be surprised if the other schools (Saunders, St. Gloriana’s, maybe even Pravda), all petitioned to keep Oarai afloat. XD Bad puns aside, remember the finals are televised. Any true sensha-do fan would be outraged at closing down Oarai after such a magnificent rookie performance against bad odds – especially if Oarai takes out the Maus before losing. Public support alone (incl. possible donations) could save Oarai.
Lastly, again focusing on performance, if the government truely wants to cultivate top sensha-do teams for the “World Championships”, it’s best not to break up potentially great team like Oarai. Oarai has a special team unity, and I think it’s pretty clear that the members wouldn’t perform nearly as well if scattered amongst the other schools.
I read that blog you wrote, great job on it too, to answer one of your questions Yukari was using a rangefinder not a field telescope. That being said I can’t find anyway to ID it, though I think it might be a German one.
Yes its a german one. They used it with their Flanks (from 20mm to their larger ones), and arty guns. Not so sure if they used for their Flank. I’ve got a few of them in 1/35 scale.
A lot of people were crticising Miho’s decision to go after the Panzer III, but actually as previously mentioned (by Germanguy) it was the correct decision at the time. Miho’s team is relying soley on their superior mobility to outmanuver and rage gurilla warfare against their opponents, the Panzer III is the only tank that can reliably keep up, even the Tiger P is faster then most of KMMs heavies. If the enemy has a tank that can keep an eye on their positions then they loose the advantage of being able to lie in wait for the enemy.
I was going to criticize Maho’s decision to keep all of her tanks in one group rather than taking advantage of her superior numbers and splitting them up to come at multiple angles; however considering how totally undiciplined her team is she probably want them within her visual range so she can keep them rangled. Honestly the only thing scary about KMM is their tanks and their leader, the rest are pitiful. It’s sad that a “noob team” is better diciplined and better coordinated than a team of turnament veterans.
That Maus, OMG! So huge and powerfull. Seeing everyone reactions to the revelation of the biggest tank EVAR was awesome,(especially on the forums). Katusha and Darjeeling were also pretty good this ep. Surprising that the Maus was actually intended to be used against Pravda, but perhaps as a bane to Nonna IS-2 sniping.
I’m sad that History team is out since they took out to most tanks so far IIRC, and poor Goose team, they were too big and too slow to get out of the way in time, and it’s possible (unlikely) that the History team took the shot to by the others time to escape, but still Oorai has lost one of it’s most potent vehicles and one of their best teams. Time to step up Bunnies!
All in all a good episode, can’t wait for the next.
This show has little girls driving tanks shooting each other, what could be more awesome?
Another season.
“Ob’s stürmt oder schneit, ob die Sonne uns lacht,
Der Tag glühend heiß, oder eiskalt die Nacht,
Verstaubt sind die Gesichter, doch froh ist unser Sinn,
Ja, unser Sinn,
Es braust unser Panzer im Sturmwind dahin”
The 3 month wait was certainly worth while. It truly reminds us why this show is just way to awesome. I won’t comment much on the tactics since it’s been expounded so far. But just a few points. Feel free to disagree or agree :-
– Looking at this battle, it feels like Miho has the mind of the flexible general e.g. Rommel etc. where she changes her plans according to the situation. Maho on the other hand is more like Montgomery where battles are fought as set pieces and according to the book. Another feature of Maho’s tactics is that she always makes sure that her bases are covered. That’s similar to Monty.
– Ninja Hetz…. That’s just pure win. Wonder if I can ninja in my StuG, JgdPz IV and JgdPanther.
– F1 Leopon GP….. O_O
– 4 Matildas and 1 Churchill…. Hmmmmm Ok……
1 KV2, 1 IS2 and a whole slew of T-34/85 and /76…. Ok… They’re in deep shit….
A line up of Tiger II, Tiger , Panther Ausf. G, JgdPz IV, Elephant and
JgdTiger….. Holly CRAP! How’re they going to survive?
Maus…………………………………………………………………….
when facing a maus head on, always remember, the lower glacis plate is weaker :3
“Weaker,” right. Only 200 mm of armor instead of 240. Or the 460 in the area of the mantlet. It doesn’t really matter, as even the Tiger (P)’s gun’s best armor penetration is listed as only 171 mm. They might be able to do better than that at point blank range against perpendicular armor, but even then I doubt their shots would be able to get through even in the rear or sides of the Maus enough to do damage.
HE shells , aim for the tracks then?
Screw HE rounds, Miho will do it with a grenade 🙂
I like your style friend !
https://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2011%20-%20Large%2027.jpg
Miho! The girl that leapt through
timePanzers!I saw your comment, looked at the picture and nearly wet myself laughing
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-30wCt6DwQwY/UOl-rp2fNtI/AAAAAAAABL0/LG9T-xUuR6o/s1600/Konachan.com+-+31024+the_girl_who_leapt_through_time.jpg
as a side note: Maho’s flag Tiger uses identification number 212… same as Wittman at Villiers-Bocage…
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/thomas310_2006/DSC04346.jpg
Seeing that it’s Tiger 212, I guess its suffice to say that anime Tiger 212 may meet its end the same way as the real Tiger 212 did.
Any speculations on this?
I guess the trick would be going for the wheels when it is between two buildings, so they immobilize it and can forget about it. I don’t really understand why they were admiring it when they should have run away or shot to the wheels immediately. If they only had tried to trap the Panzer III with their numbers instead of going all together behind it like mad dogs… Miho did a terrible mistake here that costed 2 tanks and a sever blow to their moral. It was an obvious trap, though I didn’t expect it to be a Maus trap 😀 (I enjoyed the pun)
Not really, If Miho wants to lure Black Forest to fight in the urban area, anything that running/sneaking inside the area itself is danger for Ooarai.
I believe that Miho know that there shouldn’t be many BF tanks in the town since most of them are stay with Maho but she probably not expect to see MAUS in here. They will be fine if it isn’t MAUS.
I know it’s not going to happen, but it would’ve been hilarious if Rabbit team hijacked the Maus.
On another note, do any other super-heavy experimentals appear in the manga? IIRC, someone posted a manga image of the Russian Objekt 279, but I’m not sure if that came from GuP or from a different tank and girls manga.
That’s just how our cute Student Council president is. Kei pretty much summed up what happened there too. Never thought Kuromorimine had a potential flaw where you just throw a wrench in their organized plan and they’re bound to scatter. Causing panic within the enemy ranks and toying with them fits Anzu’s personality so much that it’s cute.
https://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2011%20-%20Large%2017.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2011%20-%20Large%2015.jpg
– For everything the Turtle Team did in these scenes, they could change their emblem to a troll face because Kuromorimine just got trolled big time.
https://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2011%20-%20Large%2027.jpg
– Mighty strong legs Miho has got there. Her first jump didn’t even have a running start. Saving the Rabbit Team just adds to more of Miho’s awesomeness and why she’s such a great commander.
– Just wanna clarify something: The Leopon Team destroying the bridge was part of Miho’s plan right? She looked rather surprised by it, or maybe she was just awed by how the driver did it. Either way, it was definitely awesome.
They could have just as easily destroyed the bridge with a tank gun. I think Miho was more shocked on how the heavy Tiger(P) got a speed boost and left her Panzer IV in the dust. I have no idea what Leopon did to their tank (maybe they installed a NOS booster?) but since they are the Automobile Club, modifying their own tank wouldn’t be a surprise.
Probably this, though that means they put things that be used for aircraft engine into that Tiger(P). Well, should not be hard for Automobile Club.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_1
FYI – One of the Tiger(P)’s “innovations” was its complex electric drive train. Instead of a normal gas/diesel engine directly powering the drive train, it was powered by two air-cooled gasoline engines mounted in the rear part of the hull. Those gas engines drove electrical generators which in turn powered two electric motors that actually provided power to the tracks. Not only was the drive train unreliable, the Tiger(P) was outperformed by Henschel’s conventionally powered Tiger prototype.
So I don’t think NOS would work unless the extra power to the gas engines allowed the generators to “over-volt” the electric motors. Even so, AFAIK, electric motors are not as responsive as combustion engines. Besides, we’re talking about a 60+ ton (short/US) tank “popping a wheelie” (trackie?) Personally, I just file that scene under the Rule of Cool.
Good point guys. I also liked reading you’re little discussion on the technicalities of the Tiger(P). It’s a safe bet that’s what got Miho so flustered. Even if it wasn’t planned, it still delayed Kuromorimine’s advance…and then that Maus appeared.
Miho… Leaping lizards! Damn! Can that girl jump or what?
Poo Erika. After arrogantly looking down at Oorai, she looses her cool and composure… and track.
After the way Erika treated Miho and her friends in that tank cafe, she had it coming.
One big mistake on Maho’s part was neglecting to protect her rear and flanks. She knew the Hetzer was running loose somewhere and could afford to detail two or three Panthers to keep watch. Also, why didn’t the Jagdpanther commander tell Maho the Hetzer was on its way? Someone is in for a debriefing when this is over. 🙂
I agree 100%. Maho is VERY lucky not to have lost already when you consider this. That’s the view from the Hetzer’s gun sight right before Anzu opened fire on their first ambush. Given that Anzu was 2/2 for her next shots (maybe not kills, but good hits at least), I have no doubt had Anzu fired then, she would have at least hit if not perhaps even disabled KMM’s flag tank – thus giving Oarai an quick, easy victory.
I really wonder if showing the flag tank in the Hetzer’s sights was an overlooked production error. The ONLY reason I can think of for Anzu not firing on Maho’s flag tank is that it would end the battle far too quickly in terms of the script (no Maus for you if that happens). Personally, I would edit that screen shot from the BD release.
Anyway, yes, I agree wholeheartedly that Maho was foolish to let the Hetzer roam free. She allowed the Hetzer to return and break up KMM’s formation after the initial ambush. If not for an opportune moment of Maho turning her head, Anzu might have had a second good chance at taking out KMM’s flag tank. KMM has MORE than enough tanks to set two or three as rear guards/Hetzer hunters. Maybe the Nishizumi style doesn’t allow such tactics.
Ahh, Girls und panzer… Started playing world of tanks because of you :3
This episode was definitely worth the wait! I loved every awesome minute of it; from wondering what crazy scheme Miho would come up with next, through to sitting on the edge of my seat as Oarai drove into the Maus trap.
Why this anime is popular? Graphic is so so and storyline is not that good…
01巻 13,550(**,***) 16,155(**,***) 29,300(**,***) 12.12.21
02巻 24,733(*1,119) 27,006(**,***) 27,338(**,***) 13.02.22
This is their dvd sales volume and they sell tremendous amount than expected…
What is this anime’s charming point…
This sales volume is comparable with the -Toaru~ Railgun- or almost Clannad…
The reasons are, I believe:
It knows what it is. Side plots haven’t gone into the ‘help lost little girl find her mommy for entire episode.
It knows it’s audience. Has a ton of easter eggs etc.
It doesn’t belittle or handhold that audience. We don’t get 3 minute internal dialogues that are there just to explain something to the dumbest viewer.
All the characters and teams have character, impressive considering how many characters there are.
The pacing is top-notch.
To add on to Pokute’s list, 2 things stand out for me
1. It’s really a TEAM sports anime. Unlike say Chihayafuru or Saki, it is not a bunch of individual matches. There is a lot of teamwork and tactics involved as shown so wonderfully in this episode. And most of the time they are realistic for the physics of the tanks.
2. I don’t know what to call it but if this was a real-life movie, it has great cinematography. The series makes very good use of different views to present the action. There are wide angle shots to give an overview of the battlefield. Low angle shots within the urban settings to show how cramped things are. They even had first person view from within the Hetzer as it watched the Kuromorimine tanks go by. Props to the director I guess for choosing the best viewpoint most of the time and not using them too often that they become repetitive.
It’s simply an underdog story that makes it so appealing. Think the Rocky films.
It has great characters, sensible plot, no distracting sideplots, great animation and mecha design, ORIGINAL IDEA vs RECYCLED x times “boy makes fall in love all the girls around him”…
Moe meets Tank Goodness. Also, no romance, save comedic mentions of girls failures at it…
it is an “outside of the Box” Anime. Hit the Light on the right time.
I bet you watched it with 480p resolution and turn off the volume
Welcome back Mr. GuP, weee misssed you.
Firstly, it bad enough that the technological, numerical, and quality superiority is so skewered to BFP, the addition of a Maus juz totally throws the scale of balance. With this much of a handicap given to any one competitor, it would not even qualify to be called a sport anymore. Expecting Miho to pull out a win is juz unreal, even for anime.
Of course if the Maus was the flag-panzer, I would hazard a guess that later on Miho would use the Force to shoot into the Maus venting duct, hitting a vital component, and knocking it out. But thats juz to Dues Ex Machina.
BTW, if anyone is still keeping tabs on the ideal tank team. For my team formation, I would like to trade my Jadgtiger for a Maus, please ;-P
John BTW, if anyone is still keeping tabs on the ideal tank team. For my team formation, I would like to trade my Jadgtiger for a Maus, please ;-P
Yeah, I bet a LOT of people would add a Maus to their list. FWIW, when I thought of creating that poll, I wasn’t entirely certain of the official Gup Senshado rules so I used production as the limitation rather than any prototype. I found my copy of the TL “Official” rules (TL may be off, etc. so no guarantee on accuracy).
——————————-
3-01 Participating Vehicles
The only vehicles allowed to participate are as follows:
* Designs were completed before August 15, 1945; OR
* Vehicles that had begun prototype trials by that date; OR
* Vehicles whose construction was planned using only materials available before that date. The League will decide eligibility for vehicles that were only in their planning stages on a case-by-case basis.
Vehicles meeting these requirements must be confirmed to be constructed using materials that were available at that time. However, in the event that there is difficulty supplying the appropriate parts, the League may determine the extent that reproductions and modifications are allowed.
———————————————–
That third entry “Vehicles whose construction was planned…” really opens up a lot of potential items.
Personally, the first thing I’d change is to add an A41 Centurion (think I posted a such at the time). As for the Maus, I have a slight preference for the E-100 “Tiger-Maus (single 128 mm KwK 44 L/55 gun version). Really the entire E- Series is worth consideration if permitted. Why not replace that Panther & Tiger/Tiger II with an E-50 & E-75? The more powerful engine alone is worth it. If no E-series, then upgrade that Panther to a Panther II or even just a Panther F/Schmalturm. The US T-29/T-30 are certainly worth considering IMO.
hmmmm… JS-3 and T-44 would be nice additions to Pravda’s armory, both reaching operational use by june 1945.
Of course this opens up a lot of questions for me such as why Saunders only had Shermans and not Pershings or M-18s if we’ve got the Maus and Jadgpather in the mix. And how about this Super Pershing? It actually took out a King Tiger(!) according to this site. Imagine if they had fielded these earlier in the war! I think the reason we don’t see them is that they’re not well known and not unique looking.
@Daikama:
You got a point with the Centurion, one of the 1st MBTs in history. However there were various permutations of the A41 and going by the official rules, only the 17pdr is valid for use; not the more potent 20pdr or 105mm versions. Still a good all-rounder tank though.
JS-3 for the Soviets or T29 for the Yanks, would also be valid I guess. All I’m saying is there should not just be a count limit to what a team can field but also a technological or total tonnage limit that should be considered.
If this really is allowed in WOT, the players will be angry as Churchill.
I mean, what’s stopping a team to put out an all Maus squad then?
finally yea baby after some wait we see & well hey oarai smoke screen trick moves with student council doing sneaky turtles attack.
to lead battle stand on a mountain hill more sneaky turtles attack & which miho’s sister sidekick going like rage it all in.
then river drive til rabbit tank have probs til miho who leapt through tanks to rescue the bunny & on to the bridge so do city battle.
til oh (bleep) it’a MAUS tank cue it own’d stomp both clones officers tanks & history team tanks.
1eps left to go.
If only Nonna wasn’t there, Katyusha would have her legs wide open
https://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2011%20-%20Large%2005.jpg
Katyusha gets her own movie
http://static.minitokyo.net/downloads/06/27/433856.jpg?252011234
Anyone here play World of Tanks? I want to add some buddies to the game. My username is the same as on here.
I’m BlazingRay, I only have an NA server account.
I’m on the EU server 🙁
Look at comments in past episodes. There have been others who posted their WoT names here.
hetzer gonna hetz
id love to see a swarm of amx13-90 and batchat it’ll be epic
i think the hetzer crew will be pleased with an amx… since they like playing ninjas XD
With one more EP to go, this is the last chance we have to speculate on a GuP battle for a while (I hope). So I thought it might be fun to have a poll on the last battle of the season. Therefore, I present the Girls und Panzer Championship Match Poll. You can just list your answer or give an explanation as well.
1) Who do you THINK will win? [NOTE: NOT who you want to win and may be a different team]
2) Which team/tank will make the winning kill shot?
– For Oarai list the team (and gunner if you want). Ex. Team Anglerfish (Hana).
– For KMM write Maho or Erika (& their tanks if you want), and for the rest just put the model since I don’t think the other KMM team members are known. Ex. Erica (Tiger II), or Maus.
3) Who do you WANT to win? [Again, this can be different than your answer to Question 1]
4) Optional: For “armchair Panzer commanders” (guilty XD) – Tactics/Strategy for the team you think will win. This can be either how you think things will actually play out in EP 12, or how you would go about seizing victory.
——————————————————————-
My answers:
(1) Oarai FTW: While I am NOT 100% certain, it’s the “happy ending” that probably most viewers want. Plus it resolves a lot of issues cleanly. Oarai stays open, Miho vindicates herself and her own style of senshado, Shiho is forced to recognize Miho’s talent (one would hope), etc.
(2) Hetzer’s gotta hetz = Team Turtle (Anzu): Team Turtle has been on a serious roll with Anzu as gunner. It just works out too well in terms of the story. The SC fulfills their dream of saving the school in their last year of attendance. Assuming there is a season two (BETTER BE ONE!), sadly (very sadly for me T_T), Anzu, Momo & Yuzu will have graduated and no longer be part of Oarai’s team. Letting them have the winning shot allows the SC one last moment of glory.
(3) Umm… Oarai: Very torn here. Oarai winning is certainly generic/formalistic, but after seeing KMM’s ridiculous advantage in both numbers and equipment together with (IMO) Miho constantly out strategize Maho, I find it hard not to root for an underdog/Oarai victory. Importantly for me, after seeing this view from the Hetzer’s gun sight along with Miho’s & Maho’s relative tactical performance, I no longer think it’s unrealistic for Oarai to win. Unless, Maho suddenly becomes more flexible in her thinking (very unlikely), I have no doubt that KMM’s rigid tactics will allow Oarai to get at least one good, clean kill shot at Maho’s flag tank. If that holds true, then Oarai simply outplayed KMM and deserves the win IMO.
However, I would NOT at all be disappointed if Oarai loses – as long as the battle is relatively close (i.e similar to St. Gloriana’s match). It goes against the generic formula and is arguably more realistic. There are plenty of valid reasons for Oarai’s school to be saved even if they lose. Other than Shino & Erica, Miho has gained the respect of all the other schools commanders/vice-commanders (including Maho IMO). She’s already more than proven herself as a top senshado team commander, and for the first time in years (GuP Little Army), she has fun participating in senshado with her friends.
[Optional] (4) What I would do as Oarai to win (sorry can’t resist XD).
First, if there’s any sort of tall building affording a good overview of the town, the moment the Oarai loses the Maus & Panzer III, Yukari reprises her role as recon/fire control coordinator from the Pravda battle. ASAP, she takes the best observation point, locks the doors, and stays there for the rest of the battle. Tracking KMM’s tanks is critical in this environment and gives Oarai an edge for ambush as well as survival. Second, take out the Maus & Panzer III – BEFORE the rest of KMMs forces arrive. Maus strategy discussed before so not repeating.
Once KMM’s main force arrives, it’s pretty much as one would expect. Dividing up KMM forces and start picking off tanks with guerrilla tactics (hit & run, bait & ambush, etc.). Use smoke screens and create traffic jams by timely disabling tanks (i.e. take out first & last tank in a line formation) to create confusion & panic amongst KMM’s forces on a much larger scale than we saw when Team Turtle burst through their ranks. The ultimate goal is to separate the KMM flag tank and/or create an ambush/sniper opportunity providing a clean, close range kill shot.
Hope everyone has fun with this. 😀
Gad, I get a headache just thinking about how to answer. There are so many possible outcomes that I like.
1.) Oarari wins but there will be an emotional element to it. Maybe a fluke shot where Mom rants about it and Maho chews her out saying that Miho just was better especially given the odds. BUT it is possible that they win by losing where there might be a sacrifice involved (I’ve had this thought for awhile) that causes them to lose because Miho saves someone. That sportsman like conduct might save the school.
Ans: Oarari
2.) I like your pick but I’m hoping for a combined effort with maybe Rabbit taking the kill shot. As people have said, this makes Miho rescuing them a reason why they wind and justifies her actions. Maybe even one where Miho sacrifices her tank to get the job done and gets criticized by Mom for it. (I’m just expecting Mom to be a b*tch about this regardless of how it turns out).
Ans: Rabbit
3.) I want Oarari to win but I’ll accept a loss that saves the school somehow (I’d treat that as a win). Given the unequal odds I think the administrators would have a hard time closing the school with the fame Orari would gain as being a beloved underdog with big potential.
4.) Didn’t think of using the same tactic as they did against Pravda. Brilliant! They’ve already identified that KMM’s weakness is that when they get off script they have trouble, so it seems like creating as much havoc as possible would be the best tactic. They’ve mostly got smaller tanks so using the urban setting would allow their maneuverability to be used to the best advantage. Same thing they did against St. Gloriana which came within a hairsbreadth of working.
Now I’ve got to add the scenario I would like to see but have very low confidence in.
What happens if there is a tie or even a stalemate (both sides run out of ammo for example)? Is it specified in the rules? So let’s say we have a situation like that and the decision is to have the team leaders face off against each other. Sort of “Miho a Maho” (sorry couldn’t help it). That would make it the Nishizumi school of Shensadou against Miho’s philosophy (or so it would appear to Shiho).
Bear – I don’t know about the rules for a tie. The translated copy I have isn’t complete (ex. there’s rule 1.02, but no 1.01, etc.). I might do some searching later to see if there’s a more complete list. If anyone has a complete copy of the rules, even untranslated, please post it or a link to it. :D.
You do bring up a good point, though one I think would be rare. My guess would be that either the match is extended (i.e. overtime/OT), or even after a 24/48hr break for rest/repair, before starting an brand new match. There could be two types of OT – the normal kill the flag tank or a “sudden death” where the first team to disable ANY tank wins (maybe reserved for a 2nd OT if needed). Ammo resupply could be partial (Ex. 50% – prefer % since it’s more fair) or total. Refueling might be allowed in part (25% or 50% added to what each tank currently has), in whole, or even no refueling at all. Tanks out of gas are SOL.
Whatever ammo/fuel resupply is allowed, during that time neither team is permitted to make repairs. I think that’s important since all you really want to do here is extend the battle as if they didn’t run out of ammo. Tournament officials will be on hand beside each tank to make sure the rules are enforced. Any attempt to repair = auto disqualification of that tank and a “yellow card” for the team. Two or three yellow cards = forfeit the match. All guesswork on my part – especially this last part.
If understand your intent in having a Miho vs. Maho only duel correctly, you’re trying to remove the huge disparity between the two teams in terms of the number of tanks so that victory primarily comes down to style. If I’m correct, then if IMO, the greater the disparity in terms of number of tanks and tank models the greater Miho’s command/style is shown. The only things left to make up for such bad odds are the individual effort of Oarai’s senshado players and Miho’s leadership and senshado “style.”
Not to disparage the valiant efforts of the other Oarai players, but IMO it’s Miho’s leadership and tactics that will make the biggest difference in determining the outcome under such circumstances. My guess is that is one main reason why the show used that exact scenario for the finals. With a Maus on top of all the other Panthers, Tigers, Jadgxxxx and a 20-8 (now 17-5) numerical disadvantage, I’m hard pressed to think of worse odds for Oarai to overcome.
Lastly, thanks for participating in the poll. 😀 I really hope others decide to participate as well. I had a lot of fun with the “ideal team poll” and think this could be just as fun as that was.
@diakama
Your right. My thought on a one on one, Miho a Maho, battle is that it makes it almost totally about style. With the other team members you have the issue of ability of them to execute and of course the disparity in numbers (one issue that really frustrates me about the Senshado rules). It also seems that it’s not only Miho’s abilities that are important, but Maho’s since the KMM team can become chaotic when confronted by a situation and can act impulsively losing discipline. Take it down to just the two of them and you’re closer to it just being about philosophy of the game and the ability of the leaders. I think it could be intense since you’re talking about sibling against sibling in that scenario. I don’t think they could do it justice in the amount of time they have left though. Even your concept of an OT would take more time than they’ve got, so I think the match will end without it.
OTOH, right now we’ve got a david and goliath set up so even a close loss by Oarari may be considered a win. That almost feels like what the writers are aiming for with the emotional support for Oarari being enough to save the school (and a hook for another season).
I’m surprised no one has joined in your poll. I’ve been thinking about those things since the last episode. Com’on guys step up!
@Bear With the other team members you have the issue of ability of them to execute and of course the disparity in numbers (one issue that really frustrates me about the Senshado rules). It also seems that it’s not only Miho’s abilities that are important, but Maho’s since the KMM team can become chaotic when confronted by a situation and can act impulsively losing discipline.
That’s true. Still, by its very nature, you can’t entirely remove tank crew performance from the equation. AFAIK, there’s no tank designed to be operated by a single crewman so even with single tank vs. tank, there are still other crew members who can influence the outcome. It’s just not the same as a dogfight between fighter pilots.
The other issue is how you define “style”. In context of senshado, I take that to go beyond just tactics but also encompass leadership ability (incl. team cohesiveness & discipline.). IMO, the chaos sown by Team Turtle shows one disadvantage of the Nishizumi style. It’s so “by-the-book”, that if something unusual or unanticipated happens, non “officer” (i.e. team commander/vice-commander) tank commanders lose their cool and don’t know what to do. Not only that, I think Maho’s aloof and highly structured chain of command (i.e she’s not friends with every KMM senshado member) results in KKM not being a true team. They don’t work well together without explicit instruction. (Ex. Anzu contacted Miho and offered to help break Oarai free. Anzu didn’t just stay put awaiting orders from Miho, or worse panic.)
I do think you have a point, and it would be great to somehow distill the battle down to Miho vs Maho’s skills, but even excluding the above, the other problem I have with single tank vs. tank is that it eliminates a lot of the strategy involved with tank warfare. You can’t bait & ambush with one tank. You can’t try a pincer movement with one tank. That’s not to say tactics are entirely removed, but significantly limited IMO compared to having several tanks per team. I think single tank vs. tank combat tends to beak down into a matter of execution (driving skills, shooting accuracy, reload time, etc.) rather than style/strategy.
I’m 1000% with you on being frustrated with the numbers disparity and posted to that effect a few times before. IMO There should be a ratio limit as well as overall limit on the number of tanks one team may field. Say no more than 50% of the other team. So KMM could have up to 12 tanks for the finals. For KMM to field all twenty tanks (overall limit), Oarai must field 13 or 14 – no wait, the Type 89 only counts as 1/2 a tank so 13 1/2. 😛 IDK, maybe Oarai wouldn’t seem “enough” of an underdog unless it was always outnumbered to a large extent. Isn’t there a trope that goes “There’s no kill like overkill”?
I’m surprised no one has joined in your poll. I’ve been thinking about those things since the last episode. Com’on guys step up!
Thanks for the support :D. IMO we had awesome post ep discussions so I”m a little surprised there hasn’t been at least a few more “entries”. This is the last chance we get to do something like this for quite some time (there MUST be a season 2). I’m honestly curious as to what others think here. There are so many possibilities besides just who wins/should win. What role will Team Rabbit play? Will the Type 89 get it’s first kill (99% sure that’s right) by taking out the Panzer III (possible from the sides or elsewhere if an early model)? Like you said – Step up GuP fans and “voice” your opinion!
Clarification re: my post above. 3rd paragraph “non-officer tank commanders” = a commander of an individual tank, but NOT the overall team commander/captain or vice-commander/vice-captain (i.e. NOT Maho or Erica).
Meh. probably tl:dr anyway.
Well, there is the Case of Ammo. I think Oorai will get dangerous low on Ammo now. Because they lost 2 Tanks already. Depends on the Action with the Maus. If they let it im peace, they still have enough Ammo. But if they try to fight against him, they will get dangerous Low on Ammunition. Even a Commander must take this into mind. Like the Older Sister done it. And their Weapons cant do any Damage to the Maus.
Oorai must save Ammo, because there are still to many alive Tanks out there. besides the Maus
to 4) A good Commander on the Battlefield, must think “outside of the Box”. he must have a very good touch for improvisation or to Bend the “book of Combat” inside your Head to the circumstances. Here is the little Sister in advance
And to Attack the Flag Tank is nearly suicide. because Older Sister will surly set a Trap, in emergency case they will cover the Flag Tank with their Tanks. They still have plenty. So Oorai must somehow isolate the Flag Tank from the Group. But remember they must have some Tank that can do Damage to it… Dont forget their Armor
@Germanguy:
You make a good point about the ammo with so many KMM tanks left, but remember, all they need is one good, clean shot at the flag. As you say, isolating the flag tank is the key – whether by disabling KMM tanks or just baiting/trapping away from the flag tank.
With its 75mm howitzer and 47mm AT gun, IMO losing the Char B1Bis isn’t a big deal IMO in terms of offense, but losing the StuG III is a big deal. However, since the StuG III (99.99% sure it’s an AusF model or AusF/8), Hetzer and Panzer IV all use the same ammo, I wonder if Oarai could quickly transfer a few rounds from the StuG III to the Hetzer and/or Panzer IV before the StuG III is towed away. I don’t see why that would be illegal. If direct transfer is not possible due to the Maus/Panzer III, then maybe the Hippo team could make a small hidden ammo dump for the Hetzer & Panzer IV?
I also agree Miho is MUCH better at adapting to changing battle conditions/thinking outside the box than Maho. So who do you think WILL win (“Question 1”)? Will Oarai some how pull off a huge upset? Do you think it would make for a “better ending” if Oarai lost (assume the school is still saved/not closed), or better to have Oarai win (Question 3)?
Sounds like the same guy is spamming the comments section under the alias of at least a dozen usernames. Seriously when you said this show blows away the other shows that aired I say your right about one thing. This show does BLOW! This show can never compete with the likes of Gintama or many of the other shows that aren’t a moe blob driven pile of crap.
I’m sure somebody asked, but Saunders vehicle is the FMC XR311 — one of the first versions of the vehicle that became the HMMWV.
Will this be dubbed one day? The dubbers will have fun with this one with the multinational characters and accents to go with them.
Couldn’t wait and watched the raw XD. Very interesting how a few things were handled. Definitely a lot of material for discussion. With luck, Eng subs out in maybe 5-6 hours (just guessing).
Well, i have it easier. i night sleep and i can see subs in the Morning 🙂
With EP 12 out for a couple of days I’m a little surprised everyone is waiting for the review to post comments. Looking forward to reading Moomba’s review along with everyone’s thoughts. Be awesome if we get season 2 confirm in the meantime :D.
ok, spoilers ahead…
Show Spoiler ▼
I can’t imagine that any fan of the show hasn’t watched the last episode since the Eng dub has been out for two days (Commie has a v2 patch BTW), but just to be safe…
Show Spoiler ▼
How much does it say about a show when there are those that just can’t wait to comment on an episode? I loved these last two episodes and while some of tactics used by Miho may have been stretching credibility, they sure were damn fun to watch!
@daikama – in regards to your comments about taking on the Maus:
Show Spoiler ▼
BTW, I really missed how this show brought out a lot of interesting discussion. I really enjoy reading the thoughts of others that share in liking GuP.
@RifuloftheWest: BTW, I really missed how this show brought out a lot of interesting discussion. I really enjoy reading the thoughts of others that share in liking GuP.
Agree 100%! :D. The discussions were almost as much fun for me as watching the show. I remember Moomba commenting on the quality of our discussion at one point.
As for your comment regarding my alternative: Show Spoiler ▼
It took tremendous willpower for me not to watch the raws. Also I wanted to wait for Moomba’s review before I started babbling about EP 12. Love to see a second season but how do they top this?
First, they need Panzer Upgrades. Or they fight in the same “Class”. Seems like they are now Panzer V Top-Ace Crew
And, toping? Well, the Future can only show us what Tactics Nisumi will use in Battles. And we get more Panzer Porno fights.
First, they need Panzer Upgrades. Or they fight in the same “Class”. Seems like they are now Panzer V Top-Ace Crew
And, toping? Well, the Future can only show us what Tactics Nisumi will use in Battles. And we get more Panzer fights.
@Bear – I figured that most/all were waiting for the review. Still, given how things played out hard a bit hard to wait with EP 12 still fresh on the mind. You have much more discipline than I. LOL There was never any doubt in my mind I would grab the raw ASAP.
Love to see a second season but how do they top this?
That’s good question since it’s not that easy to even stay at the same level if you think about it. I have a couple primary concerns. First, possible continuation of the “against the odds creep” we’ve seen with each battle. Just by making it to the finals alone, Oarai has proven to be one of the top teams so I hope the need to present them as overwhelming underdogs is gone (i.e. more evenly matched fights & less quasi Deus Ex extractions).
Second, replacement of graduating characters. Some of my favorites will have graduated – Anzu & the SC along with Darjeeling. Maho’s got to be a third year student as well since Miho’s a 2nd year student. LOL thinking about Erica in command of KMM. Not sure about Kay, Alisa (SO want another in-match mental breakdown), Katyusha, and Noona. You can add new characters of course, but the absence of old ones you liked is hard to forget.
Evidently, you and I are the only ones who like my “polls” (assuming you actually do LOL), but I think you raise a good point worthy of discussion. I have a few ideas as I’m sure you do, but I’ll hold off for now.
PS/OT – Don’t think I mentioned this, but along with a LOT of WWII books I bought on sale during the holidays, I picked up a copy of Yeide’s “The Tank Killers”. Pretty good.
I like to see a new superpower tank school in the 2nd season like the Chinese…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army
…and make it like Rocky IV
@diakama
Glad you got “The Tank Killers”. There are a lot of stories about WWII that haven’t been fully explored. The tank destroyers effectiveness surprised me. Even though they were almost never used as intended their kill ratio was remarkable.
Yep, I liked your poll, but then I like to speculate about things like that.
It killed me to wait. “Just one more day, the review on RC will be delayed so you’ll wind up waiting to discuss it anyway”
I actually got spoiled on what happened before I watched it. Someone had posted a gif of a certain scene with the Maus when the raw came out so I knew how they were going to take it out.
The only way to keep your favorites together would be to skip ahead and have them in college or maybe a summer Senshado league?
@Bear: I also bought “The Infantry’s Armor” which is supposed to be as good/better. To me, the TDs effectiveness just goes to show how important good tactics were (that and large superiority in numbers). Much more effective to ambush/hit and run than just slug it out – though to be fair crews might not always have that option.
Regarding those graduating Show Spoiler ▼
@diakama
There has to be a better way of taking out the Maus than what they came up with, even though it was brilliant. I have an idea but I’ll tell you later.
Choke, splutter! your Deus Ex would be awesome, especially the looks on everyones faces!
No matter how great your equipment, if you don’t use it properly you can get creamed by mediocre equipment with great tactics.
“The Infantry’s Armor” looks like a good read. Seems like it covers more than just the Shermans.
I’m just wondering what has become of Ami Chono? She was supposed to be the girls’ instructor. I think I only saw her most during their competition with Saunders. Then before the start of the championship.
Good question. It seemed like the only reason she was there was so they could do a low level airdrop of an MBT.
@Yuhsaku:
I always took her as a primarily a comedy side character and a way to introduce how respected and well known the Nishizumi style is in sensha-do. She’s a professional instructor whose entire lesson was (paraphrasing) “just drive around and shoot” capped of with “text me if you have any questions.” Just one of GuP’s silly and funny little moments.
This might be a little late, but:
Teenage Mutant Hetzer Turtles!
Teenage Mutant Hetzer Turtles!
Teenage Mutant Hetzer Turtles!
Students in a half-shell. Turtle Power!
They’re Ōarai’s most fearsome student council. (We’re really hip!)
They’re students in a half-shell, and sixteen. (Hey, get a grip!)
When the BF Jagdpanther attacks
These turtle girls just shoot its tracks. =)
-> From TV Tropes
The Maus scene annoyed the hell out of me. Plot slowed down the girls’ reaction times immensely- they should have had plenty of time to hightail it out of there, or get a few shots in on it’s treads to immobilize it for a good while.