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CODE GEASS R2 – 14

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Summary:

Twenty years ago in a.t.b 1997, V.V. had asked Charles if he had learned anything from being Emperor, and Charles’s answer was that everyone is a liar. When V.V. had then reminded Charles of their contract, Charles had affirmed that they’re going to kill the gods and destroy the lies in the world. Back in the present, Rolo finds Lelouch still kneeling over Shirley’s body at the train station and mentions how dangerous it was that Shirley’s memories returned. Lelouch realizes that this means Rolo was the one who killed Shirley, and Rolo confirms it, saying that he has to eliminate Lelouch’s enemies. Instead of being angry though, Lelouch compliments Rolo on a job well done and proposes that they go destroy the Geass cult and the source of Geass. Rolo objects to the idea, but Lelouch feels that they can’t keep running away and suggests that it’s for the sake of their happiness. Shirley’s body is discovered sometime after the two leave, and Suzaku eventually learns from a coroner that she died of multiple organ failure from blood loss and shooting herself. He’s still in shock over how she committed suicide by the time of the funeral, and her friends are as well, including Nina who finds out from Milly. Nina cries for Shirley despite not having gotten along with her, and Kanon comforts her and suggests that she had been envious of Shirley.

Meanwhile, on Penglai Island, C.C. is talking telepathically with someone again about how Lelouch left her there, and she worries that Lelouch might have forgotten their contract. When Lelouch finally does contact her, he tells her about using the Zeroth Squad to go destroy the cult. C.C. is surprised that Lelouch would want to destroy the cult rather than make use of them since the people there aren’t armed but are instead just researching Geass. Lelouch’s insistence on destroying them leads C.C. to question what happened, so Lelouch explains how Shirley had been at the mercy of Geass until the very end and how she had been killed by it. This leads C.C. to realize that Lelouch wants to prevent this tragedy from ever happening again as his atonement, and Lelouch feels that only one person having the power of Geass is enough. Since Lelouch intends to erase Rolo from this world, C.C. wonders if he’s going to erase her too, so he responds that he couldn’t even if he wanted to since she’s immortal. When C.C. points out that V.V. is immortal as well, Lelouch feels that it’ll be fine just to put V.V. out of business. He then asks C.C. about having been at the top of the cult, but she feels that she had just been a figurehead, unlike V.V. currently. Regardless, she notes that she and Lelouch were accomplices, and this leads to Lelouch trying to get her to confirm the contents of their contract and what she wishes for. C.C., however, declines to tell him because it has nothing to do with the military operation.

Sometime later, V.V. is wondering if the Emperor knew about Cornelia’s movements when he receives a transmission from Jeremiah. The person on the other end turns out not to be Jeremiah but rather Lelouch, and he demands to know if V.V. was the one who kidnapped Nunnally during the battle in Tokyo. V.V. confirms that it was indeed him and figures out since Lelouch is asking, it means that Lelouch’s memories have returned. He tries to get Lelouch to give C.C. up, but Lelouch only cares about how it’s become war between them now. V.V. isn’t worried about that because he thinks that by the time Lelouch comes, the cult will have gone to another location, however at that very moment, their underground base is attacked. As it turns out, Lelouch had been transmitting to V.V. from right outside the base, but he wanted V.V. to think that he was in Area 11 in order to delay V.V. from escaping. The attack prompts V.V. to order his men to put their research data onto a transport and to prepare a certain something for him because he intends to personally go out and fight. As the massacre of everyone there begins, some members of the Black Knights find it odd that all the people they’re killing are unarmed. Lelouch, however, tells his men that everyone is guilty until proven innocent and that Britannia was committing blasphemy against life by trying to research immortal soldiers here. One of the victims of this is Bartley, and as he lays dying, he sees C.C. and thinks that it would have been better not to have messed with an immortal woman.

While the fighting is going on, Diethard is at Penglai telling Li Xingke and Toudou about how Zero is off destroying a Britannian research facility. Toudou feels that with Saudi Arabia suppressed, they need to hurry up the ratification of the United States charter, and Xingke reports that Poland and Italy have become their allies. Afterwards, Diethard assigns Sayoko to follow Ougi because Ougi has been acting strange and hiding something. As it turns out, Villetta is at this moment trying to find a flight to China because she feels Ougi is her only option now that Jeremiah has been taken in by Lelouch. Back at the Geass cult base, a Black Knight soldier encounters some children who have Geass powers, and when they start controlling him, Rolo arrives and executes everyone involved. Rolo is still fiercely loyal to Lelouch, but what he doesn’t realize is that Lelouch intends to kill him with the bomb attached to the Vincent to make him atone for Shirley. What messes up Lelouch’s plans a little is the appearance of V.V. piloting the Siegfried. The Black Knight Knightmares quickly surround the Siegfried and start firing on it, but their weapons are ineffective against its electromagnetic armor. When Jeremiah even gets involved, V.V. points out that Jeremiah had hated Zero, however Jeremiah feels that if he’s to serve Zero, it’s for Marianne’s sake. Hearing that name infuriates V.V.

Lelouch then decides to send Rolo against V.V. with the intent of taking out both of them at once with the bomb on the Vincent. Although Rolo does manage to get up close to the Siegfried, before Lelouch can activate the bomb, the Siegfried gets hit with cannon fire from below. The culprit is none other than Cornelia using an Akatsuki she had hot-wired, and her entering the battle means that Rolo gets to live. Cornelia had damaged the Siegfried’s armor, and when both she and Lelouch fire on it together, the Siegfried goes down. Back underground, the remaining members of the Geass cult are ready to escape via a secret train to the EU, but in their way is C.C. and her Akatsuki. Before blowing the train up, C.C. apologizes for her sin of neglecting them and says that the genealogy of Geass ends there. Meanwhile, unaware of what’s going on, Kallen is back in Japan talking with Nunnally about Lelouch when Suzaku interrupts them so that he can speak with Kallen alone. He tells her about Shirley’s death, and despite the official assessment of suicide, he suspects that Lelouch is guilty of killing her. Suzaku also thinks that Lelouch is Zero again, and when Kallen claims that she doesn’t know Zero’s true identity, Suzaku decides to use the Refrain drug on her because he doesn’t want to create any further tragedy.

By now, V.V. has escaped from the Siegfried’s cockpit and has crawled his way to the room that has a giant door with the Geass symbol on it. That door is now open, and the Emperor of Britannia is on the other side. V.V. is glad to see that he can depend on the relationship with his brother, and when the Emperor asks, V.V. reveals that sending an assassin after Lelouch is what led to this retaliation. V.V. feels that the upside is that they now know Lelouch is Zero again and that he’s been deceiving Nunnally, but the Emperor notes that his brother is lying again. Lelouch eventually finds V.V. in this room, however the moment the Shinkirou gets close, something similar to what happened on Kaminejima happens again. It transports Lelouch to the Sword of Akasha where his father is waiting, and the Emperor declares to his son that the time has come for redemption.

Preview/Gundam 00 Commercial

CODE GEASS R2   14   Preview 01 CODE GEASS R2   14   Preview 02 CODE GEASS R2   14   Preview 03

In light of the fact that the preview for next week consisted of only a single shot, two of the preview images above are from the new Gundam 00 Series 2 commercial. Looks like Setsuna let his hair grow out a little..

As for this episode, it was surprising at first to see Lelouch let Rolo live even though Rolo outright admitted to killing Shirley. Putting aside the fact that anyone else in that position probably would have retaliated against Rolo, I have my doubts about whether that was the smart thing to do. It made sense that Lelouch wanted to make use of Rolo one last time, but with all the variables in play, the chances of everything happening exactly according to plan were pretty low, and Rolo did indeed survive. I suspect that Rolo will do something later that will make Lelouch regret not killing him when he had the chance.

The other big focus of the episode was on how the Black Knights were massacring everyone and how the members weren’t happy about it. It’s very uncomfortable to see them acting like the people they’re trying to bring down, and all the grumbling about it suggests that there’d be a mutiny of sorts if Zero keeps asking his men to do this kind of stuff. Add to that how Diethard is having Sayoko follow Ougi, and it’s very possible that internal conflict could cause the Black Knights to break up – at the very least it would severely weaken the organization. You’d think that Lelouch would be more cognizant of this sort of stuff, but it seemed like he was too blinded by his quest to destroy the Geass cult.

This episode also gave us more reason to hate Suzaku since it now appears that he’s going to use Refrain on Kallen in order to get her to reveal if she knows the true identity of Zero. It is not a completely unheard of interrogation tactic, but it does strip away any right Suzaku has to the moral high ground. The problem is of course that that’s an integral part of the good side of his character – you may remember that back in episode 13 of the first series, he said that results obtained from doing something the wrong way were meaningless – and that shows how much he’s changed. The more Suzaku subscribes to Lelouch’s way of doing things, the easier it is to prefer Lelouch over him because (for better or worse) at least Lelouch is trying to change the status quo.

Next week will hopefully finally unravel some of the mysteries behind Geass and C.C. since it appears Lelouch and C.C. will enter “The World of C.” Maybe they’ll meet Mao there…

July 13, 2008 at 5:29 am
363 comments »
  • July 15, 2008 at 10:46 pmStorM

    One thing people have to remember while watching this show is that Lelouch is human and like humans he makes mistakes, learns, accepts and adapts. Though at times it’s hard for him to do this and he messes up, his character and goal in life is for the greater good so he cannot stop. For example take what happened to Euphemia. He had agreed to work with her to create a free area for Japan, however, the incident with the geass took place, and Lelouch reacted and improvised in the best way he could so that the end result of the struggle would still be freedom for the Japanese. Lelouch’s character is twisted, but so would anyone other character that was trying to stop a rutheless kingdom bent on controlling the world. I think he deserves a lot more credit than he’s given.

    You’re all attacking Lelouche’s character and blaming him for being immoral and using the organization as a means of tunneling his anger about letting Shirly die. In turn you’re making him sound like “the bad guy”. In the end Lelouch’s goal is the most just in the entire show, creating a country with freedom for all, while everyone else in the show has similar goals, their methods involve innocents losing their freedom, allowing the the tyrant king of Britannia to continue his rule. Example: Suzakus idiotic idea of doing everything through the Britanian Military. Suzaku is worse. How? Well for one he betrayed his country by killing the man who adopted him, his father, who was fighting for Japanese freedom. The emperor would never allow Japan to be free, even if Euphemia tried to save it.

    Lelouch is the main character for a reason, so before he is bashed and judged the situation should be looked at through his perspective.

  • July 15, 2008 at 11:44 pmramiel_salbazier

    EPIC!

  • July 16, 2008 at 3:51 amCurious

    How could have Euphemia become empress? Didn’t she tell Lelouch that she was rescinding her right to the throne?

  • July 16, 2008 at 4:29 amKalessin

    @Curious
    Yes, Euphemia was going to rescind her right to the throne – she wasn’t exactly next in line anyway – but to make some of the changes that she really wanted to make would have required becoming empress since they basically went against her father’s philosophies and policies. Cornelia might have even said that Euphemia would have to be empress to do what she really wanted, but I don’t remember for certain. In either case, it’s clear that truly freeing the Japanese people would require that she become empress.

    It was when she was going to create the Special Region of Japan that she told Lelouch that she was going to give up here titles and any right she had to the throne. Really, It’s quite surprising that she was able to create the Special Region of Japan in the first place. She was probably only allowed to do so because those above her thought that it would put all of the dissidents in one place and make it easier to kill them later.

  • July 16, 2008 at 5:42 amshadowblack

    The SAZ was supported by Shneizel – that’s the only reason it was possible. As shown in ep 21 she spoke to him and he supported the idea, which leads me to believe that she could not do it on her own. And giving up her title and her right to the throne is the price she had to pay for it.

  • July 16, 2008 at 7:04 amorg

    @mystery solver

    thats the second time ive heard someone say that anya is marianne clone. can someone pls tell me why the clone of a blackhaired person would have pink hair???

  • July 16, 2008 at 12:39 pmKalessin

    @org
    Apparently Anya looks a lot like Marianne when she was younger. Of course, that doesn’t necessarily imply cloning or anything of the sort. It’s far more likely that they’re related somehow. But we don’t know and apparently some people like the clone idea. As for the hair, you bring up a good point. Unless her genes were messed with or she dyes her hair, it really wouldn’t work for Anya to be Marianne’s clone. Personally, I think that the clone idea is a bit out there, but I suppose that it’s possible.

  • July 16, 2008 at 2:12 pmWingZero zxt

    my guess is Marriane was being unfaithful which is why the emperor had her Wacked! and Anya is his Step sister

  • July 16, 2008 at 2:44 pmQuikstryke

    @Kalessin
    For clarifications regarding Euphemaia ya cornelia told her she can only acheive her goals as empress. Also this was said when cornelia was kinda scolding her (in the nicest way possible) for acting on her own without consulting anyone about choosing suzaku as a knight. Cornelia also told her she was acting out of line when she made the special region and not to do anything like that again without consent. Im also suprised they allowed it but im guess its to save face since she already announced it publically.

    You can tell the emperor wasnt pleased with it in the cuts scenes to him. Then he starts laughing evilly when lelouch geasses her and the massacre starts. Note the emperor is not sad or upset at what happened to her, infact i think he was pleasantly happy even impressed with what lelouch did.

  • July 16, 2008 at 5:03 pmAndy

    Can you please make some scents here. WHo’s that really the good guys and who’s the bad guys for crying out lound!

  • July 16, 2008 at 5:45 pmbaaaaatmaaaan

    LOL scents

  • July 16, 2008 at 7:14 pmMiki

    this episode was the best so far

  • July 16, 2008 at 8:57 pmQuikstryke

    i just saw ep 5 of season 1 again. seems like the emperor can also talk to the “dead”. In the beginning of the episode he apparently had a conversation with clovis. (it may be how he knew zero was lelouch in the first place). So C.C. isnt exactly the only one capable of it.

  • July 17, 2008 at 1:33 amUngas

    do you think mia will be the next shirley in his(lelouch’s)life? after all she was the first girl to find and manage to hold lelouch’s hat in milly’s graduation event (although was geassed to return the hat)

    btw lelouch can not be accused as the prime suspect of shirley’s death. why? because there’s no evidence to pinpoint its him:

    1. remember before the smoke came out, jeremiah was shot by two police officer(guard), those police officer could be held accounted for because they gave shots(even though their were geassed) without warning hence could be held suspect.

    2. Jeremiah can be suspected too since he looked weird on on his clothes and suddenly came punching the security guards. And after he did that, smoke came out.

    3. Lelouch may be near but not necessarily him. After all why would he kill shirley that he just rescued while crying loud that he does not want to lose anyone anymore? if not for suzaku lelouch might have fallen as well.

    the first two a lot of people saw it. the people might suspected jeremiah for the terrorist in the area and tell suzaku about it.

    but it’s suzaku we’re talking about here on his quest for revenge every little thing lelouch might do is hate-able to him.

    i might add a possibility during the effect on the drug refrain:
    >in the first season when karen saw her mom during the influence of the refrain, she called her mom, and was possibly heard, therefore people during the effect of the said drugs, they can identify the people that was during their happiest moment and hear them.

  • July 17, 2008 at 3:13 amKalessin

    @Ungas
    As I understand it, Mia was a one-shot character which a pop idol played. She was only in episode 12 and won’t be coming back (at least not for a speaking part), so there’s pretty much no way that she’s going to be playing any kind of major part in the rest of the series. Also, from the summaries which we have through episode 17 along with the title for episode 18, it looks like there will be little to no school-related stuff going on any time soon. I suspect that while we’ll see the school and the students at least from time to time, it’s likely that it will primarily be seeing them reacting to the major events that Zero and the OotBK will be instigating rather than seeing Lelouch at school.

    As for Lelouch being the prime suspect for Shirley’s murder, officially it’s a suicide. Only Suzaku suspects Lelouch. However, given that Shirley would never commit suicide and given that Lelouch would have the power to make her commit suicide if he has his memories back, Suzaku believes that Lelouch did it. If you’re trying to find a way for her death to be murder and not suicide, in terms of ability to do it, Lelouch is at the top of the list. Additionally, Suzaku is so focused on Zero and Lelouch that even if he’s totally aware of Rolo’s capabilities, he’s likely to forget him and not consider him as a candidate for her murder. So, in Suzaku’s eyes, Lelouch is the prime suspect and probably the only suspect. He just needs to prove it. And at this point, about all the proof he seems to think that he needs is to know whether Lelouch has his memories back. In either case, there’s no way that Lelouch could ever be convicted for her murder in a court of law unless it’s rigged.

    If Suzaku actually talks to Lelouch however (openly, with Suzaku knowing that Lelouch is Zero), I think that it would be fairly easy for Lelouch to convince Suzaku that he didn’t do it. It’s the Euphemia bit that Suzaku is really going to have a hard time getting over. From the point of view of Suzaku’s character development, the Shirley mess is really just a catalyst for Suzaku to try once again to determine whether Lelouch is Zero.

  • July 18, 2008 at 12:19 amACE

    I was just wondering, has anybody considered that perhaps there might be two emps? I mean, he switches attitudes quite fast, full one eighty degrees.

  • July 18, 2008 at 12:47 amKalessin

    @ACE
    What about what the emperor did was a change of attitude? He seems to be acting the same as always to me. We’re starting to get to the explanations as to why he acts the way he does, but he hasn’t really changed how he acts as far as I can see.

  • July 18, 2008 at 2:15 amRemmell

    So.. anyone else wonder if C.C. was talking with Marianne again in this episode. It’s just interesting how several people seem to be talking to the dead. Like C.C. to Marianne and the Emperor to Clovis. Where are they?I have a theory that Marianne will be seen in the World of C, but I’m starting to doubt that. I just think it will be C.C. who comes to Lelouch’s rescue. I just thought Marianne would be really cool and dramatic.

    I’m wondering if we will get to see Kallen in the next episode or will this new one just be Lelouch in this other world, with no real sign of what’s happening in the outside world.
    If we remember what happened last time Lelouch fell into a similar trap with C.C. once they came out of it they were right back where they originally were. This appears to be more about events happening in their mind.

  • July 18, 2008 at 3:02 amsaris

    Well good job , Suzaku! Even if everyone blames you and go cherish Lulu , I will always be on your side. Man , you should use this kind of method for a long time , I also hope you would be the one to kill Kallen off in the end.

    And to hell with Lulu, I still don’t get why people oh so adore him for what he has done, he is just cold blooded , other than the few ones he love, others are just disposable pigs for him, he is far worse than Suzaku :P.

  • July 18, 2008 at 3:48 amKalessin

    @Remmell
    From reading the summaries for episode 15, I initially thought that Lelouch would be running into Marianne in the World of C. However, after having seen the preview with C.C. standing there with him among C.C.’s memories, I wonder if it’s C.C. and not Marianne. I guess that we’ll have to wait until to actually see it.

    If they don’t show Kallen in the episode, that’ll be pretty mean from a cliffhanger standpoint, but it wouldn’t surprise me entirely if they showed only Lelouch. However, since they don’t normally focus entirely on a single character in an episode, I’m guessing that we’ll see at least a little of Kallen. Again, I guess that we’ll just have to wait and see. There’s really no way to figure it out at this point.

    Also, I wonder if they’re really just in their heads. I think that Lelouch actually went to the Sword of Akasha. It looked like it was probably the Sword of Akasha behind the emperor when he opened the door/gate for V.V. which would imply that it is a physical location and not just in the mind. Also, in season 1, when Lelouch and C.C. were attacked by V.V.’s trap, they primarily saw C.C.’s memories. They didn’t really appear to physically go someplace like Lelouch has this time. It’s certainly possible that it’s all in Lelouch’s head, but it appears more like he was transported this time – which may make it harder for C.C. to get to him.

  • July 18, 2008 at 8:55 amZ

    @Meh

    Simply i’m tired of the “perfect hero with a dark/sad past”, thing that does not happen in CG ;D

  • July 18, 2008 at 9:50 pmMuriel

    Dont worry… there will be Kallen in episode 15, the cast for this episode has been confirmed with Nunally, Suzaku and Kallen…
    Ja ne!!

  • July 18, 2008 at 10:36 pmGeorge

    @saris: so you’re saying that drugs is good? All right, let’s do some pot then an if the police caught you, just say it’s Suzaku’s idea….

  • July 18, 2008 at 11:00 pmGeorge

    and another thing, Suzaku is blaming Lelouch for all the problems in the world…..
    …if you want Suzaku to be the “hero”, fine! Let this be the situation:

    (meeting between Lelouch & Suzaku)
    Suzaku: Lelouch….
    Lelouch: Suzaku…it’s been a while….are you expecting me?
    Suzaku: Yes, i’m expecting you….expecting you to answer my questions…..do you really know Nunnally?
    Lelouch: ………………Yes, she’s my sister…………….and you’re the only one who can protect her……………..
    Suzaku: Yes, I will……..(takes out his gun and shoots Lelouch)
    (Lelouch drops dead)
    Suzaku: I will protect her….from you….

    (Next day)
    (Setting: Sword of Akasha)
    Suzaku: Where is Your Majesty?
    V.V.: Oh, you mean Charles? Well, he’s doing some stuff….Anyway, thank you, Suzaku
    Suzaku: For what?
    V.V.: For killing your best friend. Anyway, it’s for the safety of Nunnally and revenge for Euphy, right?
    Suzaku: Right
    V.V.: Good, now let’s continue the plans now…..ready, Charles?
    Charles (who just arrived): Ready, nii-san….(To Suzaku)….Kururugi Suzaku, I know you want to change the world from within, right?
    Suzaku: Yes, your Majesty…
    Charles: Then, just push the button over there (pointing at the big red button before him)
    Suzaku: Uh…what will it do?
    Charles: Just push the button…anyway, it’s one push and it’s harmless…
    Suzaku: Right…anyway, I’m doing this for Euphy and Nunnally
    (Suzaku pushes button and waits to see what happened)
    V.V.: Hmmm….I think it’s starting…
    Charles, Yes, you’re right
    Suzaku (looking at them, confused): Uh, what’s going on?
    Charles: Kururugi, are you ready?
    Suzaku: Ready for what?
    Charles: Just answer the damn question! Are you ready?
    Suzaku: Yes, your Majesty!
    Charles: Good
    (Charles opens the door and beyond the door, shows the surroundings covered with snow and darkness)
    Suzaku: *o*
    V.V.: Thank you Kururugi for everything
    Suzaku: Wait, are you saying that–that–that—-
    Charles: That’s right, you push the button which cause the Sword of Akasha to kill the gods and start Ragnarok….
    V.V.: Now that the gods are dead, the world is covered in snow and all life will suffer eternal coldness !!!!! (smiles like Joker)
    Suzaku: Th–then, Nu-nunnally and the others are—-????
    V.V.: That’s right (then pushes Suzaku off the door)
    Charles: Anyway, thanks for everything most especially killing Lelouch…and btw, don’t forget to put your jacket on!!! BWAHAHAHA
    Suzaku: Wait—!!!
    V.V.: Bye-bye, Kururugi Suzaku!!!! (then closes door)
    (Suzaku looks around his surroundings, covered in snow and darkness. Then, he screams)

    Note: created by an ideal mind :)

  • July 19, 2008 at 12:18 amGeorge

    HEY GUYS!!!! THE PV OF WORLD END IS HERE!!!!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkL2eKVzasE

  • July 19, 2008 at 3:29 amRemmell

    I would think that if they wanted to kill off Ougi they would of done so with the first season. Seems sadistic to just keep stringing him along like that.
    What confuses me more in Villetta. I would of thought she would be more open to follow Jeremiah’s lead. What can Ougi get her that Jeremiah can’t? I’m guessing that Villetta doesn’t have to report to anyone regularly, since she’s just leaving the country to make her way to see Ougi. That would give away she’s betrayed Britannia. Seeing how she’s suppose to be lelouch’s baby sitter, for lack of a better term. How would this action free herself from the Black Knights control, if that’s what she’s really looking to get? She can’t surprise him that Zero is Britannian. He already knows that.

    Suzaku isn’t teh most efficient person at gathering information. If he’s so suspicious to know if Lelouch is Zero, why not drop the the school and talk with Rolo and Villetta like he’s done before. If Rolo and Lelouch are both missing, then he would of known Lelouch is Zero. That would of been more to the point and he wouldn’t of needed to drug Kallen. His actions are that more like a sadist.

    Should be interesting to see what Cornelia will do now. We still aren’t sure if she remembers who Zero really is. She’s sure to be VERY curious what reason Jeremiah would have. Part of me would like to see her join him in avenging Marianne, but I tend to doubt that. Especially since as Zero he personally killed Euphy. Though we have seen more surprising reactions, like Jeremiah. There’s a chance she might even forgive him if he sucks it up and tells her all the details of how it was an accident.
    Not holding my breath on that one though. I’d just hate for Cornelia to disappear now that she’s back.

  • July 19, 2008 at 3:48 amRemmell

    I’ve heard an idea going around that somehow this whole Suzaku trying to drug Kallen could get turned around on him. They are talking about Kallen and Suzaku struggling and Suzaku accidentally getting injected. She then takes this chance to escape.

    I don’t see that being very likely. Suzaku has bested Kallen in a hand to hand fight before. Though, in her defense she was nude and trying to cover herself with one hand at the time. In this current situation we just need to look at the both of them. Kallen is in a filly dress with exposed skin all over the place. The only exposed flesh of Suzaku is his neck and face. Even in a struggle it seems more likely Kallen will be the one injected.
    Also the tool used to inject the drug doesn’t seem to have a needle. It’s appears more like a hypospray, Star Trek reference. I would think that would be better since that shouldn’t leave such obvious injection marks. It would be easier for a user to hide their addiction.

  • July 19, 2008 at 10:33 amSilentveil

    This is very interesting, but I did get someone to ask me for a defense of Suzaku, so here goes.

    First off, he is not a contradicting himself. He say that to gain peace, you must use peaceful methods and I am pretty sure being duped up with Refrain is a lot better than having your ass beat during interrogation. If it getting off his normal track, that’s yes and a no, because he still wants proof before going after Lelouche. He can feel it that Lelouche is Zero, but unless he has his evidences he won’t touch him. IF he really was such a contradiction …after the Shirley incident he would find Lelouche and simply kick his ass. He would beat him until he felt better, and then put the collar on him so he can’t talk and work him over until he confess.

    He doesn’t do that.

    Though the use of drugs can’t exactly be considered to be peaceful, it’s not a violent method either. In other words, it’s pretty humane considering what he could do to her. Let’s not forget people, Kallan tried to kill Suzaku in season 1, so as far as I am concern she isn’t one to be given mercy at this point.

    Let’s see, other than the haven’t been confirmed Refrain inccident what other times have he contradicted himself?

    WHen he took in Lelouche to his father? Well, you know turning over the prisoner is exactly what he had plan to do from the time his war with Zero started, so he didn’t contradict himself there either. In fact, he didn’t kill zero even when he wanted to. The entire Nunnelly incident, I kind of wonder if he didn’t already know she was alright. I mean V.V did talk to him before hand, and I kind of think he was the one to kidnap her.

    So, tell me really what he that vary so far from his belief so far?

  • July 19, 2008 at 5:00 pmMax

    The only thing that I would love to see is a Milly and Lelouch moment where she finally confronts her feelings to him. That would be a satisfying conclusion to me. The writers have mentioned that she was secretly in love with him. If that is the case, then they should get them together as soon as possible because the suspense is killing me. They have provided a lot of clues that something will happen between them in the future. I have always felt that the only way for Milly and Lelouch to get together is for Shirley to die. I am glad that she is gone. I certainly hope that Milly and Lelouch will finally meet once again.

  • July 19, 2008 at 5:18 pmlester

    so Suzaku is a bastard for trying to get info from that bitch Kallen? If the roles were reversed, she’d probably do worse to him.

  • July 19, 2008 at 6:42 pmKalessin

    The problem with Suzaku isn’t really the nasty stuff he does. The problem is that he keeps saying – some would say preaching – that nothing can be gained by nasty means. While he may think that Zero has a good goal, he condemns him for how he goes about it, using violence and the like. And then Suzaku goes does similar things in Britannia’s name. So, one the one hand he’s saying that doing something is wrong, and then on the other hand, he’s doing it.

    As for the refrain incident in particular, he has previously claimed on a number of occasions that the end does not justify the means. However, in episode 14 when he’s about to use refrain on Kallen, he pretty much outright says that he’ll do anything to find out if Lelouch is Zero. That’s a flat out reversal of stance – whether he realizes it or not.

    As for Kallen treating Suzaku the way he’s treating her, I rather doubt that Kallen would use refrain on Suzaku given the situation with her mother, but she wouldn’t necessarily be nice to him either. He is the enemy after all. The same would likely go for Lelouch. However, neither of them claims that something is wrong and then goes and does it. Suzaku is hypocritical in his actions and that’s the big problem with him.

    Of course, on top of that, he’s being nasty to the main “good guys” in the show, so the fans tend to dislike him as a result. After all, who likes the guy who keeps hurting the people that they’re rooting for? Hence, we get quite a few Suzaku haters – many of whom are quite vocal about it.

  • July 19, 2008 at 6:58 pmKalessin

    As for Ougi and Viletta, from what I’ve read (primarily at http://koshimizu.livejournal.com/3953.html#cutid1 where some interviews – including one with Ougi’s VA – were recently added), it sounds like their romance is supposed to be a classic, tragic romance on some level. It’s not clear whether or not they’ll end up together and happy in the end, but things aren’t necessarily likely to go well in the mean time. I think that Ougi is likely to get in trouble with Diethardt over Viletta when Zero is away – though the fact that Sayoko knows Viletta and knows that Zero knows her may save them both.

    I’m guessing that Viletta decided decided that she wanted to see Ougi. She may or may not be running away from Britannia. I would think that she would be able to return to the school without getting in trouble with Britannia – particularly if no one is really keeping tabs on her. She went to the rally in episode 8 to try and see Ougi and she clearly still has feelings for him, so I think that the main reason that she’s leaving is simply to go see him.

    Now, it may be that she wants to get Ougi to convince Zero to let her free or something. I don’t know. She obviously doesn’t like her current position. She’s turn between her feelings for Ougi and her desire for a good position in Britannia, and Zero stuck himself right between the two, forcing her to do what he wanted. I suppose that ideally – from her point of view – she would somehow end up with Ougi and have a good position in Britannia, but given who and what Ougi is, that doesn’t seem possible. At some point, she’s going to have to choose. Personally, I’m hoping that she chooses to side with Ougi. The fact that Jeremiah currently sides with Lelouch may help her make that choice in Zero’s favor.

    I would think that the Viletta/Ougi situation is a prime candidate for a plot thread that will progress in episode 15 with Lelouch gone since that situation is more likely to actually be a problem if Zero isn’t there. If Zero were there, he could easily defuse it. So, if anything is to come of it other than just putting Viletta and Ougi together (which I don’t see happening just yet, and given the VA interview I mentioned above, I think it fairly certain that it won’t happen without something going wrong first), then it’s probably going to have to happen before Lelouch gets back. And given what’s supposed to be happening in episode 16, I’d expect him back by then.

  • July 19, 2008 at 7:43 pmSilentveil

    That is just it, what nasty stuff do Suzaku do, exactly?

    He goes out of his way to not hurt the innocent, and that is something that is constantly taken advantage of during the series. He actually makes good head way in the military and is actually pretty close to his goal. So, really, is his dream that much of a fairytale?

    Now, the issue with Kellen & Refrain hadn’t even been done yet, so let’s wait to judge. Though to be quite honest, I would lose it too if my best friend killed not only my girlfriend but one of my only friends as well[[his POV]]. Suzaku does make that statement which goes against his belief, but geesh how much lost can you take before you say screw this …give me my gun. The characters in this show are suppose to be depicted as human, so there is a breaking point for everything …including your morals. Lelouche had his, and he tried to inject himself with Refrain. Remember, he did this with his sister being still alive, but no longer waiting on him to make a world for her. She was now in charge of her own destiny which nearlly drove Lelouch mad and Kellen snapped him out of it.

    Now, Suzaku is having his, because to be quite clear …he has lost two people to Lelouche’s one. Seeing that Lelouche killed Eurphie himself, I find it hard to count her in Lelouche’s numbers. THen let’s not forget for that one, Lelouche’s vents his grief by massacing people, while, Suzaku just gets a whole lot more determined to put down Zero especially if he is Lelouche again.

    Finally, if the roles were reverse …I believe that Kellen would definetily do it, especially if Zero asked her. I mean, Zero didn’t tell her to try and kill Suzaku, but, the pressure with the rest of the Black Knights almost meant his death then. I am sorry, but I will say this quite clearly, I feel no pity for her.

    The Suzaku hate, I guess comes for fan worship of Lelouche as it should be, but logically …what is being said makes little sense. I can understand, Lelouche rules and Suzaku drools, but the whole he is a hypocrit thing is getting on my nerves. It’s cool to like your character and to hate others, but it’s not so good when you put false logic behind it.

    My thoughts & my opinion on the whole matter.

  • July 19, 2008 at 10:09 pmKalessin

    @Silentveil
    You know. I think that you have a surprisingly good point. I’ve been trying to think of a time that Suzaku was outright nasty and they tend to be few and far between. On top of that, when he is nasty, he’s doing his job. So, from the point of view of him following his honor – and thus following orders – he’s generally done a good job. There are times when he’s been somewhat nastier that he might need to be – like when he turned in Lelouch – but when he’s ordered to kill soldiers that have declared surrender and things of that variety, he most certainly balks.

    I see two main problems with Suzaku’s behavior in general:

    1. He’s supporting Britannia and while he may not be doing much outright nasty stuff in their name – and sometimes even helps prevent it (like in episode 8 of R2), his actions have helped Britannia become stronger. He’s helped crush the EU and if it weren’t for him, Zero would have likely won ages ago. There would have been fewer deaths and Britannia would have had the chance to screw over fewer people.

    2. Suzaku manages to give the impression of being nasty. On reflection, I think that this is because he’s always trying to stop the OotBK and Zero. He, therefore, causes them quite a lot of trouble and isn’t exactly kind to them. They are his enemies after all. But from the point of view of a fan, seeing Suzaku constantly stop Zero from helping the Japanese be free and doing nasty things to Zero like turn him in to his father to have him memories messed with. For all we know, he expected that Zero would be executed. It would have been a logical assumption. So, because Suzaku is nasty to the “good guys,” he appears to be nasty.

    All in all, I think that it primarily comes down to his actions helping Britannia do evil stuff and preventing Zero and the OotBK stop Britannia, and down to the fact that because he’s doing things against the “good guys,” he appears nasty and evil.

    I i>do think that Suzaku has been making a huge mistake and that his actions have made things far worse rather than better, but overall, he’s avoided killing civilians and the like. Zero’s actions have been far more effective, but innocents have died as a direct result. So, Suzaku is perhaps more honorable, but his results are negative while Zero’s actions are not always honorable, but have been much more positive in terms of achieving the overall goal of otherthrowing Britannia and freeing Japan.

    Still, regardless of how well Suzaku has kept to his stance thus far, saying that he’ll use any means to determine if Lelouch is Zero is definitely going against it. He may or may not choose to use refrain, but it sure looks like he’s going to. And while treating a prisoner nicely may not be a pre-requisite, considering how nasty refrain’s effects are and the fact that it’s illegal, I think that it qualifies as be one of the “despicable” means that Suzaku keeps talking about.

    Suzaku probably gets a lot more flak then he deserves, but however honorable he has been in general, it has only supported the cause of those who invaded his homeland and did so much damage to the lives of the people there who he’s supposedly trying to help.

  • July 19, 2008 at 10:16 pmJ

    I want to cry. Why, why did shirley have to die. This anime is twisted and evil. Kinda like Gundam series. First season when euphemia died (the princess) i gave up on code geass. I then started watching season 2 and I was just getting into it and then this.

  • July 19, 2008 at 10:50 pmL

    @Kalessin
    “Suzaku probably gets a lot more flak then he deserves, but however honorable he has been in general, it has only supported the cause of those who invaded his homeland and did so much damage to the lives of the people there who he’s supposedly trying to help.”

    Spot on, dude.

    @Silentveil
    I hate Suzaku not for his nastiness, but for the supposedly moral high ground he adopts which therefore makes him hypocritical. Lelouch may be a bastard for massacring a whole lot of Geass-users, but he never said that he would not be a bastard from the start. A character can be liked for being delightfully evil, but he cannot be liked for inconsistency and hypocrisy.

    You speak of hatred for Suzaku stemming from worship of Lelouch, which may be true for some fans, but I can equally conceive it being the case that it being possible to dislike the former without liking the latter. Personally, I simply dislike Suzaku not solely because he sold off his best friend, but because of his hypocrisy. Where is the hypocrisy you may ask?

    Firstly, Suzaku thinks that violence is not the way to change a society, and therefore he seeks to change things from within, and therefore he seeks to work for Britannia instead of against. Then he FIGHTS for Britannia in his Lancelot, killing people along the way. In the context of Code Geass, (and definitely not in the real world), I do not think killing people is wrong. But saying you are working against it, and then doing it does not seem too right to me.

    Secondly, he has always advocated that he believes ends achieved through the wrong means is not righteous. Now we just have to look at what he is doing, or rather threatening to do to Kallen. Specifically, look at what he said to justify his acts. Now, again, I do not believe that drugging a POW is wrong (in the world of Code Geass, that is). But to first say what he did, and then to now do what he is saying he would do, is contradictory and therefore hypocritical.

    I do not think I need to raise more examples to illustrate his hypocrisy. I do not dislike Suzaku for his acts directly, but for his acts placed in the background of he having previously used a moral high ground to justify his intentions. To put it simply, if he sold Lelouch off simply as that, without all that moral high ground crap, I would not dislike him, for he was being consistently evil. But to give all that moral justification and then to evolve into the person he is at the moment and do what he did, is something I cannot stand. If that is not being hypocritical, then I do not know what is. And a hypocritical person cannot be honourable. Pseudo-honourable, maybe.

  • July 19, 2008 at 10:56 pmL

    And as much as I like Kallen, I think she is really pretty dumb. She is just like a female jock.

  • July 19, 2008 at 10:56 pmKalessin

    @J
    Twisted and evil? It is true that the main characters aren’t saints, but they at least try to be good guys. If you want evil, go watch Death Note.

    Primarily what you have here is a situation where things don’t always go right and there are tragic side effects to actions with good intentions. It’s certainly sad that Euphemia and Shirley died, but there’s nothing evil about it. It’s most certainly true that if you’re looking for a series where all the good guys survive and even if some things go poorly, you don’t have huge, nasty consequences for the main character’s actions, then Code Geass is most definitely not for you. From what I’ve seen, any show that is aimed at a somewhat older audience – as opposed to the early teens or young kids or whatnot – tends to have things go somewhat poorer for the main characters. Nasty, sad things happen. I think that it’s primarily due to the writer’s looking to make the story more realistic and more dramatic.

    I certainly hope that Code Geass ends up with a happy ending, but I don’t think that I’d call it twisted and evil. It just so happens to be trying to make it so that there are nasty, unintended consequences to the actions of the main characters – Lelouch in particular. The characters have to live and deal with the unintended consequences of their choices. It’s more interesting that way really. It may not be as fun, but it’s more interesting – from a character stand point at least.

  • July 20, 2008 at 1:23 amSilentveil

    Kallesin@

    Thank god, a reasonable person.

    1. It’s true he isn’t making the Britianna forces weaker, but that wasn’t his intention anyway. Because, the more power Britianna has, the more power he has, so instead he is become more and more recognized as an important person in Britianna. This gives him more power to effect decisions and those decision effect Japan as well as other countries. If other follow in his wake, and Suzaku helps them up the ladder …the infiltration can happen so quickly that the people wouldn’t even be aware of the change in government, and the new policies would become common place. Peaceful way of changing the world …a little at a time, and it’s a whole lot more permenent too.

    2.I can understand that point of view, the whole show is based on that. As I said before, I don’t mind the Lelouche fangroup hating Suzaku, but, don’t give me some mess up logic for it.

    L@

    Okay L, first off, his moral high ground’s defect is in your head. He doesn’t believe in changing society through violent means. Keyword is society, the Black Knights isn’t any kind of a society that I know of, but a faction of rebels/terrorist. Second, I don’t see a vow to not kill in that statement, but maybe, if you squint really hard the word society can be change to sociopaths. Thus, in your warp sense of understand he said …he doesn’t believe in changing Sociopaths though violent means, inwhich, case he was definitly wrong for what he did to Lelouche.

    Okay, Suzaku has always advocated that he believes ends achieved through the wrong means is not righteous. You got me on this one, though in his defense, after the death of his girlfriend and one of his only friends to Lelouche, he might have reached his breaking point with that one. Kind of like Lelouche’s desire to fight was kind of shattered by his sister no longer being helplessly depend on him, and he wanted to use refrain, well this is Suzaku’s break down. He has lost two people close to him, three if you count Lelouche, by trying to stick to his principles. He is at the screw it point, but instead of using refrain on himself …he wants to use it on Kallen.

    ^^ Suzaku is so evil!^^

  • July 20, 2008 at 1:27 amAzure

    Suzaku really sucks!He want to use Refrain to Karen!(Spoiler)Lelouch much better than him

  • July 20, 2008 at 1:56 amRemmell

    Before when I was talking about Suzaku being injected with refrain and Kallen using that chance to escape, I wasn’t talking about Kallen using it on purpose. I was talking about Kallen struggling with Suzaku and Suzaku accidentally being injected. I don’t think Kallen would ever knowingly use something like that on another person. She seems to have a total personal hatred for that drug. The mere fact Lelouch had it infuriated her.
    I actually wrote in another forums comparing the characters to the pieces on a chess board. Yes, I enjoy playing chess a lot. My thoughts about Kallen had to do with the rules concerning the pawns. For those that don’t know if a pawn can reach the other end of the board it you can promote the piece into any piece, but the King. Most pick the Queen. I questioned how Kallen started out low in how Lelouch saw her. Before she was just a tool to his plan, but as the story has moved on her, personally, has seemed to mean more to him. Now that Kallen has been deep into enemy hands, could she return as the Queen. He already refers to her openly as “Q-1″.

    Suzaku’s whole character has been a huge ball of hypocrisy. He joins the ‘army’ to prevent death. I’ve always said. If you aren’t willing at some point to fight and kill, then don’t join the army. It’s always disgusted me when I hear people who joined the army complain that they never thought they would have to fight and kill in a war. When you join the army you are being trained to kill. That at any time you could be called to duty. It’s what you signed up for. “Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum”, If you want peace prepare for war. It’s a saying used by the Marines.
    It’s also ironic when you find out that Suzaku’s public reasoning for joining the Britannian army wasn’t what it seemed. Suzaku deep in his heart wants to die. He wants to be punished for what he had one. Point in fact, he would of died many times over if it hadn’t been for Lelouch’s “Survive” Geass. It always seems to kick in when his heart is ready to give up, but the Geass pushes his body to survive.

  • July 20, 2008 at 2:04 amKalessin

    Personally, I don’t think that Suzaku’s methods have any chance of succeeding or in resulting in lasting changes. Britannia has the wrong type of government for it. They have a monarchy – a dictatorship really. Such a system can be highly effective if the King/Emperor is a good man. He can thus use his power to do a lot of good. But if the Emperor is an evil man, he can do a lot of damage and there’s not a lot that anyone can do about it as long as he’s in power.

    Sure, Suzaku can influence some of his peers to be nicer to those they interact with, to make choices that result in less carnage, etc. But he can never make any big changes because the Emperor would never allow it. No matter how many people he gets to agree with him and work with him to make Britannia a better place and a kinder government, unless they get rid of the Emperor, they can’t make lasting changes. He has absolute power within the government. There are no checks or balances of any kind. Unless he’s overthrown, any and all changes made in the government would be small and would last only as long as the Emperor tolerated them. If they went against his rather nasty philosophies, then they aren’t going to stick around.

    Suzaku’s philosophy of “changing things from the inside” might work wonderfully in a democracy, but in a dictatorship, there’s no chance. It might be better than doing nothing at all, but he can’t change things permanently as long as he works within the system. The system itself needs to abolished if lasting changes are going to be made. Think about it. Even if they were to overthrow the Emperor, all it would take would be for the next Emperor or some other Emperor that follows after him to think like the current one does – if not worse – and then things are just as bad as they used to be.

    Suzaku may very well have his honor, but he’s not going to succeed the way he’s been going. Lelouch may not have his honor – from Suzaku’s perspective anyway – but he’s much more likely to make a lasting difference.

  • July 20, 2008 at 2:09 amKalessin

    @Remmell
    I, for one, didn’t think that you meant that Kallen would use refrain on Suzaku on purpose. Regardless of whether she’d treat Suzaku kindly if their roles were reversed, due to the situation with her mother, she hates refrain and I don’t think that she’d ever use it on anyone for any reason. It’s quite possible that she will struggle against Suzaku and he ends up getting injected with it, but if so, it’ll be an accident. In fact, I would expect her to struggle quite a bit, so Suzaku is – at minimum – going to have quite a bit of trouble injecting her. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he’ll inject himself in the struggle, but Kallen won’t take refrain if she can help it.

  • July 20, 2008 at 3:14 amdragon

    That would be a scenario to witness. Kallen resisting Suzaku and Suzaku ends up getting injected with the refrain. This leaves Kallen open to escape – possibly. There is still Nunally who… might let her go. I’m looking at the opening with the red paper crane being set free among the black birds.

    Kallen might also be injected like we’re being led to see. Doing so would open up memories about her past, and present that challenge to Kallen that was referred to in the spoilers.

    On the other hand, Suzaku being injected would cause that punk(i use that term nicely) to reflect back once more on his past and probably nunallys words, euphies words, shirley’s words, and lelouch’s words and he’d be subject to another mind screw.

    Its hard to say what will happen.

  • July 20, 2008 at 3:31 amKalessin

    Obviously it’s not going to happen, but imagine how Suzaku would feel if he accidently injected Nunnally with the refrain. Kallen would likely feel pretty bad too – assuming that it happened due to her struggling (if not, she’d still feel bad for her and probably mad at Suzaku, but she probably wouldn’t feel guilty). That would sure make Suzaku rethink things.

    Of course, like I said, it wouldn’t happen – if nothing else, Nunnally left the room. And I, for one, would rather have Kallen injected than poor, little Nunnally (much as I don’t want Kallen to be injected). But still, it would have an interesting effect on Suzaku. For that matter, just having Nunnally know that Suzaku injected Kallen with refrain might have interesting effects. If Suzaku knew that she knew, then he might feel really bad about it (especially if he didn’t get any useful info from Kallen). And regardless of whether Suzaku knew that she knew, the fact that Nunnally knew that Suzaku had don such a thing to Nunnally might turn her against him on some level – or at last lead her to seek a way to free Kallen rather than simply making her comfortable and chatting with her.

    Also, I wonder what happens if the times that you’re currently living in are your happiest. Does refrain affect you in quite the same way? Given that it’s a drug, I’d expect that something would still happen in such a case, but it would probably be a bit weird. After all, the affected character would probably be talking about current events almost like they normally would, only in a bit of a daze. I doubt that we’ll ever see it though, as interesting as it might be.

    In any case, we’ll likely find out what happens between Suzaku and Kallen soon enough.

  • July 20, 2008 at 3:57 amRemmell

    What I was trying to talk about was how unlikely it would be for Suzaku to be accidentally being injected. Kallen has all that exposed skin, but the only bit on Suzaku is his neck and face. The refrain tool doesn’t seem to use a needle, but more compressed air to get the drug into the system. Just seems highly unlikely he could be accidentally injected.
    I don’t see Nunnally even having the authority to just release Kallen. She was taken in by Schneizel and Suzaku most likely as a prisoner of war, though she’s not being treated as such. It’s one thing to move a prisoner. It’s a whole other matter to release her. She really pushed her authority just by enacting her plan for Japan.
    The only thing I see possible is if Nunnally, with enough authority, sends Kallen back to Zero with a message from her. A, ‘Please, can’t we all just get along.’ kind of deal, or a message to her ‘brother’. The latter is providing that she figured out who Zero really is.
    I have questioned that though. I know it’s implied she has an idea after the events when she was arriving in Japan and was rescued by Suzaku, from Lelouch’s heartfelt cry, “Nunnally!!!”. She seemed to have a reaction that that, but before she had a chance to talk with him more casually. I was always worried the moment he spoke she would figure it out. Though I do know, as Zero, he alters his manner of speech. I would of still thought that she would of figured it out the moment he spoke.

  • July 20, 2008 at 4:02 amRemmell

    I would LOVE for Nunnally to find out what Suzaku either tries or does to Kallen. Nunnally has always been a rather static character She’s either happy or sad. We’ve never seen her upset or angry. I’d like to see her get just a little angry about something. If anything you’d think something of that caliber would be enough.
    I doubt she’ll find out though. Suzaku keeps Nunnally pretty well sheltered. She said herself that Suzaku is the only one she gets to talk to. I feel sorry for her about that. She must be very lonely like that.

  • July 20, 2008 at 4:12 amKalessin

    @Remmell
    I have been somewhat surprised that Lelouch hasn’t been recognized by his voice more – particularly by Nunnally – since it’s not like he uses a voice modulator or somesuch. His voice is different, but not by all that much.

    As for Nunnally releasing Kallen, I don’t believe for a second that she has the authority to simply release her. However, she might be able to find a way to get someone else to help her escape if she thought that Kallen’s situation was bad enough. I have no clue who she’d get to do that since the only 3 people that I recall here even talking to are Suzaku, Anya, and Ms. Rommeier (or whatever her “assisstant”‘s name is), and none of them are likely to help her sneak Kallen out. But I can certainly see Nunnally wanting to find a way to release Kallen.

    As for Suzaku getting accidently injected with the refrain, it is probably a bit unlikely. Kallen’s dress seems to show quite a bit of skin in various areas, so there are plenty of places for her to be injected. However, depending on how the injection mechanism works, it might be able to inject through clothes if they’re not really thick (though as I recall, Suzaku’s Knights uniform is pretty thick). So, I think that you have a very valid point about it being rather difficult – and thus probably unlikely – for Suzaku to get injected by accident.

    The only thing that I can say for sure is that Kallen is not going to allow herself to be injected if she can help it. I find it rather likely that one of the two will be injected unless Suzaku is using it primarily as a threat and Kallen is able to give him some info (other than the fact that Lelouch is Zero) which will placate him enough to not inject her (which I find rather doubtful). There woludn’t be much point in bringing the refrain into the story at this point otherwise.

  • July 20, 2008 at 4:31 amRemmell

    Where could she even get such a chance or persons to help her. Nunnally is pretty much sheltered. Her ‘assistant’ feels to me to be more like an overseer. Someone to keep Nunnally and her gentle ideals in line. I Don’t see what that woan would help in anything unseemly or illegal. She even quotes the laws to the finest details. Also she was the one willing to fire into the crowd of Zeros.
    Let’s also remember that it seems when she gets out she’s taking the Guren with her. I just don’t see them rebuilding the Guren from the ground up, but just upgrading it. That’s a lot to set Kallen free and getting her to the Guren in order to steal it.

    I could see Kallen standing determined of openly offering Suzaku her arm. Sort of a bluff and showing her absolute dedication. A move to say, “Do what you want. You wont get what you are looking for.”. It’s a bluff I almost see Suzaku not buying unless he was just using the refrain as a scare tactic to get her to talk. That also seems unlikely. He seems determined to use that. Otherwise why risk obtaining an illegal drug?

  • July 20, 2008 at 4:35 amUngas

    i think nunnaly heard lelouch voice when the airship blown zero out while lamenting her name loudly – episode 6 last few seconds before the ending theme was shown.

    nunnaly heard lelouch voice and took a deep breath. remember nunnaly is blind due to trauma for a lot years therefore her other senses are better than a normal person. I believe she managed to recognize her older brother’s voice(she took a deep breath to her surprise).

  • July 20, 2008 at 4:47 amMuriel

    Getting back the discussion about Suzaku… what I dont like of him its not his hipocresy, Its more like his naivety or should I see idiocy?? (why?? why clamp made him look like Syaoran, it just makes hate him more difficult) like Kalessin said, you can´t change a dictatorship from within and sweet talking, its naive, and then its an idiotic idea trying to get the truth about Zero using refrain… really which part of makes you remember the good old days he cant understand… He´ll have to listen Kallen talking with someone who he wont know unless she says his name… cleaver Suzaku really cleaver…
    Anyway it´s 3.39 in the morning or 5.39pm Japan time, so I guess some bloggers already know what happened in the world of C and between Suzaku and Kallen, we´ll know in 5 hours more or less… I guess with this comment the discussion of this chap will end??
    Ja ne!!

  • July 20, 2008 at 5:24 amdragon

    Bringing the refrain upfront allows for a kind of reflection or de ja vu all the way back to Kallen’s mother and her ordeal with refrain. Kallen is one of the main characters that are very indirectly involved with refrain. So there would be little room for doubt that Kallen wouldn’t be infected. Still anything can happen. We’ll find out hopefully in a few hours,

  • July 20, 2008 at 5:36 amdragon

    The way Suzaku ‘cares’ for his friends and wants to ch- aaan – ge things from within is just delusional. Suzaku is one of those friends you don’t want to have. They care for you sooooo much <3 and then they hold you so tight they’ll “save” you by killing you and deciding all of your disicions and future for you. He’ll sell you out, lie, threaten, harass, stalk, blackmail, kill, his friends all so he can “save them” and its all “for their own good”. UGH. Honestly, those kinds of friends are often times more like family than friends. And theres a reason friends are separated from family. Wait, Suzaku-friends are probably like enemies more than anything. I wanted to like Suzaku in the first season. Really I couldn’t get over how stupid he was. I thought maybe Lelouch would help him overcome his past and he would turn. Instead, we get Suzaku the zealous !@#$% !@#$#%^ loyal to Britania all for… Japan. All for Japan? Yeah. Right. I’m going to slaughter innocent people, its all for your own good… Wow…

  • July 20, 2008 at 5:42 amKalessin

    @Remmell
    As I said, the only people that I recall Nunnally really talking to (other than Kallen, the one time with Lelouch, the one time with Zero, and her public announcements) are Suzaku, her overseer, and Anya and none of them are likely to help her. What I see as fully possible is Nunnally wanting to find a way to free Kallen. She doesn’t have the authority to do it, so if she was going to make it happen, she’d have to get someone to help her. However, I don’t see anyone being able to help her, so I don’t know how she’d be able to manage it. I bring it up because if she knew about what Suzaku is doing to Kallen, she’d definitely want to free Kallen and would therefore find a way if she could. It is a possible route for Kallen to get free. However, as you rightly point out (and I thought that I clearly pointed out before, but I guess not), she doesn’t really have anyone obvious to help her. It’s just that that’s the only way that I could see her even maybe being able to free Kallen. She certainly can’t do it by ordering it.

  • July 20, 2008 at 9:18 amSilentveil

    Ummm…Dragon@

    I think you are getting Suzaku mixed up with Rolo & Lelouche. Suzaku fights against the terrorist, and really that is who he kills. I really want you to mention a time he killed an innocent throughout the series. I can give you three dozen for Lelouche & two for Rolo.

    As for Suzaku’s stance, let me give you an example:

    If he had been allowed to pilot his knightmare in the beginning …he would had squash the terrorist before they had a chance to go underground. In other words, he would have stopped that truck a whole lot earlier. Thus, there would have been no reason for the command to wipe out all of those people & no excuse for the massacre. If he had been, in the same position as he is in now, he would have been in command. He wouldn’t have even given such an order.

    Now, let’s give lelouche the same power that he has now, do you think that place would have been spared or do you think a battle there still would have broken out & a lot of people would have died?

    THat is kind of why I back Suzaku …I see a real solution in his plan, while, there has to be billions or more blood shed before Lelouche’s plan will even see sunlight.

    Muriel@

    I can take that dislike of him, but, maybe Suzaku wants to force Kallen to remember her good times at the academy & what Zero destroyed. He could just be trying to figure out why she is so loyal to Zero or why she is so set on the rebel by learning more about her past. Then use that to break Kallen down. Okay, I am going to stop there … I am giving Suzaku too much credit.

    He is just pissed off, and, he’s not going to take it anymore.

    Kalessin@

    Umm…Nunnelly could actually set Kallen free.

    She is over the region for pity sake & is a princess, but, she isn’t Nunnelly’s prisoner. SHe is Suzaku’s prisoner, and to be quite frank why go through the trouble to capture an enemy only to set them free a few moments later? If you guys looks at half of what you are saying …all murders would be set free to roam the streets just because you happnen to know them.

    Nunnelly has her part to play as well.

    A peaceful world is a perfect world, and there is no such thing, so there will be grays unless you plan to kill all criminals. Then wouldn’t that be going striaght to black, which is Lelouche’s stance. Being a terrorist, Kallen is actually getting better treatment than she deserve, and that has more to do with her affliation with Suzaku & Nunnelly. That boy does to her, what Zero constantly does to him, He tries to turn her instead of trying to eliminate her.

    [[Spoiler: Oh yeah, Refrain was refrain from use, so now, about Suzaku's princples jump again.]]

  • July 20, 2008 at 9:31 amquixotic

    In slight contrast to the intelligent posts previous..

    I WANT SHIRLEY BACK! FREAKING SADNESS.. =[

  • July 20, 2008 at 11:44 amdragon

    Example is in season 1. Episode 13. Suzaku questions killing innocents. But he still fires. He’s conflicted, but hes right along with the other soldiers firing away.

    Black Knights are not terrorists. They’re called terrorists by Britannia. They’re are a legitimate resistance movement. Kyoto family was also backing them.

    Suzaku wants to save people and change things from within. It would work… Normally. But hes not at the top of the game in code geass. If efforts will prove vain, no matter how noble. He knows nothing about geass, and would continue to be used as a tool/weapon against all resistance. This also includes innocent people. He’s become a hardcore advocate of the ‘greater good’ philosophy. Suzaku himself says that he is a sinner and deserves to die. He’s killed his father. He’s sold out his friends. He’s lied to Nunally. He’s threatening Kallen with refrain. There seems to be no limits with this person anymore. Except his promise with Lelouch to save Nunally and the Japanese..

    Rolo is an assassin. I’m not confusing him with Suzaku. I was throwing in the friend and family talk because I have a friend who wants to be ‘too much of a friend’ and so then he comes too close and then becomes.. family. Its like saying to a friend or someone you greatly respect, “hey don’t worry about it, you’re one of the family now, you’re a “brother/sister” to me. Rolo isn’t even blood to Lelouch. Actually Rolo was forced on to Lelouch and by Rolo’s own will, continues to force himself onto Lelouch.

    In short, Rolo is being too much of a brother while Suzaku is being too much of a friend. So that Suzaku has become Lelouch’s enemy because of it while Rolo has become marked for death.

  • July 20, 2008 at 12:41 pmSilentveil

    Dragon@

    Ummm, those weren’t civilians that he question killing, but a group of Japanense rebels/terrorist whom tried to surrender. Oh, didn’t Lelouche blow them up anyway. Try again.

    Wow, thats funny, the word legitimate and resistance being put in the same sentence together …one behind the other. HOw in the hell do you become a legitimate resistances? You go and sign up with government and ask for a permission to slaughter and kill the government officials as you see fit. Oh, and make sure you get a wavier for any civilians that get caught up in your attacks.

    I am not sure if I should laugh at you or be afraid.

    You gave me one freaky incident, and even those weren’t innocent civilians, and then you talk about friends and family. Geesh, Lelouche should be your postboy for that one, killing off his own siblings. Anyway, Suzaku didn’t sell out his friend, because he did keep Lelouche’s and Nunnelly’s secret at school. You know, because he didn’t want them killed, but Lelouche put himself on the front lines. If you are on the frontlines then you can’t get mad if someone blows your head off. Zero was wanted by the government, and because, Suzaku didn’t let his friend off the hook, he is evil for that.

    Geesh, if I murder your girlfriend and I am your bestfriend, should you let me go free?

    I guess it’s because he asked for a reward that everyone feels he sold his friend out.
    Though, I guess that’s understandable, but really he didn’t have to bring Lelouche back alive at all? I will have to disagree with your feelings on Suzaku’s plan, but I don’t feel like explaining the same thing over and over.

    The friend and family thing could easily be turned around you know.

    Suzaku felt the same way about Zero, and Zero knew who Suzaku was and whom Eurphy was to him. To kill her anyway, to make it a point to target what your brother tried to build up and had been working on, can you truily call that person a brother/friend? To be the knight of the bloody princess automatically made him the white grim reaper, but then again, maybe he did do something in that split between zero’s capture and second season to warrent that name.

  • July 20, 2008 at 2:19 pmshadowblack

    @Silentveil
    I hope you’re not saying that there’s no such thing as “legitimate resistance”? That any sort of resistance is wrong and people have no right to rebel against those that conquered them?

    There’s a difference between a small group of people who commit terrorism and kill innocent people because of their beliefs that hardly anyone supports, and another group of people that have a nation-wide support from many people but are also considered terrorists because the government says so. Can you guess which one is the more “legitimate” resistance?

  • July 20, 2008 at 3:54 pmSilentveil

    Actually shadowblack @

    There is no such thing as “legitimate resistances” does that mean there is nothing to fight against and a reason to resist? No, that’s not true, but to be legitimate means that you must be approved of or recognized by a force greater than you and kind of go along with a trend of there being illegitmate resistance as well. You know, I can’t quite see myself saying don’t join that resistances group, because they are illegitimate and doesn’t have the government seal. ALL RESISTANCES ARE ILLEGITIMATE, or else they wouldn’t be called resistances.

    Really?

    There is a differences between small groups and people with nation wide support that can commit terrorism and kill people, so according to your logic … Lelouche’s group grew from an illegitimate resistances to a legitimate resistances by gaining popularity. The Britianna army now see them as being a better group of terrorist than the smaller ones, and the people they kill are thankful it’s the legitimate group that is killing them instead of the illegimated group. Ah I get your logic now.

    Yes, I am mocking you.

  • July 20, 2008 at 6:00 pmKalessin

    Legitimacy has little do to with a resistance movement. If they win, they make history and thus are praised for it. If they lose, they are condemned as rebels and criminals. Resistance movements are never legal – they’re going against the law of the land by definition – and thus will never be legitimate in the sense that the government declares them legitimate. They can be legitimate in the sense that the majority of the populace supports them and thus they represent the will of the majority of the citizens, but you’re talking about two totally different concepts of legitimate between those two.

    What you have here are two groups that disagree to the point that they are in an armed conflict. The difference between this and normal war is that only one of the two sides is an actual government. The other is a group of people who under the jurisdiction of that government. Legal doesn’t really mean anything in that context. One of the two sides is defining what is “legal” so the other side will – by definition – be illegal.

    Suzaku believes that the system can be changed from the inside – peacefully. Lelouch and the OotBK believe that the system has to go. They want the Britannians gone. And if that’s what you believe than war is inevitable. It’s not like the Britannians are going to decide that they were wrong and leave. If you believe that going against the government in power is always wrong, then Lelouch is in the wrong. If you believe that overthrowing an evil government is okay, then he isn’t. What you have here is two differing viewpoints on how change can and must be achieved. If you want to bring morality into it, you’re really going to have to bring a higher power into it because otherwise it’s always going to be skewed because one of the two sides makes the laws that governs the other.

  • July 20, 2008 at 7:08 pmRemmell

    In many ways I see Japan as the American Colonies of this universe. I’m sure the Colonies were seen as traitors and rebels by the King and others. In that government they were living under they had little rights. Often times they were taxed for the silliest thing all because the king could. They had no say in the matter. It was taxation without representation. The Japanese people want to have the freedom to choose their path. That’s impossible to have while being ruled under an Empire, where the Emperor’s whims are absolute. Even look at the name Lelouch picked, “The UNITED STATES of Japan”.
    Like the saying goes. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. Just as one man’s garbage is another man’s treasure. It’s all in where you stand. Benedict Arnold is seen as a traitor in the US, but in Britain he was seen as a hero of the times.
    In an empire you don’t bring change slowly through the people. You have to change the mind of the Emperor. Any other way could just lead to death. A slow change like that could be called an uprising and crushed as illegal. Not to mention how many innocent Japanese need to suffer and die while they have to wait for Suzaku to change everyone’s mind?

    Lelouch has said the world he wants to make wont discriminate between Japanese or Britannian. It’s about justice and true freedom. It’s the system they are under he rejects, not the people.

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