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「無頼の女帝」 (Burai no Nyotei)
“The Villainous Empress”
With every action comes a reaction, every deed a consequence. As Ledo finds out the hard way, you just can’t go about killing a bunch of pirates without expecting any backlash, and the Gargantia comes under attack as a result. As expected though, Ledo ends up saving the day, but we get a whole lot of interesting development in between…
…as ultimately, the episode wasn’t as much about the battle as it was the events leading up to it and after it. Because when all’s said and done, there was really no way Ledo was going to lose in that situation, and the pirates were in many ways quite typical ones at that—well, as typical as it is to have her as an epic pirate and lobster influenced mecha. As such, the big things—at least to me—regarding this episode was the fact that Ledo is at least starting to garner some awareness that this world is completely different from the one he grew up in, the fact that he now realizes has to at least adapt somewhat to the way people do things on Earth, and the ultimate acceptance he gains from the Gargantia crew at the end. And it’s something that’s highlighted by the discussions between him and Bellows about weapons and killing people, the discussion where Ledo verifies he can theoretically wipe out the Gargantia too, and the thank you he says at the end—all of which were not only interesting to listen to, but really hammered in the difference in ideologies between Ledo and the Gargantia crew.
Notably though, the above also hammered in two other things for me—the first of which is the kind of “innocence” Ledo has. Granted, it’s not quite the right word considering all the things he’s experienced and done, but it’s something I feel is appropriate because he’s definitely being influenced—and quite easily at that—by his interactions with the Gargantian crew. It’s not quite to the point where he wouldn’t know if he was being completely used, but he definitely lacks the individuality that people on Earth (and especially members of the Gargantia crew) seem to have, and it’s something that really gives both a contrast between the two groups and emphasizes the large difference in Ledo’s life compared to those of people on Earth.
Speaking of individuality and uniquity… this now brings me to the second thing, which is greatness embodied in human form: Amy. Okay well, fine. I’m stretching the truth here a bit and she’s not necessarily the most original of characters (or THAT great) by any sense of the word, but in the context of the show, she’s demonstrated herself as a rather intriguing individual that really bridges the gap between the Gargantians and Ledo. Suffice to say, I’m enjoying the way her character is being done and the things she brings to the table, and it’s just a testament to how well things are being done so far in this series. And like I said last week, I really wouldn’t mind being stranded somewhere if it were with someone like her.
Overall, it’s just another great episode in my opinion. The technology aspect surprised me somewhat (those submarines!) on top of the fairly good development, and it’s something that combines with the mention of Ridget’s father (Chevron) to keep me intrigued as to how things are going to turn out and how the pieces of the puzzle we call Earth fall together. At the same time though, I do feel like I have to mention that there were bits and pieces around that people likely will find fault about—things such as the discussion between ideologies, the manner in which Ledo accepts it, and the rather stereotypical nature of the pirate enemies. So whether or not this episode ended up kind of “meh” or “great” will likely depend on your personal preferences. Regardless, I think we can all still agree that Suisei’s been a pretty good ride so far with its fairly unique take on sci-fi (again, the bit where the soldier’s thrown out of a war rather than into one), and I guess we’ll just see where things go from here.
GREAT EP. Ijou.
the hell why you dislike Haruhi ijou , you seriously want to end like those pirates , aren’t you?!
Think it was just a typo…
What did he do wrong? He just said “GREAT EP, ijoi”? At least i dont think he’s disliking anything. *scratches head*
*ijou FAIL orz
1st
You aren’t even first
First fail
I’m kind of glad the Pirate Queen or whatever her name is didn’t die since that means she will try again.
After watching this episode for some reason I saw how similar this Earth looks when Compared to the Earth in Megaman Legends.
Maybe she did! That was a hell of a spinup as she blacked out from G stress (5g or so).
Then the toss and then the landing! Imagine for a moment falling off the top of the Brooklyn Bridge while seated belted in car.
But nahhh… She’ll be back. She too hot to die. And her subs (yes pun intended) whew! 🙂
Side note: their impact speed just from fall, not counting lateral was 68 m/s or around 150 mph as they fell for 7 sec under 1g.
c science can b fun!
:p
She seemed like she had a Team Rocket Blast Off though and they’ve survived far worse than that 😀
She at least seems to have passed out before flying off.
But at least the endcard went to her.
If we were to apply real life physics to anime, then the Aquarion Punch that Aquarion EVOL did in episode 8 or something was fast enough to have enough force as 8000 nuclear bombs.
My personal preferences made me think the episode was really great. In my case, both the ideology discussions, and Marika’s cousin AKA lesbian pirate queen lobster Lukkage were the highlights of the episode. That surfing lobster mecha is ultra cool. Would be awesome if she changed her ways and joined the Gargantia. Well, if she survived.
Indeed, in fact I would prefer just to have a show about Lukkage rolling around the ocean being awesome. Who wouldn’t watch a show about her doing pirate stuff, making out with chained up women and surfing in her lobster?
That would make such an epic spin-off!!
My one beef was with the Gargantian fleet commanders, who continue to act xenophobic and reason irrationally. They act like responsibly dealing with the alien presence on board by talking to it and inquiring about its intentions would be an insult, and continue to act insulted even after Bellows (the episode’s real hero) does their job for them, by asking Ledo what he wants, and (lacking the commanders’ xenophobia) judging that he and the fleet can coexist and enjoy mutual cooperative benefits.
In the scene where Bellows tells the commanders what Ledo did to the pirates, none of them acknowledge the power he has over them, and continue to discuss what to do with him as if they can arbitrarily do whatever they wish, like “hand him over to the pirates”. They act as if the destructive power they now know he has could not possibly affect their ability to enforce these ridiculous suggestions.
And then, when Bellows has forced them to finally speak with Ledo, Ridget has apparently done an about-face—even though nothing happened between the two scenes to change her mind— and now acknowledges that Ledo has the power to eliminate their entire fleet, which surprises the other commanders, as if they hadn’t even considered he might possibly resist when they try to dispose of him.
Is this like an intellectual beef where you disagree with their thinking, or is this a beef with the writing that makes them think that way? Because if it’s a beef with the writing, I don’t know what to say. I think this anime captures perfectly human interaction on a cross-cultural scale where both parties are completely ignorant of the other side. You don’t know how to treat the stranger, so you naturally resort to taking the moral/cultural/negotiating high ground and treat the situation as if you are in charge. Of course, what we have in Amy is the trope-breaker who is trying to bridge the enormous gap between Ledo and the Gargantians, and Ledo being the minority party and the docile Dragon that ought not to be poked into attacking is more than willing to listen and learn in order to make decisions in this critical junction.
My beef is with both. I can understand that they would want to treat the situation as if they were in charge, but they don’t even consider inquiring about Ledo’s intentions, which is irresponsible and quite stupid, given that even in the second episode they know he possesses puzzling technology and weaponry that could be a threat, or even of use to them.
In the second episode they discuss dismantling and analysing Chamber, but don’t even consider the possibility that Ledo might actually be amenable to letting them do that, perhaps even offering to explain what they may not understand, should they just reach out and negotiate like Ledo has been wanting to do the entire time. They exhibit zero diplomatic tact, for what are supposedly senior commanders with a lot of experience in foreign relations with other fleets.
In the third episode they act even more incomprehensibly, acting like forcibly controlling Ledo—who they now know possesses not only puzzling, but immensely powerful technology and weaponry—is just as much an option as it was before his display of destructive power. They don’t even comprehend how their inane suggestion to hand him over to the pirates would be a very bad idea if the pirates then decided to do the obvious thing and make use of his military power in exchange for the meager provisions he asks for.
Up to this point, this could be interpreted as the commanders intentionally being portrayed as irrational and quite stupid, despite their position, rather than as an unintended effect of bad writing.
But Ridget’s about-face change of mind is simply bad writing. If she could understand Ledo may potentially be able to wipe out their fleet, she would not have continued to act as if their suggestions to use force against him was an option, and indeed realized their only option was to negotiate. Instead, Bellows is the only one to do this.
This show continues to get better. I’m curious though if Ledo was the only one who fell through the black hole..
Im pretty sure that one of the aliens came along with him as it was still attached to his mecha when he entered the portal.
he ended up blasting it to bits with chamber before entering the portal.
Can I just comment on how completely retarded of the whole issue with Red using lethal force against the pirates was?
I mean actually pirate-like pirates and not the singing kind.
It literally makes no sense to accommodate an enemy that is actually directly threatening your livelihood.
The whole conflict this episode makes no sense
I think on this earth, there aren’t many humans left alive. So they have to value human life, even if they are scumbag pirates.
Bellows said something in Ep. 2: “You got what you came for, now get out!”
Or something along that lines. Seems like that’s what pirates are expected to do.
They come, show their force, and take the loot, but they won’t harm human lives. The guns are mostly for show, but gargantia has a few guns too, so it’s in the “You attack us, some of your machine will be damaged, therefore the loot you get from us will cost the repairs to that machine – it’s not profitable to attack us”
That’s what I see it as.
Him showing up and ACTUALLY killing everyone, must suddenly shock everyone to the core, even the pirates. In their culture, it’s never supposed to get to that level. Only theoretically is it supposed to be there, but no one actually DOES that.
Also, and the most practical aspect of it, let’s not forget that killing pirates will only bring more to attack them, with greater violence. Not a rational choice at all, even with a deus ex machina-like robot to defend them.
I agree and wish to add, I feel this is along the lines of local nomadic tribes raiding each others herds.
Like local tribes they know each other, may switch sides and may even be related to each other. As Bellows got the job offer indirectly from the Empress.
People probably get killed during the pirate raids like in real tribal raids and based upon the fleet conversation blood price could be paid or compensated for as long as it doesn’t cross a face/pride issue. Then when face is an issue like real tribal raids it crosses over to war raids where inflecting causalities and or wiping out the other tribe is the goal.
As a side note didn’t the defending PT boats around Bellow’s ship get blown up? So what would be 4 or 6 casualties for the defenders side so why did Ledo say no deaths?
I think its more Ledo didn’t cause any Fleet deaths as opposed to the SENMETSU the pirates got. But I also find it weird how the pirates were shooting missiles from the kites and the Fleet are just saying “Its all for show”. They asked for help from someone who shoots down space monsters and they’re surprised at the carnage…
I completely agree with what’s being said. Additionally I’d like to say that from an anthropological aspect its quite common. The various Native American tribes are a great example of this. Many tribes were at odds with each other, with the Apache especially having a reputation for a cutthroat approach. But the tribes never sought to exterminate each other. There’s a general understanding that when the terrain you live on is less forgiving than your enemies, you learn where to tow the line.
This is why i think the Gargantia’s crew will be divided in factions.
Some will support Red and guide him. *Amy and Co.* Others will try to take advantage of Red’s mentality and make him and Chamber in to weapons of chaos *most likely some new character, or one of the high officers of the Gargantia*
Eventually Red will have to struggle, should i take the genocide route? Ensure the supremacy of the Gargantia at the cost of pirate lives? Or should we come to a dialogue and mutual arrangement.
I think as the pirate crews that attack the Gargantia become bigger and more dangerous, slowly but surely the “no killing” rule will change to “kill them, but don’t destroy the ships, as they are valuable.” Also, the pirate on episode 2 names a dude named Reykiel-sama…so i am going to assume he is the leader of all the pirate crews.
Eventually Red will have to choose, kill them all or spare them. Surely Red’s choice will affect the story in a Gargantia sequel. *given the series being 13 episodes and also how vast this world is, i smell a sequel in the future.*
This is anime Mass Effect! Your choices will affect the sequel XD!
Sorry, but you don’t sling around that kind of firepower and not kill someone. That goes for both sides. These are naval guns we are talking about here, 55 lb shells at the smallest.
Also the threat of force does not work if no one believes you capable of using that force. If pirates know that you’ll do all in your power NOT to kill them when they attack, then why even bother with the show of force?
@Cracked1
Technically using any naval gun is going to cause far less casualties even if you sink their ships as it happens a lot slower vs. space lasers. If you just pew pew them and the all exploded and sink in seconds then there is little chance for people to escape/surrender.
Unless those turrets aren’t manned (and they sure as hell don’t look advanced enough for drone systems or even remote control) like the one the lobster mecha just blew up while climbing the ship, there’s no way that there’s no casualties. Also unless the implied attempted rape from last episode is totally fine, not killing the pirates is telling them that they can rape more as their victims won’t resist.
Simple maths: lets say 1 pirate this is consistently let off rapes 1 woman a week, kills 1 man a week. After a year, he would have raped 52 women and killed 52 men. If there are 100 such pirates, in a year, there would be 5200 women raped and 5200 men killed.
Killing that 100 pirates saves 5200 deaths and 5200 rape victims. 100 lives vs 5200 (x2) innocents.
Conclusion: Kill the entire lot until they get it into their brains that they are risking their lives to kill and rape
So Bellows was fine with just getting raped? Or is she not? Obviously she wasn’t fine with getting rape considering she thank Ledo. I don’t see rape as a minor crime compare to stealing somebody things or did the Gargantia actually welcome rape in their culture? I don’t see any good reason whatsoever to not kill the pirates who does things like that.
The crew of the Gargantua just figured out that Red (Ledo) can wipe them out, I doubt any of them can even comprehend that Chamber can annihilate EVERY SINGLE PIRATE FROM LOW EARTH ORBIT IN A FEW HOURS IF NOT MINUTES.
Only the captain seems to have an inkling of what they’re dealing with.
In anime and JRPGs there always has to be a character (usually a love interest) that complains about the main character being super badass and killing people then for the rest of the show they aren’t allowed to kill villains.
i think the number of humans left being low would make killing someone (even enemies) really bad .. after all there is no land (none seen so far) and they seem to live their whole life in limited spaces with limited resources (ships, did you see all the rust in them?).
I dont think earths people sees the pirates as enemies.. more like renegades and thieves ..
Two words: Culture Shock.
The way you think is right may not always be how others think is right.
So my piece of advice for Ledo is: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Just because the phrase exists doesn’t mean it is right.
Since when was assimilating irrational behavior justifiable just because the people around you do it? Its that sort of thing that let Nazi Germany go too far.
Compare your enemies:
-Alien swarm menace that can’t be boght off, negotiated and scared into submission.
-A bunch of guys out for profit, pretty rational and open to negotiations, deterrence and outright bribery. Theoretically you can get rid of them once and for all, but it would be just more costly than what they incur.
Difference when fighting such enemies is obvious, you can see it when we dont carpet bomb coast of Somalia. Closest we get to the first enemy was in WW2 and see how it ended – and even then in the end enemies did surrender when faced with wipeout.
yes, they are all retarded.
nobody said anime characters are all smart.
they can be stupid. stupid people do stupid things.
it all makes sense now.
I do suspect the production is trying to save budget since it is expensive to have Ledo to kill off all new enemy characters in every episode, so the director makes up some BS saying Ledo is not allowed to kill. you can cope with that by considering those enemies already dead in your mind. that should not affect the story very much.
These Gargantians really are incredibly irrational. If killing the attackers makes the rest of the pirates attack then all you have to do is kill those rest of the pirates as well. And if there are any other conflicts all you have to do is to have Ledo kill the non-Gargantians.
While things really do seem to be heading in a good way with Ledo easily being convinced not to kill other humans. He’s probably going to join their daily life which should hopefully let him personally deal with bad people and/or be betrayed to help him realise that when dealing with humans you shouldn’t trust them so easily, especially when some of them see killing you and taking your mech as the best plan. It’s pretty obvious that even in Gargantia everyone doesn’t believe in the give fresh water to the one who brings you fish ideology.
Calling it now the Gargantia fleet will be destroyed in episode 7.
Irrational to us maybe, since there’s several million humans out there.
But if you were on an island where everyone had to survive, and there were only 100 of you, killing even one person would be a huge loss of life, labor, resources ect. Not only would you lose 1% of humanity, the other 98% will now look at you very very differently.
It’s very likely that the pirates weren’t thinking about killing the Gargantia people either(As in everyone) they probably planned to kill off the leaders, and whoever was responsible for the attack on their other ship. But everyone else wouldn’t be killed if they surrendered.
I really think in this world, it’s culturally unacceptable to kill another person (Even your enemy), except in dire circumstances, and doing so will have everyone see you completely differently.
Honestly it shouldn’t seem irrational for us either considering that people shouldn’t be killed so easily but here you’re right that things would have even greater effect since Ledo would quickly destroy what little remains of humanity around him as they became more aggressive because they’d be even more aware of his threat and he’d lose any chance of actually getting some help from the locals.
Unfortunately though, I don’t believe this story will simply be full of happiness and healing. When you’re in an Urobuchi Gen work you’re either going to choose to kill or choose to not kill and whatever you do it won’t work out too well for you. Since it seems we’re in the don’t kill route I’m looking forward to seeing what his “peaceful” life has in store for Ledo. I’m expecting most of the next episode will have a light tone with darker things brewing behind the scenes. Something like Ledo seemingly gathering a harem from Amy’s friends while those guys who opposed asking for his help conspire against him. And then one of the girls die.
They could still use Ledo to take out only high-value targets (like the pirate queen), or make him fire warn shots to demonstrate the destructive potential of his mech. Seriously, they pick up what amounts to a tactical nuke, and all they can think of is throwing him out or giving him to the pirates? No matter how pacifistic or meek mankind has become, that seems utterly stupid.
Go back to the first pirate attack. The pirates DID KILL in the attack, easily shooting & blowing up people. So I wouldn’t call that “culturally unacceptable” although the Gargantians seem to have that value. They already made it clear that the pirates don’t follow their values. This is still a world, with many groups & factions with different values. So you can’t be sure that there aren’t other floating communities out there that won’t wipe out the pirates if they had the means to do so, if they were attacked. It looks like the pirates know how to pick & choose their battles. Too bad they knew little of Ledo.
yes, Gargantians are probably some stupid people.
they probably don’t have such education, so they are probably stupid.
stupid people do stupid things. it all makes sense now.
let’s continue watching.
Not sure if calling them irrational is fair.
Remember they’re trying to fit him and his mech in their frame of reference.
After his destruction of the pirate raiders they classed him as some form of super mech like the Empress’s surfing lobster which shows they still not understanding how far outside their understanding of power levels he is and why should they?
They have never needed to travel in space so the understanding that his mech is capable of hundred of millions of miles of travel vs their mech’s 10s of miles; his amour designed to turn away energy weapons that use more energy the whole population of their earth can generate, inertia cancelers that allow him to reach speeds that are fractions of light speed in seconds. They weren’t there when giant space monsters tried to crush and eat his mech; which is why Ledo was totally flabbergasted when Lobster Empress tried that weak (to Ledo) behind the back grab on him, as he couldn’t figure out how she expected to harm him.
I believe only Ridget starting to understand as Ridget was the only one to ask if he had enough power to destroy their fleet.
Seems like urobuchi is doing a little anthropological/sociological treatise here, with the three differing cultures (ledo/red’s, the gargantians, the viewers’). Think of it, just like in real life, what might seem irrational to one person who grew in a particular culture might be all right for another who came from a different culture, kinda like how some islamic practices might seem odd to christians and vice versa. This is definitely one of the more interesting aspects of the series for me.
Wow! Amy! Amy! Amy!
I kinda thought something like this would happen as far as a plot device. And it was executed beautifully.
I also like how Amy is not immediately the love interest, they’re giving it (if it’s going to happen) time
to mature and grow.
Stepping back, you can see the Gargantia seems like a loose alliance of tribes/chieftains under the
direction of the “Fleet Commander” (does he have a name?), and that there are many groups of pirates
in their world. At the beginning of this episode, many still don’t understand how powerful Ledo is
to believe they could hark him and keep his machine. They even thought about handing him over to the
pirates and going as far as blaming him for their current plight.
So, even after this next humiliating defeat of the pirates, I wonder if all of the factions on the Gargantia
will unite, or will different political agendas try to “control” Ledo and Chamber.
A major power shift has happened with the responsibility handed off to Ridget. I’m not exactly sure why,
though, but maybe her honest dialogue with Ledo (why are you offering to help weaklings like us).
It’s important to note that they haven’t formed a friendship yet, it’s more of a “you scratch my back and I’ll
scratch yours” type of thing.
So this is where I think Amy will play her part (seen by looking at the INTRO), but introducing him to her various
friends and peers and eventually and stronger bond will happen – that he’ll be accepted by the community and
feel more a part of the community (once he realizes that his fleet will not be coming soon to recover him).
So, she’ll be the somewhat light relief in the story, and Ridget will be the liaison between him and the authorities
of the community. This is a good move, because no way is Amy mature enough to do this (as might happen in some
other stories).
One prediction –
Show Spoiler ▼
This is my most anticipated series this season – this was a great 1st arc. Do we have an episode count for this gut yet?
supposedly there are only 12 episodes according to animenewsnetwork; sigh it’s such a shame. Though we would know for sure if there was some way to check the dvd/BD release dates, if there are more than 7 dvd/Bd for this series then we would know for sure that it is a 2-cour series
If it’s 12-13, could be a good series still.
But like you, I’d like to see more…
ANN tends to guess episode count if they aren’t sure. They judge it by the time frame of the season. So, if it’s not readily obvious that it will have more than one season, they’ll just assume it’s a single, standard cour.
Basically, I wouldn’t put that much faith in ANN as a reliable source for episode counts for ongoing series. Best to wait and see how many BDs it gets.
@nyangoro
I hope you’re right cuz id like this series to be longer; i feel that it can really make its step as a great series if it has more eps to shine
Pitiful Ledo, always being forced to eat animal carcasses. But at least he takes it like a man.
Makes you wonder what daily food is like in space. Synthetic nutrients in liquid form? I think I’ll go insane if I have to _drink_ food every single day.
Actually thats a VERY good question. Wonder what Alliance space food consists of.
PS. So the stuff Ledo was drinking from the gray packet in Ep2 was food? I thought it was water.
Give me some more carcasses!
Mmmm,charcoal-grilled carcass…(drools uncontrollably)
This is a fallacy of many fictional works where the human population have suffered a severe decline. The emphasis in this scenario shouldn’t be to preserve every life possible. It’s to maintain that every one alive can work together in a safe and constructive manner.
If a group of people are on a boat in shark infested water and one of the members insist on being an total ass, rocking the boat, agitating the water, and refusing to be reasoned with, then you either tie him up up or toss him overboard because he will endanger everyone else if you don’t.
Preserving and thus encouraging sociopath behavior will not help in the long run.
I have to agree with this. When all Pirates do is disrupt, kill, pillage, and enslave others they are taking away life. Now if prison’s existed in such a world or a way to keep them under control that didn’t involve just hoping they get scared off by threatening them I wouldn’t have a problem with the way they acted towards Ledo. Cause in the end they’re allowed to kill and commit other acts another day instead of being stopped.
Actually i preferred ledo’s approach to just vaporizing them and keeping the non-dangerous population safe. Doesn’t make much since to just keep the pirates alive when all they do is hinder the progress of society. The whole keeping them alive just to have them around seems like the statement of a naive idiot.
It is also equally naive to assume that no one can be helped. I do agree that in this setting, Gargantia cannot afford to be so lenient, but what you’re saying in the context of the real world is entirely preposterous. All anyone can hope for when being put under the mercy of another is a good conscious and sense of empathy. Tossing morals entirely out the window is not responsible given that we actually possess an ability to think and reason past what is logical at face-value.
I wouldn’t call it a fallacy in “storytelling,” more like a very believable fallacy of the humans living in that situation. They want to preserve life, no matter how illogical it may seem at times. Why? Because they understand the concept of surviving day-to-day and how mankind is teetering on the brink, so they want to protect as much of it as they can.
In storytelling, characters do not need to act completely logical. In fact, it’s more natural and believable that they don’t. Instead, they need to act according to their personality, their history, and their environment. I think that was achieved damn near flawlessly in this episode.
Don’t worry they can kill without disregard now since they now there are plenty of humans in space to continue the species.
Your hypothetical situation doesn’t apply in this context. The pirates possess no means to actually destroy the world or all its inhabitants (capsizing the boat in shark water) but they are a hostile force. I have to agree with Gargantia in that you cannot just needlessly destroy human lives, but I also think that if it came to lethal measures, I would rather kill the offender outright. The point of having to restrict yourself to this code and playing this extremely risky game of tug o war, however, is to maintain humanity. If there was no need to consider the worth of a human life outside your tribe, then what is the point of remaining docile anyway? Why not become territorial at the expense of others and expand to natural resources so that you can better protect your own? You could say that we would naturally be selective with which tribes are actually decent versus hostile scumbags like the pirates. So just imagine Chamber’s capabilities to extend that far, you realize that there is absolutely no way for Chambers to be selective, just like he couldn’t discern who was a decent human being or who actually had to provide for loved ones when he annihilated each and every single pirate member attacking Bellows’ fleet. Putting your tribe at risk of not being strong enough is the same as putting your tribe at risk by trying to maintain humanity, but which path would ideally make for a better place? The pirates take what they want and so would the Gargantians if there were no reason to believe other people are equal to them.
Of course, none of this matters if we know innocent lives will be lost otherwise, but there are infinitely more situations where you don’t know the outcome.
who knows. maybe they will tell you in the future episode that Gargantians don’t kill, but only capture and enslave enemies to make sure all human are “working together”. can you see how Lukkage chaining up women and those women end up working for her?
that may be the way how they work together. no killing is needed. in fact, killing reduce working population which is bad.
He should have killed all of the pirates. Or at least raped the main one.
When Lukkage went flying off did anyone else think “Team Rockets blasting off again!”?
I was waiting on the twinkle until the splash came 🙁
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought that, yep I totally expected to see a “blast off” flash.
Was expecting it, but thankfully it never came. Would have totally ruined experience.
I want to eat some turkey with Bellows too.
For me the rationale behind Gargantia attacking the pirates but not killing all of them makes sense. Going out for blood means there’s a high likelihood of retaliation in the future. Any time there’s a battle lives are put at risk, lives that not only are important on a personal level but given this is a post-apocalyptic world (even a pretty one at that) puts the limited pool of able bodied work force at risk.
The pirates may not have such qualms (like Bellows said, they don’t believe in “giving fresh water to the person who caught the fish”) because if they needed more work force they could raid other convoys for slave/supplies. As we saw with the show of fire power from Lukkage this week, even if Gargantia despise the pirates, knowing how powerful they are it might not be a good idea in the long run to annihilate them because there might be other groups out there that are just as powerful, pirates or otherwise. If other fleets start to perceive Gargantia as a threat to their people then they might band together and Gargantia would have more of a fight on their hands. That would be bad, not only because I’m pretty darn sure the civilians of Gargantia would not want to get drawn into a war, but also because they can’t keep relying on Ledo, who only has a tenuous agreement with Gargantia. Knowing he could just as easily annihilate them as he did with the pirates is another reason why they would want to keep him at arms length.
Now, as for the episode itself, I laughed when I saw the Lobster (also when Pinion got zapped in the butt when he fell into Chamber’s cockpit). XD;; I’m also glad Lukkage sounds nothing like Marina Ismail from Gundam 00, even though they share the same voice actress. That would’ve been even weirder than seeing a surfing robot lobster.
I’m looking forward to the next episode which seems like it’ll be more slice-of-life and we get to learn more about Gargantia beyond the pirate battles. On the series website there’s a novel section with colored illustrations, with one showing Chamber and Ledo helping Amy’s two friends gathering hay. In a world without land how or why do you have/need hay? Did they figure out a way to make artificial pastures on ships? And does that mean there’s a possibility of Ledo eating a carcass in the form of a hamburger? XDDD
I laughed when the blond chick yelled Semper Fi 😀
pfft…If I was going to get rape, of course I will kill the pirates. So stupid. Good show still but really irrational. The pirates was going to kill them anyway, it was just a matter of time. Does not make sense even with rational explaining. Ledo should just annihilate all the pirates.
Beside they could’ve just take all the pirates resources, after killing them all, and make more babies, it’s not like they don’t have that option.
After Lukkage was defeated, who else here was thinking, “Team Rocket blasting off again!”?
Oops, replied before reading the above. Sorry
Dude it was awesome it needs repeating XD
Well it is fitting since they’ve said the phrase multiple times 😀
Looking forward to how Urobuchi does his usual business. Doesn’t look like Ledo is going back to space anytime soon.
Lost a lot of respect for Amy this week.
“you murdered all pirates?”
“LEDO BAKA!”
And in the next scene she apologises for that? wow, wtf.
If some foregin soldier started murdering all thieves I wouldn’t just shout “you big dummy” or something of the like and run away. I’d be utterly disgusted and horrified. And probably murder him in his sleep later.
of course, it’s not Amy, it’s the director’s fault. Terrible shit, really. The show went a little darker than the usual formula and compensated it by completely glossing over some implications, and loses most of its credibility. I miss SSY.:(
She wasn’t apologizing for her beliefs, she was apologizing for her outburst. There’s a big difference.
Okay, so I’ll just edit my statement where I said she was apologising for her belief… Oh wait, It’s not there! I never wrote anything of the like.
I know it’s the internet and all, but must we assume that everyone that has a differing opinion is stupid?
The reason I say that, is because the only possible reason for being be mad at her would be if she was apologizing for her beliefs. It makes no sense to get mad at her for apologizing for an outburst like that. After all, she was the first person to try to accept Ledo after all (and this was in spite of the brief kidnapping); it makes sense that she’s the type who wants people to understand each other. So, when she called him an idiot without an explanation of why she said that, she wanted to apologize for it.
If some foregin soldier started murdering all thieves I wouldn’t just shout “you big dummy” or something of the like and run away. I’d be utterly disgusted and horrified. And probably murder him in his sleep later.
You mean the one you asked for help?That’s also disgusting and horrifying.
Irrational? This is simple. Ledo can’t stay forever. For all they know, Ledo can boat at anytime. The pirates don’t see the killings are the work of Ledo alone but as the decision of gargantia. The pirates might not attack while Ledo is there, but if he leaves? the whole crew gets screwed. First you flash your weapons. If that doesn’t work, break their arms. If that fails too, then you consider killing.
The war with the space flowers is a different thing, it’s a war with creatures that they have no means of communication with. A war fought with the aim of eliminating the entire species.
As I see it this is less about morality than it is about creating unneeded problems.
This. They have no idea when Ledo is going to leave & even after he did all of that, it’s hard for them to believe in his destructive capabilities.
Also note that the higher ups don’t seem to be much concerned about the loss of life. They’re happy to toss his carcass overboard and steal his mech. They’re just concerned that it will mean the pirates come after them en masse.
I do agree that they did not come up with a very good plan to utilize his capabilities … but they are still not 100% believeing what he can do & they don’t trust him at all. So it’s underestandable that they were cautious about it.
Even though I have a few issues with their ideologies I still felt it was a good episode regardless, and his thank you at the end was so endearing! Amy and bellows are awesome, they actually went out of their way to communicate with Ledo and try to teach him their way of life unless everyone else who was ready to give him up to the damn pirates( like that would have happened anyway). I’m loving Amy more and more with each episode…. she better make it to the end.
Damn my iphone. Replace try with tried and unless with unlike sheeesh.
This was another good episode of Gargantia and it also seemed to serve as a good “intro arc”.I’m really curious where they’ll go with the story but I suppose that high expantations won’t betray us with this one.Still,I wish this was a 2-cour show…
Too bad they started this BS of “we can’t kill”. I have when anime do that.
I can’t wait until the Human Alliance or Aliens come to fuck shit up and kick them in their goody-two shoes balls. The main character is out of his element now it’s time to throw the rest of the cast out of their element as well. I’d like to see how their “don’t kill” philosophy works then.
How many G’s will it take to knock out an average person? Cause that spin and crash could easily kill off Lukkage (waste of character design, want to see more of her) but maybe they are willing to make a bold move 😛
around 5g.
impact speed of 7s fall around 150mph.
no lateral motion calculated as i would need to guess orbit radius.
I hope she comes back as a character in the series, she seems fun.
Also, they already put a lot of budget into her design, why would they do that if she was a 1-episode character?
Well, it’s UroGen we’re talking about. He might surprise you and kill her off in this one episode.
Relax Flappy
Is anime! No body, no head go splat, no dead
Water soft like baby’s bottom!
More animal carcasses for Ledo to enjoy!
https://randomc.net/image/Suisei%20no%20Gargantia/Suisei%20no%20Gargantia%20-%2003%20-%20Large%2014.jpg
Flying squirrel ftw! Chu Chu chu chu!
Personally, I really hope this is the show where Urobutcher decides to not kill a bunch of characters- won’t hold my breath of course. This show easily passes the 3 episode rule, excited to see how the relationships between the characters develop and how the show progresses! My only complaint is how silly the lobster mecha looked, that didn’t take away my enjoyment of this episode by any means, I’m just picky when it comes to robots.
I am perpetually surprised that the people of the Gargantia think they have the ability to get rid of Ledo, or that they thought of handing him over to the pirates as a negotiation chip.
Stupidity knows no bounds, I guess.
Sniper bullet to the head would fix him. He takes his helmet off to eat. The problem for them is his device. Initially they though another person was inside it.
I’m sure Chamber is on constant alert for possible hostilities and would intercept the bullet and the sniper with a Reflector Beam if Ledo was ever targeted.
He detected a fleet of vessels a few hundred of kilometers away before Gargantia even got word of them. I am pretty sure that a sniper would get vaporized on the spot. Me thinks.
Yea, that’s the part that’s hard if you look at it directly.
But it’s also an indicator that he has not really been accepted
into their community/tribe/whatever even though he helped one
of their own with the 1st pirate attack.
Right now his status (with most of the leadership) is that of a
jack used to change a tire on a car, for example, you appreciate
the jack’s useful purpose but you don’t take it to dinner with you.
So Amy and Ridget and the girl he saved from the 1st pirate attack
are probably going to bridge that gap. Harem building at its finest.
I predict Ridget will be the Tsundere of the three (initial maidens) 🙂 🙂
Watching the opening reminds me of Mars Daybreak.
Loved that anime. Wish there were more like it.
I was extremely pissed at Amy. She never confessed to asking for help, so the entire crew assumed he did everything on a whim. He could have easily avoided fault by telling them “Your emissary, Amy, requested that I save you guys from an armed threat. I did you requested, so you guys can’t blame me for the consequences.”
The fault then lies with them for not being more specific, otherwise it is now at the executor’s discretion. They know his story. He’s a soldier. This shouldn’t have surprised them.
Its like asking a Marine with a M4 to help a group of 10 innocent people being chased by a group of 3 ski-mask gunmen armed with revolvers and combat knifes. What’s he gonna do? He’s gonna shoot the robbers because they are armed and deadly threat. There is no time to negotiate a surrender. You have no idea how those people will react. Any miscalculated judgment can result in the deaths of the people you are trying to save.
maybe in Amy’s world. soldiers don’t kill.
Yes if she confessed that would have alleviated the blame from him but the matter of fact is that he did what he did and now there will be consequences to deal with. Amy didn’t ask him to kill the enemy she asked him if he could help.
Could have this situation been avoided? Yes. Could have Amy confessed? Yes. Would that change the situation at is was after he did the deed? No. There were consequences to his action that neither Amy or Ledo could have every assumed.
Also Amy didn’t know he was an “marine with a M4”. All she knew is that he was “strong” and that he could help. Her dear friend was in a dangerous situation and she was out of her mind with fright. Also she couldn’t have known how much firepower he possessed. I can’t really see how can you be pissed at her. =P I mean I can but at the same time I can’t.
It’s not actually stated in the dialogue,
but my gut tells me that Amy told Bellows.
Bellows’ more mature response (opposed to Amy’s
emotional outburst) was to teach Ledo some basic
principles about how their world operates;
and the rules for engagement.
Remember, Ledo has been trained his entire life to
follow orders. Bellows did something very clever
by using the walkie-talkie instead of bringing him
in person to the meeting. This allowed the respective
parties to remain in their comfort zone and better
deal with the pirate problem at hand. I think there’s
some good thought in the execution of this series, so far.
I’m curious, the lady pirate’s name is written as ラケージ
The subs all seem have different romanizations of her name: Lacage, Rackage,etc..
Is there any one correct romanization?
PS. the end sequence for the show is pretty, like an aquatic Gibli.
It always sounded like they were trying to pronounce her name as Wreckage, but in the usual engrish way that the Japanese speak.
Some subtitle groups have stated they prefer “Rackage” because of her rack. Silly, I know.
Do you think there’ll be a dub for this series in the future?
<3 Bellows. That's an intelligent and pretty Onee-san there.
I really liked the discussion between her and Ledo. It truly highlights the differences in their cultures, thinking and ideologies not only as people of Earth and those living in space, but also the difference between a civilian and a soldier. Remember that Ledo has probably been a soldier as long as he can remember, and the equation of enemies = threat = must kill is common sense for him.
Pretty interesting to see his adaptability in action though. Speaking the first words of their language (and a 'Thank you to boot after receiving so much gratitude. How appropriate!) as well as coming to terms with their way of thinking to win a battle magnificently. Not bad, not bad.
Regarding the viewpoints on the 'no-kill' stance…It really boils down to the amount of humanity people consider IMO. I'm under the impression that pirates down go around mercilessly slaughtering people (where would their loot come from next if they killed the crew of every ship they robbed?) and likewise, the people of Gargantia don't do the same. It is perhaps a way of life, a zeitgeist in their times where they are more mindful of the dwindling population of humans after a devastating catastrophe left many of mankind dead. While there are some who escaped to space, apparently the apocalypse seems like it isn't quite so complete and we have the survivors, which could explain Ledo's surprise at seeing Earth in such a shape.
Granted, the crew on Gargantia probably took the idealistic approach. Have everyone live with some being takers and others grudging givers, or a survival of the fittest? I actually quite like the argument about retaliation breeding more retaliation, which results in even greater bloodshed. It may seem wussy, but now that they have an added factor of deterrence in Ledo, perhaps they can be a compromise eventually and see everyone working together? We'll see.
In any case, I'm glad to have bits and pieces of light-heartedness and humor in Amy and the butt zap. Good episode, looking forward to more next week. 🙂
When the lobster chick was surfing around on the waves trying to look badass I couldn’t have been the only one who wanted ledo to show up and put her to shame so badly right?
I think a lot of viewers are tainted by the “no killing” stuff from other shows before. Especially on shows like Gundam SEED Destiny, AGE and even the acclaimed Unicorn. The thing is, the issues tackled there are very simplistic and childish in execution. Not to mention hilariously double standard. Sunrise: “Remember audience WAR AND KILLING IS BAD!!! Also our well-armed and destructive Gundams are awesome aren’t they? BUY THE MODELS NOW but remember KILLING IS BAD!!!!!
But this is Gen who writes this. While I’m not a fan of all his work even I can’t deny he is an intelligent writer. He actually addresses the consequences of why murdering everything in sight might be a bad idea. The concepts of war escalation and retaliation are present and its a direct consequence of what happened last episode. Ledo himself admits that the battle was his fault and even the commanders of Gargantia are skeptical of getting his help after the stuff he pulled.
That’s the thing I like about this show: everyone acts rationally. Bellows didn’t approve of the killing, but she’s knows when to be thankful for being saved. Rackage instigates an attack because to her it was an act of defiance by Gargantia and she needed to prove her power. The Gargantia leaders put all cards on the table before considering asking for Ledo’s help justifiably worried about what he might do. It all breathes a bit of life into this show.
The only one who sticks out is the very idealistic Amy but she works because she’s Ledo’s foil so she acts as a contrast to the grimmer darker life that Ledo lives.
Seems like many other viewers think that this episode was all but rational. I’m glad there’re still some out there who don’t jump at the opportunity to kill.
Well… against someone who jumps at the opportunity to literally rape, you don’t have much options?
I suppose kill can be considered too far, they should have proceeded to rape the pirates for a few generations.
/s
“Universal rule”: every action -> equal action & opposite reaction.
I second that one. Maybe that is urobuchi’s whole theme for this: learning how to control the urge to kill. And i think he did that well with ledo’ s character so far, considering that his character had been trained to kill all his life. It could also be a take that to the audience who seem to enjoy all that killing for the sake of cool action scenes.
There’s a female version mecha of chamber on their homepage so we may see a female from space sooner or later.
Yup, it’s his Captain’s ship. The guy that sacrificed himself to save the fleet…
Something tells me, we might meet him again, after all he was also left behind.
I just have to say the whole idea saying don’t kill them is a load of shit, when they kept on saying dump his body in the water and take his ship when they first saw him. And what a load of shit that the pirates are all for show that is just so dumb. If it’s all for show then why give them anything. the only show that really pulled “don’t kill no matter what” without looking completely stupid was Vash the Stampede with his god like accuracy. Actually the ship has god like accuracy why not just aim for the weapons like he did in last episodes, instead of using his arms. The weapons of the ships and robots are even larger then people so how could he miss.
First, only one guy ever suggested that idea and nobody took him seriously because he might as well be kidding around.
Now the pirates. The “just for show” part means that pirates are bullies who threatened the fleet with their overwhelming numbers and weaponries. They are like, “See, we have much stronger force than you. So just give us everything we want and we wouldn’t kill all of you.” The best way to deal with that kind of people is by maintaining the status quo: letting them get what they want, but always keep the damage to a minimum and never provoke them to actually crushing us.
The last point: I don’t know. Maybe to minimize casualty?
Only problem is sometimes maintaining the status quo is just kicking the can down the line. By allowing them to constantly steal, they start building in material wealth and fame, which then attracts others to join their cause, expand their army, and further increase their strength. Like the issue our world had with pirates in Africa, the initial policy of appeasement merely promoted the idea of piracy in Africa. Pirates gained precious cargo and money from ransoms. Others saw this as easy money and joined in. The issue started calming down when the world started to no longer tolerate piracy, and started guarding their cargo with armed ships.
You have to understand that, to them, Ledo is completely foreign to them. He speaks a different language, came out of a giant machine they found in the ocean, and claims to be from outer space. They probably didn’t consider him “one of them” at first (as in, the humans in this current world). Though, yes, it was really only the one guy who seemed to be seriously suggesting it.
The goal was to minimize human casualty and to minimize the damage done to the fleet. Yep the weapon has god like accuracy but it’s pretty much a laser that cuts everything in it’s path. Not an ideal choice for minimizing structural damage. Don’t you agree? =)
Also the kite they use for surveillance looks exactly like the kite from the Studio Ghibli film Laputa: Castle in the Sky. Except for the propeller its an exact replica down to it being held there by a rope.
The moral of the story is:
Getting shot by cannons is more humane than instant vaporization.
they may consider preserving body(or part of it) is more humane. who knows?
Beautiful ED song.
though the preview in the ED is too small.
How come there are no causalities from all that cannons and riffle?
It’s kinda hard to not kill people if you fire all those weapons on your enemy
A-team firing (T)!
And walking away from an accident where the car has
flipped over a dozen or more times like you just parked
it at a fancy restaurant and you get out like you’re
ready to order dinner. A-Team!!!
they are probably aiming at only engines and turrets, since they are trying to avoid kills.
This is probably an honor thing.
They recognized that Ledo absolutely slaughtered them wantonly and without any kind of hesitation, which is why they approached him about it. In a head-to-head battle, they’re probably alright with possible murder due to the more “equal” nature of such a conflict.
So basically what their saying is it’s ok for us to kill each other because were equal in power but not you since your so OP. If not well at least that was the feeling i was getting when i was watching them firing cannons at each other while they just made ledo fly around in the sky.
I seriously don’t see the point in not killing the pirates. If you don’t kill the pirates, they would kill you. It is as simple as that. Particularly as the human population is supposedly low, is it not rational to dispose of those who pose a threat to your own population?
Killing the pirates would also not generate more retaliation. As the pirate queen or whatever is the leader of the area, annihilating their fleet would pretty much deter any other fleets from attacking Gargantia. After seeing the carnage, I doubt other pirate fleets would avenge the pirate queen’s fleet anyway as the cost would be excessive, and the benefit that could be derived, too small.
Genocide is not a simple choice. It’s as simple as that.
Not to mention it’s obvious that the pirates have equal or greater firepower themselves. The situation between pirates and other fleets is a state of deterrent. Going all out in war would likely result in casualties on bothsides, potentially catastrophic. As primarily civilian vessels Gargantia would have developed its society and defences primarily as defences only. If we parallel with our own society, the development of arms of countries like the US or UK are under “defence”. We no longer expect to invade other nations for pure conquest but we hold nuclear missiles as deterrence.
Overall, ok there might be some irrationality or questional writing by UroGen here. I personally don’t see it, but people can of course have that opinion. But the gross simplification of the product of human morality, logicality and culture difference is belittling the thousands of years of our own history.
Capital punishment also used to be simple…look how that had turned out, in a system of massive debt and over population.
It is true that Gargantia is probably made for defensive purposes only but it does not mean that it should be attacked. The pirates were the first ones who attacked Gargantia, Gargantia merely acted in – in simple terms – “self defense”. As such, it cannot be said that Gargantia is embarking on a conquest, invading and annexing other fleets. Gargantia is merely using its potent weaponry as a matter of self preservation – much like what most countries in our world do.
The reason why Chamber did not seem like an effective deterrence is merely because it only recently appeared. In the pirates’ eyes, Chamber merely seemed like a flying robot which is analogous to those that they possess. A deterrence would only work if the consequences are known – once again, this is similar to the role of atom bombs in our world.
This second post I agree with everything you say.
Had the pirates known what they were getting themselves into, i.e. vs a nuclear bomb equivalent. They would have deemed it non profitable to retaliate. They simply didn’t have any knowledge of what happened except everyone on the raid literally disappeared when engaging Gargantia.
So surely if Chamber’s capabilities were known without killing off the pirates, it would achieve the same effect as simply killing them off as suggested in your first post? Isn’t it morally more accept?
Also, considering the pirates probably captured some of their personell, would it not now be possible to capture and rehabilitate at least some of the pirates? Or possibly just jail, assuming they have some system put in place in event of crime. As you can see there are many solutions other than “I seriously don’t see the point in not killing the pirates. If you don’t kill the pirates, they would kill you”. They originally didn’t have the capability to fully engage pirates without incurring massive losses as evidenced by Lukkage’s appearance (were Chamber and Ledo not around to save them). But even now with their massive technological superiority it opens up far more avenues other than annihilation.
Technically killing the pirates already generated retaliation. If you dispose of all the pirates in the area then you will still get attacked in the next so you’ll just keep on killing. The pirates are even less likely to listen if all they hear from afar is that one group is trying to wipe them all out (A threat that they don’t understand or haven’t seen first hand can cause them to have poor judgement). What would happen if Ledo left or they need to send more than one group out for trading/activities he can’t be everywhere at once. Pirates could switch tactics and pick off their resource/salvage operations that would likely have more than one ship out at a time.
Say if you had a hostage situation and the hostage takers suddenly learn that no matter what they will die. (The whole incentive not to kill the hostages right then and there would evaporate and is the worst case nightmare for negotiations) If you chase off pirates with a display of force then they might not bug you as much and the many survivors may be integrable or be a better warning than the one guy that survived ep2.
(In real world ocean piracy they don’t typically go shooting up ships that have already been boarded (unless there is a well formulated plan, even then things can go wrong), they will try to defend with arms to prevent a boarding however, even if the real world pirates have the intent to kill the governments/patrols are supposed to arrest not kill them if possible, inducing a surrender is preferred over explosions even if one or two things explode along the way)(Normally you wouldn’t say snipe off every combatant just the ones that are an immediate threat to the hostages and you try to then extract them and detain the rest)
Assuming pirates are, like most human beings, rational creatures that elects their choices rationally, the options that they will have to choose between are thus:
1:Fight Gargantia knowing that they annihilated an entire fleet of pirate ships in a region and that if they face Gargantia, their likelihood of survival would not be higher than 10% (a hypothetical percentage based on the number of survivors in the 2nd ep).
2:Avoid facing Gargantia whenever possible, and loot other ships/wrecks/etc.
In such a situation, their desire for revenge may cause them to choose (1). However, as rational creatures, I highly doubt that if the other pirates are not closely related to the annihilated pirate ship, they would actually risk their lives for another. People who choose to be a pirate over being a normal sailor are humans who choose to appropriate others’ property for their own gain (definition of piracy); they obviously value property over other concerns such as ethics and justice.
The most likely option that they would choose would be to avoid Gargantia and continue looting, thereby satisfying their own greed and perhaps their survival. This would be the closest explanation of what other pirates would do.
Secondly, armies don’t round up pirates by killing them all is merely because they are incapable of doing so, unlike Chamber’s capabilities. If for some self gratification or moral justice, a party wishes to engage a fleet of pirates using average weaponry, the result would be a loss of life or property as shown through some of Gargantia’s ships exploding. As it seemed as though Chamber is capable of detecting the pirate fleets even before Gargantia is able to detect them, sending Chamber over and decimating the pirates would not only preserve the lives of Gargantia’s citizens, and thereby minimise any losses, but it would also prevent the pirates from attacking due to Chamber’s superior weaponry.
Who knows? maybe in Amy’s world, if one’s enemy spares his live, then he has to repay his enemy with his life by serving as a slave, so it is more beneficial for the pirates/Gargantians to capture enemies instead of killing them. That’s why nobody did that because killing enemies is considered insane/retarded/stupid. You can see that Lukkage’s slaves are helping her in fight. Who knows? Gargantians may be keeping hundreds of slaves behind the scene, too.
did this sound more rational for you?
UroGen may have a more “rational” version for you. Let’s see.
Empress Lobsters’ slaves may not quite fit the traditional slave definition in this case. They were M’s to her S. 🙂
Well, it is certainly more lighthearted than your usual Urobichi show.
Still i have a problem with this ep: the “moral” spin there is really questionable.
So, killing pirates is bad. Killing is bad, mkay?
Then there is a huge pirate fleet. Let’s battle them with cannons!
More lifes are at risk, and some ppl are certainly killed (those cannon shells arent flowers you know)
And the boy with its OP robot could have just wiped all threat quickly, completely and forever, but eh…
Excuse me, but this is just too far beyond reason imo.
Cannons sink ships slower than vaporize/explode in seconds space lasers. Thus this would reduce causalities even if the same result occurs and all ships were sunk. Most people don’t die from the actual shells/explosions but the ship either exploding or sinking rapidly trapping them inside. (Those cannon shells certainly are flowers compared to insta-explode lasers, by many orders of magnitude)
A pirate ship may decide that it isn’t worth fighting but that type of though process can’t occur if you get blown up in one shot.
Where is the “‘moral’ spin there is really questionable” and “far beyond reason”?
They have the same values as most other human civilizations have. Killing is bad, that’s why there are laws against it. But there are also laws allowing you self-defense.
They could have allowed him to “wipe[] all threat quickly” but is it really a wise choice to trust an alien doomsday machine with your protection, assuming that he will not change sides to the other party (pirates) if he thinks they are more beneficial for him. It’s far more reasonable to take things in your own hand. And it’s also far more reasonable w.r.t. to their morals to use cannon shells were _some_ pirates die, compared to your “wipe all threat _completely and forever_” which basically means sink every pirate ship, kill every pirate, because just disabling the pirate ships and stunning the pirates would not wipe the thread “forever”.
Just as the 2 others episodes, great quality of animation and awesome battle scenes!
As for the events themselves, I’m not too sure how to explain how t bothered me, but the whole ‘killing is taboo’ felt a bit too naive? Out of place?
I understand that in an Earth where it’s so hard to live and in which the population is probably pretty low, killing each other would be bad news, but looking back at the scene from ep2 in which the pirates attacked, it really didn’t feel like this was only intimidation: they were shooting, they sank ships and some of them were even planning to sexually assault Bellows herself and her friend.
Also, Ledo is surprisingly flexible and unbelievably kind and cooperative, even considering he is doing it because he needs them, which is most definitely not a bad trait of character for me, but I would really like it if he doesn’t turn super mushy and starts advocating pacifism and keep in mind he is clearly more educated, rational, sensible and informed than most of them, even the elder ones. Well, I suppose it’s my fangirl side wanting him to stay a ‘cool’ male lead? haha~
You and others who also brought this killing topic up, are always omitting Bellows’ second argument, where she explains that although “killing is not allowed in general” there are certain circumstances where it may become necessary. She did not argue as naive as you make it seem.
Their moral values are not different from ours, as in every human society around the world, killing is considered as one of the gravest crimes, too, but tolerated under certain circumstances.
I didn’t have the patience to read all the posts above (too many!!) but I indeed saw many people commented on the whole fighting/killing issue, one of the focuses of this episode.
I actually re-watched the part with Bellows talking with Ledo, but even after watching it a 2nd time, the parts that have the most impact and stay on my mind afterward are still the same:
“…murder is the greatest taboo here”,
“the pirates are the same as us, humans!”,
“it’s wrong to take lives thoughtlessly”,
“pointing out guns at each others is just a form of negotiation”
When she says things like
“…*we kill* only enough to survive” or
“we don’t kill unless we have to”
even if we can broaden the sens of this sentences to the concept of killing living things in general, but they don’t touch me as much because they ultimately came as a direct explanation of killing fishes and birds to eat/survive.
And even when she says “we obviously can’t accept that” (talking about the pirates) or
“our lives and possessions belong to us, not the pirates!”
the effect of such lines is diminished because right afterwards she continues with “we need a way to show it’s not worth attacking us. We just want them to understand that.” (advocating peaceful resolution again)
The other thing that have impact are Ledo’s interjections: they are ‘right’, they are on the spot, he pretty much said what most of us was thinking too and having him saying it aloud made us all ponder about it too: They are the enemy so why not kill them? > Because they are humans like us, it’s taboo. > But you kill other living beings? > It’s for survival! > The pirates don’t respect such rules; and what are you armed for then? > Yes, it’s bad, we are unhappy and bothered but STILL, it’s only to show our ‘will to fight’ and used to negotiate.
This is pretty much the message we get from their conversation.
I believe the reasons everyone’s feelings are divided about it are:
-“it’s bad the kill” is the ‘right thing’ to say/do, but ultimately, in episode 2, Bellows and her crew were in a critical situation and if I remember well the Gargantia didn’t/couldn’t help them fast enough; and the question is: if Ledo hadn’t come, would the pirates really have acted all nice and peaceful respecting the whole ‘killing follow humans is bad’ and gone their own way without hurting anyone? I don’t think everyone would have been so worried/alarmed nor that Amy would have asked urgently for help if they were no risk of them getting seriously hurt, and that it was only about getting their possessions stolen.
-Bellows says the pirates do not respect the rules set by the fleets, then what?: it’s fine to get yourself killed by pirates but on your side, you need to be as pacific as can be and beg for negotiations while shooting them too BUT! trying to be careful not to kill anyone if can be, else they’ll be back for revenge? It feels unfair and one sided. Though, again, we can still argue that this is the ‘right thing’ to do: it’s not because others misbehave that you have to do the same.
-Ledo actions: he did not kill anyone at all, so even though Bellows hinted that if things went too far they have to defend themselves to the end, the fact the death count was zero only validated the parts in which Bellows was advocating ‘not killing humans because it’s taboo’. And again, it’s this concept that stuck. And the effect on me personally was this overly heavy impression that they fought with rules that are too ‘naive’ considering their situation and who their opponents were (and the question arise again: if Ledo hadn’t come, how would Gargantia have ended up?), even if ultimately the fact they fought at all should show us that they were willing to kill if necessary.
-The way they act toward Ledo: they ask Ledo to understand them, to respect their views and culture, to do this and that, but on their side, what did they do for him? Again, even considering the circumstances (he is a strange ‘alien’ that looks dangerous etc…) and the fact he’s got no choice because he wants to stay there, it still feels one sided and unfair again since he pretty much followed most if not all of whatever they said/asked for 3 whole episodes but got nothing in return until the very last minutes of the episode.
So I suppose all these conflicting and opposing arguments and forces made many people discuss the issue, each one feeling stronger about one thing or another. I don’t think anyone is completely wrong or right about killing or not killing issue, each one of us just felt it differently.
(btw, I wasn’t the one who downvoted you *just saying*)
When in rome, do like Romain.
People on Earth have policy to help each other , you can’t denied their logics by your rational or irrational bias, THIS IS ANIME = FICTION. People are the product of culture and environment ! Bellow’s reasons are justified as well as Redo’s .
Human can’t survive on their own , if we really can , the only thing left to see in this world is WAR.
hey I just met you,
this is crazy,
but i don’t need you,
kill U maybe?
Phew, for a minute there I thought low-tech cunning (Lukkage) would prevail over far, far-future, high-tech (Ledo), guess they (pirates) still have a long ways to go if they hope to best him.
I predict next couple of episodes will be less pirate-bashing and more of Ledo adjusting and exploring the life and culture on board Gargantia, with Amy’s help of course. And God, hope he finally speaks their language to make things easier for all of them.
As much as I’d like to comment, alas my mind’s not working fully at the moment.
And thus now the epic discussions on the themes begins.
Seriously speaking, it’s hard to watch this show. Simply because it’s by Urobuchi. Enough said.
I wonder how long will Chamber’s energy supply last since it doesn’t seem like it’s able to recharge on earth (so far). I have a really bad feeling about this but hopefully my worries are proven wrong.
Probably that would be the equalizing factor in the story, Ledo unable to rely on Chamber forever in future major confrontations with the pirates and what not in order to reserve power. More likely the creators of the story will have Chamber survive longer by having it sit still, preserving power supply, in the hopes of having their distress beacon be heard by Ledo’s people in space (a long shot but it’s worth the try).
We can’t really apply our current power rules to Chamber. For pete’s sake he’s a space mecha that’s year’s if not centuries above our current technology. Being in space as such scientist’s have probably researched how to make energy last ridiculous amounts of time or having it recharge by some sort of naturally occurring element like dark matter, or solar energy, etc. First of all we don’t even know what sort of power source Chamber runs on. It could be an element that we don’t have present on earth. Not to mention if Chamber does have something like batteries they would most like have an extremely long power supply that could even last years for all we know.
I vote for the unlimited dark matter fission energy, lol.
I vote for terminator power cell that lasts for 200 years.
nuclear power or something like that 🙂 and camber was not building in earth it was building outside earth and that metal are not from earth to.it was build to survive harsh situation.
Perhaps it is self sufficient? It might have a ‘fusion reactor’ for example. That would more than adequately (theoretically) provide enough energy for the machine.
Let’s not forget about the “Milky Way” in the sea…where the lightbugs generate the energy and those forked lightnings…
I hate backlogs so much, only 13 more shows to watch T-T
I understand the “You’re not in Kansas anymore” situation that Ledo is in and how he has to adapt, but Gargantia just completely put the blame on him for killing all the pirates.What did they expect him to do? Just sit there and let the pirates rape, pillage, kill, and bounce when they’re finished? The pirates would have just came back to do it again or some other group of pirates would have.
Even if Gargantia decided to fight back when they’re prepared they would still get owned as evident by this episode because they barely did any damage to the enemy force.
The Fleet Commanders didn’t even take into account that Ledo is obviously not from their world either so he wouldn’t automatically know how to handle the situation and was so quick to point fingers at him.I bet they would’ve blamed Ledo if he didn’t fight for them with the first pirate attack.
Now that my rant is over, let’s focus on Empress Jesse, um Lukkage, and her Lobster crew.The Empress is badass, plain and simple.She took that giant swing like a boss and she didn’t surrender against an enemy she knew she couldn’t beat.
Looks like Team Lobster’s blasting off agaaaaain!
lol, yea. I suppose the logical war response of a commander of a fleet of ships would be to use the loudspeakers/radios to urge them to surrender, if not the mech takes them out, maybe zapping their bodies and harvesting their ships to improve their fleet’s military strength. Anyway the way it plays out is pretty noble and all, not to mention leaving something to look forward to in future episodes.
Episode 3 waste some potential.why not shoot green light of firepower to pirate as warning shoot instead rather than waste on doing stupid flying robot act as a light act as diversion not make any sense.man i am totally agree with you
Correction Lukkage thought she was the strongest and could easily beat ledo if he was underwater but he put her in her place and made her look like a fool.
Say Guys, i dont get it. is this “Urobuchi” a running gag? “the Anime will have Deaths, because it is from Urobuchi” is the Gist.. Well whats wrong with that? Or are you speculation deep inside your heart, for a 2nd Season. Guys? we are on Episode 3, and you want “2nd Season”?
So, this “Urobuchi” Running Gag, is for me soooooo out of Place….
Most of his previous work in anime(/visual novel) is pretty graphic and brutal. So he gets called UroButcher, a play on his name. Because usually there are some horrific deaths/scenes. Gargantia is really a tone of show he’s not touched. It’s much lighter affair but still retains some of his thoughts and philosophy.
Not sure I understand, but since all of his works so far are pretty dark, people doubt he’d write something without someone dying a cruel and horrible death. People aren’t really thinking about a second season, they just suspect that Urobuchi is going to pull a fast one on us and suddenly smack us in the face with despair. Especially since Madoka Magica, where he and the studio tried to fool everyone into thinking it would be fluffy and happy, but alas it was not so…
I’m just waiting for Urobuchi to pull the rug out from under us…
AWESOME CRAB BATTLE… I mean, lobster battle.
In the next episode of Full Metal Panic: Gargantia, Ledo eats more animal carcass while Chamber continues to be an awesome brobot.
What if the Butcher catches us off guard by actually making this series have a happy ending with no suffering?
We can only hope for this, no matter how low the chances are for this to happen
Well, if i speculate about a “dark end”. These Alien nails, can give us some hint
In episode 1, some flow around in his cockpit after awaken
at the end of episode 2, he has now a 2nd. But we only saw 1 in a time…
so, what happen to his first Nail? and how he got the hands on it? Time loop? but he burn holes into the 2nd one…
I love the episode, but I got somewhat angry when they blamed Ledo for everything. “Do you know that this is all your fault?” I mean, come on! So they’re fine with pirates forever harassing you and taking your hull while you just sit back? Of course, the overkill the Ledo did is new to them, I understand, since that’s all he’s been trained to do, but putting all the blame on him is overboard. Also, the blond guy who keeps saying they should just throw Ledo overboard and steal his mech, I wish he has to balls to say that in front of Ledo’s face (seriously, what an asshole). Every now and the, anime reminds you people can still be assholes even in dire situations, especially if you’re an outsider.
Yet, after all this, it was still a fantastic episode. I love how the writing gets you feeling and thinking about all kinds of things. This is easily one of my favorite series of this season so far.
That “thank you” at the end was too sweet. Awww Ledo.
When I have no watched this anime, I think it ‘s great anime.
But a micro setting destroy the great anime.
I hate “Suisei no Gargantia – 03”.
“You can open fire, no matter how many people die”
brainless plot.
Sorry, input wrong.
I want to say,
“You can’t open fire, no matter how many people die”
Good series. Loved the way Bellows explained the situation and the way they set up Ledo to learn the phrase ‘arigato’. Only thing that is bugging me is why can’t Chamber just blast the pirate ships’ cannons away? No loss of life there and i am sure the space age targeting system is more than up to the task. Also, that lobster surfing bot is waaaaay illogical…..
Perhaps the defenders Pride, is here the keypoint. these 2 old high ups, dont liked that he protect them.. so i thing we will see some dirty tricks from them in the future. perhaps plays of power. how can control ledo, wins
“let’s hand him over to the pirates” like they have some kind of leverage Lol.Come on,after the horror they witnessed? In what kind of fantasy world the gargantia crew is living.My first reaction would be “oh shit! we need to be on this guy good side”
Their probably thinking like there’s “a lot of us and only one of him so we can take(overpower) him” or something along those lines.
They still dont realize, how powerful he is, compare to them. They use their own way of thinking. His Mecha is just a special Mecha like them. we can dismantle it and then reproduce him. They still dont understand that Chamber is way upper league
Chamber is for them just a remote controlled Mecha from Leo
I think, we need a Episode. Where Leo got captured or are forced prevent to enter Chamber or calling for his Help. So that Chamber has to act for himself to save his Partner Leo. With that, there Eyes will be open. That Chamber is indeed independent from Leo, if it is needed
But i wonder, if they have the EMP technology. And Chamber is vulnerable to it. Then Leo, has a Problem here…
Then it is Leo way to help his Partner Chamber
And btw, i like how the Nippon Anime, took the American Film as base (it is clearly Water world), and fill them with their own way of Life/Soul
Nippon that can do American Style and Nippon Soul!! Yeah!!
I don’t think EMPs would work though. As Chamber was made to be durable in space, which implicitly means that it would be subject to various radioactive sources and bursts of electromagnetic waves/particles (whichever scientific model you use), it is highly likely that Chamber’s armour is made to withstand such phenomena.
Well, heavy lightning Beams is a weak point. And these Bugs inside the Sea, are capable to create Lightnings.. Perhaps here join 1+1 together, and we have a “chamber in a pich!!”?
Perhaps i give the Writer wired ideas 🙂
Still no Urobucher surprise…. I thought they’ll have the pirates win and have the women raped or something, then have the MC be blamed for everything.
Darn it. Waiting for him feels like waiting for a timed-boobytrap to trigger and reveal itself. 10/10 for suspense, that lobster-lady almost got the captain.
On a lighter note …
http://theoryofe.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/vlcsnap-2013-04-23-22h33m42s60.png
Ridget looks really lovely when she smiles. Don’t you agree??
hmmm a female ineffective villain, two female sidekicks, crab-like mecha…
it’s like Nuku-Nuku again!
Something I’m curious about is Rackage’s two slave/companions.
Is the slave status a front? Or are they legitimately slaves, but get promoted status during combat/raids? If they get their own boats and weapons, what stops them from running away? What sorts of hot, kinky, yuri loving do they get up to?
So many questions.
how knows. Perhaps this Chains are more a Visible thing for the Males on the Pirate Ships. aka, these 2 Hot chicks are the Captains own playthings. So Hands off.
You get my Gist, if you thing about Nature
If there is no Police or any other Law reinforcing establishment (Army, Mercenaries etc.) then there is only the Right of the Strongest
As someone who enjoys discussions of different ideologies, beliefs, morals, etc. I was very pleased with the direction this episode took.
The pirate queen got me appropriately pissed and I found myself rather more on edge than I’d expected to be, particularly in hindsight of Ledo/Chamber’s insane gap in power and skills. Still, my heart was pounding as I contemplated if the Fleet Commander would be killed or not, and whether Ledo would be forced to break his no-casualties agreement if the pirate queen refused to surrender.
Lastly, the first baby step into bridging the language barrier was incredibly endearing (I very much agree with you, Zephyr, regarding his “innocence” per se), but more than that it to me offered a sign of Ledo trying to get closer to the Gargantia crew and show them the same decency they have now shown him.
Overall, I’m quite happy with how this series is going thus far. Gorgeous animation never hurts, but the story and characters insofar have been wonderful to watch.