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「動くな、死ね、甦れ！ We know exactly how you think and how you’re fighting !」 (Ugoku na, Shine, Yomigaere!)
“Freeze, Die, Come to Life! We know exactly how you think and how you’re fighting !”
Oh boy, where do I even begin this week? In what was by far Re:Creators’ best episode to date, we not only got some serious answers, but even more questions, several important developments, and foreshadowing of greater things to come. It was a cornucopia of shock and awe, complete of course with a little Magane fourth wall breaking, because nothing says complete like batsh*t crazy.
Ignoring the Magane angle for a moment, the two critical pieces for me here were Celestia and Altair. We finally have confirmation creation updates are possible, and do work as liberally stated through popularity. Takashi posts Celestia’s improved form on the internet, the crowd goes wild, and suddenly we have a flaming Excalibur. Besides the slight absurdity of social media reacting that much that fast, it’s quite interesting how the effect is temporary. Once the Twitter rush turns into a trickle, Celestia reverts to form. This effectively proves character changes not only need popularity, but continuous popularity. For Celestia to own her new powers, they must be enshrined in the collective conscious, such as through an official story release. As the social media post was largely inquisitive (i.e. broaching a potential change) the audience only took it as an idea—they briefly imagined it, and once distracted, collectively discarded it. We will certainly see more character revisions moving forward given the concept’s proven validity, but I anticipate the focus will shift to making any change permanent. Except a serious Celestia story update in the near future.
Altair’s appearance meanwhile overturns the apple cart by throwing open (again) the idea of world destruction. Her new powers for one seriously the raise the question of character control, while her fragmentation calls into doubt the simplicity of universal annihilation. This fascinates me because it appears Altair can control character destruction. Since our military princess also determines creation materialization, each “existing” creation therefore depends on Altair for their “existence”. She basically functions as a conduit supplying power all materialized creations, which is in part the reason why only Altair is targeted once world collision reaches a critical point. If true there’s obviously more to it than this (ex. why everyone else doesn’t fragment alongside Altair), but at the minimum the scene indicates Altair’s scheme requires something else to work. I honestly don’t know what it could be, but betting on it involving character revisions—particularly permanent revisions a la future Celestia—is not a bad idea. Souta still lacks a role after all and also has the wonderful distinction of being Altair’s second creator. Wouldn’t take long for Altair to find a use for the kid should such an idea prove correct.
And if things weren’t good enough already, we also have Magane for dessert. No matter one’s opinions on miss shark teeth, I think it’s clear now she is set up to be the final boss. Besides showing Yuuya what happens when you talk dirty to her, Magane can also apparently steal abilities from other creations. Ignoring whether Magane’s power in this case is limited to accompanying spirits and such—I’m guessing it is for “OP as f*ck” reasons—it shows another potential way to rewrite characters. With two double negative statements, Magane has both prevented Yuuya from ever harming her, and ripped half his core character away, all without needing to consult the fans. While certainly limited to what Magane can steal with her power, this means at minimum miss crazy can update/augment her own abilities at will. It will be incredibly interesting to see what the limits of this are, because every character has special abilities, especially Altair. If you thought Altair was ridiculous with that disintegration power, imagine it in the hands of our Miracle Maid. I don’t know if I can get more excited.
So with Re:Creator’s first act now complete—thanks Magane—we are apparently all set for some serious fun and games. Celestia’s fate is unknown thanks to one gaping hole, Meteora has finally learned the lance is mightier than the mouth, and Souta, bless his heart, has found his inner strength. No denying Mamika’s death has catalyzed a significant shift in Re:Creators’ plot, one whose outcome is very much up in the air. After all, with Alice also a ticking time bomb and Magane a legitimate threat to both sides, there’s no indication who—if anyone—will come out on top here. All we can do is await next week to learn a little bit more. Boy do I ever wish that Saturdays came in pairs.
Random Tidbits
Magane was not lying regarding the history of Hangaku. She was a famous samurai at the inception of the Kamakura Shogunate, serving as a commander during the Kennin Uprising before being wounded and captured. Funnily enough, however, she lived and ended up happily married with a daughter. Joan d’Arc definitely would have been jealous.
Magane didn’t get shot and killed bad writing.
Last week, I said Alice will never have Mamika’s moment of reckoning, and she will die an idiot.
Then this s**t happens https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2018.jpg and I just don’t know what to think anymore.
Like, is this even right? What happened this time to make her kinda horrified (or confused, whatever) at the sight of blood? If she is a valiant, honorable knight who fights for her people and their welfare within her fiction, then she most definitely had to spill blood. Why should this be any different?
Is it just me, or is there something missing in all this, a proper explanation perhaps? Because otherwise, I’m kinda calling bulls**t, like a way to force a change within her character that feels both unbalanced and not in touch with her character. If she was designed to be an idiot of an adversary from the get-go, then don’t go out of your way to force a change in her and make the audience feel more sympathy for her, especially after she wouldn’t listen to Souta’s words this episode. A lot of people don’t wanna care about her at this point. Don’t sacrifice the story’s integrity for her sake.
I don’t know what to think about this. It’s probably not a big deal in the long run, but if it has any developments after this… I don’t know, am I the only that felt this wasn’t right?
Yeah, that bit got me thinking too. The easy explanation would be her boring, contradicting chivalry code requires her to fight fair and square without cheating. But I lean more on the idea of a kid throwing tantrum.
In the sense that Alice only lashing out her anger due to the unjust done to her and doesn’t actually care what is true and forcing her opinion through even when she knows it’s wrong. Whether she realizes that from Meteora protecting Souta or way before then, I do not know. But it’s just like when a child does not get his way, they will yell and throw things to the wall even when deep down they know they are in the wrong. And when the child accidentally hurt someone or did something irreversible, they tend to stop in fear but generally keep up their stance due to fear and lashes out even more as it is an easier way out. A lot of people may complain and yell at that child being a bad kid, but children are generally not that mentally developed and cannot control their emotions well.
As for Alice…If that is the reason she was shocked from hurt Meteora and Celestia, then it just means she’s a big baby and wants things to go her way. Much like Mamika’s thought pattern when she first arrived. But Mamika admitted that that way of thinking may be too green and thus keeps thinking and grow. It’s why I find it easy to relate and compare their thinking to a child growing up. I can’t get annoyed at characters that made mistakes because they don’t know better, but can never stand characters that turn their back on the truth and refuse to get better.
Although, we still don’t know how much of the background and hidden setting causes this. Since I think they mentioned before that the changes occurring after they arrived may be due to hidden settings in the character, I like to think that they either fill those gaps by using the author’s personality or how the author thinks of the character consciously and unconsciously. Similar to Hideaki Anno mentioning how he kinda based Ikari Shinji’s personality off of himself.
I was really uncertain of this before this episode since we didn’t know what will actually affect the creation’s ability and setting, but with how they changed Celestia’s setting this time. They seem to have only posted the art online and not the edited draft (even if they did posted it, I doubt anyone can finish reading it within seconds). If that is the case, that means that the general public only need to be aware and approve of a certain idea and the background setting is up for the original author to change.
True, true. Alice really falls into a lot of what you say, like “A big baby and wants things to go her way”, “lashing out her anger due to the unjust done to her and doesn’t actually care what is true and forcing her opinion through even when she knows it’s wrong”, and “characters that turn their back on the truth and refuse to get better.”
As for her author unconsciously influencing her outta-nowhere character quirk, huh, ok. That would make sense if that’s what happened here, though I do hope they mention this going forward. I’m not stubborn enough to be upset if a character like her happens to get redemption eventually, but I just want it to be believable.
I think Aliceteria´s shock this episode come from the fact she can´t tell which side is good anymore. Think about it for a momment, in her world she was fighting an enemy hellbent in wiping all life on the planet, she had no reason to doubt her mission, her cause was just so killing her enemies was easier than in other stories, no need to feel sorry for a buch of omnicidal maniacs, like in the Tolkien Legendarium, no matter in humans betray each other other you can bet anyone serving Morgoth or Sauron didn´t deserve to live one more minute and who is going to feel sorry for the orcs? You could kil a 100 millions of those bastards and will stil count as a service to the world. Then Alice gets into this world and she has the horrible luck of getting onto Altair claw´s, after so many deceptions and lies she cannot see the truth anymore, she´s beyond desperate to save her world then the only person who truly was her friend is killed so she tries to kill her so call murderers but as Souta just proove she even doubts that but injuring someone that is most likely inocent and a better that she demostrated to be is seriously what is destroying her sanity.
Perhaps Aliceteria has only fought complete monsters in her story that she’s baffled when her enemies start doing noble and/or chivalrous acts while her own allies are without honor. As bullheaded as she is, she may be starting to realize that she joined the wrong side.
Yeah, Wish they would give a bit more background information on her. Since with her being so easily to define what is the good guys and villains, it made me wonder if she ever fought against humans as opponents. All her spells and abilities feels more like anti-army/anti-monster than fighting humans one-on-one as well. It’s also why I mentioned in the previous post that it’s hard to tell if she actually start doubting herself before Meteora defended Souta or was that the turning point for her.
Alice just witnessed Meteora selflessly throwing herself in the harms way to protect Souta.
This of course does not compute well with her idea of Meteora as merciless killer of Mamika.
Bonus points for Souta being useful exactly because he was weak amongst super(wo)men.
I see it as a combination of shock, naive thinking, and her rigid chivalry. Celestia was knowingly strong, and I doubt Alice expected her to simply up and “die” like that–the suddenness of it and Altair’s role probably jolted Alice. Couple that with Souta’s refusal to move and Meteora’s chivalrous defense of the dweeb and you get all those lovely mixed emotions swirling on Alice’s face. She expected–wanted–the fight to go a certain way, and when it didn’t, she was left a confused mess. Or a big baby as Nioa bluntly puts it 😛
Just to correct what I said before after rewatching all the episodes. Apparently Alice mentioned that the enemy in her story may want all humans to die, which may strengthen the idea that the enemies may not be human. Thus, somewhat explain her naïve thinking of right and wrong.
damn it selesia! that’s really bad for my heart…
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2035.jpg
and wow magane! deadpool wannabe? haha
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2036.jpg
hmm about magane power..why i feel there’re a connection with truth or dare game? everytime before magane chant lies about lies….the opponent either point her lies or challenge her.
something like this,
p1:what if i can bla bla?
p2:you’re lying! or try it if your can! bla bla bla
and actually magane’s not lying because she actually can do what her said before with her power(it’s just not activated yet) so the premise become truth.
I hope Celestia doesn’t die. She feels like she didn’t have anything to do yet. Would be way too soon.
Never going to happen, this is a cliffhanger that solved itself in the moment that it came into existence. Her death would not contribute to the story in any way. So, killing her, right now would be a stupid move. Besides, lately, she has been thrown into a bit of a warrior role without much character exploration, which often promotes a numbing of an otherwise heavy feels reaction when deaths occur. Normally when characters are to be offed – like Mamika for example – the story starts “hanging closer” to them, so that our love/proximity to them increases as well making such deaths more painful; a sadistic move, albeit one that story wise works miracles.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2029.jpg
“EKSU…. KAIBA!”
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2036.jpg
Magane continues to be best girl. She has both the lance a d the mouth. Beat that you Austrian walking encyclopedia. Among my friends, there’s split opinions about Magane. Most of them are in the Meteroa camp.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2007.jpg
#protectthatsmile
Heh, people have different types of characters they like so it can’t be help. But I hope your friends in the Meteora camp at least acknowledge Magane is still a pretty awesome character~
Love Meteora as hero, Love Magane as a villain. You can love both.
RedRocket has it right, why have one when you can have both. Harems exist for a reason after all 😛
Heh, I agree and love that thinking. But I have some friends that doesn’t appreciate Magane since they’re the type that just doesn’t like villains and doesn’t give them a chance, which makes me sad…
Magane as a villain shoulnd’t be in this show. As it depends on the stupidity of the characters, and silly coincidences. These HAVE to be done so heavily handed that you pretty much see the outline of the writer’s hands whenever she’s on screen. I mean Meteora JUST told glasses badass dude her power, and how to counter it, and HE WALKS INTO IT ANYWAY WHAT. THE. FUCK? Between Souta being retarded (he needs to die, period.) Alice being blind and deaf, Mamika not learning from her mistakes, it slike the whole show can only move forward if like 40% of the cast are stupid beyond recognition. I’m done with this trash. Flashy fights can only take you so far. If you have Crap writing like this, there’s no point in caring about the characters, as you might as well just call up the writers as everything done is for the writers to do X. If the reader/watcher, feels your presence as a writer/author YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. These readers/ watchers lose immersion because the characters and story aren’t consistent with each other Nor are the consistent enough with the average intellect of the reader. If the reader has to think “Yo, this kid is stupid, yo, these characters are dumb.” OVER AND OVER again, you’ve lost them. They are no longer caring about your story, they are caring about how dumb and annoying the characters are. It’s a whole you as a writer can not! get out of once you’re there. At that point you might as well trash the script/manuscript, and start over.
This is coming from someone who works at a publishing company and looks as up and coming authors doing this shit all the time. I’ve sent so many manuscripts back to authors who need to end this shit it’s ridiculous.
Staff interview facts revealed:
– Ep 10 is considered the “middle climax” (presumably of the entire series).
– Celestia’s powerup is the writers reworking the upgrade theme played around with in Ep 3. It wasn’t planned in advance.
– Hiroe Rei says the overall story is also about the creators, mentioning Souta’s speech.
https://www.sunday-webry.com/events/re_creators_naked/interview10/
Re Creators’s Mamika fan event:
https://twitter.com/rix_tsubasa/status/873441725766815744
And it’s a full-on funeral.
Welp, they more than made sure to make us resign to the reality of Mamika’s death, alright.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2033.jpg
What if Blitz is helping Altair because he actually symphatizes with her past and cause?
could be, though he is quite least talkative of the combatants, at least regarding his motivation…
According to the Pixiv in the anime, blitz might have a daughter.
He should have a daughter. In episode 4, when Alice insulted him, he mentioned even his daughter doesn’t talk to him like that. Considering he seem smart enough to tell what Altair is doing, could he be seeking the same kind of revenge as her? Which is why Altair respects him as a true comrade?
Honestly, both doesn’t seem like strong theories since Altair mentioned that she hates all “Creations” and that should include Blitz? And Blitz hinted before that violence is not a method he fully approve of…God…having to wait till July…This show totally got me so addicted that going without new episodes for a few weeks is nothing less of torture…
He could, but I think there’s more to it than that. Altair was quite respectful towards him (i.e. the -dono honorific), and I get the feeling she isn’t to just anyone. These two definitely know each other beyond simple partnership.
Just like aldnoah zero, I cant’ stand the writing for this show. Mamika’s last words were ridiculous and super vague “protect that person”?????? And Alice just blindly believing Magane’s words for no reason is even more idiotic beyond belief. It completely ruins this show.
The episode brings into light most of the cast’s personalities.
Alice for one is akin to Demona of Gargoyles. Both suffered injustice but commit the same injustice as well later using their dark pasts to justify their actions. However when put in situations where clearly they were in the wrong, they did accept but continued their vendetta as its the only they have left. However, this reached to the climatic scene where Alice began to ask herself “What she has done!” She wasn’t a knight anymore.
Yuya’s case is his relationship with Hangaku. If there is any truth from Magane, Yuya’s relationship might be a forced one. Yuya did say that he was on the run and many of those he was close to were hurt in the process. Hangaku might be one of the reasons he developed this personality we know today and his lashing out at his Creator. It’s unknown how Yuya is feeling after Hangaku is no longer with him but this is a future he must take up on and find a path that wasn’t meant for him.
Most of Sota’s life has always centered around Setsuna’s death. However thanks to the events that have occured, Sota finally realized that his chance has appeared. While he wasn’t Meteora’s God but he represented what opinions Meteora had regarding her late Creator, someone who really loves the work he has created and those that live in it. You could even say that in Meteora’s eyes, her father was there to protect her.
Correlating with the recent one, Selesia’s relationship with her Creator and because of it, it proves the theory that was mentioned many episodes ago. By gaining support from others, the power was granted. However, I also believed that Selesia’s Creator recent power was the result of both fans and his fatherly love for Selesia.
While the episode left off with most of our heroes injured but there was an opportunity discovered. Meaning when they recovered, our heroes are better prepared for future battles ahead.
Alice and ehr fall reminds me so much of Aribeth from Neverwinter Nights…
As much as this was supposed to be a turnaround episode for Souta… wow, Matsubara really showed up. For all the mental slaps to the face Alice received this episode, seeing a creator have such pure concern for his creation definitely had to be one of the hardest. With the concept of revision proven now, it’ll be interesting to see how the scales shift. I would think Yuya’s creator will have to become more involved since he got so thoroughly nerfed by Magane that he needs a revision just to stay competitive, but beyond that… Meteora’s creator is dead and Blitz’s creator is under government protection, so that really only leaves Kanoya and Alice as the other plausible options for a successful revision at the moment (assuming Alice’s creator is still being held captive by the Altair camp). Another thing working against Meteora is that even if the remaining designers at Titan Digitalsoft try to revise her… she’s just an NPC. Celestia’s revision worked in part, I think, because she is the heroine of her story and as such can invoke such a frenzied fan reaction. All of the summoned creations are popular of course, that’s been established, but I’d wager there’s a fundamental gap despite between main characters like Celestia, Kanoya, and Alice and supporting cast members like Meteora.
The process of “character revision” leaves many questions open, though.
Ok, let’s assume that original creators can change their characters if their additions prove to cause a great impression. But the same question from episode 3 remains: why doesn’t this Selesia remember anything from the last published novel?
-The “she’s from the anime” explanation doesn’t work anymore. If she’s affected by a tweet by Matsubara, she should be affected by a whole book.
-The “she’s the same, but from an earlier point in the timeline” is sketchy at best, for in his tweet Matsubara said that he may include this power up in the next book.
-The “general impressions of the character may be changed, but the plot is a different matter” might be possible. Awfully convenient, though, and it doesn’t explain why the characters do remember other parts of their plots.
-The “last novel was so bad that fans pretend it never existed” could explain everything and is realistic (the trope ‘Fanon Discontinuity’ says hi), but I’d feel very bad for Matsubara then ^_^;
I’d just chalk it up to convenient plot hole at this point, there’s no way in hell right now to merge what we saw with the previous information. Unless you like pulling your hair out of course 😛
Well, another explanation I’ve seen is that this Selesia is indeed from the anime, but the tweet being public knowledge and appearing in manga-anime websites meant that the anime audience was suddenly impressed by the new design and it worked… for a time.
It would also explain why the effect disappeared so quickly. It’s not just that these things don’t stick for more than a couple of hours; once the anime audience realized it was just for a future book, their interest plummeted.
But yeah, this is like Magane’s powers: for a show which devotes entire episodes to exposition, it’s ironic that it’s so vague about some important details.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2005.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2010.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2013.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2014.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2017.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2019.jpg
My heart literally smashed when i see two of my waifus were crushed by this Blonde Knight.
I really hope Souta can change her mind to see things from his perspectives but i guess shes really a lost cause. Not only shes been a big “bully” to Meteora throwing her around like a little doll, she also stabbed my Selestia!
My reactions for the whole episode: “Look what you did! A weak little magician is the only one you could defeat?!” <– Selestia got me lol when she called Meteora a 'little magician' but yea, thats a perfect line to throw at some big bully like Aliceteria. I want to sympathize with Alice, and i honestly loved her as a character and also her design (and Yoko Hikasa!) but shes becoming more and more like one of those medieval folks charging blindly screaming "SHES A WITCH! KILL HER!!!" and kaboosh! Blood! Oh, its the wrong person! what have i done! nooo! someone must pay for this accident! (ahh, what am i saying XD she IS from the medieval era! did they wrote her too well???)
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2018.jpg
YUP. JUST LOOK AT YOURSELF, ALICE.
And as for Yuuya, what the hell are you doing getting yourself all hot and steamy with your own wife–i mean, by Magane. I think i believe Meteora demonstrated how to confront Magane right? By shutting up your mouth. I cannot believe how many times he got trapped by Magane again and again and again, again.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2036.jpg
Now, Hangaku is no more.
Anyhow, RECREATORS is choking me with Selestia and Altair.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2029.jpg
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2032.jpg
Altair clearly needs Selestia as her main sacrifice. Is it because shes the most popular anime of the season (as mentioned by Souta)? And that hole, that FREAKING HOLE on her body! And they wanna rush her to the hospital??? XD i mean, its a black baseball-sized of a hole literally went through her tummy! Good thing they didnt throw her organs flying like Araragi's.
https://randomc.net/image/Re%20Creators/Re%20Creators%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2035.jpg
Despite how OP people claim Magane to be, i still believe Altair is way beyond. Whatever she did to Selestia's sword was like shes the law to this fictional-reality universe herself. Shes a bender man! I thought i lost my oxygen when Alice was kicking Meteora around like a football, but when Selestia came to the rescue, suddenly bam! Lightning's rose petals everywhere! Oh god! My kokoro! Too bad that power-up didnt do much to change Selestia's wound; i guess they gotta take it to the next step by rushing her latest designs and get animated.
Anyway, since Magane told us Part.1 has just ended, i hope they dont do some seasonal hiatus because this week's was pretty much of a "clean cut" to wrap things up. I wish they'll give us some Souta's flashback episodes or something.
Phew, whadda intense episode.
Oh my god…I just realized how serious Mamika’s death turned this show into…Since for the first time in this show…No one was eating!!!
Apparently the 2nd half of Creators will air on July 8th; there’s 2 specials scheduled instead.
There’s also supposed to be prescreenings of Eps 11-12 in Japan too.
What are those specials? Recap episodes, as usual in other anime? That would mean we won’t have more original Re:Creators material in a month, sigh.
They didn’t state the nature of the specials. Will keep a lookout on what they are.
Update – what’s confirmed is Ep 13(or 12.5) will be a special episode before Part 2 airs in Jul 8.
We may still be getting Ep 11 & 12.
Can you post the link where you got that information from please? Since I’m confused what this is or if it’s entirely unrelated to the specials you guys are talking about considering the dates.
http://recreators.tv/news/?id=43807
I was expecting at least one given the 22 episode run, but two in a row would make me a sad panda. I don’t want to wait until July dammit, I need my fix ;_;
I’m going to go against the general sentiment and say: the more the writers conspire to make Alicetaria hold the Idiot Ball, the more I sympathize with her.
“Altair did it” is confirmed to have a curse that makes people die if they try to say it. First Mamika, now Souta, and he doesn’t have the excuse of a conveniently contrived death scene. Check it: he has the time to give a heartfelt speech about how cool Alicetaria is, but doesn’t even mention that he knows Meteora didn’t kill Mamika until Meteora herself tries to explain it. Why?! Souta has a unique knowledge that can turn the course of the situation, why the speech?
Especially since, at the end of the day, Alicetaria is right: she was made to live nightmare after nightmare so people would be entertained by it. That people felt “sad”, rooted for the hero and were crushed by her defeats doesn’t stop it from being “fun”; actually, it’s the very reason it was written that way. Just ask Game of Thrones fans.
Ironically, it’s all very fitting for her character. Alicetaria was a victim of her author in her world, so it makes sense she’s a victim of the writers here.
I completely agree with you about Alice. Not only has she lost her purpose in life (what’s the point of trying to save her world and people if all of her actions within are literally written to fail?), but she also lost the single person in this world who she can believe is being sincere (Altair is knowledgeable but sketchy, Magane is outright yuck but tends to annoyingly speak hard truths, Blitz is unreadable, and the other characters could be lying to her as well).
I can forgive Alice at this point for not wanting to think anymore. When Selesia showed up and launched at Alice, I got the impression that Alice semi-hoped at that point that Selesia would be able to defeat her and put her out of her existential misery.
Re Creators Recap gag manga 1-9:
http://imgur.com/a/fCrGx
The Holy Mother Meteora, aka Our Lady of the Potato Chip.
@zztop: Good post. Pretty funny stuff. 😀
There is no freaking way Selesia is going to die from that! They have barely develop her character at all! Mamika had the chance of maturing and coming to terms with her ideals before her showdown but all we know about Selesia is that she adjust very quickly to the circunstances, she must get much more screen time in the second part of the series!.
Oh guaranteed she won’t die, that would take away Meteora’s primary defense and we all saw how well she fares without it. Plus Celestia is a little too “important” in the cast to do away with that quickly.
I hope you´re right and Selesia´s injuries don´t leave her with permanent damage, Altair is already monster in both powers and personality so it would be a pain figthing her with a handicap, combine that with the fact Yuuya just lost Hangaku and it is safe to say the good are not winning this war so far.
In other news Pancake-san, I think you might like to know someone in Japan did a Funeral Sevice for poor Mamika, man that still hurts like hell, I hope they send Altair to hell for that one.
I don´t like Magane’s character, more specifically as a villain, but I’m not sure why. Is not like i hate her just for her wicked personality or the way she acts …
For me a good villian (or antagonist) needs a belivable motivation, and his actions must be consistent with his goal. Satou, from Ajin is a good example of this being, in my opinion, one of the best antagonist of recent seasons, an even better example would be Squealer, from Shinsekai Yori, his motivations, actions and goals are so freaking belivable and consistent, i just … All hail Squealer.
Magane in the other hand is one-dimensional character, you can describe her with one phrase “she likes chaos and uses lies to control other people in order to create it” and that’s it, there is nothing else. We don’t know why she is that way, it’s like she’s there just for the plot’s sake, just to make things “more interesting”, just to generate chaos, just to piss off other characters … But Why?
Everything in this show seems to me “prefabricated”, everything that happens, every reaction from the characters look like is for the convinience of the plot, its doesn’t feel organic (the whole affair of Mamika and Magane is a perfect example of this). All those little things makes that for me this show is fun, but nothing else…
“Some men just want to watch the world burn”
So yeah, Magane is pretty much The Joker from TDK. People who have no problem with Heath Ledger’s Joker’s motivation and goals shouldn’t have a problem with Magane’s (except for how lucky she is thanks to the writer).
Yeah, I must admit I don’t like how the writers make it so easy for her. In episode 8 a chance to cause havoc literally fell from the sky in front of her, and suddenly she was revealed to be inhumanely agile and fast all along. And now, in this episode, she managed to get the upper hand over Yuuya AGAIN despite Meteora’s warnings about it.
And completely agree about this kind of character. I still remember how The Dark Knight film mocked in-universe any consideration of the Joker’s backstory and motivation being important, and I definitely consider Ledger’s Joker a much better villain than Ra’s al Ghul and Bane, who were the exact opposite in that regard.
Of course, it doesn’t work for every villain. And not everyone will like the same things. But one of the strengths of Re:Creators is that it can use different character archetypes. For a villain with a backstory that most likely defines her character and motivation, we already have Altair.
I’ve got the same problem as Micheleuno.
But part of why Joker’s so interesting is because he serves as a ideological foil to Batman.
A Joker without Batman wouldn’t work as well.
This character has no foil or ideology, so your comparison doesn’t really apply well.
@The Guy with Glasses
That’s exactly the point, Glasses Guy.
She is the Joker brought to life without a Batman to stop her. She even said so herself how she can cut loose in this world because the MC of her story is not here to stop her. She’s the Charles Dance in Last Action Hero without an Arnold to stop him (if you’ve seen that movie, you’ll get my comparison).
To be fair she does have a goal (the whole Emperor plan), but it seemed more spur of the moment and hasn’t been touched on since. I definitely agree we feel it here because she lacks a Batman, all Magane is really doing right now is playing the court jester. She needs some sort of foil, but it’s bloody hard figuring out who among the current could fill that role. Unless we have some new character(s) inbound.
For me at least, I think the issue (one of them at least) is that she’s not a well defined character beyond the chaos for chaos’ sake, destruction for destruction’ sake, etc. She works well enough as is as an agent of chaos, but she could use more depth. In general, I agree with Oby in that she doesn’t need to be a foil. IMO, the Joker would be a fine character without Batman (and vice-versa).
Re:Creator being what it is, the “Joker without batman” part is probably intentional (Magane does mention her “batman” in-universe)
magane’s devilry and superiority over the cast feels forced and deliberate by the writing rather than feeling organic. It’s like the show wants to shove it in your face: “oooo…see how awesome and scummy magane is; isnt she the baddest badass villain you’ve ever seen??”. I actually find it misleading when others compare magane to the joker (to heath ledger’s performance no less). People who look closely into who the joker’s core character would understand immediately why magane’s charisma and depth in writing does not even compare. They are only comparable on a superficial level which isnt saying much because you could compare magane to any maniacal archetype of this kind
Yes, you said exactly what I’m trying to say.
Gotta work on putting my thoughts into words.
Mind you that nobody in this thread has said that Magane is on Ledger’s Joker-level of magnificence. Heck, if you read my earlier post above, I blatantly stated one of Magane’s obvious flaws (she has the devil’s luck thanks to the writer). We are responding to Micheleuno by comparing Magane & Ledger’s Joker on a superficial level of general motivation & goals because that’s what Micheleuno criticized about Magane in his first post. We use Ledger’s Joker as comparison because he is well-liked by most people who’ve seen TDK and people are okay with his general motivation & goals while Magane was criticized for more or less the same thing. I just don’t want any double standard applied here.
@Oby i wasnt implying that the thread was itself was making that direct comparison more than i was saying that this superficial comparison to the joker seems to be the general consensus with how the anime audience watching re-creators. I also wasnt trying to imply that people are making direct comparison’s to ledger’s joker but rather that the comparison to the joker character is being made in the first place period. I dont find any qualms at all with people making superficial comparisons between magane and the joker but even if we were comparing their general motivations, their arguably not that similar.
Magane at this moment is twisted just for the sake of being twisted while the joker wasnt and his actions served to flesh out his character and make him multi-faceted unlike with magane. Now granted the series is still hitting its stride so magane may get layered with some depth however as of now, she’s just a twisted villain with lacking motivations. Still, that doesnt stop her from being somewhat entertaining when on screen. She chews up the screen whenever she’s on with her deliberate wink and nods about how evil she is; in some respects in got its charm. It sort of reminds me of the over-the-top bombastic personalities of the black lagoon cast and how larger-than-life their personas were presented throughout the series; makes sense considering the writer.
@Sonic
Well, this is your previous statement:
Like I said (and you said as well), we compared Magane & Ledger’s Joker only on a superficial level. A superficial comparison leaves not much room for misleading (if at all). Joker & Magane might be different in specifics and after deeper observation but when it comes to the broad strokes, both still fall into the “jester of doom” or “agent of chaos” category. For those characters, craziness is their driving force/motivation and chaos is their general goal. You don’t really need more reasoning for them (though one or two bits of background info can be a nice bonus sometimes) which is contrary to Micheleuno’s complaints.
Since I was the one who triggered the Joker comparison in Micheleuno’s post-thread, I will defend my comment from being labeled as “misleading”.
i’d never thougth about that comparison, and i never expected so much discussion about my opinion 😀 For me and as everyone agrees, the Joker works because is there to prove wrong Batman’s ideology, but besides that, what makes it more grounded is that there is a lot of planning and premeditation in his actions, he doesn’t have a Mahou Shoujo dying in the most convinient way, and an ability to bend reality to his favor.
In my opinion this show is just a pile of Deus ex machinas..
And sorry for bad english
I liked how another blogger (who nevertheless praised the series) summed up most of the perceived problems of Re:Creators:
“The plot can’t escape the moments of artificiality when things are too convenient in order to achieve the understandable, yet pernicious goal of extending the anime, losing its credibility in the process”.
From Meteora’s enlightened infodumps and Alicetaria’s Idiot Ball to Mamika’s contrived last words and Magane’s unbeatable wordplay, many people have tried to rationalize and justify each of these “moments of artificiality”. However, as I feared, they are not random exceptions but a trend in the writing that keeps piling up.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy Re:Creators a lot. Heck, it’s motivated me to write fanfiction again (The Secret Journal Of Meteora Österreich! XD). But I find the claims that this is AOTY material rather premature.
Meteora’s so-called “enlightened infodumps” is actually pretty easy to rationalize & justify like I have done in previous episodes’ threads. Some people just don’t like them. As for the others, there aren’t many justifiable excuses for them IMO.
Wait, someone actually think R:C is AOTY? I must’ve missed that. Then again, it’s their opinions.
I’m not surprised some are already heralding AOTY, for its faults the show is proving wickedly entertaining and has only stepped on the gas of late–for many that’s more than enough to start screaming Mamika/10.
I agree though it’s definitely too early for such claims, and even then Re:Creators needs something else to really rise above and stand out. Right now it’s pure popcorn entertainment IMO. Flashy and glorified with a little thinking, but still popcorn 😛
@Oby
I wasn’t referring to the amount of exposition by Meteora (which I do consider a problem, although a different one), but the content of such exposition. Mainly, her magical deduction of episode 4 about Gunpuku’s goals and means. Me and others criticized it for being too contrived, too convenient and too heavyhanded… the defining signs of a “moment of artificiality” that we are used to by now.
You’d be surprised. Most people notice that there are these “moments of artificiality” in the series; however, I also notice that we don’t agree on which they are. What is passable or even justifiable for some feels forced and unbelievable for others, and the other way round. Very often it’s divided by character. Nevertheless, when all the series is taken as a whole, it’s easy to spot the trend in the writing.
@Pancakes
Indeed, what I’ve seen in other forums points to the same conclusion: it’s entertaining, it shows things not often seen in other anime, it has twists and people like the characters. And when there’s criticism, discussions get passionate. Fandom joy 😀
@Mistic
Don’t forget that she’s already established in episode 2 to have a magic book. That and Metchin’s own experience fighting Altair are sensible and natural sources for her deduction. Plus, she’s a smart person herself and has experience in guiding the hero to fight evil/save the world in her own game.
I also remember that the Magic Book wasn’t even mentioned, that we only know of the experiences with Altair that supposedly justify Meteora’s hypothesis because Meteora mentioned them in that very deduction exercise, and no matter how a character is presented, arguments have to make sense without leaps of logic. No foreshadowing, no questioning, only appeal to authority and plot convenience.
In the end, this proves my aforementioned point: “what is passable or even justifiable for some feels forced and unbelievable for others, and the other way round”. If it were a moment or two it wouldn’t matter, just bait for fans to discuss and disagree about something for a couple of hours. But as I feared back in the day, this is a trend. I bet that part 2 will have its own share of these “moments of artificiality” too.
@Mistic
Eh, the “spontaneity” of how she came up with the theory is really not the problem. And yes, how a character is presented is influential in cases like this. Let’s say if in a murder story, one character is already established as a detective and then he suddenly spews a theory that’s outrageous but still possible, it’s a lot easier to take from him until it’s proven otherwise thanks to the ‘detective’ status of the speaker. If the same stunt is to be performed by, say, a well-established housewife (without any twist), it won’t work as good and can be considered as nonsense ramblings. Thus, since we all know what Metchin is capable of, what her skills are (to a degree) and her experiences are already defined previous to the theory, stomaching her deduction is a lot easier than the other conveniences that you mentioned. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still convenient, but a lot more tolerable after knowing Metchin’s character (for me, at least).
Not exactly. I think it’s safe to say that all of us agree that Magane bumping into various characters repeatedly in such a perfect timing is a super-convenience that easily eclipses the other “moments of artificiality” that you speak of.
Again, you’d be surprised.
The same you felt that Meteora’s Informed Attributes made the magical deduction more acceptable (while for me it makes it even worse) and other people argued that Mamika’s contrived last words were not only believable, but even realistic (suddenly, a lot of people were instant experts in blood-loss related deaths), I’ve seen fans defending the coincidences with Magane. The most common argument is that, since she fulfills the “horror villain archetype”, it makes sense she would be in the right place at the right moment, while in other characters that would defy conventions.
That’s why I said the perception of artificiality tends to be “divided by character”: the acceptance of such moments depends a lot on which character does it.
I think that it’s due to the very nature of Re:Creators: by showcasing characters from different genres, the audience’s tolerance of genre conventions is tested. It doesn’t help that Re:Creators fumbles between defying them and playing them straight.
Very intense episode. We learn Altar is trying to destroy the world on a theory but that she does not know exactly how.
Selesia going to hospital reminds me that Mamika comes from a modern culture where the first thing anyone would think when hurt is to find medical help and then call their friend. But somehow I thought Mamika’s actions still fit the magical girl genre in that she did not seek medical attention. I do think that scene unnecessarily stretched random chance. Especially as Magane stalking the event where Mamka confronted Altar and then following a wounded Mamka would have seemed better, especially if Mamak fell in a less trafficked area of the city. I put this down to the short writing deadline effects on both Anime and live action TV in that there is little time to rethink story points or run things by a panel of knowledgeable fans who are both good at spotting problems but recommending better solutions that still get the writer’s plot going where they want to. Yet even longer timelines can cause dumb errors I know of trilogies that have inconsistencies between sections probably caused by the size of the work.
Now if we find out that this improbable event was the result of the fact that the world that our characters exist in is just a writer’s creation as well or some other major hidden reason it could be a wonderful plot point.
I worry about the crazy villains like Magane in that authors often use them to pull twists that a sane villain would never do. Crazy villains can cause me to hate a fiction. But done right crazies can be great villains and here Magane is not the main villain yet so the demands on her are less.
Finally caught up on this. Getting there. :/ Since that’s the case, perhaps more general comments than strictly pertaining to this episode.
I guess there’s some Meteora backlash, but honestly she’s among my favorites because she’s not stupid (*glares* at Alice – I think that’s the knight girl’s name). She does have her infodumps, but well, way the story is going it’s gonna be one character or another. Is she too smart? Eh, IDK about that. She certainly not has/OP. Been getting her ass kicked a lot lately. Even if she does have a good grasp of what’s going on, she’s pretty well balanced in terms of overall power to affect the outcome. All in all, someone on the protagonist side needs to step up mentally and Meteora is the likely candidate. I like Celestia, but she’s really not the strategy type. God knows Alice isn’t.
Problem I have with Alice is that she’s too easily manipulated, and frankly arguably consistently so. She was totally suspicious of Megane (a “poisonous liar”) – and for good reason. Granted shouldn’t judge a book by its cover, but Megane screams “villain”. Yet she falls for Megane’s “half-truths” or whatever you want to call it last episode. If you think she’s a totally untrustworthy liar, then why believe ANYTHING Megane says? Mahou-Shoujo girl (forgot name), I can see because she’s super nice & naive. So while I’m thinking “WTF is wrong with you? WHY would you trust Megane to do anything, especially important stuff” when M-Shoujo was dying, it’s a least a bit palatable given who she is. She did try to save Altair. IDK. Just seems to me like Alice is stupid for the plot’s sake. :/
As for the ML (Souta?), I guess this is his “redemption” episode via his otaku powers/love of anime/games. I’ll be honest, I found him quite trying past few episodes so while he didn’t do much (which is fine) this episode, it’s an improvement. I’m NOT suggesting by any means he goes into hero/hax mode, but damn dude, worlds (plural) on the line here. Start dishing some info on Altair NOW before it’s too late. Thankfully, we gotten past him being guilt leashed by Megane.
As for Megane, she seem to have both some fans and detractors. I’m in the middle. I consider her an above average villain – she’s not stupid, and “just wanting to see the world burn” works OK/well enough. I realize that they are no longer “tied to the script”, but that is her base personality from her story it seems. That being said, she’s not the best-est, epic-est villain either IMO. The smarmy act makes her flamboyant and gives some personality, but I wonder how well that will wear episode after episode.
Not only that, her “turning lies inside out” or into truth or whatnot powers seem to be quite plot dependent rather than clearly established and consistent. She “stole” Hangaku because… shut up she just did? O.o What if your response to her blathering is “f**k you” and that’s it? Is her power all one sided, two lies from her and something happens? I thought there was a participation element to it. IMO this needs to get nailed down some because otherwise it’s too much “as the plot demands” which isn’t very satisfying. Lastly, Magane benefits a LOT from plot convenience. How many times has she been in just the right place at just the right time?
Lastly, the ability to update characters was an interesting addition, though again we are left with mostly speculation. Perhaps, it needs to be published (and thus “cannon”) along with wide-spread acceptance. IDK, but again, ultimately should be established and consistently applied. It does give a way for the protagonist to power up, and the way things are going, they will need it.
TL:DR = Pretty good if not outright good show & glad we got past ML drama, but there are definitely some flaws as well.
Waiting to see Magane hoisted by own petard when someone ina middle of word-fencing throws out “It’s not like Magane is gonna suddenly develop conscience and commit suicide from grief over her actions” and she uses her catchphrase in a hurry only to have “oh crap!” moment…
A small observation about Magane’s ‘power-stealing’ abilities. That probably isn’t an actual ‘power-stealing’ ability that’s limited to spirits or whatnot. As long as people keep denying her words and thus fueling her power, she can probably steal whatever the F*** she wants. Your voice? Fine… Lover? Why not… Spirit companion? That’s what you get for falling for the taunts!
The only reason she’s not OP as F*** is that she’s limited by herself. Things have to catch her fancy before she goes after them. It doesn’t look like she’s operating on any other principle than to make things interesting for herself.
It was definitely a game changer episode. I always end up falling for the supporting characters so I don’t want any more harm to come to Mirokuji! He’s proving to be the anti-hero I’ve always wanted lol
I’m still a bit vexed at Magane never getting her comeuppance in these fights but perhaps that’s still to come. I’m torn between the moments where I love her cleverness and that her deadliest weapon is her words, and the stretches where I hate how over-the-top evil-for-the-lolz she is.