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「ゴブリン王の帰還」 (Goburin Ounokikan)
“Return of the Goblin King”
As risk, fear, and what is right war within the adventurers of Akihabara, Minori stands up for what she believes in and shows her growth.
The Goblin King
First of all, let me just say that the whole Return of the Goblin King event actually sounds really fun…if this was still a game. It has stakes, and the rewards were apparently good, and it comes around frequently enough so that if you miss one you’ll have another chance before long. But what I really liked was that the mistake that led to this was so believable. They got so busy trying to make a place for themselves in the world and they haven’t set things up with the People of the Land yet, so it just snuck up on them. It’s kinda like when Naotsugu and Nyanta admitted that they forgot to add the other high-level players to their friends lists. Sure it ended up making them feel dumb, but it’s a very believable dumb when you’re not really that close to someone (yet). It’s those kinds of mistakes that really work, even if the Goblin King event did come out of left field. All the better, since it came out of left field at the characters too.
The other thing I really like is that the scale has just gone up to a new level. I enjoyed this show more when it was at a city or regional level as opposed to the dungeon crawling, and suddenly we’re at a regional or perhaps game-wide level. I could not be more pleased! This opens up the possibility of some huge battles, and by the sounds of it that very thing will be happening soon. Once again, could not be happier…I like my stories big and epic, and this is building into an especially impressive encounter.
Risk & Fear
“And failing to act, for fear of the risk, is no different than a living death. No matter what world you’re in.”
I cannot agree with Krusty’s words enough. If you’ll pardon my tangent, the ideas of risk and fear are extremely interesting to me. So many people – not in just the fantasy worlds I so love, but in the mundane Earth we all live upon – let themselves be paralyzed by fear. They balk at risk, never even considering the few intelligent risks they could take to radically improve their lives. Crappy jobs, shitty relationships, situations that ought to be untenable, yet are endlessly endured because they’re familiar. People balk at risk as a matter of course.
I wholeheartedly believe this is wrong. Taking intelligent risks – and sometimes even stupid ones – is what makes life worth living! Without putting yourself out there, without stepping up and fighting even if there’s a harsh price you may very well have to pay, isn’t living at all. Here Krusty shows his maturity, because while the younger and more inexperienced Shiroe became unsure at the thought of people paying a price for his decisions, his decisive decision-making being curtailed in the process, Krusty stood up and proclaimed that they must fight anyway. That’s the maturity of an adult right there. Krusty shines again.
The Newbies’ Resolve
As you all no doubt remember, I had some cross things to say about the newbies last week. I was not, let me reiterate, saying I don’t like them – I merely didn’t like how they were being used. This week I very much liked how they were used. They brought the youthful naivete that got the ball rolling on defending Choushi. In fact, it was the high-level players that I was a bit questionable on, since they were holding back from defending Choushi even though they (I’m assuming) hadn’t heard about the risks of death yet. In the absence of that, what reason is there to not defend the town? Other than the EXP penalty, but that’s totally worth it if you are saving lives and (you think) you’re risking nothing else.
What the newbies realized is something that adults frequently forget in the hustle and bustle of doing the “correct” or “smart” thing – you don’t need a reason to help someone. You do it because it’s the right thing to do, and that’s the only reason you need. Now the doll (trope!) wasn’t a particularly subtle way to get across the gravity of the situation, but it was effective, and by that time it was clear. I very much liked that the newbies were willing to march off and fight before even that.
Marie-nee’s Guilt, Isuzu’s Worry, Lenessia’s Gloom, & Minori’s Resolve
It’s sad that I have to mention this because it should be the rule rather than the exception, but the female characters in Log Horizon truly are outstanding, as this episode showed. Marie-nee’s guilt over the whole invasion shows her large heart and the responsibility she feels for everybody, though I personally couldn’t help but squee a little bit when it was Naotsugu that got her smiling again. Isuzu was clearly worried about Rudy the entire time, and her near-panicked concern from him…well, I just have to give props to Matsui Eriko for the excellent acting job. She really brought Isuzu’s fear to the fore.
But female characters being strong because of their relationship with a male character can happen even in stories that fail the Bechdel Test. A better example is Princess Lenessia who, though she has certainly been influenced by Krusty, isn’t acting solely out of concern for him like Isuzu is. She’s not (only) a maiden in love, it feels like she’s really preparing to stand up and grasp the freedom and the purpose she desires. Best of all though, is Minori. I still feel like sections of the newbie’s growth were skipped (lost in translation, really…I’m told they were in the source material), but the effects of that growth are clear, especially in Minori. She has no real romantic interest, she’s not an accessory to some guy, she’s her own character, and she stood up at the end and came up with a good, Shiroe-level strategy. If they can’t defend the town, what is there to do?
Easy: attack. Offense is the best defense, and the goblins can’t attack the city if they’re all dead. I got chills when the ED was playing and Minori unveiled her plan. She has grown so much.
Looking Ahead – Princess Lenessia Stands Up, Up, Up…
Speaking of growth, it looks like the lazy Princess Lenessia is going to stand up and do what she wants to do to help the world. Freedom truly does take resolve, and I look forward to seeing Lenessia show hers.
tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – Risk, fear, & doing what is right are the name of the game as the Goblin King rises & Minori stands to fight #loghorizon 16
Random thoughts:
- Serara is such a kid, d’aaawww!
- Adventurers are free. They don’t need permission. If anything encapsulates why I find the idea of adventuring so wonderful, it’s that.
Check out my blog about storytelling and the fantasy novel I’m writing at stiltsoutloud.com. The last four posts: Unveil an actuality, Stupid monsters, Don’t break the chain, and Nerds & the miracle of human consciousness. My current combo counter: Editing chain, 8 days long. Writing chain, 0 days long.
Full-length images: 09, 13, 21, 30.
Preview
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next is next yeah!
It makes me want to play an MMORPG game and kill some goblins.
they killed loli npc girl i say kill them all!
next is COUNTERACTION RISING!!
I remember a discussion about the fact that Landers don’t leave corpses, and that doll will be the only evidence that the child ever existed in the world.
Wow, that’s some dark stuff. Looks like death is a lot more serious than ever…
Better episode than last week, the focus is once again on the world itself rather than a small part of it. Interesting that the calamity occurring is due to a missed quest rather than something else (sad face). Correct me if I am wrong though, but I thought that the People of the Land stopped giving quests following the Apocalypse? If so it would make this the fault of the NPCs rather than adventurers. Likewise curious when they’re going to expand on the “static” game system after teasing us with the inability to add new people to friends lists.
As an aside Serara is now total puppy dog, when she hugged Marie all that was literally missing was a wagging tail.
Not “people,” just Rudy. And judging from her behavior this week, Isuzu clearly has a very strong suspicion (if not outright confirmation) of what that means.
Hmm guess you’re right, made the assumption because none of the others have added anyone else to their friends lists.
@Pancakes again assumption that ‘everyone’ didn’t add others to friendlist. But in the scene Nao & Nyanta only said they ‘forgot’ to add.
Well at least I remember that part, not completely ignorant thankfully 😛
This is probably just one more case of “covered better in the LN” as we (to my knowledge) haven’t had a full explanation of these mechanics yet in the anime.
@Pancakes: Kamui04 is right. There’s seems to be too much made out of that one short scene. Naotsugu and Nyanta simply didn’t think about it. The situation that is occurring now is one outside of any of the adventurers experience or expectations. Even Shiroe was taken by surprise initially. So it’s not hard to imagine both of them didn’t “prepare for the worst” by adding extra people to their friends list.
– Correct me if I am wrong though, but I thought that the People of the Land stopped giving quests following the Apocalypse? If so it would make this the fault of the NPCs rather than adventurers.
TL:DR = you’re wrong. The anime follows the LN in that what happened is that the adventurers were preoccupied with other things (i.e. trying to level up past 90th level (remember the whole XP potions deal), and adjusting to their situation in general (food, round table, etc.)). They simply forgot about quests. So if there’s any “fault” it lies upon the adventurers for not seeking out and accomplishing quests as they had done when it was just a game. IMO their “failure” to do so is quite understandable given their situation. It’s just one of those unfortunate things that happened as a byproduct of getting sucked into the game. Personally, I don’t assign any blame to either party (NPC or adventurer).
Forgot to mention that as I recall, the “friends list” mechanics in the anime follow the LN closely. In other words, the LN did not “handle it better”. Leaving at that to avoid any potential spoilers.
TY for the explanation daikama, don’t remember much of the earlier episodes so I’ve been going off of what I can recall 🙂
Piling on to correcting your assumption of the friends list functionality, is the fact that in the earlier episodes Serara was added to the Brigandia leader’s friend list after the Apocalypse occurred.
I liked the setup of this episode. It seems leaving quests undone has consequences. I do hope this builds the relationship between Eastal and Akiba.
At the same time, Scrub Horizon’s training makes more sense now eh? We needed to see their personal growth in order to believe that they can participate in the Guerilla War defending Choshu. Because without it criticisms of how the B Team just “magically” is able to stand up against mobs will crop up.
Anyways I can’t wait to see the strategies and tactics developed in this first full scale raid that the Adventurers of Akiba will run. So exciting.
You are both right and wrong. Very few people said that we didn’t see need to see the newbies’ character growth. The issue with the last episode is that it was poorly done. Everyone knew where they were going with it. That was never the question.
This episode was just much better all around. Necessary and entertaining are not actually synonyms.
^In my opinion
Indeed. I like the character development the newbies have been given now that it’s done, it just wasn’t always shown in the best way possible. Time limitations and all that.
Log Horizon is so good… I need my next fix!
Guessing by the OP, Minori is going to get Rudy killed.
Not that it’d be her fault. He was going with or without the Adventurers. It’s personal for him, after all.
COUNTERACTION RISING
Ugh, stop it. Dear god people. Think about what you say and how you say it.
If you’re talking about Show Spoiler ▼
, it’s complete guesswork from me since I haven’t been spoiled but the show has all but said it out loud.
Show Spoiler ▼
I feel like there’s a point where the show is slapping you in the face with it without actually going “HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT.” It’s no longer foreshadowing, it’s been revealed, they just haven’t actually acknowledged it openly.
you have to have been blind or dense not to notice it IMO
regardless, I will apologize and try to be more considerate in the future.
Thank you, I appreciate your reasonable response. And frankly, I think this is one of those things that’s hard to judge once you already know. Of course clues seem obvious when you know the answer.
My brother and mother(I’m fairly surprised, I mentioned it to her over the phone and she thought it sounded cool, so she’s been watching the whole thing)actually watch this show, and do not know spoilers, and they have not figured it out.
So I don’t think it’s quite so obvious to people that don’t know.
Show Spoiler ▼
Minori gaining confidence in “strategizing 30 seconds in advance” is really giving me the chills. It’s the new Shiroe in the making. She’s definitely catching up to him!
Great character development on her part. I’m almost in tears watching her grow from helpless little chick into something more than a newbie.
Same. THIS is what I wanted to see from her last week. And while I still think it was handed crappily last week (easily my least favorite episode of an otherwise amazing show) here it was handled perfectly. Here she became a badass and Tohya became a hero. They stepped into the shoes of their mentors (shiroe and nao, respectively) for the first time and it was great to see.
I Agree with you Both
But then not everybody has this Skill of looking 30secs ahead. If you are very good in Improvisation, your good, too
a 2nd Mc Guyver if you want… 🙂
We all know the reason why Isuzu is worried, I just feel like the anime got a bit too excessive on how they portray it.
But they did a good job portraying the heroic spirit of Minori’s party do all is forgiven.
I personally think people are overplaying the role of ‘romance’ in Isuzu’s fear. Several characters were against, or at least hesitant, to help in this episode, not just the girl in love.
I just don’t think Isuzu’s as brave as the twins and Rudy. This doesn’t make her a bad person, it just makes her different. She’s not an inherent hero. The twins and Rudy are. I’m okay with that. I actually think it makes it more realistic when not every character is superhero at heart. Some people are just afraid of fighting.
Isuzu had nothing to fear for herself, her fear is for Rudy. Because she knows his secret. Still even then it felt a bit exaggerated. Like she was so sure Rudy would get hurt.
Yeesh people, is it that hard not to turn every single post in to a hint/half spoiler?
And I stand by my belief, I think she’s afraid in general. And yes I know the freaking spoiler thanks to the 45 hints in ever review for this show. I still think she’s more generally afraid.
Afraid of what? She can’t die.
So then since she can’t die, she can’t be afraid for herself. The only logical thing to think is that she’s afraid for Rudy. And if the OP is any indication, it’s for a good reason.
Also there is no such thing as a half spoiler. There are also nothing on my post to hint something unless you know about the hints given two episodes ago. When the show itself is trying to spoil the show it’s hard not to talk about it without spoiling it.
Unless you just want to not talk about the show. That’s fine with me: we can talk about a certain regular here who is actually a harem MC. I like harems.
You’re taking this no spoiler thing too far.
@Moondoggie
I don’t know what you’ve mentioned is a spoiler or not as the only Log Horizon material I’m exposed to is the anime, but from what I’ve seen, I don’t see any ‘secrets’ per se. If like isuzu, rudelhaus is an adventurer, there is nothing whatsoever to fear. The OP merely indicates that he ‘dies’ (though he might subsequently be revived).
@Moondoggie: Is death the only thing in life anyone fears? If you removed death no one would be afraid of anything anymore? That’s ridiculous. Especially when we know something basic: they still feel pain. For a lot of people, pain is frightening. And we’re not talking about stubbing your toes here. If they get their arm cut off, they feel it. If they get stabbed in the gut before they die, they feel it. That is more than enough to fear.
And I’m not even judging all of that. I’m just going off the show. She rarely directs her fear straight onto Rudy. She can’t figure out why ANY of them want to go fight. It is never presented as fear for Rudy, it is presented as fear. But anyway, agree to disagree.
I really hate that line of thinking. (Not you Kale, just the thought.) A natural hero? BS. Heroes are by their nature opportunists who are either scared out of their minds but do something great anyway, or someone who has been trained to only be mostly scared out of their minds and still act anyway (see: police, firefighters, etc). Tohya and Minori aren’t natural heroes any more so than any of the adventurers. They’re just used to it. They’ve had practice.
As for Isuzu, she’s definitely scared not for herself, but for Rudy. I find it hard to swallow that Isuzu would be scared where Serara isn’t, save for that one important detail.
Right? Izusu has an crush on him….
I recognized the empathy doll shot for what it was, but it still worked fairly well anyway, so good enough, I guess.
Nice quotable material there, Krusty, I like it. It also wouldn’t hurt to remind them that the People of the Land are going to have to fight to defend their homes, their people, their lives… and when they die they die. Like hell it doesn’t concern you, Isaac, this is an event™. By definition it is a problem adventurers are meant to deal with. Yes, we know what the reasons were that it wasn’t dealt with before now, and they make sense. But now real, living people are dying, or will die, forever, because of it. It is your responsibility, whether they asked for your help or not. Particularly since it seems their own protectors, the Knights of Izumo, have gone missing.
Phew. Anyway. Looking forward to more Lenessia next week. You go take a stand, Hime!
To Wanderer:
Novel Spoiler
Show Spoiler ▼
Hmm? They told us both this episode and in a previous one that no one was able to get in touch with the Knights of Izumo. That isn’t news.
So not only does Marie’s armor focus on protecting her assets, it does so without being the slightly silly looking form fitting versions you see so often.
It’s still pretty minimal in terms of armor, but yeah it’s nice to see a simple breastplate that looks like it could actually take a hit, isn’t it?
Though, frankly, smart enemies would just stab her in the gut or head. But hey, it’s a start.
Wouldn’t be surprised if that was another case of making the show kid friendly and unlike what she looks like in the novel.
I looked at the LN images a while back and I believe that is the same as the pic in the LN. The only outfit I think they changed was the beach thing where she did have a bikini. I haven’t read the LNs though, just looked at some pictures so I could be wrong.
just fyi, it’s only in one picture where Marielle is wearing just the bikini. if you read the chapter itself, she IS wearing what we see in the anime
See, there you go. I didn’t know that.
Ooo, nice to know. Thanks. I guess that just solidifies her “den mother” image, lol
Well, She is a “Raid Cleric”. They focus on Mana or Healing rising abilities…
a “Solo/Group Cleric” is like more a Paladin. Protected with Heavy Gear and a Blunt Weapon.. So, i am fine with that
She has confidence in her members and Allys, that they cover her back.
Well, imagine a Shogun in a Western Mediaeval’s Knight Armor, with a Blunt Weapon.. Thats a Group Cleric for me
“you don’t need a reason to help someone”
i agree with reasoning but what i see in the episode is that what will be the implication of it
let’s accept the fact that the villagers will be grateful heck even the nobles for protecting their territory
but … what would be it’s effect after the scrimmage with the demi-humans
1. basing from the map i think akiba would be really far from the goblin’s war path … meaning they really don’t have a reason to help just like isaac says plus it will give a vibe to the nobles that “they’re not part of the league of cities, why help” “they’re just showing off how strong they are, next time it will be us they will be after”
2. it will form an act of misunderstanding of inferiority on the POTL with “hey we save your asses so don’t go act all almighty on us”
3. it will look like a debt you didn’t ask for … how would anyone feel if they become indebted without warning
let’s not forget that shiroe and co. wants to build a positive relationship with POTL and IMO helping without a reason is not gonna help them attain it
my guess is that they will wait till someone ask them for help
and with that OP and next episode PV i think princess Lenessia would fit the role perfectly
I think you’re digging a bit too deep. And you’re ignoring an important factor.
The Adventurers ARE superior. They are explicitly immortal and superhuman, physically superior to the normal Landers in every way as far as we know. So any resentment for being inferior is already there, and justified. They are not equals and they never will be. In that situation the adventurers are better off showing they’re not a threat than just standing aside and saying ‘well, not our problem.’
let’s see it on a lander’s point of view
before
lander —> quest —> adventurer —> reward or sort
a simple transaction … the lander not feeling a bit inferior because they know they are giving something of equal worth for the service they done but after the apocalypse they saw that the adventurers don’t need they’re assistance anymore (money, fame, magic item) with the tech advance they saw in akiba thus creating a feeling of inferiority … i think shiroe know that the impression that the landers towards the adventurer is STILL reparable so i think that he wont do any rash decision to make the “wound” they unconsciously made deeper …
They need the Landers…
Alone Adventure sure can handle. But in the End, it is the Landers that give them Quests and Food and bank Service. All kind of “Office” Work are Landers doing. So their City need the Landers for Working
Like some countries need the migrant workers for building or running economics (Saudi Arabia, China and other country’s)
I don’t think ‘giving a quest’ would make me feel equal to the immortal demi-gods.
They can get food and money themselves, and the Banks are only one specific group of Landers that are relevant to adventurers, and even then they don’t necessarily need them.
They may survive on their own without the Landers help after all they are stronger but looking at the bigger problem that “how” and “why” are they in Elder Tale and how would they return to their original world.
Let’s not forget that the reason they accept the invitation of eastal is to get information and that information comes from the people of the land … how would you get info on the land your stepping? the smartest choice is acquiring it from the people living in it before you
I agree with Exis. Now, Minori and her group can save Choushi without a reason – that’s small enough that they can do it just because they want to do it and they’ll even likely be thanked. But if all of the adventurers of Akihabara mobilize and deal with the invasion, it would make the Landers feel indebted to them, and that’s likely to make them resentful.
Take it like this. Say your car breaks down and you need some money to fix it. You’re willing to work for it, but a rich friend of yours just flits over and throws the money at you. Now, some people will go “lucky!” and forget about it, but this isn’t some stranger, some magical windfall – this is someone you know. You’re liable to want to pay them back. You were willing to work for it, right? Now you feel indebted to them, and if there’s not a way to pay them back, resentment can grow.
Put it another way – yes adventurers have generally superior stats and they’re functionally immortal. That doesn’t mean they’re better, in the same way a rich person’s money doesn’t make them better. It just means the adventurers are stronger, faster, tougher, more powerful, more durable, and they can’t die. That’s not the same thing.
The transaction of the quest keeps things equal, because betters don’t enter into contracts with lessers. Betters do what they’re going to do regardless of what the lessers want. No, the quest keeps things equal. You’re not better, the Landers can think. You’re just different. I’m employing you. In a way that even makes me better than you, so that makes us equal.
It’ll be interesting to see if/how Shiroe and co approach this.
I didn’t find this very believable. Once the Round Table had been formalized, one of the first things they would have done was make sure everyone was friends with everyone else. It should have been similar to the logistical steps taken in the formation of a new government in the real world. There would be no way around this – it’s absolutely necessary, and I can’t imagine them actually having forgotten to do so.
Is this also why Shiroe couldn’t just telepathically transmit a message to everyone? That whole scene with the other Round Table representatives repeating Shiroe’s message to different groups seemed strange. Are you only able to send a message to one person at a time?
i also find this questionable …
especially with naotsugu, from what i remember he was talking with marielle back then (forgot which episode) with the crab topic so meaning he should have marielle in her friend list … or maybe marielle have naotsugu in her friend list but naotsugu not the other way around ? from what i know if you add someone it’s automatic that the other adds you as well
with shiroe’s case i think it,s kinda believable especially if there is no group chat (since i think ET is base on old school MMORPG back in the early 20’s, well i don’t know if they have group chat back then so apology if my assumption is wrong), or if there is group chat then maybe shiroe didn’t add the representative of the Round Table (and that would be great great great carelessness for shiroe)
Telepathy is indeed one to one only, hence the need for a relay system, Shiroe was shown to have most of the main characters on his friend list in the first few episodes already, so not having people added is not the issue.
As for the friendlist, it’s one sided. So you can add someone, but they don’t have to add you, in fact they wouldn’t even know that you just added them.
They couldn’t reach Marielle or Shoryuu. They mentioned that. It was the other people who were at the training camp that they didn’t have on their lists. It wasn’t a question of having the Round Table members on their lists, it was the training camp group, many of whom are in guilds that are part of the Round Table but who were not specifically Round Table members themselves, who Nyanta and Naotsugu didn’t have on their lists.
One of the small things that didn’t make it to anime was the fact that during the incident at the beach, Shouryuu and Marie were talking via the message system all the time. That’s why neither of them could be contacted.
Thank you,
This was my only question, and now you’ve answered it.
As to people basically saying ‘mistakes can’t happen’ and ‘it’s necessary to setting up a new government’ well… you apparently don’t follow the news much because even real governments make dumb mistakes and these are not smart politicians, these are young adults who are just bumbling through. Nao in particular is a guy who hasn’t played in years that just got on again one day out of bad luck. Accidents happen.
@anony
now that explains it thanks … i kinda wish it was shown in the episode though
@Exis: You’re welcome
Well, it’s kind of related to Marie’s fight scene being cut too I guess… :/
i think it’s believeable if you forgot to add someone to your friend list. i mean, sometimes i too forgot to add the people i often partied and talk with during my mmorpg days. it’s like, because you meet ’em everyday you forgot that there’ll come the day when you can’t met ’em face to face, so i think maybe that logic can be applied here?
I agree with your point though I think it goes beyond that. Granted there are some (like Karashin, guild master of Shopping Street 8) who might have hundreds on their friends list, but personally I would find that quite cumbersome. So I think it could be either they forgot, or they simply didn’t see a need to add all these extra adventurers (who are really acquaintances) to their friends list. Both Nyanta and Naotsugu are “solo” type/non guild players (pre Log Horizon) so attitude fits with their personality IMO.
Also, Nyanta and Nao aren’t members of the Round Table, they just work for one of its members.
Yeeeeah, if they added every adventurer in Akihabara to their friends lists, not only would they have to go and meet every single damn one, but their friends lists would become nightmares that would be impossible to navigate. Yes they should have added the people they were working with to their friends lists, but that’s where forgetting comes in, which is very reasonable to me.
Have you ever forgotten before? Happens to me. I’ll allow Naotsugu and Nyanta the same luxury.
There is a limit to a number of people on friend list, around 400 maybe.
pretty good episode this week i can’t wait until next week and hopefully they won’t showcase fruity tooty for a while. i still can’t stand the guy.
Minori just need a glasses and she’s good to go
OK, that made me LOL (and I agree 100% BTW). +!
Glasses with spirals would add to great comedic effect.
http://imgur.com/Hn8QSma
OMG that was so funny… poor Shiro completely broken by how Minori mimicked him… Akatsuki cheering him up is the icing on the cake!
Hah! That was awesome. Minori is so good she can do it even without glasses :3
i dont know why they make Nyanta look very calm and enjoy this event in the anime version.
in LN he is fucking serious and stressful after he saw the goblin army
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=File:Log_Horizon_Vol04_057.png
Thanks for the info. I think it’s another case of “lost in translation”. Definitely I’m going to read the LN, after the anime ends.
No its not *lost in translation*, the atmosphere is the same in the LN (i remember its stated in the LN that they are “calm” in general). They are calm because they can go back to Akiba anytime using “Call of Home” item. Its stated also in the anime that its the last resort. They bear no risk to face the goblin. Its more on their conscience to defend the People of the Land with no reward what so ever.
Yeah, this is a moral conundrum, not an actual case of them being in danger.
Well, what you expect? Adults happy dancing in joy, if they know that someones are going to die? Okay, most of them you see are just TV Propaganda…
Adults know the Pain of taken someone else Life or losing….
Only now I did realise it probably is Lenessia in armor leading her army in the OP!
I guess Krusty did rub off his attitude on her, indeed!
Gosh this OP is spoilerific… first Murlocs, erm, Sahuagin and now this!
I agree, but it’s not just Log Horizon. Maybe it’s always been like this, but for me it seems like the trend lately has been for greater spoiler in OPs and that is A N N O Y I N G! There’s NO reason to have some of those scenes in the OP. I seriously don’t get why directors/producers are either so oblivious or so uncaring in this regard. Surely they must realize to some extent that not every viewer is familiar with the source material (or all viewers for anime original), and they would prefer not to be bombarded with obvious spoilers. :<
wholeheartedly agree on this… But there are various “levels to that too”:
There are those that make it painfully obvious (not sure but maybe Golden Time’s first opening in regards to first few episodes?),
those that show stuff so anyone can be spoilered if they pay attention (Log horizon),
those that try to make the OP be some sort of poetic(?) version of the events (Strike the Blood)
and those rare cases that are completely cryptic and nearly impossible to figure out (Monogatari series in general).
Yeah, this OP isn’t really that spoilerific frankly. We say that now because we know what it’s pointing at, but in the beginning all that meant to us is ‘there will be monsters at some point’ and ‘these are probably important characters’ and stuff like that.
I would actually say this was a fine case of an OP that teased a lot, but did it in a way that doesn’t make any sense if you don’t already know what it’s teasing. The easiest thing to figure out was who will be members of Shiroe’s group/guild.
@KaleRylan: Yeah, this OP isn’t really that spoilerific frankly.
Disagree. IMO there’s actually a pretty big spoiler in the OP, but not going to say anything else for that very reason.
It’s only a spoiler if you know what it means. Otherwise it’s a completely random scene. Seriously, go ask someone who doesn’t already know the spoiler what any of the images in the OP mean and I will bet you money they will have no idea what it actually means. Unless ‘I think they’re going to fight fish people’ counts as a major spoiler.
People have been so terrible about spoilers and ‘hints’ and other such crap on these reviews that we’re all getting confused about a legitimate clue or teaser as opposed to a spoiler.
It’s only a spoiler if you know what it means.
No, it’s a spoiler that someone who has has NOT read the LN (stated that) already pointed out, and that person was not the only one. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean that other NON-LN readers haven’t.
I didn’t and am not going to specifically mention it because if I do, the people will complain that I’m giving out spoilers. Damned if I do and damned if I don’t…
Ah, so you’re telling me that, at episode 1 after seeing the OP this person was able to watch the OP and figure out the deep secrets of the show? Because that ‘spoiler’ you’re hinting at has been there the entire time.
1. If they did figure it out at episode 1, then good for them. Because it wasn’t clear in the slightest so basically it was just dumb luck.
2. If they figured it out in the last 3 or so episodes, then congratulations, that’s what clues are for. And the thing is, if people would just stop spoiling and hinting at everything, there ARE enough clues in the show and OP that most people would have figured it out by now. But we can’t discuss the MANY clues in the show because there are too many spoilers floating around.
It’s not a spoiler if you had to watch the show to figure out what it meant, that’s the whole point of an OP.
@KaleRylan: Ah, so you’re telling me that, at episode 1 after seeing the OP this person was able to watch the OP and figure out the deep secrets of the show? Because that ‘spoiler’ you’re hinting at has been there the entire time.
O.o… I don’t get that. Spoiler = revealing in whole or significant part some major plot item before it actually occurs. Under your logic, if I posted a spoiler right now which wouldn’t make sense all the back when the anime started, it wouldn’t be a spoiler for that fact alone.
I’ll make up an example: If the OP flashes scenes where Shiroe and Marie-nee are fighting each other to the point each is bloodied (i.e. you know it’s a serious fight), then yeah, I would consider that a spoiler. Even if I didn’t know who the hell Marie-nee was until EP 02 or 03 and the fight didn’t occur until the very last EP, it’s STILL a spoiler IMO because, thanks to the OP, you KNOW that fight is coming up at some point.
The real issue is that there is NO need for those types of scenes. There are OPs which are very well done and have ZERO spoilers. It just takes more effort, not a lot, but some.
Well instead of seeing as a spoiler, lets agree that its a “teaser” XP… i read the LN and i am excited to reach some scene in the OP and still shocked and excited… Log Horizon is not shallow, it has deep stories going on… and I haven’t yet to see the LN Volume 6 translated T~T *Sigh*
@daikama: No, that’s not a spoiler. A spoiler is literally giving away a secret. By your explanation nearly all posters, book covers, previews, trailers, and (of course) anime OPs are just spoilers.
Like you said, there are some exceptions that are more artistic than preview-y, and I’m not actually saying those are bad, those can be great. But a bunch of unconnected images with no context that do actually come from the show are not spoilers. It’s like screenshots of an upcoming game. They’re not spoilers unless they are actually spoilers.
And very little in this OP reveals anything if you don’t already know what it means. You know there’s various monsters, some battles, a number of major characters, it’s not all happy, etc. But none of it has any context, you can’t actually tell what any of it really means in the show. The closest thing it did was basically give you a list of ‘these characters are important’ to watch for.
It even over-played a lot of things. Demikas seems far more important than he is from that OP. Random images are not spoilers unless their meaning is obvious. And to most people who don’t know the spoilers (and before the various clues we’ve seen now) the images in the OP are not clear enough to tell them anything specific about the show.
And yes actually, if I have to get to the scene you’re talking about (or the OP is showing) to understand what the hell you’re talking about, then I wasn’t spoiled, because I watched the scene in question not knowing what was going to happen. Pictures are good for this since you don’t know the context. Words are bad since they’re clearer.
You’re all missing the reason for spoilerific OPs – the business reason. While the story may be enhanced by at most subtly hinting, and often not even that, these kinds of OPs have the advantage of enticing viewers to watch the show without much additional effort on the part of the producers. It’s the same reason why movie trailers often give away all the best damn parts of the movie, only set to music.
Also, spoilerific OPs are not new. Not in the least.
OP’s are a two side Sword. You need one Side to attract the Spectators. Well at last it is the “Doormat” for undecided. And the other Side is Spoiling the Mass…
Rudy Dies because he’s an NPC.
See I get it, I haven’t read teh LN and I’ve seen rudy die like 16 tiems each time the OP played.
Since I was paying attention to the story, I knew he was an npc as soon as they mentioned that “npcs don’t come back when they die.
The uptight sand-in-vagina people crying “spoiler” need to smoke some more pot and stop being nerds. If someone wants to discuss what’s been “spoiled” by the OP of the show 16 times, and pretty much as been explain. Well it’s his right to do so. You can bitch and complain all you want, and while HE may capitulate and bend to your WHining, I surely am not.
Get over it.
So.. what happens to someone that died too may times? Do they become “People of the Land”? Since they lost all memory of former world, and become fully involved in Elder Tale world…
Could Izumo Knights have former members of Adventures?
No. People of the Land are fundamentally different from Adventurers in more ways than just not having knowledge of Earth.
It’s also worth noting that the Knights of Izumo existed before the apocalypse, as did the other such groups. In fact, since the Apocalypse we have heard that the People of the Land haven’t been able to get in touch with the Knights at all.
From the Sound of it here, these Knights are just “GM”‘s or “Dev”‘s that run Server Events… “Battles that changed the Fate” and so on.. I bet, that somehow even GM’s or Dev’s are Prisoner in this world. they just forgotten their old “Job” or their God like Powers
Show Spoiler ▼
I haven’t read the LN, but while pausing through the OP I spotted the headless knight-like beings (right after the part where Krusty and Isaac are standing back to back, and just before Regan) and wondered if those could be the Izumo Knights.
…or not. I just looked it up and it’s the Royal Guards that prevent Players from attacking other players within the city confines. My bad.
The Identity of the Goblin King
http://youtu.be/IM3lDtehW3Y
I’m on board
All hail the Goblin King! Also, get that man some real pants.
I agree this was a good episode, arguably one of the better ones, but I thought it was a bit heavy handed in some ways. Primarily, it was the way the anime split the newbies and the “veteran players” into diametrically opposed groups when it came to Choushi. IMO, the veteran players came off as too “meh, who cares/not our problem” when the topic first came up.
Naotsugu, Nyata and Marie-nee are not that uncaring for the plight of others – whether adventurers or People of the Land (“PotL”) Yeah, I’ve read the LN so I know that’s generally how it goes, but I’m speaking in terms or subtly, or in this case lack there of. I would have expected them to give more of a “we’d like to help, but there are xyz issues/concerns in doing so.
The doll scene would have been fine with me (effective method of imagery if a bit formalistic) if they left the burial part out. O.o. Didn’t get that at all. Personally, I would have expected Tohya to just take it with him. I’m sure Minori could do patch it up just fine since she can make leather armor (IIRC she’s like a 32nd level tailor). That way Tohya could return it to the little PotL girl after the battles are over (assuming she lives) for a nice feels scene. Oh well.
Even so, these are relatively minor complaints on my end and certainly not enough to take away from what was otherwise a solid EP (IMO). I do wonder about the pacing as we wrap up this arc. It still feels a bit fast – certainly faster than some of the early episodes and there’s a LOT of airtime left. My guess is that the pace will slow down considerably the next few episodes as the anime takes it’s time with the upcoming battles. We’ll find out soon enough, and however it plays out, it should be a fun ride.
Um… the entire point of the scene is that the goblins have just finished destroying said girl’s home, and that the girl is dead. That’s why he buried the doll. Since bodies fade away, the girl doesn’t even have a body to bury.
Building off of what Wanderer said, you have to remember the demographic Log Horizon is being targeted to as well. This show is not meant to show death and destruction to the degree found, say, in Hellsing or Black Lagoon; the doll here provides that vivid reminder of just what was lost to the attack that otherwise would be shown as a bloodied corpse. Tohya buries it because that is all that’s left of her to remember. Similar to how some people (ex. soldiers) are buried in effigy because they have no remains to stand in remembrance of. The doll is this girl’s effigy.
Not having the burial scene would take away a key point of seriousness and development in the committal of the newbie scrubs to eliminate the goblin threat.
@Wanderer: Are you 100% sure she’s dead? She might be or might not be. Perhaps I missed something, but IIRC the issue is undecided. See below.
@Pancakes: I get the analogy, but again, I didn’t take it as 100% certain she was killed. Perhaps in the anime version she did (maybe I missed it – as you see the gore is toned done considerably). Right or wrong, I took the scene as the villagers evacuated and then goblins raided the empty town – destroying what was there. Perhaps reading the LN skewed my perspective. IF that was the case (i.e. the little girl and the other villagers were killed), then my take on the scene is markedly different as the scene makes a lot more sense under such circumstances.
@daikama: You’re correct we do not know if she was killed or not. The anime has not expanded upon this yet, all we know is that they are gone and a destroyed town is all that remains (sounds similar to what you know happened in the LN). I probably have jumped the gun in stating she is in fact dead, but given how the situation has been presented I think it’s a fair call to make.
After all, the newbies were setting out to warn the villagers and defend the town; it could be eluded to that the villagers did not know the goblins were approaching and got taken by surprise, but that cannot be proven as there is no point of view from the villagers here. Does the LN ever explain what happened in the village or no? I think we can avoid spoilers for that question 😛
@Pancakes: Does the LN ever explain what happened in the village or no?
Yes, though perhaps not as directly or as in as great of detail as you might think – i.e. events in Choushi are still described from the adventurer’s perspective.
FWIW, your initial interpretation may very well turn out to be correct. I just think the issue is still uncertain as of this point. Again, perhaps my perspective is unduly influenced.
This is one of those things where I have not read the LNs so I don’t ‘know’ but as far as we’ve been shown in the anime, she’s dead. It’s a pretty standard death scene as people have pointed out.
I guess if she’s not dead in the LNs whatever, but I really hope you’re not basically spoiling the LNs by arguing that we don’t know she’s dead when the scene is about as straight forward of a death scene as we ever get in anime minus seeing the corpse. That was not a ‘mysterious’ scene.
@KaleRylan: That was not a ‘mysterious’ scene.
Interesting because I feel the same way about some of the other scenes in which others found most confusing or lacking in sufficient detail. I just put my opinion forth less bluntly and/or matter of fact. 😀
So… FOR THE THIRD TIME, YES THE GIRL (and the entire village while we’re at it) MIGHT BE DEAD, “fragged”, “one-shotted”, eviscerated, drawn & quartered, and/or chopped into tiny pieces. Got it. Geez, sorry I brought it up. >_>
@daikama:
I apologize if I came on a little strong. I thought you might be spoiling something in the LNs from the way you were saying it. Mostly because the scene is fairly clear. As several people mentioned, it’s a fairly cliche death scene actually (especially the doll). So it just seemed weird to me the way you were questioning it.
If you were just legitimately questioning the scene, then I apologize for any rudeness I may have used. That’s the danger with all the ‘hints’ floating around here, you can never be sure when it’s someone ‘hinting’ or if it’s just an actual question. Sorry again.
What town are you talking about? All I saw in that scene was a single house in the woods that had been pillaged and burned.
Yeeeeah, she’s dead Jim. Or at the very least, that’s what it seemed to Tohya, so it made sense for him to want to honor her by burying the doll. Why should he expect the goblins to have her precious doll and the girl to have gotten away? Possible, but he’ll assume the worst. And he should, because he’s probably right.
Here Krusty shows his maturity, because while the younger and more inexperienced Shiroe became unsure at the thought of people paying a price for his decisions, his decisive decision-making being curtailed in the process, Krusty stood up and proclaimed that they must fight anyway. That’s the maturity of an adult right there.
This scene is amazing because it shows exactly why Krusty is the elect leader of the Round Table Conference, even though he’s not the main character.
LH is doing extremely well in showing that even a MC have weaknesses (e.g. Shiroe insecurity in early episodes and indecisiveness in this episode) and that there’s nothing wrong for a MC to be a follower, instead of a leader.
As I mentioned before, IMO, Krusty is one of the few people who can keep up with Shiroe intellectually/tactically though Shiroe still surpasses him in that regard. However, that wasn’t the sole or even primary reason that I thought Krusty was elected as head of the round table. He is the head of the largest battle guild (over 1000 players IIRC), arguably the most powerful guild period, so it makes sense just from that stand point alone that he heads the round table. That being said, his maturity and intellect certainly don’t hurt.
Shiroe surpasses Krusty in term of intellectual, no doubt about that. But IMO, Krusty has this regal/noble air around him that adds to his charisma and leadership quality. Looking at the setting of the 11 Round Table guilds that we’ve seen, Marie-nee and Shiroe manages their guild in an office-like setting (e.g. they have an office with table, sofa and whatsnot). Krusty on the other hands, has a palace-like setting (e.g. throne-like seat, hall, etc).
So I guess what I want to say is that even if DDD is an elite guild like Black Swords and have only a handful of members, I still see Krusty being elect as the leader of the Round Table.
I’m with aeria. I’m pretty sure Krusty is the leader because he’s the best for the job. Having a big guild may factor, but given the entire purpose of the Round Table is to STOP the big guilds from running the show, I highly doubt that’s a big thing.
Isaac, Souijirou, and Marie are fairly dumb, so not likely to be put in charge. The two other small guild leaders don’t seem to be particularly well known or famous or unusually talented, so they don’t work. The crafting leaders don’t seem like they would want the job, as it was shown earlier that they didn’t even want to leave their work to go to the conference.
That leaves basically Shiroe, Krusty, and the Harmony guy I believe. In the end, I think they picked Krusty because he’s a legitimately good leader, as aeria mentioned.
Krusty is perhaps the best Person, because his Guild is a Raid Guild. There are many Peoples with different Minds, and other oppressing points. But in the End, all of them want one or two things. Loot or Fun.
And Krusty keep the Guild under Control…
Well.. Some sort of President in RL, with the Different Factions inside a Country…
Perhaps with his Skill, he could be a CEO of some Bank or Company
I think Krusty has higher Charisma while Shiroe higher Intelligence, so to speak. This makes Krusty better at direct leadership roles, as evident by him easily running the largest guild around. I seriously suspect he might be a politician in our world…
Careful when you say that Shiroe is more intelligent than Krusty. Yes Shiroe is more analytical, and he’s extremely tactically adept, but Krusty keeps up with him on all of those things and has other areas he’s much more formidable than Shiroe. Things like emotional intelligence aren’t intelligence in how most people think of it, but they count.
Plus his charisma score is definitely way higher. That of the player who became Krusty, that is.
@Stilts: Careful when you say that Shiroe is more intelligent than Krusty. Yes Shiroe is more analytical, and he’s extremely tactically adept, but Krusty keeps up with him on all of those things and has other areas he’s much more formidable than Shiroe.
Disagree with the sentiment except for the last part. Clearly there are areas which Krusty (and many others) are “more formidable” than Shiroe. In some situations (e.g. social/parties), Marie-nee’s more formidable than Shiroe. However, I would caution against going the other way – i.e. making Krusty out to be superior to everyone else. Without question he’s a premier player who has a lot of other fine qualities, but he’s not Shiro’s equal when it comes to “tactics” or “analytical ability” (which pretty much comes down to intelligence). “Tactically adapt”, I agree Krusty is that. “Extremely” so… quite arguable. Experienced is a good word IMO. The LN and anime, albeit perhaps to a lesser extent, clearly show that when it comes to “tactics” – game/raid or otherwise, Shiro is at the head of the pack.
Krusty (nor anyone else) did not anticipate Shiro purchasing the guild building. Krusty (nor anyone else) did not realize the need for some governing body in Akiba (i.e. the round table). Shiroe, not Krusty (nor almost anyone else) understood the need to consider PotL as “humans” rather than static “game NPCs”. In fact, I don’t recall Krusty (or hardly anyone else) being particularity outraged at Hamelin’s exploitation of low level adventurers, or Brigandia’s treatment of PotL. I’ll put it this way, but not for Shiroe, what evidence is there to suggest that there would be ANY change in Akiba or the relationship between adventurers and PotL from what we saw initially (say LN vol 01 – 1/2 volume 02 or the first few EPs of anime)? None as far as I can tell.
Shiro still directs the vast majority of round table tactics/planning. “Keeping up” after the fact is one thing, anticipating / being “one step ahead” is entirely another. It’s the difference between understanding/discovering something on your own and understanding once it is explained to you. They are not the same. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that Krusty is stupid by any means. However, on an intellectual basis, I can not consider him Shiroe’s equal. I posted he’s close, but that’s it, and everything I’ve watched/read supports that conclusion.
Frankly, I consider Henrietta just as intelligent as Krusty. She’s kept up with Shiroe’s ideas just as well as Krusty has. Even in terms of game tactics, Krusty is not portrayed as 2nd only to Shiroe. Isaac’s Black Sword Knight Guild is mentioned as an equal rival to Krusty’s significantly larger DDD guild. Soujirou’s much, much smaller West Wind Brigade Guild is almost on par (in terms of raids) with both of those. Michitaka leads the largest guild – considerably larger than even DDD which requires talent as well.
In terms of charisma, Krusty is unquestionably one of the most charismatic players though he pales (like every other guy) in comparison to Soujirou when it comes to women. No question, Krusty makes a great “face man” which certainly was a factor in him heading he round table. Shiroe is clearly introverted and not suited for that role, so yes, in that particularly instance as noted above, Krusty is more “formidable” than Shiroe. However, even though Krusty is a well rounded, premier player, IMO it is wrong to put him as above or superior to all the others, including Shiroe.
tl:dr: Clearly there are some situations (particularly social) in which Krusty is more capable than Shiroe, but if you had two equal parties (i.e. all level 90 players of roughly equal experience and items) with one led by Krusty and one led by Shiroe, I have no doubt Shiroe’s party would win. Krusty is competent, very competent (as are some other players), but Shiroe is a game breaker, and it is his intelligence that makes him so.
Return of Goblin King? where is Spiderman when you need him
Do you guys think that girl with the doll is dead? What do you guys think?
Show Spoiler ▼
FYI – regarding your spoiler, SOLELY in terms of the statement “there’s implied XYZ in the LN”, I don’t know why/how anyone would/could make that inference from what I’ve read. I can only think that such a rumor is a troll. :<
Supporting statements from LN for the above comment in the spoiler below IF necessary. NOTE: It IS a LN spoiler so ONLY read if you don't mind being spoiled on this particular matter!
LN Choshi Spoiler
Show Spoiler ▼
As for the girl’s status in the anime, no comment apart from what I’ve already posted earlier.
Show Spoiler ▼
D***IT!!! My apologies. I misread your statement (IDK why, but I combined the spoiler inference w/the situation contained in your question). Had I read it correctly, I would not have replied. :<
PLEASE DISREGARD MY ABOVE POST, AND IF POSSIBLE, ADMIN PLEASE DELETE IT.
Thank you.
SPOILER WARNING: FOR LN READER EYES ONLY. If you open this and read it and got spoiled it’s your own damn fault. I took trouble putting spoiler tags on this.
Show Spoiler ▼
@TheMoondoggie
Firstly, I’ll say that Demikas is as bad as you imagine him to be. The rumours you have heard about him are believable. He’s proven to be not very smart, but is known to be very cruel and have no compunction about doing whatever horrors you imagine him doing. At any rate, why is this particular detail so important to you? Even if this was not mentioned in the novel (I can confirmed that it is mentioned :p), it has been established that they are not in a “game”. It is a real world, where any action that is normally possible in reality has been proven to be possible. Given what Demikas and some of these characters are like, without anyone stepping up to stop them, why do you think they would abstain from doing whatever they feel like doing?
@TheMoondoggie:
Umm… Like I said above (largely in caps so it would not be missed >_>..):
(1) I MISREAD your initial statement. It was late. I was tired. I made a mistake. It happens. As soon as I realized my error, I posted a correction post including apology; and
2) THEREFORE, DISREGARD, DO NOT READ, SKIP, etc. my first/initial/directly underneath your post reply. AGAIN, I would NOT have posted ANY response to your comment had I read it correctly.
Had I the power to edit my posts (seriously RC – I’d pay for that at this point), I would have DELETED it (along with the requesting post). Since I can not edit or delete my posts, I asked admin TO DELETE IT.
I don’t know how I can possibly make this any clearer.
——————————————–
@STILTS – Seriously, PLEASE delete all three replies I have made to TheMoondoggie’s above post (including this one), or at the very least the first, erroneous one. It can’t take more than 30 seconds and will prevent additional wasted time/confusion.
@x:
“At any rate, why is this particular detail so important to you?”
I think it’s an important detail when comparing it with this show. Anime scrub darker, edgier series too clean these days, I fear it will become something like Sponge-bob in the near future. I always feel that a show that does that fails to some degree. Japanese anime has become too child friendly.
Which is why, seeing there’s implied death in the show(and I mean a violent perma-death) even in this show makes me happy: there is darkness after all. It shows that living in the database isn’t all fun and games when people starts dying and the dangers the adventurers and the landers face are real to them. I think that the show should be clear on that. It would mean that this show is staying true to the original feel of the source material.
That’s not necessarily an all-anime problem here, it’s more a matter of this being broadcasted on the Japanese equivalent of BBC 2. When you broadcast something on a government-sponsored channel, it of course is going to have to tune down a few things.
I honestly am getting sick of the focus on the newbies. I kind of feel like they were used to break up the discussions the people of the land had with the Round table so that there could be a little action to spice things up for viewers getting tired of constant talk and no action. But i’ve seen this whole overcoming childish naivety and weakness thing way to many times for me to care anymore. The only character in their group that has even slightly interested me is Rudy and that’s only because i’m interested in what his origins are.
Minori’s plan was rather obvious to me so that last scene didn’t really click.
Idk i think the kids could have been used much better but I’ll hold on hope that they will be significant to the overall story.
While I don’t disagree with you completely, this show has made very clear as it’s gone on that it’s a ‘loads and loads of characters’ kind of show. Even Log Horizon isn’t truly the full-on main characters if you go by screen time. When was the last time Naotsugu had a major role in an episode?
And I felt the newbies were handled pretty well here. That said, I really do want more Shiroe, Akatsuki, and Nao again. The original trio are still my favorite characters and I’d like to see them be epic again at least a little while.
I do agree with you that the newbies are getting too much of the spotlight. It would do the series much good if it focused more on the conference for the impending danger.
Also, I also agree that the newbies are full of naivete. Putting aside the obvious consequence of trying to defend a town with 5 people against thousands of mobs, Minori’s proposal to attack the army itself is worse than irrational. This is a raid by the goblins. Considering the number of adventurers in her team – 5, it defies common sense to attack the goblins before they disperse to begin their raid. Even if the other veteran players are taken into account, it is surely not possible to completely annihilate the army before they disperse.
Considering that the goblins’ goal is to raid for supplies, it is wiser to employ a scorched earth strategy and evacuate the villagers. If evacuation is not possible, the least they could do is to blockade the bride shown at the end of the episode to deter the goblins’ advance.
Likewise, it is beyond me as to why Tohya attacked the goblins out of rage. It is perhaps rational to eliminate the goblins if their whereabouts are discovered, but otherwise, it only draws the goblins’ attention.
On a side note, does anyone notice that all the newbies are children. Isuzu expressly mentioned ‘adults’ in the episode. Does this imply that the game has an inherent mechanism that as the character levels up, he/she grows older? I can’t believe that there are no adults (let’s say, people above 18) playing the game but who are lower than level 40.
you can’t really claim Minori’s plan is even more irrational without knowing the full details of her plan. also remember it’s a smaller subgroup of the goblins coming and not the whole army. as for the other strategies, do remember there are other strong beasts on the troll’s side as well as the Sahaugin? in the rear. the goblins can easily win the siege by pure numbers (I doubt that bridge is the only way in)
Elder Tales is based off of older style games thus leveling is much harder (along with the fact that Level cap was much lower at release). any high lvl players are implied to have played for a long time and just older by the time they got high lvled. also thinking about it another way, why would an adult actually start playing a game if they haven’t been from their younger years (Elder Tales is 20 years old)? only children would fall into that group.
Sure I do concede that rejecting her plan before knowing the full details may be hasty, but if you think about it, that would be the only way to ‘protect’ the villages before the goblins attack it. As she said that they will ‘attack’ the goblins, it can only be an attack on the goblin army before they commence their raid. They would fail to protect the villages if they attack after the raid begins.
Perhaps leveling in older RPG games is more difficult, but it does not preclude the fact that there may be older players who are beginners. E.g. A 25 year old might want to give the game a try.
We already know that the group of goblins that are heading for the village is not the full army, but is a smaller raiding force. Watch from about 13:00 in the episode and they tell us that outright. They are already a smaller force, and thus an attack on them is more feasible than charging the entire army.
well we can assume they’re not attacking while the goblins are raiding but while the goblins are still far from the village (or else that’s the same thing as defending it). things will clear up next episode since I don’t want to mention too many details though you might be able to figure it out anyways.
I guess my point only reduced the possibility. to close up loose ends, any adults that are around likely joined the production guilds (which I don’t believe was included in the anime).
Wait for it, and you will see the brilliance in Minori’s plan. It all boil down to simple game mechanics, but I don’t want to spoil it.
I thought about the bridge as well. Assuming a lack of air power or artillery, a bridge is a GREAT choke-point to fortify if you don’t have walls. It would unfortunately mean sacrificing the town, but I can’t tell why it wasn’t suggested.
However, ignoring the bridge for a second, her plan isn’t crazy. If you can’t defend and escape is not an option for moral reason (or no time) then attack IS a good choice. A half-assed defense is pointless. If you can’t build an effective defense, then seize the momentum and attack.
On the all-the-newbies-as-younger-players point:
That has always irked me to some degree. I can accept that this particular batch of newbies are all young, and they’ve been grouped together for that reason, but there would certainly be more teenage no-lifers among the high levels if nothing else (and the overall age of players should probably be lower). Thinking of it, Shouryuu is really the only young Lv 90 player I can think of. Maybe there are a few more, but the demographics of Elder Tales seems to have skewed old. Though since it’s an old game, that does make some sense.
Plus, no experienced player was logged onto their alt when the Apocalypse happened? Hax!
Newbies getting spotlight means that it could be of significance later… so just patiently wait for it… 🙂
The whole thing was moving well until nearing the ending where I feel the flow was a bit off.
Does anyone else think this show is progressing rather slowly? I really like this show, but 16 episodes in already. Maybe it’s building up to some huge epic battle (the Goblin King?). I wish they’d focus more on Log Horizon as a group.
At one episode per chapter and some skipped content, the pacing isn’t that bad, it simply builds up properly and likely will include volumes 1 to 5, since I can’t imagine them taking twice as long for the remaining volume 4 chapters. In my opinion, the epilogue of volume 5 would be an even better current end for the anime than merely ending it at the end of volume 4. And given how only 7 volumes are out so far, they can’t do another anime for a while.
Aww, I want a second (and third) season…
You might see those one day, the intent is for this story to take ~15 volumes total, so eventually there will be enough material for another 50 episodes, or two more seasons like this one.
What I don’t get is why all of the lower level adventurers have child avatars. Do your characters grow up as you continue to play and gain levels? or is it just coincidence that all of the lower level adventurers have child avatars?
I explained it in an earlier response but let’s expand on it a bit.
first, most if not all the newbies are not adults. some of them are high school sure, but they’re all young. the anime might’ve exaggerated in the crab scene where the super newbies are elementary school height but w/e.
adults would not have a good reason to suddenly start playing a time consuming game when they’re adults because that’s just a lot of time (since Elder Tales is based off of older games where lvling is hard). thus, any adults we see have been playing the game for a long time and thus should be at a high level.
last point, while some people may choice an avatar that is quite different from their own features (Akatsuki and Shiroe are two examples and only two that I recall), I think many people would choose something similar to their own.
ohhh… you would be surprised, how many “Female” Avatars are in RL Boys or Men 🙂
Good to know, that here the Voice are the real one. So that is the only Point to guess, if the Avatar is the real one
yea, I know, I know x_x
just saying some people would. especially those that don’t play games at all would likely keep their own features I would think.
This was a keyboard and mouse game anyway, not a VR, so it’s not like “keeping their features” was really an option. Maybe people who don’t play games would go for an avatar that matches themselves, but plenty of gamers play with cross-gender avatars. From the male perspective, if I’m going to be looking at this character on the screen for 600 hours anyway, I’d like it to at least be an attractive character.
This is mentioned in the LNs when Shiroe first meets Nyanta. Their features HAVE been altered to fit their real bodies, allowing for the hard-coded things like race and height. So Shiroe and Nao REALLY do look like that in real life (except Shiroe’s shorter), even Nyanta looks similar in real life, minus not being a cat. So most of the newbies look like kids because they are kids. Doesn’t explain why they’re all short though. I guess they just all randomly wanted to play short characters?
Frankly, I wish they would mention the height thing more often. After the single mention of it with Shiroe in episode 1, it’s just ignored from there on. That page that lists the races someone put on here a while back mentioned things like the fact that dwarf players actually have a really hard time because they’re so short in their new bodies compared to what their brains expect. I would have liked to see that.
Character look might be based on race picked real life features and game age based on time played that would explain why the newbies are all young. A new dwarf player would be tiny.
ok, spoilers and Wild Mass Guessing ahead…
Show Spoiler ▼
misinformation in #2 and #3. it was never implied for everyone nor shown. Naotsugu and Nyanta simply forgot to. it’s a smaller subgroup coming to Choshi, remember that
I’m waiting for Lenessia to don that Valkyrie Profile armor from the OP and become a badass.
Lenessia badass? Err… nevermind :p.
This show is the reason why i play final fantasy 14 a realm reborn
Fabulous old-school MMO, but I got 56 on my Warrior and just decided that the endgame grind was insane. You need to average like 3 hours a day for 3 weeks straight to get some of the basic-ish endgame gear.
I just don’t have the time to devote to that sort of thing anymore. I loved the leveling up experience.
Log Horizon makes me REALLY want to play FFXIV: A Realm Reborn.
Something I think the light novel made a bit more clearer about why the more experienced players were, as a whole, more reluctant to help was because they have a more ingrained attitude that the Landers are just NPCs, and not actually people in their own right. In contrast to that, the newbies don’t have that preconception, and so were more quick to accept/believe that they are in another world, and not just some more detailed version of a game.
Would have been nice to see that a bit, it makes sense, even for the ‘nicer’ high level characters like Nao and Marie.
They ‘know’ this world, so they run everything through their preconceptions, where to the kids its all knew so they just take it as it comes. It makes sense.
They kind of pointed that out. The problem? They used Isaac to do that. He’s been given sort of an “anti-Lander” image in the anime, so it became a “Isaac being Isaac” moment instead… It would have worked better with almost any other named character.
Also, this sort of thing might have been hard to animate so that the message is made clear. If the anime had Marie/Nao/Nyanta say/think “well, they are NPC, aren’t they?” it would be easy to accuse of them going out of character, and any subtler hints might be hard to do, at least when considering the time restraints…
That makes sense, but like Anonymosity, it would also be hard to properly convey without the emotional complexity and depth of either the written word, a really good live action actor, or animation with more budget than Log Horizon has.
Once again, the childish impulse of wishing that the real life was like the games is creeping on the back of my mind
“That’s escapism! Can’t you see? It’s unhealthy!” -Marche 😛
finally caught up and i am really enjoying this show! i can understand why some people can be critical of a few key elements this episode has used here such as the newbie’s-rise-to-the-occasion and such, but it’s still annoying to read them. even if i’ve seen this all before in multiple occasions, i still get very excited seeing it being pulled off well. the setting and the world dynamics are very interesting, and the characters are very likable. despite having similarities that doesn’t mean there isn’t originality to be found. like stilts wrote, the fact the adventurers completely forgot about the existence of the goblin king event was totally believable. amidst the chaos, who really has anything to do besides trying to find suitable living conditions for yourself? fighting is 10x hard too so many players aren’t even fighting their level mobs, and even if they are, it’s usually just to make a quick buck to get by and *live*, not for any achievement they can get by *playing*.
i’m not exactly sure how minori’s plan is going to work to be honest. it seems like they’re going to intercept them but it seems like a suicide mission. they are adventurers so it’s totally plausible that this is her proposition since they don’t know the truth, but if you can’t defend a point, how do you really expect to intercept them? i suppose the elaboration will probably entail some sort of hit&run or stalling/taunting tactics but i’m still iffy about that. i am almost definite, however, that this plan is supposed to sound naive without the explanation, so i really don’t understand how some people saw this as an obvious solution.
hoping to see some badass lenessia in action! i love how she and krusty are just lazy good-for-nothings by day, but brave and admirable persons by night. lenessia’s dynamic as an unfulfilled person just meandering through life without much care or concern for anything into someone inspired to take action is very moving for me. her relationship with krusty seems authentic and while i really am jumping the gun here i’m very excited to seeing more of them soon. i really wouldn’t mind if they didn’t get romantically involved either.
Remember that their tactics aren’t restrained to simple tank & spank fighting. I’m sure Minori has something a little more clever up her sleeve.
now that i think about it, they should have the upper hand since they should know the path they’ll take towards the town. an ambush should be effective but i wonder how minori will queue it all up. the size of the army they’re dealing with may be a problem.
One thing that surprised me, and I’m going to check out another subgroup later to confirm, is that they noted the Goblin King is a two-per-year event. It was noted as once per two months in the novel, which translates to once per two years in the game world.
My friend told me to watch the op carefully and look for Rudy. There are massive Rudy spoilers in the op and I never even noticed…