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This week on Naruto, it’s all about filling in the gaps as we witness Obito’s gradual acceptance of Madara’s philosophy (and goals) and the events leading to his affiliation with Nagato.
And to say the least, while it ain’t quite the greatest or most surprising thing… it the very least is quite understandable why Obito decided to participate with Madara and his Moon’s Eye plan. I mean, after witnessing what he did, the concept of a dream world where the dead would still be living, where wars don’t exist, and there’s nothing but peace… just becomes that much more enticing. And it really makes you wonder. I mentioned this a little while back, but I’d just like to reiterate how I like philosophical conundrums such as this. On one hand, not subscribing to it ensures that you maintain your free will and do what you want with your own power. On the other hand, if everyone’s in an illusion and don’t realize that they’re in one… then the illusion becomes the truth and you’d wonder if anyone would have qualms about it if they never knew it was an illusion in the first place…
Anyway, while I would like to go into a whole philosophical thing, there’s just not enough time in the world for this kind of thing, so I’ll just leave it at that as some food for thought. In the meanwhile, more revelations galore to discuss! For one, we see that the black Zetsu was formed from Madara himself and that the white Zetsu are pretty much Hashirama clones. We also see that the Rinnegan requires both Senju and Uchiha DNA, as well as control of the Gedo Mazou. Combine all of these and the new details about the Moon’s Eye plan, as well as Obito adoption of Madara Uchiha as his identity, and well, we’re finally at a point where we’re pretty much fully informed about how everything’s worked out up until the present.
And what can I say? We asked for explanations detailing everything relating to Obito and how he survived to this point, and I dare say we received them. Granted, they weren’t the most amazing of reveals in terms of how it happened, and there were some events that were a bit far-fetched in terms of the probability of them happening, but they’re been ultimately rather satisfactory explanations for the most part. Furthermore, they haven’t been overly dramatic, nor involved any kind of “ret-con” or stretching of facts either. Sure, there’s some questions left regarding Kakashi and Rin and some confirmation needed for stuff like the Minato fight, but for now, it looks like Kishimoto’s managed quite nicely considering the pressure he was under to deliver in terms of Obito explanations, and that’s quite something if I do say so myself. And if my gut feeling is anything to trust, I reckon we’ll be getting the answers to many of the other questions we have soon too, potentially from some Kakashi flashbacks following Obito’s. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see how things work out from here.
So why can’t Obito use ninjutsu, only his space/time abilities?
he can use ninjutsu, he created that barrier around the statue for example. Thing is his space/time abilities are what he’s best at and they are more haxxed than anything else he has in his arsenal.
The real question is why didn’t obito just have nagato revive rin.
He doesn’t want to revive her in the current world which he thinks is trash.
Here’s a good one… What about if they are in all in a genjutsu from the beginning?
Who said the six paths havent already done it already? Matrix anyone?
Oh Obito you poor emo kid. You can’t blame him though. He had no other choice at that point.
Because he’s an Uchiha? :3
Then being emo is his destiny.
He had plenty of choices. The story just did not let him be smart enough to choose them.
Woot! I was essentially right about Zetsu being a Senju/Uchiha mixture, lol.
There’s still a possibility of a retcon in terms of Kakashi’s Mangekyo though, like when he realized he had it and all, because if it’s anytime before Part 1, then that would beg the question on why he didn’t use it at certain times.
In terms of the philosophy, as it was mentioned all over, the whole Eternal Tsukuyomi is really just a false version of “true” peace. It could also be seen as an (unknown) dictatorship considering Madara (or whoever is the one who casts it) would be the one who controls, literally, every little aspect of it.
And one still has to wonder if Madara himself has some ulterior motive because we all saw just how power hungry he was all the way back to the Clan Wars (being the only one to be AGAINST allying with the Senju and such) all the way to his “end” fighting Hashirama. His sudden wanting for “peace” just feels suspicious.
… Ok, I’m willing to give Kishimoto the benefit of the doubt. No one could denied that this had been a wild swerve but nevertheless I’m willing to trust him. I admit that this chapter was rather touching seeing how Obito reacted to Rin’s death and everything. I can understand how he could be drove to do anything just to get Rin back.
That said, I am rather uncomfortable of the fact that all of this revelations only makes sense provided Madara becoming something close to omniscience – I mean for him to plan and do what we think he did is a bit of a stretch and is a tad unrealistic. And even if he did know and plan everything, Madara’s method and reasoning lacks logic and coherence. I mean for a ninja of his caliber I can say with certainty that he could come out with a better plan with better results – the fact that he actually didn’t lead me to the conclusion that this whole scenario was constructed by Kishimoto without him giving the necessary forethought. I mean the whole thing is a mess – it lacks rhythm and reason. While I hope that Kishimoto could pull this off – the logical side of me said something like “Is he biting of more than he could chew?”
TQ
I think you mean to say that it gives full control of the Mazou, as Madara said that Obito can still control it even without awakening the Rinnegan but not fully.
A flashback inside a flashback?
flashbackception!
wait man I don’t agree with people now comparing Obito to Sasuke, while the background is close let’s look at it like this:
1. Sasuke loses everything, first goes like: I’m gonna kill Itachi for doing this! Then gets the poor guy killed, realizes he got the wrong guy killed then swears to annihilate EVERYTHING Itachi tried to protect by sacrificing his entire existence…basically Sasuke is on a path of total destruction without a single care of what will happen after everything burns to the ground.<<<now that's emo
2. Obito loses the girl he loved, and finds that the very friend he gave his eye to so that he could protect the girl is the one who ended up killing her. What does he do? He doesn't go on a path of total destruction, he agrees that humans are just too foolish to find real peace. He devises a plan to create a literal dream world where the ugliness he saw can never exist, so that no one will have to die meaninglessly. While the methods he resorted to are questionable at least his heart was in the right place. Obito is seeking peace like Naruto not total destruction of everyone he hates it's just that his idea of peace is twisted because he has lost faith in humanity.
Nicely put, but i don’t think Sasuke is still hellbent on destroying everything Itachi died protecting .. the way he reincarnated Orochimaru because he is looking for answers and the way he acted back then after defeating Kabuto makes it seem like his 2nd encounter with his undead-brother changed his heart.
That’s absolutely right, the way things are being demonstrated in this whole story is that good people become affected by a heavy tragedy in their lives and are tempted to join the dark side for the purpose of eradicating the pain and sorrows that they have suffered by resorting to cause more pain and death for their own selfish reasons to accomplish a goal that is contrary to the mainstream ideals of the majority.
Nagato, Obito and Sasuke are very much alike in this aspect however, they aren’t the only ones who have lost loved ones because Naruto,
Kakashi, Iruka, in fact the list goes on if you watch the entire series hitherto, and the part they have taken will lead to even more pain and
deaths. I don’t think the former trio intended to join the path they have taken and neither do I think that they can’t be persuaded to stop
and reconsider their motives. I would love to see Kakashi change Obito’s heart just like Naruto is determined to change Sasuke’s heart.
Actually, most of the “revelations” regarding the Gedo Mazou and Madara having both the Uchiha and Senju DNA were already explained by Tobi to Konan. Including the Bijuu. Also white Zetsu being Hashirama’s clone was already mentioned before the war to Kabuto. That’s why he went for Yamato to improve the white Zetsu when he failed in capturing Naruto. The Black Zetsu being part of Madara was unexpected though, but it was already speculated.
Summary: Obito is an idiot.
And the Uchiha are emo.
Also, GRADUAL acceptance?! More like the moment he saw one person die, he suddenly judged the entire world based on that one death. Sasuke saw his entire clan murdered, and eventually his brother, before he became as messed up as he was/is. Nagato saw his friends, family, comrades and thousands of other deaths before he completely went over the edge as Pain.
Obito saw his childhood crush die and suddenly decided the whole world was at fault. He seemed not to care about Kakashi, but did he not care about what happened to his parents? His other classmates? His teacher (who he would later kill)? Obito’s behavior doesn’t make him sympathetic or dark, it makes him a CHILD.
It’s gradual because Madara was already trying to get Obito to join him in his plan not too long after he was rescued and was undergoing “rehab”. This put the seed into Obito to begin with.
You’ll note he dismissed it as some crazy nonsense at first, but after the events regarding Rin and Kakashi, and especially because of the realization of his new found abilities and Madara’s abilities, he then decided to accept his philosophy.
At that point, all the “nonsense” Madara spouted to him for who knows how long as a kind of gradual propoganda, suddenly “made a lot of sense”. And from there, it also explains him not caring about anyone else, because suddenly, there’s an option where no matter who dies and what happens in this world, he could “bring them back” in the illusionary world. Hence all events and people he used to know no longer mattered.
So yes, I stand by gradual because he was gradually being drawn into the plan from the start with the propaganda, then lured in for real with the perfect chain of events. It’s pretty much like indoctrination from Mass Effect for a lack of a better reference.
Well, news flash .. by today’s standards he is a CHILD … and don’t forget that he has been through the whole Ninja World War and probably saw countless deaths .. and ended up almost dying himself and crushed to death trying to save his friends from certain death .. then he sees one of them killing the other (and the one dying is his love interest as well) .. that’s just way too much for any one his age to handle .. and don’t forget Madara’s influence and manipulation .. he is pretty charismatic and he saved Obito’s life so it’s natural Obito would succumb to his influence after all this he has been through.
It’s so easy to call him and idiot and emo while sitting on your computer on a comfy sofa .. but if you went through the same shitty experiences he went through i’m sure your opinion will be completely different .. anyone’s views and psyche are altered and damaged by war and death of beloved people (specially if those people you care about kill each other in-font of you) and that applied for adults so imagine that impact on come who isn’t mature enough to cope with this much shit.
Except that if one death without context was enough to make him kill an huge amount of people and brainwash him, he didn’t have that much of brain to wash. Maybe if he’d seen the death of the other Uchiha afterwards and/or how Hanzo betrayed Nagato and his group to cement that fact in, then it’d be reasonable, and seeing multiple moments of human cruelty and pointless death would eventually drive him to strive for the Infinite Tsukiyomi, like having Madara as a Palpatine to his Anakin, THEN it would be believable to me. Or maybe I’d understand how much Rin meant to him IF THEY HAD MENTIONED HER MORE THAN ONCE SINCE KAKASHI GAIDEN CAME OUT.
HunterWulf, if they can make other “children” be more mature after dealing with far worse in this story, then Obito acting this way has no excuse, especially if we’re supposed to believe he’s the main antagonist. And if seeing countless people die in the war had that much impact on his psyche, the flashback sure as hell didn’t make it seem that way. It made it seem like the only thing he had cared about the entire time was Rin and Kakashi. Saying that implied more is just speculation and nothing more. He didn’t have second thought about anyone else but them, which was flawed thinking from the start. As for Madara’s charisma, I’m just not seeing it, especially since the only people we’ve seen the aged Madara seen here manipulate were mindless clones he created and an easily manipulated teenager.
And don’t give me that “well you’re too privileged to understand” BULLSHIT. For one, you don’t know me, nor the furniture I may or may not own, and just because I’ve never been to war doesn’t mean I can’t spot shitty writing.
@Da5id
Whatever, even if we assume that somehow the war had no impact whatsoever on Obito’s psyche (which is IMO ridiculous to assume) just having a near-death experience and coming back from it to see his best friends killing each other is more than enough to break an adult not a child who had (clearly) quite a naive/innocent outlook on life.
And don’t give me the “you don’t know me” BULLSHIT, the trauma of war and seeing beloved people you care about killed in-front of you applies to everyone regardless of who they are .. so please don’t try to act like the BIG TOUGH BOY XD
If you think you would be that impressionable, that’s fine, but don’t project that onto everyone else. Deaths of loved ones do effect everyone, but they effect them DIFFERENTLY FROM CASE TO CASE. And somehow I don’t see a show about magical ninjas and chakra beasts (that’s already known for its huge leaps in logic) as the best representation of how loss effects people in the real world. Now can we quit with the ad hominems and get back to talking about the story?
@Da5id: Tl;Dr Get more negs :).
I think one big example of how deaths of others affect people in different ways is comparing ones like Obito or Nagato to Itachi and Naruto.
Itachi also saw countless deaths from the 3rd Shinobi War as well, and killed who knows how many members of the Uchiha Clan, including his own parents, any other friends he may have had, and an unnamed lover. Yet, despite ALL of that, he STILL remained steadfast on his belief in pacifism and peace all the way to his own death from his illness.
Naruto may not have had a family or anything, but he did end up experiencing real loss with Hiruzen’s, Jiraiya’s and, temporarily anyway, Kakashi’s deaths (at Nagato’s hands no less for the latter 2, unsure if he knew of Shizune’s either); three of the closest people Naruto had, but he (even if it’s because he’s the main character and all) rose above as a better person and didn’t try top seek vengeance on anyone and everyone because of it.
Right, exactly. And what I think is the easiest way to predict Obito’s next course of action in the present story is how Nagato turned out. After being reminded of his teacher through another student, he snapped out of it and sacrificed himself to follow the teachings he let go of.
Unfortunately, that heel face turn was already massively contested before, so seeing it again through a character who has even less reason to do so, AND is the main villain, is just rehashing another ending but watered down. That’s not a good move for a final battle. The only other option is he stays evil because, as seen with Sasuke at the end of Part 1, Uchihas hold a grudge, which will just make him look like a revenge fueled monster and die like one.
These are our two options.
@Da5id
Ok BIG TOUGH BOY, last time i checked the character in Naruto were still human beings .. having magical ninjas and chakra beasts changes nothing about how they react to death and loss of people they care about (as they can easily be swapped with modern day equivalents, i.e … chakra beasts can simply be seen as modern day WMDs) … and don’t tell that you are the type of people who think that becasue it’s a fantasy world that people somehow should have no emotions or act differently from normal humans when faces with the SAME EXACT type of trauma and losses normal people suffer in real-life .. that’ just something retarded to assume.
And i never talked about anything else other than the story, you are the one hellbent on proving you are BIG TOUGH BOY.
Except that WMD’s can’t be reasoned with by being optimistic and talking to them like Tailed Beasts, nor can every situation be talked out of like Naruto does in practically every single arc. If you really think Naruto’s a realistic 1:1 look at what people are like in war, you may want to read something more grounded and realistic. This isn’t Citizen Kane, it’s DBZ with ninjas. That’s not to say it’s a bad story, though this recent development is proving otherwise.
It’s true. You can’t really compare things in Naruto to real life war very effectively.
Like the total comradery being shown between the Shinobi Nations all of a sudden. These were countries who, ever since the Hidden Villages were formed, had intense rivalries with and even hatred of eachother for decades (in the case of Konoha, Iwa, and Kumo especially), yet with how things are now, they pretty much seem to have completely drop[ed and put behind everything that happened between eachother and everyone suddenly being “equal”.
Yes, the world may be at stake, but as real war has shown, even THAT wouldn’t exactly cause such a huge development between allies. Even the Kage Summit showed their relations with each Kage arguing, pointing fingers, and so on.
This is where we can look at WWII again. Even among the Western Allies, there was constant friction and dislike between various commanders who would squabble among themselves, constantly try to outshine the other and whatnot, all looking out for their own interests first (their own and their own respective country), despite the threat of enemy forces. Like Patton really disliked Montgomery and vice-versa, and even among our own forces, MacArthur and Nimitz disliked eachother too.
Stupid Naruto fanboys downvoting any criticism. They can’t accept that Obito is a little emo bitch and that this flashback is horrible.
Madara has unlocked the Rinnegan -Congratulations Feat Achieved- Now you can summon Gedo Mazou
He makes it sound so easy…
This whole Crappy Reality + Freedom VS Fake reality with happiness thing isnt new. A lot of other games/anime/stories has used this already. Like Gundam SeeD Destiny, Ar Tonelico II, Inception and what not.
Anyway, looks like Obito’s whole motivation really is over a girl, which is well, downright silly. What I’m disappointed at is how they still didnt explain anything regarding Rin’s death.
I’m expecting the flash back to end soon and we get back to the present, where Kakashi will actually explain to Obito why he killed her. Obito will then either snap in denial like all emo villains tend to do and attack Kakashi or realize how stupid he was and become a good guy for 20 seconds and gets killed by Madara. My predictions anyway.
Downright silly !!!.. oh .. come on .. i can’t imagine you can come here and say this line so assuredly after you -god forbid- see your best friend killing your girlfriend or wife in-front of you .. there is nothing silly about it.
Believe it or not, not all fictional deaths are tragic just because they are deaths. Stop talking about Obito like he’s a real person and start looking at him like a character in the context of the story.
@Da5id
That’s exactly what i’m doing smart-ass .. death of beloved people is tragic by definition whether it’s fantasy or real-life.. and in order to understand how a character feels in a story you try to put yourself in their shoes .. what happened to RELATING to characters !!!? .. ever heard about that !!!
Oh .. and i don’t take orders from nobody over the internet .. i look at the story the way i please .. so stop jumping around replying to my replies to OTHER PEOPLE becasue it’s freaking annoying … WTH are you so hellbent on proving anyway .. that you are a BIG TOUGH BOY .. honestly nobody gives a damn XD
Okay, fine then. How do you relate to Obito? Did your best friend kill your crush right in front of your eyes?
@Da5id
Well, well, finally getting somewhere .. good question.
Well you see, naturally the answer is no, BUT .. if that happens to me i sure hope you aren’t anywhere near by -or anyone for the matter- because i’m not sure what i’m going to do then .. who knows .. i might try killing the bastard or worse (unlike Obito who surprisingly refrained from killing Kakashi).
You never played a “what if” scenario in your head before, it doesn’t take that much imagination to think what you “might” do if you are in place of someone else .. be it a real person of a fictional one !!?
So, you’re assuming how you might react to a situation, but you really won’t know until it actually happens. I thought I’d be react fine to chemotherapy, but it was actually a really hard time for me to adapt to. Sure, I’ve imagined what-ifs before, and sometimes I act how I thought I would and sometimes I don’t. The reason being that no one can predict the future and even if that prediction happens, chances are it’s not going to be that simple. The situation is going to have more to it than I see at first, and even if I think I understand enough at first glance, chances are that I won’t.
Saying you can imagine yourself in the characters position does not make that character relatable, especially not in a specific situation such as this. If you’ve ever had to seriously think about what you would do if your best friend killed your crush, you either need new friends, a new crush, or a therapist.
Truly relating to a character is really if you had their situation happen to you before or having it currently happen to you. Otherwise, the closest you can get really is just agreeing with the character’s point of view on things or the decisions they make because you believe them.
I think that Kakashi is the one to convince Obito to have a change of heart just like Naruto is the one to convince Sasuke to have a change of heart. As for Madara and Orochimaru, since Hashirama and Jiraya are dead those two are on their own they are both lost causes and damaged property.
Is it only me who noticed that Kakashi fell face-down in Chapter 605, yet he’s lying face-up in 606?
Makes me wonder if Obito would change his mind in the last minute like Negato because he sure doesn’t know the full details of what Kakashi did that day (Or the importance of the rain ninjas wanting Rin’s body). I’m sure Kishimoto will skip that detail for the time being and focus on other matters at hand… even though that is probably one thing I (and a majority of the audience) really want to know …curse you important details that won’t be filled in the moment! XD *shakes fist
Hope the next chapter would move on from the madara/obito story ;-;
Madara: The world needs to be brainwashed for there to be true peace!
Obito: No, you’re crazy!
Madara: Your friend is dead!
Obito: Brainwash the world!
*Present Day*
Obito: Kakashi, you killed Rin!
Kakashi: The reason I did that was *explains*
Obito: My god, I was wrong the entire time! *dies somehow*
I don’t know why people down-voted this. This the most likely outcome if you have been following Naruto up to this point.
Naruto fans can’t accept the truth.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but won’t this guarantee that the entire human race would perish in short order? I mean, just because your mind is stuck in an illusion doesn’t mean your body doesn’t need to eat or drink, and that’s without even going into procreation of the next generation… o_o;;
the way you said it make me thinks of SAO. maybe the dream world that madara will created is Aincrad. XD
Heh, I’m just wondering if there has been anything official that explains what will actually happen to the people over extended period of time under Madara’s plan.
Well, don’t forget that Madara (or whoever casts the Eternal Taukuyomi) would have total control over EVERY little aspect of things…and also don’t forget that Rin would “come back to life” there and all…so I think the “need” to eat and drink is sort of moot, lol.
But yeah, Madara could simply will it so people NEVER need to eat, drink, or whatever to live or something like that.
Obito’story made me remember Severus Snape’s from the Harry Potter books because everything that they did was for the lost of their only true love, i kind of expecting that Kakashi ask him
“Rin? After all this time?”
“Always”.
………………………….
So Madara got Hashirama’s cells. Could he have gotten them from Orochimaru? Maybe? And thus the ultimate villain will be Orochimaru in the end? Hmmm.
Madara obtained Hashirama’s cells form the battle they had while Orochimaru could have obtained them by digging his grave and exhuming his body and making him his edo tensei puppet . However I wonder how Orochimaru or Kabuto got Madara’s body, Kishi still has some backstory explaining to do.
Actually, they don’t need to the whole body for Edo Tensei. They just need DNA from a person and that person to be dead (with their soul not consumed by the Shinigami) as it simply forces back their soul into an artificial body made from earth and ash with a person used as a sacrifice to act as an anchor for that soul.
So Orochimaru could’ve simply taken a piece of skin or bone or even a drop of blood from Hashirama’s body and left the rest there, then simply cultivated the cells from what he took (he’s a genius after all). Same with Madara (and I’m sure he’d have plenty of opportunities to get blood from fighting Hashirama).
Kabuto would be a bit more tricky considering Madara was still alive, and it was decades since his battle (not even born yet), so where Kabuto would be able to find any good DNA from Madara is questionable.
Just when I thought Obito would have been the few Uchihas that did not go down the lonely road of emo. He does.
Though, his reason to is valid, so him going down the road does make sense. I just wonder how he felt when he threatened Naruto as an infant, fought his teacher and nearly died, basically killed off countless of families and people, mind-rape the Mizukage (the three-tail container) sent hundreds of lives astray, foiled Zabuza’s assassination attempt (he was exiled because he tried to kill him), hunted the tailed-beasts containers and think all he has done would be forgotten or swept away with the Moon Eye Plan.
The question is, what happens when the whole world is under the spell, who is not under it? Do the bodies waste away or will someone watch over them? This plan…irks me.
He probably thinks that any further pain and suffering caused by him is justified as long as he accomplishes his goal of ridding the world of pain and fighting. That’s usually what people like Gendo Ikari, Gilbert Durandel, Charles Vi Britannia, and others have in mind they tried their versions of this plan.
As for what it does to the bodies, my guess is that everyone is put into their own personal heaven until they die of natural causes, sort of like The Matrix, except that whoever dies in reality wouldn’t die in a mind that imagines them in their heaven, and would likely continue till everyone passes on…except for Madara, since he’s an immortal zombie. As for who’s really in control, it would be Madara, since he’s the one whose Sharingan is powerful enough to produce the jutsu, assuming Obito isn’t also able to, though I assume he just wants to set up the illusion, but can’t produce it himself.
Obito might’ve felt something doing all those things, but Kishimoto was trying very hard to make us believe Tobi is Madara. Besides him being one of the few Uchiha mentioned in the story, there were few if any pieces of evidence to suggest him being anyone else. Any hints of remorse from Tobi would’ve immediately introduced a great deal of doubt into the seemingly logical notion and ultimately lessen the surprise of the big fake out to come. Personally, l would’ve liked more (better) hints who Tobi really was throughout the story even it did take away some of the surprise. Not only is it good story writing, but it assures us readers that you’re not pulling stuff out of nowhere.
THANK YOU.
I feel a little uneasy on this whole i get the rinnegan, i get to INSTINCTIVELY know gedo mazou and know how to use it. That said, Gurren Lagann reference ftw! Because the moon is never JUST a moon.
That’s no moon… That’s a space station.
Yeah, everyone knows that Piccolo blew up the moon ages ago.
This always happen.
Obito: Kakashi killed Rin! I am not gonna find him and ask him why, I will just fight my way through and grab the dead body and go. Next, I will go back and get brainwash cause I nvr bother about the reason behind the kill, I just believe in what I want to believe in. All in all, I am a idiot.
Obito want to create The Matrix?
Don’t get why people are acting like Obito’s motivations don’t make sense when Love Makes You Evil is one of the most common tropes ever.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LoveMakesYouEvil
Maybe because it’s because it’s a trope older than dirt and if the story didn’t need to rely on it before it shouldn’t have to now?
Honestly, it’s not the reasons that piss me off to no end, it’s the pacing. If they had just spaced this out better, I would have little to no problems by this point.
Bring on the unprovoked dislikes!
because this whole thing don’t need to happen if obito asked nagato to use rinne tensei to revive rin? hell, why didn’t nagato use rinne tensei to revive his loved ones.
This story has been relying on Love Makes You Evil since Sasuke was introduced. In chapter 3. Why didn’t Nagato use Rinne Tensei to revive Obito’s loved ones? Why didn’t Nagato just bring back Yahiko? The desire to bring people back to life wasn’t the point, just the trigger to the realization that the world sucks. Bringing people back to life without changing the world is just playing around with the symptoms (my loved ones got killed), whereas their plan is dealing with the problem (the world sucks).
I meant ROMANTIC love.
Family killed makes you evil = totally legit
Best friend killed makes you evil = totally legit
Life long love dies makes you evil = This writer is a hack
This series is running on this trope.
Gaara killing other because love for himself
Danzo become evil because love for Konoha
Nagato become evil because Yahiko his big brother figure is killed by his own hand because of sadistic choice
Itachi killing his clan because he love Konoha (and Sasuke) more than his own clan
So why is it become problem that Obito become evil because he saw Rin killed by Kakashi.
You’re aware of the difference between romantic (as in love interests) and familial/platonic, yes?
And yes, Nagato’s and Sasuke’s had far more weight, since their turn to evil had far more deaths, and all of those deaths were much better established characters than Rin, because they weren’t just there to make the characters evil. Yahiko was a crucial part of Nagato’s development and the original leader of Akatsuki, and we got to know him as a person before he died from Hanzo’s betrayal, which made it still sad even though we knew it was inevitable. Sasuke and Itachi’s parents showed the culture in the Uchiha clan, as well as what the two were taught and raised by, so even Sasuke’s small achievement of impressing his father had some value before the massacre.
Rin is just…Rin. She’s a Sakura proxy for Obito who only he and Kakashi seem to remember. Other than that, she has no real impact on Obito’s life other than she’s the girl he liked. He doesn’t seem to actually know why Kakashi had to kill her, so whatever reason there was doesn’t have any impact on why he’s turned evil.
So yes:
My brother, who i’ve always felt inferior to, killed my entire clan and left me all alone to fend for myself = legit evil backstory
My family was killed, our teacher abandoned us, our corrupt leader double crossed us and forced my best friend to kill himself, leaving me to carry on our entire group and unable to trust that there would be peace= legit evil backstory
However:
I was taken care of by an old crazy man and my best friend killed my love interest and I didn’t even bother to ask why = NOT a legit evil backstory
It’s not solely because Rin is killed, it’s because Kakashi who killed Rin. Despite in Kakashi gaiden we see that Kakashi changed from a person who stick strictly on rule to person who value nakama over order like his father. He see it as a betrayal over what he promise over him on his death door. He see in the world of ninja nobody can fully trusted thus want to create a dream world where nobody can lie. It’s like Charles from Code Geass who exposed to a betrayal since child thus making contract with V.V to make a world without a lie. This is seen to in Kisame backstory when he slaughter his entire squad so that the enemy cannot take any information. Kisame agree to joint akatsuki because he too want a world without a betrayal or a lie.
Okay, I get that the fact it was Kakashi was a big part of it, but what I don’t get is why Obito didn’t simply wait for Kakashi to wake up so he could explain himself before going completely nuts. When Itachi massacred the entire Uchiha clan, Sasuke (who was much younger than Obito was in this flashback) at least tried to make sense of it by asking Itachi why he did what he did before being knocked out (which we later found out was for a good reason). We all know that it’s going to turn out that Kakashi had a legitimate reason for killing Rin and Obito just overreacted because he couldn’t tell what was going on at the time, and then Obito’s just going to look like an idiot because he didn’t bother to wait around for an explanation. Then he’s either going to ignore the explanation, go berserk and die, OR he’s going to accept the explanation, attack Madara and die. He is officially on the path to a lame death because of how he was shoehorned into the story so forcibly.
And speaking of Kisame, he was an awesome character, but you would think a smart guy like him would realize that hypnotizing people to not fight is not only a lie, but THE BIGGEST LIE. It’s artificial and forced upon them, not something they would naturally do, basically controlling their lives to follow someone else’s design. Kisame was a great ninja, but he was played like a card, much like Obito is being now.
I wonder why Obito didn’t take his eyes back from Kakashi? Maybe he still cares for Kakashi? he could just took it right there…
Perhaps it may prove useful. Don’t forget, Obito somehow “magically” saw Kakashi killing Rin with that eye. So it is clear there is some sort of “link” that allows Obito to spy on Kakashi’s surroundings but not the other way around.
Either way, Kakashi’s use of the Sharingan is poor compared to Obito.
No, he saw it because he was there at the same time.
Is Itachi the only one who didn’t go crazy emo or didn’t want to destroy/ recreate the whole world?! Must be hard being an Uchiha.
u 4got Shisui Uchiha lol
I think Sasuke and Itachi’s parents also count as not being emo since when Itachi was about to kill them, they accepted their faith and in a way, supported his actions despite his betrayal to the Uchiha.(Don’t quote me on that since I’m typing this at night but I wanted to get what I thought out there :P)
Can’t really speak for Mikoto as we don’t really get a whole lot from her, but Fugaku was the one who orchestrated the coup in the first place (with the whole “Uchiha are being ‘oppressed'” bit), so I’d say he counts, lol.
It was really more respect rather than support (considering their Clan was being killed, lol_) that Itachi was following his own path.
Aside from “Obito is emo” and “Obito is not emo” arguments, I wanna come out and say that while I liked how this chapter tied up a lot of loose threads, I somewhat didn’t like the notion that Nagato really did receive his Rinnegan from Madara.
The original notion behind Nagato’s character was that he was the next generational Sage of Six Paths, and how as a character, he misused this power and sort of became the exact opposite of the saviour he had aspired to be. The idea that he had actually inherited it gave that sense of a special inherited “talent” that people expected of him to use for the greater good. The main catch was that despite his efforts, his experience led him to see himself as a failure (by being unable to save Yahiko) thus leading to the misuse of that power. Despite it cleanly tying up a lot of loose threads, removing that aspect in his character formation somewhat left a bad taste in my mouth to what was an already awesome character. =(
/End rant
I would killed a friend who had a friend who killed his other friend because his friend killed his friend.
To be honest, in this bad economy and suicide rate, a “dream world” would be quite refreshing if that would be our 2012 prophecy. Please don’t take me seriously about the 2012 part.
No argument there, sir. No argument there.
The dream world is consistent, unlike the real world which is full of unpredictable turn of events and surprises. Obito Uchiha hates being surprised, so he’ll make the world ‘perfect’, ‘closed and complete’ to his making.
But yes, it does sound like a lovely idea where you can have it always your way in the dream world.
So wait… first they said that Nagato was an Uzumaki… and now they say he’s a Senju? So… next time we are going to be told Naruto is a Senju?
At this point I support Obito more than Naruto…
BTW… is there a chance Rin was a spy and that is why Kakashi killed her? I mean he never mourned HER, only Obito and Minato.
Just as the Hyuuga clan are descendants of the Uchiha, the Uzamaki are descendants of the Senju. Thus they share the same type of abilities.
It was probably the spy thing, or maybe Rin had some sort of hidden jutsu within her because *gasp* she’s part of some clan that’s important to the plot!
Either way, it would just go to show that the entire series’ plot could have been avoided if Obito had simply waited for Kakashi to explain himself.
Its sad that people cant have valid discussion here without a swarm of idiotic fanboy coming in and downvoting everyone’s post nonstop. This is why I always said this vote thing was a bad idea. Too bad RC still wont remove it.
Or, if one is giving a negative vote, they should have to give a valid reason why and then it gets decided whether it’s applied or not.
A lot of negative votes are simply because they see someone criticizing or pointing out flaws for something they like, or they’re just trolls giving negatives to everyone for no reason.
I Just want to know where Sasuke went i think the destination is very important and is tied with the sage of six paths and the two clans of uchiha and senju. Yes that much is obvious but i have a strong feeling that it is also tied within the uzumaki clan. This idea comes from the orochimaru and sasuke stating that they will talk to those who know everything. That can only be a clan or member who have been in the mix since the begining and the uzumaki clan was know for its members to have longevity in life.
HUNCH!!!!
randomly looking through naruto info and found that the eyes of the eldest son of the sage of six paths eyes seem very similar to the symbol used in the uzumaki clan maybe that has meaning as well.
UCHIHA:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110803151102/naruto/images/a/a5/D%C5%8Djutsu_Uchiha_Ancestor.svg
UZUMAKI:http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111229164037/naruto/images/8/89/Uzumaki_Symbol.svg
Rin and Kakashi fell in love, but when they kissed she saw his unmasked face. That’s why Kakashi had to kill her.
Lmao, but still dude.
You know, the more I look into Obito’s flashback, the more I’m reminded of Jason Todd (Red Hood) from Batman.
Agreed. I just…never mind its been said before already, I’m going to sound like a broken record for just mentioning.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
They kill my girlfriend and I am emo, my whole family was killed and I am emo, my village betrayed me and I am an emo, my brother sacrificed himself to save and I am emo, I broke my tootbrush and I an emo! Is that the only word we know now a days? I don’t even know what does that mean?
Also, I think Sasuke going through a new route now. His latest appearance reminded me to Naruto thinking what is his answer against Pain as he said there is something more important than revenge and it involves the clan and village. If he finds his answer, I’m pretty sure he would be Madara’s perfect rival as he shares the same feelings (also I don’t think Naruto’s group can deal with both Madara and Obito in its current condition)
Can’t believe I have been reading this from day one, looking back it has been awhile.
I just think that kishi has sort of lost his clear aim, and all these characters types which are identical and get repeated are more then likely mistakes.
eg, always a Naruto, sasuke and sakura. and the villains are more or less all the same and very badly wrote (turns to the dark side anikin style…cheaply or love made them evil) mainly as his cast is too big.
also am I the only one who thinks naruto has not really changed since day one?
He is still a average ninja but can just go ssj/do a gohan. (compared to kakashis arsenal or neji, hinata etc) I wish they would develop him more. make him more useful.
So many more interesting characters in the series yet kishi forces naruto on us without even trying to make him take some personality or skills from the better characters…. just develop personality :>
Nope, you’re not alone.
And now…an essay…
I have been saying for a long time how Naruto has changed very little outside of rushed/haxed power-ups (in terms of himself personally), or formula-wise with the Anakin-style antagonists. Even Orochimaru was like that. His whole experimenting phase was born in response to Tsunade’s grief over Dan and Nawaki’s deaths, thus he had completely good intentions at first. So far, only Madara himself appears to NOT be like that; always was a power-hungry douche, using deception and manipulation to get what he wants (and if all else fails, fear and an iron fist) thus the most Palpatine-like.
In terms of Naruto himself, it’s made quite clear when you consider how he was at the start of Part 2 (very little change outside of basics and slightly bigger variations of the Rasengan, and more Kurama chakra) up to the present while looking at what transpired in between. Like Naruto NEVER actually completed ANY of the training he starts, whether it be elemental manipulation with his Futon chakra (ended after Kakuzu and the 50% Rasenshuriken which he was forbidden to use because of the backlash it had), Sage Training (ended after Pain because he just “had” to go and face him), or even his latest training with utilizing Kurama’s chakra (ended with him running off to the war like an idiot). Yet, despite not doing so, it’s made to appear he just doesn’t need to actually complete it and is made out to look like he DOES have mastery over it. (Which is made more bogus when you consider time constraints like with Sage Training, yet he’s said to have mastered it far more than Jiraiya, who spent years on it.)
And, tired or not, Naruto and Team 7 were royally owned by Sasuke during their first encounter in Part 2. Even if Naruto was at full power, Sasuke already clearly demonstrates that he has the ability to use the Sharingan to suppress Kurama’s chakra, so Naruto’s biggest trump card (which he could BARELY control 3 tails of and loses it at 4+) was already negated before the battle even started, which would leave him with pretty much nothing else besides mostly what Sasuke has seen before, except maybe a little bigger (Odama Rasengan and such) while Sasuke had an entirely new arsenal of abilities to use along with far better control of his Cursed Seal.
Granted, I DO put quite a bit of blame on Naruto’s teachers for his lack of overall progress, both mentally and as a shinobi. Kakashi hardly taught Naruto anything at all, whether it be about being a shinobi or anything else, aside from tree walking basics (part of that is Jiraiya’s fault during the Chunin Exams by telling Kakashi to focus on Sasuke while he handles Naruto, of which he did nothing except teach him about Summoning). It’s also quite clear that Jiraiya did little for Naruto during the 3 year period in between Parts 1 and 2 aside from basics, and focused almost entirely on Kurama’s chakra as Naruto’s go-to ability. You’d think Jiraiya would remember that Akatsuki is fully comprised of S-class members picked SPECIFICALLY to be able to counter Biju and Jinchuriki with their abilities (of which we had Itachi and Kisame, who were also 2 of Akatsuki’s absolute strongest members, after Naruto, even if Itachi was acting, unknown to us at the time) and that simply unlocking more of Kurama’s chakra would be nowhere near enough to help Naruto fight them.
Jiraiya didn’t even try to continue to get Naruto to see the reality of things and just let him keep living in his idealistic dreamworld, and even (intentionally or not) injected his own into it, which is really what lead to Naruto’s whole bit about “ending the cycle of hatred” with Nagato aside from simply becoming Hokage. (After the hospital, after Naruto’s whole “I’d rather be dumb” bit, Jiraiya pretty much was all, “Oh well, can’t be helped”, and gave up.)
Now, there is no problem with having an ideal or a dream, but Naruto has rarely ever had a time where it was TRULY challenged (98% of the time, he seems to always get what he wants with his situations, and another 1% being ones that initially don’t, but end up in his favor in the end anyway). One or two people saying “no” to it won’t really do anything. For his feelings on Sasuke alone, it took Sasuke almost KILLING Sakura for Naruto to FINALLY see that Sasuke didn’t “need” nor want saving, but even then, he simply makes a one-sided “suicide pact” with Sasuke with his whole “we’ll both die” and “I’ll share the burden with you” declarations rather than actually admit it.
It’s why I say that Naruto definitely has the brute power to be a Kage (despite the emphasis on “teamwork”, it does feel like power constantly takes the front seat, doesn’t ?), but he severely lacks the mentality to be one, which is why, “realistically”, I couldn’t see him as a Kage anytime soon. Thinking quickly on your feet in the midst of battle is far different from being a tactician, politician, and so on like what is expected of a Kage. Also the need to be unbiased in decision-making (…no…), even having to make decisions that may come at personal sacrifice to himself or others (himself, I could see him do, but others? Eh…), and keeping his emotions in check (not really…).
Hooray for interent essays!