First Impressions / Series Introduction / Snapshots

OP Sequence

OP: 「禁断のレジスタンス」 (Kindan no Resistance) by 水樹 奈々 (Mizuki Nana)

「堕とされた皇女」 (Oto sare ta ōjo)
“The Fallen Princess”

If there ever was a tale of two halves, Cross Ange’s introductory episode would be it.

The first half was your typical introductory affair, giving us a glimpse of a world without “wants or worries,” and showcasing the prevalence of Mana as the great do-all in everyone’s lives. There’s a particular focus on the Empire of Misurugi’s First Princess (Mizuki Nana), and it’s all about the lead up to Angelize’s Baptism Ceremony, held in commemoration of her 16th birthday and official entrance into Empire politics. It’s as structured a build up as any major empire-led pomp and circumstance would receive, and it’s emphasized with a enough reverence and formal manner of speech to make even the most noble man blush.

It goes without saying that there’s always another side to the story however, and the first half does end up bringing this manner up to light in regards to the revelation that exceptions to the rule exist, and there are people unable to utilize Mana. The catch is they’re all subsequently given a designation of Norma and shipped off unceremoniously—yes, that’s a baby being shipped off in a container—and there are definitely hints early on that the peaceful exterior was none other than a facade covering a more nefarious darkness underneath.

The question was how far it stretched, and the second half brings with it revelations that likely exceeded any of the expectations we had. With them came a stark difference in atmosphere to match—one highlighted by a coup, a death, a fall from grace, and perhaps the most blatant expressions of disgust I’ve seen in an anime in a long time. The revelation of the Princess as a Norma (combined with the cover up by her parents) ends up throwing everything for a loop, and it’s one that ends with a controversial development that reminds me of another recent Sunrise work.

I’ll just say that between Valvrave, Cross Ange, and Sword Art Online II, I don’t know what’s up with people and their need to depict rape (or scenes that imply it or something else similar), but not only is it appearing a lot more often these days, it’s also not being given the treatment a topic of such importance should be given when it does. That said, one could argue that Cross Ange does at least have a legitimate reason for including such a scene, as it showcases the treatment Norma receive, as well as the fact that they’re truly in a prison akin to hell (cavity searches inclusive). But having a legitimate reason doesn’t mean it was intended for that purpose, and the inclusion of this inexplicable scene in between it all makes you wonder if it wasn’t just for the purpose of titillation, which would be downright appalling.

Either way, I’m at a loss at how to summarize my impressions regarding Cross Ange. The controversial rape scene aside, I did like how they went all the way in portraying the stigmatic nature of the Norma, the lengths people would go to in order to ensure they’re tossed out of society, and the flat out repulsion they felt for them. Cross Ange presents a lot of themes worth giving additional depth to, and there is a good story to be had when you have people trying to overcome societal labels, social stigmas, and various other meaningful challenges. It only helps that Sunrise is behind the animation, and the OST’s pretty good as well. The problem is, the series itself will first have to overcome hurdles of its own, as this flawed introductory episode doesn’t do it any favors in regards to how they portrayed events and developed the characters.

The first half was better in hindsight after considering how its atmospheric contrast plays into things, but the fact remains that I didn’t feel much while watching the first half at all, and the rehash of elements from prior Sunrise series (Gundam Seed especially) in the OP sequence doesn’t help in the overall scheme of things. When it comes to enjoyment, it’s not hatred, but rather apathy that’s the worst possible impression you can have, and I was definitely apathetic towards what was an underwhelming first half, and that’s despite the mecha vs. dragon fight. The Mana-Lacrosse match felt like it was just there, the reverence for the Princess overdone to the point that it detracted from the thematic focus, and Julio was presented as stereotypical brother with an ulterior motive.

Thankfully, the second half brings things up a notch, but even that ends up overpowered by the inclusion of the aforementioned controversial scene, and there’s a lot of work to be done here with this series if it wants to get anywhere. The beauty of it all however, is that this is only the series’ first episode, and there’s a lot of room (24 more episodes to be precise) for Cross Ange to build from here. This may have turned out to be a negative review overall, but that shouldn’t discourage you from watching this series for a little bit longer regardless. I know I’ll continue to watch this series despite my qualms, and here’s hoping it gets better from here.

Note: As of this moment, Cross Ange is not scheduled to receive weekly coverage.

 

ED Sequence

ED: 「凛麗」 (Rinrei) by 喜多村 英梨 (Kitamura Eri)

Preview

138 Comments

  3. I gotta say this has became one of the most engaging episodes of the new season premiers so far.

    A princess that had everything, then lost everything, and a world with enough depth to make me ask questions.

    Can only Norma’s fight dragons?
    Ange’s path to revenge?
    A struggle for the throne?

    I also really liked the mecha designs. Sunrise never disappoints on mecha.

    flCer
    Reply

    1. I´m not a cynic but the moment Angelisse said that it was a perfect and beautiful world I knew something was up, the world might be beatiful but humans find a way to make society complicated and ugly and as I thought the Norma are the catch in that fairy tail world. The Norma remind me a lot to the Anti-Sorcerers from Break Blade, they are both treated like crap by circunstances beyond their control and hurt nobody but people doesn´t care, they have their magic and anyone different is an abomination, what a sick joke.

      haseo0408
      Reply

      1. Well that sure was something, especially the end.

        I’m sure it’s been noticed, but the premise is a lot like Break Blade’s. However in Break Blade Un-sorcerers aren’t orchestrated to such an extent. There’s bullying and name calling, but no feelings of disgust or OMFG MONSTER in that world. It has a lot to do with the society and the effects. In Break Blade the people without magic just can’t use any of the technology. They’re very inconvenienced, but don’t really pose a threat to anyone and can live a decent life farming in the outskirts. It also helps that the government is very liberal and run by cool people.

        Being a Norma has more to it then just “can’t use magic”. They also destroy magic on contact, which can lead to the mage society feeling threatened. Further more the whole government is structured around discriminating against norma.

        FlameStrike
        Reply

      2. Are you sure about that? Rygart´s father was shunned by every single person he knew because he decided to Raise him and his younger brother, none of his former friends and fellow villagers went to his funeral. Rygart and Regatz were treated like freaks by almost every single human being they knew, Rygart just acts normal because he´s an iron woobie but Rygatz never leaves the farm; it´s a lot worse in this story but belive me, not by much.

        haseo0408
        Reply

      3. The difference could be the break blade has, in my mind, at most a late industrial era while this world(or better say country) is up to par with our best. At least i can’t remember TV, high ways or level of civil culture from break blade.

        Construct
        Reply

    2. Can only Norma fight dragons?
      From what we see, Dragons can produce magic shields and Norma possess the ability to cancel magic.
      My guess is that human magic is unable to break through a dragons shield which means that, yes, only Norma can fight dragons.

      Zannafar
      Reply

    3. I didn’t watch this episode entirely. I skip a lot of content but there are a couple of scenes that just DISTURB me…

      https://randomc.net/image/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo%20-%2001%20-%20Large%2018.jpg

      https://randomc.net/image/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo%20-%2001%20-%20Large%2022.jpg

      WTF? That’s just wrong and I mean that is mess up but they have to take it even further!

      https://randomc.net/image/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo%20-%2001%20-%20Large%2039.jpg

      If someone ask me if this is rape before I watch this I might have hesitate but certainly after watching it I can conclude that this is rape. You don’t need to have a man to violate a woman – it’s enough if you just rob her of her virginity and the ability to give a life. Now that is just cruel…

      KF
      Reply

    2. Huh, never seen Gundam Seed. I was perplexed and asking myself why the hell is there a naked dude I don’t know and the Princess floating around butt naked on my screen?

      Just feels off.

      Rick Anime
      Reply

  5. Sorry for being completely political incorrect;) (hate that):

    “but not only is it appearing a lot more often these days, it’s also not being given the treatment a topic of such importance should be given when it does”

    What is up with this “oooh cant touch this and that subject without being extra extra careful”. You dont have to be. This is not reality and we dont have to go into every detail and be overly political correct. I know that in real life, sexual abuse can only be described as a tragedy – had something like this happen to my friend, BUT, this is fiction, and I would NEVER want to compare a work of fiction in this regard with reality. Or yes, I do want to compare it so that I can say – this and that are completely unrelated matters.
    I still remember reading Ken Follets “The Pillars of the Earth”, and other novels, and even in Game of Thrones, I wonder if not someone actually affected could say that the psychological issues arent given the proper treatment. But as far as I know, Pillars of the Earth is still regarded as pretty decent literature.

    IMO, this is “just” a work of fiction, and one just doesnt have to play the moralist at all times, that is just annoying and more or less on the same level as someone saying “if you play a shooter you’re gonna shoot someone in real life sooner or later”. The main question isnt : “Is this an adequate treatment with respect to our reality?”, its: “does this scene amount to something in the wider context, does it help create an atmosphere?” – questions that lie WITHIN the framework of fiction.

    Im saying that as someone who could very well do without any sexual scene in fiction at all – and who could do even better without political correctness.

    Incipiente
    Reply

    1. After reading it again it sounds too harsh…Its not meant that way, I think Zephyr is one of the best bloggers. Its just a general problem I have with political and literal discourse lately.

      Incipiente
      Reply

    2. I for one agree with you. As long as we are fine with work of fiction depicting every sin and crime imaginable, including human murder (and even video games making us “commit” it ourselves), I don’t see why we have to suddenly avoid touching rape within the context of fiction. As with everything, if it manages to enhance and affect the story in a meaningful way and is not just for the hell of it, then I don’t have a problem. Of course, everyone has his/her own tastes and I can understand if someone cannot stomach a rape scene; that does not automatically make the depiction of such a scene pointless though.

      Tassadar
      Reply

    3. There is a good reason rape is a more touchy subject than killing.

      When it comes to showing acts of murder there are many ways of depicting it. You can actually feel like the killer is morally justified or if their reasons for killing is understandable. Sure, you have those shows that merely only have killing for the sake of killing but most of the time I’d say death is treated properly in any form of fiction that involves death (at least ones that wish to take themselves seriously).

      However when it comes to anime “Rape” is almost ALWAYS depicted in an unsatisfiable manner. Given that it is a serious issue it’s not something people want to see nonetheless treated so immaturely. That’s because no matter what the circumstances rape is a horrible act that is never justified. But it is more often than not used to fuel “rape fantasy” instead of using it as an organic part of the story. Basically there aren’t any ways you can depict rape other than cheaply making the villains more hateable (something that SAO does far to often).

      When the camera is moving around the females body showing every part of her naked defeated self as if that’s the main point of the scene THAT is when it becomes offensive because the staff doesn’t treat the situation as bad but more “dude check out this hot chick getting sexually assaulted!”. Regardless of whether it is fiction or not that doesn’t change the fact rape ISN’T what most people want to see especially if it’s used for titillation which anime tends to do A LOT of.

      leatherhead333
      Reply

      1. Well, I disagree if you can come up with ways to justify murder then it’s not difficult to come up with ways to justify rape.The fact you consider rape to be a horrible act is your own opinion, rape by itself means forced sex I don’t see why some people think it’s a terrible act if anything it’s a trivial act regardless of whether it’s done in reality or fiction.

        I do agree with your point that it’s sometimes used to fuel ‘rape fantasy’ which maybe cheap but not necessarily a bad thing.As for the trying to make villains more hate-able, well, that only applies to guys like you who consider rape to be a horrible act, doesn’t it?For myself I’ve never felt any hatred for villains simply because they raped someone.

        And please stop talking about what ‘most people’ want to see, anime has a very diverse audience and not everyone(or even most people) share your opinion about rape, certainly not me.Incipiente is right when he says these complains come along the same line as “if you play shooter games you’re gonna shoot someone in real-life sooner or later”, I think it would be better if, not just you but everyone who finds rape offensive or controversial, took a minute to think about why they feel that way, because the above given reasons fail to explain it.

        This post may come off as harsh or even offensive but I think it’s necessary to say this since this isn’t the first time I’ve come across a nonsensical moral outrage over rape, followed by a rationalization that makes even less sense.

        anon
        Reply

      2. I’ve said in the past I usually don’t downvote, but this post right here. Wow.

        “a nonsensical moral outrage over rape”
        “not everyone(or even most people) share your opinion about rape”
        “if anything it’s a trivial act”

        I’d like to at least ask why you think the above thoughts. Mainly, how is it trivial, exactly? Most people would share leatherhead333 view on rape in one degree or another, as moral outrage seems to be a fairly sensible reaction to something that’s very destructive.

        Impel Down Hippo
        Reply

      3. @anon

        So let’s imagine that you’re sent to prison. You just want to do your time and get out. Shouldn’t really be a big deal.

        Well, now a big hulking 260 pound NFL linebacker sized dude named Tank sees you and decides you’d make the perfect prison bitch. At the end of it all you feel violated, possibly have a torn rectum and now are scared for your personal well being for the rest of your sentence because a similar thing could happen at any time and not necessarily just by Tank.

        But, I mean, it’s no problem for you because it’s a trivial act, right?

        Absolutely, positively one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen a person say. Rape is trivial. It’s a traumatizing experience that can negatively effect one’s life. It’s not like, “Oh, I just got raped. Whatevs. Now let’s go sue to get some free money.”

        Seriously, go say that to a REAL rape victim and see what happens. Not like, where it’s considered a rape due to a technicality (still a bad thing though) but where the woman is legitimately forced while being fully aware and not being able to do anything about it.

        Kuntzy
        Reply

      4. I’m glad at least a couple of people bothered to reply instead of mindlessly down-voting even if their arguments are basically “Rape is evil prove me wrong”, “More people agree with me than you so it makes sense”, “You wouldn’t say that if it happened to you” and “Tell that to people who experienced it(with an implied threat of violence I imagine?)”.

        @Impel Down Hippo

        Better question would be, how is it not trivial?What makes you think it’s terrible in the first place?Let me ask you, what do you think about about sex?I assume generally you and most other people would consider it an enjoyable activity?Then if someone were to force someone into the same activity, does it magically become a destructive and terrible act?Or if it helps you understand, say you have a favorite food you enjoy eating and someone force-feeds you the same food, would it suddenly become a terrible and destructive thing?That makes zero sense, sure I agree rape is wrong in the same way force-feeding someone his favorite food is wrong, but both of those acts are also trivial.

        @Kuntzy

        Well, yes, actually it wouldn’t be a problem since it’s trivial, I imagine a torn rectum would be somewhat painful, but I doubt I’d feel violated or scared, like I posted above those things are only true for people who make a big deal of these kinds of acts, I don’t, so there’s no reason for me to feel that way.Then again it’s not like I’ve ever been in such a situation so I can’t say for certain.

        And what makes you think it’s a traumatizing experience?I’ve heard of number of incidents where people who experienced such incidents simply shrugged it off and I even know one personally who while wasn’t raped, was definitely a victim of sexual assault, he only mentioned the incident in passing and wasn’t even bothered by it much less traumatized.On the other hand there maybe people who are traumatized by it, not because rape by itself is traumatizing but rather because they, like you, make a big deal out of it and are taught it’s a horrible act, which in turn probably leads them to be traumatized when faced with such an incident.And yes I would tell a rape victim as much if I found one clinging to a sense of victim-hood or self-pity over something so trivial.

        anon
        Reply

      6. I don’t think I can explain it any more clearly than what I wrote above.I’m not trivializing rape, it’s trivial by itself there’s no need to trivialize it, I’m simply pointing out the stupidity of making a big deal out of it.Doesn’t anyone who get on the rape hysteria train bother to ask themselves what exactly makes rape such terrible,horrible,(add whatever other adjective you want) act?

        anon
        Reply

      7. “That makes zero sense, sure I agree rape is wrong in the same way force-feeding someone his favorite food is wrong, but both of those acts are also trivial.”

        “Well, yes, actually it wouldn’t be a problem since it’s trivial, I imagine a torn rectum would be somewhat painful, but I doubt I’d feel violated or scared”

        “And what makes you think it’s a traumatizing experience?I’ve heard of number of incidents where people who experienced such incidents simply shrugged it off and I even know one personally who while wasn’t raped, was definitely a victim of sexual assault, he only mentioned the incident in passing and wasn’t even bothered by it much less traumatized.”

        “On the other hand there maybe people who are traumatized by it, not because rape by itself is traumatizing but rather because they, like you, make a big deal out of it and are taught it’s a horrible act, which in turn probably leads them to be traumatized when faced with such an incident.And yes I would tell a rape victim as much if I found one clinging to a sense of victim-hood or self-pity over something so trivial.”

        It’s clear your understanding of this is completely ignorant if you’re comparing it to being force fed. In both cases they’re seen as a violation, yes, but those aren’t remotely the same types of violations because of the sexual implications involved.

        You think it’s just a physical violation that can be shrugged off, but there’s a huge emotional and psychological affect it has on its victims because of the type of violent act it is that can influence the rest of their lives and relationships. You say you’d shrug it off, but imagine if you were violently beaten, forced to the ground, and sexually violated by a larger individual. Or imagine this individual had been stalking you for some time, making you fearful and terrified during that time before the actual rape. Imagine this was your father who did this to you, or maybe your roommate or best friend. There’s such a huge psychological impact that saying it’s just because you’ve been conditioned by society to react this way if completely off base. It’s because a lot of rapes are committed by people you know is exactly why it’s such an emotionally fucked up thing.

        It sounds like you know mainly guys who were sexually assaulted or raped. I also am pretty sure you’re a guy as well, as only a guy would have the arrogance to make comments like these. They have more of a capacity to shake it off as compared to women, as it’s just so different situationally. Not saying all the time, but a lot of the time. They may be taken advantage of, but they’re usually not violently forced to have sex like women are, nor are overpowered regularly, nor are treated like possessions. Maybe in jail when it’s a larger man forcing them. And I’m strictly talking about grown men, and not kids who are abused because that’s completely different. Also much more damaging. But then again, maybe you expect a kid to shrug it off as well. I’m being serious since you show a true lack of empathy,

        also love how I got 2 downvotes for my comment. who the hell disgareed with it besides anon? that’s your right, but holy fucking hell.

        a box like hippo
        Reply

      8. @Anon, I have to wonder if you are a psycopath unable to have empathy or if your daily life involve losing your leg by torture and thus rape seems trivial to you? The analog of eating your favorit food is rather off as well, more like being forced to eat shit while getting beat up. You would be pefectly fine with someone using you as a toilet and kicking you around as long as they don’t actually kill you? Well, at least you got an easy career choise ahead of you.

        Znail
        Reply

      10. @Znail, @Solace

        I was just thinking the same thing, that anon is possibly a psychopath incapable of empathy (or he’s a magnificent troll – or he’s a truly ignorant fool). And I too would say that he should seek professional help if it’s the former.

        a box like hippo
        Reply

      11. Now, Anon doesn’t deserve all the hate he’s getting. At least to me, it seems like he doesn’t particularly care of rape happened or not. In a way… that might be a better reaction than you think.
        Face it. People love rape. Now, not love to physically rape others or be raped, but rather they love to be outraged by it. People love to hate rapists and the moral superiority that instills within them. Rape can be a very easy way of making the bad guy worse or to just create an empathy within the audience for a character they might not like very much. Or it can be a very effective part of the narrative. Then watching the victim overcome and endure makes for easy captivation.
        Yes, rape can be trivial. Because human beings have an amazing ability to cope with adversity. It depends on the individual and even the situation. That isn’t even considered how much folks keep trying to expand the definition of rape to mean anything.

        GuardMonkey10
        Reply

      12. @GuardMonkey10

        “People love to hate rapists and the moral superiority that instills within them. ”

        ah, I think people hate rapists because of the vile acts they perpetrate. It’s a cowardly crime of power. They attack weaker smaller people to violate them so they can feel powerful or do something destructive to them so they feel in control. I understand the point you’re making, but it just doesn’t fit in this context.

        “Yes, rape can be trivial. Because human beings have an amazing ability to cope with adversity. ”

        I’m still not sure why anyone could ever make a comment like that. This has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever read. Even the guys who make rape jokes wouldn’t touch this with a ten foot pole. Or you’re also someone devoid of empathy to say it “can be trivial”. Because human beings have an amazing ability to cope with adversity, does not make rape trivial, it shows the strength and resolve of the human spirit as it endures even the most destructive of violations. And that’s why some consider rape worse than death, you’re still alive and have to live with it.

        a box like hippo
        Reply

      13. Most of these replies seem to be personal attacks than disagreements with what I said.To avoid any confusion and to keep it short I’m replying in order from top and by paragraph by paragraph as in, below your name my first paragraph is in reply to your first paragraph and so on.

        @a box like hippo

        Has it occurred to you, maybe you’re the ignorant one here?You wrote they aren’t remotely the same type because of the ‘sexual implications’ involved, is that supposed to mean something?To put in another way I could say force-feeding is terrible because of the ‘oral implications’ involved, would that mean something to you?Because it doesn’t to me.

        First of all it’s not what I think, I wrote that I know of such cases.You’re basically trying to brush off the fact there are people who shrugged off such incidents since in your narrow view of rape things like that can’t exist, so I’ll reiterate, what I wrote above is a fact not an opinion, there are people who didn’t suffer the slightest emotional or psychological affect from being raped(or other forms of sexual abuse), one such individual being a personal acquaintance of mine, your ‘beliefs’ about rape does not change that reality in the slightest.The rest of that paragraph is devoted your bias about rape than rape itself, I’m not sure if you understand but I’m talking about the act of rape, all of that about beating,forcing to the ground,stalking and being scared,terrified,etc. because of it are things separate from rape itself, regardless of whether those things are terrifying or not, it’s stupid to try to use those things to make rape sound like a terrible act.If that was too confusing, take for instance you wrote ‘Imagine this was your father who did this to you, or maybe your roommate or best friend’, well, in that case imagine one of your parents or roommate or best friend stole something from you or lied and betrayed you, it’s possible either of those things could cause an huge emotional and psychological impact on you, would that make theft a terrible,unforgivable act?Or lying for that matter, at least theft is illegal maybe lying should be too, you know since it can cause serious emotional and psychological damage which according to you makes an act a terrible one.See how pointless it is to use such things to frame something as an terrible or serious issue?And it’s just not victims of rape, I think even people like you are conditioned in a similar manner, I mean, going by your posts you obviously haven’t experienced these things yourself nor do you seem to know anyone who has personally, yet you have all these ideas about rape, who taught you these things?

        Well, in that case you heard wrong, most of the incidents I know of were women not guys, except for the one I know personally, but yes I’m a guy even if I don’t agree with your prejudiced about guys.Although it’s amusing that you’d be so arrogant as to think a comment with an opinion disagreeing with yours which is not even directed at you is an act of arrogance, do you by chance travel in small and very insulated social circles in which everyone agrees with your opinions?And then you also seem to have a lot of bias on your part about women or how they’re treated, I’ll just point you to the what I just wrote above about bias and how I’m not talking about any surrounding circumstances that may exist in reality or more likely in your head but rather how the act of rape by itself is trivial.Also differences between how it affects men and women probably stem(but not exclusively) from the fact girls are basically force-fed how things like rape are terrible from a young age unlike boys which in turn leads to females being more psychologically damaged by rape than males.And it doesn’t matter what I expect, kids do shrug it off, in fact I read about such an incident just last week, a sexual abuse incident against a child, guess what?The kid didn’t suffer from any emotional or psychological affects, which doesn’t surprise me, it depends on the individual and the age too, but for the most part kids unlike adults aren’t taught things like rape,abuse,etc so they wouldn’t even know what’s going on much less whether it’s right or wrong,terrible or trivial,etc. at best they’d probably feel uncomfortable if at all.It seems couple of other posters below have also brought up my supposed lack of empathy so I’ll write more below, but you do realize I can just as easily claim you have a true lack of empathy?You know since I know I have feelings and am capable of empathy but you think I lack empathy, which to me it would seem that you’re incapable of empathy.

        Do you really travel in a very limited social circle?Is it that surprising there are people who disagree with your view on rape?I know a number of people both online and in real-life who share similar views to mine on the matter.

        @Znail

        Yeah, I don’t think I wrote anywhere I would be fine with those things as long as it doesn’t kill me, what I wrote was that the scenario Kuntzy described wouldn’t be a problem, but maybe I exaggerated a little it would be a problem but a small problem and no, my daily life doesn’t involve things like that, I actually have a pretty comfortable life.As for your concerns about my mental health and empathy, I wrote about that in my reply to Solace.

        @Solace

        Seen these kinds of accusations before it always seemed to me like a politically correct way of name-calling you know instead calling each other things like idiot,moron and animal names,etc like kids, online, people seem to call each other psychopath,sociopath,some personality disorder,etc.But I’ll reply anyway, personally I take anything that comes from the field of psychology very lightly if at all since the field deals with mental issues any diagnosis psychologists come up with are entirely speculation meaning it’s possible conditions like psychopathy may not even exist, but if it makes you guys feel any better I’ve seen a shrink once in the past who told me I was perfectly healthy, psychologically at least, maybe you guys are the ones who have mental health issues since you think perfectly sane people are psychopaths?On a side note, since you guys are apparently knowledgeable enough to make a diagnosis and concerned about my health, do you by chance know whether it’s contagious?You never know maybe I caught psychopathy later on.

        That last bit was sarcasm btw.And about empathy, who exactly do you want me to empathize with?Perpetrators of rape,victims of rape?Do you have a specific perpetrator/victim in mind?I’m guessing you most likely want me to empathize with the poor,emotionally and psychologically damaged rape victim that exists in your heads more than anywhere else.Or maybe you wanted me to empathize with yourselves, well, obviously I don’t share your feelings as far rape goes, isn’t that why we’re arguing in the first place?Or if you meant empathy in general, do I even need to point out the fact I came to the conclusion that rape is trivial thing by empathizing with people at some level?And I can understand the feelings of both the personal acquaintance I mentioned and the kid I read about, something which, if I go by what you wrote, you are not capable of, if anything you guys are the ones showing a lack of empathy here.

        Oh, and about Poe’s Law if you’re confused, no, this isn’t a parody I’m being serious.Also I’m not trolling, but if the things I write upset you I don’t think there’s much I can do about it, unless you guys expect me not express my opinion just so you won’t get offended.

        anon
        Reply

      14. Sorry to keep switching usernames, my cookies got all screwed up.

        @Anon

        I think it’s clear you’re unable to comprehend the difference between sexual violence and forced oral consumption. I know it sounds like I’m brushing aside your opinions and comments, but I think a majority of the people here understand there is no comparing the two. You may feel otherwise, and you’re entitled to do so.

        And maybe that’s because you have a different moral compass than the rest of us. It just feels like most people live their lives trying not to hurt people, so the idea that rape could be trivial sounds ignorant, since it’s a harmful horrific act for most people. It damages people. It breaks them. I’d have to say all the women in my life have had to deal with sexual assault and discrimination their whole lives, and their reactions to things I think would be innocuous key me into their experiences. Like not trusting to spend the night with a male friend, or stories about people exposing themselves to them, or the details they don’t fill in about those experiences. Or being thanked by a friend for not taking advantage of them for letting them spend the night. Or an ex-girlfriend talking about working experiences where their boss tried to force themselves on them.

        I’ve even had plenty of men try to pick me up or hit on me insistently in ways that tell me, if this is what women have to worry about all the time and much worse, then goddamn. If that makes me biased, or brainwashed, so be it.

        I said that I’m guessing you were referencing mainly men since you mentioned a “he”. And to claim, since we are on the internet, that you know women as well who have brushed off rape sounds suspect. We don’t truly know what they feel. I’m sure there are those who can brush it off, but that is certainly not the majority of the way people respond to it. Call it conditioning, call it whatever you want, it’s normal to be angry and hurt and ashamed. Those people you know are outliers or they’re lying to you. You can say I’m discriminating between the sexes, but that’s just reality. Women have it worse. Just look at the news all over the world. From India to high schools and colleges in the US, to Japan, to the middle east et al. To women who travel by themselves and to women who are raped by their friends. Sure there are men that are raped and taken advantage of, but the ratio to women make it fairly one sided.

        If men are taken advantage by women, it’s not usually by force (I’m sure there are instances, but not as common), nor are they having something penetrated into them (obviously jail would be the exception or gay rape – of course exceptions other exist). And that poses so much of a psychological difference. I don’t think that can be brushed aside as a social condition or under estimated as to its impact. It’s violent.

        And that’s why maybe some men can “shrug it off”. There are plenty of cases coming out where men say they have not shrugged it off, but you can just look up those statistics on your own. Men would certainly be more willing to lie about how they feel about this since they’ve got their manhood at stake, so saying it didn’t “phase them” would be a good cover otherwise you’ll be perceived as weak. You might think your friends would never lie to you about it, but that’s just how people are instinctually.

        And the article you read about that child shrugging it off, you said it yourself, since children don’t understand what happened it’s hard for them to grasp the impact. They know something did, but they’re too young to comprehend it, since their brains aren’t fully developed. And if we don’t teach them it’s wrong and harmful, they’ll continue to let it happen again without knowing it’s bad. And there’s no debate whether that’s bad or not in modern society. You can feel free to think otherwise, but that’s really something only child molesters would think is ok (though many of them do know it’s wrong).

        And yes, girls are taught from a young age to fear rape because it’s something that happens to them frequently. Boys don’t have to worry about this usually because we leave in a patriarchal society. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen, but that means girls and women are more likely the targets. On an even baser level, it’s about the strong imposing their will on the weak. And of course, that’s influenced the way out society has developed. There’s a reason why 1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, or why there’s a study that Asian men have admitted to forced sexual relations based on wifely duty or expectations.

        And to remove the environment that rape exists in is a pointless exercise. It’s akin to saying to remove all the factors in a murder case so we can just focus on the murder itself. No, those factors are absolutely relevant. There is not going to be a situation where there are no relevant factors that would allow the incident to have to stand on its own. And to relate it to a family member stealing or lying to you, while certainly brings up the issue of betrayal, it’s not anywhere near the emotional damage of rape for most people. If you’re grading these on the same value scale, then your value scale is out of whack. Theft and lying will never be the same as rape. You can claim all you want you don’t think so, but that should clue you in that your values are out of line with conventional society.

        And to be honest at this point, I don’t care anymore about your viewpoints since they seem to me, and to most, to be pretty vile sounding. I don’t care if that makes me sound arrogant or morally superior. I don’t care whether it’s moral or not that I feel this way or that that means I don’t have empathy, because you’re right in a way, I don’t have empathy for your views (and the people you know who share them) because they are sickening to most of the people here. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact. if that’s being biased or conditioned or intolerant or “normal” then so be it.

        Impel Down Hippo
        Reply

      15. I can’t believe it took me this long to realize it, but it finally dawned on me, Anon isn’t a psychopath, he’s much worse: he a bloody MRA (maybe even an anti-pua?). Calling rape trivial and comparing it to theft should’ve clued me in (and the fact he has a circle of acquaintances who share his views online and in real life), and an internet search confirmed it. Ugh, I can’t believe I wasted my time thinking he was a human being with an actual mental issue – he’s just a garden variety misogynist – generalizing I know, he could be much worse.

        Everyone can go about their business.

        Impel Down Hippo
        Reply

      16. It seems you have a lot of personal issues to sort out rather than argue with me, now I seriously think you should consider getting psychiatric help, I don’t mean it as an insult or in a demeaning manner, but seeing your latest replies and going on and on about things that aren’t even relevant to what we were arguing about, does give off the impression you are a victim of some serious conditioning and I noted you didn’t answer my question about who taught you all these things about rape, since you obviously have no personal experience yourself.I also found it interesting that you reiterated a number of times how most/majority people supposedly agree with you,how my moral compass is supposedly different than the rest of you,how the people I know are supposedly outliers and how my values are supposedly out of line with conventional society, I’ve to ask, why do you have a need to wrap yourself in a collective?Or on the other hand try to paint me as isolated?As well as your apparent inability to accept the possibility that someone could simply have a different view on rape than yours without resorting to attempts to try to label me as something or the other or try to discredit me in someway.Also there’s the fact you claimed you wouldn’t mind if you were actually brainwashed, while fanatically clinging to your views on rape.I’m no psychologist but all of that is rather concerning.

        That said I’ll try to reply as much as I can, even though for the most part all you did was repeat the same-things you wrote earlier with slightly different wording(seriously, you devoted majority of the post to your prejudice about rape and women after I pointed out how pointless that is, in the last reply?) and the points of mine you tried to argue are basically your opinions stated as facts with the expectation that I accept it, you might as well write “Rape is terrible, because I say so” at least that would be shorter.I see you questioned the credibility of the individuals I mentioned by claiming they might have lied to me?Well, what makes you think your friends you mentioned weren’t the ones that lied to you?That’s also just as possible.And your claims about how majority of people agree with you is just a plain lie, that might be true for the small social circles you travel in, but where I live most people would agree with me on this issue, actually that’s not entirely true either, most people simply don’t care about rape one way or the other, regardless of whether it’s trivial or serious they simply don’t care, which is understandable since most people have better things to do than worry about every little thing that goes on in the world, but I also do know a number of individuals who agree with me.

        And there is a debate about this in ‘modern society’ as you put it, you know that’s actually what I’m doing, debating.Umm, if you don’t really care, why did you bother replying?Especially considering my initial post wasn’t in response to you in the first place?The fact you think my views are sickening to most people here is actually your opinion not a fact, for it to be a fact you’d actually need to know the opinions of everyone who visits this site, which I seriously doubt you do.For instance GuardMonkey10 seems to get it and I’m confident even ones who disagree with me now will understand eventually.

        MRA as in men’s rights activist?No, I’m not any kind of activist although I’m curious as to how you confirmed something that’s not true, on the other hand if I sound like one, they must be pretty sensible guys.And I don’t have a circle of acquaintances that share my view, I’ve acquaintances from different social circles that share my view, there’s a difference.But at the end of day this is still just personal attack rather than a rational argument, if anything I’m the one wasting my time here.

        anon
        Reply

    4. It’s a give and take. For me personally, I think if you’re going to approach a subject that you know is controversial, one of the things you should be conscious of is how you depict it and how you use it, because there are people that can and are understandably offended by it. As such, I feel there’s a minimum effort that should be given to at least present some reason for its inclusion, but that does not mean that I’m not asking for a masterpiece narrative around it in the framework of fiction or that it need to be tip-toed around just to cater to those that may be offended. All I’m asking for is that some viable reason for its inclusion that makes it seem like something not included for impact sake, the usage of such a thing being terrible in and of itself for anything, let alone something controversial.

      I think the best way to summarize it is that I take a middle ground. I don’t believe in tip-toeing around something in this case, but I don’t believe in completely ignoring the presence of controversy in regards to certain subjects, warranted or not. The big thing is that shows like Valvrave and Sword Art Online seem to merely include rape for the sake of some ham-handed depiction of someone being a “bad guy” or for mere impact value, and I don’t feel that’s the way to go from a fictional standpoint or from a moral standpoint. That, and I worry in the respect that as time goes, more and more people will copy this development and inclusion merely to create shock value, which is a terrible way to go, as it depreciates not only the fictional development, but also the topic in general.

      In regards to Cross Ange, I did mention that there is a legitimate reason for showing such a scene, and in ways the cavity search may or may not even be considered been rape. I guess it didn’t come out as well as I thought it did, but compared to the other two series, I had much less of a problem about it being depicted in Cross Ange than it did in the other series, because there are reasonable contextual aspects surrounding it, though it’s up for debate whether or not it was used for those reasons. Ultimately, I’m just wondering if it was wise to include it, because some may be offended by its inclusion and because the inclusion of such scenes tend to also overpower discourse over the other aspects of the series, of which there are many I mentioned as worth being discussed.

      I hope that clears some things about that.

      That said, I understand where you’re coming from, and no, it wasn’t harsh at all, so no worries about that.

      Zephyr
      Reply

      1. I don’t know how to feel when the underrated site staff like you responds to the controversial scene in more profoundly professional manner than ANN staffs.

        On topic, this is so Sunrise. As usual, I don’t really have anything I like about the way Sunrise makes anime when it comes to mecha especially. Too much shock value and the themes they tackle, I do not care for it.

        Soliloquy
        Reply

      2. While I agree globally with the stuff you say, I disagree with the examples you picked. In my opinion the scenes in Valvrave and SAO (regardless of whether they were well written or not) were way more justified than in here. The fact that Cross Ange did this in it’s first episode screams of shock factor and fanservice just for shock factor and fanservice to me. And they failed at both. And like you said it’s up to debate whether that scene was necessary or not. They didn’t need to actually show it that way too to show the prison’s atrocity. See Rainbow, which had the same cavity search thing also in it’s first episode except done right.

        Rockmanshii
        Reply

      3. The thing for me personally is that you can’t just disconnect the inclusion of such elements from the writing associated with it. As I mentioned previously, I feel there’s a minimum effort that should be given to at least present some reason for its inclusion, and if you’re going to develop/write it as poorly as they were in those scenarios, you’re not giving much effort into it.

        I won’t go too much into Valvrave because it’s already been discussed many times (in the posts and a podcast), but I’ll just say that while there was a slightly loose bearing of that moment to the story, you could make many arguments that it didn’t need to be included, considering the later moments depicted attempts, but not actual rape. The depictions of the characters and their reactions after are also questionable.

        As for Sword Art Online, I don’t think using it for the mere painting of someone as a heinous villain is a good justification for it, especially if the characters aren’t particularly well-written and don’t have many facets to their personality. Honestly though, I wouldn’t talk much about it if it weren’t for the fact that rape/attempted rape or similar actions were repeated twice in two arcs, and in a similar fashion in terms of writing quality. That’s too often in too short of a time to be just a coincidence. At this point it seems like it’s merely being used for shock value/impact or just a literary tool substitute for proper development, and I just can’t agree with its usage in this way.

        Zephyr
        Reply

      4. From a writing perspective so am I fine with it as long as they don’t try and redeem the warden later. A cavity search may have been needed, but the beating, ripping clothes, rough handling etc was not. So as long as she stays a sleeze that takes advantage of her power so is it mostly acceptable, even if this episode would have been much better without it. What would be really bad is if later try to make it into some kind of toughening up deal and only done to make you a stronger soldier.

        Znail
        Reply

    5. Some of my most favorite works tackle these dark subjects directly, making them a focal point of the story and world, rather than including them for shock value. When a story doesn’t address these heinous crimes, it only enhances the tonal disconnect, making me wonder what was the whole reason for a scene that suggests rape or sexual violence. I’m sure you read the TVTropes entry for “Rape is a Special Kind of Evil.” It’s not even about being politically correct or fighting for social justice (ugh), it’s looking at your media and thinking about its implications. When you defend a “rape” scene, you don’t pull the “it’s fiction” card, you pull the “this scene is meant to demonize so-and-so character.” However, the moment you talk about authorial intent is where things get really messy.

      And I must say, there’s no such thing as “just” fiction. To relegate any sort of work to that is an insult to all creators and readers/reviewers/players out there, as fiction is how we perpetuated ideas since the beginning of time. It’s just that as humans we latch onto certain ideas while vehemently rejecting others. Just as you do here.

      Other people on the internet put it into words regarding the whole “it’s just fiction” line:

      http://fiction-theory.livejournal.com/175524.html

      http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/colson_justfiction1_mar05.asp (This one is more specifically about The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown)

      http://carm.org/shack-only-fiction (The Shack)

      Spec Ops: The Line (2012) tried addressing the whole idea of killing as entertainment and the cognitive dissonance that can stem from it in a period where military shooters were (and still are) the bread and butter of the games industry,it was REFRESHING, to say the least:

      http://i.imgur.com/U4YIDQ2.jpg

      http://i.imgur.com/THoOu65.jpg

      http://i.imgur.com/HwFghHu.jpg

      Now, “questions that lie WITHIN the framework of fiction” is restrictive in how we interpret any sort of work. As nothing is ever created in a vacuum, none of them should be analyzed in one is the logic I stand by.

      Solace
      Reply

  7. The princess had some fcked up things to say to that norma baby’s mother. Basically “just make another child” complete with a smile lol. Karma can be a bitch indeed. Anyway, i’m looking forward seeing her perspective being broaden…

    Satyr
    Reply

    1. You have to understand that that society is really messed up to begin with, they call themselfs perfect and the Norma are their only flaw, they don´t see them as living beings, only a danger so all that crap they talk is not just justifications, it´s the truth for them so really belive they have done nothing wrong.

      haseo0408
      Reply

      1. And considering Ange was probably even MORE sheltered than most not only because of being royalty, but because of her own hidden Norma status, it’s no surprise that she was essentially raised and all but indoctrinated into the same beliefs. Heck, sixteen years and that baby was the first time she EVER saw a Norma despite them being pretty well known about? How sheltered do you have to be to never see a well-known “problem” in your otherwise “perfect” society for sixteen years?

        In terms of the society itself…well…German citizens didn’t initially believe anything was wrong when “undesirables” were being persecuted and carted off.

        This also made me think again on how hypocritical the top of society can be. On the surface, they’ll demonize what they hate and promote what they believe will work best in their favor, but if either of those things suddenly directly and negatively affects them personally? They’ll tend to change their tune REAL fast. Otherwise, if it’s just everyone else, they could really care less.

        HalfDemonInuyasha
        Reply

      2. @HalfDemonInuyasha, there were camps in the US during WW2 for people of Japanese decent as well. So just because people are being deported to camps so doesn’t that mean that they are being executed in those camps. That is not something people could just figure out. To muddy the sides even more so was the reason that Japan and the US stopped being allies due to the US not supporting the Japanese suggested resolution for racial equality. So it’s not like if you were a US soldier fighting the Germans that you were fighting for racial equality as neither side were into that.

        Znail
        Reply

      3. @Znail

        That was Japanese complaint but the real issue was Japanese aggression in China that triggered the ban on oil and metal sales to Japan. Japanese atrocities in China had turned public opinion against them. Without those resources the Japanese war machine was stymied. Their assumption was that the US would not allow aggression against Australia and SE Asia and the US bases in the Philippines stood athwart the routes to the oil and raw materials Japan needed. Hence, Pearl Harbor and the attack on the Philippines.

        Bear
        Reply

      4. The falling out came first and if it hadn’t come then US and Japan would most likely have cooperated in China, rather then supported diffrent sides. Japan also wasn’t agressive before the oil embargo, any more then the US were as they just supported diffrent sides and neither were better then the other. For added irony so did US support the current communist regime while Japan supported what is now Taiwan, wich US now protects against mainland China.

        In related news, the US and Germany supported interim goverment of Ukraine has started to require the registration of Jews.

        Znail
        Reply

      7. @Znail:“The falling out came first and if it hadn’t come then US and Japan would most likely have cooperated in China, rather then supported diffrent sides. Japan also wasn’t agressive before the oil embargo, any more then the US were as they just supported diffrent sides and neither were better then the other.”

        What!? Are you serious!? Bear’s right. You might want to read about The Second Sino-Japanese War which began on July 7, 1937 while the US (and British) oil embargo of Imperial Japan began on July 26, 1941 (two days after President Roosevelt requested Japan withdraw all its forces from Indochina). In other words, the US-British oil embargo happened NEARLY FOUR YEARS after the start of that war, and OVER THREE YEARS after such incidents as the attack on the USS Panay (December 12, 1937 in which a Japanese attack on the American gunboat Panay while anchored in the Yangtze River outside Nanking killed two US sailors) and The Raping of Nanking itself which started on the next day (i.e. December 13, 1937).

        To state that Imperial Japan “wasn’t aggressive” until late July, 1941 is simply wrong and to suggest that the “US and Japan would most likely have cooperated in China” during that period unfathomable.

        daikama
        Reply

  8. This show could either be the next code geass R1 or an absolute catastrophe. For my enjoyment it probably depends on whether or not the guy in the opening will be the designated love interest. I so hope not. It would be a nice change if the love interest would be the other naked girl from the OP. I think Kanazuki no Miko was last Mecha with a homosexual MC.

    dean
    Reply

  9. For some reason I didn’t view that as a rape scene.
    They showed the tools on the wall in the background as it was happening so I thought they were doing something to make sure she couldn’t have children (to stop more Norma’s from being born)

    Drazah
    Reply

      1. Well, is it not the Same thing? They violate her Birthplace… you know what i mean. Rape is just when a Men come into Play? No Sir.

        And for that, would she not bleed to Death inside her Body?

        Germanguy
        Reply

    3. Yeah, she didn’t get raped; I doubt it. Too much blood at end for that. Probably got her uterus ripped apart or something.

      Or got her genitalia smashed in with the gauntlet.
      Those were my two main guesses anyhow.

      Hue
      Reply

    4. You’ll note that I said “rape (or scenes that imply it or something else similar),” so there’s definitely leeway here in terms of whether or not it actually was rape or not.

      The point though, is that there is something being forced upon someone in a similar manner, and that similarity to rape makes it a viable topic of discourse to at least mention, especially in regards to whether or not it should have been included and whether or not it was included merely for impact value. I’ll direct you to my above comment reply for more details about my perspective:
      https://randomc.net/2014/10/05/cross-ange-tenshi-ryuu-rondo-01/comment-page-1/#comment-1506381

      Overall, I guess we’ll see. The second episode should give us more details about what the scene was all about.

      Zephyr
      Reply

    5. I don’t know how you can see this as anything other than a rape scene. It serves the plot only in furthering to show exactly how disempowered she has become but the scene itself is so gratuitous and over-the-top that it serves only to shock after what is already a revolting start.

      Just so we’re clear here: the scene as depicted is the character being brought in chains to a filthy examination room, being forcibly disrobed, assaulted, forcibly chained down and acted upon, complete with camera swerve to show lightning and metal tools instead of the action itself. Preceded and succeed by hyper-sexualized art.

      Even if it’s only a cavity search it is still a rape scene intended to show how powerless the main character is. Reverse the genders and tell me what it is?

      Marcolin
      Reply

    7. It would very easy to verify that it was only some kind of medical procedure/ search and was necessary to character’s development (or it is only a fetish fuel) to show it if they showed any male Norma, who was subjected to the same/similar procedure. But ah, of course, I see there’s very coincidentally no male Normas. How convenient.

      gilraen_tinuviel
      Reply

    1. I don´t want to give you bightmares but It become a lot more horrible when you consider those monsters are going to do the same thing they did to Angelisse to that poor baby girl. I think I´m going to throw up.

      haseo0408
      Reply

  11. As i wrote earlier, this Rape thing. Do this Show need to for the Impact? To Show how dark her World is? A fallen Princess, from Hero to Zero, in a flash? Then the People dont really like her, and was just doing Lib services

    No, my Disgusting Sensor nearly Broke on me because of Overload.

    Nope. I do not see, that the next 2 Episodes will wash the Sins of Episode 1 away. They used an A-Bomb to explode the Audience, when catching the Fans..

    Germanguy
    Reply

      1. Considering how insane that world is, sterilize a person is such brutal way just to make sure nobody like her will be born, I´m sure they´re more than willing to justify incest just to preserve the purity of the blood-line and the power of the Light of Mana inside the royal family.

        haseo0408
        Reply

  13. I fear it’s another one of those, where a writer thought that sensationalizing violence and cruelty for shock value and to make his story more edgy- and to target the part of the audience with a rape fetish- while disregarding the logical repercussions was justified.
    Whenever I see that kind of idiotic plot device I ask myself how stupid the writer thinks people can get. You have those people with special abilities, so what do you do? You kill their loved ones, rape and abuse them, then train them and outfit them with extremely powerful weapons and send them to deal with your foes. If there is ever a recipe for disaster it is that.
    Idiocy like that immediately kills my suspension of disbelief. Ridiculous power in a strange world I can swallow no problem, all kinds of crazy societies no sweat, but stupidity on such an exaggerated level I can’t stomache.

    Let’s hope I am wrong and the writer does have clever answers for all the inevitable problems his stupid system will cause and doesn’t gloss over them or even worse have the heroine end up as an apologist for the system.

    bearzerger
    Reply

    1. “You kill their loved ones”

      That we only saw happen to her, though i’m sure other parents will go to extreme length, too.
      On the other hand i’m sure there are enough parents, who give “It” (Norma) happily away, guessing by the disgust and outright fear that was shown. It seems there is no punishment to birthing a Norma.

      “then train them and outfit them with extremely powerful weapons”

      This aren’t quite stick and stones, the mechas have surly a kill switch (OK, i doubt that one myself). And look up child soldier, a lot of the coming character will be probably been it. You can grow quite loyal to your only option to live in/for society, they can make career in the militar.

      Otherwise what? Do you wanna send perfectly healthy mana-use-able citizen to die if you have a ready supply (though, we don’t know the birth chance of Norma) of subhumans.

      Construct
      Reply

  14. Well that escalated quickly, not really sure what to make of this yet. So far it looks to be a mix of Geass and Valvrave with an added dose of “oh Japan” arena battles on the side. Considering the melodramatic nature surrounding the opening too I’d wager we will be looking at a train wreck here sooner rather than later.

    As for the “rape” scene it was by the looks of things a cavity search that some writer thought wasn’t provocative enough already. The more insidious scene IMO was the one between the prince-now-emperor and Nunnally his other sister where the implication is incestuous rape for the purpose of child bearing.

    Pancakes
    Reply

  15. At first i thought it was going to be yet another mecha anime showing a lots of skin and boobs. Then, i got the impression it was going to be an Ojou-sama power house kind of thing. Then, i got the feeling that this woman should deserve the same treatment as the woman who lost her kid. Then I started rooting that she totally deserves all the punishment. Until towards the end which i started to feel hesitant and bad for her. It was a hell of a ride, it was like someone killed your loved one and you go get revenge until the last second where you kind of don’t want to pull the trigger. I am definitively watching this and hope for more twists like this.

    The last bit, from what i understood was that they made a vaginal inspection? Or was it that they destroyed her ovaries so that she can’t re-produce more of her kind?

    banzemanga
    Reply

  17. Honestly, it’s getting too much hate for what it is. It was pretty okay, not bad, not terrible, not a trainwreck. It COULD be a trainwreck, but it isn’t one yet. Yes, lots of fanservice and shock value, but hey it has to attract potential viewers somehow. Other than that, I think the episode’s content was handled pretty well: introducing who the main heroine is and her fall from grace, setting up the villain, the conflict, the heroine’s motive for fighting when the time comes, the setting, its “magic”, its racism, etc. It was okay, yeah it feels very derivative from Geass and SEED but let’s give it some time before we start hating.

    Archiepiscopus
    Reply

  18. It looks like a lot of people are emotionally reacting to the fact that the society is absolutely terrible and the protagonist was completely screwed over. I’ve seen/read other things (like the Shield Hero manga) with similar starts, and it often feels like the characters don’t have a lot of complexity or the plot doesn’t have any subtle charm–rather, viewers are being emotionally anchored into continuing to watch the series.

    I’m kind of interested in hearing about the next episode. If it’s a major step up from episode 1, maybe some writer will be motivated to cover it as well.

    Watcher
    Reply

  19. I thought this show was absolutely terrible, to be honest. Disregarding the ridiculous elements that take me out of the experience (the entire opening, for one), it was just so mean-spirited that it completely lost me. And I *like* darker works. But this is not how you do tragedy or show a fall from grace. This is more akin to a teenager writing a ‘dark and edgy’ fanfic. It’s so utterly juvenile in all its forms that I lose all respect for its writing. The somewhat digusting rape scene don’t help either.

    Besides, the show utterly forgets to make me care for its world or its characters. Our heroine was massively unlikeable from the get-go, and now they expect me to care about what happens to her? Or care about the eeeevil Mr. Villain is going to do? Why should I give a hoot about this society to begin with?

    At least Valvrave was still funny bad for the most part. This on the other hand is just friggin’ awful.

    Dvalinn
    Reply

    1. Well you can drop it then, this show is indeed not for you and never will be, is pretty normal.

      I sorta like dark action anime, so for me is a pretty good start, it remind be of these late ’90 shows fullfilled with violence and gore.
      Sunrise surely know what to do to keep people interested even if the plot is redundant and reused. 🙂

      niki
      Reply

  22. The problem with the first episode is they tried to illustrate everything that is wrong with the society and why everyone turned on Ange so abruptly all in the span of 23 minutes. The show now has 23 whole episodes for us to watch her overcome her terrible circumstances. Hopefully the rest of the show will prove more interesting and nuanced than her sudden fall from grace.

    Absaroka
    Reply

  23. https://randomc.net/image/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo%20-%2001%20-%20Large%2022.jpg
    The Norma Act (lets call the laws governing Normas to be that) and their disposal reminds me oh how a certain city deals with its latent criminals. It’s chilling in its own way

    Also…

    https://randomc.net/image/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo%20-%2001%20-%20Large%2038.jpg
    That Orange…. She looks from Code Geass

    Makise Kuristina
    Reply

  24. The beginning fight scene looked super cheese-y. Women in thongs are whatever you call those underwear, sitting hardback on a motorbike riding off into the sunset to fight Dragons.

    Art didn’t seem to good. I think shows like Fate/Stay raised the bar so high. I am now expecting high quality Art & Color all over the place

    Now the positives! I am a little interested in this stuck up Magical society. Reminds me of the past season of Magi anime in a way. However, I can tell this show will have some serious fan service. Seems to have all of the signs.

    This show won’t be that great is my feeling. But it might be worth skimming over. Seeing the princess get dissed like that got me kinda angry. Anyway, I plan to just skim this thing when time presents itself. Have other shows that will take priority that have/will have much stronger openings

    Rick Anime
    Reply

  25. I don’t really know about a show being “awful” or “terrible” just from the first episode alone, but what I do know is this pilot episode has surprisingly left some impression on me.

    I thought it was a little obvious how things weren’t going to be rosy from the start, though, after Julio’s reaction to seeing the cheesy interaction between Ange and her team and opponents. A little too sugar-coated, and quite different from the titular heroine we saw in the first few minutes of the episode.

    Speaking of which, if we get down to thinking just a little, one would realise that Ange was the stereotypical princess (elegant, well-mannered but very sheltered with a tunnel vision on world views) living in a world with extreme prejudice of a certain type of human. I’d imagine the Light of Mana to actually have an equal importance as a state religion that plays a huge part in the lives of the people. It’s more like the monarch is just there to govern, while Light of Mana is the true ruler. Extreme prejudice doesn’t quite sit well with me but the depiction was well played enough from the Norma baby scene.

    I’d step away from the rape issue there until we get more insight into it. First impressions are important, yes, but they don’t always tell the whole story, which is another reason why I don’t find Ange a lousy main character to be disliked. If anything, I’m interested to see how they handle her character development in the future.

    Not too shabby for Sunrise, and should be worth staying tune for for at least a couple more episodes.

    Owaranai
    Reply

  27. During the cavity search (or rape scene however you want to put it) I just thought to myself, “This is what Normas have to go through?” I thought the scene was kind of necessary, it was a message to the princess that, “this is now you’re reality” as its been the reality of every single Norma that has been taken when they were an infant, as we saw here, or whenever it was revealed that they weren’t compatible with magic and treated as such. But who knows, maybe I’m wrong.

    ProfChaos
    Reply

  29. I see Cross Ange as that type of anime that’ll be entertaining whether it’ll be genuinely good or a glorious trainwreck(my bet’s on the later). It definitely seems more controversial than Valvrave though,with a lot more fanservice to boot.

    But anyway,thank you Sunrise, I’ll take this & Valvrave instead of something Buddy Complex any day.

    MgMaster
    Reply

  31. Well considering all the topical points have been addressed I guess I just feel sorry for what’s going to happen to the little sister, because I’m pretty sure everyone has a premonition of what’s going to happen there.

    G
    Reply

  32. I apologize to all princess Ange’s sympathizers in advance, but I really dont like this ange woman. I will just summarize my thoughts as follows:

    Ange: I’m sorry, your baby is dangerous, give up on her.
    Baby’s mother: Please! I will raise her right! I will teach her not to hurt anything! Just dont take my baby!
    Ange: Sorry, your baby is a monster. Make another one *smilesmile*
    Baby’s mother: **** you!
    ange: Why would monster such Norma born into this world… Such evil creatures arent suppose to exist… I will find a way to exterminate them all!

    *later* *ceremony fails*

    Ange: I’m no Norma! I’m blahblahblah 1st princess!
    Officer: Dont move!
    Queen: Dont hurt my baby! *dies*

    Baby’s mother: Ha! Serve you right!

    Man I love how karma work, for once I’m cheering for the bad guy, for now at least.
    But yea, I cant stomach how ange was acting all holy and pure infront a desperate mother trying to save her child. I really hope that ange would meet the baby later on and recall how their both mothers were desperately struggling to save their them from custody.

    Even after all that, ange was still in denial of being Norma and calling the officerwoman lowly and such. Therefore, that rape/Inception made me giggle…

    I do hope ange will change her point of view in the next few episodes and realize how naive she was in the past…

    Next episode: More rape/bully for ex-princess, horaay! Lets hope she will lose that holier than thou attitude and accept that Norma are people too.

    WayHeyUp
    Reply

    1. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, you deserve this.

      Btw, i’m pretty sure that Ange will 100% rescue the baby and give it back to mother in the next episodes when she understand how bad was at that time.

      niki
      Reply

      1. Well, You’re Right, But i’am not think about her hypocritical attitude or her royal rudeness. but i was thinking of something like…Well…

        TRY THAT TO MOMO-KYUN or BLADE and SOUL…oops…Forgive me for that Sarcastic Joke!

        and yes i admit those 2 shows are Incredibly lame…Still I Enjoy quite a bit

        Hakunamatata
        Reply

    1. Well some people just exagerate for the sake of make a fuss, but the main theme here is racism in a dystopic alternative world.

      Dunno but i really like these themes, expecially survival fictions with gore and violence, like late ’90 anime.

      niki
      Reply

    2. Are you asking for an example?

      Well, for an instance as a form of punishment for doing something wrong, since punishing someone typically involves harming them or doing something they don’t like, you can justify rape by using it in that manner.The above poster WayHeyUp is doing something very similar, he’s basically not just justifying but even advocating rape and other forms of suffering for Ange due to how she treated the baby’s mother and her general attitude.

      If you want another one, since we’re talking about fiction there’s basically unlimited number of scenarios to select from, one of the easiest would be an post-apoplectic world with only two surviving humans a man and a woman, with the woman not wanting to reproduce, I think it would be a scenario that justifies rape.

      Those two are the ones I can come-up with off the top of my head, if you want you can also take scenarios from anime that you justify murder with, tweak them a little as necessary and change the scenes of murder to rape, I’m sure you can get a long list of instances for justified rape that way.On the other hand maybe you meant you don’t consider rape is ever justified?In that case that’s just your opinion, a rather narrow view that I disagree with.

      anon
      Reply

    3. Unfortunately rape in Anime nothing new. Back in the 90’d I felt like EVERY anime movie I was watching on tv had rape or an attempted rape scene. >_> Unfortunately this trend is just cringe worthy at the least now. A cavity searcher that was that rough on the body is rape.

      Though in this case it just to shows that the Norma are considered military cattle (Sub human). It still very disturbing imagery to put in consider how badly beaten she is gets the point across already on it’s own.

      Ani_BEE
      Reply

  37. “it’s also not being given the treatment a topic of such importance should be given when it does”

    This is anime, not some kind of anti-rape protest in form of animation.

    When you try to force an ideology through art, you’re just failing at creating art.

    If they wanna show how cruel the world can be in a piece, then they’re gonna show killing, beating and, yes, raping.

    If you get easily offended by it, well, it’s a sad day for your. Japanese animators don’t care.

    André
    Reply

  38. What. The. F*ck.

    While I quite liked the whole subversion of the “perfect magical utopia” (equality? what equality princess), the combination of extreme fanservice everywhere and the rape-porn scene negated any positive feelings I had. Not sure whether I’m completely appalled or want to applaud this show. All I wanted was a slightly trashy giant robots vs. dragons flick. Is that too much to ask Sunrise?!?

    Damnit Japan!

    Hochmeister
    Reply

    1. Agreed. I came to the show saw fanservice and mechs fighting…

      Reaction? AWESOME!

      Then I saw really interesting socio-political controversies and was waiting for them to subvert them.

      Reaction? CAN’T WAIT!

      I didn’t expect the show to have female genital mutilation… that scene was also very rapy… she was waggling her butt at the camera…

      Reaction? That was… uncomfortable… and pretty yuri.

      Either way… after seeing the next episode preview, I can fully say… what’s up with the Yuri undertones or overtones? HOW MANY CHARACTERS ARE THERE!

      Either way… i’ll be watching the next episode. I’ve gotta know how magic works here.

      TitanAnteus
      Reply

      1. And that’s the thing that really gets me about this show, it could have been genuinely good if animated and directed differently! I would have far fewer issues with the rape scene if it hadn’t been shot like a hentai or if the episode hadn’t spent the past 20 minutes fetishizing the hell out of everything, but in the context of the rest of the episode and how it was presented it feels more like an attempt to pander to the male audience than to build character and setting. Rape happens in real life, and like violence and murder shows shouldn’t be barred from depicting it. However, fetishized violent rape is not something I want to watch, especially in a show that could otherwise be good.

        Hochmeister
        Reply

  40. My only criticism is that you should really compare how you treated the “controversial” scene with how a near identical scene is treated:

    https://randomc.net/2010/04/07/rainbow-nisha-rokubou-no-shichinin-01/

    It barely gets a passing sentence and isn’t regarded as an important point whereas this somehow warrants a paragraph? I didn’t even consider it particularly novel or shocking. It’s a depiction of how prisoners are treated that’s pretty cross-sex.

    Mirrored
    Reply

    2. I think the important thing to consider is that the scene was still pretty controversial in and of itself. The amount of space given to it might have been less, but I think that’s also a bit to do with personal writing styles, and it doesn’t lessen the fact that was still a very critically discussed scene then in various outlets. In addition, it has the notable difference in that it’s referenced off of actual events that happened, which also influences the kind of reaction and discussion that would occur regarding it. One could argue in terms of the perspective I discussed above, this was certainly justified in terms of its inclusion, and reasonable in terms of its depiction, which may not necessarily be the case in more recent usages.

      That said, it has to also be noted that few years does change perspective about the topic and discussion, and I feel that it’s important to at least spend some time noting that for such a topic has since become more notable and more prevalent in terms of overall discussion. As for whether this is a good/bad thing though, is up for debate.

      On a side note:
      Loved Rainbow myself. Hands down one of my favorite series of that year.

      Zephyr
      Reply

      1. I guess, my thoughts are that we’re totally willing to excuse it in a show like Rainbow because of the all male cast and because… well, Rainbow is a smart well-written show that really thinks about things before showing them whereas this is… unproven and not exactly high-brow.

        Still, I am highly critical of a reviewer (not talking about you, talking about that twitter guy) who somehow thinks this scene is unique or novel enough to warrant special outrage. Rainbow already did this, other shows already did this, and I think being offended by a really… obvious thing (prisoners get raped or sexually degraded. Women captured as political/war prisoners are even more likely to get raped or sexually degraded) strikes me as weird. I don’t know if people somehow missed out on seeing what happened at Abu Gharib, but anyone who is not an idiot should know that sexual humiliation is, and has always been, par for the course of prisons.

        Just because this show doesn’t have the mental horsepower to make it meaningful doesn’t really make it a snowflake. Maybe you did have to address it as a reviewer to stay in the conversation– because that’s the job of a good reviewer. However, I think the conversation itself was started by a sensationalist idiot with no grasp of what has already happened in the medium.

        Mirrored
        Reply

    3. I find the crying foul sort of reaction always gets amplified if the studio behind a show happens to be one of the more popular ones to bash like Sunrise, Gonzo or Deen which lets be honest get criticized a hell of a lot, sometimes fairly, sometimes not so much IMO. Honestly I really can’t help but feel that has a lot to do with it and I notice this double standard quite often. I’m not sitting here defending the show or anything but I feel that if you’re going to call a show out for something you should be prepared to do the same in all instances.

      John Hunt
      Reply

  42. Looking over the entire episode again in context you kind of get what they were going for in the episode but the actual implementation ended up failing because not showing what they were going to do in the final scene trivializes the overall point. Setting the prologue aside, the first part of the episode is there to setup the world and the main character; we’re in a utopian society driven by Mana but as tends to happen in utopia’s we’ve also got a down side in the form of those rare people (Normas), who not only can’t use Mana but seem to be able to actively disrupt it (I think this is going to be far more important to the plot than it initially appears so I’ll get back to it at the end). These people are not just ostracized by this society, they’re actively demonized by it. There are no good Normas as far as this society is concerned; they’re all destined to become insane killers regardless of how they are raised and they’re actively scanned for and then boxed up like pets and carted away from their families at gunpoint if necessary.

    Into this society we throw our main character; protected only by privilege until privilege pulls out the rug. Now she’s everything she hated but she’s also everything society and Norma’s hate.

    Which leads us to our second half which is where it becomes very important to realize just how far she’s fallen. By the time she’s being delivered to the facility her transporters don’t refer to her as anything you would associate with humanity; they non-challantly refer to their cargo as “waste”. Also key is that, once she’s delivered, you need to remember that at this point she has no friends in that room at all to speak of. I’m not using that in the “no one knows her” sense but in context of the simple reality that both the people in that room have reasons to outright despise and/or fear her: the officer on the simple grounds that she’s a Norma – everything she’s been taught to hate and fear – and the Norma on the grounds that this privileged little shit in front of her – who’s behaving like she’s special because “she’s a princess” – “made it to 16” without getting locked up in “Hell”

    Neither of them have any reason to be kind to her. At All.

    It’s in that context that I think the biggest mistake of that last scene was not that they brutalized Ange but instead leaving what they were doing to her in the last seconds heavily subject to interpretation instead of showing which one of the interpretations floating around the web actually happened.

    Oh, and getting back to the earlier point I mentioned: the reality that there’s a societal taboo forcing magic negating kids to be … conscripted into fighting dragons while the rest of society lounges about is way too convenient not to be a plot point later. You’d almost have to wonder how such a system that clearly benefits one side over the other would get into effect….

    Dave
    Reply

  43. I’m of 2 minds about the controversial “rape” scene. On the one hand you can say that it depicts the totality of her fall from grace and how literally everything was taken away from her, setting up what will probably be the main character conflict that will be tackled as the series goes on.

    On the other hand, I’m not necessarily sure on the propriety of the explicitness by which it was shown. As we’ve seen, Rape isn’t really that uncommon anymore in shows and so are other acts like torture. I tend to wonder though why did the producers decide to basically lift the scene out of some H Series. Even the VVV scene was more like it was saying, “this is rape”. The one from this show, in contrast, seemed to appeal to the purient interests more. Basically like it was meant for an H Series where they just cut out showing the parts that would make it an H Series.

    Juan
    Reply

  44. First of all, you people need to brush up on your definitions. Rape/Sexual assault does not always mean sex.

    From The Rape Treatment Center:

    Sexual assault is a broader term than rape. It includes various types of unwanted sexual touching or penetration without consent, such as forced sodomy (anal intercourse), forced oral copulation (oral-genital contact), rape by a foreign object (including a finger), and sexual battery (the unwanted touching of an intimate part of another person for the purpose of sexual arousal).

    What happened could definitely be considered rape. There are proper, clinical ways to do things for safety and medical purposes. That’s not what happened here. The point I think Zephyr is trying to make is that the sexual violence inflicted on this character did not need to be depicted the way it was.

    Secondly, I’m glad I always review a show before I show it in public. I’m the mentor for a large anime club at a university. We have to abide by the school’s rules and such to keep our charter. This show was one everybody was looking forward to seeing. NOPE. Not only is there that scene but how has no one mentioned the ERECT PENIS in the OP? WTF? Since when is that a thing you can show in a non-H series?

    Nekogrrl_77
    Reply

  46. https://randomc.net/image/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo%20-%2001%20-%20Large%2039.jpg Getting a physical is not rape, don’t care what you say. Getting a beating and bruises is not the same as rape either. Ange got a beatdown obviously for resisting.

    Sure, they had those metal looking things on the wall, which would be rape if they used them, but I doubt it. Jill didn’t seem like a liar and she said it would just be a physical exam. To anyone else thinking it was rape, show me the receipts!

    Moving on, if it was rape, nobody deserves that, but I don’t care about what happens to Ange. They showed her being all badass in the very beginning then they reduce her to being a typical royal spoiled asshole. That kills the possibility of me caring about the main character when they do stuff like that because at that point in time Ange truly believed in the ideals of how people should treat Normas, which means she is an asshole. Don’t care if she changes later like most characters who do a heel face turn or is it face heel turn? I forget the trope sometimes.

    https://randomc.net/image/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo%20-%20OP%20-%2005.jpg Don’t care for wannabe Suzaku or whoever this potential love interest is either. Why do most dudes gotta have brown hair nowadays anyways? What happened to all the pretty colors like blue hair or green?! It’s always either red, brown or blonde!

    That was just a minirant pet peeve type of thing. I really don’t care either way, Ange is an asshole, the dude probably didn’t know she was one and fell for her before finding out the truth. Typical how those things go.

    I like the mech designs, the dragon looking things look like meh. The mechs themselves reminds me of Robotech/Macross (I found out about Robotech first because I owned the PS2 game lmao) and that’s cool. The art style in general reminds me of CLAMP. Is it the same people?

    https://randomc.net/image/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo/Cross%20Ange%20Tenshi%20to%20Ryuu%20no%20Rondo%20-%2001%20-%2033.jpg “Payback is a bitch!”

    magoiichi
    Reply

  48. soo. Are we really saying a rectal exam is equivalent with rape? It is even confirmed in the second episode that she is still a virgin.

    I know this is kind of a late post and that no one will likely read it because of that. But regardless of how uncomfortable that exam may have been for some people to watch, it was not a rape scene. There is an attempted rape in the second episode however it gets interrupted by a dragon attack.

    I do agree as well that the scene that comes in with the other normas all standing around naked and one girl gropping the other was really out of place and served no purpose.

    But I will say that these first two episodes have hooked me on the series. Which is funny because I was originally thinking of giving it a pass but decided to 3 episode rule it.

    Bijyu
    Reply

  49. Wow, Ange’s fall from grace.
    So in the time of Cross Ange most people have evolved to ‘Newtype’ status, Mana using beings.
    The Mana users despise the non-Mana users, Normas.
    Thats what I get.

    They could use some Quantum Burst to understand each other and live in harmony.
    Hope they would reveal more on the history later on, how all came to be.

    Empire of Misurugi’s east west mish-mash reminds me of Nobunaga the Fool.
    Some characters made me think of Code Geass.

    I can’t see the aim of the show yet.
    Ange strives to survive, defeat dragons then defeat her brother and reclaim her rightful place?
    I see no strong meaning in the show yet.

    Where does the Dragons (“Dimensional Rift Attuned Gargantuan Organic Neototypes”) come from?
    Kind of reminds me of the Hideauze in Gargantia.

    iron2000
    Reply

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