「人質はヴァルヴレイヴ」 (Hitojichi wa Varuvureivu)
“The Valvrave is the Hostage”

Let me say this upfront – Kakumeiki Valvrave is a show that demands a complete shut off of your left brain, and you might have to look elsewhere if a good sense of logic is what you’re seeking. Similar to Code Geass, Sunrise’s latest mecha effort is quickly carving out its own spot as a anime that is truly fascinating for its unapologetic eccentricity. In fact, one of the many things I love about this series is how it has no qualms to go totally bizarre, and when it does, there’s no compulsion to explain everything right away. It was made apparent from day one that this is a show that defy all conformities of a conventional mecha series and the latest episode is certainly no exception!

There’s a clear message that everyone is important in the show and all of the characters deserve a chance in the spotlight. After L-elf’s central role in the story last week – one where he showed how badass he truly is, it’s Shouko’s turn to shine and indeed, there’s more to her character than meets the eyes. In a mere four episodes, Shouko has blossomed into a complex and endearing figure – she is sensitive, loyal and thoughtful, but in no way less formidable than any of the male leads. It’s hard for me to overstate just how charming she is, and she was certainly bursting with irresistible charisma in this episode – not only did she rallied the students to stand up for themselves, Shouko also managed to put up a good negotiation and kept the oppressing forces from both sides at bay.  The connection that she shares with Haruto is tender and amiable, but there’s also a distinct edge of something more beyond that. Shouko’s always the first one to stick up for him most determinedly, and while it was pure happenstance that she rescued our lead from ARUS’ captivity this week, the fact that Haruto feels most at ease when she’s present is an attestation of their strong mutual trust that’s not just superficial. There’s no doubt the on-screen chemistry between Haruto and Shouko is genuine, but if Okouchi sensei’s previous work is any indication, I wouldn’t be too quick to write off Saki as a potential love interest and there’s bound to be waves of drama and commotion before all the dust is finally settled.

While Shouko was the clear stand out of this episode, it’s undeniable that L-elf’s presence also shone through whenever he made an appearance. To call him a wild card would be an understatement and he has presented so many competing agendas that I wonder if it’s even worthwhile to take anything he said at his words. He is absolutely convinced Haruto will form a contract with him – calling it a prophecy, and to his credit, it did seem like everything was going well until Shouko’s interference thwarted his plan. The sudden declaration of independence for Sakimori Academy was clearly not part of L-elf’s calculation, but if the slight smirk that emerged from his face is any clue, he’s probably unfazed by the recent development and I have a certain suspicion he’ll eventually get his own way. Then there’s a question of where does Haruto and the mysterious Valvrave fit into the picture? The revelation that JIOR’s humanoid weapon might be a sentient entity – one that has no hesitation in taking another’s life – is another interesting twist that I wasn’t expecting. For now, it seemed like Haruto is the only person capable of piloting the Valvrave and for all his amicable appearance, the sheer might of the mecha combined with his newfound body-switching abilities makes Haruto, at the very least, a force to be reckoned with – and no question, that’s something I never thought I’d be associating with him back at episode one!

Random tidbits:

  • I’m very pleased to see Shouko rubbing the “peace sign” in L-elf’s face. Then again, he doesn’t even know what the “V sign” means.
  • Don’t piss off the hot babe on that screen, “Your Mistake” indeed!
  • Shouko for President”! Politics is clearly in her blood.
  • I don’t believe you Shouko, don’t stop stripping!
  • Dude, you shouldn’t be playing with guns!
  • Call me Moses”. That one had me laughing out loud!
  • Saki’s ship was making substantial headway last week, but I’m willing to bet Shouko has regained some lost grounds after this episode.
  • Next week, we’ll be presenting idol performances starring Rukino Saki. Just how awesome can this show get! Hey, Hey, Hey, Start:Dash!

tl;dr: @SeishunRC – #Valvrave 04: I have no doubt Shouko would make a great “waifu”. The Valvrave might be a sentient entity? #Anime

    Full-length images: 08, 09, 16, 32, 34.




  1. Alright, guys! We’re going to break away from the entire colony and form our own independent country with just a bunch of kids as citizens! Don’t worry though, because we’ve got a giant robot to protect us from anything!

    Until we run out of food.

    Or power.

    Or oxygen.

    Also, let’s NOT detain that white haired guy who only showed up right before all of this crap started, clearly knows more than he’s letting on, and just called our new teenage president a bitch. TOTALLY NOT SUSPICIOUS.

      1. The show has made it clear you shouldn’t take everything too seriously. The tip offs – Saki questioning the logic behind Shouko’s decision to strip, Figaro’s “Call me Moses”, L-elf getting a good laugh about the whole situation himself, and that’s just to name a few!
        Okouchi sensei knows what he’s doing and like I said, you’re probably gonna enjoy the show more if you shut off your left brain. The plot holes are big enough to run the Valvrave through it, but frankly, there’s no point in trying to cover it up, especially when the show is so unpretentious and having so much fun with them 😉

      2. this is anime. they can tell you in the next episode that the Module has cool fusion generator that can supply energy for 5 hundreds years and it can make food and oxygen out of space dust, etc, so all the students need is only a super robot and a moe president.

      3. There are plants to recycle the air and they have an entire lake for water. They have solar panels at the bottom of the Module. They can extort food from Arus. What more else do you need?

      4. Interesting that the actual elected official couldn’t do that when a little girl could. But he shot at them with live rounds so he obviously is a fully capable senator.

      5. Uh… is there any reason he would want to rally the students against his cause? His purpose is to retrieve the Valvrave, plain and simple. (how many times do I need to repeat this point? I’m getting really sick of this.)

      6. Because maybe if he had any influence or power, he’d actually be able to get them to go along with in anyway. Or he could just threaten them at gunpoint right after they tied up Haruto so none of them could get away. Literally anything other than what he did.

      7. You should know many politicians like to pretend doing charity work to get recognition and support from his people. What Figaro’s doing is no different. Threaten the students? He has no reason to do that until the students got in his way, which by then Haruto already got into the Valvrave. He could not have predicted that the students knew he was bluffing and opposed him so strongly. It is easy to underestimate your opponents when they are students.

      1. “But they just said they weren’t going to rely on anyone.”

        You’re taking the rhetoric too literally, plus she did say they want ARUS to help them. Which they might well do to keep face while they come up with a plan to take the robot away again.

      1. Yeah, the ally who just minutes before was shooting at them and planning to leave them all behind. Also, hot-blooded high school kids are not exactly the best people to exaggerate to, especially on a topic like independence.

      2. I think you’re missing the double apostrophe. He’s forced to help them whether he likes it or not.

        If it’s necessary to boost their morale, I don’t see a problem with it. It’s clearly a necessity at the moment.

      3. You mean quotations? And even if he’s a senator (BULLSHIT), the guy’s clearly a mook, so no way would he be of any help in negotiations.

        There’ll be problems later when they’re all at each other’s throats.

      4. I don’t understand your point. A politician doesn’t suddenly lose all his influence. Why would the students fight among themselves when they are aware of the situation they are in?

      5. He has no established influence to lose. The fact that he was sent there to pick up the kid instead of someone NOT in the senate says that enough.

        Because this situation would mess anyone up to the point of wanting to kill someone.

      6. I don’t remember his first priority as saving the civilians. His first priority has always been to retrieve the Valvrave and that’s obviously an important mission.

      7. Extort ARUS? Probably not.

        Their alliance with ARUS hinges on the fact that the students are not going to hand over Valvrave to Dorssia. Requesting ARUS to provide resources would undermine the students position politically, effectively demonstrating how they are ‘not’ an independent country.

        Even presuming that other countries somehow did not find out that the students are requesting resources from ARUS, if ARUS publicly declares that they are in an alliance whilst simultaneously withholding resources to the students, the students would not be able to resort to any country. Dorssia would view the students as an enemy, whereas JIOR (if it still exists) would not want to make themselves a target in ARUS and Dorssia’s struggle and refuse to help.

        Ultimately, the students would still be at ARUS’s mercy. Nothing will have changed.

      8. The whole purpose of establishing an independent nation is to escape influence from Arus and Dorssia, not to stand equally. It does not matter whether they make an enemy out of Dorssia or Arus, they can easily put both of them as a stalemate using the Valvrave.

        You do not seem to comprehend the significance of obtaining the Valvrave. Judging from its performance, whichever country which manages to get their hands on it and mass produce it would get an instant win.

        I don’t get how would Arus be able to withhold resources when they would never take the risk of the Valvrave falling into Dorssia’s hands. The key point is how important the Valvrave is to the victory of both nation. Losing it would mean a drawn out war.

        And don’t even think of destroying the Valvrave before it falls into your enemy’s hands. None of the vessels would be able to match Valvrave’s speed, effectively rendering both nations unable to act.

      9. The kids are never going to hand over Valvrave to anyone, so neither government has to worry about that. They’re only looking for independence and they don’t know how to run crap. This whole thing is going to be resolved and over with before the show’s half way through, so why bother justifying it?

      10. Again you’re assuming the threat of the enemy having valvrave is a small one. You’re also assuming they’ll fail to govern when we have yet to see the competence of those students.

      11. So you’re saying that suddenly showing that the students are actually able to run a fully functional government without any sort of established formal training WOULDN’T be a huuuuuuge inconsistency?

      12. Never happened does not equate to impossible. Again you’re assuming the students are incompetent. There’s a huge difference between governing a community inside a Module and governing a full-blown nation.

      13. But there’s NO difference between ANY high schooler running a module or a nation in terms of how ignorant they are of governing. And the only way it’ll possibly last is a miracle/Deus Ex Machina/Plot Convenience.

      14. Actually, the fact that they’ve never run anything in their lives is enough to keep them from learning anytime soon. And last I checked, no high school students were in their 20’s.

      15. They have time, they have resources, they can learn from others. Remember, this is not a country consisting of many states with a central government, it’s only a community in a module with a single nationality. Governing that while learning is not an important task. Shoko being the president’s daughter also means she is knowledgeable in this field.

      16. Again I must hammer the point that the difficulty to govern a community is proportional to its size. Judging by its size, it is not impossible for students to do that and Shoko is with them.

      17. It’s also proportional to the experience of its staff, which besides Shouko and (maybe) the student council is ZERO. But again, this isn’t going to last long enough for it to matter.

      1. Doesn’t mean it’s not going break down at some point, and none of these kids have been established as knowing how to take care of that. Well, except for SUPAH HACKAH, but she’s being hidden. But hey, plot convenience will get them out soon enough!

      2. It’s obviously not a permanent solution, but as long as it gives them enough time to construct and carry out their next plan, I don’t see any problems with this plan.

      3. Really? Detaching a module from the colony and seceding from their country is NOT a permanent plan? The hell else are they going to do? They have no bargaining tools other than giving up Valvrave or attempting to kamikaze Dorissa.

        If you have no problems with this plan, I’m sure as hell glad you’re not in politics.

      4. You are assuming they are at a dead end when there are so many paths they can take from here. I’m prepared to let the show surprise me again like the many times it did before.

      5. That’s because if they’re trying to go for a realistic show with smart characters, this would be a definite dead-end. But they’ve shown they’re not thinking with a hint of actual logic, so at this point, nothing surprises me.

      6. Like it or not, the conflict between Dorssia and Arus aren’t going to extend more than the span of 25 -26 episodes. It’s more than enough time as a temporary solution.

      7. From what I can see of Valvrave’s firepower and performance, whichever country that acquire and mass-produce it would obtain an instant win.

        Weighting the benefits from obtaining it for themselves and the risk of the enemy acquiring it, I would say it’s well worth the risk of not destroying it and instead further their efforts to retrieve it. No one wants a drawn out war. Thus, I think the valvrave is a valid bargaining chip.

        Many people like L-11 and Figaro thought the students’ plans was preposterous, but wouldn’t a miracle be born if they were proven wrong? Never happened before does not equate to impossible.

      8. It is precisely because of the scale of the module that students cannot control such a system (I have no idea why only students were in the module anyway).

        From the scale of the module, it means that they will have to deal with oxygen, food, water, electricity, maintenance, and whatnot. Not only is that the case, but with the module cut off from the rest of the JIOR complex, it would mean that the module would be drifting off somewhere into space.

        What a great idea it was to cut off the module…

      9. The students only act aa the governing party. As you can see in the screenshots below, they are not the only occupants of the module. Obviously the occupants of the module will include maintenance workers, and other jobs that can ensure the nation runs smoothly. Sucks to be the adults though, since the only reason the students have this amount of power is due to the valvrave.



      10. Really? We haven’t seen enough Sunrise animes to know that it’s pointless to think about these things? We’re going to discuss the political and scientific legitimacy in a MECHA anime with DYSON SPHERES? Dyson Spheres are a freakin’ conceptual science idea that shouldn’t even have the necessary foundational techniques to build one until 200 or 300 years later!

        Logic and Sunrise do not go together. I don’t believe this is the first Sunrise anime anyone here has watched. And if it is, a word of advice is to just watch for entertainment, because that’s what Sunrise is marketing. You will live a tired and stressful life trying to make sense of a Sunrise anime.

        Why can we watch a slife of life, romance, drama, etc. set in PRESENT time and take it at face value while a mecha anime equates to debating about how World War 3 would happen.

        Seishun puts it best.

        Let me say this upfront – Kakumeiki Valvrave is a show that demands a complete shut off of your left brain

      11. The dyson sphere is actually a colonies surrounding a mini artificial star. As long as a stabilized fusion reactor is created, and space colony technology is available, they don’t need to be that advanced.

      12. @5over: Because Students are always more competent in government positions than adults, yes? At least if the “senator” is any indication.

        @Jello: Still doesn’t mean we can’t have a good time laughing at how the logic doesn’t go together!

      13. As long as the governing party is fair and do their job (doesn’t matter whether they are consisted of students or adults), I don’t see any reason the adults would riot. There is also nothing stopping the adults from governing together as well, although they won’t be very happy about the students making the decisions without their consent as well.

      14. And THEY’VE shown they’re all about helping the little people right? They’re more likely to just make a mecha to steal Valvrave than actually help the kids.

      15. I’m actually going by pretty much every Sunrise mecha show with huge imperial entities like ARUS and Dorissia. There is absolutely nothing to suggest this will go otherwise, ESPECIALLY if they allowed a gun-toting asshole like Figaro to be a senator.


        Think about that for a second.

      17. What else could he do in that moment that could benefit his country? The only thing he could do is to transport the Valvrave back and helping Jior doesn’t help his country in any way.

      18. How about bring more transports so the students could actually leave?

        Or explain the situation to them calmly and act like a leader?



      19. Bringing in more vessels in an enemy controlled territory like that would only incur more losses to his country. He doesn’t want that.

        Explaining the situation: you’re trapped and our army is unable to help you. will definitely cause panic, reducing the chances of them being able to transport the Valvrave and himself quick enough. He had nochoice but to act that way because the students won’t budge.

      20. It was his only choice because he’s an incompetent elected official and shouldn’t have been there in the first place. This sort of operation is something meant only for the military, not anyone from the senate.

      21. So how do you propose he act? Remember, he needs to transport himself and the Valvrave in time before the Dorssians arrive, which is in a matter of minutes. He needs to make sure the students don’t panic to further slow him down. He has to make sure that no more of his vessels are involved in the fight. The less costs it incur, the better. He has to make sure that casualties on his side is kept to a minimum.

        With all these constraints how do you expect a person to act? What do you expect out of him? To be a hero?

      22. Well, look at the last two posts and you’ll know what I would have proffered out of him. Primarily that he never be there in the first place and have people who know what they’re doing handle it. LIKE THE GODDAMN MILITARY. THIS IS NOT A JOB FOR THE SENATE.

      23. You missed my point. Bringing in more soldiers will only mean more casualties on their side. I don’t know any country who would go so far to save civilians from another country when the cost is so high. Figaro acted logically. Full stop.

      24. And MY point is that he is unfit for this job overall, so no matter what he would’ve done, if this episode was any indication, it wouldn’t be anything close to how it should’ve been handled. At least if there were only military there, the outcome would’ve made at least SOME sense.

      25. The outcome would not have been very different even if a military commander was there. Their first priority will still be retrieving the Valvrave. They don’t care about the students.

      26. They sure as hell could’ve stopped the colony from breaking off from the dyson sphere. Blow it up! If they don’t care about the citizens, why bother keeping them alive?

      27. Again, I seriously don’t get your point. Why would they waste their energy to destroy the module when their objective is to retrieve the Valvrave? Not that they could do that anyway since most of their fleet has been destroyed already

      28. What’s better than getting ahold of a new super weapon? Making sure your enemy doesn’t. If this is like any other 6 month long mecha show, Valvrave is not the only tide-turning mech we’ll be seeing in this show’s run, so it’s not like there aren’t other big prizes to get.

      29. Again you’re assuming there are others. If Valvrave wasn’t that special, Arus and Dorssia would not be so desperate to get it. Again, no one wants a drawn out war.

      30. The so called plot armor or plot convenience is the excuse people use to express their displeasure in where the story is heading.

        A reasoning is neede for the author to drive the plot in certain ways.

    1. Actually NOT detaining L-11 is probably wisest deccision in all of this mess. Do you remember what happened to those who tried to did it last time? So yeah…
      The independence declaration has its sense, too. Imagine Canada and Australia doing that after hypothetical fall of the UK in 1940. But here we have only students… See how it ended in GC.
      The balancing of superpowers by threatening them to give superweapon to the other… well Salvor Hardin would be proud of Shoko. She has my vote. Especially as any other course of action would have the end result of either Dorssia or ARUS of controlling the Valvrave and the school module being occupied by Dorssia.
      I am completely not sure what course the show will take now, but I am sure both superpowers will now throw everything and the kitchen sink towards capturing the Valvrave.
      Anyway this show definitely will crank up everything to eleven, from the one-man army to genius girl (specialization:politics), to of course superpowered mech feeding on your soul.

    2. If they can extort the world’s greatest powers to ensure their independence and the safety of the rest of the country, they can also obtain some water, power and food too. Like North Korea.

      Arrest L-elf? The guy can kill armies with a screw, what he can’t do wih a bunch of kids. If Haruto and Shouko were not there it should be better to make him the president.

      Looks like this one is trying to succeed where Guilty Crown failed in terms of plot. Let’s hope so.

      P.S. Damm you Sunrise, where is my second season of Love Live? And Accel World? I DEMAND more Nozomi! And Kuroyukihime too!

    3. If this show has -any resemblance to logic- left, or even inherited the tiniest bit of cynicism from Code Geass, they won’t run into any trouble with supplies, power, or oxygen.

      Why am I saying this? Because obviously they’ll be trampled by Dorssia way, way before that. One super robot does not a full army destroyer make, not to mention they have L-11 rampant as a potential saboteur. Oh, and they’re stupid teenagers with no idea of how to properly handle a hostage situation, much less run an independent country that won’t be recognized as such by any of the 3 superpowers, anyway.

      And their ace pilot is far from infallible, to boot.

      I’ll patiently wait for the inevitable scene where Haruto sees himself forced to wave a V sign at an L-11 that sports a “told you so” smile. If he wasn’t just bullshitting with the “my predictions are prophecies” line, then that means his scenario WILL arrive, just not as fast as he thought.

      1. I just started watching this and I gotta say,that’s exactly what I’m expecting as well 😛

        Then we’d see L-Elf with a grin on his face while thinking “Just as planned.”

      2. What the students did was presented as very idealistic and they will inevitably run into trouble, but I really think you’re underestimating the power of the Valvrave robot.

        It’s a war-winning weapon that everyone wants, so the argument that it’ll be easily tossed aside goes against mecha genre logic.

      3. I’m guessing Eruerufu is laughing cause he saw ‘Infinite Ryvius’ and cannot wait to see all that stuff happening IN THE REAL LIFE! Too many things to enjoy!

    4. These were my thoughts exactly.

      Haven’t their parents been taken as hostage as well? So, their brilliant plan is to detach their module, declare independence, abandon their parents, and use a single robot as their hostage/military. Even anime logic has its limits.

      If Dorssia is smart they could effectively begin killing off their hostages one by one to put pressure on the students. Not like they have enough brains to do so though…

    5. I’m glad i’m not the only one who had this reaction…they all just kinda abandoned the rest of their neighbors who are just as neutral as they are. so theyre just going to float out into space… must I remind people that once you start moving you don’t stop ever? what if they crash into rocks or into a planet or another star or worse a black hole. Leave it to a bunch of simple minded kids to declare that they will be independent from now on with no understanding of consequences. Also why seperate yourself from the rest of the pack? This just makes you even more of a target than you already are. this all just screams bad idea… this’ll be hilarious when they realize what do we do now?

      1. >It’s called having an immediate reaction and it’s what half the posts on the internet are.

        You’re assumptions surprise me. Please don’t thing that everyone in the internet is just as idiotic as you are.

        The Moondoggie
    6. Lol, fighting over the plausibility of the “independent student state” I see. Da5id is unequivocally correct. The bottom line is what the students did in this episode violates both scientific plausibility and virtually every major theory of political science. It was obviously written by people with a poor grasp of both hard and social sciences, with little to no effort put in to actually learn about these things- although perhaps intentionally for the “wow” factor of a crazy plot.

      Of course this will hardly a problem for its popularity- the vast majority of the population has a relatively poor understanding of these things to begin with, so they rarely factor heavily into the layman’s overall assessment of quality, or factor in at relatively minor levels because they simply don’t place much importance on such things.

      How this show is ultimately remembered will not hinge on the scientific/political plausibility of its plot but rather its emotional depth, plausibility and palatability. In other words, the emotional depth, plausibility and palatability of its characters as portrayed and developed by the plot, regardless of any flawed underlying scientific/political logic.

      Logical problems in a story only become fiscally fatal plot holes when they involve simplistic matters, divorced from the complexities of scientific and social theories- things that everyone easily understands and places great weight upon in quality assessment- like emotional plausibility and character development. If the implausibility requires an overly high level of knowledge to discern, then it will have little impact on the overall popularity of a show- only those who are highly educated in the field of knowledge that it confounds will be alienated. Everyone else either doesn’t possess sufficient knowledge to perceive the fatal severity of the logical error or weights it relatively lightly on the overall quality scale because they are emotionally detached from these particular spheres of knowledge (Not their field of study perhaps).

      Sure, Valrave completely ignored all rules of scientific and political plausibility. But due to the overly complex nature of its logical implausibilities, the average viewer will probably either ignore, forgive or be blind to it. As long as this show manages to maintain basic (Layman accessible) and emotional logical coherence and develops its characters sufficiently in a deep, plausible and palatable manner, my prediction is that a crazy, scientifically unsound plot will factor little into its long-term legacy, aside from vocal detractors amongst the highly knowledgeable. (Unless they somehow manage to mess up a crazy plot and make it uninteresting in of itself, of course.)…

      1. Granted that the students cannot be trusted to imitate and recreate something as complex as a complete government, with presidents, vice presidents, head of senate, senators, congressmen, etc., but a small independent community is still plausible. Leaderships, responsibilities CAN be assigned and handed out. The robot can be used anyway they pleased, and ARUS is still effectively their ally.

        The Moondoggie
      2. Really now, just look here- I’m too lazy to type out a complete explanation of why what the students in Valrave did violates every tenet of basic political game theory while also overstepping the boundaries of physical plausibility. And I’m sure no one wants to read it either- it’d just be some boring ten page drivel about political science and hard physics. I like writing long comments but that’s way too long even for me. Just take my word for it; I know what I’m talking about. It’s not that I don’t understand the appeal of this show either- I enjoy the silliness and will continue watching it- but as a science fiction/social commentary it is undeniably a travesty of both hard and social sciences…

      3. Can’t you just point out the main idea as to why they violate such and such, like a powerpoint presentation? Also referring Lord of the Flies again when the work is also fiction. As of now we really don’t have a solid example of children governing themselves.

        The Moondoggie
      4. Well, I tried to answer your question but what I wrote isn’t showing up on the page for some reason. Oh well. Read (this) and you’ll probably understand why something the size of the Valvrave can’t lift an entire Dyson sphere habitat module…

      5. @Camario

        Are any of these high school students supposed to understand anything about political science?

        Theories of political science predict human behavior in different circumstances. They are basically maps of what is and is not possible for humans to do under certain sets of circumstances according to basic human psychology and instinct. In other words, you will act in accordance with these theories regardless of knowledge.

        Game theory is not an aid for politicians to aid them in decision making. Instead it is essentially a form of psychoanalysis that predicts the kinds of decision they or anyone else will make under the circumstances. And what the kids did in this show is quite simply insane and nigh flat-out impossible, completely violating all notions of game theory and bargaining power as well as every basic tenet of human psychology.

        Does it make Valvrave a bad show in of itself? No. But anyone who still believes that it actually resembles an accurate representation of reality in any way whatsoever after being told otherwise is deluding themselves. Voluntary ignorance- to me by far the most repulsive of all inherently human flaws…

      6. http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/chwe/austen/cziko.pdf


        You have too much faith in social sciences. Social sciences, at the end of the day, is the observation of human behaviour, albeit done in a systematic and methodical way.

        They are predictions based on a large data of observations and applies as a high probability, but never a certainty. That is why studies in social sciences has always assumed a huge deviation and placed a tolerance value to the reactions.

        Despite how deeply studied is social sciences, it will only remain a prediction and just that. The Oedipus effect speaks for itself.

      7. @The Moondoggie

        Inertia, bro. Don’t tell me you’ve your forgotten basic high school physics? “The resistance of any physical object to a change in its state of motion or rest which is determined by mass?” p=mv, F=ma? No? Go look it up. Mass ≠ weight by the way. Weight is influenced by gravity but mass is not. Trying to push a Dyson sphere habitat module, something the size of the Valvrave would be crushed between the massive force of its own thrusters and the habitat’s inertial resistance…


        They are predictions based on a large data of observations and applies as a high probability, but never a certainty.

        I’m fully aware of that fact. Notice that I used the word “im/plausibility” a lot in my first comment. But I like to state things as absolutes occasionally as an easy way to rile up passions and stimulate debate especially when I don’t have the time to write a long, exhaustive explanation on the matter- cheap bait for when I don’t have the time to cook up the good stuff. I wrote the comment you’re referring to right before I had to leave for something important so go figure…

      8. uh???

        F = ma. The amount of force is proportional to acceleration. As far as I’m concerned as long as there is an initial acceleration propagated by a force of any magnitude, however small it is will result in a movement since there is velocity. This is space where there are no opposing forces acting on an object, so deceleration does not occur. With a smaller force, it just takes a longer time to reach the speed required.

        In the first place, none of us knows about the properties of the materials used to build the Valvrave. Do you know it’s elastic moduls, it’s toughness, it’s yielding stress or buckling forces? Or it’s fatigue life? So your argument isn’t really valid since we have no idea whether it uses the materials we know or we are going to know in the far future.

      9. For the social sciences, they don’t have any case study of students governing a community. So since the data they have is zero, forming a conclusion backed up by proof is not possible at the moment. The closest they could get is by observing student organization or clubs in schools and that won’t get them very far.

      10. F = ma. The amount of force is proportional to acceleration. As far as I’m concerned as long as there is an initial acceleration propagated by a force of any magnitude, however small it is will result in a movement since there is velocity. This is space where there are no opposing forces acting on an object, so deceleration does not occur. With a smaller force, it just takes a longer time to reach the speed required.

        It’ll crush itself with the force of its own thrusters, tear itself apart. You’re right in saying that if you apply continuous force to something in zero-g it will move eventually- but that’s assuming that the thing which is applying that force is strong enough to withstand the g-forces of its own acceleration without breaking apart from excessive structural stress first. And given the massive force required to move an object with the enormous mass/inertia of a Dyson sphere habitat module as rapidly as they did in the show, the size/strength inverse relationship makes it impossible for something the the size of the Valvrave without getting torn to little bits of twisted metal.

        Hell, long before the Valvrave itself falls to pieces the pilot would be dead from the g-forces- why do you think it’s so important for astronauts to have g-force training- because the rapid acceleration of rockets subjects their bodies to massive amounts of g-force. And it’ll take many times the acceleration of a single rocket to move an entire habitat module that quickly- and humans have trouble withstanding the g-forces of just one. In the real world Haruto would be mincemeat…

        Weight = −mass(g-force acceleration)

        As for special materials made from exotic matter or something, sure, I’m all up for that sort of explanation- only they didn’t bother to give us one. A major no-no in hard sci-fi is to have something impossible happen and not at least attempt to explain it. Because now you’re jumping into the realm of fantasy- sci-fi is all about portraying a semi-realistic world of materialism. Maybe they;ll do it later- but as of now for all intents and purposes, this show’s essentially a super-robot ala-Guren Lagann masquerading as a real-robot hard sci-fi…

        …they don’t have any case study of students governing a community. So since the data they have is zero, forming a conclusion backed up by proof is not possible at the moment.

        But we have plenty of examples of basic human psychology- we know the relative magnitude of subjective value that most people tend to place upon certain things psychologically, and the frequencies at which this occurs. Like their families. Time and again surveys and studies have proven that the most important thing in life to the vast majority of people is their families. And the Dorssians were holding every student’s family hostage- the supreme bargaining chip. In any real world scenario most of them would likely be scrambling to surrender to the Dorssians, handing over Haruto and Valvrave on a silver platter. With game theory it doesn’t matter who is making the decisions. As long as we know what bargaining chips each party possesses, how much weight individuals tend to place upon each of these things psychologically and at what frequencies, we will usually be able to predict the winner with within a small margin of error. And in the case of this show the pseudo-math adds up to resoundingly decry the actions of the students as counter-intuitive nigh on impossible insane bull…

      11. You’re going about this the wrong way. Mass is the constant. Force and acceleration is the variable. A small force (the force that the valvrave can output and witstand) will result in a small acceleration. From here on, the speed will only increase , not decrease. The structure will eventually move. How can there be high g-forces if the acceleration isn’t high? The g-force for moving a large object compared to a small object is the same when acceleration is the same, how does mass factor into this?

        The Valvrave is designed to travel with high acceleration. This is entering sci-fi realm, but the cockpit is obviously anti g-force considering that Saki was in the cockpit unbelted.

        The valvrave being able to sustain so many explosions and rounds without much damage suggests how tough the material making up the Valvrave is. There is no question that it is made out of a material not known to us yet.

        And as 5OVER and The Moondoggie said many times, giving Valvrave to either Arus or Dorssia will mean a certain victory to the side that got it. The students know this, so any threats to their families will only be treated as a bluff. We are comparing the victory of an entire nation over another to the lives of their families. How is the scale even balanced?

        Okay, let’s just leave the issue of the students’ behaviour aside and agree that it is improbable but not not impossible. Human behaviour is highly unpredictable and is common knowledge. 5OVER and Da5id have already discussed this in detail, let’s not go back there.

      12. The final speed of an object is unrelated to the magnitude of acceleration. Acceleration determines how fast the object reaches that speed. A lower acceleration just means it takes a longer time for the speed to reach that magnitude. The Valvrave stayed virtually still in the beginning for quite a long time before the module gained a speed that is perceivable by the eye. We don’t have an exact grasp of the time it took for the Module to reach the speed it was in.

      13. It’ll crush itself with the force of its own thrusters, tear itself apart. You’re right in saying that if you apply continuous force to something in zero-g it will move eventually- but that’s assuming that the thing which is applying that force is strong enough to withstand the g-forces of its own acceleration without breaking apart from excessive structural stress first.

        Hmmm… But moving/accelerating with the module means that g-forces generated by whole, both the robot and the module, be unnoticeable? Since the robot is moving/moving with with the module and not just itself?

        The Moondoggie
      14. How can there be high g-forces if the acceleration isn’t high?

        Now I’m confusing myself. Scrap the whole g-forces thing, that was a bad idea and flat out wrong- back to the initial one. That’s what happens with physics when you’re too lazy to do the math…XP

        Anyway, the module was virtually flung out of place by the Valvrave in an instant. For something the size of the habitat module with the mass of hundreds of aircraft carriers in order to make it accelerate at the rate at which it did in the show from a state of rest you would have to rapidly apply massive amount of force- coming from the Valvrave’s thrusters. Far more force than the strength/volume inverse relationship would allow for any known material- the real-world mecha would be torn to bits by the force of its own thrusters transferring through its body frame into the module.

        F = ma

        The mass of Nimitz-class aircraft carriers is 1.00017e8 kg. For the mass of the module we’ll use a low-ball estimate of 100 times the aircraft carrier which is 1.00017e10 kg. And we’ll say that we want to achieve a low-ball velocity of 50mph which is about 22 m/s from a state of rest in a time of ten seconds.

        V = Vi + a*t

        22 m/s= 0 m/s + a*(10 s)

        a = 2.2 m/s^2

        It appears that 2.2 m/s^2 of acceleration is required to attain a 50mph from a state of rest in ten seconds.

        But how much force (Thrust) would be required to achieve this?

        F = ma

        F = 1.00017e10 kg(2.2 m/s^2) = 22,037,400,000 N
        = 2.20374e10 N

        Therefore, F = 2.20374e10 N or in plain numbers, a whopping 22,037,400,000 N of force all at once. That’s how much force the Valvrave’s thrusters would have to provide per second to provide just 2.2 m/s^2 of acceleration to the module- and its body frame would have to be subject to that much force transferring through it all at once while pushing the module. I don’t know of any non-fictional material that even comes close to being capable of withstanding that kind of force at the size of the Valvrave (About 7 times the height of Shouko, or 35 feet considering that the average height of a Japanese woman is 5 feet), in accordance with the size/strength inverse relationship. Let alone any kind of thruster technology that could provide it. (By comparison, the force provided by modern rocket engines is measured in meganewtons while the force needed to move the module extends into the range of giganewtons.) And that’s using ultra-conservative estimates all around while also excluding the opposite acceleration of the Dyson Sphere’s own core gravity which if considered would exponentially increase the amount of force required.

        The structure will eventually move. How can there be high g-forces if the acceleration isn’t high? The g-force for moving a large object compared to a small object is the same when acceleration is the same, how does mass factor into this?

        You’re right. The structure will eventually move regardless of how small a force is applied. But it would take too long a time to get moving, far longer than portrayed in the show (The scene lasted for anout 15-20 seconds at most) assuming that the frame of the mecha is actually strong enough to withstand such a massive transfer of force to begin with. The first stage (Block A) of the most powerful rocket ever built, the N1 could provide 43 meganewtons.

        2.20374e10/43,000,000 = 512.497

        In other words it would take ~512.497 N1 Block A’s to provide just 2.2 m/s^2 of acceleration to the module.

        Now, let’s say the Valvrave can withstand and has the (ridiculously highball estimate) thruster output of 12 N1 Stage A’s.

        43,000,000 N(12) = 516,000,000 N

        F = ma

        5.16e8 N = 1.00017e10 kg(a)

        a = 5.16e8 N/1.00017e10 kg = 0.05159122949 m/s^2

        Our highball estimate Valvrave will provide approximately 0.052 m/s^2 of acceleration.

        V = Vi + a*t

        22 m/s = 0 + 0.052 m/s^2(t)

        t = 22/0.05159122949 = 423 s

        423 s/60 = 7.05 minutes

        It would take out high-ball estimate Valvrave about 7 minutes to accelerate the module to a measly velocity of ~22 m/s or 50mph. Given the scaling of the module in the show, we can be almost certain that it has significantly more mass that our ultra low-ball estimate of 100 aircraft carriers, and from the same we can also determine that it was probably traveling at far higher velocity by the end of it all.

        The Valvrave stayed virtually still in the beginning for quite a long time before the module gained a speed that is perceivable by the eye.

        Implausible. It was surrounded by enemy mecha. If stayed still for anything more than a few seconds it would’ve given them the chance to destroy it- the most logical time frame is more or less equivalent to that of the actual scene (i.e. 15-20 seconds).


        In conclusion, the forces required to accelerate a module with an ultra low-ball mass estimate far exceeds anything residing within the realms of mathematical feasibility with regard to the amount of stress (force) that the structural frame of something the size of the Valvrave (Est. 35 feet in height) would be able to withstand according to the size/strength inverse relationship for all known real-world materials.

        Also, the amount of time it would take to accelerate to a measly 50mph far exceeds the time frame given by the show, even with a ridiculously liberal high-ball estimate for the power of the Valvrave’s thrusters and an ultra low-ball estimate for the mass of the module while also ignoring the opposing gravitational acceleration of the Dyson sphere’s own core.

        Including the negative acceleration of the Dyson sphere’s own core’s gravitational pull and utilizing more reasonable mid-range estimates in all our (Valvrave thruster power, module mass, etc.) calculations would exponentially increase the ultimate values of both time and force, exacerbating the mathematical implausibility astronomically. And there you have it, a mathematical proof (Let me know if I made any silly math errors…XP) of basic physics which demonstrates exactly why the Valvrave lifting the Dyson sphere habitat module is more less completely impossible, confounding the rules of both physics and mathematics…

        Okay, let’s just leave the issue of the students’ behaviour aside and agree that it is improbable but not not impossible.

        My message exactly…;)

        We are comparing the victory of an entire nation over another to the lives of their families. How is the scale even balanced?

        Now that’s just idealism speaking. In reality, most people aren’t that noble. Remember that the most important thing in life to the vast majority of people has indeed been statistically proven to be their families (And friends are a close second if I remember correctly)- over their country or any notions of patriotism. The harsh reality is that most people would abandon their entire nation to save their families and probably even their friends- that’s just how people are; we’re tribal by nature…

      15. There’s no indication that the movement could not be as long as 7 minutes considering that the studio can’t afford to spend that many frames showing the Valvrave pushing the module. The initial parting of the Module from the rest of the structure already sent tons of debris that placed the enemies at a standstill, thus leaving the Valvrave plenty of time to push the module.

        The point is we can’t be sure how long it took since the events on screen is not happening in real time. The high thrust just shows how crazy powerful the Valvrave’s engine is, making it even more valuable as a bargaining chip.

        I do agree that Valvrave itself is pretty much unexplainable using hard science. Since it is of unknown origin, made out of unknown materials and we don’t know much about it, I’ll suspend my disbelief when it comes to the Valvrave.

      16. I do agree that Valvrave itself is pretty much unexplainable using hard science. Since it is of unknown origin, made out of unknown materials and we don’t know much about it, I’ll suspend my disbelief when it comes to the Valvrave.

        My point exactly. It’s more of less completely unexplainable and requires so much suspension of disbelief that it feels less like hard sci-fi and more like fantasy. More super robot than real robot. It’s super robot show masquerading as a hard sci-fi real robot one…

      17. In regards to the physics part:
        The force required to move the module would be way higher than that value of force. We have to take into account of the universal law of gravitation as well. In essence, it seemed as though the module was connected to a whole ball-shaped object (I don’t know what it is, but it does not matter as it seemed to be connected to the other modules present anyway).

        This would mean that we have to take into account the gravitational force exerted onto the broken module from the rest of the other modules as well. Thus:


        Taking into account that Valvrave is trying to get the module further away from the other modules, it would mean that the force exerted at the start would have to be larger than that exerted later on by virtue of the radius component of the law of universal gravitation. This would mean that the force required would definitely be larger than the hypothetical number ZEN provided.

        You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes ‘science’ itself. A science (the simple form of science as defined by the Baconian method – see ‘Karl Popper’ for the other philosophical theory) is through observation and establishing doctrines based on such observation. This is the same whether or not it is natural science or social science. In essence, social science is done on the basis of a Baconian method and is thus analogous to what you identify as a ‘hard science’.

        I would even further contend that there is no such thing as a ‘hard science’ as the method is the same whatever the academic field one is in. Nothing makes natural science (or natural philosophy for those who still live in the 1700s) inherently harder than social science. It is merely because social science is more approachable that it is deemed as less ‘difficult’.

        It is also untrue that you imply that social sciences are probably but uncertain, whereas natural sciences are to the contrary. As noted above, both sciences are based off observation. Nothing makes natural science more predictable than social sciences. Take the formulation of mechanics for one. Galileo and subsequently Newton advocated a definitive formula for observed phenomena. The most famous probably being F=MA. However, this was subsequently rejected as too unpredictable a formulation as shown through the fact that it cannot explain mechanics near the speed of light. This led on to Einstein’s special relativity and ultimately his theory of general relativity.

        Another example is the formulation of light/photons. Newton concluded based on his experiments that light is made up of particles. However, this was subsequently disproved by Young through his double-slit experiment showing the diffraction of light waves. This was subsequently overturned again through Einstein’s photoelectric theory (of which he obtained the Nobel Prize) which theorised (based on Planck’s quantum theory) that light is made up of discrete quanta called photons. This is the current understanding of the Standard model of Particle Physics, which is still debatable.

        If you still don’t believe me, then take a look at the extent Einstein tried to reject quantum theory – he did not succeed in the end.

        From this, can you conclude that natural sciences are absolute, whereas social sciences are not ‘hard’ or is unpredictable?

      18. This would mean that the force required would definitely be larger than the hypothetical number ZEN provided.

        I used basic, basic linear-plane stuff. At such large scales you’re right- there comes a point where linear formulae simply cease to be useful because we can no longer neglect the influence of external forces which have become too great to be ignored- three-dimensional calculations of force are instead required. But that would take forever, so I’m not going to do it. In my above estimates I disregard the negative and lateral gravitational pull of the core and of all the other modules along with the most liberal estimates of mass and thrust possible. It’s just as I said. The fact of the matter is that the true amount of force and time required to lift the module is far higher than my estimate- to an obscene degree. The point of this exercise was to prove that even using the most liberal estimates of mass (For the module) and thrust (For the Valvrave), and while ignoring the massive influence of external gravitational forces, what occurred in the show still requires so much force out such a small body that it is more or less impossible. And wave-particle duality, finally someone else who actually knows a little real physics…;)

      19. My point exactly. It’s more of less completely unexplainable and requires so much suspension of disbelief that it feels less like hard sci-fi and more like fantasy. More super robot than real robot. It’s super robot show masquerading as a hard sci-fi real robot one…

        It’s super robot show masquerading as a hard sci-fi real robot one…

        Wait, are you guys telling me you are treating this show as a real robot one instead of a super robot right from the start? 😛

        Looks like we were treating it differently right off the bat! I always thought this was a super robot one since episode 1, since its Sunrise(Gundam, Gundam, SRW…).


        The Moondoggie
      20. Also Zen, please don’t expect everyone here are NOT LAZY enough to raise their hands and do the math. 😛

        We are watching the show and are enjoying it, not treat it as something to be used to practice physics.

        The Moondoggie
      21. It isn’t? Minovsky Particles, Gundanium and GN Particles and all that? I thought real robot anime only use real life physics and has non-real life concepts explained with real life explanations…

        From Wikipedia:

        Super Robot (スーパーロボット Sūpā Robotto?) is a term used in manga and anime to describe a giant robot or mecha, with an arsenal of fantastic super-powered weapons, extreme resistance to damage unless the plot calls for it, sometimes transformable or combined from two or more robots and/or vehicles usually piloted by young, daring heroes, and often shrouded by mystical or legendary origins. This is distinct from a Real Robot, which is a mecha portrayed as a relatively common and plausible item, used by military organizations in the same manner as tanks or aircraft.

        fantastic super-powered weapons

        I think the last like describes Gundam and Valvrave very well…

        The Moondoggie
      22. Wait, are you guys telling me you are treating this show as a real robot one instead of a super robot right from the start? 😛

        Looks like we were treating it differently right off the bat! I always thought this was a super robot one since episode 1, since its Sunrise(Gundam, Gundam, SRW…).

        I’m pretty sure you have your terms mixed up. Sunrise shows like Gundam are the gold standard for real robot which is usually more along the lines of hard sci-fi. Whereas shows like Gurren Lagann and Mazinger Z that incorporate more elements of fantasy and magic are known as super robot. Super Robot Wars: OG is a weird one which contains both scientific and magically-based robots and uses the terms real robot and super robot as unit class descriptions. At this point in time, Valvrave, unlike your typical Sunrise fare, is more of a super robot show than a real robot one unless they decide to explain things more thoroughly later on.

        Also Zen, please don’t expect everyone here are NOT LAZY enough to raise their hands and do the math. 😛

        Lol, when I said lazy I was referring to myself- of course I don’t expect anyone else to do the math. I was trying to make an argument based on physics without math which rarely works out because it is so intrinsically mathematical in nature…

      23. Yeah, and considering Japan has life-sized Gundam on display (which they’ve calculated the cost of in order to make it walk) I’d call that pretty plausible. There are shows that mix elements of Super and Real, like Evangelion and the latter half of Gurren Lagann, but usually the difference is pretty distinct.

        Captain Sunshine
  2. Did you know they updated the op a little last ep? (They put Shouko into the “character slideshow”)

    [i]Saki’s ship was making substantial headway last week, but I’m willing to bet Shouko has regained some lost grounds after this episode.[/i]

    Somehow I don’t see any SakixHaruto ship at the moment… as Haruto is totaly oblivious towards her, maybe this will change or maybe she’ll go for L-11 in the future. xD

    1. Both of the girls seem to get “Dat Girl” treatment in the OP so one way or another, I guess she’ll become a an actual shipping candidate soon enough.

      Can’t wait for the catfights 😀

    2. Kyral, I did notice that. Shouko was also present in episode 3’s OP, she’s probably there to stay now that they’ve made clear she’s alive 😉
      I’m pretty sure Saki will have a larger role to play, but you’re right, Haruto’s eyes are solely on Shouko at the moment. It begs the question if Shouko can survive through season one 😡

    1. Yadda Yadda logic “They are in space and they were freaking cut off from everyone else now literally”

      But really, would be interesting to see how they deal with those practicalities.

    2. Well… at least we can be reassured about a few things. In Guilty Crown, it was more like a militia of sorts the school created rather than a state or nation. As far as I know, at least a state or nation has some spec of influence on a political stage. Guilty Crown… they had nill and oddly enough, despite the power they had, they didn’t even have a playing card…

      While what is going on in Valvrave is just occupation and dominance, not outright genocide. At the least negotiation is an option while genocide, cards are off the table.

      Looking at the characters as a comparison, the power is much more spread out in Valvrave while Shu in Guilty Crown had it all. Internally, there are 3 people in Valvrave that hold influence, Haruto – Power, Shouko – Brains, L-Elf – everything but Valvrave and influence. Both which seems he needs or he wouldn’t be holding out. So they kinda balance each other out.

    3. GC – “We want Shu to be a despot! Wait he’s a generic nice guy? Quick, lets pull an idiotic plot to make him evil! Wait we actually wanted him to be sympathetic!? Quick, lets turn everyone else into dumb sheep to rebel against Shu! Wait, we need a rival for Shu!?!? Quick lets bring back the character who had died a good death! Wait we don’t have have a finale?!?!? Quick lets repeat the exact same damsel in distress finale we used in the first half of the show! This is going to be a great story! Really!

      Valvrave – “What’s that? This is all really stupid? I’m glad you noticed because we are going to make this even more ridiculous and escalate it until it becomes awesome! **** YEAH!”

      To put it simply, Sunrise actually has the balls to pull this off and make it work.

      1. Well, they certainly have the balls to start it 13 episodes before GC did. Though I don’t think we can say that they pulled it off when they haven’t even done anything with it yet…

      2. You missed my point. GC made the mistake taking itself seriously. They were desperately trying to force to audience to care about its plot and characters despite all the idiocy happening.

        Valvrave is practically self-aware in its silliness and embraces it. Only Sunrise can pull that off. Its leagues ahead of GC already.

      1. I don’t think Valvrave has any intention to take itself as seriously as Mugen no Ryvius or even Guilty Crown for that matter. But you’re right, there are elements that are similar in Valvrave. Nothing is original these days 😡

      2. Like what I have said before: Anime stop being original in the early years of the first decade of this century, trope-wise.

        Now what only makes one original is the “mix” of over-used tropes.

        The Moondoggie
  3. This show is really interesting for me.

    So far most characters have my liking. Haruto, Shouko, Saki, L-elf

    Haruto is kind yet aggressive when needed and dependable.

    Shouko for President indeed XD

    I already love Saki but her character needs more flushing out for me. She still seems in the dark.

    And L-elf is simply badass, nuff said.

    As for which ship I’m on? I support both mothafuckas.

    1. I agree, I think the cast of characters are really the stand out of this show and I haven’t found any of them unlikable. I was afraid Haruto might go down the angsty, mopey route, but that didn’t happen and he remains very resolute in his decision-making 😉

  4. A lot of people like this show so I’m trying to keep watching (even past the three-episode rule), but I can’t really find anything redeeming in this show. The plot is dumb, the dialogue is constipated and the characters’ logic are laughable. *sigh*

      1. I agree. Valvrave is so entertaining precisely because it’s completely off-the-wall and it doesn’t pretend to be anything more than that. Screw real world principles and screw conventional anime logic! It’s chock-full of madness and I love the show for it :3

    1. Hey, let’s not talk about the characters. In reality, many human are laughable. Anyway, if you dun like the show just drop it and find another to watch. 🙂 should have something for you out there, unless your preference is so defined then I suggest you direct your own show which has everything you like in it. lol

    2. The way i see it, shows don’t have to be critically good to be enjoyable. After the first episode, i realized that this show is going to be over the top so I just threw logic out the window. You’ll probably have lots of fun with this series as long as you don’t take anything too seriously.

    1. I’m so excited to see what they have in store for us next week! Idol performance starring Saki and Shouko? Best idea ever!
      Let’s hope there’s a second season of Love Live! in the pipeline, maybe Sunrise can do a crossover :3

      1. I used to think it were alter forms, but the naming sense from the main site gives it more like it were different mechs than forms.

        But we’ll see… There is also a small weird thing about the naming of the bots, check the site. I’d like to hear the explanation for it.

        The Moondoggie
  5. Nice Episode. And to guys out there talking about “anime logic”.
    Many non-anime shows out there do not has much grain of sense as well. If all the shows have to spend time explaining everything to make it logical we are not going to move on.

      1. @sortedevaras:

        If you mean them being traitorous then that is still up for grabs. Who can say Sunrise will make the other students bail out on the idea after being handed the responsibilities and the fear that the plan MIGHT NOT WORK(actually can happen if the enemy has completely no regards for human life).

        The Moondoggie
    1. I don’t see how this show is self aware ?? where exactly are the signs that it doesn’t take itself seriously ? coz that is what bothers me the most abt it, ot takes itself too seriously while pulling the most ridiculous stuff

      1. If a show includes vampires, Space America and Space Japan, stripping, a Moses line, L-elf of the Revolution, ERU-ERUFUUUUUUUUUU, an independent country of students and a musical in only 5 episodes, chances are its not taking itself seriously.

  6. With that decleration of independence a lot of people including known characters are going to die and haruto will end up forming the contract with L-elf. I hope am wrong but years of watching anime want to back up my claim.

  7. Damn it Shoko, you weren’t supposed to be awesome! Though I’m pleasantly surprised that she’s going to be a much better character than she first appeared to be- hope she stops setting those death flags though… -_- (still on the Saki ship, but I like Shoko a lot more now)
    Going the independent nation route is an interesting choice, it’s nice that Haruto doesn’t just get forced into the military, as this direction will give the supporting cast more time to develop. (Have they all even been “formally” introduced yet?)
    L-Elf continues to prove that he’s a badass, funny how no one seemed to question him at the end when it was obvious he knew way too much about the current situation!
    We got a little bit more explanation on how Haruto possesses people, which is nice- it’s still a ridiculous concept, but at least there are some “rules” now.
    In short, another enjoyable episode, Valvrave isn’t great by any means- but it has not once failed to be fun or entertaining in the past 4 weeks, hope it can keep this up!

  8. My name is Shouko Connor and if you’re hearing this, you are part of the resistance

    I’m sorry Saki, Shouko stripped in front of me to show her sincerity so I have joined her side in the Ship Wars.I nominate and vote Shouko for Waifu!

    I don’t think L-elf is unfazed by what happened, I think his pride was hurt.According to the sub group I use to watch this, L-elf called Shouko a bitch, which means he was mad lol.He tried to laugh it off, but it was too late.

    You mad L-elf? Yeah you mad!

    The way this guy died has Guren from Code Geass all over it

    Let’s talk about that multipurpose Swiss Mecha Gun.What the hax is that?It looks like Valvrave just jammed both of its Katanas and the Scythe into it.

    Speaking of Valvrave Grabbin Boobs

  9. This show is like a ball of retarded, propelled by over-the-top that circumvented the world several times and it came back becoming something COMPLETELY AWESOME. Someone once described this show as “Too Sunrise” because of how ridiculous and awsome it is. I beg to differ, this is Pure Liquid Undistilled Sunrise. Its that ridiculous.


  10. What the fuck is going on here.

    It’s good that I didn’t have much expectations for this or else it would’ve been another Guilty Crown on my mind. I should stop taking it seriously at this point. I’m just gonna wait and see where the hell they are headed (hopefully not into a black hole). I’m interested in seeing more of that hacker too.

  11. The independence bit is a pretty interesting development, but I can only see things going south quickly. I imagine they’re going to channel more Infinite Ryvius than Vifam and my money’s on Haruto being forced to accept L-Elf’s assistance and give him the sign in an episode or two.

  12. this show is my guilty pleasure of the season, I find the action and a few (very few) of the characters amazing, there are some original ideas that could hv been put to a better use but the whole sinks in abysmal levels of DUMB whenever one of the two lead teenage couple are involved ( haruo and shoko I personally find both unbearable to watch). Anyway the show is decent in its own category but it’s too bad that haruto cannot die

  13. lol I got griffith vibes from L elf in this episodes ( you will choose me hh)though it’s a bit of an offense to compare this show in any way to berserk. still strangely stupid and entertaining your comment on anime logic redeemed it for me

  14. Wait a minute, can someone clarify the “president” line?

    In the GG subs, the girl says Shouko “Is JIOR’s President’s Daughter”; wikipedia says the same thing. I was confused when the post made no mention of this(if true, this would be the first time it was revealed), and now everyone is calling her president(although she probably will be eventually unless they stick with the student council hierarchy like every anime).

    Did GG mistranslate(and that made it to wikipedia), or did that reveal just kinda blow over everyone’s heads?

  15. First L-elf’s supersoldier moments, and now this? Yeah, I just can’t take this show seriously anymore. I’ve seen a lot of people compare it to Code Geass, and while certain elements are similar, IMO CG was infinitely better done than this, especially in the setup. If the world has the tech and resources to build a freaking Dyson Sphere (with a surface area literally millions times earth’s), I sincerely doubt they’d need to fight for resources or living space. Still watching though… for now.

    1. I think that was the whole point of that scene.

      To Haruto, or to all of JIOR, the V sign means peace. To L-11 it means “victory”, that’s why he suggested the sign. L-11 offered Haruto the means to obtain immediate victory, hence the V sign.

      Culture shock? Culture shock.

  16. Establishing your own independent country without any thought of the consequences is possibly the epitome of foolishness. Putting aside the issue of resources and maintenance of the module, this decision would most certainly place the students in an immensely awkward political position.

    Firstly, you cannot merely gather a few hundred people and declare that a place is your country. It is not because of the people collectively acknowledging a certain affiliation to a group or organisation in a certain location which makes a country, a country, but whether other countries recognises that country. This mirrors the situation in our world.

    In regards to the students’ political position, such a declaration would most likely place the students in even more danger than if they surrendered. By relying too much on their supposed alliance with ARUS, it would expose them to the mercy of ARUS by enabling ARUS to obtain intelligence on the module’s structures and the students’ plans, thereby ruining the students’ strategy. It would also enable ARUS to effectively monopolise all trading routes and resources, thereby undermining the module’s economy. Eventually, the Valvrave will have to be used to trade for supplies as the alliance between the students and ARUS hinges on ARUS’s reluctance for the Valvrave to be handed over to Dorssia – not an agreement to provide resources. Eventually, the students will have to face the dilemma of either providing consideration for resources (i.e. hand over valvrave or intelligence related to it), or starve.

    On the other hand, relying on Dorssia would not be a viable option either. In accordance with the current events, the students have declared their independence whilst maintaining an alliance with ARUS. If the students declare an alliance with Dorssia, the students would become an enemy of ARUS, exposing the students to attacks by ARUS. The most convenient option for Dorssia in such a situation is to to stand back and allow ARUS to attack, weakening the student’s position. After being having been weakened by ARUS, the students would effectively require more assistance than they would had they not broke off their alliance with ARUS. This would ensure that Dorssia’s bargaining power is larger than the students’.

    Depending on whether JIOR maintained its autonomy after being conquered, relying on JIOR would not be a viable option either. Disregarding the agreements between JIOR and Dorssia, if the students form an alliance with JIOR, it would place JIOR in a politically bad position – antagonising ARUS and Dorssia. Thus, JIOR would not form an alliance with the students, and perhaps even view the students as an enemy. Ultimately, by antagonising all three nations (ARUS, JIOR and Dorssia) the only party that suffers in the end would merely be the students themselves.

    1. Fully agree (which is why Shoko lost a few points with me), but I don’t think you should take it so seriously to write such a big text XD Unlike CG and GC, the writer is not even trying here 😉

    2. It should be noted that the main people celebrating the event are students.

      L-Elf knows it’s a dumb idea and finds it funny, while Figaro doesn’t think it’ll work.

      Thus, I don’t think you need to make a lot of effort before realizing this experiment won’t last more than a couple of episodes before running into more problems and issues. Which might also be ridiculous but also more realistic than the alternative of the plan working perfectly, which is unlikely even for a crazy show.

    3. The whole purpose of establishing an independent nation is to escape influence from Arus and Dorssia, not to stand equally. It does not matter whether they make an enemy out of Dorssia or Arus, they can easily put both of them as a stalemate using the Valvrave.
      You do not seem to comprehend the significance of obtaining the Valvrave. Judging from its performance, whichever country which manages to get their hands on it and mass produce it would get an instant win.
      I don’t get how would Arus be able to withhold resources when they would never take the risk of the Valvrave falling into Dorssia’s hands. The key point is how important the Valvrave is to the victory of both nation. Losing it would mean a drawn out war.
      And don’t even think of destroying the Valvrave before it falls into your enemy’s hands. None of the vessels would be able to match Valvrave’s speed, effectively rendering both nations unable to act.

      1. It’s true that ARUS military might be shitty (as we’ve seen), but I’m sure they and their politicians have plenty of experience at blackmailing, raising riots and other dirty tricks. I’m more than willing to see the student society fall apart in a glorious manner when exposed to external pressures. I’m a nasty person. }8>

      2. Rather than how I am underestimating the capability of Valvrave, it seems as though you are overestimating its capabilities.

        True, it is a robot which could fly around quickly, and the robots Dorssia has does not seem to be able to catch up with Valvrave, but this does not mean that Valvrave is omnipotent. Rather than being able to topple a country, it merely seemed to be a robot that is merely superior to the other ones. Perhaps an analogy would demonstrate my point: something like the 4 gundams in Gundam 00 at the start.

        One robot does not have to capability to topple or counteract enemy forces. From its arsenal, it has a gun, a large sword, and if the opening song indicates anything, a mace/staff, a yoyo, a bow, and two cannons. Does this seem to be able to topple other nations? No.

        Let us think of a hypothetical example. If the module is attacked from all sides using nuclear bombs, and other highly destructive weaponry. Would be able to defeat all of them, preventing the module from incurring any damage? The answer is probably no. Is the valvrave able to detect any infiltrators who are under the radar? No. If Dorssia or ARUS sends its army into the module eliminate all the students physically, would the valvrave be able to prevent that from happening? Probably not as well.

        The argument that the valvrave could be mass produced to be a powerful military tool is also flawed. There is no indication that the Valvrave could be mass produced. The Valvrave could contain a system which is unique – perhaps the serum that was injected into Haruto at the start was unique. This would make the Valvrave “un-mass produce-able”.

      3. Don’t get me wrong, I have no intention of claiming that the valvrave can oppose the military forces of the world. I’m simply saying that both countries think they can mass produce the Valvrave and doing so will ensure an easy victory. Similarly, if their enemy gets it, they will suffer a certain loss.

        So, both forces are not willing to provoke the students since having an entire army of valvrave can easily overturn the war. The key point here is they think that is the case.

    4. If you make a threat, you have to be willing to go through with it. I don’t think Shouko is really willing to hand the ValvRave over to the side that attacks them last. If either side decides to call the bluff, that side loses, but so too do all the module residents lose.

  17. Well, honestly.. the school can’t really rely on any of the countries whether they like it or not. Arus and Dorssia just wants the robot (and the school’s resources), while Jior probably will try its best to stay neutral (which means they’ll do nothing).
    The best way to do it would be establish a deal with all the countries, since you have a badass robot (or maybe more than one) in your hands that will give anyone extreme advantage.
    I’m sure though that the decision will haunted them later on, with L-elf pointing the harsh consequences to the students in later episodes.
    Well, that’s what I expected from this series later anyway. But then it might not turn out to be what I’ve hoped haha. = =”

  18. “We’re in trouble. ARUS is going to betray us!”

    “Where’s your proof?”

    *Starts stripping*

    “Shit, stop stripping! You have proven that you are obviously NOT crazy at all. Let’s go find that proof together!”


    1. The stripping just let them give her a chance because of her desperation (but Saki still called Shouko stupid for doing that). They still had to go find real proof (which is when they freed Haruto).

  19. Part of me thinks that the story would have been more interesting if Shouko died in the first episode and Haruto did end up making a contract with L-Elf.

  20. is it just me, or shoko just made herself L-elf prime target?
    Haruto’s ‘girl’ : check
    JIOR’s prime minister/president daughter : check
    leader/president of the student : check
    and not to mention she screw up his plan a little………..

    random dude
  21. Shouko, my dear, I don’t mean to sound like a cold-hearted bastard, but I’m beginning to think you would’ve done this series a favor by staying dead.

    In a but a single episode, you’ve pulled a proverbial Anime Tenchou and tried to ham up what was an apparently aspiring story and taken it to such ridiculous heights that no one can take it seriously anymore; only in your unfortunate case, no one got the joke.

    Nevermind your apparent shamelessness in convincing your fellow students through an unappealing striptease (FOR THE PLOT!), you’ve also splendidly managed to shoulder your apparent crush with the lives of not only yourself, but all your fellow students and your parents as well, iirc. (Love Makes You Dumb)?

    1. majestic prince rank is higher than valvrav lol you need to get your head fix.
      IT’s different opinion lol at least i am sure valvrave is 2nd and majestic prince is 3rd , majestic prince = Macross frontier remake with stupid support character. you might enjoy majestic prince if you don’t know mighthy glory of old Gandum and Macross. I enjoy it but seriously there is some hole in your non existent argument XD

    2. IMO not one is better than the other since each one is playing different cards here: Valvrave’s focus is the common “A vs B with C inbetween” that we saw in GS and GSD, Gargantia focuses on “the lost boy” and “rediscover Earth” plot, while MJP focuses on the main characters and their interaction with war, common “A vs B” war plot.

      The Moondoggie
  22. What more people should realize is that Shouko’s plan might give us a wacky musical segment next episode and some false sense of peace, in order to give the story a break in the action, but this probably won’t last without further consequences getting in the way of her idealistic little stunt.

    If it’s not any of the realistic concerns some critics have brought up, although they are based on many assumptions we don’t really know about right now (ie: how are energy, food, supplies, etc. handled and what are their current levels)), I’m betting that someone, whether internally or externally, will intentionally mess things up or otherwise take control of the situation.

    Not because the show is smart, but because just having the students cruise along the universe forever would be boring. And this show isn’t a very big fan of boredom, despite having very little in terms of logic, so another twist will likely put more complications on the scene. Chill out.

    1. I think they’re actually other forms of Valvrave. If you notice the ending shot of Valvrave disassembled and its avatar, there are parts of the other forms scattered around.

  23. Anyone know the recent show “last resort” 13 episodes where a rogue nuc sub took over an island and is probably the closest to the current situation where they had to deal with internal dissention as well as multiple outside threats.


    Btw, laughing at some of these comments that are obviously taking this show way more seriously than they should. I love it a lot already, it gives me a very Code Geass vibe.

    1. Some parts of this show are meant to be not serious while other parts are serious. However, I was only pointing out that despite how over the top everything is, most of the events of this show are logical. Improbable, yes. Impossible, no.

      1. Honestly while I don’t agree with people saying it’s a trainwreck or talking about it having plotholes I do think it’s something that you’re meant to watch while being entertained just by how audacious some of the plot developments are. I think it is because they are ‘improbable’ or a bit over the top that it’s getting these types of comments while they do have a certain logic to them. People nitpicking about how things are improbable when you’re just meant to be entertained is what I meant by funny.

      2. Some people have wider comfort zone compared to others when accepting over the top events, so I don’t particularly blame them.

        I do agree that people are too nitpicky when you’re supposed to enjoy the show as it is.

      3. I blame shitty, pointless, slice-of-life anime for alienating some anime watchers from over-the-top anime like Valvrave or Guilty Crown or Code Geass(1 and 2). They are made to think anime should resemble reality AT ALL TIMES!

        LOL, why are you watching anime or play videogames? Isn’t it to separate from reality and take a break in the the first place? What’s the point when you are going to do in games or watch what you have been doing everyday IRL?

        It would probably never happen IRL, children taking over with a huge mecha at their side. Unless something over-the-top like a war in Gundam-scale happens, because adults die more easily during the war, than children. If you guys saw CoN 2, the Pevensy(?) siblings were sent away from where the war is, while adults and men able to carry arms and fight remains.

        The Moondoggie
    2. @The Moondoggie:

      I’ve been thinking the same thing for a while actually. In the early 90’s and early 2000’s shows like this (Nadesico comes to mind but also Slayers and King Gainer) were a lot more common and generally accepted for what they were and people could just be entertained by their bombast as well as their more genuine character moments. I don’t think it’s necessarily that people expect hardcore realism out of anime these days though, just for things to be obvious and imminently self-explanatory, which this show really isn’t with it’s tongue in cheek sense of humor and in-jokes. I also think the styles of comedy in anime is pretty limited these days so people might not recognize when this show is playing fast and loose and when a development is meant to be made note of.

      Kaioshin Sama
  25. I’m pretty sure everyone already knew he was primarily there for the robot. Nothing charity about that.

    Also, it’s called closing the deal. If these guys are the methodical baddies they want to be, they’ll take out any countermeasures.

    And in general, if something like this needs THIS MUCH WISHFUL THINKING in order to justify it after only 4 episodes, it means the story is not of to a good start.

    1. Did you just filtered out some words from my post again? I said he pretended, the people take things at face value.

      They were already at checkmate when Haruto got into the Valvrave.

      It’s not wishful thinking, it’s called thinking positive.

      1. If everyone knew what he was there for, then the “charity” excuse is voided. Which is why it cannot be used as reasoning as to why he was there when he shouldn’t have been.

        They were able to keep him from it before and would’ve been able to do so if they had brought people who were meant to do this job. Like a military officer. Or an R&D specialist. Or anyone with public relations skills. Or any combination of the three.

        Really? Because you seem to be going by information that was not given to us rather than what has already been presented.

      2. How would normal civilians know about his true motives?

        Who could have predicted students would manage to free Haruto and Haruto being able to switch bodies? No military officer or R&D specialist is able prevent this.

        I’m going by all the information we have.

      3. Giant Robot shows up —> Giant Robot takes down invading robots and could win the war —> Government Official shows up —> G-Man wants the robot.

        It’s something literally any civilian, loyal to the government or not, can figure out.

        And that didn’t stop them from capturing him before. The point is that this could’ve been handled far better with different people.

        Any serious defense of teenage girl president or a government comprised entirely of teenagers is wishful thinking by definition.

  26. The point is, how would civilians know that the government wants the robot? The people only have what is shown by the media for reference. Unless you’re personally there, the chances of finding out the government’s motives is near nil.

    Not everyone are strategists like Lelouch or L-11 that could predict so far ahead. No normal official would be able to predict the students being able to free Haruto.

    I have already gave my points on why governing such a small community is possible. It’s up to you whether you buy it or not. And I’m positive about them being able to pull this off.

    1. Because the robot is invincible and piloted by their new hero. There is literally no way a government would pass that up if it were in their back yard. This is the most simplest logic.

      Which is why, plot-wise, this would’ve been a great opportunity to introduce a military officer who WOULD be a match for L-11. But no, we got Moses Figaro because they want to stress the point that teenagers can run a government and adults are dumb.

      Name any successful execution of teenagers running a community, no matter what the size, or whether it was real or fictional. Without examples, your statement holds no water.

    2. So you’re saying that just because it never happened before means its impossible?

      People are led to believe by what is shown in the media. Unless the people really mistrust this particular politician, suspicion will never enter into the picture.

      Why are you convinced that people would find out the whole situation just from watching the media? Manipulating information is common and is their specialty.

      1. More importantly, it’s what actually happened. And like I said, they’d think it even if they supported that faction. “The governments here for the robot, hopefully they’ll put it to good use!” COMMON. SENSE.

        And I notice you have no rebuttals to my other points, so I’m guessing you’re receding them.

      2. Politicians only care about public opinions. It’s not common sense when the robot belongs to JIOR and stealing it would be wrong. No civilians would expect politicians they respect to do that. All they see on TV is Figaro saving civilians of JIOR. You have to understand that the audience point of view is not equal to the point of view of the civilians in the show. You know things they don’t. Therefore, they can’t reach the same conclusion like you did.

        What makes you think geniuses like L-11 who appear once every century would be everywhere.
        L-11 is a one in a million case.

      3. Doesn’t mean we have to assume that all of the students are mindless sheep who can’t put 2 and 2 together. The students may not know everything, but they know enough to know that the government they live in wants the robot, and since they support that government (or at least did before this episode happened), they’d want the government to have the robot. It wouldn’t even be stealing because it’s on their property and fighting for their citizens.

        Apparently a five-in-a-million case because there’s four more just like him. It’s called having a foil and every other show like this has at least one on both sides of the fight. There’s no reason the only other big faction wouldn’t have an ace pilot tactician. They’ll probably reveal one later, but this would’ve been a better opportunity.

        Your points have no examples so they amount to nothing but conjecture.

      4. I think we have been at different wavelengths all this while. Figaro does not care what the students think. He care about what the civilians at his home country think.

        And until Shoko came into the picture, all the students trusted Figaro. They even doubted Shoko at first. No, they never thought that the Valvrave was their target.

        I’m explaining why their actions and events are logical. I don’t need examples to prove logic.

        Let’s just agree to disagree. It’s obvious you’re arguing for the sake of arguing. None of my points are going to change your mind at this point. I’ll drop the argument.

      5. And I’m not talking about what Figaro wants, I’m talking about what the students are thinking.

        They doubted that they would leave them there, not that they would take the robot. If you’re on the topic of logic, it would be logical for them to think that as well. And you need examples for ANY serious discussion. Period.

        Yeah, and something tells me that no matter how far off the edge this show goes, you’ll defend it to your last dying breath. We had a guy who did that for Guilty Crown too.

      6. FiveOVER you should just ignore Da5id since he’s the type of troll that knows already the answer he was given and yet refuse to see it as answers and just repeat the question like an idiot, denying anything he dislikes as plot convenience.

        Really, he’s just like that in Guilty Crown too(yeah, I was the “guy” he was mentioning there).

        He’s the type that has problems with over-the-top events like “children taking over” and “adults being incompetent”.

        F___ Y__. Here is a guy who answered your questions and again you continue to troll this show’s fan by ignoring or disregarding them as plot convenience. Go back to LIA. People like you are accepted there. We don’t need shitposters like you here.

        The Moondoggie
      7. And apparently you’re forgetting that practically everyone accept you agreed that these were problems in both series. If you look at the comments here, you’ll see the same thing.

      8. >you agreed that these were problems in both series

        I didn’t agree on anything. You’re making things up like a shithead again. Also as far as this series goes, it seems no one has a problem with it being over-the-top. It’s just you.

        Go shit somewhere else “critic”.

        The Moondoggie
      9. And I have no problem with the over-the-top moments either. It’s just the reason they are over-the-top in the first place is because they are FUCKING RIDICULOUS, which is were the appeal is coming from for most people, including myself. Even Seishun says that the plotholes are big enough to run the title mech through.

        The enjoyment of this show comes from the fact that it MAKES NO SENSE and that the show knows that it MAKES NO SENSE by being as nonsensical as it has been and will continue to be. So, since even the show isn’t trying to hide that it MAKES NO SENSE, it MAKES NO SENSE to say that it makes sense. Because it doesn’t. And that’s why people like it.

      10. >The enjoyment of this show comes from the fact that it MAKES NO SENSE and that the show knows that it MAKES NO SENSE by being as nonsensical as it has been and will continue to be.

        Doesn’t that go for all anime except shitty SoL genre shows? Also it seems that it makes no sense to you because it’s over-the-top, ridiculous and has no IRL proof the idea might work. Well, duh, this is anime. Why are you complaining over the natural characteristic of something? Its like complaining about pears being only green or yellow, or complaining OreImo being an incest romcom.

        >So, since even the show isn’t trying to hide that it MAKES NO SENSE, it MAKES NO SENSE to say that it makes sense. Because it doesn’t.

        Well, it makes sense to keep the robot, and to create a zone where they can be of equal footing with ARUS and Dorssia, because if they don’t they’ll probably all end up dead and get “colonized” or “occupied”, forever losing their own identity as an independent nation away from ARUS and Dorssia.

        What part of it makes no sense to you? Removing the module? They did that at the end of the episode so we can wait for an explanation.

        Forming an Independent State? Like I said, you can’t trust them to form a government, but forming a community is not a farfetched idea?

        Threatening both sides with the robot? Isn’t that self-explanatory when the robot in question is the most powerful one yet in the series a.f.a.w.k.?

        So what makes no sense to you?

        The Moondoggie
      11. I think we should stop here. Da5id have proven that he won’t be convinced no matter what since he already made up his/her mind. There are already 100 replies that stated his stance in this argument. Making another 100 replies is reminiscent of shouting at a deaf person.

      12. There’s a difference between having a suspension of disbelief and NOT EVEN TRYING. Meaning, something in a fictional setting that would be impossible to overlook in real life, is easier to do in fiction depending on how it’s handled, like how Clark Kent hides his identity as Superman by just wearing glasses or why Harry Potter doesn’t just pull a .50 cal on Voldemort. Even in Gurren Lagann, the most over-the-top mecha show in years, can give the viewer a suspension of disbelief because, while Spiral Energy is seen as the answer to almost any problem, it is used plausibly and consistently as an energy source.

        What would break that suspension is if Clark went around without glasses and no one noticed he was Superman, or if Harry just called the cops on a Death Eater, or if the Dai-Gurren team used Spiral Energy to make all their food out of nothing. These break the context the story had set in place and make it impossible to take the story seriously. So it’s good that they didn’t do that.

        Slice-of-life shows are usually COMEDY BASED. They don’t need to be taken seriously, so they can be as over-the-top as they damn well please as long as they’re being funny. But you don’t take any anime seriously, so I doubt you could tell the difference.

        The way this show broke suspension of disbelief is through Shouko’s proposal to break off the module because of how little sense that makes. A teenage girl with no political experience whatsoever suddenly proposes a school become an independent community and try to keep away from two gigantic factions and expects it to work. Just having a bunch of kids and one giant robot, no matter how powerful, does not make you on equal footing with any big military power, and it would be idiotic to think otherwise. There’s absolutely no way to take any of that seriously, and the fact that they’re breaking it out so soon in the series means that it’s going to be voided soon anyway, and by that point, this show’s credibility as a serious drama will be lost, if it hasn’t been already.

        By the way, just because we don’t know the next episode doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to react however I damn well please, so get off my case. Now let’s save this for Saturday.

      13. By the way, check pretty much any comment here, and you’ll see a similar reaction to mine. Namely Seishun’s since he’s the one blogging the show.

        That reaction being: “Hey, it makes no sense, but it’s fun.”

      14. >There’s absolutely no way to take any of that seriously, and the fact that they’re breaking it out so soon in the series means that it’s going to be voided soon anyway.

        Dumb assumptions again. Also an idea that can’t be taken seriously doesn’t mean it can’t actually work. I always think Clark Kent being disguised with just a pair of glasses isn’t meant to be taken seriously, but somehow the author made it work.

        So ok, let’s wait for the next episode and see what dumb assumptions you’ll make next post.

        The Moondoggie
      15. @ Da5id

        Stop posting bait comments already. I know you have a lot of free time but this argument has to stop now. It is spoiling the enjoyment of others who enjoy the show in different ways.

        There are people who think this show is logical, myself included, and there are those who don’t. The only distinction from the pack are those that ridicule other people’s point of view when they’ve already stated their points. Please stop.

        Just let time heal that wound of yours.

      16. >”Hey, it makes no sense, but it’s fun.”

        I used ctrl+f and it didn’t land on any of Sei’s post, you’re making things up again. Liar and an idiot through and through.

        The Moondoggie
      17. Yeah, why are we doing this exactly? If we’re both set on just disagreeing with each other until the bitter end, what’s the point of even talking? Clearly nothing I say is going to getting through, so I don’t even know why I’m trying anymore.

        I put that first comment up there to get a laugh. It was a joke, nothing more. Not to start a endless debate about how seriously to take a story that should’ve ended with GC.

        When I get into an actual debate or argument with someone, it’s with the hope that we’ll come to a compromise or one of us (half of the time, me) will recede their points. That point as obviously passed, so I don’t think there’s much point in continuing.

      18. @Philip

        I’d stop, in fact I didn’t even want to retort to this, but he just had to refer me. I also think there is no cure for the level of idiocy he has, as well his Pseudologia fantastica, so there really is no use retorting to him.

        So I’d like to ask 5over, and remind myself, to just ignore him next time.

        The Moondoggie
      19. The refrain from referring to me Da5id, because I don’t like arguing with people who skim over the reasons presented to him and lie.

        I don’t like you anyway.

        The Moondoggie
  27. So am I allowed to call it a trainwreck yet?

    Mind you I am enjoying it because it’s so damn retarded, but please don’t down vote me because you somehow think this plot makes sense. It doesn’t, and you know it.

  28. Ridiculous.

    Utterly and hopelessly ridiculous. The absurdity of it all! How can high school kids build a whole country by themselves without a plan, with almost everyone chiming in and being so cheery about opposing two of the most fearsome powers in the universe because of one giant robot?

    Totally absurd.

    And I love it. 😀

    Now, to me absurdity doesn’t equate to being terrible. Most anime watchers have probably seen crazier situations unfold, and you expect all of us to gape and scream bloody murder because this illogical logic doesn’t follow our sense of logic? Be reasonable, man. :p

    Jokes aside, I have to admit to having an incredulous reaction at the first mention of an academy of students creating an independent country of their own. It is pretty much out of this world. Then again, you don’t have teenagers in real life taking out 500 men by himself or a utterly wipe out a well-trained company of 200 soldiers.

    So yes, there you have it – A supposed flaw. A departure from what we consider as common sense in our perspective. Yet IMO, this makes the show no less enjoyable. In fact, I kinda like it that way. It’s either I be a positive ‘fool’ who enjoys what he sees or a sour-faced philosopher making out the negatives of life and being…negative about it. (no offense intended to anyone here).

    The naivete and folly of creating a country on the spur of a moment will eventually haunt them, of course, but what I’m more interested in the current episode is the strong showing Shoko gave, and my word – a president’s daughter! Haruto looks to be marrying up if the HaruShoko ship sails on.

    The bevy of characters also potentially means that there is plenty of room for development for some of these students. I for one want more Saki, and definitely more relationship dynamics between the antagonistic L-elf (who seemed to have found a little entertainment in the students here, some of whom defied his logic in how things should go) and the idealistic Haruto. Really curious to see how they would change each other and what this ‘revolution’ that L-elf is going on about is.

    Ridiculous, but awesome. Looking forward to future developments.

    1. The idea with creating their own country was utterly ridiculous, but it also illustrates well how crowd logic works. ‘Shoko, the PM’s daughter, is so enthusiastic about this, so let’s cheer her on! Tanoshii! STUDENT NATION STRONG! WE GET THE ROBOT! HOORAY!’. Few of them had any doubts or wanted a wider discussion, most just went with the flow. A perfect flock of sheep for Eruerufu to manipulate.

      1. And the fact that the vast majority people are underestimating the ridiculousness of this episode, attempting to logically reconcile the logically irreconcilable with regard to basic political science and physics speaks to the (painfully low) average knowledge level of crowd. Yet another reason to doubt its judgment…

    2. I can’t disagree with any of that. The ridiculous moments are what make this series so interesting. I had so many GTFO moments I lost track and we’re only on episode 4. Episode 4! I don’t know where this crazy anime is going but that doesn’t make the ride any less entertaining. Even if I didn’t research the show before hand I could have guessed it came from the same insane Code Geass creators. (I can’t make any comparisons to Guilty Crown because I never got around to watching beyond episode 2. Not because I didn’t like the series, I was just lazy.)

      As for creating a country full of students, run by students? It worked for the kids in “Lord of the Flies,” so what could possibly go wrong here? 😉 Who needs resources, currency, political stability, etc, when you have *this* kind of logic?

      Anyone trying to find any actual logic in Valvrave… Well, it’s “you mistake.”

  29. Good god. Now how will this go eh? Shouko starts being SpaceGeorgeWashington and L-Elf gets kicked to the side, failing to see Shouko from the side with a very good plan. Ingenious? Yes. Flawed? Maybe, but then they’ll try leeching off ARUS or try liberating one JIOR module at a time and receive help from their allies on Earth, both from JOIR or ARUS, and the flawed plan could work.

    ARUS betrays them, Dorssia gets the Valvrave. Dorssia attacks or harms their hostage JOIR citizens, ARUS gets the Valvrave. Since Valvrave is the weapon that can turn the tide of war with a flick of a finger, the side that gets Valvrave wins.

    But let’s NOT forget that the Valvrave right now is the only one. We saw different other ones in the OP. If they are the one and same or are separate bots actually would affect the plan(if there are 5, then there are 20% chances to succeed in infiltrating the module and steal one).

    Plotwise, their decision seems like a “carried away by the moment” decision, both for everyone and for Shouko.

    10/10. Plotwist and over the top developments. Also for giving Shouko plot armour(now we know why she didn’t die: she’s too important).

    The Moondoggie
  30. Am’I th eonly one thinking that this will end next ep with every student dead?
    ‘Couse that big fuck Dorussia Warship just has to poke a big enough hole en end of the story.

    “We will give the Valvrave to ARUS”?
    How you are all dead!

  31. Do people in the comment section not care about mecha design and the animation? Is the plot the only thing that matters in an anime? I’d read more books if that was the case.

    I like how the antagonists have the same core unit, but have different extensions to suit their own style. So far my favorite IDEAL is H-Neun’s, because firing missiles that fire more missiles is missileception.

    The space variants of the splicer Z type look really cool IMO, despite being cannon fodder in this episode.

    The unmanned Waffe’s shield formation sort of reminds me of how the romans used their squared shaped shields to leave just enough room for their javelin fire while offering an impenetrable defense.

    I like how the Valvrave’s rifle sends particles emitting kinetic rounds, although i guess the double bayonet and beam scythe mounted weapons could feel like overkill.

    Can’t wait to the other Valvrave units, especially Valvrave 5 and it’s bow like weapon. Also I hope the IDEAL’s, despite their sizes, will see a 1/144 model release.

    1. “The main reason I watch mecha, is for the mech design”

      I really forget this when people starts discussing the plot. Anyways…

      Personally I find that Dorssia’s mech design a bit alienating like some of the mechs in Gundam AGE. I’m really more partial to the humanoid design with arms, legs, head, etc. The mechs used by L-Elf’s team looks more like bugs.

      And um, beam scythe? I didn’t see any beams on the scythe though.

      The Moondoggie
      1. Indeed, there were no beam scythe’s, I just got too used to saying it while talking about the Deathscythe Gundam.

        It’s true that the Dorssian units are sort of unconventional, but wouldn’t it get boring if every one had humanoid units? I mean, we already have Gundam for that.

      2. I actually think that the mecha design in the Dorssian army is rather practical. Since humanoid shaped mechas are not really a good idea in the first place considering that having thrusters already mitigates the need for the legs (it add weights too) and having an extra unneeded head (also adds weight). They do look good though, so I am not complaining. (Don’t get me wrong, I think humanoid mechas are cooler)

        The Waffes on the other hand does not have any unneeded components. They have a good combination of the shields, main cannon (only fires straight) and the side arms that can shoot in many directions. (they made full use of the flexibility of the arms)

        Ideal’s design is also very effecient considering they have weapons throughout their entire body. The missiles that can be controlled manually is also a very cool idea.

        The system that enables pilots to control multiple unmanned waffes is also ingenious. It seems the weapon developers in the Valvrave universe is very competent.

        At the end of the day though, I still love humanoid mechas best despite how illogical its design. 😛

  32. My inner pessimist was really fired up in the last few minutes of this episode.
    ‘Forming an independent state with just a module and a bunch of overzealous teenagers who have a robot, which capabilities they are unsure of,’ sounds like a good idea to me.
    Of course what got it going even further was the fact that they severed their module. If they use deus ex machina in the next episode and say that it’s 100% replenish able, I’m going to be mad.
    Also, lets not forget that their blackmail won’t work, because they are surrounded, something which they seemed to momentarily forget. How exactly are they going to get the Valvrave through the Dorssian military, and then fly all the way to Earth, where they will hand it over?
    The problem with communication which I’ve seen brought up will probably be fixed by the resident ‘hikikomori’ inside of the box fortress… It just seems convenient.
    And then there is the matter of Shouko being the president’s daughter. Oh boy. If she is the presidents daughter, why is she then in a school, no-where close to the capital and stuff? Also, what status does Haruto have? Of course that is presuming that their political system is somewhat reminiscent of what we have now, being the child of the president should be a big deal, shouldn’t it?
    Especially considering how terrible the security is, (The excuse of them being neutral doesn’t really cut it for me, especially considering how no-one in the entire series was surprised that the Dorssian’s invaded them), I mean, seriously. When they were told their families were taken hostage, they were like, ‘yeah, they would do that.’ If you co-exist with a country that does stuff like that, being lax with the security isn’t really the smartest thing. Especially considering the module had a secret super-robot hidden inside of it. That would be a reason to upgrade the security a little at least. 0 guards protecting the most powerful robot in existence. Sounds cool.
    Disregarding all the stuff that requires thinking, the characters up to this point are… well, not anything special or memorable, apart from L-11. They all blindly jump onto a burning bandwagon, and Haruto’s explanation as to why he’s doing it, is because he wants to protect everyone… “I’ll protect them all”… I feel like at this point I’ve heard that sentence all too many times. L-11 and the ‘hikikomori’ are the only two people in this entire anime that I feel can’t be taken at face value. Haruto, I feel, was close to going down a route that might have led to something really interesting, but that was set on hold if not completely ignored by the fact that they wanted to ship a couple. He even said himself that monsters don’t have feelings, but the next day he seems to have all forgotten about that.
    I think a very interesting plot line would be something along the lines of Haruto turning vampire again –> hurts someone close to him –> isolates himself because he wants to protect them, and then maybe have some character progression or something, because I feel at this point he is too… plain.
    Blurgh. I really hope the next episode of this anime will do something good, something that makes sense, because I don’t think that I’ll be able to stand the show if everything goes according to Shouko’s plan, mostly because of how stupid it is… <_<

    1. >Also, lets not forget that their blackmail won’t work, because they are surrounded, something which they seemed to momentarily forget.

      How is being surrounded means that their blackmail won’t work? With the Valvrave at stake ARUS can’t just leave the JOIR module alone. This will probably end with ARUS forcing their way to create a war front where the JOIR module is inbetween the ARUS forces and Dorssia’s.

      >How exactly are they going to get the Valvrave through the Dorssian military, and then fly all the way to Earth, where they will hand it over?

      They don’t have to go to Earth though: Dorssia can go to them instead.

      >Oh boy. If she is the presidents daughter, why is she then in a school, no-where close to the capital and stuff?

      She’s a student. Also before they got a chance to evacuate her from that module Dorssia had invaded the whole Dyson sphere.

      >Especially considering how terrible the security is, (The excuse of them being neutral doesn’t really cut it for me, especially considering how no-one in the entire series was surprised that the Dorssian’s invaded them)

      Actually they were surprised. JOIR seems to have this idea that since they’re neutral, no one would attack them, no problem there since JOIR pays for it’s neutrality(stated in episode 1). My ONLY problem with this idea is: if they claim they ARE neutral, what the heck is a robot, capable of turning the tables of the war, doing in JOIR? No wonder Dorssia would attack!

      Anyway its too late to faceplam about the robot: It did come in handy afterwards. But IMO, this whole war was all started by the Valvrave’s existence… or by the idiot who had the Valvrave created in the first place.

      The Moondoggie
  33. The revolution is five years earlier than he expected?! Predictions are prophecies?! L-Elf, what?!?!?!!? Btw his voice actor is awesome… starting to love it. This guy is just too much.


    What is with Shoko and touching her skirt… I was jokingly thinking that she was going to strip every time she touched her skirt but I didn’t think she would really… this girl is pretty ridiculous, what…

    Also, is it me or was there a character that looked a lot like Shoko? Uh…

    (Ah… I wanted to post this when the post was first up and there were less comments but I had a busy weekend… the sadness… lol.)

  34. I’m getting a very Guilty Crown vibe from this series…great animation, interesting characters, nonsensical plot…

    HOWEVER, this could still turn out well. The students own country setting has promise in series like Starship Operators or Infinite Ryvius.

  35. I watched all three mecha anime this season and I must say each of them have their own strengths. Gargantia with its interesting setting and situation for our protagonist, Valvrave with its many surprising twists and uber mecha battles and Majestic Prince with it’s quirky and likeable characters and their dynamics.

    As a mecha fan, I couldn’t be any happier.

  36. Some infos about Valvrave:

    RM-011 Valvrave-I
    -The first Valvrave, a humanoid weapon developed in secret by Jior. The energy it released possesses a special hardening ability, and for fixed armaments it equipped with “Variable Vulcans” on its head, “Hand Rays” on both its wrists and “Fold Sickles” under both its arms. The I is a unit that possesses standard weapons for close combat, shooting and defense, and when Jior is attacked by Dorssia, it was boarded by Haruto who coincidentally happened to be present. Its body color, initially with a white undertone, changed to a black undertone after being boarded by a pilot. Total Height 22.6m, Gross Weight 19.9t

    The Valvrave is a liberator!?
    -Starting with Valvrave-I, there are confirmed to be currently 5 Valvraves based on those that appeared in the opening. The question of who will pilot Units III to VI (which equals to giving up on being human) will become clear as the story continues.

    RM-031 Valvrave-III
    -Its special characteristic is the huge arms “Armstronger Cannons” equipped to both its shoulders. It is a power-type unit just as it looks. Total Height 26.3m, Gross Weight 27.1t

    RM-047 Valvrave-IV
    -It is a unit that specializes in high maneuver battle, using the “Spindle Knuckles” on both its shoulders. It seems to have leg-like devices on its back. Total Height 24.4m, Gross Weight 24.0t

    RM-056 Valvrave-V
    -It is a defense-oriented unit has increased armor applied everywhere. Part of its special mantle-like equipment “IMP” is molded together with a “Clear Fossil” that possesses a hardness that exceeds its armor material. Total Height 24.5m, Gross Weight 25.2t

    RM-069 Valvrave-VI
    -Its special characteristic is its special equipment “All Creation” (森羅万象), which covers its entire body with the “Senses Nerve” sensors that are shared by all the humanoid weapons. Its function is unknown. Total Height 19.9m, Gross Weight 22.6t

    Credit: Anon from 4chan.

    1. Which is where you will notice a very weird thing: Supposedly where is unit Valvrave-II (RM-12 to RM-30?). I can’t wait to hear an explanation: you just don’t skip numbering without reasons…

      The Moondoggie
    2. Unit-02 is probably another unit that Haruto gets to pilot as an upgrade while the rest gets their own respective pilots, either opposing or supporting the students’ cause.

  37. And…late comment again.

    Anyways, to some it up…

    1. Glad Haruto readily denied a contract with L-elf.
    2. So that’s what happens when you try to pilot it without resigning your humanity. Ouch.
    3. Shoko’s attempt to strip to prove her truthfulness/sincerity was pretty funny, especially with Saki’s little snark at the end of it.
    4. Of course Yusuke knows about the vent because it leads to the room the girls change in for the…school pagaent, was it?…Shoko. Why do you look so surprised?
    5. Glad that Haruto and Shoko’s little “fight” got resolved quickly.
    6. If there is any justice in the world, Senator’s Figaro Moses line will go down in history.
    7. Highlight: After seeing L-elf be so smug about his “prophecies,” it was awesome to see Shoko, of all people, completely derail his contract scheme (if only for the time being). Her being the Prime Minister’s daughter was a bit of a shocker, though.

    Anyways, next episode looks to be a breather, but I still can’t wait for it to come, even though I’m think the whole “idependent school country” idea is going to end well.

    And then, less than a week afterwards, right before Episode 6 comes out, the full Opening will be out. The suspense is killing me!

  38. So far Module 77 escaped the fate of Heliopolis and retaining their ‘Astrays’.
    On the flipside, you can see them as Zion which declared independence and had the first humanoid MS.

    L-Elf failed to be like Zero, for now?

    This anime will have 2 seasons, wonder how will they break it up.
    A few months in between the 2 seasons or a few years?


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