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「彼と彼女の告白は誰にも届かない。」 (Kare to Kanojo no Kokuhaku wa Darenimo Todokanai.)
“His and Her Confessions Will Reach No One”
Oregairu is quick to remind the forgetful just what it is made of–an ambiguous moral and compelling characters, where no action is without negative repercussions. Hachiman and friends are faced with tough calls and decisions to make; seeing what choices they make the consequences they choose to face make remind me exactly why I chose to watch this show in the first place.
Though at times rushed and seemingly short on time, the second episode managed to get its main points across and flame character tensions across the board. Hachiman’s actions were very much rational–his explanation is satisfactory enough–but at what cost? Yui and Yukinon sure aren’t pleased. The thing is, Hachiman was probably very much aware of his actions this entire time and the potential consequences that go with it. He knew that staging a confession would draw out reactions from everyone watching, far from being an enclosed bubble affecting only Ebina and Tobe. What surprises Hachiman though is actually witnessing those consequences come to fruition, being unprepared for the intensity of how those close to him would react. No matter what sort of rationalizing our protagonist runs in his head, his mental scenarios will never fully prepare him for the real deal. He can feel emotions after all.
That, along with the first season, reminds us why 8Man is such a compelling character, both in isolation and in relation to every other character on-screen. While most can agree that Hachiman’s sharp attitudes towards certain aspects of life could be improved, there is some grain of truth within his biting thoughts. Though more suited to the musings of a middle-aged man, Hachiman’s justifications show a weird blend of maturity and narrow infantile views, simultaneously using his experience from life while also minimizing his own personal pain by hiding away from certain…vulnerable-inducing truths. As soon as you start adding the rest of the cast into the mix–all of whom enjoy a similar level of development–this uncomfortable yet interesting web of interactions arises.
The most interesting of those recent interactions did not arise between Hachiman and his two main love interests. Rather, it was with the clique that he so holds a personal level of antagonism against. Today’s episode was significant in that in continued to break down Hachiman’s perceptions of the people around him, through a deeper introspection of how each character behaves in a vulnerable state. For clarity, we won’t go into the specifics of each character, but I would like to use Hayama and Hachiman’s interactions as an example.
These two did not hit it off so well during the cultural festival, with Hayama despising the ideals that Hachiman represents and the attitudes he holds. In spite of this, Hayama recognized Hachiman’s ability to resolve this whole situation, hating both himself for relying on Hachiman, but also for forcing Hachiman into the very sort of situation he once denounced towards him. Whilst seeing value in Hachiman’s tactics, he simultaneously hates that sort of thinking, putting them inevitably at odds. That recognition of value though is important, since Hayama admits the merit of his natural rival, reflecting his own beliefs in the process. Perhaps in a different setting these two would get along better, but with the popular and unpopular cliques at a natural odds against one another, their animosity towards one another except in times of need is inevitable.
It is this sort of complex underpinning that the show does an excellent job at, gaining it deserved praise even if some parts feel rushed through or some comedic bits fall flat. The tensions will only get more complex as time moves forward though, but perhaps not towards a dreadful end. I look forward to seeing what this well-written show has in store for us–two episodes in and it’s looking really good.
Preview
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Awkwardness-mode activate!
This damn episode! Can someone who is more sensitive explain Yuki and Yui’s reaction?
It seemed everyone in the group had their own selfish desires but no one wanted to get their hands dirty and cause any friction so its left to Hachi to do sort it out. After S1 everyone in that group knows how he does things, really petty using Hachi to get what they want because hes the outsider.
It’s two-fold. They both care about him as a friend and as a love interest. As a friend they hate seeing his somewhat self-destructive and self-alienating methods, even if they know it might be necessary. They are caught between a rock and a hard place essentially.
Add to that the fact they both have romantic feelings for him. Not exactly a good day seeing the person you like confess to someone else (even if you know it’s fake). Nor it is fun seeing that person get hurt as a result.
Hachiman bears the brunt of the damage associated with his interactions (some of that “forced” on him) but those close to him also suffer as well.
I don’t totally get it myself.
Maybe because they hated Hachiman’s way of sacrificing himself to fix someone else’s crap. Maybe both of them don’t like the idea of Hachiman taking the bullet for his classmates who do not even consider him as a friend or a part of their circle.
Though I think some flags were raised between Hachiman and Ebina’s talk afterwards.
@Reikakou
Hachiman basically verbally abused Sagami Minami (the girl who took up the role of cultural festival committee president/chairman, but had no clue whatsoever on how to do anything revolving the position. He used reverse psychology coupled with Minami’s true social reality in order to make her feel guilty and thus do her duty as committee chair when she was needed to deliver the closing speech of the cultural festival.
You can also check out Takaii’s post on Episode 12 of the first season and use the screenshots to refresh your memory: https://randomc.net/2013/06/23/yahari-ore-no-seishun-rabukome-wa-machigatteiru-12/
You may already be aware that Hachiman, Yui, and Yukino have grown closer now and consider each other as friends (even though Yukino wrote it off that she and Hachiman would never be friends in Episode 12 of the first season). Thus, when Hachiman told Yui and Yukino that he had a plan, the two put their trust in him and believed he would set the situation right. That was when Hachiman made a fake confession to Ebina.
It was unexpected. Yui was obviously upset since Show Spoiler ▼
In Yukino’s case however she has the image that Hachiman is brutally honest in solving important matters and does not turn to superficial means. When he confessed, it contradicted everything Yukino thought Hachiman stood by. This also makes her question if she even knows who Hachiman is anymore.
If you are still unsatisfied, check out Kyakka’s in-depth thoughts about the episode (Warning: there are tidbits on later volumes mixed in): http://kyakka.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/oregairu-zoku-episode-2-pics-and-stuff-later/
In addition, Hayama was the only one who saw firsthand that Hachiman became the scapegoat during the Cultural Festival. No one else expected that would happen.
Ah I see… that’s why I felt something was off with 8man’s solution. Apparently, it was not his style that I grew accustomed to in season 1. Thanks for clearing that up.
Fucking RomCom deconstruction. It’s becoming to be more of like a ‘feels’ in every episode.
Still I forgot what happened in the cultural festival and what stunt did Hachiman pulled that alienated him from his classmates. Can someone remind me of it?
Wow, Spyro went all out there. The length of that post 😀
It’s interesting to see the various interpretations for that scene. I like Spyro’s interpretation. Though, I came across something in a Japanese thread that I had a good chuckle over: ゆきのんが説明できないんだから俺たちに説明なんて出来るわけないよ派. “Yukinon herself couldn’t explain it so there’s no way in hell we can.”
Thanks, Ichigo!
That explains what’s going on.
@ReverseTales
It’s no problem at all and you’re welcome!
You guys are overexplaining stuff. Simply put, just visualize how you would feel if the person you like confesses to someone else.
A situation like that won’t leave much in you thinking about the repercussion to the confessor.
I also didn’t really get why those two just blew up at him like that. I also read the light novel, but while it gets into a little more detail… I still don’t get it.
I mean, I think it has something to do with Hachiman’s nature of picking the most “efficient” solution, even if it gets him into trouble. But this time, I don’t think Hachiman got hurt?
It probably also has something to do with the fact that he blurted out a confession… maybe?
On a side note, I really recommend reading the light novel. It turns out that the first season, skipped out on a lot of stuff (even though it was really good). The first episode of this series starts on Volume 7, so you can read up to there without spoilers.
Thanks guys.
The fact that the confession was so clearly fake yet Yukinon went ape was weird.
You have to connect it a bit to the themes eminating from S1. In the 12th Ep. the teacher tells 8man that while he does achieve results she can’t bring herself to praise him as he does damage to himself. Also she mentions that while he might not be “hurt” those around him who care for him can be hurt by his actions.
Also the confession thing also dates back to the first season where one of the most significant traumas that he faces is actually the rejection of his own confession to a girl in middle school. The two, probably Yukinon more so, have picked up on that through their interactions so they know that despite its looks its still traumatic for him.
Of course add to that the fact that they both bear feelings for him even so it’s never a great thing to see
Hope it helps
At the end of episode 12 (first season) his teacher pretty much sums it up. Hachiman solves problems and helps people primarily by hurting himself. Now that he has people around him that understand and like him, it hurts them to watch him do it. Yui, Yukino, and Hayata being the most affected by this.
I think you misunderstand Hayata. He certianly doesn’t like 8man, and probably hates him for a variety of reasons.
@scruffy
Actually Hayama doesn’t hate Hachiman at all. In fact, it wouldn’t be a stretch to even say that he respects Hachiman. What gets to Hayama is the methods that he takes to get the desired results. Hayama disagrees with the way Hachiman does things but understands and respects that Hachiman is actually a good guy even if he employs those methods.
I was thrown aback by Yukinoshita’s rage just like Hachiman. It made more sense to me when i thought about it. Yui is her new best friend. She most likely knows like the rest of us that Yui likes Hachiman. So confessing to Ebina, Yui’s friend no less, is a big deal in a way. It sort of creates friction with Ebina and shocks her all at the same time. I really think that we saw Yukinoshita reacting to her best friend getting steamrolled more so than for her own sake. Her sister revealed to us that she’s used to losing out from relationships in season 1. I think this was all defensive for Yui’s sake. I just don’t see Yukinoshita admitting any feelings for Hachiman even to herself. I feel like she believes like Hachiman that nice relationships aren’t something that happens to them since it never has worked out. I also think Hachiman assumed since his confession meant nothing to him that Yui and Yukinoshita would also get that automatically. I think he was also blindsided by their emotions. He’s just not used to being part of a group of caring people yet.
He is Hachiman.
He is the Dark Knight
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%2010.jpg
Whenever you are in need….
“Light the signal.”
Dark Knight? More like a Lone Bear.
Remember, the trilogy was:
(1st) Hachiman Begins
(2nd) The Lone Bear
(3rd) The Lone Bear Rises
A silent introvert. A watchful student. A Lone Bear.
Damn… why Hachiman has to defuse every situation by making it blow up on him?
Also, he can’t pretend now he doesn’t see Yui’s (and, to lesser extent, Yuki’s) feelings. Those were tears of woman hurt!
Also is it me or Ebina x Hachiman flag was raised? To even more complicate things…
Thanks for your review on the episode and conveying every thought I had in mind.
Despite Hayato’s hate towards the way Hachiman solves things, he eventually went to him to resolve the matter on the one way no one would get hurt no one…. except perhaps the one willing to take it all upon his shoulders. I do not understand why both Yukinon and Yui were upset if I put myself in Hachiman’s shoes. Putting myself in his position, as a ‘person pleaser’, I never cared if blames were put on me as long as everyone felt happy. Oblivious to the fact that someone else might be upset for my sake for acting such. Though got to hand it to Hachiman and how he analyzed the situation from all angles and knowing exactly what the reason behind the request is.
I liked Hachiman’s interaction with Ebina, that was perhaps the first sign of his classmates development rather than his own realiziation of it.
Currently this idea is stirring in my mind watching this anime, ‘if something you love is going so well that you wish not to lose it, would your forever protect it and prevent yourself from doing the things you really want because you’re afraid you might lose it?” So is this a preperation for the Yui and Yukinon in the future? Perhaps.
Thanks again for your review.
Cheers,
M.
I was thinking during this second season “What made the first season so good again, what was so weird about 8man?” but this episode got me right back on track. The way he solves things while not thinking about how people will think of him in the progress is a 8man trademark. Even though I think that the reactions of the people around him were kinda exaggerated, it must be hard to see a friend not caring about himself.
I also thought Hina’s conversation with Hachiman at the end was really good. She knows that what she does isn’t right, but she’s enjoying how she lives at the moment. The words “And that’s why I hate myself” were powerful. Maybe the other people of the group have similar thoughts. I somehow do think that Hachiman hates himself too.
Btw was I the only one hoping for a confession from Yui at that “ultimate confession spot”?
if you`re used to pain, There are people who`d be hurt by watching you get hurt
Hachiman took a social grenade… yet again, and this time for a group of people he wasn’t part of, even if one of his closest friends (Yui) was in the periphery of.
Also, I realized… Hachiman sounds alot like… Hatchetman. I wonder whether this was very deliberate, since Hachiman’s basically behaving like the school’s Hatchetman – the doer of the unpleasant but likely necessary.
8man one again take the crowning glory for best male main character and/or harem lead. This episode was way too awesome to only watch it once.
It really took me a while to figure out Yui’s and Yukinon’s outrage towards 8man. Like what the rest said, the sight of seeing someone you like or call your friend (even if you deny it) doing that, it’s not cool. I have lashed out at someone pulling a similar stunt back in high school.
That closing exchange of words between Ebina and 8man, I’m not sure if I’m overthinking but just hear me out. I’m including other things from the episode as well.
1- Ebina hates herself for being a fujoshi and she feels like she’s the toxic person if she enters any relationship. I believe she continues wearing that mask since she wants the status quo to remain.
2- 8man’s closing monologue about lying and liars, about how he’s lying to maintain status quo, might suggest an internal struggle in him. I speculate that he’s aware of his social suicidal ways but he continues to be as such since any change in the status quo will bring a catastrophic change in the equilibrium around him.
3- Yui’s plea sounded more like a crying of despair to her love interest.
Speaking of Ebina…
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2016.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2016.jpg
Megane is master race… Even if it’s a yaoi loving fujoushi!!!
Comparing Oregairu and Oregairu zoku’s art style, Zoku’s style truly befits the overall tone and character traits. Now I can’t imagine watching Oregairu I now…
Was it a scenery porn made by Feel, what we’ve seen this very episode?
Let me just sum up this episode in a completely different way:
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2002.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2014.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2015.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2016.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2031.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2033.jpg
Is it even possible to not like this series?
The storytelling continues to be at it’s compelling best with 8man as the focal point. I do like how they gave screentime to the thoughts and intentions of some of the side characters though, as it fleshes them out and make them to be more than just the popular clique and natural enemies of 8man. The interactions between them and 8man are indeed becoming more and more intriguing, especially the relationship dynamic between Hayama and 8man. 2 sides of the same coin seemingly.
While ichigo has explained it brilliantly, I want to add on that Yukino has mentioned before that she hated the way 8man solves problems, but the difference here as compared to S1 is a little more stark as she has vested emotion in how 8man faked the confession. With romantic feelings in play, it’s a double-layered disappointment she had in 8man who then adds on in his thoughts during the Yui scene and at the very end about his justification being the ‘kind of deception he hated most’ and him being the biggest liar. Basically, he was going against the grain of his being by pulling off a lie just to resolve the issue. She knew, and hated him for being fake and for the confession.
8man, however, is changing bit by bit. I’m not so sure the 8man of old would have done the act of chivalry of helping a girl up, nor would he have been so affected when both Yui and Yukino voiced their disappointment separately. The thing about these changes are they seem so subtle, yet clear once you take a closer look.
Speaking of Yui, I loved the scene she had with 8man. Stirred the emotions a little, and it seems like she’s pulling ahead in the race for now too.
I don’t quite like the pacing entirely as it still feels rushed, but not much came unglued and that’s a great thing. It’s a good thing Saika popped up first or else he would have stolen half the show again. Rather than being over the top like a couple of stellar shows this season, Oregairu S2 captures attention with its focus on character interactions and development in everyday situations. Great show.
alright, onward to the next volume and see a couple of new characters show up.
(yes, the anime just finished vol 7 in two eps)
Just my 5 cents
1)The reason why he said that he’s the biggest liar of all is either the ff.
a) Based from the 1st episode(I think) of the 1st season, there’s a scene where Hikky and Yukino’s principle is “always be true to yourself” but he break his belief of that by lying to Ebina to save the relationship of Hayama’s friends it’s like he contradicts himself and break his beliefs that even Yukino (who had a same principle as Hikky) gets mad at him.
b) Remember what he said to Hayama about shallow relationships but in the end he contradicts himself by saving that goddamn shallow relationship by confessing to Ebina.
2)Remember what Hiratsuka sensei said in the last episode (not the OVA) that “Trying to not hurt others is something you can’t do. People are creatures who hurt others just by existing even if they’re not aware of it. Whether you’re living or dying, you’ll always be hurting someone. Once you’re involved, you’ll hurt someone, and even by not being involved, you might be hurting someone else as well…” TLDR; he doesn’t even know that even his friends are getting hurt seeing himself suffering like that just like in the 1st season in the School Festival arc he sacrificed himself just to save Yukino but in the end he didn’t know that there were people that will be hurt at what he have done to someone or to himself being hated by the whole school.. same as the latest episode that even Hayama feel sorry for Hikky same with Yui that she even cried that even Hikky didn’t thought about how everyone feels when he did that scene.
Hayama is Hachi’s polar opposite when it comes to how to resolve things. Hayama believes in smoothing things over and making sure everyone is happy. He’ll do well in the diplomatic corp. Hachi sees the world and people in a negative light so he resolves things by creating trouble but having it directed at him (the outsider) to defuse the situation in the group. Hayama knows what Hachi is doing and it frustrates him because it goes against what he believes in, but it also works. If Hayama was taking off a bandage he’d try to ease it off to create as little pain as possible. Hachi would rip it off without warning or consent.
As far as Ebina goes, in a sense, he didn’t lie to her since she knew what he was doing. It was all done to mislead Tobe and allow Ebina to explain herself without turning Tobe down directly. The sad part is that it could have been done by creating a situation where she could make that as a general comment to the group. All it would have taken is for someone to tease her about dating and her making the same statement about not wanting to date anyone. Hachi wouldn’t think of that because he has a need to be the scapegoat. It justifies his position as an outsider and he has a self hatred like Ebina. Yui and Yukino’s problem with Hachi is that he is at heart a good guy and they have to watch someone they care about sabotage his own well being for others.
In all seriousness, Ebina needs a special OVA all to herself…
Bare all of her apparent “rottenness” and cuteness
While each consciously chose his way of resolving things, at this point neither one can stray into the other’s path. Hayama cannot make himself a pariah, even if he wanted to; his well-developed social skills are a great tool for trying to smooth things over, but they also bind him from taking the sorts of actions that Hachiman does. Hachiman obviously works best by making himself the target to blame, but it’s impossible for him to try and smooth things over peacefully, since he lacks the social skills and capital that would require. Fundamentally, there are certain situations that one of them can handle easily, while the other cannot, and that annoys Hayama (and likely Hachiman, if their roles were reversed).
True. Both are locked into their social positions, but Hachiman’s position is tragic in the sense that he either can’t see or won’t see alternatives that don’t make him the scapegoat. Hachiman’s actions also give him an excuse for not being liked instead of it being because people just don’t like him intrinsically. As I mentioned, all Ebina needed was a forum to state her “no dating” position such that Tobe would get the point. In a sense, Hachiman was even the wrong person given his social standing. Tobe could have just sneered and thought “of course she wouldn’t go out with you, loser! She’s so nice she tried to let you down easy.” Technically, he didn’t need to be the one to instigate it but then he wouldn’t be able to be the scapegoat.
Have to agree with Bear on this. It’s hard for me to believe that Hayama was so bound by his social position that he could do nothing. Actually, he did do something. He interfered with Tobe at times, and then handed the proverbial ball off to Hachiman. “Good job”, Hayama. This was the worst kept “secret” confession. Everybody knew about it – including Ebina. As Bear says, all Ebina needed was a “forum” to state her “not dating anyone right now” policy. Is it really that hard for Miura or Yui to bring up the general topic of dating (e.g. “Hey, I heard ABC & XYZ are dating”), and then Ebina can give her “no dating policy” for Tobe to overhear? The more I think about it, the more ridiculous it all seems since this could have been easily resolved without Hachiman’s involvement. But Hayama and everyone else in the group (other than Tobe), were afraid of getting their “toes wet”, so enter the sacrifice that is Hachiman.
So…. there’s a task that needs to be done and everyone is either selfish (ie. *I* like how things are) or unwilling/unable to do what’s required…. And the ONLY one that is selfless enough and the courageous enough to do it …. gets shit from everyone else. (And believe me it takes courage to do what he did)
Hachiman does NOT deserve the shit he gets from any other characters!!!
How I despise this irrational side of society.
hey this is Bert from best western aku tiki
hhheeeyyy
I really like the teacher , she is hella cute! Poor Hachiman , why did he have to save all these people crap , if their friendship is so weak as it will get destroy by a simple confession.
The worst of them all is Hayama , you know that 8man have no choice to do that but he asked him anyway , and if i was Yukino i would slap hachiman , what a teamplayer lol if he figure things out he should’ve consult with his friend.
And then there is Komachi , her cuteness point is too high
Apart from all the bigger drama, the scene where Hachiman meets Yukino with her classmates left me wondering about their reactions.
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%2012.jpg/a>
Did the unease between Yukino and the other girls stem from her problem with other people or from the assumed love talk about Hachiman they forced her into in the last episode?
8man x Ebina flag raised! That was a sweet moment between them at the end.
Ironically, what 8man said to Ebina ‘if you say stuff carelessly, someone may fall in love with you’ is what 8man just did to Ebina in the park.
On a presentation level, Yahari has always had an interesting dichotomy for me. On the one hand, the pacing is super fast – like 2 episodes per LN volume or so fast. Keep in mind this is a character/dialog driven series. Hard to speed that up compared to action/battle scenes. Having read the LN, it does contain some “side story” parts which can be cut, but even then, with the anime’s blistering pace, meaningful material/dialog is going to be left out. And it has. Have to agree with others that the fast paced presentation is noticeable (whether or not one has read the LN), and I do think the adaptation would be better if it was more inclusive of source material/slower paced. However… What’s impressive to me is that for the (too) limited time given, Yahari makes the most of it. I’m actually kind of amazed that the staff can compress things this much, yet have the anime turn out as well as it does. Again, more time, slower pacing would help for sure, but the show deserves some credit nonetheless for what remains.
A minor point, but I did like the fact Ep. 02 included Saki being “uncharacteristically” scared in the horror house. I like her, and it was a fun moment to watch. The end confession scene was well executed IMO, especially Yui’s part. Definitely could feel the emotion with her. Even with the material cuts, I think it’s quite clear why she was so upset. Yukino’s reaction is a bit more of a mystery. This may be one example of where those material cuts start to bite back. You don’t get the same sense of character and relationship development/insight you do with the LN.
Personally, I think Yukino’s issue is primarily one of methodology (i.e. self-sacrifice) rather than Hachiman not being “true to himself”, “brutally honest”, etc. His solution to “solving” the outcast grade schooler back in S1 used quite a bit of duplicity with Hayama and Co. playing the uncharacteristic “bad-guy” role. Granted he doesn’t care about Hayama’s group’s relationships, but then again, did he really care about the cultural festival either? For me, Hachiman’s “MO” is to use the most efficient solution, regardless of whether it is socially acceptable and/or the consequences to himself. It may or may not simply involve brutal honesty, but it always involves putting him in a negative light. Whatever the fallout, he takes the brunt of it, fair or not.
“Bob” (see comment above) beat me to the punch, but I also want to note that I had a similar reaction. All that complaining towards Hachiman when nobody else had a viable, “best case” solution really stood out to me. IIRC, Hayama even mentioned something to the effect of “having to rely upon Hachiman though he hates to do so”. Worse is that it seems pretty clear that Hachiman did exactly what Hayama expected him to do – arguably pushed Hachiman to do since he knows Hachiman’s methodology. So I agree with Bob that it’s kind of BS. Hachiman solves their problems, and yet rather than being thankful, they show disdain towards him. Hayama has no reason to be upset here. Rather a polite “thank you” is due. Also, he should let Tobe in on the “secret” (seems Tobe took Hachiman’s confession at least somewhat seriously). Honestly, if Hachiman’s solutions are so distateful (and by now, people know what those are like), then solve your own damn problems.
Lastly, Hayama is an interesting foil to Hachiman. This arc showed there’s a bit of “gray” to Hayama – his selfishness when it came to Tobe’s desire to confess to Ebina (which Hachiman rightfully pointed out). Seems to me that Hayama placed his own desires (keeping the group in status quo) above his friend Tobe’s. You’re losing a bit of your “bro” status, Hayama. Won’t go into too much detail, but from reading the LN, Hayama’s a more interesting character than one might think based solely upon early parts of the story.
For me what irked Hayama was that he had to rely on Hachiman even if he knew exactly what Hachiman was gonna do. Hachiman and Hayama are basically 2 sides of the same coin. They are actually both good guys but are bound by their own philosophies. Hayama’s idea of keeping everyone happy and allowing them to do what they liked couldn’t solve the problem they were facing and he was forced to rely on Hachiman who was willing to take the bullet.
Hayama is upset because he does actually respect Hachiman and would also rather not put him in that position. They don’t hate each other but their world views do contradict and having to rely one someone who is your opposite irks you. Also add to the fact that Hayama knows that he is forcing Hachiman to bite the bullet.
He did get a thank you from Ebina and Hayama to a certain extent
@Juan: First, I may not have been clear on this, but I agree about Ebina – she did thank Hachiman and deserves credit for doing so. In fact, Tobe sort of kind of thanked Hachiman as well as Hayama, but such qualifiers are unnecessary and unwarranted IMO. No qualifiers – just thank you, and maybe try to get his name right, Tobe.
For me, I’m not so sure that Hayama and Hachiman are “2 sides of the same coin”. They are very different people with very different life experiences and very different outlooks. Totally on the other end of the social spectrum. I do think Hayama respects Hachiman, but I also think he strongly dislikes Hachiman’s way of thinking and methodology. He’s said as much before (paraphrasing): “Why do you have to do things this way?”
As I mentioned, there is some gray to Hayama as well which is not readily apparent early in the story. Personally, it makes him a much more interesting character. That being said, I think it’s clear that Hayama put his own desires ahead of Tobe’s. He didn’t want the group dynamics to change. Maybe Hayama felt like it was a lost cause anyway (which it was), but he still wasn’t honest with someone who’s supposed to be his friend. I wonder how Hayama would have reacted if Ebina was receptive to Tobe’s confession. Them dating might very likely change the group relationship. Would Hayama support Tobe then?
–“Hayama is upset because he does actually respect Hachiman and would also rather not put him in that position.”
Per above, I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second part if you mean Hayama doesn’t want to cause problems for Hachiman. I think Hayama’s reluctance is more self-centered than that. To me, Hayama regrets having to rely upon Hachiman because he (Hayama) is unable to solve the problem himself/in a manner he deems appropriate. He’s forced to go with a type of solution he doesn’t like.
As posted in my reply above to “SK”, the more I think about it, the more ridiculous the premise that Hachiman was required to solve the problem. IF (key) Ebina just didn’t like Tobe, I can understand Hayama’s and other’s concern, but that’s not the case. Getting “shot down” because “I don’t want to date anyone” is massively different than “I don’t want to date you“. One is situational, the other personal.
I have a story to share. So this girl I like and want to date likes girls too. She said she doesn’t want any commitment for the time being. What do I do? Any 8man out there?
wrong man to ask. 8man doesn’t have a girlfriend himself. come back if u want to destroy relationships.
hhhheeeyyyy
Hey this is Bert from best Western aku tiki!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So he ends up with Yui, right? RIGHT!?
Nah, Totsuka. XD
No, he’ll either marry Yukino or get brutally murdered by Haruno, kind of caught between a rock and a hard place there. 😀
Definitely going to end up with Totsuka aka Best Waifu
https://randomc.net/image/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Rabukome%20wa%20Machigatteiru/Yahari%20Ore%20no%20Seishun%20Love%20Comedy%20wa%20Machigatteiru.%20Zoku%20-%2002%20-%20Large%2003.jpg
They’ve already slept together, Hachi needs to man up and take responsibility.