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「犠牲壊死」 (Gisei Eshi Nekurōshisu)
“Sacrificial Necrosis”
The theorizing and postulating and guessing and spoiling is going to be gangbusters after this episode – it’ll happen in blog comments and forums and everywhere Steins:Gate is sold. I’m not going to ignore it by any means, but the main point I want to get across here is this – that was an absolutely fantastic and emotionally powerful episode.
I liked Suzuha right from the first moment we met her, but she steadily grew on me all through her time in the series until by the end (for me) she was one of my favorite characters. It was hard saying goodbye, and the scenes leading up to her departure were some of the best in any series I’ve seen this year, never mind just this one. It’s only fitting that it was Mayushi who put it all together – like I said last week what she lacks in book smarts she makes up in perception. Ironic that the badge that proved the first big clue, even though Daru thought he was only doing it as a kind deception. It was the name of the time machine that gave it away, which was a pretty clever bit of deduction by our Maysuhi.
The fact that this seemed like a strong possibility didn’t take away from the emotional power of the reveal. It’s a testament to how much we’ve come to care about these characters that the hug between Daru and his daughter-to-be was such an emotional crescendo. But from that heart-warming moment, the series took a dark turn. Rather than coming to meet the lab members in 2010 as a 54 year-old, she sent a heartbreaking letter – posthumously, through her old friend Mr. Braun. And not only had she died, she’d died a suicide – condemning herself for failing in her mission to change the past. This physical time travel is tricky, as it turns out – it’s a one-way ticket, for starters, and when Suzuha awoke in 1975 she lost all her memories for the next 24 years.
What happens after that is the subject of much uncertainty. Okarin apparently sends a D-mail to warn Suzuha to go straight to the past after the time travel forum rather than let Okarin delay her, thus getting her to the machine before it’s damaged by rain. This clearly has an impact, as Mayushi is no longer killed at the lab and Suzuha – while still deceased – died of an illness rather than suicide. But just what changed, and by how much? The fact that Suzuha was still dead implies she – like Mayushi – was “fated” to die in that time stream, and things didn’t change enough to from an “A” to a “B” line. Indeed, the divergence meter has increased, but is still less than 1. Apparently, she didn’t leave a letter for Okarin either. Does that mean she never regained her memories at all? If so, how did things change enough so that Mayushi survived? And most ominously, Makise was conspicuously absent when Okarin raced back to the lab.
My theory on that is this – I think somehow, by sending that D-mail, Okarin reverted things back to the original Alpha timeline – the one where Makise died in episode one, but Mayushi isn’t fated to die. And Suzuha, in that line, is destined to die in 2001. But honestly, that’s just a guess, and there are better guessers than me out there.
What’s more interesting to discuss, for me, is just how great this show is at developing these characters. Their reactions to the news of Suzuha’s death were heartbreaking – and a reminder that all of them are still basically kids, no matter how smart they are. Okarin looked like an 18 year-old for the first time in the series to me. And what must it be like for him to be the only one who carries all these memories with him – the only one who will even recall the time they spent with Suzuha and, potentially, Makise? That’s the sort of thing that could eventually drive a good man mad – not many could cope with that kind of loneliness.
things just get worse yet awesome every episode. It just doesn’t let down.
Lots of theories out there, but I’m just gonna shut my mouth
i failed i failed i failed
Gave me goosebumps
Same here, man.
Yup. It was as heartbreaking a confession of failure as I have ever seen in an anime.
Yeah…The greatest emotional scene this season
Indeed it was heartbreaking that letter
I know! What’s more are there are severe consequences for all this time travel! Like for Suzuha stopping at 2010, and her being stopped by Okabe in order to find her dad, was able to find him and know how he is like plus she created more memories of her friends. However, this ends pretty bad as we all know, when she goes back to the past she’ll forget it all and failed her mission, thus committing suicide. She left the time plane with no regrets and full of satisfaction, to only end up with so much regrets it drove her mad in the end.
BUT when she asked in the letter for Okabe not to stop her on that day (thus Okabe sending the dmail), means that she will never know and meet her dad plus wouldnt really connect the same way she connected with Okabe and the others. She might have left with regrets but I guess she might just have accomplished her mission. Thus Mayuri is safe but to what cost? It looks like the dystopia future is still unchange since the divergence meter is still not up to 1%. Indeed just as Guardian Enzo said, Kurisu’s absence in the lab is quite forboding. Especially since it’s a completely new timeline now.
aye all that character development from the last few episodes has been shattered and all that is left is okabe dealing with the repercussions….
also yea that scene sent shivers down my spine D:
I was facepalming a little when they couldn’t figure out Suzuha’s dad. It was so blatantly obvious, and yet only MAYURI figured it out. The father-daughter hug was sweet though. Definitely a great moment if a little awkward.
It actually wasn’t that obvious to many. I figure it was Daru only through process of elimination (the same process Mayuri did), but only earlier. They could have easily twisted it around and say it was somebody else.
Ironically, Mayuri of all people figure it out. As more espisode come out, I am beginning to see a pattern to Mayuri. She knows a lot more than she is stating and appear to be. I have a feeling Mayuri knows everything and the consequence of each time shift…
Seems like it’s time for Okarin to go visit the Shrine again and see if Suzu’s second trip back netted a donated IBN.
Why didn’t Okarin go back himself again, to stop her from getting into the not-totally-fixed machine? Give Daru another shot at it…
Then if that failed…then try D-Mail before the storm.
They didn’t have enough time, because Mayushii was destined to die that day.
The what-if questions are endless. It’s best to not walk down that path…
I think you missed the point. Her traveling back to time was trying to imply that she was destined to failed at all cost. Like Mayuri is destined to died, Suzuha was destined to failed. It looks like only Okarin has the power to save the world…
That was on heck of an amazing episode. The moment when father and daughter reunited moved me to tears haha. I guess I’m just sensitive. Still, Stein’s Gate has done an excellent job developing the characters in such a way that you really feel for them. I felt really bad for Suzuha when she failed too, and then when Okarin undid all those heartwarming memories, that really must have hurt.
I also agree with your guess about the D-mail. The time line must have reverted to a point where the Time Leap machine was never built, thus Cern doesn’t kill Mayuri. On the other hand, the absence of Christina is really unsettling. Did anyone catch what was sent on the D mail, and who it was sent to? I’m assuming it was a warning to Suzuha not to stay longer, but I wonder how that could lead to Christina possibly being killed.
This is all just speculation on my part, but I think the original killer of Christina is Suzuha. Remember how in the first ep Okarin caught a glimpse of the Time Machine on the roof in perfect condition, then shortly after found Kurisu dead? I’m thinking that when some D-mail caused Suzuha’s Time Machine to crash an alternate time line, she lost her chance to kill Kurisu. Afterwards she changed her mind about killing her. When I look back and remember Suzuha’s role as a freedom fighter, it makes sense that she could try and stop CERN’s rule by preventing the invention of time machines. After all, she choose the land her time machine in the exact building that Kurisu would show up in.
Possible it could be Suzuha but she must be old at the time the murder happened.
You missed his point. Suzuha did travel to the past when Makise was murdered. In fact, Suzuha is the primary suspect. However, there were several odd occurrence in the first episode.
-The mystery Okarin’s scream
-The missing metal oopa
-The weird video message with static Okarin received
Yeah I checked the last few minutes again. Makise isn’t around and neither are the earphones for the Time Leap Machine. She might be dead in this timeline. So I guess next we have Okabe trying to find a way to save her instead.
On the plus side the whole experience with Suzuha has matured Okabe, so now he really does want to save the world.
Who will he save? Mayuri or Makise??!
That was just heartbreaking 🙁 . I actually got pretty teary-eyed throughout the episode, but I managed to pull myself together and not cry. I’m pretty curious about Daru’s spouse though. This is just speculation, but I’m betting on Feyris.
Unlikely because Feyris real surname isn’t Amane.
Given the mystery and limited characters list, I highly suspected that one of the main characters in Stein;Gate is the mother. The most obvious one is Feyris. The second would be Moeka.
Other possibilities are:
-Makise
-Mayuri
-Ruka
If I have to guess, my order is: Feyris, Moeka, and finally Makise. The most mysterious one is Moeka. I bet it is her…
makise and mayuri belong to Okarin FULLSTOP
The assumption you make is that it has to be a lab member. Suzuha is 18 and she came from 2036. So she was basically born in 2018. That’s EIGHT years from present day, so its perfectly plausible that Daru meets with his future wife much later. And again none of the lab members have Amane as their surname.
I gotta stop listening the Summary’s the good people at RC be posting, NO OFFENSE but everytime yall open up ,u guys start by saying “this is the episode where sh!t hits the fan!!!!” or “this was the Most emotionally heart wrenching episode!!!” or stuff along the lines of “this will shatter all ur expectations!!!” and then everytime i watch expecting to have my MIND BLOWN!!! aint jack sh!t happen!!! or at least not at the earth shattering revelation level that was implied. maybe its my bad for expecting to much, or maybe i should go rent a soul
Ironically, most people who post here watch the anime first, then come here to read what they missed and what other people speculate going to happen and discuss anything confusion…
If you read this post first before watching it, you are basically reading a summary of what happen. You spoiled it for yourself. So what is the point of watching it afterward then if you already know what will happen?
…Exactly.
episode 17 preview Show Spoiler ▼
From the preview
Show Spoiler ▼
LOL!
Tempting, but I rather wait for the next episode. I find that preview are spoilers themselves. So thanks, but no thanks…
Given that the diverence meter never crossed 1%, i would say they are still in the timeline where Mayuri is doomed. How they are going to do her in when she’s safe in the lab and Moeka doesn’t seem to be out for their blood, i really don’t know. Collapsing water tower? Minor earthquake? Death note unexplained heart stopping?
Suzuha’s letter was really sad. The near craziness of constantly repeating with the written word really conveys how much it shattered her. I do wish she stayed in 2010 as she’s a great character.
Since this is a time travel show, i won’t totally rule out that she’s gone forever but prospects of seeing her again are really bad given her “send off” by the story line.
Also, it seems like how it works in Madoka Magica. You get something, you lose something. Before the D-Mail, Suzuha got her answer and her reunion (her wish) but reaped despair sufficient to drive her to suicide. After the D-Mail, Suzuha never knew who her father was but never experienced the soul crushing despair.
Looks like being a time traveller is suffering
Since the time machine was never damaged in this new timeline, she went back with her memories intact, no?
Yeah, but the rainstorm happened before the initial party where Makise made her terrible pie and the first hints of Daru being her dad happened. That was a happy memory for her. Then there was her meeting her dad which was again a happy memory for her.
So her total amount of happiness gained turned into terrible despair.
When she went back before the rain storm, she never gained those happy memories but at the same time never had that crushing despair.
Like Sayaka said in Madoka, the sum of happiness and despair is zero.
This eps did demonstrate a point that we speculate would happen eventually, that is undoing what earlier D-mail have done. Thus, the D-meter went up.
As for the 1% divergence, 1% is written as 0.01. However, I get confused from time to time as to whether Okarin suppose to make the D-meter go up to 1.00 or down to 0.01.
“Apparently, she didn’t leave a letter for Okarin either. Does that mean she never regained her memories at all?”
Well I don’t think so since according to Mr. Braun, Suzuha looked through the divergence meter while on the hospital bed, worrying on what changes happened, right?
that was supposed to go here oops.
Since the time machine was never damaged in this new timeline, she went back with her memories intact, no?
Yes, the fact that she even realized what the D-meter even is imply that she has her original memories as well as her mission. The irony is that regardless of whatever she did, she was destined to failed. It point clues that only Okarin can save the world.
Ironically, he was the one who started the whole messed. Wouldn’t it make perfect sense to just killed Okarin?
I think Suzuha just didn’t write the letter because they never had any of the experiences with that little party at the lab after Okarin caught her before she left on the time machine (and all the events after). For that reason, she never got to be close friends with the group. She said her final goodbye in her text message to Okarin after all. In theory, none of them should know that she is a time traveler anyway. Well Okarin knows, but Suzuha wouldn’t realize that.
btw, anyone care to translate the D-mail sent by Okarin with the “SERN” thing?
He send the D-mail to himself that night when he was out in the rain chasing after Suzuha. It probably stated that he should let Suzuha leave.
Aw, they stole Mayushi’s only shinning spot on the anime. Originally in the game, just like in the anime, it was Mayushi who discovered who is Suzuha’s father. However, they did not believe her easily after all how credible can Mayushi’s character be in the first place! Mayushi on the game had to explain everything by herself including the meaning of Daru and Baron. The name of the time machine FGxxx and the initials of the pin badge. She even got to mention about the Future Machine meeting Daru went to on the day Suzuha was supposed to leave. On the game, Mayushi did not figure things out right after the machine was repaired but way before that. She was saving it as a parting gift for Suzuha.
It was more heartbreaking in the game because “I failed” was repeated xxx more times. And prior to that (before time travelling to the past) Suzuha was repeating “Hashida Itaru” 10x to see that “Titor” came from Daru’s name (the “da Itaru” part sounded like “Titor”)
On the divergence number: At the end of the episode Okabe sends the D-mail (despite Mayushi being against it) to himself telling not to send a D-mail to chase after Suzuha (this is the D-mail responsiblle for bringing down the divergence number into 0.33something) thus “undoing” the action and shifting the world line CLOSE to the one before it which was 0.409420 (note that the current divergence is 0.409031)
Ah ha! I’m glad someone realised that the divergence meter was showing a very familiar number we had seen right from the beginning. Gd job XD
oh! good job for finding this one. I was wondering why it started going up again. However this also means that Suzuha didn’t change anything, the change in the number is only due to Okarin’s Dmail. So what did she do?
Doesn’t that mean that Kurisu could still be alive? Since the meter’s number is close to the previous timeline’s number.
If you guys haven’t figure it out, both Dyne and Banzemanga have play the video game of Stein;Gate, thus they both know the ending as well as every little mystery in Stein;Gate.
So by asking them anything, you are basically asking them to spoil the ending for you. I highly don’t recommend it…
@Kratos, Suzuha stated a few episode back that her mission was to save the world from SERN. She intent to retreat the IBN 5100 for Okarin so he discovery SERN’s plan and try to stop them. Her mission later change to stopping Okarin from ever creating the microwave-phone. Thus, she want to travel to 1975 to get the IBN 5100. Technically, Okarin was born until the year 1990.
It imply that she lack the power to save the world from SERN. It further imply that only Okarin can. Thus, she can only aid Okarin to save the world and not save the world herself.
@AzarelHikaru, yes. Since the D-meter for when Makise died is unknown. We assume it was 1.00. So saving Makise changed it to 0.50. Given the fact, Makise should still be alive. But the fact that she was not in the lab imply something is ominous. Also notice that the time leap is not there since it is 8:00 PM where Mayuri is destined to died. The time leap was finished that morning. Something is not right here…
Woah, great episode. It is kinda funny that Mayushi of all people, figures out ‘everything’.
And Mr. Braun’s character was developed, some backstory very nice touch, not to mention interesting. I wonder if he has more to give in future episodes… there’s got to be a story behind him.
Off to save Makise
Show Spoiler ▼
I was shocked that Mayuri figured it out, but not surprised…
There are more and more pattern shown in Mayuri. By that I mean, she knows a lot more than what she appear to know. Given the path, I would say she can sense what it all means, but lack the words to describe it. She obviously knows every time shift was a bad idea. In fact, it was hinted that the whole time travel idea created by Okarin was a bad idea and she was against it since the beginning.
Ultimately, I believe Okarin will see it for himself that Mayuri was right in the end. So how can Okarin saved the world? By never becoming a mad scientist and be normal. Just my speculation…
You may have something there Chaos. Some crazy time travel series that ends up very simply and succinct back at the very beginning, sounds like a good call that does happen in storylines, now how they get to that point… I hope that it gets crazier and more action packed!!
More Makise I can guarantee…
I like how because the timeline change when okabe told suzuha to go instead of staying, canceled out the whole development they went though during this episode, simply amazing storytelling that makes absolute sense
I don’t want to be a dick, but “duh”…
We knew it all along that Okarin will eventually have to undo some of his earlier D-mail. But Okarin was right nevertheless when he stated after Feyris’s D-mail that maybe he have caused a change that he cannot undo. Irony is that he can, but he would enter into a different timeline instead of revert back into the timeline before Suzuha’s D-mail.
Wait wait wait.
I’ll admit that this episode was pretty powerful but I have a question.
Why didn’t Okabe just time leap to before Suzuha traveled back to the 70’s and write her a note or something telling her that she’s a time traveler and she needs to get a computer for some people 35 years later? Then we have no melodrama about lost companionship and all that jazz and they still get the computer.
Because a note might not be enough to restore amnesia that resulted on some temporal shift? Not to mention “You’re a time traveler” isn’t really the most believable thing to claim when you’re on the 70’s .
Well it would be a bit more verbose than that. Just throw in a few future facts of things that haven’t happened yet coupled with the plausibility of a time traveler scenario when you wake up next to a giant metal machine with no memories and I think it would have worked.
Given that we do not know how the failure happened, this is difficult to say. Possibilities include
i) Time machine satellite failed to materialise, leaving only Suzuha.
ii) Machine caught fire on entry into the timeline, with Suzuha disoriented, she only managed to save herself.
iii) Machine materialised over dangerous terrain such as the sea. As above Suzuha had time only to save herself.
iv) Random parts of the machine materialised over the entire time period from 1975 to 2010 rather than the machine travelling fully into 1975. Suzuha appeared with the driver’s seat.
It can only be assumed that the failure was catastrophic enough that a written note or even carved plaque with instruction would not work. This is assuming that Suzuha put effort into thinking of a possible solution wen she wrote to Okarin.
Alternatively, Suzuha at the point of memory recollection might have been unable to analyse the situation and went for the simplest and safest bet
You forgot to mention the possibility that when she travel back to time, her memory was erased and integrated into her past self because she doesn’t have the Reading Steiner. Much like how Okarin take over his “new” self after every shift. It is highly possible that everybody else suffer the exact opposite effect where they lose their memories and assume the memory of their past self.
lol. Actually, Okarin is not that old neither. He is a young man at most in hist 20ties.
Okarin used the D-mail because the time leap can only go back 48 hours max. The event of Suzuha leaving that raining night happen before the 48 hours limit thus only the D-mail can be used.
As for why he didn’t stop Suzuha from traveling back to 1975 to prevent her failure was that the time machine was damaged either way in the rain beforehand. Daru can only try to fixed it some more, but it is a game of trials and errors. Given his intention of saving Mayuri, now he has to worry about Suzuha and try to undo her fate. What a mess?!
“Apparently, she didn’t leave a letter for Okarin either. Does that mean she never regained her memories at all? ”
It’s obvious she kept them. Remember, Mr. Braun said she would stare at the divergence meter in the hospital and would ask out loud if she had changed it at all. And Kurisu should still be there with them in this timeline because the only thing Okarin should have effected with his d-mail was things that happened after Suzuha used her time machine that night, not before.
jynx
Could Okabe have went back in time again and stopped Suzu from going to 1975 knowing she would fail?
If they didn’t change world lines, does the grandfather paradox come into play with Daru/Suzuha.
If the D-mail Okabe sent was to prevent her from making a pit stop in 2010 and straight to 1975, she would have never met the lab members and thus not knowing to leave them a letter or the IBN computer. But because she ends up taking care of Mr. Braun again maybe she did stop in 2010. Or it could be mere coincidence. So many possibilities to work with in a plot with time travel.
You raise a valid point. Suzuha still stop in the year 2010 regardless of Okarin D-mail. It was primarily to let her go so her time machine won’t be damaged in the rain. To let Suzuha travel to the year 1975 directly, Okarin will need to send a D-Mail into the future where Suzuha decided to stop in 2010, which is impossible mainly because that is Suzuha’s choice and not Okarin. He lack the power to make her go directly to the year 1975 from the year 2036.
The grandfather paradox seem to be in motion. It seem like everything that is gonna to happen or has happen has already added the effect of time travel into the equation. Originally, we assume that time travel change the past, not made the present into what it already is given the change made in the past.
Sounds like Fate to me? “It is destined since the beginning”, words from Mayuri herself…
Now i’m really worried that the reason why Mayushii isn’t dead this time round is that the Timeleap Machine didnt get put together at all… Especially since Makise isn’t around… i really hope she’s not alrdy with SERN at the very moment in this time line >_<
or dead like in the first episode.
I believe it was mention in the last episode or the episode before that that the reason why Mayuri keep dying is directly caused by the time leap machine. So without it, Mayuri lives?!
Or course, Makise also stated that it could be fate, that Mayuri was destined to died since birth…
Damnit Okabe how could you!!! Hey can anyone tell me what the header of this blog is? Is it Guilty Crown?
Yes, upcoming series from next season. Pretty high rating from the fan.
wonderful epi 😀
i think your theory is right about the alpha timeline
kurisu was probably rescued by the presence of the time machine but since okabe send a d-mail not to stay there the time machine wasnt there and it led to kurisu her dead like we saw in the beginning of the series
all speculation ofcourse :p ill try to avoid the spoilers as much as i can and enjoy this series to its climax^^
Flaws in Enzo’s theory:
-The D-meter is 0.40
We assume the original D-meter was 1.00 where Makise died. So even the 0.40, we can assume Okarin time shift back to a world similar to the world before Suzuha’s D-mail. Bring us to the second flaw.
-In the 0.40 timeline, Makise was alive and a lab member
-They are still in Alpha timeline
The term Alpha and Beta timeline refer to two totally different worlds. In Beta, it is when Okarin finally cross the 1% divergence. Alpha timeline refers to all timelines where Mayuri died, Makise died, and/or SERN rule the world. It is a collection of all timelines in which Okarin failed to stop SERN’s dystopia. Thus they refer to the two worlds as Alpha and Beta. Remember Suzuha rope example where a single rope was really made up of many smaller woven together strings. Each string refer to a different timeline, but all are woven in the same rope (SERN’s dystopia).
thanx for making that clear!
I was really confused by this hole timeline-thing
Damn. I remember skimming over someone’s comment last episode and that somehow made the episode less of a sobfest for me. *loves a good cry*
Whether I’m over-analyzing or not, I think Makise’s initial reaction was a little weird. Whenever I saw her expression, the fact that Suzuha scorned her for most of the time she knew her rang in the back of my mind.
The D-Mail Okabe sent was “Stop tailing Suzuha, it’s a trap by SERN.”
I’m a bit disappointed that the alternate route for Suzuha isn’t animated (though I guess there wont be a workaround that ending because in that alternate ending Suzuha and Okabe travel together back to the 70’s)…those who didn’t play the game would miss out on further development on Suzuha (their trip to the ‘Big Site’ and discussion on Suzuha’s mother and how Okabe Homuruned that partcular timeframe).
Next week! Feyris’ ending and Show Spoiler ▼
Yeah! Too bad they don’t animate the part where Okabe decides NOT to send the D-Mail to stop himself from stopping suzuha! Suzuha’s ending is really good even though it has some dark tones overshadowing the ending, but that’s what makes it one of the best ending out of 5 possible endings!
I don’t think i’ll be reading any more speculation’s in these post. I’m not pointing fingers at anyone but I get the feeling some people might be reading up on the game and then post “speculation” here to look smart.
This post is not directed to those that use spoiler tags. Thank you for being considerate.
So you are one of the smart ones that figure it out…
I figure it out a while back when some posts speculation seem to make way too much sense, almost like they are stating the exact truth. So yes, there are some people here that do that. I suspected a few already, so I tend to not read their posts.
I for one didn’t play the game nor read the manga. I don’t like spoiling things for people and hate those who do. But, I do like making wild guesses. It just happen that most of mine turn out to be true. But, I tend to missed the twist to it. Predictions and speculations can be right, but never exact so expected some errors is wise…and fun. Like a person once told me, it’s no fun being right ALL THE TIME; some of the the best things in life are the ones you got wrong.
Crowning moment of heartwarming (father-daughter reunion) followed by crowning moment of heartbreaking (the suicide letter)…
Now with greatest mystery of the show being the question of who will eventually Daru get into bed with… erm scratch it, the greatest mystery is how to push the divergence beyond 1 percent!
Seemingly Mayuri is safe (at least temporarily – oh what a bad pun!)
I expect the unexpected, we are left with about 8 episodes and 60% of divegence to be made…
Now all this makes me REALLY want to play the game. Was there english edition?
It was sad to find out that she died, but at least I was left with a bittersweet feeling and not a completely sad feeling now that it seems Mayushii won’t have to die, although that of course isn’t quite certain yet. I hope that your theory isn’t correct and that Kurisu isn’t dead, and if she is, that Okarin can get her back.
Despite what anybody stated, Makise is one of THE most important character. Maybe even more than Mayuri. Second only to Okarin. I highly doubt she is dead. Given the storyline, Okarin and Maikse are a couple trying to save the world from SERN and Mayuri with the help of Daru and Suzuha.
Gah this episode is awesome. Daru talking serious for a sec and the twist of time(Suzu time travel cause and effect)
I’m not sure if someone brought this up because, well, there’s lots of comments but
I think she must have still regained her memories because Mr. Braun said she kept looking at the divergence meter in the hosipital muttering about the numbers. If she had lost her memories, wouldn’t she be clueless as to what this strange device was?
I thought since okarin send the D-mail, the time machine never got broken and thus she never lose her memories. The reason she didn’t send letter to okarin is because they were never close at the beginning. Did you forget once okarin send the D-mail, suzuha never got around to be close with anyone at all. Which is why Mayuri was trying to stop okarin or at least try to remind him.
Great episode! My one question is this: if this is the timeline where Kurisu is dead, then wouldn’t that mean that the time-leap machine was never created? If so, Okarin has lost his ability to go back in time. If Mayuri is killed or some other emotionally scarring event occurs, he’s screwed.
But he still has the D-mail thing so all hope is not lost.
I thought it somehow weird that time traveling(including how okarin get back to time) does not change the divergence number but sending D-mail change. I mean if somehow the D-mail influence the past character to act differently, then wouldn’t sending someone back will drastically change the past. As weird as it sound, it seem that sending D-mail will trigger time shift. While going back to time will only trigger paradox, meaning whatever must happen will happen(e.g death, bomb , etc)
Anyway, Tutturu!!
Since nobody seem to be in mood for it and the show been in a dark mood for ages now. How I missed it.
I don’t know about physical time travel (Suzu’s case because it appears she was affected by Okarin’s actions) but with Okarin’s two time manipulation methods, events don’t change right away with the time leap.
Okarin jumps back into the same timeline and if he does nothing different, nothing will change. Just leaping does nothing. He himself has not even changed, just his memories of the future have been added. When Okarin tries to do something different, they are small things which are easily undone by “fate” so major events don’t appear to change significantly, just small changes.
With D-mail, the Butterfly Effect permits a small change in the past to ripple outward but it’s unpredictable and unreliable.
Erm, so, each method has it’s pros and cons.
But I see something now: it looks like the only changes noticed on the divergence meter is an abrupt change Okarin notices. If it’s a slow change (such as leaping), it goes unregistered because Okarin witnesses any changes he’s directly caused as it happens and there is no abrupt shift. Perhaps this is why time leap cannot result in worldline shift: it’s not possible for one person to make a significant enough change in a short amount of time. If he could go back farther, the case might be different.
WIth the D-mail, Okarin doesn’t relive the events of the past, so the shift occurs since change happens instantaneously in Okarin’s experience.
So I’m not even sure what the divergence meter is reading; it just appears to be reading Okarin’s experiences of time shift rather than if anything at all changed. But he made it (notice the lighted numbers are the same as on the Phone-microwave!) based on his experience, so, it’s normal I guess.
You forgot to mention the pro and con of Suzuha’s time travel machine.
Short-term: Time Leap
Mid-Term: D-Mail
Long-term: Time Machine
The time machine that Suzuha has enable you to travel to the past physically at any point in time. The problem is that it can ONLY travel to the past, not the future. Thus it is a one-way ticket.
Each method is coined in terms of their ability to travel back to time with time leap 48 hours to 17 years on D-mail to 70,000,000 years in time machine.
Chaos: Yeah, I was only interested in Okarin’s methods since I don’t know enough about Suzuha’s physical travel and how it might affect the divergence meter.
Somebody needs to make a few charts… of the time travel/manipulation methods, timeline of events and line jumping/changes, ect…
does Mr. Braun not realize his caretaker and part-timer looked alike?
probably not – he met adult Suzuha somewhere in the 1990s, which means she had been in her 30’s and not much looking like that brat he was hiring just a few days ago before she suddenly left…
BTW. 2010 era bike would be miracle of engineering in 1975…
oh you just killed a cat girl!
Despite what Enzo stated, I don’t think Makise is dead. The D-meter did however when back up to where it was originally before Suzuha’s D-mail. I was surprised a lot of you missed a vital point that the show display in the end of this episode: Mayuri was alive. The missing assumption is Suzuha is dead. You can draw the conclusion that one person must died in Stein;Gate. Before it was Makise, then shifted to Mayuri, now it is Suzuha.
Logically, the next step is obvious. To save Suzuha, another person must take her fate. Ultimately, I have a feeling that the one that needed to died is…no other than Okarin himself.
If you recalled, Okarin is the one responsible for everything. It was his idea to become a mad scientist and built the time machine which SERN later stole to develop a better version of it. Only his death will fixed everything. Killing Okarin now is pointless seeing that he has already built the microwave-phone and tested it. So when does Okarin needed to died? The point where he decided to become a mad scientist, I assume it was during his childhood with Mayuri. It’s sad, but true…
Another way of looking at this is to assume that Okarin was destined to died, but somehow he was saved so his fate was transfer to somebody else. I assume it was transfer to Mayuri if you recalled the childhood scene where she claimed she saved his life.
Oooohkay, I think i have it worked out now…
Show Spoiler ▼
Mr. Braun doesn’t realize Suzu and Suzuha are the same because assuming a single person can only be in one time period, she gave up her future in 2010 where he was, to the 1970’s past. He can’t remember her if she wasn’t there.
As another thing, she uses the name Amane Suzu- what happened to the ha? If she got Okarin’s d-mail to go to the satellite and leave, and the objects inside travel with her, but lost her memory… then the cellphone might be the only thing with data on her before she left. The ‘ha’ kanji might have not been included in the e-mail address or the messages at any point- I’ll have to look back to check. At least, that’s what she uses for the time line when she forgets her memories…
By the way, do NOT NOT NOT go on the SG wikipedia page… I went to look up Suzuha’s name, and… auuuuuugh wikipedia I haaaate youuuuu!
I think what I like about this show is that it toys with the thought that time is nonlinear- that things change in the course of existing, and the future is uncertain as long as new actions aren’t taken, but still follow some united events, like Mayushii’s constant death- otherwise, the world would split from itself to another timeline with no cause or action. It’s a little bit like Schroedinger’s cat, in that until something is observed or confirmed, the cat can be both dead and alive- but this itself is prepostorous- unless there is time travel, and world lines, and changes in actions to an extent that the cat never goes in the box.
Now the things to follow up on- what did Moeka send to herself with the d-mail that changed the world line, and why did she disappear, but return when Ruka was turned into a girl (unless… Show Spoiler ▼
). Or probably- Show Spoiler ▼
Okay, I need to lie down for a bit…
I am happy this episode confirm my argument that time travel is a one-way ticket…
I knew it for a while and try to explain it to you guys, but sadly nobody believe me. I wonder how much of my speculations are true. LOL! Thus far, most of them are.
I am surprised nobody deducted that what happen to Suzuha is the same as what happen to Mayuri…
Mayuri was destined to died, now Suzuha was destined to failed. The two new twists are:
-Where is Makise?
-Grandfather Paradox
Why did I never thought about it before (the Grandfather paradox)?! Stupid me. It would seem that Stein;Gate is taking the “The present is the effects of the past PLUS the effects of any time travel” approach. What does that mean? It means that time travel maybe be futile. In other words, if the future is still rule by SERN, then time travel to the past means that it doesn’t change the future and/or contribute to it. We assume that time travel was to prevent SERN’s dystopia, but it would seem that time travel actually made it a reality or the future cannot be change. Does the movie “Terminator 3” rings a bell?
The time travel in this show is something like the many world theories. There are many parallel worlds all moving along time at the same time. The difference is that there is only one true world line. You can say that everytime a Dmail goes back in time, everyone’s conscieness/soul goes back to that time and relive everything with the new circumstances. While everyone relives the new branched off time line again including Okabe. But unlike the rest, Okabe’s “soul” does not transfer immediately, his body goes about doing stuff he would do but his his “soul” only gets transferred at the present time. As his soul does not get to relive the past, his “soul” does not forget his old memories but does not know his new ones. Which is way he does not know the difference in the worlds. But the Memory Leap is different, he is actually transferring his “soul” to the past and reliving it.
I think the secret is Okarin’s brain. We have a neuroscientist PhD who designed a way to digitize and compress memory copied from the brain. So in this story, it isn’t ‘soul’, it’s ‘brain’. This interpretation also explains Reading Steiner and memory changes, somewhat.
With D-mail, Okarin retains his brain as it was the moment a successful D-mail is sent. I suspect this is Okarin’s brain being imposed into a new world/timeline. Everyone else’s brain/memories are different because the new timeline is the only one they ever lived in. Okarin’s Reading Steiner ability is his brain’s ability to stay unchanged (thus having no memories of this new timeline). This is the only part of S;G that seems to rely on the Many Worlds theory as far as I can tell.
D-mail is chaotic because of the Butterfly Effect AND it is unpredictable because it relies on the mail’s recipient to act differently but leaves the freedom for the recipient to behave in any way. Sending a longer message might help D-mail be more useful but it still relies on the recipient to act as intended with no unforeseen results. D-mail can result in dramatic changes, but it cannot completely change ‘fate’ (relationships, winning lotto or Feryis cup, ect)
With Time Leap, ONLY Okarin’s brain changes. He is sending his memories back into his recent self and imposing them on the brain he had at the target point. Everything else remains exactly as it was originally. Hence, no shift on the divergence meter just from leaping, hence no changes in what others are inclined to do (Mayuri wanting the party, Moeka acting for FB, ect). Okarin’s Reading Steiner may not matter here, he is simply accumulating more memories in each leap and sending the growing accumulation back to his original brain. In theory, anyone could Leap and retain their future memories because that is what Time Leap IS.
Time Leap would be more powerful if it could send memories back farther in time. A single person using Leap cannot change ‘fate’, at least in the time Leap allows.
The Time Machine preserves the brain of its user by sending the user physically back in time. The brain doesn’t change at all. It is also like the Leap in that the Machine by itself does not change the Divergence Meter. The user ends up in the past exactly as it was; the user still has a brain holding the future’s events. In theory, anybody could use the Machine and retain memories, as with Leap. Reading Steiner seems to not matter here.
Changing the future by altering the past will not change the user’s brain, ie Suzuha. This part gets challenging, so please bear with me.
There’s the idea of paradox/causality. The concern is, if you went into the past and murdered your mom before you were born, how did you exist to go back to kill your mom? In S;G, if Suzuha succeeds at changing the past to prevent a time machine from being built, how did she go into the past to change this? But in this story, the problem doesn’t exist. John Titor said early on it doesn’t matter.
Suzuha goes into the past, first stopping in 2010 with her full memories of the future retained. She then went to 1975. The first time, she lost her memories. This was not due to normal operation of the time machine. I’d guess it’s related to physical trauma from the crashed machine. It’s left unstated (but suggested) she retained her memories the second time. But if Suzuha changed the past and prevented the future she remembered from occurring, her brain and memories would not change. Why?
Because she’s in the past! Even if the future will not happen as she remembers, it hasn’t happened yet so it doesn’t matter to her. The new future hasn’t (and won’t) happen for her. Her brain cannot be magically changed to remember the new future. Her new, future self in 2036 cannot ‘communicate’ with the her in 1975. The original Suzuha will always remember the future as she came from it, regardless of how her future youthful, pre-travel life turns out. In the new future, if fate permits, Suzuha will be born and not travel into the past at all. Hopefully, in the end, she’ll be born into a long, wonderful life which goes only into the future. It seems odd, since the original Suzuha already died in the past, but that’s time travel without paradox/causality. You CAN kill your mom and continue existing as you are, even if you won’t be born in the new future.
I think what time travel without paradox means that the future is not like a destination which already exists somewhere. You can manipulate the past, but everything moves forward from the current point, where ever that is. There is overwriting of events, no place or timeline in which the future is already occurring. The future is always a blank canvas (with fate influences). There is no natural information communication from a future point to a historical one. Altering in the future cannot change the past because the future has not happened yet. What the future will become has no effect on the past and time goes only one way.
Suzuha’s letter from the game.
oh thanks
but be aware guys, contain some spoiler about her goal in 1975.
Btw does the game a more BGmusic than the anime? The only drawback I can find to S;G is the poor use of BGM. They are so rarely played, and so low, I can’t remember any of them or any main theme. From what I heard the only ones are from the VN.
One more good thing about S;G is about the bamboo copter scene. I really like how they put it in the episode before, and in this one. Most current animes would have done so, as they think viewers have no brain and would forget it or would make the link unless they put it in the same episode. They know people watching S;G aren’t total idiots
Amazing stuff. The questions never end about time paradoxes and what not, but this episode ran a few emotional chills up my spine. The rollercoaster certainly helped when the episode took a tragic turn. I imagine Okabe to be much more emotionally burdened as every episode passes if not for his lab members. Imagine being the only one to remember Suzuha after sending the D-mail and going through the multiple deaths….Terrible.
As mentioned, Kurisu was conspicuously missing. Considering that she was usually the one first to ask Okabe about whether something was going on, this might have a huge impact.
Next episode looks to deal with other characters though, and I’m looking forward to what kind of rabbit they will pull out of their hats.
well that was just sad but at least she’ll be born again in the future >.<
anyways great episode XD was crying at the end
Should i watch this anime or not? Do you recommend it? Would it be a waste of my time?
Because i heard it is a good one. Im just curious, and i just wanna know what all the fuss about..
It depends on you…
If you like action and adventure like DBZ and Bleach, Stein;Gate is not for you…
If you like fantasy and horror, this is not you…
If you like romance and laugh your ass off comedy, this is not for you…
But if you like anime that is a thriller, intelligent, and something different, Stein;Gate is definitely made for you. It is a very realistic anime without all the off-the-wall fantasy. It does have some romance, comedy, and make you think twisted in many mysteries. The anime quality is very good. The characters are likable. The main theme is time travel.
I like it because it deals with with the age old question: what if I have a time machine? It circles around a list of characters who have to deal with time travel and how it affect their lives. The unexpected twisted in the anime is that it make the viewers speculate the many mysteries that are untold like trying to solve a puzzle.
So yes, I highly recommended it along with Deadman Wonderland (For gore, action, and insanity) and HOTD (for the eye candy and zombie apocalypse).
daru being a papa was “oh yeah” moment. great episode.Ive been wondering when they would tie in Makise death in the 1sp ep, always been in the back of my mind. thanks again for picking up the show and doing a great job
lol i just noticed that the divergence meter is made out of some capacitors, diode and a universal pcb
How does the D-meter even work?
I mean, how is it able to generate those numbers? Is it like a GPS that detect the distance from this timeline from the original timeline?
Why are there only 7 digits? (The decimal being the 8th)
GAAAAHHHHH!!!! The “I failed and forgive me” confession was one of the most heartbreaking thing I heard in the media industry.
Now with Okabe using the D-mail again, things have changed and Okabe has no idea what is in store… From the looks of it, the lab looks very empty and clean, like they have no even begun building the phone microwave. Now that will really spice things up, conflicts will continue to arise and maybe less important characters like Ferris and the boy\girl will have a more important role to play.
I kinda miss Okabe’s goofy antics and his mad scientist personality. But that will be very inappropriate for this episode.
Whoah, whoah, whoah there, Guardian Enzo. Suzuha did not lose her memory in the end. She had lost her memory in the other time line due to imperfections in Daru’s repairs. Since, in Okarin’s current time line, she departed for the 70s before the lightning hit the craft, the time machine functioned as well as it ever had. She did, indeed, keep her memories, just as she had when she travelled from the 2030s. Rewatch the episode. Even while she was dying, she was obsessing over the numbers, wondering if she had succeeded, and even wondering whether she would be able to notice whether she had succeeded, as she and everyone else but Okarin seems to lack the Steins-whatever.
Wolf is absolutely right, Suzuha only lost her memories because of Daru’s poor repair job. But because Okabe prevented this event altogether with his D-mail, Suzuha was able to reach 1975 before her time machine broke, thus arriving there safely with her memories intact.
Now to answer Enzo’s other question: Why didn’t Suzuha leave a letter?
Okabe sending the D-mail would mean that all the time that they spent with Suzuha would have never happened (Obviously because Suzuha would be in 1975 instead of 2010. Also, recall that Mayushi tried to stop Okabe for this very reason). Since Suzuha would have never met the lab members, she would have no reason to send them a letter.
……she should’ve wore a helmet. ;_;
you sir, have given me a laugh amidst of all this despair…thank you XD
Guardian Enzo, your last line reminded me of the main male character of Angel Beats which was the only one left after saying goodbye to all his friends by the end of the series. He carried on nonetheless to help others “graduate” while he was the sole soul to remember and to know where and why everyone was there. Thanks for the review.
HOLY SHIT THIS EPISODE IS AMAZING!!