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「深海の秘密」 (Shinkai no Himitsu)
“Deep Sea Secret”

As Suisei enters its final chapters, things really get rolling as Pinion and Ledo begin their whalesquid hunt. Surprisingly, the whalesquid end up a lot less menacing than expected—only 1/120 of Chamber’s combat prowess—but I guess it’s fitting, because this episode’s not so much about the fighting and Pinion finally getting back here as it is about the revelations behind the Hideazue origins.

Indeed, the first half of the episode—with all those whalesquid larvae getting slaughtered—just reeked of something not feeling quite right, and all really came to a head with Ledo’s initial inability to access the information garnered by Chamber’s translation of various left over artifacts. Admittedly, I was somewhat surprised when Ledo actually overrides the initial rejection of his request, but it’s one of those pleasant surprises to say the least, as the following developments really start changing the landscape…

…because as it turns out, the Hideazue themselves are pretty much human-engineered (and in other ways, seem to be actual humans themselves, merged with characteristics of the Hideazue—or at least, there were such variants made at some point in time). There’s also the confirmation that an ice age occurrence (these cycles do happen in history from time to time due to various factors as a kind of cooling mechanism for the planet) led to the initial exodus and experimentation in the first place. Generally, none of the above ends up being too surprising at all (considering pretty much all of the above was hypothesized by either myself or other commentators), but actually seeing the revelation (especially after the massacre that came before it and the death of that special Hideazue/Human hybrid at the end) did notably gave me some chills regardless.

In the end however, the question ends up being one that, while used frequently as a plot device, is still something that ends up still interesting regardless. That is, the question of what do you do when you’re on the brink of potential extinction. In trying for your solution to salvation, is there a right and wrong if it’s something that ultimately saves your species? Or is it something that’s not worth it if you have to sacrifice everything that makes you human to do it? Sure, achieving the ability to induce artificial evolution is arguably the pinnacle of science, but at what cost does it become not worth it? It’s a philosophical discussion for the ages if I’ve ever seen one and one that really never ceases to arouse my interest no matter how many times I see it. There’s just something innately “human” in the nature of the question, and the fact that I’m a science major myself just adds to the experience for me in this respect too.

Regardless though, we can kind of picture how things have gone on since (at least in the Suisei universe)—which is that theoretically, the two sides have likely never stopped fighting since—and it just goes to show both the magnitude of the issue and of the potential of both sides. Still, if there’s one thing this episode really seems to hammer in for me, it’s that the likelihood that there’s a non-violent solution is higher than ever. I had mentioned this previously as a potential end result, and it definitely seems that the information Ledo has uncovered could really turn the situation around peacefully—again, via the discovery of some kind of means of communication with the Galactic Alliance/Hideazue. I wouldn’t be surprised if the whalesquid themselves have some unique ability to communicate with the Hideazue in space at this point—perhaps via something built into them structurally—and in many ways, it’d be fitting to say the least. Of course, this latter part is wild conjecture, but it’d admittedly set up some pretty nice dynamics if Ledo ends up communicating via the whalesquid and stopping the war that way.

Looking forward, I’m admittedly slightly worried at the fact there’s only a few episodes left… but at the same time, this episode and the amount of information we got this week did speed up the potential time table for a proper resolution quite a bit. Guess we’ll see how things work out.

June 2, 2013 at 5:47 pm
201 comments »
  • June 2, 2013 at 5:53 pmEmD

    It wouldn’t be an Urobuchi anime without mass human genocide in some form.

    Glad to see the Butcher’s still got it.

    • June 2, 2013 at 5:55 pmSolara

      More like Hideazue/Human hybrid genocide. But still a genocide nonetheless.

      • June 2, 2013 at 5:58 pmTaiyo

        I have a feeling that Chamber or Ledo is going to die to make up for the massacre.

      • June 2, 2013 at 6:03 pmFarHorizon

        Sinking feeling that the end is going to be Chamber deactivating deep in the sea & Ledo giving up advanced technology.

      • June 2, 2013 at 6:04 pmSolara

        @Taiyo
        Ledo, it has to be Ledo cause he is human, whereas Chamber isn’t. If Chamber ‘dies’, it would be upsetting, but you don’t grow that attach to robots in animes since the programs can always be transfer. Unless you’re Walle. And then that’s a whole nother story. Just sayin.

        I mean dude I don’t wanna anyone dying. D8 But we’ll see, Butcher is behind this afterall. I’m fine killing Whales since I have no attachment to them. >___>

      • June 2, 2013 at 6:06 pmSolara

        @FarHorizon
        Are you implying a suicidal end where they just kill themselves off!? D8
        Talk about dramatic and here I thought Gotham City needed the hero it deserves in Ledo.

        Base on Ledo’s reaction he may go ape shit next episode cause I honestly don’t know what I would do after that reveal.

      • June 2, 2013 at 6:08 pmFarHorizon

        No, I mean it seems likely that Ledo will integrate into Gargantian society & turn Chamber off to return Gargantia to equilibrium (after some bishie’s get it of course).

      • June 2, 2013 at 6:14 pmSolara

        @FarHorizon
        I had that initial idea in the first episodes when Ledo came to that fleet. That he was going to blend in. Now I think he’s going to do it without Chamber whom may asked “is this really necessary?” Yes. Chamber. It is necessary. ಥ_ಥ

      • June 3, 2013 at 3:57 pmPatrick

        @Farhorizon, I think its a bit too easy for the Butcher. May be he prepare the ending like Amy turns into a squid. :P

    • June 2, 2013 at 10:39 pmc2710

      I thought I prepared my mind and body for it but alas… its not enough.

      Additionally, does the revelation remind you of a certain story of queerats?

      • June 3, 2013 at 12:33 pmJosuFTW

        Omg, Just realized, but still I think this one is deeper, I mean, the queerats were not the enemy until the end, and they were actually the antagonists, here the hideazu were supposed to be the antagonist since the beginning, and now it seems they are not that “anagonistic” at all. (゚´Д`゚)゚

        Sorry 4 my bad english

        I felt urobutcher here, I really felt him ~(>_<~)

  • June 2, 2013 at 5:53 pmSolara

    Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you.. the WHAM episode. ಠ_ಠ

    Oh wow. Only a few episodes left!? Now I’m really interested on how they’re going to wrap this series after that revelation in this episode.

    • June 3, 2013 at 12:16 pmsortedevaras

      Well we all knew something bad was going to happen, mass child murder was a bit more then I expected. I don’t foresee a happy ending.

      • June 3, 2013 at 3:48 pmSolara

        A happy ending from GenButcher? Is that even possible? You are better off guessing from the massacre scale of bad to worst.

    • June 8, 2013 at 11:04 amSingerOfW

      I saw no Holy Sandstorms in this episode.

  • June 2, 2013 at 5:56 pmcyyaw

    keyword: symbiont

    • June 2, 2013 at 10:36 pmasdf1646

      Am I the only one who thought those Evolvers/Hideauze looked really disgusting? I wonder how they came up with that name. Anyways random thoughts aside:

      One thing I really wondered throughout the episode was that when they are babies, they look like an actual human baby enveloped by the exoskelton. And the Child form looks more or less like a human with those long waves of tentacles hanging from their neck. But when they become adults, they change the shape completely. Given that the child form is able to function properly, was there a need to evolve their shape to that extent? I mean wouldn’t taking away our ability to grasp with our hands a counter-evolving process? The reason I mentioned this is that I read somewhere that our dexterity with hands was one of our strongest evolving point for humans. If it wasn’t for their need to evolve in space, i would have thought that altering one’s DNA to be aquaman or sth like that would be better lol. Also it seems unrealistic that sth that has lost its hardness can withstand the space and its pressure. And another thing that really bugged me is that their final form on earth and on space has tentacles hanging down from their waist but if you look closely, they are hanging upside down. The body is literally standing on its head and not on its lower part of its human body. So the face has changed into a mean looking evil hole with teeth that looks like one’s bottom. I found this strange..I wonder if anyone thought of this as well.

      For the info, I love Production I.G. and this show, it really got me drawn in and captivated, can’t believe they are only doing 13 eps…

      Sorry for the randomness of my comment;;;

      • June 2, 2013 at 10:42 pmc2710

        Highly doubt your comment is random.

        The life cycle of the Hideauze truly reminds me of ascidian life cycle. The larva looks totally different from the adult and on a side note…. ascidians are the closest invertebrate that’s related to us humans.

        So no surprise there. Though the Hideauze life cycle seems like a mix of cnidarian and ascidian life cycle

      • June 3, 2013 at 3:54 amAciel

        Now we know why the Galactic Alliance calls them Hideauze.

        Because Hideauze = Hideous. Hideous Humans. The Galactic Alliance sees them as Hideous Humans.

      • June 3, 2013 at 8:48 amT-Man

        Or we are confusing Hideazue symbiont and the Hideazue/Human hybrid?

        Note during the attack when he is attacking the mother whalesquid, He is first attacked by what appear to be small baby whalesquids which is about the same mass as the Hideazue/Human hybrid at the end which argues separate entity type.

        Also back a few episodes when Ledo sees the cooked octopus he immediately identifies it as Hideazue, which looks like the Hideazue/Human hybrid’s head.

        I believe they (creators/writers of anime) sandbag us by not having a scene with the true Hideazue until this epi. which is Hideazue/Human hybrid.

      • June 3, 2013 at 9:53 amLibelula

        Haha, well there is absolutely no “pressure” in space;) I dont think you would be ripped apart by the vacuum, but Im no specialist there. And also – squids etc. are cephalopods – with kephale (gr)= head + pos (gr)= food (plural podes). The name already says that the “feed” of these animals are right at their head. So I wouldnt worry much about the anatomy of these things;)

      • June 3, 2013 at 1:47 pmVoyager

        @Libelula
        I think you just confused “foot” with “food” while looking for the etymology of the name, as “cephalopod” is composed by the greek words for head and foot (pous, podos = foot), since they have “feet” attached directly to the head.

      • June 3, 2013 at 1:53 pmLibelula

        @Voyager
        Yes, I corrected myself already -see down below;) Food, foot isnt it almost the same? XD

      • June 3, 2013 at 2:45 pmVoyager

        @Libelula
        oh my, sorry mate, didn’t see it! you know how it goes, when you see the opportunity to be an asshole and show off your little useless knowledge, you DON’T go on reading ;)

    • June 3, 2013 at 10:37 amLibelula

      Oh boy, yes, the fooD is at their head…how convenient would that be? I meant fooT (and feeT) of course XD

      • June 3, 2013 at 2:34 pmVoyager

        Oh, and since I’ve activated the full nerd mode :( I feel the irresistible need to tell you that you are right about the pressure in the space, you would NOT be ripped apart. It just happens that a lot of people think the contrary.

        The skin and body structure are hard enough to sustain the internal pressure, and your blood will NOT boil. Provided that you didn’t try to hold your breath (that could damage your lungs) and you could return into a pressurized environment before you pass out for the lack of oxygen (that would happen after about 15 seconds) you will survive without permanent injuries. Even if you pass out, if you are rescued within one minute or two, you may still survive. More info at the NASA site :)

        Regarding the Hideauze, nothing forbids having a flexible body to survive in the space. There’s no need for hardness, all that is required is the ability to contain the internal pressure, that is not too high for a human btw (moreover, our blood pressure adapts itself). Simple rubber can do that, and space suits are not hard either.

        (guys, this show is amazing. truly enjoying it)

  • June 2, 2013 at 5:57 pmBaronMunchausen

    Well shit….there’s a good reason to not kill whalesquids.

    • June 2, 2013 at 10:08 pmT-Man

      Well at lest the ones on Earth.

      It seems like the Galactic Alliance/Continental Union and the Hideauze/Evolver made their beds. They went to war from the start with each other then abandoned the rest of humanity on Earth be it Amy’s people or the Whalesquid’s by take the resources to go deep space and blowing up the only route out.

      I think we should consider Hideauze/Whalesquid another nation/tribe. They had more then enough time and biotech to more then wipe out the rest of “normal” humanity. Their thus far relative peaceful coexistence is by choice. Their killing of Pinion’s brother while unfortunate is understandable. I would not react well to strange human in my baby’s nursery (shoot to kill) let alone if it looked like an alien life form.

      It is also possible that the Earth Hideauze/Whalesquid and possibly some members of regular humanity may have done something together to fix the ice age. Just my guess lets see how it pans out.

      • June 3, 2013 at 11:03 amGeoff

        Why shoot to kill? Why not just wrap your tenticals around the intruder, and drag him out of your home? Then throw him out. Maybe break the armor and chuck the center pod back to the surface. Perfect message.

        You come down here, we’ll hit you hard where it hurts: Your wallet.

  • June 2, 2013 at 5:59 pmzztop

    • June 2, 2013 at 9:21 pmJoybot

      LoL I am sure the Galactic Alliance would not call them Hideaz if they looked more like her :P

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:02 pmEspada

    you can’t stop the healing

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:06 pmUnknownVoice

    This was such a brilliant episode.

    And yeah. Human Humans did perform genocide – the whole war, it seems, was started BY them, because of their inability to accept the beliefs and cultural differences of the Hideauze-Humans.

    I see no happy ending from this show, actually.

    Actually the most likely situation I can see for finale is Ledo and Gargantia people having to find a way to take down Chamber(they focused A LOT on how unbeatable by current tech level Chamber is for it to not be a plot point)

    • June 2, 2013 at 8:33 pmReddyRedWolf

      Well the Evolvers are Transhumanist assholes too.

      Since they’ve abandoned all technology they can’t leave the Earth. They just steal Continental Alliance’s wormhole drive to conquer space.

      Thus we have the conflict. The Galactic Human Alliance expands to find a new homeworld. The Hideauze keep following them as their vector of expansion is taking away the wormhole drives.

      Transhumanists view Humans as inferior. Purists view Transhumanists as abominations.

      You know what is worse? Symbionts has taken over that they are no longer humans. Artificial Intelligence has taken over to ensure human purity.

      • June 2, 2013 at 8:53 pma20020000

        Technically the evolutionists are contradicting themselves in their own propaganda video as they wouldn’t need to use the wormhole drive if they can survive in space without a care in the world for time or radiation. Why chase the party that supposedly started a war with you when your entire supposed advantage is not caring about the long times required for slow interstellar travel, seems fishy.

        Also if you can make wormholes and create nanomachines you would think stopping an ice age would be pretty easy. (Ironically we in real life probably already unwittingly stopped any ice age from happening just by pumping a ton of CO2 out although if we don’t figure it out we could easily go the other way which is also unpleasant)

      • June 3, 2013 at 2:43 amUnknownVoice

        Its not really a contradiction – The Alliance’s transportation method ensures that by the time Evolvers arrive to their destination, the place would be already populated by Alliance forces. The only way for them to be kept in the game so to say and not be left in earth as in concentration camp as the same kind of expansionist policy.

      • June 3, 2013 at 3:24 pmEliteF22

        Yeah, but what damage would stopping a natural ice age have done? Natural climate cycles serve purposes and Earth would probably not be as habitable today if it didn’t have them.

    • June 12, 2013 at 3:46 pmwise

      thats the issue with scifis where super advanced civilizations just go extinct because nature decided to wipe them out. shows like stargate, assassin’s creed and etc are just full of plot hole.

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:07 pmFarHorizon

    Finally a superb episode that has good action, tons of plot-fu, suprise reveals & a shocking conclusion.

    I hope they can keep this intensity up for the final 3 episodes ..

    I’m fully expecting the final meaningful conflict to be Ledo trying to control Chamber & somehow get him to come to grips with earth’s situation.

    • June 2, 2013 at 6:20 pmjhpace1

      I hope Ledo doesn’t have to shut down Chamber. Chamber’s shown some of the centralized control/totalitarian thought processes, but Ledo should be able to override those, in time. Just like with the classified material found.

      • June 2, 2013 at 6:29 pmFarHorizon

        That’s my hope as well – it just seems like part of theme so far, has been that Gargantia is happy the way it is.

        The ones who want technogoly, progress & treasures have been given dark motives, like Pinion.

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:16 pmjhpace1

    I liked this episode. Humans using combined advanced/primitive tactics against the whalesquid.

    Ledo/Chamber’s revelation that the whalesquid/Hideazue are genengineered humans? The fans suspected as much. It makes for the Galactic Human Alliance – Hideazue war to be the war of the Spacers vs the Evolvers. And it doesn’t change anything. It was the Evolvers who started the war by sabotaging and attacking the space launch platform, even though the Spacers were going to blow up the first worhmhole mechanism after they left Earth. The Evolvers were just as greedy, trying to use the wormhole to expand themselves into the galaxy at the cost of the other people on Earth.

    I think Ledo/Chamber will try to communicate with the Hideazue only to find that they have left their humanity behind, and are now as alien as they appear. Humans (both on Earth and in the GHA) have to protect themselves from the encroaching Hideazue. The whalesquid/Hideazue have feral instincts now, instead of humanlike behavior. The only catch is, how engrained with Earth’s ecosystem is the whalesquid and the nanotech lightbugs? Is Gargantia and all other floating ship fleets now dependent upon the lightbugs, and therefore, the whalesquid/Hideazue?

    • June 2, 2013 at 6:46 pmagr0n

      I’m also wondering if the whalesquid have some sort of connection to the lightbugs. If they do since Ledo killed a whole nest will the lightbugs and Gargantia’s source of power disappear aswell?

      • June 2, 2013 at 8:57 pma20020000

        According to the news video the nanomachines where supposed to be inside the whale-squid things but it seems like something leaked out and they just multiplied on their own in the ocean it seems. Or maybe the whalesquids eat the nanomachine light bugs like a screwy form of plankton which technically puts the two groups in competition for the same resource of electrical nanomachine plankton equivalents.

      • June 3, 2013 at 8:55 amT-Man

        Or quite possibly it’s the Whalesquids “crop”. We know they are some form of self assembling super solar collector.

        It would make sense for the whalesquids to spread them out in the ocean as far and wide as possible as well collect and renew the nanomachines by providing either raw materials for them to assemble bigger galaxies or self repair.

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:18 pmRenegade_Saber

    My reaction to the revelation in this episode is this: SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:25 pmImperialX

    I thought this was going to be a healing show!

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:30 pmJust A Random Guy

    So the setting of the universe is some what like Gundam Seed where there are the ones who would take the risk of enhancing their own body to achieve some sort of biological evolution, while there are the ones who chooses the path of technological advancement.

    Though I must say, the setting of this story is much more well presented than any other anime who has taken a similar setting. For example, just like what happened in the past, the Hideazue never meant to attack other life forms, only when they are being engaged, then they would retaliate, as seen in the earlier episodes when a large swarm of Hideazue swam pass Gargantia and when the Alliance attack the Hideazue. The set up of the races is superb. Unlike what most anime, or even stories in general, where it’s very obvious the writers want you to take sides on by glorifying the other, the creators have presented each side with equal reasons.

    Even with almost all of the mystery solved, the real real mystery remains…HOW THE HELL DOES CHAMBER RECHARGE ITS ENERGY.

    So I guess the Hideazue…
    (•_•)
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    (⌐■_■)
    Aren’t so Hideous after all..

    Hue hue hue hue…

    • June 2, 2013 at 6:32 pmZephyr

      Energy seems to be from some kind of internal reactor/power source that’s self-sustaining for the most part… though yeah, there aren’t any specifics though. Meh.

      • June 2, 2013 at 6:38 pmJust A Random Guy

        Haha, honestly, sometimes I wonder what the purpose of the pilot really is!

      • June 2, 2013 at 6:47 pmZephyr

        Haha. Well, that one’s probably the easiest to answer: there are just somethings that only a human can do/solve. :P

        Side Note:
        The Yukikaze sci-fi novel series really goes in depth into this idea/concept if you’re into reading stuff relating to this.

      • June 2, 2013 at 10:12 pmT-Man

        there was techno mumble about exotic matter in the first episode. :)

    • June 2, 2013 at 6:47 pmagr0n

      I’m guessing Chamber uses solar panels or maybe he will run out of power in the future.

      • June 2, 2013 at 7:39 pmjhpace1

        I think you’re selling Machine Calibers short if you think they are solar-powered. What about compact free energy sources, micro antimatter sources, cold fusion, etc? Chamber survived 6 months after being shot out of the wormhole in episode 1. I think when Chamber says “Resources are at 53%”, he means capacitors, not the power generation. It might take a long time to regenerate the power to 100%, but it doesn’t mean Chamber is going to run out of power anytime soon.

    • June 2, 2013 at 8:24 pmJust A Random Guy

      I’d also like to point out an interesting point of the Hideazue and the Alliance. Both ‘race’ have the same goal; for the survival of the human race. However, the Hideazue chose to change physically to adapt to the environment, while the Alliance chose to mentally change (e.g hiding the truth and brainwashing the youth) to adapt as well. When the two ideologies clash, the back and forth struggle has caused both sides to loss sight of what the real purpose of moving to space was.

      Which brings me to my next point of what Gargantia is for. It’s a symbol of survival through (though quite cliche) understanding and harmony. The people on Earth have survived the problem that their ancestors foresaw, and has learn to live in harmony, not just with themselves, but with nature itself, in order to survive.

      The settings and ideas are really for the lack of words, cliche, but at the same time, the message and purpose of this anime is so genuine that it feels down to earth to watch. At this point, I believe the message has been delivered to the fans, what remains are the actual story itself, which I am still greatly looking forward to!

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:39 pmcyyaw

    the hideazue on earth, are vessels, they need a human to achieve their function

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:43 pmagr0n

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but what I understood is that the evolvers used whalesquid dna to change themselves and adapt to space life while the people against the evolvers also left Earth to kill the evolvers which are now the Hideauze and Ledo is part of the non-evolver group. Now my question is are the whalesquid the evolved humans or just the animals that humans used their dna to evolve with (except for the obvious hybrid Chamber killed at the end)? Either way its creepy and scary as hell genetic manipulation just sends chills down my spine.

    I’m definitely going to have nightmares about Chamber showing and killing the squid girl from the anime Squid girl o_O

    • June 2, 2013 at 7:20 pmShadow74

      The hideazu they are living beings created from human DNA. At first they were genetically mutated humans, but now the current hideazu are a new species because they are not born as normal human beings (genetically speaking).

      In the Earth squid-whale were created with human DNA. They are human hybrids with squid for genetic manipulation. But only in their larval stage have a human appearance, after mature as squid.

      Not sure with squid humanoid, but I guess it’s their latest advancement in human-squid hybridization of the evolutionists before leaving earth and mutate themselves.

    • June 2, 2013 at 7:32 pmSanSan

      I don’t think the space immigrants left Earth in order to kill Evolvers. My impression was that both parties left around the same time due to global cooling. What caused problems was that the anti-Evolver sentiment, and the fact that the Evolvers wanted to take advantage of the wormhole created by humans didn’t help matters either.

      As for the whalesquids on Earth, they might be a mixture of both that you mentioned… I really don’t know.

  • June 2, 2013 at 6:46 pmbillng

    Well that came out of nowhere. Urobochi does it again!

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:03 pmShadow74

    In my own opinion, the choice of the scientists was wrong. Because his research created a conflict on two sides separated mankind when it should be attached. War emerged. His research was not for the good of humanity, because they ended off the Earth, leaving the rest of humanity and created a new species that threaten humans in space. At the end there was no benefit to humanity and only indulged his ambitions to continue their research and reach their own desires.

    The hideazu not human. They were created from human DNA, they are living beings, most probably are intelligent and possess consciousness. But they no longer have humanoid bodies, they can not talk like humans, they can not build tools or perform any other human ability. They are exactly squid, but mainly feeding on energy. Threaten technological advancement of mankind.

    • June 2, 2013 at 7:12 pmcyyaw

      the hideazue is like a bio-suit, the human and the hideazue are symbionts, the hideazue allow the human to live in the vaccum, so i guess is possible separate the human from the hideazue

      • June 2, 2013 at 7:42 pmShadow74

        After centuries that evolutionists leave Earth to continue their experiments, is difficult for me to think they are still completely human.

      • June 2, 2013 at 8:28 pmMegas

        It was probably like a bio-suit at first but it has clearly evolved in space. The thing the Chamber crushed at the end was exactly the same type as Elaine Matsumoto portrayed in the video. It still appeared to have a human frame. It’s easy to conclude that most of the whalesquids & human hybrids on Earth are still at the base that that were at when the Evolers left, but they’re clearly mostly whalesquid. They do live with them.

        Now the crazy evolved hideauze Ledo fought in space are a result from Ryan Matsumoto. He was probably still evolving & was the same creature that wanted to take the wormhole device. We don’t even know how long those things can live. He’s probably still fighting as one of those huge creatures – or better yet leading all of them.

        You can hardly call something like that human anymore.

      • June 2, 2013 at 10:18 pmT-Man

        Hummm, This raises an interesting point. What if they are still converting humans into hybrids? The symbiont is still alive and genetically relative unchanged. So what if everyone who disappears in the mist area is being converted?

        Hummm… what if Pinion and Ledo just killed Pinion’s brother?

    • June 2, 2013 at 7:24 pmrising7

      I think over time the symbionts and the humans they bonded with became one in the same being. The baby Hideauze seem to indicate this.
      I like the showing of how far the Evolvers were willing to go to modify themselves and the interesting questions it raises. This conflict is possibly too big to solve by the end of the series, so I imagine the end to be pared down to more of a hopeful possibility-filled future type deal. I will be impressed if my expectations are defied without detriment to pacing.

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:12 pm†Croos†

    GENBUTCHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Amy is next! Y_Y
    Amy also carries Ika-musume’s voice

    • June 2, 2013 at 11:52 pmAngelus

      Amy’s VA is the same as Ika Musume? AAAAAAAARGH, the plot twist was actually there all along hiding in plain sight and I didn’t notice.

    • June 3, 2013 at 4:08 amDangerism

      All this time… Amy was the invader from the sea?!? Why didn’t I realise that sooner, would’ve foreseen the plot-twist earlier then. XO

    • June 3, 2013 at 8:24 am†Croos†

      THE MAIN REASON WHY LEDO WAS SHOCK WHEN HE FINISH THE VIDEO
      Gif here

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:21 pmzztop

    Noooooo they killed Ika Musume!!

    • June 2, 2013 at 8:51 pmjunglepenguin

      You just had to say it. Take responsibility when photoshopped gifs of Ika-chan meeting and being minced by Chamber get plastered all over the internet.

      • June 3, 2013 at 5:26 amGiorno Giovanna

        ITS TOO LATE! LET THE IKA MUSUME AND CHAMBER INTERACTIONS BEGIN!
        http://i.imgur.com/1d3e5PG.jpg

      • June 4, 2013 at 1:05 amflamerounin

        oh god why?!

        what horror have you unleashed?!

        ika musume, noooooo!

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:23 pmM4rc0s

    the people in this discussion have a idea that hideazue is evolution but this is wrong for what i understand the hideazue is a animal like any other ,the human’s used the hideazue DNA (because he can survive in places with high pression) and adapted the genoma together with nanotech to manage to live in space or simply a ecosystem of high pression/cold etc(space).
    like we and monkeys have a few parentage genetic, we are a different specie from monkeys just like the hideazu from earth is different from the hideazu from space . from the sub that i watched they use the name “envolver” like a new specie born from human DNA together with hideazue DNA.
    we can think that just like in the first episode, Chamber told us they have a theory that humans was born in a planet called earth , but a theory is just a theory they don’t know that this is true, we can assume the knowledge that the “envolver” was a human was lost sometime in they journey.
    this is my opnion and if anyone was offended , i’m sorry.(sorry about the english too i’m self learning and is really hard to write since i dont have anyone to teach me.)

    • June 2, 2013 at 7:52 pmGoXDS

      Just to correct a few things, Earth and space Hideauze are genetically identical. They only differ in expression of different genes, just like how the same species can look very different. Also, while Earth becoming theoretical could happen after a couple centuries, because Earth hardly matters, relatively speaking, the information on the Hideauze is more likely still known in the upper echelons but jut censored, hence the classified info.

      • June 2, 2013 at 8:29 pmM4rc0s

        you may be right but if i’m remember was 99.x% not 100% and i really believe that no one even the upper echelons may know because if they really know the dialogue between ledo and Chamber about earth be just a theory not make sense, if they know the truth they also know the earth is real and the objetive of the entire fleet is to find a new planet not fight the hideazue ,if they really know about earth they only need come back and left the Evolver in space. we see in the first episode that GHA can use the “wormhole technology” to fight so i’m sure they can also use to come to earth but your theory is also a good one maybe the entire war the GHA is making is just a false war ,remember the flashback ledo have about his brother that looks like him? maybe is a clone and the entire war soldier is clones and more clones just to control the “evolver” advance and they are just living a perfect life in space.

    • June 2, 2013 at 7:53 pmShadow74

      Do not worry, practice writing in English takes time. I also I have problems writing in English.
      I also agree with many points in your comment. This is not evolution, hideazu and squid-whale are new species.

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:41 pmflamerounin

    UROOOOOBUTCHEEEEEEER!!!!

    damn, why does that human-hideauze hybrid have to be so… …cute (moe even)? :(

    that scene where chamber kills the hybrid, with ledo frantically trying to stop him kinda reminds me of evangelion (the part where shinji fights unit-03 and the other one where when kaworu died).

    well, that one was already forthcoming, but still the reveal has quite an impact (to me at least). i doubt that ledo would be able to relay this info to the galactic alliance (considering the distance). i also doubt that the hideauze-GA war would be ended in the finale, but i am sure that ledo will surely learn a hard life lesson (and will probably decide to stay with gargantia and return to amy).

    • June 2, 2013 at 9:17 pminanis

      yeh i totally had flashbacks to unit 01 crushing 03′s plug when i saw that scene ..lol

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:45 pmjhpace1

    Nobody’s mentioned that Ledo now has a problem. If the Galactic Human Alliance that’s 65,000 light-years away does find Earth, Ledo has accessed classified material. That puts him on the “has an accident” list, if the GHA ever finds him.

    Nothing makes totalitarians more money than war. An eternal war in space means endless profits and advancement.

    • June 2, 2013 at 8:42 pma20020000

      Given that they never checked back on earth means the wormhole corridor they both used to escape likely did self destruct and they probably lost the route back. 65000 light years and a lack of a good reason to return makes the return trip unlikely. Also in 65000 years when they get the distress message everyone will be long dead many times over and they ironically could return to see an ice or dead planet.

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:49 pmTokiko Taichou

    And that baby Hideazue that looked like human fetuses! D: that was just so wrong…

    • June 2, 2013 at 10:23 pmT-Man

      I think thats what gave Ledo the edge later to over ride Chamber. He had a growing suspicion. You could see it in his eyes when he wiped out that Nursery.

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:51 pmbakakubi

    Many of us saw this coming, but just because we know what’s going to happen didn’t make this episode any less enjoyable. The execution was superb! The baby Hideazues, the robotic reactions of Chamber vs that of Ledo’s. Just a powerful episode overall. Love this series even more now.

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:52 pmvrr4141

    There is a part in the secret record that explain the Evolver no longer need nutrition or even oxygen taken from outside (by breathing and eating) because they have nano technology (robots?) inside their body that can self generate nutrition and oxygen for them.
    I think the light bugs are those nano bots.

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:56 pmfrubam

    When I heard Bevel playing the flute at the end, I thought of an ending where Amy would end up as a Hideauze/human hybrid, and Ledo would finally decide to co-exist with his lifetime enemy. That would be a very bittersweet ending…

    • June 2, 2013 at 11:58 pmAngelus

      When I saw the Hideauze-tooth flute playing, I had a rather more chilling thought, which was baby Hideauze playing games with human teeth…

  • June 2, 2013 at 7:58 pmhwighting

    finally ledo gets to beat some hideauze ass without all those people telling him they’re sacred and all that bs. pretty happy about it at first if just to say up yours gargantians. and then the shocker at the end throw me for a loop. teehee.

  • June 2, 2013 at 8:01 pmmianghuei

    This week’s episode: Revelations!!

    http://i.imgur.com/R1zpc2m.jpg

    Is that girl Amy????

    • June 2, 2013 at 9:41 pmPerlaNemesis

      Though they look alike, there’s no way that’s Amy.

      • June 3, 2013 at 12:06 amTaiyo

        That’s Elaine Matsumoto who was shown as a humanoid hideauze at the end.

  • June 2, 2013 at 8:03 pmGuardian Enzo

    Any fan of pre-reboot Doctor Who will see lots of “Genesis of the Daleks” Kaled vs. Thal similarities here. Basically, this setup is now the Daleks vs. the Committee of 300.

    As for endings, I wonder if Ledo’s ultimate task now may be to protect Earth from the “future” by preventing the humans and whalsequid from being drawn into the endless war in space.

  • June 2, 2013 at 8:25 pmJoybot

    Suddenly while reading and watching the anime, I realize could that the daughter of matsumoto’s [Hideaz Leader] is somewhat resembling Amy.
    Just a wild guess maybe Amy, the supposed female protagonist has also an important role for the incoming peace making between the two warring faction in space… [Forgive my poor English]

    • June 2, 2013 at 8:27 pmJoybot

      We can see her at 18:26 of the anime with her mom as she bid her goodbye to her father which is the supposed leader of Hideaz?

      • June 2, 2013 at 8:41 pmM4rc0s

        if the earth have the technology to put a kid to sleep for thousand of years (just remember the earth was in a frozen state that was the reason they left earth) and bring they back to the current time dont make sense the entire concept of technology that we saw in gargatian. and the child is the hybrid hideazue/human that Chamber killed in end . just see the report/flashback they have the same second name, matsumoto.

    • June 2, 2013 at 8:35 pmRickyMack

      she’s gonna squidvolve like… 00 spoilers Show Spoiler ▼

      • June 2, 2013 at 8:52 pmJoybot

        Certainly hope that this anime has a second season like 00 Gundam did, it seemed to me that the loop of the story has become more widen and its kind of hard to close it with just a few episodes left. Well, for me that is…

        Off topic: Aeolia in 00 would hate to see technologies miss used for destruction and that is what all happening in this anime LoL! We need communication and understanding :)

      • June 3, 2013 at 12:07 amTaiyo

        It seems we will need to perform multiple armed interventions.

    • June 2, 2013 at 11:22 pmos

      but then, who is Elaine Matsumoto, the hybrid at the end of the video?

  • June 2, 2013 at 8:29 pmsonicsenryaku

    In the words of M. Night Shamaylan: “WHAT A TWEEST!!”. Seriously, I had the weirdest realization as soon as i hit the play button to start the episode that the whalesquid were scientifically engineered by humans and that if it was possible for them to do that, then what would stop them from doing it to themselves?” SO when Ledo found that convenient piece of footage regarding the history of mankind during the coming of the ice age and there was disagreement between evolutionist and for a lack of better term, Purists, that was the nail in the coffin that convinced me of the true nature of the hideauze. It seems that the terror of the hideuze is really just an ongoing war between the evolutionists and the purist. On a side note, anyone notice that little girl with the uncanny resemblance to Amy? Ancestor perhaps?

  • June 2, 2013 at 8:47 pmjunglepenguin

    Am I the only person here that didn’t like that twist? I mean the whole episode was masterfully put together, but… Eh, that Human/Hideauze hybrid thing is one big leap into outlandish territory. I’m not too sure what to make of it.

    • June 2, 2013 at 9:01 pmJoybot

      Hi, not sure if I read correctly.

      Isn’t that is why Galactic Alliance attacked Hideaz? That they feel it as an outrageous creation/combination?

      Though it is hard to imagine the two sides would eventually enter a seize fire agreement easily and so soon just by Ledo’s effort…

    • June 2, 2013 at 9:11 pmFarHorizon

      It is a big leap & it seems a little jarring after all the slice of life episodes, to suddenly go deep SF & human experimentation. But at the same time, we’ve (at least some of us) been wanting a butcher surprise & the series to turn more SF. I’ll take this :)

      • June 3, 2013 at 10:27 amMgMaster

        It’s a bit of a shame it didn’t come around 1,maybe 2 episodes earlier though.Feels like they overdid it with the “fun times on Gargantia” episodes but ESPECIALLY with the Fleet Commander’s funeral,a character whom we never really saw much of to really care about,that took most of the previous episode.After the revelation this episode,I wish they’d have spent an entire episode on it instead of the funeral as they could certainly go into more details.

        But yea I agree,better late than never :P

    • June 2, 2013 at 9:17 pmObserverJC

      There have been some hints about Hideauze being human-squid hybrid before this episode. The pictures in Virox’s post in episode 7 show some similarities between the girls and Hideauze to suggest they could be genetically altered humans.

      http://randomc.net/2013/05/19/suisei-no-gargantia-07/comment-page-1/#comment-976376

      Given the carnival costume’s design, I believe the people in the Gargantia fleet at one point knew Hideauze’s true nature but forgot it with the passage of time. So the question I have now is how much more have they forgot? I couldn’t help but wonder whether the Gargantians already possess the technology needed to communicate and make peace with the whalesquid but simply don’t know they have it or how to use it.

      • June 2, 2013 at 9:39 pmJoybot

        WOW very good point! How come I have not noted it lol…

  • June 2, 2013 at 9:05 pmfragb85

    HIDEAUZE IS PEOPLE!!!!

    There it is, Gen is back in full force. We’ve been waitng for that other shoe to drop since we knew his involvment in Gargantia and here it is.

    Well I can officially say that I’ve been mind****ed. I was in agreement with others theory that the Hideauze originated from Earth, but I didn’t really expect them to be PEOPLE. It does raise a lot of questions on the nature of the war. Who are the aggresors of the current war? Was the Alliance attacking Earth back in episode 1? Is there a different faction of Earth Hideauze and Space Hideauze? Are they all intentionally hostile? So many questions. I have to wonder now how this will all end up in 4 episodes.

    • June 2, 2013 at 9:30 pmObserverJC

      I am leaning toward that Earth Hideauze and space Hideauze are two unrelated factions just as the humans on Earth are unconnected to the Galactic Alliance because that would make a peaceful resolution more likely, which I believe the story is heading. Since both humans and Hideauze on Earth have nothing to do with the war in space, there is less animosity between the two sides and make it easier for both of them to reach an agreement.

    • June 3, 2013 at 4:02 amAciel

      Those questions have already been explained.

      Humanity split into two factions.

      Those that had “evolved” and those that didn’t.

      The ones that didn’t built a wormhole gate and left Earth, the “evolved” followed them and became the Hideauze we know now.

      The humans and “evolved” that were left behind became the humans we see on the Gargantia and the “Whale Squid” in the ocean.

  • June 2, 2013 at 9:42 pmUngas123

    Knowing what the Hideauze are plus baby massacre plus flute at the end equals me dead inside…

    • June 3, 2013 at 10:33 amMgMaster

      And while it makes you & others feel dead inside,it makes UroButcher feel alive.He’s probably having a toast with the producers right now to celebrate his success.

  • June 2, 2013 at 9:42 pmKF

    We humans are sick, foolish creatures… We should have listen to Amy and leave them alone.

    TQ

  • June 2, 2013 at 10:45 pmc2710

    That was a mind blowing episode that was pretty much delayed and hidden by the fuwa fuwa of previous episodes

  • June 2, 2013 at 11:03 pmGhost

    Now that we know the origins of the Hideazue… I can’t help but be reminded of the SoS they sent out to the Alliance. I think that Alliance actually knows they are alive and are on earth. Perhaps they will show up later to deal with anyone who found out.

  • June 2, 2013 at 11:09 pmMRRG

    No match with human dna? There must be some right?

    • June 3, 2013 at 3:37 amMadox

      Chamber is the only party that can analyse DNA. Given that Chamber knew that the data represented classified material, it can be assumed that Chamber always knew Hideauze = Evolver Humans…

  • June 2, 2013 at 11:21 pmSchmell

    Why can’t i hold all this HEALING

  • June 2, 2013 at 11:44 pmkatsudon

    Got a very Shin Sekai Yori feel from that revelation in this episode- by no means a bad thing, but I gotta admit I never saw this coming. I thought Gargantia has been kinda slow as of late, so this episode blew me away. I’m really excited for the final few episodes, because I have no idea how it’s going to end- all I know is, it’s going to be one hell of a ride.

    • June 4, 2013 at 6:31 pmKix

      Yeah, I actually had Shin Sekai Yori vibes as I watched this episode. Probably due to Shin Sekai Yori that I had an inkling already of what might happen…

  • June 2, 2013 at 11:56 pmFlareKnight

    I do wonder if there is any hope of a peaceful solution. The Hideauze may have started out as humans, but who knows how intelligent they are at this point. They came up with this to evolve past their problems. Hard to say if after all this time if there is any human intelligence left in them.

    Definitely an interesting look at how people will respond to a terrible situation. Some decided to head off to space while others decided to change themselves into something that could survive. Have to say I’d go with the Alliance. Take my chances surviving in ships than turning myself into some kind of weird monster. There’s just no way to know what doing that kind of thing will do to you. After so much time passes can you even still think of yourself as human?

    Seems like quite a few factions came out of this. The Alliance in their ships, the Space Hideauze who made it through with the Alliance into the depths of space, the Hideauze on Earth who adapted to the oceans, and the humans living on their ships on the surface.

    Curious to see where all this goes in the remaining episodes.

    • June 3, 2013 at 12:28 amUnknownVoice

      Oh but that’s the thing – no one EVEN TRIED to figure out on whether they can communicate with Hideaze. That’s the saddest part.

      In the end, both Galactic Alliance and Hideaze ended up being humanity-less monsters.

      • June 3, 2013 at 1:24 amFlareKnight

        Well to be fair we have no idea if the Alliance has tried at any time to communicate with the Hideauze. We’ve gotten such a small view of their society that it’s hard to speculate.

        I still end up finding myself not having that big an issue with the Alliance. It’s a lot easier to change socially than it is to change physically. The Alliance can pick up the things they discarded in order to survive. But we don’t have any idea if the Hideauze still have intelligence. Societies change, but what the Hideauze did is something that is harder to measure since we have no actual experience in seeing people transform into different lifeforms. It will be an interesting thing to find out if the Hideauze are sentient beings that simply changed their forms, or are they simply akin more to monkeys? Having a genetic relation to humans, but going no further than that.

        Probably unfair, but I just think it’s a measure of evidence. We’ve seen in Ledo that members of the Alliance can change and adapt. But we haven’t seen the same from the Hideauze. If suddenly we establish communication with them then my view on it will change accordingly.

  • June 2, 2013 at 11:57 pmsherry

    Finally, revelations! Well, if there weren’t any only a few eps before the end, that would have been a problem ahaha~
    About what was told…well, I feel bad for them being all exterminated to the last in the sens that they indeed just stayed in their corner and didn’t bother anyone as long as nobody went after them, but if we are talking about seeing them as humans, their appearances and behavior make it bit difficult to consider them as such. As many said above, their are not humans beings per se anymore, what they are now is very far from the firsts engineered humans/hideauze we saw in the video. Can they think logically? Do they have a mind of their own? Ca they communicate? Did they keep any humans characteristic at all?

    As for what will happen from this point on…unless others migrated to other parts of the planet, Ledo has killed them all, so it’s too late to talk about peace with them…And as for the ones in Space, again, like many said above, they certainly do not act friendly at all to say the least, and it seems like that started from the moment they were still on Earth, they were pretty aggressive =_= I see no real solution: even if Ledo use the technology left behind to contact the Alliance and make public these revelations, what would it change concretely? I don’t know…
    The only immediate action I can see him take right now, if for the humans on Earth to never access this base and never get hold of this technology/science left behind.

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:03 amHaseo

    It looks like the japanese finally achieved their dream of becoming tentacle monsters. Banzai.

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:05 amHaseo

    For some reason the jelly girl felt like she was something from Eureka 7. I can’t be the only one who felt that way right?

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:13 amTaiyo

    The whole Ledo killing the hideauze larva reminds me of the White Phosphorus scene from Spec Ops the Line

    Warning Graphic:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7TaLjdXMc

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:16 amBakapooru

    One word: freaky…

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:17 aminfo600

    my thought right after watching the episode:

    -The last few minutes of this episode – the biggest bombshell since MSMM…aka. Urobutcher strikes again
    -the same revelation also brings te proper timeline for the war from “it’s been like this even before the characters were born” to “this war started a 2-3 thousand years ago”
    -if I know any better, there’s 2 kinds of hideauze, the normal squids and the actual human/hideauze hybrids
    -with the last point in mind, was the costume the three girls were wearing in ep 6 being similar to the hybrids a quincidence, or something deeper?

    ps. opening updated with Ridget having her hair down (and not in the end of the OP)

    And all these talks about Chamber having a chance to go “rampant” (Halo ref.) on Ledo if he chose the wrong words on the AI…

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:18 amWildKaiser

    So… does that mean the healing has ended?

    Oh man. What an episode. The war from way back isn’t over yet. It’s.. kind of amazing how they’ve been fighting for so long.

    I don’t feel bad for the squids though. Both sides are just thinking about their own interests (which makes sense since right from the start it didn’t look like they could find a common ground)

    Can’t wait for the next epi~

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:18 amTarage

    Here’s the thing that bugs me. So here we have the Evo-Squid people who have stayed behind on earth. They clearly are quite a bit more powerful than the surface dwelling humans and their ships, so much so that they both worship and fear them. Now, these people are clearly living on a very fine line between surviving and not, given that they have to scavenge for supplies. So why the hell haven’t the Evo-Squid people sent some sort of envoy or something and tried to talk to them? Say “Hey, so, we’re people, but that crazy war is behind us now. We know you need supplies and parts and shit to live, so we’ll help you get it. Just stay away from our nests okay?” I mean, am I the only one who still sees these Evo-Squid people as jackasses?

    I’m with Chamber on this one. Kill em all.

    • June 3, 2013 at 1:28 amFlareKnight

      Kind of goes back to the question of whether the Hideauze are even intelligent. After so much time of generations being born in that natural condition it’s hard to say if they even think like people anymore. They may simply be Squids with human DNA making up part of them. Or they simply evolved into a condition where they can’t communicate. Comes down I guess to whether people can remain people after all that.

      Or they are just a bunch of jackasses, XD.

      • June 3, 2013 at 2:38 amTarage

        Communication isn’t just vocal. Hell, all you need to communicate is some way of moving. Look at how well a game like Journey works. The point is, if they aren’t intelligent, then they aren’t really human anymore. Getting worked up over something that willingly discarded it’s humanity in favor of barbarism is pointless. And if they are still intelligent, like humanoid one suggests, then they are jackasses.

        I still support Chamber.

    • June 3, 2013 at 9:48 pmFarHorizon

      I don’t think the sea based hideaze are more intelligent than say, dolphins, if they are even that intelligent.

      I think they are instinctively reacting to anyone who enters their lair (thus killing Pinion’s brother) and to death of their comrade at Ledo/Chamber’s hands (the mass drive by of the fleet).

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:39 amTerrorhunt

    Not gonna lie. After last week’s ep of MJP, I was hoping that Gargantia would make up for the lack of mech-action with lots of Hideauze killing. Now, I immediately regret of my wish. I’m just gonna bang my head on the wall now if anyone needs me.

    PS: Somehow, I get a scary feeling that Chamber might gonna go HAL2000 on Ledo and the rest of Gargantian.

    • June 3, 2013 at 9:18 amT-Man

      I hope Chamber doesn’t go all HAL 2000 but as Dahak said “Its hard to disregard what has been programmed into me as fundamentally true. Even if it is in error.”

      It would suck if Chamber is the big final bad guy.

      I expect more in the line of a serious counter attack for the other whalesquid villages/towns.

  • June 3, 2013 at 1:04 amewok40k

    OK, definitely a WHAM! episode done right. Of course Urobutcher would not be himself if it would not involve massacre and suffering… But still reveal done in excellent way…
    I actually was impressed by Ledo overriding the “top secret” on the data recovered. Reminds me of Ripley making Hicks effectively commander of remaining Marines in Aliens to support “nuke from the orbit” solution.
    Talk about the long war and this one is one of the longest indeed. For anyone playing Star Wars The Old Republic – spoiler tags if you have not done Voss planet yet – Show Spoiler ▼

    anyone?
    It is possible the Hideauze left on Earth were some peacenik dissenters who refused to go to eternal war in the space, while same applied to Gargantians on the “human” side. Or, they were just left alone because there was no spaceships enough for them. This way or another, both sides had the most warlike factions leaving into space crusade, and on Earth remained relatively peaceful populations focused more on survival. The self-destruct on the wormhole gate explains why Earth was “lost” to both factions in space.
    One thing Chamber has wrong was his explanation for “weakness” of Earth Hideauze – they not devolved due to lack of natural enemies, it is the “space” ones that hyper-evolved to combat their enemies – the Galactic alliance!

    • June 3, 2013 at 1:33 amSeptin

      Could be that there was not enough ships for all the Evolvers to get into space with and some was left to roam the earth. However i think it depends on what the Hideauze really is at this point, both the ones at earth and in space. The earth Hideauze seems intelligent seeing as they came to Gargantia in a large pod after one of thier own got killed by a strange machine. I also wonder if they have come so far that the Hideauze is now a hybrid of symbiotes and humans. It could be that since the earth Hideauze was left there they failed to evolve or just go stuck in evolution. I dont know what to think at this point. We just know that thier origin but not enough about thier life or lifecycles to be sure of anything.

      • June 3, 2013 at 9:50 pmFarHorizon

        Based on appearances in the video, I think the earth based Hideaze are just the original symbiont the Evolvers created, not the human merged Hideaze that are in space.

    • June 3, 2013 at 4:34 am33808

      I agree. The Hideauze and GA in space are possibly the extremist factions and have been killing each other for decades while the Hideauze and Humans back on Earth are more ‘moderate’ but have devolved to an extremely primitive state due to the Ice Age.

  • June 3, 2013 at 1:43 amzztop

    I’d have classified the first squid/human hybrids as humans, since they (most likely) would’ve retained their human intelligence, emotions and (presumably) their capacity for communication after conversion(assuming nothing went wrong).

    But what of their whalesquid/Hideauze descendants in the current Gargantia timeline? Could they still be considered human complete with the capacities mentioned above, or would their minds have degraded by so much that they’re nothing more than wild fauna driven by animal instinct?

    • June 3, 2013 at 9:30 amT-Man

      Their super deadly sun flower fortress in the beginning argues they are quite intelligent as Ledo’s people counter to it was more haphazard (6 starships to fire a superweapon?). Their battle plan also worked out. They fought off Ledo people quite easily.

      So are they sentient? I would say yes. Intelligent? Yes

      Do they think like Ledo’s people I would say not.

      Do they think like us? not so much but closer.

      Could they understand us and vice versea? Probably but it wont stop the war as hasn’t all war on earth been between two or more sides who can understand each other?

      • June 3, 2013 at 9:53 pmFarHorizon

        I don’t think their ability to fight showed sentience. Many animals fight very well & we don’t consider them sentient. Why would an organic space cannon need to think very much? It just needs to aim – it could even be part of a hive mind?

        If the Hideaze retain sentience, I think it’s in some class of them that we have not seen & the current ones are the “soldier/worker” classes.

  • June 3, 2013 at 1:57 amboingman

    Could someone please post this week’s end card? Thanks.

    I have to admit that at the beginning I was actually rooting for him to kill them all, but I had that uncomfortable feeling that grew the more he moved int. It didn’t take long to realize that this was turning into a massacre without any real danger for him.
    Well played, show producers.

  • June 3, 2013 at 1:59 amrsquirrel

    The revelation is shocking, but on the other hand, what difference does it make? People kill people all the time (that’s how the original war started anyways). So if the two side’s ideologies are still opposed, they’d keep fighting regardless if they were the same species or not. If only conflicts could be resolved by acknowledging “oh hey you’re human too”.

    I think the more pertinent issue is that since the whale squid are a different “race” (tribe/nationality) of Hideauze, it would be wrong to exterminate them on the basis that they’re genetically the same species as the one you’re already fighting.

  • June 3, 2013 at 2:11 amAnanas

    Ledo’s reaction doesn’t make any sense.

    http://i.imgur.com/JlZWdVP.jpg

    • June 3, 2013 at 2:28 amc2710

      To me it makes the perfect sense.

      If you watch the media release, the Hiedeauze that he met looks exactly like that named feminine Hedieauze.

      And after that revelation and realisation, I’d be reacting like him as well

    • June 3, 2013 at 4:55 amjhpace1

      That was Chamber killing the larva-humanlike Hideauze in his grip at the last scene. It was Chamber’s AI on autopilot, killing the creature before Ledo could countermand the standing order.

      I wouldn’t be surprised to see Ledo kill all the whalesquid larvae in the facility anyway, if he concludes the Hideauze are no longer human. It will make Ledo a more bitter soldier, but I think that’s the theme we are seeing here. The epilogue could be Ledo as a soldier with nothing left to fight, hence the ending credits to the anime series.

    • June 3, 2013 at 6:00 amAnon

      I fully agree.

      Ledo had no second thoughts about vaporizing perfectly normal human pirates. So, now he’s going to suddenly cry a river for his life long enemy (that he has effectively been brainwashed into hating) whalesquid enemies after finding out they were really egotistical humans that initiated the space war by hijacking their space gate centuries before?

      Honestly, I expected him be more like “Hell yeah!” when Chamber squished the squid.

      The whole situation was way way too forced. This plot twist smells of some of the worst writing I’ve seen in a while.

      • June 3, 2013 at 7:34 amAnon2

        There’s a subtle but nonetheless difference from watching puffs of vaporised humans on screen and wading through blood and guts of the supposedly enemies up close. My 2 cents.

      • June 3, 2013 at 10:17 amT-Man

        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • June 3, 2013 at 8:08 pmGuilherme

        Actually the Continental Union started the war.
        They started the war because they couldnt come to terms with the evolution process being carried by the Evolvers even though they (the evolvers) were volunteers.

        If anything, the hijack of the Wormhole was retaliation.
        Also… If I were an Evolver, I wouldnt want to arrive a century later in star system filled with people who wanted me dead and had a hundred years to think how they would kill me once I arrived.

      • June 4, 2013 at 12:17 pmGermanguy

        Yes, with this “The Enemy is just Human modified Symbiont, so Human “Toys”". For me this Anime lost his Magic of “New”. Now it have the smell of “i’ve seen that before!”

        Sorry, for watched so many Animes and being so Old…

  • June 3, 2013 at 2:45 amYourIdeas

    It’s a rather shocking revelation that was foreshadowed quite well a few episodes back and the moments leading up to the media clip. I could already tell that there was going to be some strange experiment involving humans the minute that they revealed the Hideauze fetuses, which looked eerily similar to human fetuses.

    With that out of the way, I think the only question I have left is what the hell is up with the anatomy and evolution of the Hideauze. There seems to be many species, include human Hideauze, breeding pods, some weird quadrapedals as shown in the clips, etc. Some of them even seem to swim backwards at times.

    Whatever the case, I think the part I found most shocking was how Chamber ignores Ledo’s orders and still kills the humanoid Hideauze. Definitely seems like he’ll be a final boss of sorts who will reject Ledo for insubordination.

  • June 3, 2013 at 2:54 amRenegade_Saber

    I never thought I’d see the day Ledo become a baby killer , unintentional as it may be. I guess in war , everyone is a victim . No winners in war . . . just survivors who need to live with themselves . How ironic that I was rewatching higurashi , and it didnt even make me flinch , while after seeing this revelation episode , and the revelation scene , I couldnt help but close my eyes and take it all in . Soylent Green is people , Hideauze is people . . . well played . . . well played .

    • June 3, 2013 at 4:29 am33808

      Yes it is war and the Hideauze are just as guilty as the Purists.

  • June 3, 2013 at 4:25 ampokpok

    hideazu and human on earth are different , this remind me of Deus Ex Human revolution.
    Rurist vs Evolved , we are discussing about humanity in this episode. Hideazu who think of human is inferior and Purist who view hideazu as and abomination , are both no longer human.
    why on people on earth who struggling to survive. Those in space take their time to kill each other and try to conqueur each star out of greed.
    what does it mean to be a human? the Human-hydiaze hybrid litte girl is more human than Ledo who and Pinion right now! Human suppose to think multiple time than act , Ledo and Pinion is worst than a machine ,they think only about revenge and extermination(single mind) they lack emotional , Rational and spiritual belief! Greed and wrath take control and you no longer human just and empty shell of destruction.

    Starcraft Spoilers
    Show Spoiler ▼

    • June 3, 2013 at 4:37 amanon

      Might wanna put some of that in spoilers.Even if it isn’t spoilers regarding this show.

  • June 3, 2013 at 5:12 amKevin Yamagata

    As expected from Urobutcher. That comes out of nowhere, really didn’t expect those revelations.

  • June 3, 2013 at 5:48 amMormegil

    It was a bad choice to watch this episode after tonight’s Game of Thrones. Oh boy, it’s been a depressing night.

  • June 3, 2013 at 5:54 ampokpok

    some random thought : let’s the monster girl prologue begin!

  • June 3, 2013 at 5:55 amNekomimimeido

    Ok, so the Hideauze were humans.. Gen Urobuchi is being inspired by Shin Sekai Yori…

    • June 3, 2013 at 6:13 amFarHorizon

      Could be, but likely he came up with the concept for this anime some time before SSY was aired. I suppose he could have read the novel though.

      Or maybe he’s a fan of Dr. Who?

  • June 3, 2013 at 6:56 amReddyRedWolf

    The Evolvers already created a method to survive the Ice Age with adaptation to space. Except their way shuns all technology and are slow in space travel. They went Luddite for biotech.

    The Continental Alliance creates a wormhole drive so people can leave Earth faster with a better chance to find a new homeworld.

    What did the Evolvers do? Lets steal their shit and leave behind the inferior humans and we Transhumanist alone will rule the cosmos!

    That sort of behavior still continues as the vector of Hideauze expansion is the Galactic Human Alliance expansion via wormholes.

    The Hideauze are no longer Human Transhumanists but parasites chasing their prey. The symbiont has taken over their psychology and are no longer human intellect in anyway.

    The Galactic Alliance has it also bad. Their over reliance to Artificial Intelligence has resulted to the A.I. discovering the Zeroth Law. The machines like Chamber think they know what is best for humanity.

  • June 3, 2013 at 7:28 amRenegade_Saber

    This show clearly illustrates how technology can be our salvation , or destruction.

    The more or less peaceful coexistence , and live or let live attitudes on earth of past , are a stark contrast to the chaotic war waged amongst each other in the future of space.

    I pity Ledo in the sense that , after all these years of military life, and of service , he finds out that everything he fought for and everything he believed in was a lie.

    Cant think of a harder test for a man than this .

    • June 3, 2013 at 7:59 amCybersteel

      The bed.

  • June 3, 2013 at 10:14 amHomer Li

    I changed my mind, It’s the best anime of this year.
    I saw the bright girl and dark story :)

  • June 3, 2013 at 10:57 amKingofConquerors

    Well the troll didn’t reach the culmination of this week’s Game of Thrones episode, but i’d be lying if i said it didn’t faze me enough to get back to the series. Two game-changers this week. We’re on a roll guys.

  • June 3, 2013 at 11:06 amSuperscooper

    I was taken aback by this episode, especially the last few scenes when Chamber killed that last hideazu because of the foreshadowing.

    Going back to what Bellows told Ledo in episode 3 “you shouldn’t kill people, we are the same species after all”. Now with the information that has come to light about the hideazu’s lineage supposedly rooting from human beings , being conflicted about whether slaughtering the hideazu and eventually his reaction to Chamber killing that humanoid hideazu was absolutely fitting.

  • June 3, 2013 at 12:09 pmsilver_huskey

    >”Of course, this latter part is wild conjecture, but it’d admittedly set up some pretty nice dynamics if Ledo ends up communicating via the whalesquid and stopping the war that way.”

    Not if Chamber keeps killing them in this manner. =/ http://randomc.net/image/Suisei%20no%20Gargantia/Suisei%20no%20Gargantia%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2037.jpg

    On one hand it’s awesome to see our theories pan out. On the other hand, I was still shocked and maybe a bit horrified. I can totally understand Ledo’s freakout, everything he was taught about the Hideauze was a lie. Well, to a degree. They are hostile and trying to prevent GA’s expansion into space. But they’re also part human and a LONG time ago both groups used to be one. Back on Earth. Which the GA tells its soldiers and citizens is just a mythical place now. WHAM.

    If I were in Ledo’s place I’m not sure what I’d do. Perhaps return to Pinion and tell him what he’s learned. Perhaps go back to the Gargantia. I don’t know. The data contained in that center is still worth hauling up, even if the truth about ancient human civilization is an ugly one. Maybe de-evolution for both the humans and hideauze on Earth wasn’t such a bad thing after all. The relationship isn’t perfect but they are co-existing. The highly advanced societies in space are locked in an forever war…

    Even though the big reveal was shocking, the information gained was worth it to a degree. The whalesquid/hideauze weren’t mowed down in complete vain. Except for the hybrid. That sucked.

  • June 3, 2013 at 1:38 pmDorian

    While yes, the information gained was extraordinary, it was still the killing of innocent lives. It was very vain. Its also something I don’t think Ledo will be able to get over. He might eventually recover, but it will shape who he is from now on.

    Also, since Chamber tried holding this information back, what else does he know that hasn’t he told Ledo? It may not simply be that he becomes the final boss, but that he can actually understand the Hideauze. That communication has been there all along, however its on lockdown simply because the higher ups don’t want it out there. After all, Chamber managed to crack Gargantia’s language don’t forget.

    I want to think that there is going to be a happy ending, but with how many episodes are left, things aren’t looking well.

  • June 3, 2013 at 5:00 pmMagoiichi

    I actually expected the Hideauze to be a legit alien race, but nope, Cliche Humans always trying to cause their own destruction in the hopes of saving themselves.

    There seems to be a long running trend in Sci Fi where it’s always about Humans fucking shit up and almost causing its own destruction.Why can’t there be legit alien races like in Star Trek or Star Wars?I know there are other Sci Fi works that have legit aliens, but I can’t remember them because my mind is overshadowed by stories where Humans end up almost causing the end of Humanity through experimenting.

    The Hideauze origin story is still interesting as far as why they are fighting the Galactic Alliance, a.k.a. Continental Union.

    I freaking called it a couple of episodes back, disobeying a direct order and saying information made before he was created as “classified”

    Chamber, stop!

    I’m sorry, Ledo.I’m afraid I can’t do that.

    This mission is too important for Chamber to allow you to jeopardize it, Ledo.

  • June 3, 2013 at 5:30 pmGuilherme

    I still think that Hideauze/whalesquid and the Evolvers are totallu different species.
    I think the Evolvers still retain their humanoid form (like the now dead Ika Musume) and the symbionts they created evolved into whalesquids/Hideauze.

    Whether the actual Evolvers are controlling the Hideauze to fight the Gallactic Alliance or were just eaten/controlled by them at some point or even dont want anything to do with it anymore are up to speculation at this point.

    • June 3, 2013 at 10:02 pmFarHorizon

      I agree that the earth hideaze are likely not human merged & are the original symbiont.

      I think the space Hideaze were all (at least originally) human merged, based on the video. They seem to constantly tinker with their own DNA, so it would make sense that they created some specialized sub species that are no longer human at all (and maybe not sentient).

  • June 3, 2013 at 5:56 pmmac65

    I can’t but help think that there’s a darkness in Chamber.
    First, he “knows” without decoding any of the data, that’s
    it’s classified. Ledo has to “pull rank” to get chamber to talk.

    Second, Chamber disobeyed Ledo’s order to stop and not kill
    the squid.

    It’ll be an interesting final episodes…

    • June 3, 2013 at 9:23 pmShadow

      Think about it from Chamber’s perspective. He was designed to kill Hidaeuze, not to discover the origins of the Hideuze. From Chamber’s perspective origins mean nothing, they are the enemy of the Continental Nation/Space Alliance anyways. And even if Chamber is the final villain, he is way to OP *he has admited that without Ledo’s orders his capabilities are reduced to a 50%, but that’s still OP*

      I think the main plot point the series will have is going to be regarding Amy. That girl on the flashback looked a lot like her. So i wouldn’t be surprised if she is half-human/half-evolver.

      Something will happen next episode that will set things up for the finale, that’s for sure

  • June 4, 2013 at 12:14 amGrandier

    Good F**king God. Just when I thought Ledo was the shit, a perfect soldier, a living weapon built just for war, with little to no human emotions outside of rage and hate – the series takes a dive and make him ‘human.’ Oh woe as Ledo, he’s killed humans! Wait…he just killed hundreds if not thousands of humans up to till a moment ago. I also doubt he’s cried over lost human comrades in the past – why make it seem like Ledo suddenly ‘found’ his humanity? Just because the plot is convenient?

    The only way Ledo can redeem himself as the badass that he was, is if he makes a leap of logic from, “I must kill Hideazue. Hideazue are in actuality human. Therefore, I must kill both Hideazue and humans. Mission accepted.”

  • June 4, 2013 at 12:42 amBakaro

    What happen to Ledo is beyond words.

    Nvm the space war combatant, it’s war. But the main problem here is he killed plenty of the peaceful “tribe” on Earth. He even destroy the majority of the youth nesting, AKA innocent children.

    The Gargantian warned him in the past…
    There is always some scary truth in the old tales of taboos. (T_T)

  • June 4, 2013 at 2:17 amMóci

    I’m still mad. Chamber, you…

  • June 4, 2013 at 7:05 amSadifn

    Hey, you can see Pinion’s brother Yunboros right when Ledo saw the field of larvaes lol

    • June 4, 2013 at 9:51 amewok40k

      interesting… what if he was “Hideauzed”?

  • June 4, 2013 at 7:40 amdeVacto

    my brain is not ready,
    sasuga urotbutcher

  • June 4, 2013 at 8:08 amRed HeartGold

    Hideazue = Human. Never been expected. :O

    • June 4, 2013 at 11:56 amGermanguy

      on Earth, most of them looks like a Empty Host. They never got the symbiosis with his Evolver Human.

  • June 4, 2013 at 10:33 amblack_cat1

    I highly doubt that we can call Hideauze as “human”. After the transformation process, most of them look like a completely different life form now.

    Even if Ledo found out about the truth, that wont change the fact about the rivalry between Hideauze and GA; thus the war will continue. Evolver’s method was a mistake from the beginning. If the world focus on developing the worm hole, then there might be no war and people were safely transported to space.

    The people of Gargantia, in my speculation, are descendants of those who couldn’t leave Earth because the Union self-destructed the first worm hole to prevent Hideauze control it.

    • June 4, 2013 at 11:55 amGermanguy

      or the Hideauze successfully jumped trough the Hole and Destroyed it behind them, so not all Union could get trough. This is not really clear for me

      The Hate of the Union must be that great, that after many years, the most have forgotten why they are fighting. But they still go on with it

      • June 5, 2013 at 3:57 amblack_cat1

        Well I think that is the Union action cause the leader of Evolver said he would want to seize it to spread Evolver dominion to the galaxy. The Union activated the self-destruction function to prevent Evolver from having technology of worm hole drive.

  • June 4, 2013 at 12:00 pmGermanguy

    Okay, after thinking in peace. What Ledo and Chamber should now do…

    Visit the Graveyard

    No not on Eart, or under Water….

    In Space. Perhaps he can salvage some parts from the wreaks around Earth, from the old Battlefields

  • June 4, 2013 at 12:01 pmsilver_huskey

    I took some screen shots of the whalesquids’ faces. Other than the baby/adolescent phase they definitely don’t appear to be very human-like:

    http://www.theicecave.org/temp/gargantia-whalesquid01.jpg – Only a face a mother could love. A whalesquid mother. XD

    http://www.theicecave.org/temp/gargantia-whalesquid02.jpg – I wonder if Ledo will still want to carve flutes out of these canines?

    At this point I’m wondering if they are just little more than feral animals. I still believe the space hideauze are intelligent/sentient and just as militant as the Galactic Alliance. Their forever war of dominance in space will probably never end.

    • June 4, 2013 at 12:04 pmsilver_huskey

      To clarify: I mean *both* the GA and Hideauze’s desire to be the dominate faction.

  • June 5, 2013 at 9:23 amGermanguy

    All of this War, because they dont wanted to use Cryo Sleep pods or Generation Spaceships

    Dont come me with There was no time. But Time to play God and create these Hybrids to travel with small Human DNA inside it to distant stars

    But, why they started the Fight? Not all Evolver was recruit on Free will? This Point could be interesting

    Are the Survivors on Earth, decants on Evolvers or Union? Because if the Alliance is to come back, i dunno if they still continue to life in Peace

    • June 5, 2013 at 1:20 pmewok40k

      Alliance has come back, in the form of Ledo. It was enough to start war again…

  • June 5, 2013 at 7:25 pmsealouse

    Oh man. Betweeen this and the “red wedding” I just lost it.

    • June 5, 2013 at 8:14 pmMagoiichi

      Nothing Urobutcher has ever done has ever come close to the mindraping that is the Red Wedding.

      • June 6, 2013 at 12:25 amewok40k

        “One wedding and whole lotta funerals”

      • June 6, 2013 at 6:21 pmFarHorizon

        I’m not watching the show, but I was pretty shook up by that part in the book.

        At least it wasn’t the first slaughter mind f*ck GRRM had done, so I was a little prepared for it.

      • June 7, 2013 at 10:13 amewok40k

        HMMM… Urobuchi and Martin… lets make them team up on anime version of GoT?

  • June 8, 2013 at 12:44 amtehjonel

    biggest mindfuck of the season.

  • June 9, 2013 at 1:57 amashiguru

    Let me first put my opinion out. I thought this was the weakest episode of the season. However, it may redeem itself when the show is complete and I can look at it from an overall perspective.

    My biggest gripe was the humanoid Hideazue at the end. To me, it came across as a very forced, emotionally charged plot device. First the timing was force. Secondly, its not realistic. If the humanoid Hideazue possesses a modicum of any intelligence, I doubt it would go face to face, out of lively curiosity, confront an entity that literally laid waste to every living thing in the vicinity.

    Second, while the slaughter of any species can never be condoned, I did not feel as strongly as others did on the whalesquid massacre, even after the big reveal. First the episode, seems to hint that not all Hideazue are derived from humans, there was obviously a source lab created organism. The whalesquid seem to behave much like a normal animal would behave in most situations. I just cannot picture them as people. Lastly, to get back to the humanoid Hideazue at the end, because it walks on two legs doesn’t necessarily make it a human.

    Third, I always expect the Hideazue to be man made. I did not expect them to be actual people. Well people in the past. As to what they are now, I cannot fathom. The show has never given insights into their current society. Are they mindless animals, driven solely to feed, reproduce, and defend themselves or are they a society. I have always felt that the human condition requires more than just survival. There has to be more than just living.

    One of the things I did not understand, is why the evolvers continued to prosecute the war when the discovery of the warp gate was made. They are photosynthetic organisms, they can live in space. Their enemy is pretty much leaving “the field” in their command. There is really no reason to go chase after them like rabid dogs. Can they not in the fullness of time make their own gate?

    I covered my main points. I am kinda curious where they go with this. Still my favorite show of the season. Although, I must say how can you convince a bunch of people to live as a snail.

  • June 9, 2013 at 10:32 pmJel

    Gah… MIND BLOWN.

    Hold on while I feel completely disgusting and empty inside. The clincher had to be when Chamber squeezed the hell out of that last Hideauze. Just. Wow. Wasn’t ready for this at all. Then thinking back to the Hideauze babies/fetuses… AHHHHHH

    Definitely thought that daughter of Ryan Matsumoto (Elaine?) looked like Amy. Wonder if there’s some connection.

    I guess the rest of humanity were getting frightened/angry over these evolved humans, and began to go out of their way to kill them to extinction. Ledo’s generation becoming the ones that were not told as to why, but rather that they must and that they would either kill or be killed.