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Going right in, things just keep rollin’ on forward for Naruto this chapter. We get Tobi unleashing his ultimate trump card in the ten tails… the reveal that he only needs a piece of each of the tailed beasts’ chakra in order to do so… insight into Tobi’s ultimate objective of using the power to unleash a genjutsu on the whole planet in order to ensure a peaceful world… as well as the answer to what the source of chakra in the world was. And well, even though not much really happens in terms of actual events, this chapter was certainly a good one. Not only does it answer quite a few questions we’ve had for a little bit, but also sets up nicely what probably is one of the last major fights of the series.
But in the end though, as much of a final battle as this seems to be between Naruto and Tobi, I reckon there’s probably no way Naruto and the rest of them can win at the moment. If anything, even if they do succeed, it feels like it’ll only be a temporary setback that just forces Tobi to retreat momentarily. As such, it really surprised me when this chapter came along and focused purely on Tobi and Naruto, rather than continuing the Sasuke and/or Madara side of things. I always figured both of em’ will eventually tie in with the Tobi fight… but it seems like Kishimoto’s probably going the split route, where he’ll occasionally alternate back and forth between everything. It makes a lot of sense, but I do wonder if the Tobi fight wasn’t something that would be best left to the end, where it can go on without interruption. Of course, I might be a bit off with my predictions here, but just wording out a little bit of the worries I had over this development.
Moving on, the thing that really stuck with me was the whole plan by Tobi to use the ten-tailed beast to perform an unbreakable genjutsu on the entire world, so he could then form a perfectly peaceful “dream” world of sorts. I remember hearing parts of this plan before, but it’s something that didn’t really hit me much until this point in time, now that we’re so close to the end. And well, what makes it so interesting? Aside from the fact it’s a kind of thing I’ve seen used in various games and anime, it’s interesting because of the philosophical debate this triggers. I mean, in a way, you can argue that his plan isn’t really a “bad” one at all. A world with eternal peace, where everyone lives, no one dies, and even the people that passed away already could theoretically be bought back… it’s something that just makes me step back for a bit and wonder. Sure, it’s a dream world and it’s not real… but if you didn’t know it wasn’t, what difference would it make? The experiences you get would still be as if they were real… and it’d be a kind of eternally recurring paradise. But at the same time, there’s the flip side of the equation. What’s the point of living if you’re in a world with no freewill? Isn’t it just running away from life hiding in an illusion? Aren’t the point of dreams to have them so you have something to aim for? To live for?
Really, it’s just a very interesting philosophical debate. And in that context, it’s hard to really classify Tobi as a real “bad guy” in a way. Sure, his methods haven’t been the greatest, but his ultimate goal is theoretically one that has a positive result. I guess the question comes down to whether or not you’re one who subscribes to the theory that the ends are more important than the means, or the opposing theory that there’s no meaning to the end if the way you use to get there causes you to sacrifice too much. Personally, I’m not actually sure what I’d choose at this point, but I’d say I’m still more of a believer in Naruto’s ideals, rather than Tobi’s. How about you guys?
Anyway, enough about the philosophical aspects of it all. If there’s one other thing I really wanted to mention was the reveal of the ten-tails as “The Progenitor”. I couldn’t help but pretty much compare it to being “God” in the Naruto universe for the most part, as it definitely felt to me that this chapter was certainly alluding to that. And it’s just a tad bit awe-inspiring, seeing the descriptions of its powers… Just makes me appreciate the awesomeness that was Rikudou Sennin more, for having defeated it in the first place. Moving on a bit, I also liked how the whole story involving Kinkaku and Ginkaku ended up being tied together into all of this, and it’s a nice example demonstrating how Kishimoto planned a lot of the things he wanted to do in advance.
All in all, a pretty good chapter to continue the recent trend of em’. Looking forward to how this sorts itself out.
And more hints that Tobi is someone Kakashi used to know…
lol yeah exactly, for me that was the biggest reveal this chapter.
That Tobi’s real identity is someone who knew both Kakashi and Guy.
Although to be honest, with the previous reveal that Tobi is in fact NOT Uchiha Madara, I think the whole significance of Tobi’s real identity has become redundant. I think Tobi’s real identity is someone we either haven’t seen before or someone really unimportant or both.
Think of it like the identity of the ‘second’ Friend from 20th Century Boys. His identity was unimportant, it was just the fact he was not the ‘first’ Friend coming back to life, which was the big surprise.
Or it could be that Tobi is actually Uchiha Obito.
I’m also, once again, starting to believe it may be Obito. But if it is, I have no idea what’s the reasoning behind his actions. I read Kakashi Gaiden and I would’ve never figured Obito as the ‘psycho’-type.
I don’t think it can be Obito as Tobi was around when Naruto was born making Kakashi much younger. He looked like an adult when he confronted the 4th which Tobi would not be at that time. If I remember everything correctly.
Actually, the forums are being flooded by the tobi-is-obito supporters. For me, his real identity has no great bearing now the plot since he was revealed as someone other than Madara.
Obito is not Tobi…. -____-
It wouldn’t make sense. He has no motive whatsoever. Obito is more like Naruto if anything.
I can’t see him wanting to taking over the ninja world and what not.
If he is I swear I’m dropping this manga…. T_T
I bet that is this “one” that gave him his Eye, in his Mission.. Yes.. it is impossible that he is alive. But you know. Tobi should be dead long time ago.. So some “better this Medium then nothing” solution?
..and we all saw Tobi Head from behind. So at last we know his Hair style… 🙂
Tobi: But you you didn’t have to cut me off!
lol wish I was good at photo shop right now.
almost everyone has good intentions for everything they do.
Hitler intended on making a better world (in his mind).
The Illuminati that controls America certainly thinks we are better off uneducated consumer puppets.
Even danzo thought what he was doing was great for kohana, despite the fact that he is the.. root (PUN teehee) of almost all the shit thats going down as of late.
what was up with tobi calling out kakashi like he knew him personally?
The problem with Tobi’s plan is Human’s won’t evolve as a society in a natural way. What he wants is an illusion of perfection. “If you see budha kill him” comes to mind. Perfection can never be attained, but the effort in reaching it is what counts. Plus what’s the point of philosophy if everyone has the same view point.
Naruto may be an idiot, but he got it right.
Would be hilarious if when Tobi summoned the Jubi, the Jubi went “fuck this,” and bitch slapped Tobi to the side. And then Sasuke comes along and is like, “WOAH! I want dis, Kishi-sama,” and Kishi blushes to himself and spoils Sasuke some more with mary-sue no-jutsu. Funny thing, Kishi still wouldn’t as big a troll as Kubo 😛
I actually would not be surprised if that happened.
Tobi and especially Madara may be quite powerful, far beyond that of any “normal” shinobi, but I highly doubt they’re still anywhere near as powerful as the Rikudo Sennin himself was and he could only seal the Jubi away within himself, and even then, it was only its chakra while he had to seal its physical body within the moon. And even THEN, the Jubi’s chakra would’ve immediately been released once he died, no doubt returning to its body, allowing it to run amok again, leading to him to going through the trouble of splitting its chakra into the 9 biju as a further precaution.
Even being incomplete, the Jubi would still have power equivalent to 28 tails worth of biju chakra (add in the portion of Hachibi and Kyubi, with their higher-ladder power, and that could make it 29 or even 30+ tails). ONE Biju of simply 1 to 9 is tricky enough to seal inside anyone (and Kyubi alone required the Shiki Fujin AND splitting his Yin and Yang chakra)), but ALL of that? Eh, I doubt it for anyone of this age.
Tobi’s real identity is actually…. Kiritsugu Emiya. Who woulda known.
Oh. My. God. Everything makes so much more sense now :O
“And verily doth my cup runneth over.” Let us Zero in on the Fate of the ninja world in this Fourth Holy Tail War.
At the end of the arc, when Tobi finally activates the Infinite Tsukuyomi, he will realize the horror of his actions. As such, he will take control of the Edo Tensei and command the real Madara the following.
Tobi: Madara, use your Ultimate Susanoo to destroy the Ten-Tails.
Madara: Wha- What are you doing?!
Tobi: I use the Edo Tensei to command again. Madara, destroy the Ten-Tails!
Madara: NOOOOOOOOO!!!
Why did Tobi not go into hiding if kinkaku and his brother were all that was require for his master plan to work. Why risk looking for naruto and killer bee.
because that’s an alternative. without kyuubi and hachibi, the juubi will be imperfect. Having only a part of their chakra it is still possible to summon him, however, with some greater lossess in juubi’s power. Tobi might’ve not known that Kabuto was in possession of those brothers, therefore he started the war. Once he acquired them, he still wanted to bring the juubi to perfection, however he failed, so he rushed with his plan. As he dooesn’t need juubi for its power, but rather to cast tsukiyomi on the moon, it’s ok for him to summon imperfect juubi.
You see, what had happen was… Kiritsugu, like every other villian, got greedy and underestimated Naruto. Seeing the folly in his plan, went for plan B.
Yeah nice Episode, altough it was clear what Tobi planned with Ginkaku and Ginkaku from the point he grabbed that vessels. I also hoped to see more of Sasukes Plan too, but hey ok it was interesting eitherway.
About Tobi: Uh I don´t know … for me Tobi and Obito are worlds apart in character. Where would it make sense? Obito was for all that we got to know a very caring warmhearted Boy maybe a little goofy a lot like the naruto character … how would a kid like him turn out to be Tobi?!? I dont see a sense in that. PS: Tobi should be somewhat older than Obito … Tobi was already fighting the 4th at a Time were Obito wouldve been no older than 13 or 14.
Maybe Obito had an older brother who wanted to revenge his death lol ;D neeee just kidding ^^
People can change quite drastically in very short periods of time, depending on various situations.
After all, look at how much different Nagato and Konan became after all these years since training with Jiraiya, where they actually seemed like nice kids at the time. But because of events like Hanzo’s and Danzo’s conspiracy to get rid of their group and Yahiko’s death, it really scarred them emotionally. Couple that with events that already took place before (like Nagato witnessing his parents’ death at the hands of Konoha shinobi, awakening the Rinnegan) and it’s not really surprising.
If Tobi were to hypothetically be Obito, then one could believe that, perhaps he didn’t die immediately under all the rubble from the cave-in, thus leaving him to stew in his feelings while in such, no doubt, tremendous pain and suffering until his own death ala Yuuko of Tasogare Otome x Amnesia. This would most likely end up brewing fear within him (as people fear death, of course), leading to irrational thoughts to start taking place like blaming his situation on Kakashi’s own attitude about rules and initially not wanting to rescue Rin or perhaps even on Rin herself for being “too weak” to do anything about it herself. This could end up leading to him looking at more beyond the team and at the very state of the world itself (they were in the middle of the 3rd Great Shinobi War after all) and wanting to do something about it.
If only he had Imagine Breaker. He could’ve ended this jazz like 300 chapters ago.
I’m a believer of Naruto’s ideals too and if he can make them a reality in the ninja world then the ninja world is better off without the need of Tobi’s dream world.
The Kakashi picture was a good choice for the post.
Seems like Tobi came along for a fight not expecting Naruto and Killer Bee to put up a challenge and in fact they really couldn’t stand up to him until Kakashi and Guy joined the fight which caused the plan to go wrong. When you think about it activating Gedo Mazo without the full power of the last two tailed beasts isn’t being totally desperate since the guy only needs enough chakra to be able to cast an infinite genjutsu not enough chakra to split the world asunder. As for his real identity, I’m still going by the idea that Tobi is a left over remnant of Uchiha Madara because of the fact that on more than one occasion he said he was ‘incomplete’.
DBZ events liken this to the eight Dragon Ballz that summon the Dragon ? So u can make a Wish with the JuBi and all your dreams will come true !
There is still so much going on before this awesome story ends. My main question right now is.. What of Yamato. is he still alive? being one of the only wood users would he be a key factor to helping Naruto in his final battle?
I don’t want Yamato to die or at least not die because of Kabuto’s bs.
Zeph,
That philosophical argument isn’t new in anime, but it’s still fun to talk about. For me, it began with ARIA and its consideration between a real Venice and a fake Venice, and its conclusion that if the feelings behind the fake are genuine, the fake is an acceptable alternative to the real one.
It was in Ghost in the Shell, where false memories can be created and implanted.
Then it spread to Nisemonogatari, with the whole real vs fake, impostor vs original debate that is excellently summed up in verdant’s post. (tl;dr, a fake is good if it’s indistinguishable from the real thing.)
We saw it a couple seasons ago with Mirai Nikki’s last couple episodes with the false reality Yuno creates for Yuki, and how it resolved with Yuki’s love for Yuno overcoming everything.
And we see it all over movies and and films, with the most recent being Inception, but other notables include Shutter Island, the Matrix, the Truman Show, and Total Recall (the 2012 remake of the 1990 film).
While I don’t think Naruto necessarily goes up to the same level of intelligence as the others do, a liberal application of philosophy can bring an interesting debate to the stagnating-yet-hopeful end to this series, and for that I am glad Zephyr talked about it this week.
Anyone else thinking that Ten-Tails not being perfect will be what kills it in the end?
Also, I’m a little disappointed that Bee didn’t die and/or get the 8 tails taken from him. It’s not that I don’t like the character, I just think it would have been the perfect WHAM moment after everyone in the show and audience has gotten so emotionally invested in him.
Plus the fact that SOMEONE on the good guy’s side needs to die before this war is over. And by that I mean someone with an actual name and who wasn’t already dead before it started.
Really agree on everything you said Da5id. Bee and/or 8-tails would be the perfect emotional sacrifice, even though Kishi tends to kill older, sensei-attitude characters.
I was surprised Kishi spent almost all this chapter giving us a rather obvious explanation of how the 10-tails was revived. Was anyone surprised, guys?
Aside from that, I’m just glad there’ll be a final fight between Tobi vs. Naruto and pals before the 10-tails is revived. I’ve been dying to see one since oh so long ^^
It’s understandable and, in ways, Tobi IS right; as long as mankind has its individuality, there will always be many differences between people and with those differences, there will always be a chance of conflict, which can easily lead to new war. That’s what makes “true peace” in such a world seem like such a far-off, foolish, and naive ideal to most. Lucrezia Noin from Gundam Wing (in Endless Waltz) said it quite well, “It’s a lot easier to obtain the peace than it is to maintain it.” One wrong action from even just one person and that peace can easily be torn asunder.
But at the same time, let’s not forget that Tobi’s also excluding himself from the effects, so with what he’s doing, it’s essentially not much different than, as mentioned at the Kage meeting (Onoki might’ve mentioned it, I forget at the moment), than simple world domination and taking control for himself as a god.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Tobi died without his identity being revealed. It would be a ballsy move on Kishimoto’s part, but it also serves to reinforce Tobi’s idea of non-identity/unified identity as perfection. If he is someone significant, it almost flies in the face of his philosophy.
That said, Tobi=Izuna is still something I can get behind. Izuna is the ultimate discarded, unimportant character (getting your eyes ripped out and being totally forgotten might motivate someone to bring the world down to his level with a plan like this).
I can totally see Tobi as Izuna .. specially seeing how when Itachi claimed Izuna’s eyes were taken aganist his will Tobi claimed that Izuna gave them willingly .. how the heck would he know if he wasn’t there .. and in that case since he isn’t Madara it is very logical to think he is really Izuna.
There are the problems of where did he get that eye he had during most of the series and whether he really died or not .. and if he died for real .. who resurrected him and gave him that eye ?
I also noticed that during the battle with Minato .. when Tobi got his with Minato’s attack his arm fell off as if it was decaying .. since when Rasengen has an effect like that (maybe when it got mixed with air element .. but only Naruto did that) .. it seemed almost as if he was already a revived corpse at that point in the story.
Indeed, the fight between Tobi and Naruto will be a great one, especially with the Jubi unleashed to wreck havoc among the ninja world. However, I seriously thought Tobi would come up with a better goal, and that the Moon-eye Plan would be just a cover up. As far as I am concerned his plan may rise a philosophical debate, as Zehyr said, but it has a serious flaw. Unlike the movie Matrix, once Tobi sets up the worldwide Tsukuyomi, people will end up dying anyway because they will all be in a genjutsu, thus they will not eat or drink, meaning death in about a week or so. Plus Tobi himself would stand alone in the world, while everyone is in the illussion, kind of a lame and boring future for him don’t you think?
remove their individuality..get rid of their AT Fields…mankind becomes one..
Kinda out of topic but I just noticed something was wrong on page 20.
And it was Kakashi’s bandana…
Tobi is the freaking Anti-Spiral from Gurren Lagann and he will succeed in his agenda. Most likely Naruto will break the world genjutsu along with sasuke and defeat tobi. This will lead to their showdown as Sasuke will still want to destroy Konoha and the ten tails power will be mighty tempting.
Ghost Zephyr: Father wanted yesterday, Brother wanted today but what I want is tomorrow.
The most interesting part of this chapter was when Kurama switched with Naruto. I had goosebumps all over!
I had this strange idea inside my mind for a long time now….
What if Tobi… is Sasuke from the future omfgwtf111?! Seen some crazy jutsu so far, so time leap jutsu would be a cake? 😉
This is the exact same concept of the Human Instrumentality Program in Evangelion, where minds become one and barriers are broken down, The only difference is that Tobi’s version only affects the mind while Evangelion’s version fuses the body and spirit as well…
Tobi is Kakashi childhood teammate the one that gave him his sharingan!!!! Positive!!!!
To be frank, we have no idea who Tobi is, but if he is Obito then I am wondering if that how he sounds familiar with Kakashi.
Anyway, if it is Obito then it is possible that the reason why Tobi is doing this is because a certain girl died. Perhaps under the hands of Danzo or possibly the Uchiha to keep her mouth shut.
Tobi is Kakashi’s grandfather.
Seeing from all the hints. It is more likely Tobi is either Shisui or Madara’s brother,Izuna, but of course Kishimoto can always bring out an unknown character that has yet to be revealed. Though I highly doubt that. We know a few things about Tobi. He’s old.(From sasuke’s reaction and a partial reveal in the manga.) He’s definitely a powerful Uchiha Clan member( Shisui, Itachi, Madara, Izuna and Sasuke are the only known people in Uchiha to show great ability and potential.) The last thing that really makes me think its Izuna is how he comments about his ability not being as powerful and the style of fighting that he applies as compared to Itachi, Sasuke or Madara. He has very potent abilities but he often refrains from casting anything unnecessary if possible. It is very similar to orochimaru where there is a limitation as he switches to less able bodies but Tobi just uses bodies from Zetsu. This seems to suggest Tobi meant he had the ability but his body limitations and the quality of the sharingan he had was not as good.
We all know from (How was the name again from this Snake Guy?) that he can use an “Host” with his Mind. Thats why he want Sasuske’s Body. So he can transfer his Mind into the Body and be “immortal”… What if, if (the Snake Guy) has this Ninjutsu copied from “Tobi”. And Tobi is the original user of this Skill? So many possibilities…
Remember the Scene, where he reveals his Host Face under his Skin to the “Hokage”? Well the battle at the “beginning”. Narutos old Hokage, after the Open Fights .. behind was a female face or so i remember…
“The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.” – Roy Mustang
I bet this can some up the epilogue of the naruto series right there.
I can totally see Tobi as Izuna .. specially seeing how when Itachi claimed Izuna’s eyes were taken aganist his will Tobi claimed that Izuna gave them willingly .. how the heck would he know if he wasn’t there .. and in that case since he isn’t Madara it is very logical to think he is really Izuna.
There are the problems of where did he get that eye he had during most of the series and whether he really died or not .. and if he died for real .. who resurrected him and gave him that eye ?
I also noticed that during the battle with Minato .. when Tobi got his with Minato’s attack his arm fell off as if it was decaying .. since when Rasengen has an effect like that (maybe when it got mixed with air element .. but only Naruto did that) .. it seemed almost as if he was already a revived corpse at that point in the story .. not to mention .. if his arm fell off in that battle .. how did he get it back later on unless he had someone give him a new body or something similar !!?
Flashback Tobi was the real Madara. Current Tobi is Obito. Somehow, the mask was passed on. I’m calling it now.