Posted by  |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
「デス・カウンター」 (Desu Kauntaa)
“Death Counter”
Seriously. I’m convinced that there’s nothing this anime can’t do. It combines everything that I love about great storytelling and characterization with a spectacular animation company backing it all up. Death Parade is the epitome of not only what I love about anime but also what I love about crime dramas and television. It takes a lot of guts to step outside the box to produce a show that may or may not get the right appreciation but Death Parade does nothing wrong that I can’t help but praise it. Not only was it complex and unpredictable, but it had a lot more Decim and Nameless Girl involvement that develops its underlying story. Initially I thought that Shimada might have MPD or was in denial of injuring his own sister… then I thought Tatsumi was probably guilty of injuring Shimada’s sister and also murdering his wife’s killer… but it turns out that none of those theories are true. In fact, Tatsumi is actually a serial killer who reminds me a lot of Dexter.
I’m going to break up my analysis of both these men since I think they suffer from different issues. Let’s start with Shimada because to me, he was the individual that was most likely going to redeem himself. He wanted to seek revenge for his sister for good reason (although I wouldn’t say murder is the best answer) and then live happily ever after. He was doing it all for the benefit of his sister and I definitely saw an internal struggle in his character. He knew what he was doing was wrong and even vomited after he committed murder. This shows how his body was rejecting his own thoughts and actions and I think it reinforces that he does not have a murderous soul. He simply had a strong motive and the only solution he had to stop this stalker from attacking his sister, was to kill him (which I still think is wrong, by the way). However, it’s because of his “good” intent that I thought Shimada had a better chance of redeeming himself. And Decim gave him a way out; if only he had taken it. Personally, I was urging for Shimada to prove that he was better and that he was the bigger man. Move on and forgive Tatsumi. In the end, they’re both dead anyway and Nameless Girl pointed out to him that “stabbing” Tatsumi was never going to benefit him except for his own self-gratification right now. I was so hopeful… but of course, Death Parade never seizes to prove me wrong. Instead, I’m left with this excruciating pain of knowing that Shimada is just like Tatsumi. Enraged and someone that succumbs to his desires of revenge and hatred. By the way, did anyone catch how Shimada died? I don’t recall that part…
Now for Tatsumi… his story is a little different because I always thought he deserved what he got. I felt no remorse for him and where he ended up. Unlike Shimada whom I felt had a higher chance of being reincarnated, Tatsumi was a lost cause. He was too corrupted and his ideals of justice were so twisted that there was no way this kind of man should be walking the Earth again. Although I can understand his philosophy on life and why he does what he does, I don’t believe that two wrongs make a right. I believe one wrong is already bad enough and as a detective, Shimada is right – Tatsumi should be stopping the crime AS it happens rather than after the fact. If anyone’s seen Dexter, Dexter almost does the same thing where he has to be certain someone is going to attack again before he kills that person himself (and he usually targets serial killers that can’t be caught by the law). Tatsumi is somewhat like that, but instead he has to witness someone committing a crime AND he does nothing to stop them! Why not? Why does he have this hunger to try and judge people outside the law? That’s one question that I felt wasn’t answered; aside from this “voice” of approval that he heard from his wife. He could almost be considered insane in my opinion because he was no longer thinking about his duties as a detective but his own selfish motives. Definitely a quick judgment in my mind; Tatsumi did not deserve to be reincarnated. He had no redeeming features and in fact, he corrupted Shimada even further which was hard to stomach.
As for what happened between Decim and Nameless Girl this episode, I wasn’t too pleased with how that played out. Not that I didn’t agree with Nameless Girl’s arguments about Decim but I thought her character was too over exaggerated and involved. I understand that she wants to help these men… she WANTS Shimada to walk away alive and live to see his sister again but at the same time, you can’t throw yourself in the midst of this game. And on top of that, you can’t blame Decim for “doing his job”. I’m not going to get into the argument of whether or not judging people is right or wrong because that’d be defeating the whole purpose of this anime, but I don’t think Decim is wrong for trying to evoke emotions and actions out of these men. He’s trying to determine if these men’s souls deserve a second chance at life and even though Nameless Girl tried to stop it, Shimada and Tatsumi both ended up destroying themselves. So yes, I think they both went into the void… but could things have turned out differently? I don’t think so. I think Nameless Girl was a little naïve to believe that there could’ve been a different ending and she’s beating Decim up for it because he gives them too much credit or as she puts it, “humans are not that complex”. In some ways, Nameless Girl was a little harsh on Decim because he’s not human anyway and to assume that he can think like one and put himself in their shoes is a little unfair. However, as the audience we do know he has human emotions in him so that’s probably why he was so stung by Nameless Girl’s words. This is probably where the episode is going to head next week on as we hear more about Nameless Girl’s life on Earth or her connection to the Chavvot story.
So my final verdict is… they both definitely went into the void. There’s no way that Shimada would be spared after that smile and those shattering pucks. Of course, I already mentioned that Tatsumi was obviously going to the void for his mistakes as well. In the end, I still think it’s a sad loss for Shimada not to be reincarnated because he had the chance if he wasn’t so influenced by Tatsumi’s words. Nameless Girl did her best to help but it was inevitable that they would both be lost causes. Quite an interesting development and terribly upsetting at the same time because I really wanted to believe that they could be saved. I was hopeful but I should have known better because Death Parade is not such a predictable show.
Bottom Line – @RCCherrie: That wicked smile says it all. Just how tainted can your soul be to smile like that. The best ep of #DeathParade yet! The human psyche can be so dark yet fragile. One wrong step can lead you down the rabbit hole.
Preview
 |
 |
 |
It’s very clear that getting their memories did a number to Onna, and is why she acted like that. This was the first time she ever experienced it.
I agree that this was the best episode of the series. It even surpassed the first episode in my opinion.
Tatsumi is not a true detective and he deserves the void. However, I feel sorry for Shimada. His only real sin is caring for his sister. I have younger siblings so I understand where he is coming from and I can imagine myself doing the same thing in his position. I think sending him to the Void is a little unfair. He was provoked and his anger was justified.
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2030.jpg
I thought the 4th was better than the 1st imo
He got stabbed in the back or something by the rapist, didn’t he? The rapist grabbed a knife anyhow so the kid probably bled out.
I feel like we should all commend the voice actors. They’ve all done a great job in making us care about characters in just twenty minutes. This episode with Tatsumi, who was such a convincing felon, and the teenager who truly conveyed his grief so well.
Of course this is what I’ve been thinking — everyone has a dark side and it’s foolish to think forcing it out of them is fair judgment. This brings up a question about why arbiters even exist, and what’s necessary of them? It’s a very broad idea and I’m hopeful that they can satisfactorily end it wih the little time they have left as this show as been very consistent so far. Looking forward to the next episode!
Also I don’t think Onna was out of line at all. She knows that she is human at this point, doesn’t she? She’s seeing someone completely take advantage over human nature, so of course she’ll act up. She knows what emotion is and feels it — the grief she felt through this must have been so intense. Even if she knows it’s futile to explain it to Decim (although it’s kinda not with what we know) she as a human wants to help Shimada, doesn’t she? I don’t even think it’s shock. Just her knowledge of everything makes her realize that this system is completely unfair. We haven’t seen too much of that previously, as the results all ended by themselves. However, we see it when Onna tells Decim to stop the sabotage in the arcade game episode. She’s reaching a breaking point, topped with the extremity of the case.
So give Onna some leverage here 🙂
My thoughts exactly, Onna said everything I had been thinking for a while now and I was very glad she tried to stop them from destroying each other.
If people have to be judged, why set this whole elaborate game up, where you drag out the worst in them? Why not do the opposite and make a game where you judge on the brighter and more deserving side of human emotion. Why not judge on how high people can reach, but on how far they can fall?
What you’re saying is interesting, but I think there are two problems with it:
1) how would you set up a game testing how nice people can be, that isn’t similar to what is currently in place? (Look at Brown-haired girl and idol, the two actually worked out pretty well.)
2) I think it’s a bit like a team: “the team is only as strong as its weakest link.” If society is filled with souls that work out to be overall good even during the bad times, then the overall society can range from (very good to harmless). Whereas if all you’re measuring is how good they can be, you still have no gauge for how BAD they can be. So the overall society would still range from (Very good to very bad)
Just had a thought that might make my view a little clearer.
One could argue that the tests DO check for how good people are. Because it’s easy to be nice, when the situation is good. It’s much harder to be nice when the situation is bad.
If all you were to do was provide people a happy game with no conflict, I imagine everyone would get chosen for reincarnation. (I’m inclined to think that anyone who would be mean, even when things are good, are the kind of people who would have been judged for the void without the need for the game)
Now don’t get me wrong, I love how the game is set up – it makes for a thrilling experience! But I find it terribly unfair and flawed. I feel that everyone has the potential to do deplorable things to his fellow humans, as well as extraordinary deeds of kindness, given the right circumstances.
But does one deed negate the other?
As Nona states, the the most primitive human emotion is fear, and that’s what the games are based on. Do you think that’s a reasonable way to judge whether someone has the right to another chance at life?
Quite possibly, yes. One could say that measuring a person’s ability to resist fear (and thus not lash out killing people when you have a bad day) is part of that whole “you are only as strong as your weakest link” thing I was saying earlier.
When there is no pressure in a test, people are free to lie and deceive. Not necessarily because they’re evil, but because they know what answer society is looking for. This is a problem social scientists often face, because they have to try and disguise what they’re looking for when testing people. (It’s illegal to conduct death games after all)
Once they’re under pressure, their answers are honest. (It may only be for an instant, and they may regret it later, but they genuinely wanted to take those actions at the time).
Shimada was stabbed by the rapist and died, I assume, of blood loss.
dang hella people getting the two mixed up. shimshim is the younger man. tatters is the detective. and no, we don’t know how shimshim died. I was curious too.
We don’t know how he died, though blood loss is most likely, but he most definitely was stabbed. When Shimada first stabbed the rapist and followed him into his apartment the rapist picked up a knife from his sink and stabs Shimada in the back when he lunges for him to finish the job.
He then proceeds to vomit in the bathroom without doing anything about his wound. Tatsumi wanders in. Shimada stabs him in the back and lays on top of him. He then likely bled out there.
If he was stabbed in the Lungs, he began to suffocate on his own Blood.it was only a matter of Time
All I can say about this episode is Intense!
Is the next episode for Black-Haired Woman’s judgment!?
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%20Preview%2003.jpg
Thank you, Cherrie!
I don’t think next episode is Onna’s judgement. It seems too early with 3 episodes left and all the episodes which have had a judgement game in it have the word “death” in it. With a title like “The Story Teller”, I’d expect it to potentially flesh out the Chavvot story.
According to the preview for ep10 on the official website, yeah the black hair girl is getting judged.
Also since 22/3 is the last episode already, they probably only have 11 episode for Death Parade.
22/3 shouldn’t be the last episode? Since episodes are every friday so even if it was only 11 it’d end on the 22th. Also, I’ve seen 12 episodes listed on other places.
Anyway, good to know about the preview. I’ve also seen that Decim apparently wants to quit being an Arbiter? If so, it wouldn’t surprise me if something goes amiss during the judgement game like in episode 5. I think it is possible we’ll see Onna be judged and sent off next week but it’d also feels strange since she’s been one of the main cast and there’s still 3 episodes left. I could be proven wrong, though, and she’s gone and then the last two delve more into Decim and things about her are more the aftermath.
GAAAH. Sorry, should only be 20/21 not 22 ><.
I see 12 episodes listed on Syoboi although episode 12 doesn’t have a title yet. I’m assuming it will end on the 27th of March. You can check here: http://cal.syoboi.jp/tid/3633/time
best part of the ep was the intercut ED sequence, no sound (save music) just images of their lives intercut with the violence and depravity of their current situation
Yeah, I feel like that this was the first time that the ending song actually fitted the scenes it was being played with.
I really enjoyed this episode, draining as it was; however, there was a key point to this that I feel that reveals how Decim doesn’t appreciate how people think. It made sense, offering Shimada the knife and the pucks; while Decim knew how deep Tatsumi was, and how unforgivable he was, offering Shimada the pucks and knife was a sign of how readily he would go into his darkness. Tatsumi was prone, already dead, and Shimada couldn’t kill the man again. Instead, Shimada hesitated.
The problem came from how Decim didn’t shut Tatsumi up.
It may sound like a small thing, but a moment like this was something that should have been a lone observation. Even if it was just Decim and Onna there, Shimada was alone to his thoughts and his rage. If he took the knife, he was no better than Tatsumi, but if he wasn’t, then he was possibly able to be reincarnated. However, Tatsumi knew how to get under Shimada’s skin, and that’s where the problem occurs. Shimada’s test wasn’t a sound one because of outside interference, polluting the results by goading him into taking one option over the other. Onna interfering was simply fair play, trying to have one voice balance out the other (it’s a bit like the Id and Superego, with the Ego balancing between the two). However, she wasn’t as effective as reaching Shimada as Tatsumi was, and thus the balance was tipped over. And it was deliberate.
Could Shimada have been saved? I honestly think so, had Tatsumi been shut up. He made no attempts to grab the knife until Tatsumi purposely goaded him into it, putting ideas into Shimada’s head. As I said before, what was supposed to be just a test was polluted and corrupted the results, like deliberately adding bits to a scale. The game couldn’t be reset, and the end result was a broken soul. That Decim allowed Tatsumi to speak was a huge mistake on his part, and it makes sense as to why Onna would be so angry – not only had Decim put out that kind of test, he didn’t even carry it out properly.
I dunno, I could be wrong with this. The games are meant to look into how characters act to show the darkness within them, but normally they don’t actively try to break the other person after knowing they’re dead. This was a freak case, and it shows a pretty big weakness in the judgements.
My personal assessment – BOTH OF THEM TO THE VOID!
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2022.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2023.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2039.jpg
You would be a bad arbiter lol. Shimada didn’t deserve getting sent to the Void…
What can I say? He fail the test…
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2014.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2032.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2037.jpg
Its Shimada’s fault for falling into his trap. For example, even if you’re being threatened to murder someone, you’re still a murderer, it doesn’t change the fact.
Tatsumi really went mental by the end of the episode specially with all that bullshit about needing a victim to validate punishment (as if catching someone red-handed during the act isn’t the most condemnation he could achieve, he clearly totally lost it), we almost felt like the Joker with his “i want to see the world burn” mentality and trying to wreck Shimada’s mind, and that smile .. that damn smile .. his insanity was really over 9000 XD
(copy-paste of reply to you from elsewhere)
Other than the “vengeance/judgement needs a victim to avenge for” (bullshit!) reasoning, Tatsumi also said that in order to judge how horrible a person the rapist was, he wanted to know if the rapist would use the knife to stab/murder Sae. To, you know, judge the rapist appropriately. Of course, this is also bullshit because the verdict is death either way…
They both deserved the void in my opinion. Tatsumi for his crazy personal view of justice, its obvious he simply enjoyed killing criminals, nothing more. And Shimada for his affinity of stabbing people.
Was anyone else amused with the twist about Tatsumi, given his VA’s work on Psycho Pass 2? As for how Shimada died, its downplayed but you can see the wound if you’re watching for it. The rapist stabbed him on the side/back during the struggle right before Shimada finished it and that area is stained in the shots of it in the toilet and when he collapses after killing Tatsumi.
As for Onna’s rant, I don’t think she was wrong in what she highlighted. Part of the problem with that situation is it was very much one of “some people fall, others are pushed”. I don’t think it was inevitable that Shimada would have failed but I do think Shimada had enough going for him Decim could have chosen to void him or reincarnate him so giving him a final test makes sense. However, what Decim misses is that you can ALWAYS push a person further and you can ALWAYS draw out more darkness from someone. Push them far enough and of course they’ll break. That’s part of why Onna/the narrative chose to draw the parallel between Decim and Tatsumi in that situation. It stops becoming about “judging” someone and becomes more about pushing them until they snap, which is extremely easy to do with the right “simple” triggers.
Hell, part of me is wondering if Nona PLANNED on Decim needing to learn what Onna was trying to drill into his head this episode. We’ll probably find out next episode how Nona feels about Decim’s latest “test” but I can see it being a case where either a) she’s disappointed because he failed again b) she figured he’d fail but was relying on Onna’s presence to finally teach Decim to doubt the system/to force him to start thinking of a different way/to kick start his emotions. She DID have that smirk on her face as she told Decim to treat this situation like any other and that people are people, so it felt clear she’d wanted SOMETHING out of him from this. Either way, I’m almost positive next episode is going to deal with the fall out of Decim’s decision and his kickstarted feelings on the matter. There’s even a part of me starting to wonder if another reason she keeps Onna around is to teach Decim about “grief”, since atm (I’d personally say 50-50 it sticks) Onna’s going to judged and disappear from his life, especially since Onna brings up the idea of how Arbiters don’t understand things like that. It might end up being a Last Unicorn situation where Decim’s the one person in the Arbiters who knows what it feels like to lose someone you care about.
Based on the preview for the next episode, I’m guessing that the “three months” Nona told Decim about refers to how much time Onna has left. We know that the humans (and Artbiters) are dolls and in the fifth episode the doll turned into the same dust that was in the preview. Most likely, Onna’s body wasn’t built to last and it’s part of why the deadline for her judgement is coming up. However, I don’t think her judgement is next episode, despite what some people have guessed. First, we still have three more episodes. Second, this is a BIG event. It’d be difficult to cover judging Onna along with the fallout of this episode. Third, all the episodes with a judgement game in them have the word “death” in them. With a title like “The Storyteller”, I think we’re more likely to find out the full Chavvot story. Since this arc took two episodes, it wouldn’t surprise me if Onna’s judgement takes up the last two episodes (her partner may be Mayu? Since we need to deal with her too).
For Shimada’s fate, like I said above, I don’t think it was inevitable he’d be doomed or that he was a lost cause. However, he got pushed right off the deep end and fell to Tatsumi’s level, as evidenced by that matching grin. There’s no way he didn’t go to the Void after that.
Shimada bled out, looks like he took the wound from the assaulter in his kidney, so that wouldn’t give him long before things started shutting down after the adrenalin wore off.
What interested me most this episode though was how Decim is going about invoking the memory return for those on trial (if you would have it); been thinking it for the past few episodes, but it really shines through here. Decim appears to be using pain as the trigger, a method that quite nicely fits with his ignorance towards the emotional intricacies of his guests (compare this to Ginti who simply invokes fear in his guests). It could even be said that Decim’s usage of pain is what pushed Shimada over the edge, without the possibility of vendetta he likely would not have succumbed to the temptation.
If anything it does show the main flaw with the current arbitration setup: the unilateral reliance upon memory and revelation. Decim brings out the darkness as he is fond of mentioning, but his method could be argued as simultaneously producing said darkness. This is likely why Nona is testing Decim, seeing if he can find a way to work around the underlying concern succinctly illuminated this episode. Nameless girl’s reaction may have been hyperbolic in this instance, but it does provide the foil necessary for Decim to adapt and grow; he needs to see emotions directed towards him as much as others to begin to understand how they function.
It will be interesting to see if Decim learns how to make use of emotional logic to better his arbitration. If his reaction was anything to go by this episode, he likely will sooner than later.
I wouldn’t say that Shimada ultimately was destined to turn out so emotionally devoid and warped, that was just legitimate verbal torture and Decim only facilitated the urge.
The moment Tatsumi was revealed to be twisted you could tell how that was going to end, not because Shimada is weak in his entirety, that scenario was just evil. The things Tatsumi said, almost bragging and berating to Shimada? Making the dude feel so awful? Is that honestly right? Decim flat out gave him these materials while watching him writhe around in agony of his anger and sadness. Wouldn’t it be fair to say that Decim, to some degree, sets his sets up for failure even to begin with?
Poor guy had to essentially raise and protect his younger sister by himself, not the easiest.
Am I the only one here who wouldn’t let anyone (so far) send to the void? I wouldn’t call them good humans, but it’s not like they are serial rapist, that enjoy what they do. All of them have good qualities, that imo outweigth their bad ones. And I think most of the candidates could live a happy second life, if things like the murder of his wife didn’t happen. If your sent to the void because you cheated once, that’s very harsh isn’t it. Your soul gets erased forever for such a minor thing. Again it’s that they were evil or so.
Truth be told I can understand you. In fact, the death of criminals is something I quite support – the law be damn. What bugs me is that when they got it wrong.
Shimada killed the rapist? I’m all for it. Him killing Tatsumi – not so. At the time, he was all stabbing mode and didn’t kill with the correct motivation.
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2014.jpg
Tatsumi killing those criminals? I’m cool with that assuming that they are wrong. Him letting Sae to be raped – not cool. And then there was the fact that he didn’t kill these people for justice – he did to it get high. What an asshole!
https://randomc.net/image/Death%20Parade/Death%20Parade%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2018.jpg
Both of them get sent to hell and Shimada successfully went to the dark side but damn it man, you were so close…
This episode highlights the notion of “justice” very well.
Although, at first, the circumstances of both gentlemen seemed similar, if one really thinks about it, they are polar opposites. One wielded the knife in retribution, while the other for the sake of his “justice”. One did it for another person while another did it for his ideals. One believed in acting while another believed in reacting. For the good of one or for the good of many? Though, having said so many opposing ideas, does that mean one is right and one is wrong?
This episode powerfully displayed how “justice” or “righteousness” are notions of relative fluidity and is thus only “cut and dry” when given form or structure. But as or white-highlighted girl succinctly puts it, “humans aren’t that complex”. Everyone’s justice is just and everyone’s righteousness is righteous, since each and every one is brought about by our personal experiences in life.
And in the words of William Shakespeare, “If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?” If then, these notions are merely results of the human condition, what can be said to be injustice or evil? Who has the right to judge? Certainly, this question is the crux that moved Death
Billiard’sParade’s plot moving forward in revealing Decim’s not so “doll-like” self. I, for one, believe that evil is actually imposing your own ideals on others, thus robbing them of the very thing that makes us humans unique: having a choice.It remains to be seen on how this plays out as we haven’t even seen what has happened to groupie girl :3 at the 20th Floor or a lot of other things. BUT, I sure love how things have played out so far and am eagerly awaiting the next episodes!
Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Everybody, put your hands up~~!!
Your comments were my exact sentiments.
Righteousness is a notion of relative fluidity.
It’s hard to condemn Tatsumi since we can see how he may have turned out that way. And it’s even easier to empathize with Shimada.
However, a question that arose in my mind after watching the episode and reading through all this discussion about justice, righteousness and the characters, is about the rapist.
Everyone openly condemns the rapist. Of course, I think rape is abominable, even abhorrent. I can fully feel Shimada’s pain.
But taking the view of this episode, or of Death Parade perhaps, that justice is hard to define, and we shouldn’t impose our ideals on others, then what about the rapist?
“Everyone’s justice is just and everyone’s righteousness is righteous, since each and every one is brought about by our personal experiences in life.” I think so too. But it’s just hard for me to accept the fact that the rapist’s justice is just, and his righteousness of his self-serving actions is righteous.
Well Tatsumi actually is acting pretty much according to law – at least in my country, people are never judged BEFORE they commit the crime. If you have a stalker, if you have someone threatening you, there isnt much you can do. I think that this is a giant flaw in the system, but appearantly there are enough people in this country who dont. And thats not much different from waiting for the crime to happen – you might as well look at the scene happening. In that sense, Tatsumi didnt seem to me to be that crazy…
But definitely more deserving of the void than Shimada, just because of his lack of empathy. I think the anime really wanted to make the point that even murder is not easily judged. shimada was one of the few people (were there even any others?) that didnt continue the game – even when he could have easily won – out of concern for a complete stranger. as terrible as it sounds, sometimes I think two wrongs DO make a right, if you dont expect for “devine” judgement to ever come. and shimada was kind of right in doing what he did. it was not the murder that made him go to the void, it was him giving up in the end.
Attempted rape is also a crime. He was there in the middle of it. He could’ve stopped him and he wouldn’t have been wrong to do so. There was no reason to let him do it, other than to get a chance to kill the guy without any witnesses around.
Well, yes, you’re right with attempted rape. but here you often get 6 months and thats it. the law does differentiate between attempted and “accomplished” (sorry I dont know the English word for that).
and that doesnt change the fact that our laws often require the crime to happen before they start to protect the (not yet) victim. Like I said – I really dont want to defend that guy all too much, its just that he didnt appear to me to be completely crazy, considering how many crimes could be prevented, but our judiciary just doesnt/cant do anything…
There was a reason given for letting the rape occur anyway. Tatsumi claims that there was a chance that the rapist would use the knife to stab/kill Sae, thus Tatsumi had to allow the crime to happen in order to appropriately judge how despicable the rapist is/would become.
Does the above sound like terrible reasoning? Well, it’s the same type of reasoning the judgements in the show are based off of.
Cherrie:
“I’m not going to get into the argument of whether or not judging people is right or wrong because that’d be defeating the whole purpose of this anime, but I don’t think Decim is wrong for trying to evoke emotions and actions out of these men. He’s trying to determine if these men’s souls deserve a second chance…”
I think that at least a major point of this episode was to argue just that very thing. Just like Ginti and the other arbiters, Cherrie seems to be unquestioning of the system.
@Monimoni
Great analysis!
Though he should’ve probably mentioned reporting the crime to emergency services (and there’s no indication he did not report it in)
Rushing in would’ve been a bad idea as well. The rapist was armed with a deadly weapon, capable of killing his victum at any moment. Keeping her alive is more important than stopping the rape.
@Drasca
“(and there’s no indication he did not report it in)”
If Tatsumi had reported the crime to emergency services, why would Shimada have found his sister back home, alone, and without any sign of having been treated for her wounds?
Except that the whole reason Tatsumi was doing what he was doing (judging criminals) was because he was frustrated that the law couldn’t judge all these crimnials and they got away with the,shit they do, so saying his logic makes sense or is like the law seems like a self-contridicting excuse.
Also, he seems to just kill criminals as he never said he did anything else to them, so how differently would he have judged the rapist if he killed his victim… Wasn’t Tatsumi going to kill him anyway.. So why let Shimada’s sister get raped if he was going to kill the crimnials anyway… There is really no defending Tatsumi’s broken logic here, he could have saved Shimada’s sister and killed the rapist avoiding all this misery but his broken logic resulted in Shimada’s sister getting raped, Shimada’s death death and Tatsumi’s own death as well.
The fact we’re all so riled up only reinforces what Onna said – we’re only human. Arbiters, having never experienced life nor death, can never fully step into this perspective. In fact, what gives them the right to judge and what are they really judging in the first place? The human soul is more in depth than just light and dark (eg. telling a white lie, lying in general is frowned upon, but lying for a good cause?).
If you read psychology profiles etc, you can further read into what makes people succumb and how they eventually end up being numb to their misguided actions. This is exactly how serial killers can do the unthinkable many times. Ironically, this also brings us back to the arbiter perspective, how can they systematically judge the dead over and over again with the instructed process.
As people who have never gone through what Tatsumi and Shimada have with their loved ones (and I hope we never have to), it’s a little hard to empathize what they’re going through and what they gone through. The emotion that should have been placed the highest emphasis here is Love, it’s honestly what make humans unique in a sense.
Well, we had two people being reincarnated previously, it’s definitely safe to assume Tatsumi and Shimada both went to the void. And I gotta say, the ED coming on when Shimada smashes the pucks? Absolutely spine-chilling and golden. Overall, this episode gets to me, even more than Psycho Pass when at it’s peak.
“Ironically, this also brings us back to the arbiter perspective, how can they systematically judge the dead over and over again with the instructed process.”
It was explained in episode 7 that after a set period of time the arbiters lose their memories of the people they have judged in the past. So, the arbiters can supposedly judge with a relatively clean slate over and over without becoming biased. Supposedly.
Except it is an obvious plot hole because they are indeed affected afterward, and can gain experience from it. Maybe an intended one to stir the pot, but definitely not the central point. Probably a red herring.
@ Drasca
*poises fingers to start typing a rebuttal*…
*thinks a bit more about connections between gaining arbiter experience and memories*
Damnit. >:-(
The only things I can think of are:
1) The typical (non-Decim) arbiter doesn’t really try too hard to learn from past experiences. Therefore they typically just do the same thing over and over again without suffering doubt and/or crushing boredom.
2) Different ways of observing are learned from recent judgements, and what is learned is not forgotten by the memory wipe. What the memory wipe does is just make the arbiter forget when/why that lesson/skill was learned.
The above two things are contradictory, I know. They’re not meant to be both right.
I certainly agree Moni!
I think one of the central points is that our main blue haired manipulator is trying to break the mold with Decim learning more than he’s supposed to within that society. There’s stuff he’s not supposed to learn of course.
I believe the memory wipes are incomplete. If they were complete, they’d never learn anything. Though that perfectly blank slate is a possible desired stated outcome, I don’t think that is the case, because they’re introducing Decim as a trainee before letting him go off on his own.
Clearly they learn and grow, even if they forget the details of the persons involved.
At this point, I am wondering if the blue haired girl is grooming Decim for the seat of God. . . or the top manager wants to pluck that early (as opposed to stopping Decim, which is probably what blue haired girl expects).
I just had a thought about this, so here goes:
Regarding “what right do the arbiters have to judge,” I think it’s clear that the right was given to them by whoever created the system in the first place, and created them for this specific purpose. As this system involves someone called “the closest man to God,” it’s not a stretch to guess that a God gave them the right.
Now as for WHY to use arbiters to judge, who have never been human, it might be to create as impartial a system as possible (rather than a compassionate or empathetic one). We do something similar in the American court system: when a person is being tried for a crime, the judge asks jurists if there is any reason they can’t approach the issue fairly. Though we say “tried by a jury of your peers,” they are not actually peers. Burglars do not get judged by a jury full of other burglars, and the same can be said of murderers. Even though I’m sure that both burglars and murderers might have a understandable reason for committing their crime.
This creates a predictable system where “if you follow the rules, this is the outcome you get” as opposed to “Even if you violate the rules, if I can sympathize/understand your pain the outcome may change.”
Perhaps our Onna (if she is not a Mysterious Death Parade member) could be a Judge in her Human Days
One word–intense! Actually, two words–intense! Brilliant! This episode kept me on the edge of my seat until the very end.
When Tatsumi walked into the stalker’s house, I was like, “Oh no, Shimada mistakenly killed Tatsumi thinking he was the stalker’s friend?!”. And when it turned out Tatsumi was indeed the friend, I was speechless with my jaw dropped. I could not believe how Death Parade brought us back into a full circle, and with such brilliant writing as well!
Like everyone, I agree Tatsumi was beyond redemption. The fact that he just stood by and watched sealed his fate in my opinion, regardless of his sense of justice, or rather, his twisted sense of justice. I really feel sorry for Shimada though. After all, the trigger point for him finding and killing the stalker and his “friend” was his sister’s words “I want them dead”. The agony of knowing he couldn’t protect his sister must have been excruciating. Knowing the truth about Tatsumi would understandably send him over the edge, as it’s so much worse that someone who all the more should have stopped the crime just merely stood by and watched, resulting in not one, but two damaged souls. Man, even I would’ve wanted him to get a really, really hard lesson (though not necessarily murdered of course). It’s totally understandable why Shimada ended up killing Tatsumi again, but this time not mistakenly, but with full intent of avenging his sister…
Another tear-jerking episode. When Shimada said those words at the end, I thought, how would he be able to fulfill them, as he will no doubt be sent to the void?
The animation and voices were just superb in this episode. My favourite anime last season was Mushi-shi, and Death Parade easily has become my favourite this season. Can’t say thank you enough to Cherrie for bringing it into RC and continuing with it, otherwise I would’ve totally missed this great anime!!!
Thank you for reading! I’m glad you enjoy the show that much =) And don’t worry, I’m sure if I didn’t blog about it, someone else would haha!
Yeah, Cherrie, thank you!
I can see Decim reacting to Onna passionately lecturing him, but there was something in the way this was executed that felt really off. I mean Decim is standing there with his typical emotionless expression, then Onna gives her speech, and only after the speech has wound down, Decim suddenly reacts quite intensely. It seemed like a directorial mishap, because it would have made more sense for there to be some cuts back and forth between Onna talking and Decim reacting while he was getting admonished. YMMV.
Tatsumi also in the end raised to be an Shinigami, too. Killing (in his Eyes) Bad People, until he fail into the Dark Side. Reeks like Darth Vader, thinking he is do a right thing for Humanity. He put himself as Executer and Shinigami, like a Street Judges from the Movie Judge Dread (Silvester Stalon)
Shimada (strange name.. schimata = Shit?), lost it, when her Sister wanted them Dead. He Sister is also wounded in Body and Soul. She is also indirectly and unknowingly culprit of his Brothers Action. But in his rage Mode, his Adrenalin put his brain in a Dark deep Could. So that he would killed all Person that enter this Apartment. Even if it would be a Police Officer, he had just the “KILL!” Sighs big on his Eyes
And Yes, Death Parade Anime life from the Top Notch “Voice Actors”. They give these 2D Chars a Soul
So both ending in the Void is the right conclusion. Someone raised as Judge about Life and Death of others, and someone that fall into Despair that he turned out as a Killer
Even if you could follow their motivations, both long lost themselves to their Dark Sides with Blood on their Hands
Am I the only one concerned about Shimada’s living little sister? It’s obviously hellish situation for her after getting attacked, his supporting brother died too.
I was thinking about that, too. I think she would definitely feel guilty about her brother’s death because she would be informed that he died after killing her attacker. Her brother’s life is definitely not worth having her wish granted. Not sure she would find out about Tatsumi’s identity as co-conspirator in her rape, though.
My English is horrible (both in performance and in meaning) today:
“Her brother’s life is definitely not worth having her wish granted.”
should be:
“Having her wish granted is definitely not worth sacrificing her brother’s life for.”
*ashamed*
Yeah, I wondered about that too. She’s practically all alone now.
IMO, it is stupid to judge these two people. They should be sent to void immediately. Why do you even need to judge them? We gotta be consistent here. We are talking about FINAL judgment here. We are talking about the void vs reincarnation system here. When we talk about “void vs reincarnation” there is one consistent rule: killing someone is sin. Good reason behind killing is just another way to sugarcoat the sin itself (go watch fate/zero). In the end, killing is killing, no matter how justified it is. There is no other way around it.
*patiently waits for Miserable to start backpedaling once the concept of self-defense is brought up*
Or, if Miserable truly thinks that defending his/her own life against a human-killer is a sin as well, I wonder what he/she thinks of all the non-human organisms he/she kills every single day just to stay alive.
Moni, I could not upvote your comments quite enough! If I could, I would a hundred times over.
I don’t see the world as black and white as you do. I think killing someone is always circumstantial and that’s why people go to court and get trials (at least in my country). Like people mentioned, there’s self-defense and there’s always the plea for insanity (which I find a lot of serial killers exercise because they are in fact, mentally ill). That’s why we also differentiate between first and second degree murder; it matters HOW and WHY things happened, not just WHAT happened.
Also, by saying these two should automatically get sent to the void, means that you don’t believe in second chances. That’s pretty harsh because I think everyone is subject to change if given the right environment for growth and development. These men clearly weren’t given ideal situations and became this way as a product of their surroundings. You can say that Tatsumi probably didn’t deserve to be reincarnated because his soul was at its core – dark and twisted… but Shimada is just someone who wanted to protect his sister. I’d like to think that there’s always hope for people to feel remorse for their mistakes and want to change if they did something wrong. If not, then, lacking empathy may be a sign of being a psychopath o_o
I’m probably going to be the only Tatsumi sympathizer here. Did he deserve what he got? Not talking about just the void or reincarnation here, because he certainly doesn’t care about that, but he definitely didn’t deserve his wife being killed, or being killed himself by Shimada.
I see a hard boiled detective dealing with the hard realities of life & death effectively. Is life nice? Is he nice? No. He was able to do what was within his power to make his society a better place. If your society is pampered and your expectations are fairly care-bear because your society can support being nice all the time, you might hate his actions because they stem from a place and society where the rules and perceptions are different.
He’s eliminating criminals ‘Dexter’ style. There’s no indication he’s not reporting the crimes he’s witnessing to local law enforcement, though being remorseless about what he’s doing is certainly abhorrent to some people. If you do a job, or are in a certain job however, you need to get over emotional shock and remain calm, or you cannot do the job. The same is true for medical professionals and dealing with the wounded, and how they’ll crack jokes on just how dirty the human body can get. Marines can be squirmy about the needles their Medics play with all day long, but have no qualms about guns, knives and fights.
I don’t hate what Tatsumi does, or the fact that he’s remorseless for it. I admire his calm about pain. He may have provoked Shimada, but the game is (literally) rigged, and Tatsumi knows it. Tatsumi’s no saint. He’s the anti-hero type, but he’s not the villain, and he certainly did more good by cleaning out the trash of society.
I can’t say the same of Shimada, who was just utterly reckless. He made the decision to go on a vengeance spree without confirming the facts, and leaving his sister without support. Just as it was more important for Tatsumi to keep the girl alive than to rush in against a rapist that could kill her at any moment, it would’ve been more important for Shimada to support his sister’s recovery by remaining alive, crimanal free, and being there for her rather than going off to try to kill the rapist. Tatsumi only gets a pass because his family was killed, and he had nothing left to lose.
There is no defending him because his logic is self-defeating, watching as Shimada’s sister got raped didn’t make any sense, if he intervened and saved her killing the rapist non of these tragedies would have happened… Shimada’s sister wouldn’t have gotten raped, he and Shimada would have been still alive and maybe even working together to hunt rapists and criminals, but the moment Tatsumi explained to Shimada why he watched his sister get raped and did nothing to stop it he lost me… At that moment he clearly became deserving of the Void.
If he intervened, the most likely scenario is that the rapist would’ve turned murderer, and the sister would’ve been killed. The best case scenario is saving her, but it is very unlikely and not worth risking her dead.
Tatsumi is clearly working within the limits of his society’s rules, just as Decim is. They do not judge & execute until after action has been taken. There are flaws to those rules of course, but Tatsumi’s competent and acting within the societal boundries while Shimada is not– and was irresponsible. Should you judge a man for obeying the rules of his society? or should you judge that society? I blame the latter.
The irresponsibilty part I cannot forgive at all. Shimada was irresponsible. I can respect Tatsumi because he was responsible, but Shimada neglected his sister’s care on a quest for vengeance, and worse was incompetent at it. He got himself killed when he was supposed to be taking care of his sister. Pathetic.
“There’s no indication he’s not reporting the crimes he’s witnessing to local law enforcement”
You mentioned this before in a reply to me upthread, so I will also reply here with the same question:
If Tatsumi had reported the crime to emergency services, why would Shimada have found his sister back home, alone, and without any sign of having been treated for her wounds?
Lots of possible reasons, the most likely of which being that she didn’t want to face the police for questioning & evidence gathering. It is unfortunate, but it is very unpleasant to actually go through with rape reporting and the subsequent body invasive tests required to gather evidence and take testimony. Most women opt out, wanting to just get out of the bad situation rather than subject themselves to being probed for evidence, having their wounds photographed and documented, etc. It feels shameful and humiliating, and that’s often the last thing they want when they’ve just had a violent experience. . . that’s for the US. Japan may be better or worse, though likely the latter.
I don’t know why exactly Shimada’s sister didn’t immediately go to a hospital immediately afterwards, since it isn’t stated (other than plot demands it). I can only speculate she had chosen not to and/or decided to go home first since people tend to seek comfort. That’s what most people do.
People don’t automatically go to the hospital when wounded. You’d think that might be the first logical thing, but other underlying motivations & instincts are usually what dictates their behaviour.
As I understand it, Japan’s social structure is really bad when it comes to public shame too, so I can only imagine it is much worse, and they definitely do not want brave coming public about their issues, for fear of being labeled social outcast. That would be especially the case in a smaller town / village.
I’m also not certain how Japan’s healthcare system works. I know if you’re in the wrong income bracket in the US, you could be in debt for life for one treatment at the Hospital. Some countries are gratis and take care of you for such emergency services. Some folk don’t want to go unless they absolutely have to, because it’ll ruin them financially.
@ Drasca
I wasn’t asking why Sae would decide to go back home rather than go to the hospital/police (that part is an understandable reaction). I was asking why she would be allowed to go home untreated (and alone!) if emergency services had indeed been called.
I just do not see why you are assuming that Tatsumi is contacting the authorities (which he also is one…) after witnessing crimes. His screwed up reasoning about victims of crime being required in order for him to justify his killing of criminals does not lend any credence that he feels obligated to help those victims out after the crime (other than with his self-assigned “vengeance” missions).
After re-watching the episode a bit, I can see how the “could have stabbed/killed with knife” comment could generously be interpreted as not being able to interfere with the crime due to worry for the victim’s life. But right before that Tatsumi said that he needed to witness the entire crime unfold so as to determine the extent of the criminal’s activities in order make a judgement. It’s obvious where Tatsumi’s priorities lie, and the well-being of the current victim is just not that high up on the list.
Also, wouldn’t contacting the other authorities just make it harder for him to kill the criminals? Why would Tatsumi purposely get other police involved and possibly have the criminals apprehended by others before he can get to them?
why she would be allowed to go home untreated (and alone!)
Allowed to? I don’t know what society you’re in, you can always decline health services here. You have to verbally, and sometimes make a signature declaring you declined services for paperwork processes.
You’re also assuming she didn’t leave before anyone else arrived. Fight or Flight reaction… I am assuming she flew home (or declined if services did arrive to meet her).
I am declaring we don’t have enough evidence to judge Tatsumi either way, because his history is not shown (beyond these few incidents). We’re never shown the before and after consequences of his actions, other than we’re told he’s killed the criminals of society.
Priorities aren’t as important as action, especially in the case of legal matters. Character is only as important as what he does with it. Does Tatsumi have an abrasive personality? Yes. Does that make him evil? No. What’re the results? Sister alive, rapist identified and soon to be dead. Other criminals dead.
It isn’t your job to be a hero, and in most brutally violent situations trying to be a hero when you’re untrained (with no backup!) will make it worse. Your job is to report what’s going on. Emergency services have people who dedicate their lives to handling the situation appropriately, and with back-up from other service people. If you’re there, and rush in, you’re just as likely to get yourself, or shimada’s sister hurt, as to do any good. Criminals run from or surrender to Police, because there’s an entire nation of them trained how to handle the situation.
Would you prefer a person that jeopardizes Shimada’s sister’s life? That person is Shimada, and most people here prefer him because his ‘character’ is redeemable. I don’t, because he’s clearly made bad decisions repeatedly. I do not fancy the ‘fixable’ person fallacy.
Would you honestly tell me you’d prefer Shimada that jeopardized his sister’s life & livelihood repeatedly (attacking the guy not once, but returning twice). After planning to meet the rapist in his own home, what if he failed to kill the rapist? Even if he survived, he’ll be known for murder and crush his sister’s social future, let alone being unable to emotionally & financially support her anymore (from prison, or the grave).
The greatness of this show is that they’ve portrayed both ends of the spectrum, the innocent and naive turned berserk, and the calm and experienced side turned cold. Between the two, I would prefer the latter, because I prefer competency.
Tatsumi’s rarely been innocent. He’s long lost that growing up into the hard boiled detective he’s been.
Also, wouldn’t contacting the other authorities just make it harder for him to kill the criminals?
Maybe, maybe not. You have an entire 8 season tv series devoted to this concept, Dexter. Again, we don’t know since we’re not shown.
The comments section on death parade has the most insightful and interesting comments i have seen from an anime yet.
Why is this anime sooo good??
I don’t know but I’m seriously considering donating to the animators. It’s that good!
Simply import the original BD. That way, you support them, the industry (people won’t afraid to try to create good things) and you also get the good stuffs in BD.
At the end of each episode, I try to analyze Death Parade with an “inhuman lens”–that of an arbiter or a/the God, I guess (speaks volumes of how I think of myself…just kidding). From that, it’s clear that what they’re doing in this after-death place is not any human’s business. I think that using “darkness of the soul” (generally I define this as the will to inflict pain on others) is a clear criterion. A “pure” soul will, under ANY circumstance, not succumb to darkness. Reincarnating those with the pure soul then makes the world a “better” place. Human intervention in this process crumbles the credibility, as then the process of judgement becomes swayed by human standards and emotions (as shown in this episode), and the process becomes random (I guess that’s what Onna is testing?). Like in many cases, the lesser of two evils is still evil. It is very cruel for humans, but that’s just how it is. One assumption of this perspective, though, is that the one who oversees these judgements is also the one who/that “created” the DP universe, and that “creator” wants to make the world full of “pure” souls.
But I guess one pitfall of this perspective is that why then did this “creator” make a world with “impure” souls? Is it the limit of his/her/its ability? If so, then I guess the judgement process could have its flaws too? Or is it like a self-correcting measure? Or is the “creator” a separate entity from the “judge”? ….
(Gah, I have to stop.)
This show really allows me to exercise my brain for things I would never think of (or things I don’t actually have to make a fuss about). But I guess it makes us reflect the way we tend to judge others. Coupled with the amazing art and animation, editing, and story– I really love it.
Wow, the underlying case here would have worked nicely in pretty much any crime series out there. Trying to figure out the bloody details of who killed who and what happened to the rapist wasn’t easy. I was certain it was the same person who did both the wife and the sister, but that proved to be wrong. With the reveal that two people were present for poor Sae’s rape, I thought the guy Tatsumi was shown killing was the other culprit, but no.
Did not see Tatsumi being all lunatic serial killing avenger coming. He’s like straight out of Criminal Minds.
Its pretty insane to see how two of them were so ordinary and nice without those revenge, vengeance, hatred memories. This also shows how much can one single tragedy change a person completely, human mind are just so fragile.
Ep 10:
If you search for an Headline
The meaning of Life
Looks like Ep 11, we get finally the background of the Nameless Girl, and ep 10 revealed her True name. She remembered it
and even Decim come into the Focus and the Persons behind him… Ep 11 can be intense and the “true” Finale episode, you should watch it
Since this has been discussed to death anyway, catching up on this. Here’s what I think they deserved.
Detective guy: Void
Other guy: Resurrection
Other guy wasn’t evil, he was consumed by despair over what happened to his sister and made a terrible choice. And knowing that Detective Guy watched it happen, he snapped.