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「主と従者」 (Aruji to Juusha)
“Master and Servant”
The lengthy exposition in Fate/Zero continues, and while the thought did cross my mind that I’m too forgiving of it compared to To Aru Majutsu no Index, I really don’t think that’s the case when I haven’t read the light novels of either adaptation. Compared to Index, it’s a lot easier to get a grasp of what’s going on in Fate/Zero thanks to the relatively structured nature of the Holy Grail War. We know there are seven Masters and with them seven Servants, and the story develops within the confines of that foundation, depicting their contrasting motives and personalities when they’re alone with their Servants and building up anticipation toward the inevitable battles.
Thus far, there’s been nothing boring about getting more acquainted with the characters — especially charismatic ones like Rider who had me laughing with him upon seeing Waver’s displeased look — as that familiarity makes me care about what happens in them in the war. This includes fearing the worst for Waver after hearing Rider’s line in the preview last time, which luckily turned out to be nothing more than a red herring. I wouldn’t have considered that “lucky” if I didn’t care to see more of both Waver and Rider, which to me says that the exposition here is doing something right. The last thing I wanted to see was the two of them take an early exit when they fearlessly stormed into Caster’s hideout and encountered Kirei’s Assassins. That was right after some rather touching moments where Rider was genuinely impressed by Waver’s alchemy and tried his best to spare him from the gruesome scene of Ryuunosuke and Caster’s killings too. On a related note, I’m somewhat saddened by the mere thought of Rider getting killed, which is highly probably since Waver is an unlikely candidate to go far in the war. The best I can hope for is that he survives and that Rider goes out gloriously protecting him.
On the other end of the Master/Servant spectrum, we have Sola forcibly taking Kayneth’s Command Seals from him and becoming Lancer’s new Master. I was anticipating as much, judging from the preview last time, but not to such a torturous extent where she had Kayneth at her mercy and started “convincing him” by breaking his fingers. I never thought I’d feel sorry for Kayneth, but seeing Sola under the influence of Lancer’s love spot did just that. For that very reason, I loved how Lancer gave her his “Knight before a Servant” justification and turned her down as his new Master, forcing a completely love-struck Sola to lie right to his face about how obtaining the Holy Grail for Kayneth’s sake is her only motive. I think it was pretty clear that Sola would’ve agreed to anything to be with Lancer, and I haven’t even ruled out the possibility that she’s saving one of the Command Seals to get him to make love to her. The interesting part is how Lancer’s aware that she’s under the effects of his charm, upon seeing the similarities between Sola’s look and Gráinne’s (Nakagawa Rie), the intended wife of Fianna leader Fionn mac Cumhaill (Kusumi Naomi) whom he inadvertently charmed and betrayed his leader for. Judging from his past, I can already foresee a lot of emotional baggage resulting in this newly-formed contract, which is on top of the fact that Lancer still sees Kayneth as his Master. The heavily condensed version of the events leading up to his death probably won’t won’t mean much to those who aren’t familiar with the Irish myth involving Diarmuid Ua Duibhne, but for those who are, its inclusion here helped reinforce the notion that he doesn’t intent to betray his lord this time around. (For those who aren’t, I suggest giving the quick rundown a read.)
With all that going on, Kiritsugu’s side of things was kind of lost in the shuffle; however, it didn’t require much time for him to make a point of how he hates Saber’s knightly code of honor. As heartless as it may sound, I have to agree with him on how it’s not his “job” to save the children that Ryuunosuke and Caster are killing. He’s a professional assassin and his obligation is to the Einzbern family. Because of that, I can definitely understand how he’s upset with Saber letting Lancer come to Kayneth’s aid last time. Some people thought it was really stupid of Saber to just hold Lancer to his word that he wouldn’t harm her Master, so it should come as a welcomed development to see that Kiritsugu agrees. For me, I never really had a problem with Saber’s honorable conduct since it defines her character, but I have to concede it was a pretty dumb move in this case. What I do like is how it exemplifies further discord between Kiritsugu and Saber’s personalities — something that Kiritsugu anticipated from the very beginning — and keeps things interesting with Irisviel caught in the middle. Of course, with the preview alluding to more screen time for both Rin and Kariya, that should prove to be just as interesting.
* Full-length image: 07.
Preview
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Yeah yeah, fantastic episode like always, what’s new. Yeah yeah, great characters with strong back stories. Yeah yeah, interesting plot developments along with characters who refuse to remain static and progress as the story goes on. Yeah yeah, one of the best series this year, yeah yeah. What’s new?
right. just dismiss everything he said and ask “whats new?”.
Lol, I’m just kidding around. It’s just that this series has never really had an episode below fantastic.
Geez guys, he was obviously joking and praising the series, no need to be so hard on him.
Rider/Iskandar is now my favorite character
hyped for the next episodes 🙂
Only NOW is he your favorite? Buddy, by the time he had interrupted the fight at the docks and summarily steamrolled Berserker with that chariot of his, he’d already won me over.
Not to mention the scene with his new T-shirt.
And now he has PANTS!
I though he get pants AFTER he kill one Servant?! Oh Well, he is still FANTASTIC!
It’s because Rider’s just that EPIC, lol.
He did kill an assassin
Its interesting how leaving out one small detail changes so many peoples perceptions isnt it?
From what i have seen, most people are assuming that sola is only betraying kayneth because she has been charmed by his mole, and thus is not really responsible for her actions, but what the novel mentions, and that the anime has left out entirely is that sola is a trained mage.
She may not be as strong as kayneth, with nothing as strong as his mercury, but she still has ability and has been well trained. The point is, that as a trained mage Sola is fully capable of resisting the effect of Lancers mole. Female mages can resist its power, such as how Irir wasnt effected when Saber fought Lancer(though in Iri’s case its more that she has resistance because she is a homunculus then a mage, but still). The fact that she is still acting love struck, shows that she willingly choose to give in to the charms power, and is therefore completely responsible for her actions.
The anime’s made it pretty clear she’s a mage — she supplied mana for the summon and mentioned that she has spells this episode — but the fact that you’re alluding to idea that she’s resisting the effects does seem like a spoiler.
No, no, im not trying to spoil anything that may happen in the future, what im saying is that as of now, she ISN’T resisting the mole, not that she is. She has chosen to let it affect her when she could resit its effects with her abilities as a mage. That’s all im saying.
People have been making it sound like she is also a victim who has been enchanted by Lancer, but that’s not true, she choose this. That’s what i don’t think the anime has made clear.
i kinda don’t think that’s much of a spoiler either. So Sola is a trained magus yet she, as a women, is still vulnerable to such charms. Not much of a magus.
on the unrelated note- I am sort of SHOCKED that advanced weapons such as firearms are considered USELESS on servants. After seeing Lancer’s past, which I love how well defined it was, it looked like people back then aren’t any physically different from the people of today. Most people would think that it would be impossible that people with such primitive weapons, the servants, to be able to easily deflect bullets like Lancer did, otherwise the Boxing War would have different results in history. It’s a shame that Emiya didn’t use his tactics on Lancer, like he did with Keyneth, otherwise that would be so interesting to watch.
@takashid:
Oh, I misread that. *Not* resisting. Fair enough.
@Loo2
Servants are no longer “normal” people. They have strength and durability much, much higher than any normal human.
@L002
Heh, well the problem is not that they are “considered” useless, they ARE useless. It wasn’t mentioned in the anime, but normal physical attacks cannot hurt Servants at all. You could shoot even the weakest servant point blank with an anti material rifle and it would just knock them back without hurting them. To kill a servant, you need a special weapon that can damage spiritual entities (Powerful magic works too).
Also, while it’s not shown as explicitly in the anime, the novels make a point at just how far above humans servants are in physical power. Servants fight at speeds way above the sound barrier, every slash makes a sonic boom. In the servant ranking system, even a D in strength means they have the power of 10+ average humans. There’s a reason why Lancer can wield TWO Lances in an impossible manner.
I got the impression that the effect took her by surprise, and by the time she might’ve been resisting it, it was kinda too late.
Whatever the case she seems pretty deep in it now and I doubt she will be easily focused from this point onward. It is too bad Lancer is so honourable, or he could use this advantage over her to become a serious wild-card.
What about Shirou and Gilgamesh in Unlimited Blade Works?
Shirou projects and uses Noble Phantasms so i don’t think his attacks are considered “normal”.
@Loo2
Servants are far superior to humans, if Kiritsugu tried to fight Lancer last episode he would have gotten skewered.
@Widdershins
That’s not how a magus’s magic resistance works. Simply by virtue of having functioning magic circuits, a magus is supposed to be able to automatically remove any magecraft affecting their minds because of their own prana running through their magic circuits, unless the magus in question really sucks, like Shirou. Defense against Lancer’s mole isn’t something that needs to be consciously activated, but something that needs to be consciously deactivated.
@CobaltPhi I will admit that I am not at all versed in this lore. It’s bloody complicated, holy crap.
Ha, I’d choose Lancer too if i had to be stuck with Kayneth as a husband.
I second that.
So, does this mean the Love Spot crosses the fourth wall?
If so, then let’s just hope that it does not get Midorikawa Hikaru (Lancer’s seiyu) killed by angry husbands in real life.
Well obviously Lancer is cooler than Kayneth, but Sola has gone far beyond what is acceptable behavior to a nevertheless doting husband :\
Come to think of it, Iri was not affected by Lancer. What this due to her non-human nature? Or was it because she resisted it?
She resisted it.
To those of you that are curious, and didn’t read the light novel, what Waver saw wasn’t just a bunch of corpses hacked into pieces, Caster’s master is done with such a low “quality” of art. To be exact, Waver was expecting something like that, but it was….., well read here and you would see.
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Fate/Zero:Act_8#-106:08:19
It was nice to see Waver being well somewhat main characterish, I can imagine a lot of people would like Waver to be the main character. He seems more suitable as a main character than Shirou was in Fate/stay night.
I am also enjoying this really nice soap opera of Lancer’s previous life and current life, on the interesting note, he had a sword and was dressed somewhat differently. Not to mention, in his legend, it was said that Lancer was geis (hypnotized) into kidnapping Grainne, but it looked like his free will from my view. Anyway, I am interested to see more on Lancer now that he switched masters.
https://randomc.net/image/Fate%20Zero/Fate%20Zero%20-%2009%20-%20Large%2005.jpg
I find it interesting how we get to see these heroic spirits via memory lane, even though they were not summoned in the War, we at least get to see them and how they were. The sad part is that we don’t get to see their Noble Phantasm though.
That’s interesting. Perhaps it will be revealed later on that he *WAS* hypnotized; in that case he did not betray his master (not on free will anyways). That will certainly ease his guilt and lower his will to fight in this war.
To clear up misconceptions, a geis is a spell or a vow which cannot be broken without severe consequences, such as death. It’s very far away from hypnotism.
Blame Code Geass for the misconception ;P
Thanks for the link. Is this from the novel?
If so, I must say that’s some terribly wooden writing. 🙁
That link is the only translation of the novel that I know of. But apparently those translators don’t understand english grammar perfectly. (or japanese is harder to translate than I realize)
Team Lancer is definitely screwed up. Kayneth is an arrogant elitist prick with no magic and simply can’t comprehend the fact that his servant is loyal to him no matter what. Sola-Ui is a manipulative women who doesn’t care for Kayneth and has her priorities wrong. And Lancer himself is so stuck up in honor and loyalty that he can’t understand his masters don’t deserve him. Hello to the hundred death flags they have tripped.
Team Saber is no better, Kiritsugu being all practical while Saber keeps crying for chivalry. I find it funny that it was Saber who spared Caster the first time and now she insists on finding him.
Thankfully Team Rider is the bright spot, showing actual camaraderie. Waver is finally understanding what he is up against, and Rider has shown compassion and protectiveness to his Master.
I think you’re forgetting team Archer, their formation is solid as a rock. Archer in the front lines while Assassins hiding in the shadows to kill the master, when given the chance.
Though I so want Berserker to show himself more often. I’m a bleach fan, and I love how people like him show his insanity while fighting.
As Gil said, Tokiomi is boring and therefore not worth mentioning. Even Assassin jobbed to Rider this episode.
I have to disagree with the solidity of Team Archer. Tokiomi’s only ever tried once to rein in Gilgamesh, and needed to use a Command Seal to force Gilgamesh to retreat.
With the Independent Action attribute for the Archer class letting Gil do whatever he wants, combined with his level of arrogance, Tokiomi’s the one bending over to make sure that Gil’s not mad at him so that Tokiomi will get what he wants without wasting the rest of his Command Seals.
I actually think the Caster Team is the most functional one; although that’s partially because Caster’s master is almost invisible in this show.
This episode is a good reminder on how smart actually Waver is that he manages to wriggle his way into the Holy Grail war at the first place. Funny how Tokiomi comments that Waver is just a third rate magician, but Waver is actually the one to find Caster’s lair the first. Even if Caster were there, Iskandar would likely manage to kill him, given how easily he tramples all of those… cthulhus along the sewer. Rider x Waver bromance FTW! And that doesn’t feel gay at the slightest!
Too bad for lancer 🙁 being a lancer seems to be doomed to irony and betrayal in fate series :/
And little Rin in action next episode!! Fingers crossed she is as entertaining as adult Rin 😀 although usually having little girl trying to involve herself in adults’ business end in pretty bad result…
I come here thinking this scene would be SS, but seem like i was wrong.
Still, it looks amazing, no matter how many times i look at it [=
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/chikvn/Rider.jpg
The lengthy exposition in Fate/Zero continues, and while the thought did cross my mind that I’m too forgiving of it compared to To Aru Majutsu no Index, I really don’t think that’s the case when I haven’t read the light novels of either adaptation. Compared to Index, it’s a lot easier to get a grasp of what’s going on in Fate/Zero thanks to the relatively structured nature of the Holy Grail War.
I don’t know how much of a comparison can really be made, the stories are very different. Fate/Zero is 4 volumes, tells its story, and is done. Index is some stupidly large number of volumes and is still going, still adding new characters, and just generally bloated to hell and back.
Granted, I pretty much actively dislike Index in general, and Touma in particular, so I’m somewhat biased.
(I’d say my enthusiasm for Horizon is more questionable considering my opinion of Index, if we’re going to be fair)
The comparison was merely about their exposition and its delivery, nothing more.
Fair enough.
You also have to take into account the quality of the writer of the exposition…
All this honor-bashing of Saber and Lancer is beside the point, I think. Honor isn’t a choice for them – it’s intrinsic to their very identity. “Death before dishonor” has very real meaning for Knights of their eras who lived by a chivalric code. That’s why the real life Diarmuid was so dismayed that he betrayed his Lord under a geis, and that’s why the F/Z Diarmuid is so determined to use his second chance at existence to make up for dying in dishonor the first time.
Right. Saber can’t not be honorable. And Lancer can’t either. But similarly, its almost impossible for Kiritsugu to understand this philosophy. Its so diametrically opposed to everything he stands for. On the other hand, while Iri may not agree with Saber, she understands where she’s coming from.
This will contain some spoilers for Fate/Stay Night (maybe, but just in case)
Show Spoiler ▼
Its interesting that this war has such honorable servants, and such dishonorable masters.
Saber and Shirou may have somewhat similar philosophies, but they’re hardly the same. While Kiritsugu is on one end of the scale for Saber, Shirou is on the opposite end for her too.
Kiritsugu is willing to take virtually any measure to defeat an opponent, including underhanded sneak attacks and such whereas she would rather fight the opponent face to face in a “fair” fight. However, she is NOT above slaying that opponent either in that battle whereas Shirou, as we see in Fate/Stay Night is someone who really isn’t willing to kill ANYONE or have anyone else die, even if they’re by all means an enemy in some capacity (as we saw with Rin, Ilya, Shinji, etc), which also clashes with Saber’s views and why she gets annoyed and frustrated with him.
I don’t know if anyone was “bashing” their honor per se. It was more highlighting how it doesn’t suit Kiritsugu’s methods. Also, if Kayneth wasn’t down and out last time, he could’ve used a Command Seal to order Lancer to kill Kiritsugu.
I see where you’re coming from but it still doesn’t sit well with me one bit. It seems like Saber and Lancer are following the code of honor blindly and have forgotten the aim of this Holy Grail War. One can argue that by putting Kiritsugu in danger last week, Saber has violated that very knightly code of honor that she stands for. I would even say she was acting out on pride rather than honor over there. At the very least, Lancer and Rider put the safety of their masters above all else. Saber was just being a fool last week, plain and simple and I’m glad Kiritsugu agrees. Lancer’s loyalty to his master is admirable but that would most certainly be his ultimate downfall as the flashback scenes have foreshadowed. He lacks the common sense to survive in this battle royale and I would say he shouldn’t even be here in the first place if his eyes aren’t set on winning the Holy Grail. Rider is an honorable servant but he’s also one who’s more rational and reasonable, and that sets him apart from Saber and Lancer.
Oh, its certainly a massive blindspot, and its one of Saber’s major weaknesses.
I do agree that Saber was dumb last week.
However keep in mind that Saber was a king during her lifetime, so “protecting master” isn’t all that important to her since she has no king to protect. Besides, in this war Saber swore her knightly allegiance to Iri,not Kiritsugu (so Iri can act as her proxy-master without command seals), so the “master” saber will protect at all cost is actually Iri.
Like someone mentioned in the post above mine, it’s pretty clear Saber’s allegiance lies with Iri, as a knight. Sure she’s bound to Kiritsugu due to the Command Spells, but it’s pretty clear they don’t agree with each other’s methods; in fact it’s Iri who orders Saber around and acts as her Master.
Another thing to take into account when Saber let Lancer go is the importance of honor between them. I don’t find it that jarring considering they are both knights; their emphasis on it might not seem practical, but it’s who they are, and makes up the core of the moral codes in the time periods they come from. It’s not odd for Saber to let Lancer go to Kayneth because in her mind, their honor and pride as knights prevent Lancer from killing Kiritsugu. I believe Lancer says as much when he makes his escape. Not to say what she did is entirely practical, but it’s completely in character and I personally didn’t find it that jarring.
In fact, it’s Saber’s strict code of honor that creates most of the conflict with Kiritsugu and it’s one of the most important dynamics in the story that makes it so appealing.It’s pragmatism vs. idealism, and it’s playing out quite well.
What kind of stupid logic is “She’s sworn her loyalty to Iri, not Kiritsugu”? You do realize that if Kiritsugu dies, then they’re fucked. Cause Saber can’t do shit by herself and even if she managed to change masters in time after Kiritsugu dies, Irisviel wouldn’t last a day on her own.
Jack, you do realize that if logic and cold efficiency are the only things that factor in the Fourth War, then all of them would have been as ruthless as Kiritsugu, correct? Thing is, servants like Saber and Lancer are bound by principles that mean as much as their lives, if not more. Ask yourself: Is Saber willing to sacrifice those principles just to win the war?
Really, people, why are we judging values of the past using standards of the present?
It is funny that Saber and Lancer are in a very similar situation (as of episode 9): They pledge their allegiance to someone that doesn’t/no longer hold their command seals (Saber to Iri, Lancer to Kayneth), yet Saber got bashed as dumb while Lancer got hailed as loyal.
Where did you guys got Saber sworn her loyalty to Iris? She did no such thing. She does, certainly, likes Iris more then Kiritsugu and would rather have her as her master, but she knows full well her master is Kiritsugu and she act as such. For her to be paired wit Iris in the first place it was Kiritsugu’s idea, and both are just following his lead.
It is a completely different situation then Lancer. Iris is not even a real master, unlike Sola. She never had and could never have the command seals even if Kiritsugu wanted to. Not to mention Iris and Kiritsugu’s goal are one and the same.
@Heath
It is in the novel, explained word by word.
But I think this is pretty obvious already in the Anime. Saber was ready to defend Iri to the death during her first battle,even when all odds were stacked against her ( Berserker and Lancer).
Thats because Kiritsugu told Saber to defend Iri to the death.
Lancer only cares about winning because Kayneth cares about winning. His entire motivation is to serve his master, in this case Kayneth, ’till death takes him or his oathes fulfilled. His knightly honor may hinder the goal, but without it the goal would not exist.
Unfortunately for him, Kayneth is an elitist asshole who does not understand this at all and Sola has let herself go completely Yandere for him, so he’s going to get the short end of the stick again.
The “old code” of chivalry, as defined by some historians (emphasis mine):
A Knight, is sworn to valor
His heart knows only virtue
His blade defends the helpless
His might upholds the weak
His word speaks only truth
His wrath undoes the wicked.
Too bad most real-life knights only pay lip service to their own code, as history tells us as well.
Most? I know only 3 who held the code until they died: Richard the Lion Heart, Saladin and Jeanne d’Arc.
And Bowen in “Dragonheart”.
The “truth” behind chivalry that fantasy literature forgot to mention:
A concept that medieval aristocrat made up to keep capitalism and competition subdued, ensuring generations of “nobles” remain rich and famous while the poor are subordinated 😛
You know, I really find the talk of “death flags” for this show to be hilarious. It would be more accurate to discuss “life flags”.
Can’t wait to see Rin again next time. Even at age 6 she’s gotta be a dozen times more interesting than her father.
Yea you are right. Since it’s a prequel and because of the Holy Grail War structure we already know most of the death that will happen.
The only one that is still unknown is Waver, really. Sola-Ui, Kayneth and Ryuunosuke are antagonists not likeable characters so I don’t really care too much; Kariya’s fate is sealed from the start.
More informed individuals already know about Waver’s fate, really. I’m not even talking about reading about it from the light novel.
That’s new. I guess he was also mentioned in FSN, then. I must have missed it.
Actually I misread Aizen’s comment. Never mind.
Waiver takes Kayneth’s position as master of clock tower.
Waver isn’t unknown. Since Show Spoiler ▼
@Supa Tenko: The fuck is wrong with you posting that spoiler?
Even if it is somehow mentioned in the FSN VN (I dont remember) that was clearly a dick move to post it w/o spoiler space.
Just few minute details i noticed:
-The assassins are not using Dirks (or maybe those are Dirks but in different shape than in FSN, i have no idea).
-Waver is holding his chopsticks wrongly (lol).
I just looked back at that scene. How the hell is Waver holding up his chopsticks? Does he use magic for that too?
I noticed it when watching too; he might be holding it improperly, but it’s really just his middle finger moved up so it’s holding the upper chopstick differently. Different, but it still works, I tried it just now. Just remember that he isn’t actually Japanese, he’s from England.
Enjoyed this episode as usual. It looks like Kirei is starting to agree with Gil that Tokiomi is “boring”
Hmm, I forgot to say something about that. Oh well. 🙂
I don’t understand in what way is he ‘boring’ though. It sounds like he is a good mentor and lightly patted Kirei on his back when things didn’t go the way he wanted to.
The only thing reason I can think of right now is that Tokiomi is only interested in Magic (or True Magic) – maybe he is thinking about acquiring Heaven’s Feel? That’s probably not on Kirei’s or Gilgamesh’s top priority list.
Or that Tokiomi has the same problem as Saber and Lancer – pride. Rin in FSN often mentions the magician’s pride; maybe this is something she inherited from her father.
He’s kind of boring to a thrill-seeker as Gil is (very mismatched). All he seems to do is sit on his basement, watching candles burn and swirl his glass of wine.
Primarily, I’d guess the “boring” part of Tokiomi is how he’s all about secretly manipulating things behind the scenes without really exposing himself and uses others in a similar fashion (like Kirei and Assassin). Gilgamesh, as we know from his attitude, is all about going out and proving himself superior to everyone else as the strongest, as we saw when he wanted to obliterate Berserker, when he was holding his initial attacks back, before Tokiomi forced him to withdraw.
We already saw Kirei is also willing to go out and fight himself a couple times too, so Gilgamesh would be more interested in him than Tokiomi.
I guess all that talk by Tokiomi about how things should be done “elegantly”, even in battle, doesn’t help either, lol.
It’s interesting to compare Tokiomi’s methods to Waver’s. Tokiomi, a first class mage, is secretly manipulating everyone to achieve his goal. On the other hand, you have Waver, supposedly a third class mage, going into the front-lines himself to achieve his objectives.
Rider even mentions how using a simple method (Waver)to accomplish a goal is superior to a complex method (Tokiomi).
A very interesting episode that goes far deeper than what I expected. One of the main attraction of the Fate series has always been the usage of actual historical/mythological figures and their legends into the main story. However, this is the first time I realize just how much potential this plot element holds. In Fate/Stay Night, it was more of the “cool, their legend is represented in their strongest attacks.” For most of the servants (except Saber, obviously), that was the case. However, this episode showed me how much more this plot element is being used to its full potential in Fate/Zero. Melding Lancer’s legend into his master’s own peculiar situation (having Sola, his fiance, as a prana-source)has created an extremely compelling situation wrought by his tragedy repeating itself.
UFOtable was able to play out this situation with the minimum amount of necessary exposition to get the point across. Though intriguing, the impact of Lancer’s curse and what it implies for him and Kayneth didn’t hit me until I read more on Diarmuid’s legend and reading that section of the Fate/Zero novel. The novel revealed more of the torment that Lancer’s going through at the moment: How his second chance is being destroyed by the same curse that let to his demise and the irony of how his only chance now of fulfilling his wish is by (reluctantly) following down the same path again.
Unfortunately the constraints of a 20 min episode prevent this exposition from being played out, I’m impressed how UFOtable handled this part without going into long-winded introspection, which, while interesting, is boring to watch. But I’m more impressed (than I already am) by just how well-constructed the story of Fate/Zero is. They somehow made, Kayneth, a secondary character, go from a cocky bastard that the audience wants dead to tragic figure whose ultimate demise may come from the same exact thing that caused his servant’s demise. The 16 pages that I read told me so much more about Lancer’s character than any one episode can possibly show. I will continue to look forward to this side-plot with much interest since I’ve only read the novel up to this point in the series.
tl;dr – That mole is OP.
Sorry, Sola is a mana source for maintaining Lancer, not prana. I get the two mixed up sometimes.
I believe they’re synonymous no?
I’m not too sure myself, even when I posted that. I’m not well-informed in that subject. Maybe someone would like to clarify that for me. I think my understanding is that mana is for maintaining actual magic while prana was for magecraft.
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Prana
Type-Moon wiki explains quite well, but is still somewhat confusing. From what I can see, in it’s raw state, prana is known as either mana or od: mana coming from the world, and od from within a living organism. Once this energy has gone through conversion through Magic Circuits, it is referred to as prana. This energy is measured as “units of prana”, whether it’s current state is mana or od.
From what I can see in the story though, most of the time magical energy is referred to as “maryoku/魔力”, which could arguably be translated either way. Strictly speaking, in the Nasuverse it should be translated to prana (since mana is known as “マナ” and od as “オド”), but a translator might choose mana instead if they aren’t familiar with the Nasuverse, since it is more commonly used as the term of choice in most fantasy stories as magical energy.
BTW, anyone giggle a bit when Sola-Ui threatened to cut off Kayneth’s arm?
Team Lancer always has problems with arms, don’t they?
Giggle? I found that creepy.
Look up what happened to Lancer’s original master in the 5th war.
Yeah, its disturbing and creepy, but…also a little giggle-worthy, as any good bonus reference should be.
I think it was explained in the Fate scenario in Fate/Stay Night that:
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There might be more elaboration of this in FHA? I am not too familiar with that work, however.
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I don’t think so though.
Just looking at the family names, they shouldn’t be related in any way. The Fraga bloodline is said to isolate themselves at a village or something, while the Sophia-ri family is a pretty famous one.
Ah right. *HER*.
I am not even sure if I want to consider FHA canon (it probably is, but I am just not willing to accept it) – because as far as I know, FHA kind of negates everything Shirou did in FSN.
Eh, not really. Is 100% canon.
Is just a Show Spoiler ▼
Both F/SN Lancer and F/Z Lancer has Luck Rank E and Fate/Extra Lancer has Luck Rank D. I think its just that Lancers are always fated to be screwed in both life and their life as servants.
For the record, even if she had cut off his arm off to get the command seals, he wouldn’t have felt it. The anime didn’t make it too obvious, apparently, but Kayneth can’t feel his body thanks to what happened last episode.
Not that it made that scene any less cringe-worthy, but still…
It was pretty obvious to me. Sola-Ui bent his fingers and he didn’t say “ouch” or anything like that. Kayneth is probably paralyzed neck-down now.
Man, I feel bad for Lancer. He seems like such a swell guy, but it seems like he’s always surrounded by dbags. That I love how Kiritsugu is mad at Saber for her stupidity on how she handled lancer.
Another great episode, can’t wait for the uncensored version. Definitely a must buy.
And I’m already excited for the next episode, can’t wait and see what our lil’ tsundere princess Rin will add to the this epic show.
Just an unimportant reference, but I like how they incorporate rider’s encouraging comment on waver’s technique (which waver himself regretfully deems as too simple and not cool enough). It seems to act like a reminder on how alexander himself solved the gordius knot.
I guess actually most masters have something in common with their servants 🙂
What Waver did was really not that smart.
If I were him, I would test the first and the last test cubes first, then the one in the middle in each subsequent trial. That way I minimize the number of test cubes I need to test.
While this is true, its not like each test took a long time. It looked, in terms of effort once he had all his materials together, no more complex than PH Test.
Sure, the end-point method may have been marginally faster, but not so much that just going lineally was a huge drawback.
I would at least test A and Z first. If they are both red, there is no point to test anything in the middle.
While reducing O(n) to O(log(n)) is nice in theory, the time cost of what he was doing was minimal (thirty seconds at worst), especially compared to the time cost of collecting the samples. No need making something overly complicated; plus, he had no way of knowing for sure that that pattern would emerge and was gonna have to test most or all of them anyway.
Computer science algorithms are great to play with but honestly what he was doing was the fastest and simplest however you look at it. Plus, it doesn’t confuse the viewers.
Nice how we spent moe time in this than the actual scene.
If you want to analyze his approach like that … go all the way 😉 Given the time already spent drawing the water, testing each sample is just a constant factor & doesn’t change the order at all.
I agree that it’s not Kiritsugu’s job to save the children. Caster would have to be taken care of eventually but it makes more strategic sense to get rid of Kayneth & Lancer first while he’s weakened. Plus, Caster has his eyes set on Saber anyway so he’ll come looking for her soon enough.
By the way, if I am not mistaken, Kirei’s voice was in the preview, too? if so, then I think next episode Kirei may give Rin a dagger, because we know in FSN that:
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Ass Dagger!
Nah, too soon.
Never expect amimated quality to be worse than this.
Still, for the plotful episode like this one, its exceptable though.
I really hope it doesn’t get any worse – characters out of proportion(esp. Lancer, Sola-Ui, Waver), re-used footage (Archer), cheesy camera movements (Waver and Rider’s exit scene)…
dang.
Dude needs a band aid on his mole. Would’ve saved him a ton of trouble.
Easier said than done, I’d say. He’d need something similar to Shiki Tohnos glasses, after all…
Medusa had that visor thing to block her Mystic Eyes of Petrification. Maybe Lancer here could use a mask of the same material to cover that part of his face?
I wonder if he ever thought of using his spears to pluck it out.
Or a helmet.
or a paper bag
Okay, does anyone by any chance know the name of the song being played by the Orchestra in the background right at the start of the episode?
I’ve tried looking through the OST and I have had no luck figuring out name of the piece. It’s an awesome tune, does anyone know the name?
Wonder if Team Rider’s accidental discovery of Team Assassin’s secret will lead to Team Archer hunting them down per Tokiomi’s orders?
Kayneth is an arrogant and stuck-up prick, that much we can probably all agree on, though even then he must be given some sympathy for not only losing his magical powers completely (more or less), his wife has decided to dump him for his Servant (pun intended).
Poor Lancer is now watching history repeat itself once again.
Kayneth became such a wuss without his magic, lol
talk about being dependent on something your whole life
It would be curious if he meets Waver again, wouldn’t it?
Heck, maybe Waver will save Kayneth in a future episode; after that Kayneth will apologize for what he said during Waver’s class. I think that will be a good conclusion for Waver’s involvement in the Holy Grail War.
Then again, Urobuchi is not known for creating such good endings hahaha.
Fate of whatever you’re talking about *heavy spoilers*
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Oh…please,knowing it’s gen who write the story/novel, that’s definetely not going to happen,believe me^-^the only “happy ending” story that he wrote so far is Madoka Magica anyway^^
Fate Zero is a prequel, and as we all know, most prequels end in a somewhat dark note, or the story proper could not have ended in an upbeat note, i.e. we all know the story’s gonna end in tragedy, or Shirou would not have been motivated to become a “Hero of Justice” or even have a world to save come F/SN since there would have been no despair to begin with.
So I guess Urobuchi could afford to have some leeway here on how Fate Zero would end. 🙂
Oh guys. I noticed something.
Sola-Ui swore to Lancer that she will bring Kayneth the Holy Grail as HIS WIFE.
Maybe I am reading too much into it, but doesn’t that mean once she “divorce” him, she no longer has to keep her oath?
Nope, it’s the other way around, and Sola-Ui loses her “right” to command Lancer if she “divorces” Kayneth.
But the fact that she has the Command Spells means that Sola-Ui can still control Lancer.
She can only give 2 absolute orders. If the servant doesnt agree with the master, Sola cant do anything about it without using command seals. Thats why servants like Gilgamesh is considering jumping ship when hes not happy with his master while servants like Saber endures it because of her knight’s honor.
Maybe one Command Spell Show Spoiler ▼
session is all she wanted. Haha.
The funniest part is that they aren’t married yet, just engaged. So technically, she isn’t his wife.
Nice yandere face there, right?
Almost like with Mirai Nikki.
Got that Mirai Nikki feel too, although of course it’s blasphemy to even think of comparing her to a certain goddess 😉
Well Divine I think Saber trusted Lancer because she probably realized from their battle (and how he saved her from Berserker) that Lancer is also a knight who follows the knights code of honor like her, so he likely wouldnt have betrayed her unless another command seal was used on him.
Even if she did suspect betrayal, Lancer did come to her aid and saved her again from caster’s demons so her code of honor probably made her feel obligated to let Lancer go.
With that said, Rider definitely stole the show, again with his charisma. He got pants hurray, and he fearlessly charges into Caster’s lair while bulldozing hundreds of demons that gave Saber and Lancer trouble so effortlessly on his chariot was priceless. He also killed an assassin effortlessly by just chucking a knife at him, that was boss.
The end of the episode seems to be foreshadowing Kirei’s betrayal to Tokiomi very soon, as he clearly didnt like Tokiomi’s orders to keep watching instead of whatever his plan was. The flashback scene of what Gilgamesh said to him pretty much further foreshadows it and telling us what hes thinking at that moment.
well, that is definitely how saber would argue her position. but she’s wrong in this case. it doesn’t matter what lancer thinks. what if kayneth was still standing when he arrived? one command spell from him and kiritsugu would be dead.
from a strategic point of view, that was a major, MAJOR stab in the back. you can’t just let your opponents gang up against one of your own when you don’t even know the situation.
BUT- everything turned out alright i guess. if saber hadn’t done that iri would be dead. so yeah…luck.
Agreed. Being honorable and being dumb are two different matters, after all.
Yeah I get what you’re saying and I agree it was dumb. I was simply explaining it from Saber’s perspective for Divine, doesnt mean I agree with Saber’s choice =p
Ah~ a breathe of fresh air after watching an episode/series with an EXCELLENT plot development, not like that certain ongoing series which just keeps on throwing eye-candies to make up for the plot 😉
I was SOOOOOOOO nervous when Rider and Waver plunged in to Caster’s hideout, heightened to the extremes when the Assassins arrived. I really thought they’re gonna die there. Fortunately they won’t, actually in the end they’ll steamroll all the other Servants, win the war with a BANG and get the Grail!!! (nah that’s just me loving the duo so much).
“Won’t won’t?”
Sometimes I have to hold my tongue when I red the impressions here knowing perfectly well what happens from reading the novels 🙂
On a sidenote, I was disappointed that they didn’t really show the scene of carnage at Castle’s hideout… since this is a pretty graphic anime, I anticipated as much of that scene as well even if children are involved… and yet even the mighty Japanese were unable to show anything of the sort….
Just wait until the uncensored BD set, my friend. Then you’ll get to see ufotable’s take on Gen’s horrifically detailed imagination!
Much talky this episode
Lancer = guy screwed by fate and his mole
Rider = Waver’s father figure
Waver = growing up and not a bad person
Kiritsugu = ruled by the head
Saber = ruled by the heart
It’s really not a surprise. Lancer has been teased and bullied since Fate/Stay night. He also gets picked on with in Carnival Phantasm. Best of luck to Lancer…
Ah, Carnival Phantasm, of course. That other great Type/Moon adaptation.
The production team there has seemed to enjoy taking the piss on poor Lancer lately, killing him off as frequently as Kenny McCormick of South Park (in the early seasons). lol
I’m with you on this Divine, I really don’t want to see Rider get killed off, and I’m dreading it.
On another note I’m particularly interested in the fact that Kayneth saw Lancer’s past as a dream, which reminded me of when Shirou used to see Saber’s past in his dreams, and made me wonder whether this sort of thing is common between Master and Servant, or does it only work when the Master is rather injured?
It’s natural to see dreams of your servant. Show Spoiler ▼
Not to mention Shirou saw many of Saber’s dreams. That’s how the plot advanced in Fate.
Ah yes now I remember. I had also forgotten about Shirou sharing dreams with Saber when he was not injured since I have trouble remember when Shirou wasn’t injured during Fate/stay night. XD Thanks for clearing it up.
Rider goes out like the badass he is.
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iirc Show Spoiler ▼
I think this is what I’m looking forward to most in fate/zero.
probably one of the most heart rending parts in Fate/Zero… 🙁
the only thing that sucks about this episode is that it reminded me that the second half will be delayed til spring T>T
oh and does anyone think that this first half will end with either
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Rin is coming in the next episode, nothing can be better then that.
It’s clearer in the manga adaptation. Saber sworn to Iris she’ll protect her over her blade.
I meant to @ Heath with this 🙁
Just watched this EP, BRO-SKANDER is epic! He’s a real bro to Waver.
Funny thing though, Diamuid never touched Grainne sexually. According to legend, it was grainne who was ummm aggressive that she sometimes teases diarmuid that water trickling down her legs is more playful than him.
Fionn looks like lord Lebellond from the manga Ubel Blatt
God I remember that manga. It has some of the ‘hottest’ scenes XD
Fate Zero is truly one of the best this year.
I can not wait for, no sure if this is a spoiler,so Show Spoiler ▼
Hahaha, it will be Soooooo funney XD XD!
I am so waiting for that part too, it will be so epic xD
Just finished reading Fate/Zero and I am wondering, how is it possible for the anime to capture the epicness of the last two volumes in words? Right now we’re halfway through with volumes 2.
Apparently that is why they’re taking a season off in between.
If they can indeed capture the epicness and the emotions of the last 2 volumes, this anime will go down in legends i swear.
I am only worried of the 4th novel, I am shure they’ll have to cut things to make it all fit in the limited time.
Well Wikipedia says its a 2 cour series.
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I was wondering about that too.. I just finished reading it as well. The last 2 volumes were just so epic… I mean I have a lot of faith in Ufotable but it’s a lot to take up. I was crying at some of the scenes… so I hope they capture those parts well. Especially how Saber’s seiyuu will act in certain parts. Oh there are the drama cds I guess …
I know right? I felt like crying every 3 chapters in the last 2 volumes.
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Interesting. How about you go discuss how great the last two novels are somewhere else? I fear that at one point someone will once again forget to use the spoiler function.
Was Lancer beheaded in his past life? Looks like it in that scene in the begining.
In the Fate/zero novels, it doesn’t exactly give all the details on Lancer’s death, except that he feels there’s an unsettling parallel to how a woman’s love for him was ultimately his undoing.
In the myth… Show Spoiler ▼
Can’t wait for the next battle with Berserker.
I like how this new Fate is tackling the other servants and masters past, it adds depth and extra dimension to the series. When Fate/ZERO started I only cared about the servant that matters to me most in the previous Fate/Stay Night and Unlimited Blade Works which is Saber, but this time around I started to care for the other servants and masters, well done….