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「円卓会議」 (Entaku Kaigi)
“Round Table Conference”
Shiroe is one of the greatest villains I have ever seen. He has become a tyrant for the good of everybody. Muad’dib would be proud.
Hydraulic Despotism
“He who controls the spice controls the universe.” – Frank Herbert, Dune
One of my favorite books is Frank Herbert’s Dune, and it contains for me what is the quintessential example of hydraulic despotism. Just as ancient empires wielded power by controlling the supply of water, the rulers in Dune dominated the universe by controlling the spice melange, a drug that gives users a longer life span, great vitality, heightened awareness, and can unlock the prescience that makes interstellar travel possible. If you haven’t read the book (though you absolutely should), take it from me – the spice is very, very important. Without it their entire economy implodes in an instant, and all of the richest and most powerful people would die from withdrawal within days. To control the spice is to control the universe.
Shiroe just did the same thing. He found a linchpin, something that each and every player needs from time to time, and he took control of it. Five million gold bought him the entire Akihabara guild building, which lets him set permissions for the entire building. Not within the individual guild halls, it seems – Minori, Tohya, and the others still had to make it out of Hamelin’s guild hall on their own – but he can prevent people on his blacklist from creating new guilds, leaving their current one or joining a new one. Any guild that doesn’t play ball could be slowly bled dry of members (provided those who wish to leave get Shiroe’s leave first), and either locked in their guild halls or never allowed back in once they leave. Better yet, the bank is in the guild building too! Since every player wants to use that, Shiroe has power over every adventurer in Akihabara. Law requires the threat of punishment, and now Shiroe has the ability to dole that out.
Threat For Threat
I liked how Black Sword Knight’s Isaac threatened war against Shiroe for daring to endanger his supply of EXP pots – and also because Isaac seems like the kind of guy who doesn’t like anyone telling him what to do – and Shiroe answered right back with news of his real estate purchase. Actually, that’s not right – it was Shiroe pointing out that his own blackmail was no different than Isaac’s threat, save that Shiroe didn’t even make a threat, he only answered a question. Shiroe’s control of the guild building has an alternate use, enforcement of the laws they are to decide upon, but Isaac’s threat was openly only that. You threaten war, and Shiroe will threaten starvation. Sit down Guardian boy, you’re no match for the Villain in Glasses.
Escape From Hamelin
The escape from Hamelin wasn’t the most pulse-pounding thing ever, but a few points shined. First of all, how it made Isaac react (thanks to Shiroe’s laughter) was highly amusing to me, though perhaps not wise for Shiroe. He can be the villain, but laughing while being evil is a step away from cackling, and once you go down that road, you’re lost. I would know, I cackle all the time.
Better still was the flashes of what looks like Minori pushing Tohya in a wheelchair. Though not possessing the terror of a certain other MMORPG-based anime, to most of the players being trapped in Elder Tales is probably not an ideal situation, but to Tohya, who appears to have been wheelchair-bound… Well, he seems like an affable lad, he probably didn’t mind. For his sister though, to see her brother finally able to stand and run on his own two feet, that has to be a beautiful thing. This world isn’t so bad sometimes.
As for the other thing, I highly enjoyed seeing Akatsuki, Naotsugu, and the others give the Hamelin bastards some comeuppance. Though in fact, Tohya and Minori didn’t do so bad either! Even just making it out when they’re Lv 15 and they’re being attacked by a Lv 46 is impressive enough. Seeing him pay for his crimes was even better.
A Benevolent Tyrant
Shiroe is now officially a tyrant. What makes him an interesting one is that he’s trying to be a benevolent one. Like Muad’dib and Vetinari before him – and I’m sure some actual anime examples, though for the life of me I can’t think of any, or at least any operating on Shiroe’s level – Shiroe is trying to wield his power to better people’s lives instead of selfishly enriching himself. What fascinates me is Henrietta’s comments about how though the devil knows he’s evil, Shiroe doesn’t, no matter how very evil he is. This could be dangerous, because we all can do ill if we’re not on the look out for it, and the consequences for Shiroe making a misstep will soon be much, much higher.
But for now at least, benevolent he remains, and it’s hard to argue with his goals. To spring everyone free from the fantasy they find themselves in, and to establish laws to make life better for everyone. Some might not like the idea of laws, but I think they’re a good idea, and as evidence I’m going to keep pointing to Susukino until all argument goes away.
Shiroe Would Be A Great Lawyer
I have some friends involved in both politics and law, so I can say it’s not whether you’re right or wrong that determines whether you win, it’s how adeptly you guide the conversation to topics and answers where your victory is assured. Shiroe had power behind him in the form of his real estate purchase, but he made the little moves that have put him on equal footing. Here are a few:
- Shiroe has the reputation to pull people in, and he exploited Soujirou’s reputation and general affability by having him take care of the invites. That got everyone around the table where they could talk.
- He invited Silver Sword in full knowledge that they would probably walk out, and when they did he let them go. Good. It’s better to deal with those who care rather than try to convince those who do not.
- By inviting the biggest badasses around and getting them in the same room, Shiroe made himself and Log Horizon a big name merely by being associated with them. Though of course by the time Krusty pointed that out Shiroe was about to reveal his new power, so that was quickly unnecessary. Now they’re a big name no matter what anyone wants.
- He asked leading questions. Those two goals of his are hard to argue against, at least unless you want to look like a terrible person. He set it up so they’re predisposed to agree with him.
- Even how Shiroe kept pissing off Isaac may qualify, though I’m still waiting to see if he goads him into doing something (good) he wouldn’t have otherwise. Somewhat unlikely, since anger isn’t conducive to rational thought.
There may be more, and I’m sure there will be next episode. The fact remains that Shiroe isn’t just making the big moves, he’s smoothly guiding the round table in the direction he wants it. Beautiful.
Looking Ahead – Shiroe’s Vision
With the kids of Hamelin free, next week we’ll get to focus on Shiroe being badass until he has no more badass left to give. I have my guesses as to what he’ll do next (spoiler tags people, use em), but I won’t muse aloud. I’ll just wait to see what goes down.
tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – Hydraulic despotism with the guild building gives Shiroe de facto control of Akihabara. Now will the council play ball? #loghorizon 09
Random thoughts:
- I’m not surprised that the leaders of the two most powerful combat guilds are Guardians. Main tank is a linchpin role that’s at the center of everything…yeah, probably better to lock that down yourself. One less thing to worry about.
- Serara is frightened by the monster she helped to create. Don’t worry Serara, he’s a good monster! Probably.
- Author’s Note: I’m going to be out of town next weekend, so expect the post for Episode 10 to come out Monday or early Tuesday. Normally I would get someone else to cover for me, but please forgive me, I’m being selfish. This is the kind of stuff that I love blogging more than anything else, so I just can’t give up on writing about Shiroe’s glorious victory! Thank you for your understanding.
Check out my blog about storytelling and the fantasy novel I’m writing at stiltsoutloud.com. The last four posts: What I’m thankful for, On writing fast, writing well, One short story, one week – buzzer beater, and Writing challenge – one short story, one week.
Full-length images: 14, 18, 25, 29, 32, 42.
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The smile on my face the whole episode….
The moment Shiroe made this statement:
“4 hours ago I purchase the Gild Hall”
I went what the hell did he just said?!
I knew he was planing something but this exceeded all my expectations, not only he gives the Devil a good name, Shiroe is more than capable of convincing the poor demon to set himself on fire!.
Lesson of the day: Don´t f$%&k wit Shiroe!!!.
The greatest villains don’t wait until they can be stopped. The quietly own everyone before they even have a chance to react.
{insert theme song “Can’t Touch This”}
Shiroe – “Stop, Shiroe time”
Though this was a dead give away in eps7( a lot of foreshadowing to this point though). It was still shear brilliance to see when I finally caught up to eps9.
I did thinking that this move would have happened in eps8(which it kinda did in the preview). Though I now see why they did it this was. A fake money business to entice the 3 money making guilds to basically cough up the mulla for something that, their minds created but didn’t exist. Shiroe knew in long run would make the profit( Trump – Can’t touch this”.) Again shear brilliance.
@Stilts – you mentioned Dune (good read) and a very precise anecdote. Control the most valuable thing and you have the most power. Though that can set you up as a target whether the intent is good or bad. Piers Anthony’s “For the love of Evil” is similar. The MC was corrupted into sin but fell in love Evil to try and do good for mankind(he became the Devil)
good blog….thanks
For Love of Evil is another good book, by the way. Enjoyed that one quite a bit!
I have no words to express the build-up of this series. The climax is astounding and the result was earth-shattering… or rather, world MMORPG shattering. Shiroe-san, you are my kind of villain. To me, you rank among Muad’dib and Lelouch as the most fitting villain of the world.
Also, Shiroe is the list of Villans like Lealoch that GOT AWAY WITH IT.
“Shiroe has the ability to doll that out.”
Should be “dole”. “Doll that out” sounds more like what Henrietta does to Akatsuki. 😉
Wishful thinking, wishful thinking. A certain preview pic distracted me.
Akatsuki is so flat.
Indeed, though it’s been said a few times, and what little I’ve read of the LNs (not future stuff, just what we’ve seen) that she’s supposed to be REALLY pretty in the context of the world. It’s basically the first thing anyone mentions when they see her.
Flat is justice!
Anyway… Show Spoiler ▼
Beautifully executed episode.
Shiroe actually reminds me of my uncle. The guy was a businessman like any other, but man, can he bully those pesky corrupt government inspectors into a bloody submission. Normally, those A-holes asks for a bit of lunch money so that they wont have to make any REPORTS about the establishmet, but when my uncle is around, the corrupt inspectors tend to go unemployed before the week is out. I have no clue how he does it, but he does it well.
Anyways back to the episode.
The moral of this week’s episode is simple: Sometimes being bad is the only way to do good
By being big and being bad – Bigby Wolf
Told you guys he’d buy the building.
Nothing but pure villainy. Shiroe really pulled all the stops. I could even put him on the same pedestal I put Lelouch. What a magnificent bastard!
10/10
Good thing Shiroe hesitates too much before deciding on any major decisions then. It balances out all that evil aura…
That was so obviously, when they mentioned the 5 Million, “With the Expansion you could buy City Halls, of course it will be very Expsensive”, and the Look to the Guild Hall from outside… There was to many Hints, hidden. But if you know where to look, you find them
But, what will happen next, after he is the “Guild hall” Master? Dunno. To buy the Entire City, is impossible…
‘an entire city’
That suppose to be a guess right? Yeah, a guess, h.e.h.e . . .
Just don’t insinuate it by calling it impossible, OK.
He don’t need to buy the entire city. He just needs to set up rules. The Guild Building was enough of a hostage.
Only villains take hostages.
Such an evil guy.
Shiroe is trying to setup a situation that will govern itself. Rules give stability, especially since a lawless society can only end in chaos – that include leaders who support a lawless society.
They already said that every building was for sell, which means anyone can buy them which brings up Show Spoiler ▼
Nothing is impossible for Shiroe.
Yeah I knew that you would enjoy this episode and it seems next week will have something very enjoyable. I love to see the enactment of the pen is mightier than the sword with Shiroe using his wit and brains to silence the brute of a guardian Issac.
Well everyone can feel proud with the real estate purchase, at least that was guessed right 😛 There’s a few directions they can take this now, depending on whether they want to get down to the brass tacks of why everyone is in Elder’s World in the first place. I’m betting on that personally as a villain of the week plot will quickly grow stale for the type of setting Log Horizon has.
Quite humorous how the strategists are always seen as evil too. Success against the odds does has a habit of scaring others, especially those who lack the introverted trait of long mental discussions with oneself. As Henrietta mentioned Shiroe’s biggest weakness is his ignorance. He is very much a moral person, centered around order and the right to pursue happiness. This will come back to bite him once something comes up which forces him to choose between upholding the Council’s law or pardoning someone close. There’s a reason the idea of a merciful and just god is a paradox, you cannot have mercy with justice and vice versa. Expect some trouble ahead in creation of a constitution for Akihabara and in getting its citizens to agree to it. Shiroe is in for the long haul.
Shiroe will undoubtedly have troubles trying to balance justice and mercy – provided the story bothers to go into those, that is…I can easily see it moving onto bigger fish before that kind of stasis sets in – but all he has to do is what we all do, which is the best he can each time. I’m sure he’ll mess up, but it’s we who expect leaders to be perfect that are at fault, because no one is perfect. Better earnest like Shiroe.
And of course strategists are seen as evil! If they played by the rules their strategies wouldn’t be innovative enough for them to acquire the strategist title. It’s those who are willing to use their corkscrew of a mind to twist, torture, and subvert the rules or the situation to their benefit that are the true strategists, and that’s only rarely going to end with everyone smiling and singing kumbaya.
2 things:
1. I could be wrong, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t get down to ‘solving’ their problem for quite a while. I really think this ‘trapped in a game’ premise is more of a cheat to allow for a world-building anime than anything else. I mean, it will need to be dealt with at some point, but I really don’t get the feeling the story is in any hurry.
2. The interesting thing about Shiroe’s power compared to any form of real power is how absolute it is. The rules of the game have given him more power than any real tyrant could hope to have. Because no matter how powerful the tyrant, people can resist. There is VERY little anyone can do to resist Shiroe’s specific authority. Essentially he controls reality regarding their guilds and their finances now.
It will be interesting to see how the author tests this, or if he even will. Maybe this is done and new conflicts will come from other directions entirely.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, let’s just hope he won’t be totally be corrupted. He had become a real devil in the novel at the end of volume 4.
Shiroe power isn’t that absolute. People still can access their accounts and do guild-related things. Just not in his guil hall. Which means they have to travel to another city. Not simple, by any way, but possible. He can’t even banish people from Akihabara – he can just make their lives here very uncomfortable.
I think you’re underestimating his power. If they have to go to another city/guild hall to use their account, then he DID just banish them. Forcing them to leave is still banishing, no matter how he does it.
I think you’re also underestimating how hard it is to play an MMO without a bank account, especially if you’re anywhere past the low-levels. Making the bank cost money to use is one of the main reasons that the Old Republic’s free to play system was blasted so hard. It wasn’t free if you needed to pay to use the bank.
There is no way to play without the bank, especially if PKers can take all your stuff like in this game.
Most people aren’t fortunate enough to have griffon mounts, so it would be a long and treacherous journey to another city. And who can say if the situation they find ends up being like Susukino or worse? Much less risk involved to just go along with Shiroe, who is, at least for now, not being a complete dick with his authority. He’s just asking for cooperation to make the atmosphere in Akiba better.
The point is still valid. I never said he doesn’t have enough leverage to effectively banish somebody – he sure have. But it’s just that – leverage. He cannot physically made them leave the city. He cannot stop them from sneaking back into city. He needs other guilds to cooperate, not to antagonize them. If his terms were unreasonable, then the whole “I’ve got Guild Hall hostage” thing would backfire. Other guilds have thousands of players, and hundreds of them 90 level. If there was war of attrition, they could just set up patrols at city gates and keep PKing Shiroe until he gave up. But if his terms are agreeable, then he can convince other guilds to set up patrols to keep laws – and then the Round Table Council – as a whole – CAN banish players from the city. That’s the beauty of his plan. He didn’t force them to submit to his terms. He forced them to cooperate with him.
Never thought I would see a dwarf assassin.
Dwarf rogues? Seen em in plenty of MMOs. They’re small like halflings but a little sturdier in their base stats. Probably not real useful since a tanking rogue is a dead rogue, but doesn’t hurt much if you want to have the beard.
Oh, and in Elder Tales there are no halflings, so I guess if you want to play the midget backstabber you have to go dwarf. Easy sell!
backstabing evil halfling!
omg the memories!
“I am a Sexy Shoeless God of War!”
I would make one, dwarfs are always a preferred choice for me in MMO’s.
+100 points to inanis for the Order of the Stick reference! Though technically Belkar is a ranger, with a little bit of barbarian ^^
I felt so good about the moment Shiroe decided to be like “BTW, I bought the guild hall.” He took control of the entire meeting from that moment on. He’s not a strategist for show, this is complete domination on a battlefield outside of fighting monsters. Also, I really liked the scene with the wheelchair, it definitely adds so much more character to Tohya and Minori.
I loved that moment. They all thought he was there begging them for their agreement the way Marielle had done with the smaller guilds, when actually he was there to inform them he’d just checkmated them all and they could either get on board or get out of his way.
Great moment. Having the music kick in right then helped a lot.
OK, 1st thing 1st –
My post on Log Horizon 8 (November 24, 2013 at 8:29 pm)
“…It was brushed off even in the novels – but apparently the brother of the twins, Tohya is wheel chair-bounded in the real world. That’s why he looks especially happy walking & running at the beginning…”
Um, whoops. Sorry, I accidently spoiled that for you guys.
But come on! The original novel that I read covers that when Tohya saw Shiroe & co. just back to Akihabara from Susukino so I really thought the anime cut that out, since they already had cut a lot of contents.
So sorry for spoiling stuffs, & I’m also terribly sorry resulting Germanguy to get a total of 36 thumb down for this. Honest, none of the downs are from me.
No biggie. Fortunately it wasn’t too big of one. In the future just make sure to use the spoiler tags and label what the spoilers are about (broadly).
Np, same here with Stilts, Just try to hide Spoilers, for the others to Enjoy the Curiosity
for god’s sake, this post is also a spoiler!
ah, nm. I must have missed that scene. sorry
“What fascinates me is Henrietta’s comments about how though the devil knows he’s (Shiroe) evil, Shiroe doesn’t, no matter how very evil he is. This could be dangerous, because we all can do ill if we’re not on the look out for it, and the consequences for Shiroe making a misstep will soon be much, much higher.”
Yeah, that is a dangerous trade Shiroe shows, thankfully other then being a nice enough guy, Shiroe is a pretty anti-social person. He has no problem using the power given or borrowed to him but apparently he has no lust for power & control – he probably think its a chore.
But he is very persistent that he will reach his goal no matter what. Looking at what he had done to save two friends from slavery – even the outcome which is rearranging the powers of Akihabara is a good thing.
One cannot stop to wonder what he’ll do to achieve his goals next. However noble they may seem.
Show Spoiler ▼
I didn’t notice it at first, with everyone comparing Log Horizon to Sword Art Online (or .Hack) but the more I watch it, the more similarities I begin to see between Log Horizon and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.
The real world is replaced by a game world in which (at least for some) life is better than in the real world. The main character performs acts that others percieve as evil, but he does them with good intentions. People who die are revived. Show Spoiler ▼
Additionally we have the different races, a non-human advisor character (Nyanta/Montblanc) and now even a – sort of – younger brother character who was bound to a wheelchair in real life (Tohya/Doned).
one man, one vote and the man is Vetinari, erm, Shiroe!
Akiba is now a city of “One Man, One Vote”, in which Shiroe is the Man and has the Vote, haha!
Now that Minori’s released, let the Loli Wars for Shiroe begin! (I’m only assuming from what I’ve seen in the OP song)
I really don’t like that Minori’s apparently a love rival. She’s explicitly a middle-school kid. Shiroe is nearly out of grad school. That’s a HUGE age difference, especially when one of the two is still so young.
I like Minori as a character, so I hope it’s really just a one-sided crush on her part that Shiroe unknowingly strengthens by being kind to her. I mean, if I saw a mid-20s guy messing around AT ALL with a very early teenager, whether she liked it or not, that would be serious cause for concern/punching/calling the police.
you never know he might actually be a lolicon
I mean during the first few episode when he discovered that Akatsuki is a girl, he blushed a lot when
she gets a little too close to him and that’s before he knew she was the same age as him,
lol
Trivia: BakaTsuki has the translated Log Horizon LNs frm Vol 2 to Vol 5 Chapter 2.
Vol 5 Chapter 2 Part 5 might be interesting for you guys,http://bit.ly/1jXzK0o
since there’s the early mentions of the Show Spoiler ▼
over there.
Theoretically it would be Season 2 material, but that part seems more to slice-of-life~ish instead of full-blown spoilers…Read at own risk of anime enjoyment :p
Eh, it still annoys me. And the difference with Akatsuki is he’s not a lolicon with her. She’s just short. And despite the joke she’s not that short. She comes up to just below his shoulders and he’s actually shorter than his character (she’s the same as real now I believe) so the difference is not that different from a lot of boy-girl relationships.
Midori though is pure lolicon. And not the funny way IMO. Middle school kid and Post-graduate student is too different, and not in the right frame for either. That’s a full-on adult and a full-on kid.
It’s just an element I wish wasn’t there. It’s creepy and unnecessary. For a show that has been almost perfect for me so far, it makes me sad.
Yeeeeah, I don’t think this is that kind of show. Just as Serara doesn’t have a chance with Nyanta unless she is revealed to be Akatsuki’s age as well, this isn’t the kind of show to ship a grad student with a middle schooler. Thankfully. Just…yeah, thankfully.
A one-sided crush could be cute though.
I don’t think Shiroe’s immature and a villain enough to go for a middle schooler. What I mean by Loli wars was how 2 “lolis” fight for Shiroe’s attention. We all know that Akatsuki’s about the same age as Shiroe. Akatsuki easily got jealous of how close and well coordinated Nyanta and Shiroe are, both males, so it’ll be fun to see how she reacts when another “loli” like her tries to get Shiroe’s attention.
I have a feeling though that Akatsuki’s a knockout beauty and is not a midget IRL. I’m guessing Nyanta’s somewhat a lot younger than he acts in game.
I believe it’s confirmed that Akatsuki is her correct height now. Unlike most characters, she was able to pick her body after being trapped in the game, and she basically looks identical in real life.
The LNs actually confirm when Shiroe meets Nyanta that they DO look like in real life. When they became trapped their features changed. It didn’t change their specified traits like race and height, but within those it altered them to look more like they really do. Even Nyanta is mentioned to have a (cat) face with similar lines to his real face.
I had a feeling that was what it was after Shiroe and Naotsugu comment on each other’s faces in episode 1, but I wish the anime had been a bit clearer about that. And yeah, they mention repeatedly that Akatsuki is beautiful.
And I hope you’re right about your loli wars. That would be ok. Actual love rival not so much.
Well, then I have some bad news & good news for you,
Bad news,
Show Spoiler ▼
Good news,
Show Spoiler ▼
Each hall is its own zone. As he only bought the guild building (which is considered one zone), so he would not have control over the guild halls. As mentioned by Naotsugu in the first episode (I think?), the guild building contain of mostly just doors (and corridors :p, with the actual guild halls taking no space within the building XD).
This is getting better and better :D. I couldn’t resist the novel. Tried to take a peek at it and ended up reading whatever that has been translated ^^;.
Show Spoiler ▼
With this arc ending soon, I hope they use all the remaining episodes for the next arc. I can hardly wait for it to start XD.
Show Spoiler ▼
Ok I had realize a minor but glazing problem that this anime has at adapting the Log Horizon novel. Which really isn’t the anime fault – its more like how the novels are compare to anime.
At most part the anime is actually very good, not only following the original story closely but adding more flavours to the characters so they seem more alive. Example, Show Spoiler ▼
There’s are quite a few of contents getting cut out that I felt is ok but still pity its not here –
Show Spoiler ▼
Then there’s the stuffs I felt are necessary but the anime left out due to reasons I can relate, there’s already too much words as it is. –
Show Spoiler ▼
The problem I had with the show is how they decided what to put in each episode.
For example, the respawn; can’t they show someone getting killed by monster or something then respawning at the end of episode 1? Do you know how many people decided Log Horizon is a Sword Online rip-off? & how many of them shows more interest when respawn its a thing? That’s one week for them to decide to drop this anime or not. I’m pretty sure this hurts their TV rating in Japan somewhat.
Another one, there are a lot of people that find Touya’s little dance a little weird especially when his sister is crying over there. That could be fixed if they just mention his wheel chair the same episode not the next one! That scene must have seen weird enough to be holes in the story.
& then on this episode –
Show Spoiler ▼
This wouldn’t be as bad if they re-arrange the story plots a bit but as it stands chances for the anime-only viewers to misunderstand the story is only going to grow.
This isn’t a perfect adaptation, but as you said, they’re doing a pretty good job. Most of these can perhaps be pointed out as errors, but they’re debatable enough that other than a few (some of the construction of the Demikas fight were more direct mistakes) I’m willing to give them a bye. They’re adapting a REALLY complex story and they’re doing it well, so good on them.
And the people who dropped this as an SAO rip-off on episode 1 probably aren’t viewers that were going to stay around long anyway. No big loss.
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2015.jpg
In case that someone was wondering, why he is Guardian the Cathedral
Because of Corpse re spawn Camping…
But is fighting not allowed inside the City? or does the Cathedral Zone has it’s own Rules, too?
Anyway he is there for just in case. I presume
or the Little Ones, that not made it “alive” outside Hamelin Guild Halls
But is fighting not allowed inside the City? Nope Show Spoiler ▼
or does the Cathedral Zone has it’s own Rules, too? Show Spoiler ▼
It’s a “just in case” thing. In theory, all the beginners walk out of the guild hall while Hamelin isn’t paying attention, and all Hamelin veterans are stuck in the guild hall. If they get caught, and someone gets killed, they revive at the cathedral. The need for Naotsugu on standby there arises from the possibility that a member of Hamelin was not inside the guild hall at the time, but out and about instead. If someone needed to revive at the Cathedral, and a Hamelin member was not trapped, they could grabbed whoever it was when they respawned, and drag them somewhere they could be held hostage. Naotsugu being there to punch any Hamelin members that showed in the face would remove that risk.
I thought it was more simple than that – if a newbie was killed Naotsugu could protect them, and if a Hamelin member appeared he could get on with the arm twisting. Either way, the door + there are the most likely places for the newbies to appear, so they stationed people at both.
I was a little disappointed in how they did the explanation on the Guild Building. They could do it a little better. Also, the situation was a lot worst in Susukino in the LN. I guess the directors didn’t want to touch on it. Show Spoiler ▼
I thought they are rules governing that. Would not the guardian intervene? Or could it BE because the ones affected are the NPC’s?
TQ
The only thing the guards respond to is player skill use in non combat zones or basically weapon damage being caused. See Naotsugu grabbing the Hamelin guy and holding him down or what Shredder did to Tohya. So yes there was a lot of stuff that was sort of hinted at in the anime if you rewatch some of the brigandia scenes but was pretty much said in the novel, or at least heavily implied.
Shiroe actually mentions it too in the Round Table Conference, and it got a huge reaction of surprise and unhappiness to hear such a thing. Of course in the anime he just mentions them controlling the city.
TO add on to this now that I think about it, you can read the West Wind Brigade manga. Seven chapters or so are out and it has a guard confrontation in there. It’s basically still in the few days after the Apocalypse happened though so around episode one or two timeframe going by the anime.
simply put, there’s a lot of things being censored in the anime
I’ve read several chapters of the manga and there’s a lot of gruesome stuff going on in there compared
to the anime, like body parts being cut and blood everywhere, heck even attempted rape.
during the susukino arc shiroe pretty much killed the sorcerer guy execution style with a knife to the
throat while akatsuki holding the guy down
The guards don’t enforce any sort of laws. They’re mindless programs. They exist to prevent player vs player combat, where combat is defined as actions that result in hitpoint loss. That’s why Shiroe wants the Round Table to create and enforce laws. As things are right now, to speak bluntly, a woman could be raped on the street in the middle of the city, and she would have no protection from such a thing unless other human players chose to interfere and save her.
Because the anime is airing on NHK, a lot of this type of stuff has been cut, so we aren’t seeing the full impact of just how bad things really are in some places in this world. But Serara was in very real danger of being raped if she’d been caught by Brigandia back in Susukino. Susukino was essentially a place where anarchy reigned, and all the worst traits of humanity were being set on display. Without any form of control to rein them in, that sort of thing happens to societies distressingly easily.
Mindless programs?! Yui would like to have a word with you!
There are plenty of things that the I think the director wouldn’t like to touch in LH if it was to be kept “child-friendly”.
Or maybe, you know, they could just go with “some bad men did really bad things with that girl” route for the kids.
Yes they’re taking out some of the worse parts of human nature (due to the station, as mentioned), and I’d prefer them to have been kept in there, but it’s not changing the tone too much, so it’s okay so far. Things are still serious enough without them having to slip down closer to grimdark.
I actually kind of like Isaac so far. He looks like a villain, and obviously he’s kind of an antagonist here, but not actually. He didn’t walk out like the other guy. He hasn’t really said the whole idea was dumb or anything.
Mainly he’s voiced fairly logical objections to Shiroe’s plans. In that sense, he’s actually contributing to the discussion. I like that he’s not as one-note of a ‘villain’ as he seemed to be in the little glimpses we’ve gotten.
i think hes not a bad guy. just a douchebag.
He wears glasses. Therefore he is a villain.
Isaac is the guy with spike red hair
the armor glass guy is Krusty and Krusty specialize in Trolling 😀
Isaac’s a basically decent guy. He’s a little snobbish, somewhat hard to approach for low level players, but still has a line that he doesn’t want to cross. He comes down as fairly antagonistic in this episode because he’s kinda embarrassed they brought up the whole exp pot thing. Silver sword left partly because of it, but Isaac’s enough of a man to stay and own up to it. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have regrets about using it though.
That was kind of the feeling I got just watching the episode. And I like that, it makes him interesting. His design made him look like he might be another Demikas sort of figure, but this is much better.
Still curious about Krusty though.
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@KaleRylan
Heh, Krusty. Interesting guy. When I saw him in the earlier episodes, I thought he might become one of Shiroe’s rivals of sort.
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Agreed. I like that Isaac is more complex than he easily could have been. No surprise coming from Touno-sensei’s writing, though.
Interesting situation of Tohya, back to the real world and get stuck in a wheelchair, or stay in a fantasy world with your legs?
This gives an interesting plot …
Makes me think of Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over, the same thing happened with their grandpa.
and Avantar?
the road toward establishing a well functioning regime is tough.
but all starts are tough, that’s how it is. it’s tough to start something new or change the way of something, but after a first time, you get feedback and it’s become a bit easily until it’s naturally, it’s called the Allosteric-effect. Shiroe is like that first one to give the shot, to give trigger. he is like the little man sitting in our head (aka the brain) and is able to maneuver between all those inputs of what’s necessary now and what’s necessary later. that’s the kind of thing a good manager should have. Shiroe didn’t jump in to rescue the kids, he waited, little by little, like a “ninja”, and under everyone’s nose he bought that building – smart, decisive, immediate result.
it’s not so surprising, after all we’ve been watching him for about 2 months. but they are able to convey that feeling every time, and it’s still exciting.
Shiroe isn’t an idiot. he knows things want go smooth, and although he never said directly that he is blackmailing them, there is a clear image here of the carrot and stick method.
if you guys help establishing Akihabara as a nice place, then you’ll earn of it as well in the long run. otherwise, well, not only he can find someone else, but there might also be sanctions. it’s a good way of demonstrating our world sometimes.
so let’s say everyone will cooperate. is that mean everything is all said and done?clearly not.
1. Shiroe has gotten himself some enemies along this way. I don’t know about Silver Sword, but Hamelin and black sword won’t like what happened here. at all. that’s why I wonder, if those black sword are so bad, using EXP pot, they know that they are using something which isn’t good, why Shiroe bothers to have business with them? well, it’s true that they are strong guild with a lot of members..yet it doesn’t feel right, definitely since we are talking about Shiroe. but who knows…
2. this is only a first step. now that there is council, they must make rules. and it’s everyone is willing to cooperate, but you know how it is in politics, it never goes smooth, and it won’t be good to work all time with “carrot and stick” method. this was only a good thing to made everyone see the main goal. but it’s not working with inner conflicts in the group. so I wonder how they are going to establish a system of rules…
3. Shiroe still has his leverage as the guild-building owner. but he lost the bargain of the food. what else is he planning? one thing is for sure, Log-Horizon guild must grow. collect members and become stronger. maybe those twins will join. but what’s next? how is Shiroe gonna establish Log-Horizon as leading guild. and is it truly his purpose?
I wanna see some quest here. I knew the 5 million wasn’t for quest. but now I am more than ready to intriguing quest 😛
p.s
Shiroe is indeed can be a good lawyer. but that mostly thanks to his plans and thinking forward.
a good lawyer should also have Charisma. Charisma is about charm and persuasion. for sure, he isn’t that lacking in those, but if it wasn’t that great plan, and if he wouldn’t be known as “the villain in glasses”, I am not so sure if he was able to pull that plan out with his Charisma only.
BTW, DDD is another villain in glasses there. the way those guys play with there glasses. I like doing it too LOL
I don’t think you should limit him to the position of a lawyer. At the of his being, Shiroe is a strategist – a person who strategize to achieve a goal. I thin kthat definition fit him better functionally.
TQ
A harmless spoiler here Show Spoiler ▼
Thanks for the recommendation, i actually have that book of Frank Herbert, Good thing i downloaded those epub packs.
That leaves me wondering why the game was designed so that anyone could buy these buildings, especially the ones where they can monopolized and abused? Somehow, I think there has to be a point to why the game is putting the players into these situations while having the only security so far being the npcs that appear when someone fights in no-combat zones. Although I love the setting and Shiroe’s sneaky antics, I want to see how the game will evolve in response to the players and whether the game was designed to almost like their new life or as some kind of experiment(just putting those thoughts out there).
It was in the anime too but you might have missed it. Shiroe brought it up that now buildings can be bought. It wasn’t an option available when it was just a game.
People keep mentioning how ‘this game is too easy to abuse’ or whatever. Which is true, it is. Here’s the thing though. So is WoW, and EQ, and every other major MMO in existence. There are two things that stop the abuse in real MMOs:
1. oversight. If you do something terrible mods will stop you, reprimand you, or ban you for life.
2. It’s not real. It’s pretty hard to hold people hostage if they can just log off and start a new character.
The writer may not have made a perfect MMO, but it’s not too bad if you imagine it having those two things. It’s missing them though, so it’s become, as Souijirou put it, a prison. Even more, it’s a prison with no warden or guards.
@Xacual: Actually I did hear Shiroe mention that already, but I am still seeing that people can buy these important buildings when there are no gamemasters, moderators, or some kind of systemized lock to ensure the players are safe.
@KaleRylan: I think that’s how I would put it as well because I always kept in my head what Soujirou said about the game being a prison and when you consider it with no proper supervision, it becomes a cool MMO, but with a lot of risks and the inability to call moderators or log off, it all goes down towards what kind of morals people have and how like Shiroe, how to abuse the system before people with wicked intentions make the same action.
I just loved how Shiroe tricked the guild leaders, to thinking Shiroe was there to plead for their help to uphold justice. Instead he just went like “Yo whatssup I bought the guild hall, you either listen to me or lose all your $
I’m quite sure I haven’t asked this so far but how’s this adaptation faring?
As I’ve read here already, it seems some gruesome, dark and rage-inducing (thank the lords, and I’m not even religious) stuff has already been cut off the adaptation so far…
How bad was the situation in Susukino? I’d like something more explicit, if possible…
And what does people mean when they mention “Shiroe by the end of Volume 4”?
Also, Stilts, you on way to have your first novel released?
Same here! The only thing needed is the €€ to get it going…
What’s your novel about? I don’t know where to know more about it…
Thanks for asking! I talk about it more frequently on my other blog, though I’ve been a bit silent as of late because I’m trying to barrel through a difficult section, and it’s making it hard to find time to sit down and blog. I’m going to start releasing some posts that will give some further insight into the kinds of stories I like and the one I’m telling here shortly.
As for when it will be released, my goal is next year, and hopefully fairly early on. Got one last quasi-major edit to fit in, then hopefully it’ll be most of the way towards done!
“Shiroe by the end of volumen 4″… without spoiling to much, he is perceived by the Round table council, and Akiba in general, as a (villain) mastermind who control the city from the shadows,harmless spoiler:Show Spoiler ▼
Very interesting… And amusing… LOL
And what about the adaptation? How’s it faring so far?
Yeah, he will be hidden under the shade of document hill…till the end of his days XD
When can they build up a computer in the world of Elder Tales in order to free him from the paper works?
@Flamestrike
That wouldn’t be true if their guild has lots of members. He can easily assign his members to do some paper work. And his paper work is too delicate to be assigned to the People of the Land. The next arc will explain why it’s not a good idea. (The League of Freedom Cities Eastal arc)
Adaptation is really good.. The only prob is that the anime is lot lighter compare to the anime…
heck vol 1-2 = 10 episode… they can cover every little detail on that number (not everything though lol)
“Shiroe by the end of volume 4” is just a misunderstanding… It’s his nickname fault lol
It may be obvious and I think we’re all in agreement here, I would not want anyone else to cover for you on these series 🙂 So exciting, and so much energy and thought into our cherished show!
He just pushed the I win button. Now what? Admittedly I do want to see more action. Lead the charge against a ‘big bad’ unlike the anticlimax’s of SAO, but that’s not where this show seems headed toward.
Thank you : ) You’re all too kind to me, I don’t know what to do sometimes! *tear*
His declaration of his real property purchase was so cool that i didn’t saw it coming. Also, Minori and Tohya are free.
To make it short, this is the best episode so far.
So, Minori and Tohya can just leave the guild like that or do they still need to do something that formally considers them leaving the guild?
I assume you still need to do something to formally leave the guild, but given you do all that in the guild building, which Shiroe is now God of basically, that’s a foregone conclusion.
Actually the Black Sword guys are more simple, they are a bunch of heavy-MMORPG-addicted players who thinks real life is a junk. From the novel we know that their guild culture is enjoy dungeon raids, those pursue for treasures will be kick out from the guild (reminds me for some players need for everything mobs drop in WOW). So Issac will be angry of Shiroe for disgrace him during the meeting, but it won’t be long as long as he find something else fun.
From what I have read from the light novel translations, this “Shiroe buys the guild hall and trolls all leaders trick” is probably the best demonstration of his abilities as a planner and strategist.
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We’re trying to avoid spoilers here, as Stilts mentioned in the review. Yours are very minimal, but it’s still best to use tags or just not mention them.
I edited in the spoiler tag without reading (most) of it. So I dunno if it absolutely deserved it, but yeah, err on the side of caution. It’s hard to edit comments without reading them, lol
I’m not surprised that the leaders of the two most powerful combat guilds are Guardians. Main tank is a linchpin role that’s at the center of everything…yeah, probably better to lock that down yourself. One less thing to worry about.
While those Guild mastes are Guardians,they have different buildd from Naogutsu’s tanker build.Krusty use crimson Knight build that rely on his prized life-absorb weapon to to survive while Issaac rely on skill-chaining.
Sometimes Log Horizon feels like Hunter x Hunter, because both are anime based on characters doing intelligent decisions.
From last episode, 1.5 million equals to around 100 players. Now, in Akiba there are ~15,000 players. That means, at least there’s 100 million gold inside Akiba city (considering there are also newbies and low-wealth players). Which means, 5 million is not that much, actually. The problem is only how you gather that amount of gold, and how you get information about building purchasing.
I’m sure in other city outside Akiba and Susukino, there are guilds that own both Guild Building, Cathedral (which maybe also on sale, 10 million?), as well things like inn, etc.
Ok, here are some details story that might be minor spoilers or contents that the anime cut out from the novel:
Do you guys remember the 1st closing account of the sales for the Crescent Moon Burger stand? When Shiroe commended that the stores (they supposed to open 3 stores in different parts of the city at the 1st day) aren’t there to make money, “Money isn’t the point of this plan.” Supposedly before the Round Table Conference take place, a few things happened:
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I really can’t get used to the subs translation of the guild names, thankfully they fixed and accurately translated West Wind Brigade in this episode. Roderick Firm, Oceanic Systems, and 8th Shopping District are just so much better.
I love it when Villains are the good guys. It’s fun watching people work evil for the good of everyone. Shiroe is definitely one sneaky and treacherous son of a gun.
Man, the suspense is killing me. I’m hoping they finish off the other half of the important meeting. For those that have read the LN translations, the second half is just as much of a awesome bombshell as the first half (this episode). I’ll be sorely disappointed if the effects of the secret to the “secret recipe” Shiroe let out wasn’t mentioned as part of the meeting wrap up.
Each season, we’re treated to near-endless hordes of meek, oblivious, 1-dimensional, and otherwise completely terrible and utterly incompetent male leads.
For the oh-so-rare occasions when we can actually have a proactive, strong, thoughtful lead like Shiroe, I’ll just say this: Thank freaking god.
Seconded! Heartily seconded!
….I swear I’ve seen evil-Shiroe’s look before, with only a shadow, glasses, and a half-moon smile….but I can’t place it and it’s driving me crazy.
Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei? Or any Shaft series really. They like to use it
This is awesome!
Unexpected Revelation!
this anime is soo awesome!?
Now that’s a strategy – taking over the city with a leveraged buyout.
Wait, if the craft guilds can manage to gather millions of gold, why don’t they buy the guild building themselves?
Wow I was totally blown away by this episode. I started this series off without really any expectation, after finding out they won’t die from the game, I felt the tension drop and it went on my just-watch-it-for-fun anime list but this episode completely bounced it back to my mind blowing anime list. The amount of details and event that occurred in this episode is so epic, and I love how Log Horizon combines action with actual strategy that is realistic! It’s fantastic and it kept my brain awake the whole time and it’s so fresh because you don’t see many well orchestrated plot like this so this is definitely amazing, and who couldn’t come to love how moe Akatsuki is, man totally awesome!