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「清水寺攻防」 (Kiyomizudera Koubou)
“The Battle at Kiyomizu Temple”
Oda Nobuna no Yabou – 09
The anime has reached the tipping point for Saru’s usefulness–from a wealth of knowledge to emotional support. Now that the future has basically been stripped of Yoshiharu’s grasp, he only has what he calls his ‘soul as a civil war era gamer‘ to make the calls. Those calls would still be useful, if not for the key aspect of Nobuna: she is much more engrained in her ideals of freedom and unity than her historical equivalent. As a character who believes that the ends do not justify the means, Nobuna is unable to resort to sacrificing emotional anchors in her life in order to achieve her dreams. Nobunaga, historically, made some violent calls in the course of his conquest that involved the harming of civilians. This was a trend of the Sengoku period–the goal was highly prized and the methods unquestioned. However, thanks to the genderbending of the period, conquest must be achieved through fair game, something that Sagara was reminded of. Nobunaga the conqueror vs. Nobuna the dreamer. Thus, instead of following what Nobunaga would’ve done to succeed, Saru is now forced to view through new lenses, to predict what a fair and kind-hearted Nobuna will do next.
This diversion from time makes it all the more exciting for me personally. It becomes interesting to now compare all these diversions from the actual timeline, to see if these diversions actually make sense. Mind you, this means more research for me (after I write the body of this post, I’m going to be spending hours researching all the events that happened this episode and two episodes previously), but it also means becoming surprised when history decides to turn left instead of right. Even though I’m not following the series, it seems that Kyōkai Senjō no Horizon via Stilts’ coverage follows a very similar coverage style, where history and fiction interact. Though Nobuna may follow a more preset plot than Horizon, both require tons of research, so I give my shoutouts to Stilts onii-chan for putting lots of work into research!
Shoutouts aside, I want to focus on the dynamics of two characters this season, one of whom surprised me more than the other. Firstly, Danjou, as I suspected, switched sides and surrendered, but it was done in a tone that I didn’t expect. The lineage that Danjou comes from has a history on siding with the inevitable victor, which will be seen again some centuries later during the Meiji Restoration. Danjou also surrendered quickly in Nobunaga’s timeline, allowing him to stay Daimyo of a region. Thus, it was predictable from a historical view that Danjou would eventually join the winning side of the Oda. However, she joined Nobuna because she was inspired by Nobuna’s ability to rally the hated and the lost—an interesting twist. Though the reasoning cheeses up the plot, it is a surprise that lends to the general theme of the story, and explains many of the events of episode seven. What would’ve made this moment better would have been more exposition to Danjou’s past and intentions (in fact, more exposition on the antagonists would be great), but given the timeframe of the anime, asking for original material is too much.
That leaves the second dynamic to examine to the star of this episode, Mitsuhide. To be frank, I’m disappointed in her exposition. She almost had the potential to become a breakaway character and spice up the plot significantly, but at the last moment, Nobuna rallies everyone else to her side and snap Mitsuhide back to her ideals. On top of that, thanks to Saru defending her at the last minute, it is inevitable that she will fall into his de facto harem soon enough. I loved her struggle to stay loyal to Nobuna and to her own dreams as it provided an interesting window into her internal struggles with being wanted or loved. Her display of devotion to those she believes in and the honor that she struggles to keep is a great addition to the show, representative of the samurai ideal. It all could’ve been a much deeper plot if Mitsuhide had, even temporarily, switched over to the other side, for it would’ve given so much potential for her character to grow in the end. However, the show’s flaw–ending on cheesy and happy notes–gets in the way.
Nobuna is a great show, don’t get me wrong. Even though I have not seen many other Sengoku genderbenders, from what I hear, it’s well up on the top. The problem that holds this show (and I assume the light novel as well) from being great drama is partitioning the plot way too much with happy victories. Sure, people may bleed some blood now and again, but in the grand scheme, nothing permanently negative has happened to ANY of the characters, even the antagonists! Although Saru and Nobuna may fight at times, by the end of the episode, they’ve made up and blush at each other. The thrill of the conclusion, even for this episode, become weakened from this conditioned expectation that ‘everything will be alright‘.
But now that history has been changed to the point of no return, what will happen next? The next episode’s title is Nobuna in Grave Danger (although it looks to be part hot springs episode as well), so perhaps this expectation may be broken. At this point, nobody knows what’s going to happen next, even those acquainted with the Sengoku era, so let’s go in together and finish up this series!
As an open question the commenters, what do you guys think of the end of this arc? Besides Danjou’s ‘skin’ and groping, what else stood out for you in the episode? For those of you acquainted with Sengoku history, do you guys still think that Honnou-ji will happen? If so, will it still involve its key player?
Historical Notes: A Combination of Episodes 7 and 9
Preview
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Hidden gem this season. Keeps on impressing me every episode.
hidden, by the insane amount of constant income of new lolis
Good casual fun. I am hoping the date masumune does something crazy though. I liked sengoku basara.
Sagara never changed his cloth since his arrive. He must be damn smelly and dirty if it’s realistic. Oh wait!
It’s pretty standard.
Don’t see anyone making the same complaint about Escaflowne.
http://i.imgur.com/ZN9J1.jpg
There’s also the loophole about how his clothes get repaired. Remember when that ninja guy through a kuni that cut though his school uniform arm and slashed him? The next episode his school uniform was back to normal. Those clothes were made in the 21st century plus they are western inspired so how did he get it fixed back in this period of time in fuedul japan?
Ask Escaflowne!
The power of anime!
the lack of drama makes this show worth watching
No stitched screencaps? Talk about letdown.
gotta catch em all..
..daimyos
:3
im expecting more drama with this episode and all i get is boob-groping, hanbei’s fire neutralizing aoe spell, yoshimoto’s bitchy-itchy attitude, and nobuna acting cute again.
..we are lacking for more score keeping. darn.
“To see if the diversions make sense”
That’s the thing, they don’t really make sense. In most of these cases, there is very little logical connections between the changes Sagara made and the variations in history.
Some do exist!
Since Dousan is still alive and Nobuna places great value in him, the opposition would of course take on this opportunity to call the bluff of Uesugi and Takeda to distract Nobuna.
Thanks to the Imagawa shogun still alive and kicking (who was the Daimyo closest to conquering Japan before Nobuna), Nobuna doesn’t require a member of the Ashikaga family to march towards Kyoto.
Since Saru was able to befriend the Christians before Nobunaga would historically, their assistance in Nobuna’s quest came earlier (they do eventually help Nobunaga, but after the march on Kyo).
Now of course some diversions will never make sense, such as how Fried Takoyaki affects Sakai, or how Nobuyuki is able to take on three separate people’s roles in history, but there are some that sort of make sense. They may be ridiculous, but they are ‘logical’…enough. 😛
“Since Dousan is still alive and Nobuna places great value in him, the opposition would of course take on this opportunity to call the bluff of Uesugi and Takeda to distract Nobuna.”
That’s… pretty tenuous.
“Thanks to the Imagawa shogun still alive and kicking (who was the Daimyo closest to conquering Japan before Nobuna), Nobuna doesn’t require a member of the Ashikaga family to march towards Kyoto.”
Right… but the part of history that was changed was the fact that whoever-it-was managed to avoid being assassinated.
“Now of course some diversions will never make sense, such as how Fried Takoyaki affects Sakai”
Well Sakai actually makes sense. Nobuna was supposed to burn Sakai originally but because of the Sagara her personality is different so she doesn’t burn it down.
I wouldn’t call capitalizing on a publicly emotional weakness of your enemy a weak reason for attack. Nobunaga’s ultimate goal was conquest, so we could bet more that Nobunaga, without much of an emotional attachment to his home provinces, would’ve kept his forces in Kyo as the most logical reason. Since Nobuna is different in this regard (more emotions than logic and strategy), and everyone knows it (publicly naming a castle after Dousan), it makes sense for the Miyoshi Three to fight with psychological warfare in this regard. All of this is because Saru averted Dousan’s death.
The avoidance of assassination wouldn’t have affected whether they used Imagawa as their figurehead: even if the Ashikaga had approached the Oda from the assassinations, it would’ve been in the better interest of the Oda to take along Imagawa instead due to her lessened ability to create complications.
Sakai also wouldn’t have burned down with or without the help of Saru…well probably. Although Saru did stop the execution of Nobuna’s brother, it was already in the interests of Nobuna beforehand to keep Sakai from burning due to her interests in Nanban culture and her beliefs in freedom. Also, the burning of Sakai was due to Nobunaga desiring control of the city: the burning was a consequence of their refusal, rather than say, Mitsuhide’s suggestion to burn and loot the city immediately. Hence, in this case, the burning of Sakai in this scenario, with or without Saru, I would say is less likely.
Again, as I implied in my last statement, these aren’t the most easy to swallow of conclusions, but they do follow a certain order of events at least some of the time, and it’s a treat to see when those connections pop up.
(Reply to your post directly, I guess it only goes up to 3 levels).
Actually yeah, I suppose it does make sense, or is at least more reasonable then I initially gave them credit for.
I still think Honnou-ji will happen as it’s a pre-destined event, but the factors leading up to it will probably come from a completely different angle than what Yoshiharu had expected and thus the result of that event might be also be influenced by him.
Currently as we’ve seen, Yoshiharu’s actions are changing the factors that surround the major events, but not the actual major events themselves. (ie Mino province still came under control of Dousan’s son, regardless of him saving Dousan.)
Am more interested in what he’ll do AFTER the Honnou-ji incident as he has zero knowledge of events beyond that point 😀
nice………ep i hope sagara does not freak out since he was not able to get the future…….but is a nice develoment since if the story goes by the book it would to boring and damn he has now more lolis then ever i hope next ep is better then this one. like always 😀
Visually pleasing madhouse quality.
Especially the moment Danjou start caressing her breast…….”yep, that’s the standard madhouse stuff”
The series is more of a collaboration between Studio Gokumi (Gonzo exiles since that studio folded, their first title being A-Channel) and Madhouse. But yeah, breastgroping is definitely Madhouse.
In Danjo, Saru seems to have added a quite dangerous and sexually-hungry yandere for his harem. lol
Latest news is author Kasuga Mikage plans to write a spin-off series with Bontenmaru (Date Masamune) as the protagonist, seeing how she’s so badass despite her brief appearance in the main series.
Trivia: Emperor is a mystic miko-loli who can read other people’s minds by touching them, and her seiyuu Morohoshi Sumire, is more or less a loli herself at 13 years old.
More Trivia: Bontenmaru’s seiyuu Okubo Rumi (better known as Chinatsu in Yuruyuri and Tsumiki in AcchiKocchi) happens to voice a genderbent Oda Nobunaga in another Sengoku anime series Sengoku Collection, though that series is aimed more towards young children.
In the end, Nobuna gets saved from a bullet in the blink of an eye by an iPhone app.
Suggested tagline Apple could use for their App Store – “There’s an app for changing history.”
Himeko-sama your voice is just HNGGGGGGGGGGGG!
The seiyuu voiced Clara in Kurage-hime 2 years ago when she was 11. Quite easy to figure out how old she is now.
So…
I would suggest you better don’t go too far LOL
So she is from India, Saudi Arabia or since it is that era, Ottoman Empire??
She is a half-Persian.
The Monkey is indeed a bit of Sengoku-jidai Otaku.
80 point for mentioning Yamamoto Kansuke. One of the most bravest and honorable general of the Takeda clan. Now, The Monkey is forced to make babies with Shingen, Katsuyori and her Four other generals… could it be…. Yamagata Masakage, Baba Nobuharu, Kousaka Masanou, and Sanada Nobutsuna ?
but with the mention of Yamamoto Kansuke… there’s should be three remaining…
And he is right, Uesugi and Takeda Alliance is no different with Lu Kang of Eastern Wu allied to Yang Hu of Jin which is not possible. THis is one of the Thirty Six Stratagem, Clamor in East, Attack in West. The same stratagem Cao Cao used to misdirect Yuan Shao force during the battle of Baima.
Hikaru Genji….. whew…. the most disgusting historical character in my opinion (at least Sima Xiangru is much bearable, disgusting….) if i am not wrong, it is raising a child as if your own blood, but end up marrying them yourself. …..
if I am not wrong… did Matsunaga Hisahide’s Persian troops used Talwal as their main armament? they are not the Hashashin sect, right?
This Himiko…. is she supposed to be the likes of Himiko from the semi-mythological era of Japan, after the legend of Inada-Hime? i recall a character named Himiko as a souvereign of Jomon era or Yayoi era of Japan. ….. please correct me if i am wrong, because they had the same characteristic. A seer who direct the people using the word of God, blind (but have supreme insight, hearing, and intuition). If i am not wrong it was after the reign of Emperor Jimmu.
There appears to be no emperor/empress in Nobuna’s “worldline” but a linage of shaman queens who possess supernatural power, and “Himiko” should be more like a title than a personal name here.
Wikipedia shows the historical Himiko as 卑弥呼 or 卑彌呼 and the Japanese wikipedia page about the LN/anime shows the queen as 姫巫女 which means princess priestess.
The Japanese Wikipedia offers a more accurate connection to Konishi Joaquim (Portuguese spelling). He was named Konishi Ryuusa prior to his baptism and died in 1592. He had a connection to Luís Fróis, which should put him more of a contemporary to Nobunaga’s time.
Thank you for the clarification!
It makes me so happy when we all examine history together! ;___;
I’m unfamiliar with the historical timeline vs the anime, but would the Honnou-ji incident be a logical breakpoint? If so, then, you need at least a two-three episode arc of that incident, leaving the final episode as the first chapter in a new season…You’d hear the screams from everywhere if you do that, OR if history is well and truly severed by the anime timeline, then the final episode would leave Monkey facing a future he does not know, and people talking for months about what will happen. Frankly, I happen to be a believer that ‘time heals all wounds’, and the next cour might just find Monkey eventually realizing that history is coming back into alignment, though along a different path. This would leave him in the bind of wondering when his knowledge again becomes valuable, or explosive enough to knock history back off the path. Just sayin’
Mitsuhide is love.
Nice posts you wrote. I appreciated Historical notes so much. Thank You.
I am fond of this show as it mixes fantasy and history with a lot of wit, but I’m afraid they’re rushing it a bit too much. I really hope they won’t unfold all of the story till Honnoji Incident in just three more episodes, as it would cut a lot of fun. Nobuna (and Saru) still have to confront themselves with so many foes that cutting it all would be a shame.
Nevertheless Honnoji is bound to happen, but It won’t be interesting unless it happens in some Saru wouldn’t expect. What if wouldn’t the traitor be Juubei but someone else (just saying)?