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「契約」 (Keiyaku)
“Contract”
The pen is mightier than the sword. It always has been, but Shiroe’s pen is powerful enough to tell the world how it should be. Then there’s more berserk Krusty, Marie-nee x Naotsugu, and Isuzu as well. Wow, what an episode!
Anima & Psyche
In fiction, problems like Rudy’s death are best when you can get most of the way to an answer by yourself with the information they’ve already provided. Between what we learned about anima (HP) and psyche (MP) from Regan, and what it meant about revival (both for adventurers and People of the Land), we could get part of the way to the answer ourselves. Rudy needed both HP and MP, and since his body hadn’t disappeared, his anima had clearly been restored. Then Shiroe used his mana channeling ability to force MP back into Rudy’s body, giving him the juice to power his mind. Yet he didn’t wake up, and here’s where the show takes the leap that was both brilliant and yet not exactly what I expected.
Shiroe Rewrites The Rules of the World
In truth, it was no surprise that Rudy didn’t die. It just wouldn’t have felt right, not after all the development he has gotten and the tone this story has. Yet as is often the case, and it’s more how he was revived rather than if, because of what it reveals about the world and how our heroes can interact with it.
First, zombie Rudy. Totally didn’t expect that! Though since I can think of multiple games where characters have items or abilities that do exactly that, fair enough. The brilliant leap was how Shiroe took the lesson learned with Nyanta’s cooking and applied to to his own Scribe skill. In short: Nyanta’s style of cooking works because the players have the skill (by game rules), but they do the actions themselves, allowing them to circumvent the game’s base rules and do something (make food taste good) that they couldn’t do otherwise. In the same way, Shiroe has the skill and items (by game rules) to write contracts – The Fairy King’s paper, ink from the Time Dragon’s eye, and his Lv 90 Scribe skill – which he used to circumvent the game’s base rules and do something he wouldn’t be able to do otherwise.
That’s the dry way to put it, and why it makes sense. At a more basic level, Shiroe just told reality to shut the fuck up and do what it’s told. He just rewrote the rules of the reality on a whim! Not only that, he wrote the contract such that Rudy would remain an adventurer even if the contract was broken, i.e. Rudy failed in his duties to Log Horizon or left the guild. Not only did Shiroe just make reality itself his personal bitch, but he did it in the most honrable way possible, such that Rudy is not beholden to him in the least. I…wow! If there’s anything Touno-sensei’s writing tells us, it’s that words are far more powerful than weapons, but Shiroe takes this to a whole new level. Fuck yeah!
Berserker Krusty, Shirtless Krusty
As if that wouldn’t be enough for most shows, this episode gave us more. First, shirtless Krusty. Eat your heart out, ladies! (But back off, ’cause he’s Lenessia’s.) In all seriousness, the extra helping of battle-crazed berserker Krusty was awesome, and it served to wrap up the biggest obstacle of the goblin invasion, serving to bring it to a satisfactory conclusion. Plus I expect these two ladies will start appearing more often now, given the prominent position they had here. I’m all for more characters after all the amazing ones we’ve gotten so far.
On The Moonlit Beach
But there’s more! Like any proper Kyoukaisen fan, I prefer lots of OTPs (trope!) to the more frequent harem situation we find in most anime, so when they take the time to show Naotsugu and Marie-nee on a moonlit beach together, with Naotsugu kindly fanning Marie after a long battle, plus that atmosphere at the end… Well, needless to say my shipping sense are going nuts. Go for it, Naotsugu! (Or let’s face it, Marie-nee. She seems more like the purser in this relationship.) You’ll be so adorable together!
An Adventurer’s Resolve, Minori’s Resolve
But they weren’t threw yet. There’s still more! First of all, backing up, I like how they took the time to note how Minori has never asked Shiroe for help before. She has asked for knowledge or training, but it’s always been so she and the others can help themselves. Pointing this out first thing help show us how serious the situation was if Minori was finally asking for Shiroe’s help directly, as well as how much Rudy has come to mean to her.
Past that though, Shiroe talked about an adventurer’s resolve. When adventurer is used simply as a synonym for player, this is silly – adventurers don’t necessarily has resolve, though the high-level, high-performing ones certainly do. In this world they find themselves in, though, adventurers are another thing entirely. They’re not just normal people who decide on a life of adventurer – only Rudy has managed to pull that off, and only with a lot of help, a lot of luck, and Shiroe shelving the rules of the universe under “Fiction” in his personal library. No, adventurers are his people, and it’s only those who have the resolve to keep fighting that are fit to be his nakama. When Shiroe gave that speech, when he denied Rundel Haus the easy way out of death…chills. So many chills.
A Date in the Cathedral
AND YET THERE’S MORE! While Rudy made the remarkable journey of going from insufferable buffoon to a crowd favorite, Isuzu has had no shortage of character development as well. The women of Log Horizon are strong, so her marching into the cathedral and telling Rudy that he can never do something so stupid ever again…it was so uplifting and touching and d’aaawww inducing all at once! Isuzu has finally figured out how to best deal with Rudy. If he’s going to be a silly dog, better to treat him like one and be his “master”, ne? Ufufu~, and also d’aaaawww!
Looking Ahead – Akatsuki & The Waltz
One of the downsides of a large cast of characters – though I consider it a worthwhile one myself – is that sometimes, characters don’t get as much spotlight as we’d like. Akatsuki has been laboring under that as of late, but it looks like next week will rectify the situation! She’s unsure, and there’s a waltz mentioned in the episode title… I know I say this every week, but I cannot wait, I cannot wait!!
tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – Shiroe tells reality to shut the hell up & do as it’s told. Meanwhile, relationships advance as the goblin invasion falls! #loghorizon 20
Random thoughts:
- So Shiroe’s role is to grant the dreams of selfish women, eh? Or one selfish woman and a lot of selfless ones, in this case.
- Bonus points for Minori, who realized Rudy was a Person of the Land as well. Seriously though, only people as dense as Tohya or as trusting as Serara wouldn’t notice after all this time, I feel. Minori wouldn’t be Shiroe’s protégé if she didn’t notice something like that.
- Most of us once disliked Rudy, and now he becomes an adventurer not because he wants glory, but to save people. Damn, that’s awesome. Screw it – Rudy avatar ENGAGED!
- I wonder what Rudy being an adventurer means for him vis a vis Earth? I still assume they’ll get out of here eventually, so I wonder what that’ll mean for him, as well as his relationship with Isuzu. Lenessia too, for that matter. Though if reality threatens to break up my ships, there’s always Shiroe to tell it to sit back down and shut the hell up, hah!
Check out my blog about storytelling and the fantasy novel I’m writing at stiltsoutloud.com. The last four posts: Mental domination, I never get to read my own work, I’m that guy, and Unexpected directions. My current combo counter: 36 days long.
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The RudyXIsuzu ship is sailing off~
And both Krusty X Lenessia and Naotsugu X Marie ships are getting steam pressure rising!
But the true treat of the episode was Shiro X Reality in a very abusive way. (Shut up bitch and do what I say!). What Shiro has done was setting up a precedent – turning the Lander into Adventurer, and once unlocked this ability is here to stay, just like discovery of flight and nuclear power were here to stay to change our world. This is basically what constitutes “world class magic”.
Shiroe has now earned the title of “The Incubator of Akihabara.”
Will you make a contract with him?
>Yes
No
Shiroe Combinator.
Shiroe the Demon Lord
Shiroe the Contractor
Shiroe the Devil Personified
last but not the least and the most important of them all:
Show Spoiler ▼
Amusingly, the actual Kyuubey is voiced by Akatsuki’s VA
mm Shiroe is The Devil…
lol reminded me so much of Mephistopheles with the contract!
With the diference Mephistopheles must be scare the hell out of Shiroe.
Man I cant wait: I wish RudyXIsuzu OTP is official already. Also RaynesiaXKrusty. Next episode is the end of this arc so it should be good. Anyway I wonder if magic can turn anyone into anything/any class now since they were able to turn a Lander into an adventurer. Maybe they can turn someone into a monster?
If I remember correctly this was the end of this arc, and the next episode was actually the beginning of the next one… in a sense.
Serious moment time: the ability to turn People of the Land into Adventurers is going to have serious ramifications. All it takes is a high scribe level and a few MP- and HP-specific spells/items and suddenly you can go from literally NPC to fully fledged player. Once that genie is let loose the current political order is going to be flipped on its head. Shiroe isn’t the only high levelled scribe (I am guessing), nor does everyone follow the stoic philosophy. Nothing remains secretive nor isolated forever after all. Although it’s unlikely this will be touched upon directly by the show, it adds further evidence that this (for the characters) is not a fully understood world.
Otherwise looking forward to more jealous and brooding Akatsuki, been missing her snippy comments and total confusion in the face of complex negotiations 😛
True, but I suspect that Minori and the others will keep their mouths shut. They agreed to that in order to resurrect their friend, and they all kinda care about Shiroe too, so it should be safe enough. It’s if someone else figures it out, though…
Normally I would expect something like that to be figured out by other high level scribes at some point, but no one else managed to figure out the cooking secret despite it being a far more simple thing to discover, so…
For the cooking you have to remember it was discovered at a point everyone still thought they were in the game. No one thought anything would have changed (i.e. remaining subject only to the original game rules) so no one was willing to experiment.
Now though it is common knowledge that the game mechanics are not the only way to do things. As the laws of nature have not been completely determined (and at least 3 people know of world-class magic and its ramifications) people are not going to be so slow to (re)discover things. Remember too how fast the merchants constructed a steam engine after learning of cooking after all. A problem is complex only so long as you don’t know the boundaries of its complexity.
Well, I think that’s already no longer a secret. Did you notice that soon after Rudy was sent to the cathedral, we had a glimpse of Regan looking at the column of light, and smiling. He already knows.
This show does that very well, I mean, they don’t “tell” us that someone knows something, they let us “see” it, sometimes in a subtle way. The same thing happened with Minori being aware of Rudy’s class, as Stilts says:
yes, and she realized it before Isuzu, too. For the ones that don’t remember, go watch egain ep 14 at 21:42. It wasn’t easy to catch back then.
I suspect Regan probably will keep his mouth shut, and he remains an enigma to us all for the time being.
Shiroe’s discovery of the limitless possibilities in this world makes me wonder if there are other adventurers out there like him who are smart enough to do something crazy with their own skills, especially those outside of the Japan server.
We’ve seen how real life knowledge applies to engineering, cooking, and even scribing.
Wonder how irl knowledge of fighting translates beyond the boundaries of the game.
Also after seeing the strength of the unified Akihabara, I wonder if there’s an “evil counter-part” to Akihabara and if we’ll see a large scale PvP plot come into play.
The difference is that they’ve mostly used the cooking discovery to do things that were possible IRL (cook good food, make steam engines, etc). Shiroe is the first one to make the leap to thinking he can bend the rules of reality over his knee and make them his bitch. In both cases it takes a paradigm shift to consider the possibility, so even if one paradigm shift has become fundamentally understood, that doesn’t mean they’ll think of the next one. Eventually, yes, but maybe not until after they’re already out of the “game” anyway. That believable enough, at least to my eyes.
It’s a step further for sure. It’s one thing to dublicate things that works in our world. It’s another thing to do new magical things that could work in a magical world. It was at the very least not a sure thing to work.
Perhaps Shiore has hidden GM/Dev/Admin Powers, so he could modify Rudy’s NPC Database and give him the Flag of being an Adventure
(To speak in MMO AI Engine Language)
Cooking was probably like many scientific discoveries in the real world and several people in the world discovered it roughly at the same time. I imagine high level cooks were fairly rare in original game though so Shiro was lucky and skilled to be part of an elite group so that one of his friends from that group of elite players was the discoverer in the Japan area. In other areas of the world it might have been a different type of crafter to discover the ability to exceed the game but as Cooking did not produce tasty food in the game (probably better recovery or something, maybe just bragging rights new foods) and the other crafts were still useful the need for food to taste good probably gave cooking the edge in the drive to tinker urge.
But Regan might be one of a kind or very few in the world who might not want to talk to players so Shiro might be the only Adventurer with the key knowledge to come up with bending the rules of the world magic at least in the give Adventurer status to People of Land status discovery.
Right now story seams to be a real world working in part by physics that resemble the computer controls in a computer game so there is no longer an Admin status or any need for server down time as there is no server. There might be gods or something though, the one(s) represented in the Cathedral, that could work like Admin status. This show being a real world with real physics/laws of magic nicely explains why players can now bend/break the rules that they knew from the game.
Now if this is actually the future earth with a unremembered World Fraction like spell changing physics to resemble that of the game that could be interesting. 😉
All it’s going to take is someone who knows Rudy to see how he’s changed and then speak of that to someone else. It’s pretty damn amazing how quickly humans can put two and two together and come up with the solution once the problem is identified. Person of the Land now an actual Adventurer? How did that happen? Maybe we can do that too…? If such news broke out through rumour eventually someone through trial and error will identify how it was accomplished.
It’s also likely why it will likely not be a feature of Log Horizon, at least for this season. It’s not a major point of contention for the main characters nor a catalyst for any sort of threat to them. Now if some enemy found out about it and used that to try and satiate an inner need for conquest…nawh I’m getting ahead of myself 😛
It’s going to take someone who knew Rudy was a Person of the Land. Given that he’s apparently left his home and is now in the company of people who (aside from his current party) all thought he was an Adventurer already, there is likely little danger of that.
@Pancakes: All it takes is a high scribe level and a few MP- and HP-specific spells/items and suddenly you can go from literally NPC to fully fledged player. Once that genie is let loose the current political order is going to be flipped on its head. Shiroe isn’t the only high levelled scribe (I am guessing), nor does everyone follow the stoic philosophy. Nothing remains secretive nor isolated forever after all. .
While I agree that the event illustrates well the overall lack of understanding the world (both by Adventurers and PotL), I wouldn’t speculate that there’s going to be a rush of newly created PotL Adventurers anytime soon, if at all. To suggest “all it takes is xyz” is an understatement IMO. While I’m 99.9% sure Shiroe is not the only level 90 scribe, I suspect that there are not many of them since scribe doesn’t seem to be a popular subclass from what I’ve read.
In terms of secrecy, IMO that part is safe for a considerable length of time. This is not the same thing as the food discovery. The six people who know about the incident are trustworthy (IMO) whereas many more people (all of Crescent Moon including new recruits) knew about the food “secret”. Only Isuzu and Minori realized that Rudy was a PotL until this moment. So there’s no reason to suspect that anyone outside of those six (and Regen evidently in the anime) would think something radical happened. Just some poor noob Adventurer got killed and resurrected per SOP.
Also, while everyone has an interest in decent (if not good) tasting food, how many adventurers have an implicit urge to turn PotL into Adventurers – assuming they even considered it possible? Hard enough for many Adventurers to accept PotL as something more than a game NPC. If Rudy hadn’t been killed, Shiroe wouldn’t have made the attempt – and it was an attempt (he wasn’t 100% sure it would work when he tried). In contrast, many Adventurers were attempting to recreate the food sold openly by Crescent Moon. It’s not like Shiroe plans to open a “turn your favorite PotL into an Adventurer” shop.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, a key part is the spell components. The anime mentions the “Fairy King paper made from the best ingredients in the game” and “ink from the Time Dragon’s Eye”. It’s pretty clear you need some very rare materials for the spell. Given all of the above, IMO Rudy’s situation will remain a unique one – certainly at least for a long period of time.
FWIW, the LN makes the situation pretty clear. I’ll put it in a spoiler though IMO it’s really not one. Show Spoiler ▼
This makes the assumption that the ingredients are what made the contract a success. It is possible that this is not necessary. The thing is, not even Shiroe himself knows the mechanics behind it. Which is why he had no idea if it would work.
His only premise was that, and I spoiler in case it wasn’t in the anime,
Show Spoiler ▼
It is possible that Shiroe could’ve bestowed this in other ways. In fact, that would make more sense. He used the contract as a way to bestow adventurer-class, but the innate ability to do so probably lies elsewhere.
What I think right now is that Shiroe is one step ahead of most other adventurers in terms of figuring out the world, but he’s still quite far away from the likely high-tech society in the land’s past.
It’s why I made separate mention of how unlikely this point is to be expanded upon in the show. It’s secondary to the main developments, but important for its implications. We do not know what it takes to make a contract besides being a high level scribe. The materials mentioned may only be what he had on him at the time, or simply what is required to forge the document: there is no known correlation between the materials and the contract’s “effect”.
Only things known are that People of Land can be revived successfully by using MP and HP regeneration spells together and that contracts written up by high level scribes laying out specific conditions not currently coded into the world will overwrite the related current “rules” in said world. Thus Rudy can be made into an Adventurer.
The only people likely to “leak” the fact Rudy has changed are those People of the Land who knew him beforehand as Wanderer mentions above. While they certainly do exist, relating back above, it’s highly likely that anything will get made of this. The important bit is that a key part of the Elders World game structure (i.e. NPCs versus players) can be overturned (albeit on an individual level) with little more than the signing of a name. Might be more complex for greater changes involving more people, but maybe such a thing can also work in reverse between Elders World and the real world (i.e. explaining how the Adventurers came to “be” in the game)? Now that would be a nice multidimensional mindf*ck.
@baubo: This makes the assumption that the ingredients are what made the contract a success. It is possible that this is not necessary. It is possible that Shiroe could’ve bestowed this in other ways.
It’s possible, but specific ingredients in specified quantities according to a fixed formula is a staple of any RPG game. To make up an example, if creating the Gary Stu Sword requires the Blade of the Lucky Pervert, 2x Scrolls of Awesomeness, and the Fang of the Limerick Speaking Dragon, well, you need those exact ingredients. You can’t use the Claw of the Elusive Hikikomori Dragon instead. A formula is a formula, a recipe a recipe. Works the same way for items, potions and spell scrolls.
All your “spoiler” says is that if Shiroe was going to attempt this, he figured he better use the highest quality magic components given what he was attempting to do. He took an educated guess on what should work and he was right. That doesn’t mean it would work with other ingredients/components or by a different method altogether. The fact that the LN makes a big deal about the rarity of what he used IMO suggests those are necessary items which can not be substituted. I don’t see anything in your “spoiler” which contradicts that conclusion.
“It is possible that Shiroe could’ve bestowed this in other ways. In fact, that would make more sense. He used the contract as a way to bestow adventurer-class, but the innate ability to do so probably lies elsewhere.
Exactly why would it make more sense to do it on other ways? What other way(s) is/are there? Please explain. What “innate” ability? From what I can tell this all boils down to a game mechanics exploit with the end result being the creation of a new magic spell.
(1) You can make binding contracts using magical components; and (2) Only Adventurers can be guild members. Knowing these rules, Shiroe tested the system by making a magical binding contract for an “NPC”/PotL to become a guild member. Since guild members must be Adventurers, the game resolved the conflict by creating an “Adventurer” subclass for the new “NPC”/PotL guild member.
The risk was that the “magic contracts are binding” rule would not trump the “only Adventurers can be guild members” rule. If that happened (i.e. the latter rule prevailed), the contract wouldn’t have worked. That’s probably the reason Shiroe used the rarest, highest quality components in order to ensure the contract was powerful enough to override the other conflicting game mechanics rule.
It’s possible, but specific ingredients in specified quantities according to a fixed formula is a staple of any RPG game.
Except this is not a game. If it were a game. Rudy would die. That’s the entire point of why Shiroe’s experimenting. If you know 2+3=5, it doesn’t mean that’s the only way to get 5. You can do 1+4, 0+5, something else. They’re not in a game anymore.
The fact that the LN makes a big deal about the rarity of what he used IMO suggests those are necessary items which can not be substituted. I don’t see anything in your “spoiler” which contradicts that conclusion.
The LN states things from Shiroe’s perspective. He’s not necessarily right. He makes educated guesses, but they’re still from his perspective. He has, by his own admission, incredibly limited knowledge of the world.
Exactly why would it make more sense to do it on other ways? What other way(s) is/are there? Please explain. What “innate” ability? From what I can tell this all boils down to a game mechanics exploit with the end result being the creation of a new magic spell.
If you sign a contract with someone where you promise to give $100 to that person, does that mean you can create that $100 out of thin air? No. It simply means you already have $100 and you promise to give it to someone. However, even without a contract, you can give someone $100. Having a contract simply binds you to to give that $100. In the real world, this is due to government enforcing contracts. In Elder Tales, it’s the magical property of contracts themselves.
Same thing here. If Shiroe promises Rudy the sub-class of Adventurer, then he must be able to give that ability somehow. Perhaps it’s due to his level, or due to position as the guild master. But he should be able to do it without the contract. After all, how can you guarantee something with a contract when you can’t accomplish the task? If I write you a contract saying I’ll make sure you live forever, no matter how “magical” the contract is, it’s still BS.
However, and this is what Shiroe probably feels, suppose he does have the ability to bestow adventurer status on Landers. But he doesn’t know how. In this case, the contract is perfect. Because it force Shiroe to do something he otherwise doesn’t know how to do.
I admit I don’t remember for sure if this is from the LNs or just something I came up with, but I think Shiroe used the best/rarest/most valuable ingredients he had available because he wanted to make sure that the contract would work. Basically, that there’s a distinct possibility that it could have worked with other materials, but to make sure it would work out he used the best he had.
@baubo: Except this is not a game. If it were a game. Rudy would die… They’re not in a game anymore.
O.o… Disagree. They are in a world heavily intertwined with a RPG game. An evolving game where a very substantial part of the basic game rules and functions still apply. If it is not a game as you suggest, then how do you explain the pop up screens, HP/MP/XP attributes, numerical HP/MP/XP counters, class and subclass levels, class skills – especially physical skills which drain MP rather than stamina as one would expect from physical exertion, monsters turning into… whatever that is (bubbles?) upon death along with dropping coins & items (why would a giant man-eating plant (EP 02) carry money and potions?), and telepathy communication including a friends list.
If it’s not at least partially based on game rules, then there is no reason that Rudy couldn’t have been added to Isuzu’s friends list, or better yet, progressed as an adventurer on his own. It’s the underlying game rules which separate PotL from Adventurers. Take away the game elements and why would Shiroe or any other Adventurer have all those abilities and enhanced physical traits… which perfectly match the ones their characters had when they played the game (including becoming non-human types)? They didn’t have those skills and abilities in RL, and Nyanta certainly wasn’t a feline humanoid in RL.
You state that “If it were a game. Rudy would die”, but if it was NOT a game wouldn’t Adventurers truly die as well? Respawning (resurrecting) automatically in a designated cathedral while suffering a loss of experience points based upon a set formula seems pretty “game like” to me. The list is almost endless. The game mechanics/rules of the world are evolving, not going away entirely. I consider what’s happening akin to an ongoing mod which updates almost daily. Some aspects (“rules”) change, but the underlying base game still remains.
– If you know 2+3=5, it doesn’t mean that’s the only way to get 5. You can do 1+4, 0+5, something else.
How is that even relevant to spells or item creation? To use a RL analogy, while 1+4, 2+3 and 1×5 all = 5, you can’t make stainless steel without a certain percentage of chromium mixed in. You can make other steel alloys such as mangalloy using other additives (e.g. steel + manganese), but it’s not stainless steel. Spells require specific words, actions and/or reagents. There’s a specific formula to follow to obtain a specific result. Always worked that way in RPG games, and as noted above, this world still remains heavily intertwined with an (MMO)RPG game.
– The LN states things from Shiroe’s perspective. He’s not necessarily right. He makes educated guesses, but they’re still from his perspective. He has, by his own admission, incredibly limited knowledge of the world.
So that means he’s automatically wrong in this case? O.o He obtained the result he desired according to his hypothesis. I would think that suggests he’s right more than wrong. Your comment about Shiroe’s perspective is a red herring anyway. The parts I bolded in the spoiler were NOT his perspective, but narration. No perspective involved. That WAS the only bottle of xyz and subsequently created scroll of its kind. If those specific items were not necessary or irreplaceable, then why are they mentioned and in such detail in the first place?
– If you sign a contract with someone where you promise to give $100 to that person, does that mean you can create that $100 out of thin air? No… Same thing here. If Shiroe promises Rudy the sub-class of Adventurer, then he must be able to give that ability somehow.
According your logic, Shiroe could run around and make every NPC/PotL into adventurers at will with no magic items/ingredients/spells required because it’s an innate ability. It’s a magic spell. Just like a magic spell allows Sorcerers to create lava balls out of thin air. However, to do so they must say a specifically worded chant. There’s only one way cast that spell. Shiroe is creating a new magic spell via a written magic contract (e.g. a “scroll”) created from magic ingrediants, not using some “innate ability” as you suggest. From the LN Show Spoiler ▼
– If I write you a contract saying I’ll make sure you live forever, no matter how “magical” the contract is, it’s still BS.
If it really WAS magic, then it would be possible. That’s kind of how magic works – see comment above about creating lava balls out of thin air. Again, it’s a spell – magic in a fantasy setting. No need to look beyond that.
Getting TL:DR as this point. I strongly suspect our views are too divergent to come to an agreement. So if you find the above unconvincing, that’s fine. Agree to disagree.
I see this as use of Scribe skill to make a 90 level contract which require rare ingredients. Restating the facts but the point is just as Cooking needed rare ingredients to do something extra special Scribe would require extra special mats (materials in MMO speak). Wish it had been mentioned but I’m sure it took high level blacksmith mats to make parts of the steam ship.
So far I think this is a real world using physics that resemble game mechanics so that is why expanding efforts past what was possible in game is possible. Maybe the status screens for People of the land and Adventures was added by long forgotten World Faction spell.
Almost said players instead of Adventures but then remembered that would make People the the land NPC which they are not.
Oh from that point of view People of the Land are the real people, Adventures are added in dimi gods.
One point that seems to have been left out so far is whether the conditions for a PotL to become an adventurer have changed or not.
When Shiroe used his contract to give Rudy the subclass adventurer he essentially rewrote the rules of the world. However now that the rules have been changed, anyone who tries to turn an PotL into an adventurer can simply adhere to the new rule and wouldn’t need such powerful magic.
To put it simply:
Shiroe’s spell -> creates new subclass -> changes rules of the world -> world-class magic
New spell -> changes s.o. subclass -> single effect on a single target -> (probably) action-class level magic
Although that is only my theory.
@daikama
I agree with most other things you said, but this is actually wrong. Narration can, and in this case does, include perspective (the term for this focalisation).
The lines you quoted are internaly focalised through Shiroe’s perspective, with some of the keywords/phrases here being “thought”, “know” and “a long time” (the latter because it’s used in a subjective way).
However that does not mean that we have an unreliable narrator here. There are quite a few possibilities I can think of that make Shiroe’s words through, for example the items being the reward for a one-time only event or a high level raid that has only been tackled a handful of times and the particular item has only dropped once from it.
Or he simply created them after the catastrophy and never revealed the recipe to anyone.
@Daikama, @Baubo
The mechanics to create this so called ‘contract’ is a fallacy, and even if it isn’t it is deeply problematic.
@Baubo
Surely, your point that ‘If it were a game. Rudy would die’ is wrong. It is purely because it is a game that he could somehow revive. If it was real life, he would be dead.
Secondly, specific quantities of everything is required for everything. Given your examples of X+Y=5, then it is a matter of 2 variables which could derive a 5. There are a limited number of permutations possible, and therefore, the overall set of solutions is fixed.
@Daikama
The covenant between Rudy and Shiroe (There cannot be a contract as it is void for lack of consideration on the part of Rudy) is problematic in the technical sense. I do understand that Shiroe could covenant with Rudy to provide something that he has, but it is difficult to say that something arises from nothing. The analogy to magic spells is erroneous in that they are created from MP, which is something tangible. X amount of MP is converted into magic; but the same does not apply for the covenant as nothing is converted into anything, nothing is transferred. Nemo dat quod non habet.
It is also particularly confusing that the effect of the covenant is to change the very nature of Rudy. This cannot be done on the part of either Rudy or Shiroe and the natural conclusion is that the governing system of the world somehow enforced the covenant. But we have to take into account that the covenant was between Shiroe and Rudy. The covenant does not purport to bind any third party. It effectively means that the somehow is somehow bound to fulfill an obligation which it was not a party of. Then the question is why the system has to enforce the covenant. The covenant is not precluded from being rendered void ab initio for different factors such as the inability of Shiroe or Rudy to confer the status of adventurer to Rudy in themselves.
The covenant scenario also creates a paradox. Suppose Shiroe used the best ingredients and covenants with Rudy that ‘Rudy shall become an adventurer’ but with an additional clause that ‘Elder Tale shall be shut down and all adventurers shall be logged out as per the system configuration of update XXX’, and that ‘both clauses shall take effect the instant when both Shiroe and Rudy signs the covenant’
Then it would immensely problematic. Could Rudy become an adventurer? Surely he could normally as per the episode, but what about the other clause that Elder Tale would be shut down? If it is shut down and that clause takes effect, then Rudy can’t become an adventurer. But since the covenant binds the system (as per the proposition above), then surely both clauses have to be given effect.
There are predefined rules to everything. The ingredients were made within the context of specific rules, and cannot therefore alter the very rules itself. It defies logic that anything written can surpass the very rules imposed on the world. If Shiroe could convert Rudy into an adventurer, thereby enforcing GM/programmer like capabilities, then Shiroe’s ability is a natural obstacle to a good plot.
Suppose Shiroe covenants with Akatsuki that both players would be conferred 100 billion HP and 100 billion MP, then as per the proposition above (about the system being a third party) the system has to enforce it on both players. This would cause both players to be in a state analogous to ‘god mode’ in certain games. Also, this alteration would surely require less high quality resources than bringing Rudy back to life. If converting Rudy into an adventurer, which is not possible by either Rudy or Shiroe’s ability in themselves, then increasing the HP and MP as per my given example is an easy feat achieved by the system since HP and MP increases are available ordinarily in the game.
If this is the case, then surely killing a boss – an activity commonly done by adventurers – is nothing in comparison with reviving Rudy. All a player has to do is to write up a couple hundred of covenants and go with a friend to the field. Each time they see a boss, all they have to do is sign their covenant and the boss would die by virtue of the enforcement of the covenant by the system.
The above examples are the conclusions that would be possible from the propositions made.
@Zannafar: Interesting theory, and if I understand correctly, makes sense. I really wasn’t focused on the macro side of things (i.e. xyz-class magic), though that’s certainly a relevant line of thought to explore as well.
RE: my narrative comment, IMO that wasn’t Shiroe’s perspective (though I DO agree that narrative certainly can be perspective based). It was narrative by the author, not the character. In this case, the author is pointing out that these are very special, one of kind items. JMO, but that’s how I read it.
In any case, my original and primary point is that I don’t see this as something which will happen again for a long time if ever. Again, JMO, but I see Rudy’s situation as almost certainly unique. I won’t say 100% for sure because with fictional stories like this, you never know.
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@Actus: The covenant between Rudy and Shiroe (There cannot be a contract as it is void for lack of consideration on the part of Rudy)…
O.o? A bit rusty on my contract law, but fairly certain that a covenant is a subset/type of contract (see here and wall of text version here).
As for consideration, IMO there IS “good and valuable consideration” given on Rudy’s part – his services as a member of Log Horizon (Article 2 of Shiroe’s contract states: “Rundelhous will act appropriately and carry out tasks assigned seriously befitting his position as a member of Log Horizon.”) Clearly, given the widely accepted validity of routine employment contracts, rendering services is viewed as proper and sufficient consideration for contracts. As I’m sure you well know, consideration does not have to be money – it just needs to be something of value to which the promisor is not otherwise legally entitled (legalese/wordy version here).
JMO, but I think you’re overanalyzing the situation by trying to strictly apply RL concepts of law to what (IMO) amounts to a creation of a new magic spell. In fact, the contract itself is a type of magic spell – one which uses magic to forcibly bind the parties to adhere to the terms. From the LN Show Spoiler ▼
Even if there was a lack of consideration, then magic makes up for that or even replaces the need for consideration altogether. The series describes summoning spells as a “contract” between the summoner and creature (e.g. phoenix). Where’s the valid consideration for the phoenix? Poor thing gets rudely forced out of its nice warm nest via summoning, and is then compelled to make a kamikaze dive into a bunch of smelly goblins. Certainly lacks quid pro quo from my perspective.
Yes items, and let’s assume from the names and Shiroe’s background and his tone when talking about the contract that they’d be very rare high-level items. And take into consideration the conversation they had a few episodes back when he talked with Henrietta about the magic bag of holding, that ET turning into reality might have made it impossible for new players to get it as a prize from a quest, either from the quest no longer existing or the NPC who gave it not having an ‘unlimited’ supply of it. It doesn’t seem like something anyone can pull off on a daily basis.
A few things are significant here:
It is possible to create new spells.
Such spells may granted effects that is entirely new to the adventurers.
Some people like Krusty has a dark side.
Some people like the princess are startled by the gap between his usual side and this “dark side”.
The Landers have seen to a certain extent the capabilities of the adventurers.
I definitely loved this episode. Like how you said above, it’s not about the end result that matters, it is the journey there. Thanks to the intro foreshadowing or spoiling (depending on your perspective) Rudy’s death and revival, I was blown away at how Shiroe did it. Not because it was out of left field but how much sense it made in the reality they are living in right now. Perhaps, that’s the overall theme of the show. We may or will know where they will end up but it is the small details of how they will end there that is important.
As for Krusty and his little genocidal actions against the goblins, I wonder if Lenessia is afraid of him. I mean, she knows how well Landers would fare against monster but seeing firsthand how a high profile adventurer just slaughter legions of monsters effortlessly must be eyeopening. It would be like medieval folks witnessing nukes being used in warfare.
Now for the wait for my favorite ninja to finally get her glory. She is soooo deserving of being spoiled by Shiroe with all the covert ops she runs for him.
The invention of the steam engine launched many ships this episode!
It was pretty clever episode as well if you read from visuals
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%20-%2020%20-%20Large%2023.jpg
Shabby text? well it was written while riding and in hurry
Oh and the on right is actually man
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%20-%2020%20-%20Large%2026.jpg
seriously ?!! that dancer looking is a guy ??
Oh, they’re female in the world of Elder Tale, they were just male beforehand. It’s another case like Akatsuki’s, except this person didn’t have a change avatar potion.
So the game world avatar is female while the person in the real world is male?
Forget my comment. Already answered below.
Yeap, a severe case of GIRL. Guy In Real Life.
You have to remember real life(and to a lesser extent, the two other MMO plot anime) puts it: female gamers are uncommon.
So if a game has equal number of males and female characters, you have to assume some are playing as female. And this actually happens in Log Horizon as well. I guess Mamare-sensei tried to make Log Horizon mix real life circumstances with High Fantasy settings.
@Tranquin: Oh and the on right is actually man
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%20-%2020%20-%20Large%2026.jpg
IDK about that. 99.99% sure you’re referring to this person who is indeed a LH trap (female character played by male IRL). Character designs are not that similar IMO, and more importantly, why would that person be with DDD – especially and at this time? Doesn’t fit the LH timeline/Arcs.
If you’re suggesting a different person than the one I’m thinking of, then please post (in a spoiler) who that is. Just to be clear, the person I think you’re referring to is Show Spoiler ▼
If you read down in the comments you’ll know the answer to your question, but to state it simply, no. The person in question is this person who has no plot importance whatsoever, having been a former fanfiction character before the author decided to make use of him/her for this.
The dancer is indeed a GIRL/LH trap and is a member of DDD.
Show Spoiler ▼
I will say here how awesome it was that the 2 people standing next to Krusty in the battle against the Goblin General are girls (regardless of who they are in RL). LH have been doing male/female representation quite right by my book.
@Wanderer & aeria: Ah, got it. Thanks for the explanation. My mistake – I had the wrong person in mind after all.
————
@Wanderer:
…who has no plot importance whatsoever, having been a former fanfiction character before the author decided to make use of him/her for this.
Thanks for the link. Didn’t read “DDD Diaries” (stick to the anime and LN on Baka-Tsuki) so no wonder I didn’t recognize her… err… him.
————–
@aeria: Thanks for the info. I definitely know who Rieze is. 😀 (FWIW, I’m up to date with the LN English TL = through volume 06).
@aeria
Is there evidence of any difference in capability due to the gender of an adventurer in the LH world? Akatsuki’s abilities weren’t modified by her gender change, were they?
Lenessia did say something about women being powerless; apparently Lander society makes some sort of distinction between genders. Of course, she has a tremendous amount of “soft power” now, as she’s got scores or hundreds of adventurers as fans, many of whom might be willing to fight for her.
Great I did not think about the fact that Lenessia does have a power base now. At least enough that retribution for Lenessia actions might not be that much from other People of the Land, don’t want to make Crusty angry. But Adventurers probably not interested in the mostly boring duties of occupation troops so Lenessia probably will not try to make herself Queen.
Oh the Raynesia vs Lenessia is probably just translation problem. Similar to the Rind vs Lind arguments for Ah My Goddess fans. I have read that Japanese has a letter/character that sounds half L and half R, listing to it said it does seam half way. So when translating you have to pick ether L or R and L probably chosen more often as it is softer for a girl name.
Even more translation fun Old Norse Verðandi translated to Japanese then translated to English you get Belldandy.
Ah My Goddess spoiler Show Spoiler ▼
@dbm
There isn’t any difference in capability between female and male adventurer, except maybe shorter reach of melee weapon due to difference in height.
As for Lenessia, the Landers are basically still stuck in a male dominated feudal society. “Gender equality” probably sounds as alien to them as say, diesel engine.
That contract scene was the best of this show hands down.
Could you please help me understand what happened?
As you can see, Rudy sigend a contract with Shiroe in order for the latter to become an adventurer. Does it mean that he also became a human (As in, like the adventurers when they go back to the real world) and not just a Land People?
No, he is not a human from Earth, if you mean that.
The world has “solved” the contract point of adventurer by adding/changing Rudy’s SUBclass to Adventurer.
True adventures dont have a class (sorcerer, samurai, etc) or subclass (chef, berserker, script, etc) named “Adventurer”. The world/reality created that specific subclass for a People of the Land to become an “adventurer”.
Nice. Even though since last week, I spoiled myself by reading the LNs, it was still emotional seeing Rudy resurrected. He got knocked down all the way to level 25, but he can now power-level up (relatively speaking). Maybe that’s why he wants to become an Adventurer. =P
Second best scene for me was Isuzu asking Rudy to shake…
By the way, who narrates the previews? I’m bad at recognizing voices.
The preview narrator sounds like Akatsuki
I believe Rudy was Lv 25 before. EXP Bonus is one of the things he got when he became an adventurer, and it was noted before that he leveled much less than all the others in all the time they were grinding in that dungeon.
Also, yes, it’s Katou Emiri (Akatsuki’s seiyuu) who narrates the previews.
Now this is more like it … i having second thoughts before this episode on how shiroe would help rudy … first thought was he’s not a freaking healer
i confess … i don’t have that expectation this episode cause i thought they’re gonna use some kind of deus ex machina out of nowhere just to revive rudy
but lo’ and behold … reagan’s spirit theory + 2 probably high ranking crafting material + LV 90 scribe in shiroe = rule breaker
now this is my kind of badassery … badassery that is concrete and not badassery just out of nowhere (just because the plot needs it)
take that you fucked up rule !!! shiroe can bend you on his whim !!!
-did i hear waltz next episode ??? looks like akatsuki’s dance practice is not for naught
-I’m having second thought showing this episode to my sisters … for sure my eardrums gonna explode at that topless krusty scene
True, in contrast to THAT wish fulfillment show where the hero gets miracles done by using shonen willpower, this here is far more believable.
Hell, the two shows are basically polar opposites at this point. While they share a similar premise, their attitudes towards worldbuilding, character development, internal logic, the game-aspect, romance, maturity of writing and treatment of female characters are completely different.
No bonus points for guessing what I prefer.
THAT show is one of the most missunderstod ones around. It’s actually more mature then this one. The problem is that it took show not tell to a new level and most people doesn’t think far enough to see the depth.
Tips on How to Enjoy your Valentine’s Day Log Horizon Style:
1.Finish an epic Sahuagin wave defense battle, then enjoy the pretty moonlight while fanning your girlfriend who lies down on the beach beside you.
2.Find your boyfriend bathing half-naked, after he had mercilessly slain millions of goblins.
3.Help your boyfriend write down contracts which resurrects him, then proceed to cathedral, hit him up to four times, which eventually turns him into a dog.
Tips on How not to Enjoy your Valentine’s Day Log Horizon Style:
1.Work very hard to ensure your boyfriend’s safety by scouting around the entire area for potential goblins, then end up feeling out of the scene when your boyfriend talks with another girl who is a lot younger than you, however, just as tall as you are.
Should give this guy a “valentine” cookie
Agreed, it is WAY past time for Akatsuki to get back in the spotlight. She’s been out of it since like episode 7 or something like that.
But it sounds like next episode is hers, so yay.
Those last few minutes in the cathedral, made Isuzu become one of my favourite characters of this series. Jaa, o te~
Truly, what an awesome episode! Log Horizon proves yet again you don’t always need battles/action for epicness!
Also, although I knew it would happen, boy was I glad to see Rudy resurrected. It would indeed have been very wrong if that hadn’t happened.
From what I remember from the LNs, there was one significant change: in the LNs, Naotsugu and some other high-level players went to battle goblins while the newbie team was tending to Rudy. While that was probably better thing srategically, I think the anime’s NaotsuguxMarie scene tops that multiple times!
Plus I expect these two ladies will start appearing more often now, given the prominent position they had here.
The one with the curls is probably DDD’s training corps leader Rieze, but who’s the other one?
Rudy avatar ENGAGED!
Congratulations on becoming a Labrador Adventurer!
LabradorGolden Retriever adventurer is best adventurer! \o/The identity of the on that isn’t Rieze got posted above: Show Spoiler ▼
>mfw instant sex change!
😀 I always wonder how it is to be a girl.
Actually if you look at Rudy’s character screen, Shiroe created a “sub-class” called Adventurer that provides Player Character entitlements to the People of the Land.
Rudy can never go to Earth, he is just an Adventurer in sub-class only.
Thanks for your answer.
Then Shiroe will have to find a way to break that rule too, or else Isuzu will have to stay here forever ;_;
@Stilts: Then Shiroe will have to find a way to break that rule too, or else Isuzu will have to stay here forever ;_;
That brings up a topic which I hope the series explores before it ends. Assuming there is a choice, will every Adventurer want to return to RL? I wouldn’t be surprised if a significant number would rather stay in the LH world.
Interestingly (IMO), the current poll topic on Baka-Updates is “Your favorite manga character appears and offers to take you into his/her world in the series, but you can never come back to the real world. Would you accept?
As of the time I post this reply, the poll results are 62.9% “yes” (i.e. they would leave the real world), and 37.1% “No” (i.e. would stay in the real world). I’m a bit surprised by the number of “yes” votes – almost a 2:1 majority.
It’s quite possible that everyone will stay here forever.
It may not as bad as you imagine Stilts. It could be a Yui (SAO) sort of arrangement.
This is pretty much unavoidable. And a Yui arrangement would be sort of a cheat. The key here is that BOTH worlds are viable and full of living, thinking individuals.
Yui’s only issue was how to stay with her ‘parents’ she had no emotional attachment to the game world. The issue in LH is more like a multi-cultural marriage (which I actually have) in that both characters have family, friends, and history in their world and shouldn’t logically just want to leave it.
We haven’t been shown Rudy’s family or past, but he clearly cares about his world since that’s why he wants to be an adventurer. Same with Lenessia. Just going to our world is not a solution. Once they started the cross-world relations in this it made a ‘neat’ solution kind of impossible.
But is he banned really? What separates Rudy from the “actual” Adventurers now besides memories? Unless there is something “else” the real Adventurers have that Rudy doesn’t, there is nothing to distinguish him from them.
Raises an interesting point too, if a Person of the Land can be converted into an Adventurer, what is the chance an Adventurer can be stripped of his abilities and made into a Person of the Land?
That is the Difference between Rudy and normal Players?
the Free Human will. Or Human inspiration. Because Rudy is “inspiration” are Server generated things. It is also Artificial will
But hey, perhaps you will need a better Test then in Bladerunner, to find them out 🙂
What are you talking about? Have you been watching the last 10 episodes of the show? Because literally the ENTIRE point of the plot is that the Landers DO have free will and inspiration, and feelings, and so on. They are not just artificial. Unless they are AIs, which by definition would ALSO mean they have free will and their own thoughts and so on.
This is literally what the entire second half of this show has been about.
Yes your right. But this is 1 more piece of the Secrets of the Apocalypse. The Free Will of the NPC’s and Emotions (or the Illusion in my Eyes)
Why is only Rudy capable of change his Class? Why is he the only one, that broke out of his Daily Life as an NPC and wanted to be a Sorcerer and succeed?
Well, perhaps this Questions are not better to be answered. Because the Magic of this Show would be lost
The People of the Land are already breaking out of their roles. The People duplicated the food tastes good discovery once they found out it was possible. The People are already discussing how to interact and benefit with the Adventures now that Adventures are no longer mindless quest doing creatures like the monsters who one could not talk to without using the interface. I think it quite logical that there are several Rudies across the world trying to become adventures. That kid with his father hunting sure seamed curious about other options than his fate in a medieval society. The lack of change in the People of the Land failing to change before the apocalypse is easy to understand as they were a medieval society where things change very slowly over hundreds of years. Only now with cultural exchange and ability to converse fully is the Adventurers enlightenment and after ideas shocking the People of the Lands medieval society into change.
One thing I love about Log Horizon is this is a study of what if my MMO was actually reality and I live in it.
to those who havent been doing the reading this becomes a plot point entirely a plot point
Show Spoiler ▼
it would be an interesting proposition if Log Horizon is pre-cursor to Maou Yuusha but thats HIGHLY unlikely
now you mention it, but he cant die right? in that game?
no, until he dont lose his NPC “Brain” Database, he has the same rules as the Adventures
Well if the world of Log Horizon is the future of our world after a catastrophe that wiped out our civilization and changed the laws of physics to allow game like function then time travel is the problem. 🙂
CERN probably caused it in this theory. 😉
Even though I kinda knew what was going to happen, I almost teared up with the Magical Girl Rudy contract signing scene. Our favorite golden retriever has grown up. :’D
But yeah Shiroe is like a benevolent devil now:
Shiroe: Power, Wealth, Immortality, all can be yours if you are willing to pay the price.
Random lander: What’s the price?
Shiroe: Eternal servitude.
ROTFL
Also Krusty is somewhat like a psociopath, smiling that Berserker smile of his while cutting down the goblin mobs. XD
I wonder if Issac is the opposite, Impulsive in normal situations, but calm and collective in battle as we’re seen when we saw him clean the Log Horizon base.
And that Souji…might be playing his harem instead of that Shonen character obtuseness he exudes. XP
That ending, poor Akatsuki. Part of the whole romance issues with Shiroe’s harem. 😮
I wonder if Issac is the opposite, Impulsive in normal situations, but calm and collective in battle as we’re seen when we saw him clean the Log Horizon base.
Show Spoiler ▼
This episode re-wrote all the rules in the game. Knowing what we know now, I declare krusty and the princess are free to bop.
“Plus I expect these two ladies will start appearing more often now, given the prominent position they had here.”
lol, the right one is a guy in real life.
http://imgur.com/TKc231n
Which is real life now, I wonder. It’s not a man’s mind in a woman’s body, it’s a human mind in the body of a female, with all the accompanying hormones and biological tendencies that will alter their minds from that of a man’s to their new gender. Horrifying now that I think about it.
Kind of explains why Akatsuki wanted the potion.
Poor Krusty, having to kill so many Goblins and getting so little (if any) xp.
The Berserker washing the blo..I mean rainbow particles off his body.
Setting aside giving NPC’s the subclass adventurer, it was good that Shiroe did what he could to hide what happened. Adventurers being able to create new abilities isn’t something that will stay secret forever, but it has pretty drastic ramifications and isn’t something to be rushed in to.
Imagine having to sign a contract for some reason and being told afterwards “Oh by the way, if you break this contract you will revert to level 1”.
And the expansion has raised the max level of the characters and probably introduced new items that can be used to Scribe stuff.
If Shiroe can do this at Level 90, what can he do at Level 100 with more powerful scribing items?
To be honest, I was a little disappointed at how anti-climatic the goblin invsasion ended, but I was so glad when Shiroe made Rudy an adventurer and what he said about the world being irrational.
Even with the world being like the game, Shiroe displays how the world gives the adventurers almost free reign to do whatever they want as long as they did it themselves and had the necessary resources; sometimes it seemed weird how they were able to do things that normal mmos would never allow and though Log Horizon isn’t perfect, I am amazed at how detailed the world is.
Does anyone know when the OST will be out ?
I couldn’t find the date. I know the OP/ED singles are already released, but I’m looking for the OST. Any info is appreciated, thank you in advance.
The music in this anime really HAVE an impact on my feelings, it really makes the difference for me (not that I wasn’t already in awe at how could someone be so badass wielding just a paper and a pen, but still).
Weirdly enough, I haven’t heard anything about when the OST is going to be released. Please tell me if you ever find out :X
Sure I’ll let you know if I find something, keep us informed as well 🙂
:O
So much epic stuff. I wanted Shiroe in action with his strategic prowess last week, and I got something better – The Bespectacled Devil actually rewriting the rules of this world and succeeded not only in reviving a People of the Land, but also turning him into one of them. Brilliant!
The several things I love about LH is how they focused on certain characters and gave them screentime to shine as well as how they transit from one scene to another without letting the process feel jarring. This obviously gives us viewers all the love for those wanting action (Krusty’s madness), high tension scenes (Shiroe’s race against time) and shipping (MariexNao, RudyxIsuzu, a bit of KrustyxLena). The first two ships are sailing pretty well, though the last one could make for some good material. Lenassia obviously admires Krusty as a man, but his fighting tendencies probably scare her. Would be interesting to see how that develops.
I like how the story contrasts a picture of stark despair in the previous episode with one that takes the viewers on a ride in this one, using a race against time to up the tension then allowing the scenario to end in a glorious happy ending, even if some of us probably knew that Rudy won’t disappear.
And am glad to see focus coming back to Akatsuki. She’s been on the sidelines way too much, doing grunt work and not receiving much attention from her Lord.
P.S: Kanami might actually be one of the hotter female characters here. Pity she isn’t shown much, if at all. :p
Kanami would instantly become the MC and overshadow every other character.
Lots of things going on in this episode as we conclude the The End of the Game arc. On the whole, LH delivers in almost perfunctory fashion as usual. On top of all the action and world changing spells, time was found for some touching romantic moments as well. Good timing with Valentine’s day and all that.
The ending with Isuzu and Rudy in the cathedral was done well IMO. LOL’d at the “paw” comment even though I knew it was coming. I’m glad Rudy survived, but I do feel a bit sorry for him for being treated literally like a dog this time. Not exactly the hero’s reception he deserves (was cute though).
Also nice to get a “short but sweet” Naotsugu and Marie-nee moment. Naotsugu’s one of my favorite characters so happy to see him get some more screen time. IMO that’s one pairing that works very well. Fully on board for shipping those two along with Rudy x Isuzu.
Am I the only one who thought the contract/revival scene lacked tension, particularly a sense of urgency? TBH, I didn’t get that impression while reading the LN. However, while watching that part of the episode, after awhile I started to think “How long are they going to wait until Rudy signs the contract?” The entire scene, from when Rudy opened his eyes to putting pen to paper, lasted 5 minutes (Horrible subs) – considerably longer than the 3 minute time limit per Shiroe’s comment.
There was a lot of “internal dialog” so my issue is NOT that “they went over the 3 minute time limit”, but rather with perception and the order of presentation. My thought is that better urgency/tension would have been created by moving the explanation to after Rudy signs. JMO, and nothing which took away from what I consider on the whole to be a good, entertaining episode. Furthermore, IMO the time spent on the explanation was well warranted as it gave the event credibility. I’d much rather keep the scene’s overall presentation as is than cut that part out.
It did seem a bit pokey, and I was getting ready to bitch about how they went well over the 3 minute time limit, but then again it wouldn’t have had nearly so much “punch” if Rudy signed the thing sight unseen. Honestly I (if I were making the anime) would have probably tweaked the item to zombify the target for 5 minutes to fit it all in, because while Rudy could have just read the thing really quickly (maybe 20 seconds), with Shiroe reading it took up a lot more time. Still, I think it all worked pretty well in the end.
I agree that it wouldn’t work all that well if Rudy just read the thing in 20 seconds (or even just signed it without reading – bad thing to do with contracts). To be clear, I was just suggesting to move some of the explanation that went on during those five minutes to right after it happens while keeping the remainder (emotional reunion type stuff) as is. That alone would probably keep the entire scene with in the 3 minute time limit (or close enough). Even so, as you say, it worked well enough if not ideally.
Long time Reader first time posting, major Stilts fan found him first as a Kyoukaisen fan.
According to post here http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=124585
“Alakshimi the one on the right is a cameo of one of D.D.D members, spawned from the fanfic novels “D.D.D diaries”.
“Many elements from that novel has actually carried over to canon, and looks like we’re adding her to the list.”
To me very is is cool that Mamare Touno actually reads his work’s fan fiction and if he finds something good actually brings it into canon.
The male player of Alakshimi probably is fine with being stuck in a female body as long as the female body is gay 🙂
Shiroe’s just handing off total battle command to come to Minori’s aid hit me as great moment. Although I’m sure Shiroe would have juggled running the battle in flight if Shiro thought only he could handle his job, but Shiro is no one man band and knows who to put in charge, someone probably quite good at it, if needed.
Glad to have you commenting! And as a Kyoukaisen fan. That automatically makes you an awesome person in my book : )
I didn’t know the D.D.D. Dairies were fanfic. (Or that they existed, but hey, moving on.) I respect Touno-sensei more for poaching good stuff from fanfics…many people can create more than one person, and while he wouldn’t necessarily want to cannonize all of it, no reason to not cherry pick the best parts and use them to flesh out his world…if the fanfic writer doesn’t mind, of course ^^
Epic episode (again!)
-the contract: well it fits with the discoveries done before: the cooking system , the steam engine (machines), ship building, now we got the personalized contract.. is pretty obvious anything could be modded that way (armor/weapons, mounts, portals.. so many things they could change)
-Krusty: pretty sure he got a berserker subclass! it shows!
-Isuzu: “Now, give me your paw” haha Rudy still dogzoned! (but now he got a master… lucky dog!)
PS: ok we need more info on that woman that still influences Shiroe .. even if they saw each other years ago!
Seriously glad my friends got me to pick up this series since I was reluctant with how the last MMO to real life anime turned out.
Haven’t (and still resisting) read the LN’s; I wonder if Rudy’s mana not being restored to full will have any other significant ramifications later in the story aside from a the loss of a few levels/exp.
Rudy’s mana wasn’t restored to full in that scene because Shiroe used an Enchanter spell that took mana from everyone in the group and then evened it out across everyone. Since Shiroe was the only one that was full of mana, and everyone else was almost out, when it got evened out there wasn’t enough mana to go around to fill everyone back to full.
tl;dr – Rudy not getting all of his mana back should have no ramifications. That’s just how that spell works.
And yet again, Log Horizon surprises me. Shirou’s plan for resurrecting Rudy was freaking brilliant, in a way. I admit I was kind of skeptical going into this episode, fearing some kind of cheap resolution (because, really, it was pretty obvious Rudy was going to live anyway). But no, Shirou’s solution was completely logical – it was an extension of everything both he and the viewer knew about how powers work in this world so far. He put his own spin to it, and shazam, he saved the poor kid. I also liked how they emphasized that he was standing on the shoulders of giants by doing so – Nyanta’s little discovery way back, coupled with the experimentations of the crafting guilds, were what ultimately enabled him to do this. A clear sign that the writer knows what he’s doing: I love shows were every question can be answered by details revealed beforehand (in that sense this show reminds me of Shin Sekai Yori, of all things) and where the world doesn’t feel like it revolves around our protagonist.
It’s no wonder that he asks them all to keep quiet about it though, because goddamn, this little save could have severe repercussions for the future. After all, becoming an adventurer grants immortality. There’s enough villains for whom attaining that is a goal in and of itself already, and Shirou (or any other scriber) can hand it out just like that. And hell, what if some savvy ruler decides to bribe some player into scribing the little paper in exchange for a bucketload of cash? Adventurers are easily bought like that, and an army of semi-adventurers could crush other kingdoms with ease, if these People of the Land would end up in some massive war. This is stuff that could influence world politics! No idea how much the show will explore that, though the shady mage seems to have realized what Shirou did…
This was the episode of shipteases too, for that matter. Naotsugu and Marielle, Kursty and Lenessia, Rudy and Isuzu…all that’s missing is Shirou and Akatsuki, but that’s probably the subject of next episode. And I also liked everything else. Keep it coming, Log Horizon! Keep being awesome.
Another good episode. Next up should be the epilogue for this arc and probably the intro to the next arc? Or are they going into anime original territory?
Looks like we have time for another arc (book) worth of material. I doubt they’ll go into anime original material, personally.
Well, I gotta warn you that the next arc , LN 5th vol, is kinda fillerish like: more relaxing and comedy hijinks than the previous 4 books except near the end. That’s why some LN readers are debating whether it will be covered this season, but Q&A with God hinted otherwise that it will likely be covered.
Most likely they will adapt till the libra festival.
Even if it is a ‘downtime’ book I sincerely hope they just stick to it. The series is what it is. This way, if they do make a second season when more books release, we don’t have to gloss over weird stuff. We just have a consistent adaptation. And even if we don’t ever get the rest, we still got a great adaptation of the material available, rather than a weird anime-original story like so many animes.
I’d like to view the upcoming arc as a breather arc that showcases all of the worldbuilding thus far. It makes the story feels more solid in my opinion (although plotwise it is still important due to the foreshadowing it provides). So yes I’m definitely waiting for it to be screened.
All that talk about changing reality reminds me of this quote “I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
I like your Rudy avatar Stilts. Was going to go with it when the series started but then I would have felt the annoyance of everyone due to him being not as developed back then.
Hence why I went with Souji instead 😛
Nyahaha, thanks! I wasn’t considering it until he started to get awesome, but that + my preference for blond male avatars (being that I’m a blond male) made him the inevitable choice after this episode :3
let’s make a plot more Disney’s style,, say… Rudy reveal himself a noble prince from the south or such… ran away from the castle since the apocalypse incident… ended up in Akiba and so on.
So, as promised more about Rundel House from me.
You all know, that until now the Adventures where real Human, with their own Mind
But, what exception is now Rundel House? Is it just a modified Byte in his NPC Database? And his Mind is still controlled through the Server? Well, you must known that all NPC work their AI Scripts. And that is controlled through the Server. So Rundel House is a Hybrid. He is still a NPC but with the Adventure Flag. So his NPC Database is intact
Perhaps he will be a Key NPC to make an Alliance with the King and others of the “Round Table”
But there is the Danger, of calling him a Traitor or salvific one
…they arent NPC? they arent controlled by the server.. i think Shiroe make it pretty clear when he said they were people too.
I dont think they arte “in” a game… if anything it looks more like an alternate reality.
Now to Shiore’s “Adventure” speech at the end:
He is damn right. Looks like the Speech Script writer of the Anime hit the right nails
When i was playing my MMO, and the MMO opened for the whole World. I have seen many Players around the World. I even saw some “Kaze” guild, back at my EQ1 Days on a US Server. (If you are by change one of these EQ1 “Kaze” veterans. Hi :))
So, when i began to group with these Peoples, they where not Black, White, Asia, USBoy, Russia or others. They was my “Nakama” right now in my Group. Sure some where Pro players, some where fresh start Newbies and some where complete assholes.
But in this Time, they where standing right next to me, fight the same Mobs. Working for the same Goal. Have Fun together, Die together (!!!TRAIN INC!!!!) and Joy together (When the Raid Boss drops)
Yes. MMO’s put the Geographical Barriers down. They are not the Pity “outsiders”, they are your Group Buddy. Working on your same Dream…
Shiore, you speeches are Awesome. Please continue to surprise an old Veteran like me *bow in respect*
But nowadays, some MMO’s Providers put some IP Geo Banning up. Sure, to protect the Server. But then you raise some barriers back up. Where previous MMO Players forced them down. Let the Players around the World join together.
At last the outsiders should understand the Server Main Language, if not you have then a clear reason to ban him. if he still be a jerk
Btw, now i hope anyone that “hated” me last Episode Comments, saw why i done this. “Shiore it is your time to shine”. it was a big Spoiler for me, so big and dangerous. that i Played the “Aggro Tank” 🙂
Go me ne, Mina-san. I done it for protecting someone
Spamming comments is sure to win the hearts of all…
Yes, i am no fan of Text of Walls. So i diverting it in small Versions, so everyone can enjoy small ones
Accusing someone who hasn’t read the books and doesn’t know what is going to happen of spoiling while sneaking in spoilers yourself by pointing out which lines are supposed to be spoilers…
Yeah, sure, that was done to protect someone.
Well, it is the same as last time. Hidden in the other User Comments, there are Spoilers. but i get the down votes and your attention. How has to grown up?
Too damn anxious… Read about 1/3 of the comments to see if anyone
picked up on it – doesn’t look like it, so here goes (IMHO) —
Shiore did not break / bend any of the rules with regards to Rudy. And this is why
the writing in this show is, again IMHO, at a whole n’other level and is excellent!
What Shiore did was to make more of the rules apply to Rudy! By making him a
bona fide adventurer, Shiore allowed already existing rules of the (game) world
to now apply to Rudy. When he was revived at the Cathedral, and he was looking
at his status, I felt the writers wanted us to pay particular attention to the fact that
there was nothing special about this particular adventurer. Bravo!!!
Second point is about Rudy himself. If we assume that all of the adventurers are
human and will eventually return to their Earthly life, what of Rudy? Is being an
adventurer the same as being real? I don’t have an answer to this philosophical point…
Finally, Shiore’s reading aloud the contract rather than just giving it to Rudy to read for
himself was, I think, the “magical chant” required to cast the spell; so commandingly read!
Threaded in that was the bond shown between Rudy and Isuzu by her showing her
believing and helping him sign the contract [terms of service agreement].
Again, kodos you writers :)!!!!
Yes, he made existing rules apply to Rudy, but he bent the rules in order to do that. And Rudy actually is unique, in that he has the subclass of “Adventurer”, which no true adventurer has (they have subclasses like Cook, Scribe, Tracker, and Housekeeper).
And I don’t think Shiroe had to read the contract aloud. The magic was in the paper. That was just so we’d have a clue what was going on, lol
You see, it all works. Just as they “made” tasty food,
Shiroe made a new sub-class (good catch BTW, I didn’t
realize that Adventurer was unique) and the terms
of service agreement executed by Shiroe and Rudy
was / is the glue that binds it all together. IMHO,
Shiroe, as a lvl 90 scribe, was completely within his
authority to write the document. The key, supported by Shiroe’s
dialogue, was that Rudy had to really want to become an
adventurer and (have) perform(ed) like one.
Which brings me to the plot-hole plug — he died as an adventurer
in combat using a magical artefact. So, while it seems that this
can apply willy-nilly to anyone not wishing to die, I believe
all of those things must be true in order for the transition to
take place successfully. Rudy is the only (so far) NPC that
has applied a practical desire to become an adventurer.
(But I wonder, if Rudy dies in the future, what memories
will he lose?)
@Stilts, It’s not important that I sell you on this idea;
what’s important is that this series has enough thought
behind its writing to bring out these worthwhile points of
view from everyone — An Excellent series!
“Shiore did not break / bend any of the rules with regards to Rudy. And this is why
the writing in this show is, again IMHO, at a whole n’other level and is excellent!
What Shiore did was to make more of the rules apply to Rudy! By making him a
bona fide adventurer, Shiore allowed already existing rules of the (game) world
to now apply to Rudy. When he was revived at the Cathedral, and he was looking
at his status…”
Shiroe did not break any rules, but he did in fact bend the rules. Shiroe and Rudy, in themselves, were unable to render Rudy into an adventurer. Somehow, Shiroe, by virtue of scribbling a few words on a piece of paper and lets Rudy sign on it, causes Rudy to become an adventurer. This is immensely problematic.
Firstly, since the two did not have the power to render Rudy into an adventurer, then the status of adventurer must have been enforced by some third party. The most obvious conclusion to this is that it is enforced by the game system itself. But this cannot be, as the system is a third party to the covenant, and the covenant only prescribed that Shiroe and Rudy would be bound.
Secondly, covenants cannot always be given effect. Person A covenants to to convey land to person B but where person A does not have the adequate title to the land. The covenant cannot be enforced in any way as Person A does not own the land. Therefore, the covenant is void ab initio.
Nemo dat quod non habet.
By analogy, since Shiroe and Rudy do not in themselves have the power to render Rudy into an adventurer, then there is nothing stopping the covenant from being unenforceable. The system arbitrarily enforcing the covenant is thus flawed.
Thirdly, the repercussions of having this plothole is massive. For one, it creates the following paradox:
Suppose Shiroe used the best ingredients and covenants with Rudy that ‘Rudy shall become an adventurer’ but with an additional clause that ‘Elder Tale shall be shut down and all adventurers shall be logged out as per the system configuration of update XXX’, and that ‘both clauses shall take effect the instant when both Shiroe and Rudy signs the covenant’
Could Rudy become an adventurer? Surely he could normally as per the episode, but what about the other clause that Elder Tale would be shut down? If it is shut down and that clause takes effect, then Rudy can’t become an adventurer. But since the covenant binds the system (as per the proposition above), then surely both clauses have to be given effect.
Also, it would create immense problems to furthering the plot.
Suppose Shiroe covenants with Akatsuki that both players would be conferred 100 billion HP and 100 billion MP, then as per the proposition above (about the system being a third party) the system has to enforce it on both players. This would cause both players to be in a state analogous to ‘god mode’ in certain games. Also, this alteration would surely require less high quality resources than bringing Rudy back to life. If converting Rudy into an adventurer, which is not possible by either Rudy or Shiroe’s ability in themselves, then increasing the HP and MP as per my given example is an easy feat achieved by the system since HP and MP increases are available ordinarily in the game.
If this is the case, then surely killing a boss – an activity commonly done by adventurers – is nothing in comparison with reviving Rudy. All a player has to do is to write up a couple hundred of covenants and go with a friend to the field. Each time they see a boss, all they have to do is sign their covenant and the boss would die by virtue of the enforcement of the covenant by the system.
The government does not have to be mentioned in contracts for the government to enforce a contract. Similar to a government enforcing contracts without being mentioned normal way magical contracts are informed in fiction is rather though the power of magic it self or some god.
Yes I know magic enforcing it’s rules has logical problems but it is magic so you sort of have to let that slide unless you get into the the whole story is impossible because magic is impossible territory.
Normally the mats required to kill totally something should exceed the amount of mats given by any mob or mobs. Or the time invested in the making of the scroll also make just going and killing the target is easier. Plus contract magic might not be able to affect third parties, it just effects the rules of the world in limited ways that effect a party to a contract.
There definitely will be limits on what can and can not be done. That is why Shiro was doing all that research. Shiro probably already found out that a double action contract like the back to earth and give adventure status normally causes total failure. (of course using much less major actions).
Giving Rudy adventure status surely is way less mat/energy/level than breaking the game to make oneself in effect a god. Actual effect on the world has to be the measure.
Yes magic had logic plot holes always because it is magic. Only thing I expect is consistence in way applied.
“Yes I know magic enforcing it’s rules has logical problems but it is magic so you sort of have to let that slide unless you get into the the whole story is impossible because magic is impossible territory.”
But the problem is that with that reasoning, all the plot is resorting is deus ex machina. As mentioned, there is no reason why the covenant shall bind both parties. Rather than something this grand like reviving, what about Shiroe covenanting to akatsuki that he shall give her 10 gold. In that situation how will the system react? Will the system make akatsuki’s assets magically disappear and reappear in Shiroe’s inventory? If that is the case, then there are real problems – like the real world. What if the covenant was procured by misrepresentation or mistake or undue influence, or that there is subsequently frustration? In the real world, this would all be dealt with by the law, but would the system have to bind the parties?
“Normally the mats required to kill totally something should exceed the amount of mats given by any mob or mobs.”
I don’t see where this rule came from. Such system altering like converting Rudy into an adventurer cannot in any way be compared with getting loot from mobs. If that is the case, then surely enforcing an action which has already been set by the system would require lower grade materials.
I don’t see a problem if Shiroe covenants with Akatsuki that any ‘any enemy type monster both Akatsuki and Shiroe are engaged in combat with, from time to time, after the covenant is signed by both parties and effective immediately upon the presence of a signature by both parties’ shall have an HP of 0 with the status effect of paralysis, etc. Then it would mean that any materials for the lowest of trash mobs made into the ingredients could kill the highest level monster in the game since the rule was that ‘any enemy monster’ (i.e. lvl 0 mobs to lvl 90) could be killed.
“There definitely will be limits on what can and can not be done. That is why Shiro was doing all that research. Shiro probably already found out that a double action contract like the back to earth and give adventure status normally causes total failure.”
I don’t understand. THe system is clearly a third party in the Shiroe/Rudy situation. It is an independent construct/entity (whatever you call it) that somehow arbitrarily enforces the covenant. This was particularly so in view of the fact that shiroe and Rudy could not ‘in themselves’ render Rudy into an adventurer. The only method of course is to utilise the game system itself.
If that is the case, then there is nothing stopping other actions from being done like conferring upon players 100 billion HP and MP. The game is made of codes in the first place. There is nothing difficult for the system to alter the codes and confer 100 billion HP and MP. This is also a less serious action than converting Rudy into an adventurer. Altering the codes for HP and MP only requires disengaging the limit on HP/MP etc in the codes and inputting a different number. But with changing Rudy into an adventurer, it would require creating speech, dialogue, or coding a totally different artificial intelligence interface.
There is also no evidence that Shiroe had tried any of the suggestions aforementioned. Either way, if this revive could somehow be done and others can’t, then it is just deus ex machina. The plot would be falling to the likes of terrible anime that resort to deus ex.
“Giving Rudy adventure status surely is way less mat/energy/level than breaking the game to make oneself in effect a god”
The notion of ‘god’ cannot be programmed easily into the system, that I recognise even when i wrote the initial reply. But what i am trying to say is different. As shown above regarding the alteration of codes, there is significantly less rule bending required to achieve the goal of conferring 100 billion HP and MP. And it is the result of 100 billion HP and MP that would effectively make that character immensely strong so as to make that character god-like. This 100 billion HP character CAN be killed, unlike god-mode; it will just take an awful lot of time and an awful lot of people to do it.
“Yes magic had logic plot holes always because it is magic. Only thing I expect is consistence in way applied.”
Deus Ex Machina…
Oh I see we discussing different types of systems your assuming changing computer code to do things. I’m assuming a real world of magical physics where this is not a computer game in any way. (It just resembles one) I’m assuming like Shiro that the world is real and if anything this worlds function was mimicked by the computer game. I’m basing my answers on what I have read in other hard fantasies like Piers Anthony where playing with the laws of magic and physics is a common thing. In particular the Apprentice Adept series where you have parallel worlds one magic on advanced technology that end up blending.
So our argument was on different systems entirely. Yes if the world of Log Horizon is running on computer code most of your objections are valid I think unless ran by AI that is dedicated to making sure changes match a rules of magic world not what can be done programing.
This is why I said we dealing with magic and if you press very hard on the logic of stories involving magic you normally can find a hole but then you have to assume yes we are dealing with magic and magic does not have to totally follow logic or it would just be normal physics. (although I find current theories of quantum mechanics sort of wonder into things done by magic like the observer effecting things by their will, maybe I not understanding the theories well enough) I just expect the author to make a good effort to get rid of what plot holes they can see while writing and what a good editor can find.
I just realized the game had no taste at all in it as far as code is concerned and is why produced by game like interfaces food had no real taste. But items did have taste as they were in a real world. So the players found a way to combine ingredients to create many tastes. Imagine the amount of coding required to do this in a game. We don’t even have the total medical knowledge yet to code a taste producing system. (they are getting closer and can do some rough predictions) So the cooking change is actually much greater than the Rudy save in changing the code/rules if this world is code based and the cooking change required no mats or contracts to do at all. Thus I would argue coding changes is not the way to look at the story.
Deus ex machina requires no prior indications that something is possible. In this case we have a lot of the story building up to the situation. I think your using Deus ex machina like many to describe any plot problem. Deus ex machina would be a character we never seen before showing up and save Rudy with no foreshadowing. In example a god coming down from the heavens to reward his bravery like in the original Deus ex machine plays.
I am assuming the magic contract system does have yet to be discovered that would prevent game blowing examples you have stated and from what I have seen from this author there probably is good reasons for it. Your plot holes might be a good evidence that this is a real world not a program.
Your contract killing third party idea or contract doing something to something that is not directly contacted to the person in question is probably no possible in a real magical world. And even in computer programed MMO’s normally one shot desperation items normally take more mats than you gain using them. Yes in computer world or even a magic world a contract might give a buff but not a game breaker buff and probably the buff would be limited by level of character effected. And in a computer game, game breaking tricks are fixed by the programers, so as there no programers in Log Horizon I assume the laws of magic have taken over that role.
Under a magic world setting I would expect each level has a set HP and MP level and a rule just like the one involving Rudy. Changing them would take at least the same mats and requirments as we are in both cases changing a rule. So you could probably grant a higher level maybe a few higher levels with this level of spell but your not going to be able to give someone 10,000 extra levels with a Rudy level spell.
I expect consistency in outcomes Rudy gaining adventure sub class is a nice effect but does not make Rudy able to kill an army. Thus under a magic world function huge HP’s or breaking the game by killing high level bosses with mats equal to or below the level of the boss not possible.
After reading the wall of text in this part, I got a massive headache so forgive me if my respond this is very
messysimple and maybe I overlooked many things.@Actus :
Shiroe did not break any rules, but he did in fact bend the rules. Shiroe and Rudy, in themselves, were unable to render Rudy into an adventurer. Somehow, Shiroe, by virtue of scribbling a few words on a piece of paper and lets Rudy sign on it, causes Rudy to become an adventurer. This is immensely problematic.
Firstly, since the two did not have the power to render Rudy into an adventurer, then the status of adventurer must have been enforced by some third party. The most obvious conclusion to this is that it is enforced by the game system itself. But this cannot be, as the system is a third party to the covenant, and the covenant only prescribed that Shiroe and Rudy would be bound.
I wonder if Log Horizon position as a guild (I do think that it’s a part of the system of the world) has something to do with this. Shiroe sign it as Log Horizon’s representative. The one who provide the necessary to support Rudy (including the adventurer’s title) is Log Horizon. Rudy’s servitude is for Log Horizon, not Shiroe. imo, He signed the contract in behalf of Log Horizon. Maybe his position as guild master also have some parts in it.
In Shiroe’s pov, he was gambling because he didn’t even know if this contract will be accepted by the world. He even think that this kind of contract was a fraud in the novel. He didn’t know to what extent the world will allow adventurers to challenge the existing/known rules, but if it’s possible.. it can happen. Maybe there’s no known/written rule/option that adventurer can invite PotL to join guild when ET is a game, but there’s a possibility to do so after the apocalypse, the rest can be tested/exploited after the first part : inviting Rudy to join Log Horizon is accepted by the system, then bestowed him adventurer subclass. The contract is a perfect weapon to make the “rule” become “known/written”.
I’m interested about your statements in the other post, but replying there is quite pain :
“The analogy to magic spells is erroneous in that they are created from MP, which is something tangible. X amount of MP is converted into magic; but the same does not apply for the covenant as nothing is converted into anything, nothing is transferred”.
The contract were made from magical mats, I think that the magical properties from the mats can provide the “MP” needed for whatever written there. That’s why picking the right mat is important to empower the “spell”. If the clauses written on the paper can be accepted by the world and have enough magical power, the contract will get magical binding properties. I don’t know about the direct magical influence from Shiroe’s scribe level to what he wrote (the clauses of the contract, maybe his level gave some contribution to the success rate of the written “spell”). But if the paper and the ink were made from raw phantasmal materials with high magical affinity, his skill as ‘one-man ink & paper factory’ played the great role to craft the magical mats for this contract, too.
Daikama already replied that in the novel, contract is a type of magic spells.
“There are predefined rules to everything. The ingredients were made within the context of specific rules, and cannot therefore alter the very rules itself. It defies logic that anything written can surpass the very rules imposed on the world. If Shiroe could convert Rudy into an adventurer, thereby enforcing GM/programmer like capabilities, then Shiroe’s ability is a natural obstacle to a good plot.”
I agree about the first sentence, but the specific “rules of the world” become questionable if we connect them with the adventurers. The adventurers have some potentials to alter the existing rule of the world. They can create many things that not yet to be seen in the Serdesea but they don’t know much about the limitation of their discovery, or the real limit of the rule the world after the apocalypse.
My logic is like this : if Michitaka and co. can create steam ship, they must be wanted to try to build more advanced things like a real battleship. but how if their plan get shackled by the world system itself? (level limitation for subclass to craft items. As mentioned above.. building a steam ship is already difficult because it requires many high leveled blacksmith and mechanics plus good quality materials. Maybe to build a battleship, they need lv.200 mechanics? it will be impossible if the max level given by the system is 100 and can’t be changed by any means).
They didn’t know how far they can go before they hit the wall, and there’s no obligation from the world system to grant everything for adventurers’ benefit, too.
Altering HP-MP by contract may be possible but it can’t be happened if the system itself reject it, even if it’s reachable by numerical level or mats.
Another thing is, not only scribes who had a huge potential in magic department. Some other subclasses also shared the same trait if they know how to use their skills creatively. Maybe a sigilmaker can create a new magic if he/she combined some symbols, too. The magical potential of role playing subclasses also seems to be interesting to explore (fortune teller, anyone? XD)
After Re Gan stated his soul theory and watching the discoveries made by the adventurers, I began to wonder about the real nature of Serdesea itself. What is the real rule for that world? How about the limitations?. If the system in Serdesea allowed the contract to be effective, there’s a possibility that it’s a part of the unknown rule of the world, it’s not written anywhere, sitting and collecting dust until Shiroe fulfills the requirements. In the end, it become another discovery but in magical department, same with the steam ship in the technical department.
jmo, The real nature of the world is one of the biggest mystery in LH. That’s why adventurers tried their best to exploit it.
@Actus: As mentioned, there is no reason why the covenant shall bind both parties. Rather than something this grand like reviving, what about Shiroe covenanting to akatsuki that he shall give her 10 gold. In that situation how will the system react? Will the system make akatsuki’s assets magically disappear and reappear in Shiroe’s inventory?
See my reply above about contract vs. covenant, consideration, etc. type issues – especially the “spoiler” part which expressly states that IOUs would, in fact, be binding. That’s the magic part in all of this. Works like a geas (or geis) spell (curse?).
– Materials/Components: Such system altering like converting Rudy into an adventurer cannot in any way be compared with getting loot from mobs. If that is the case, then surely enforcing an action which has already been set by the system would require lower grade materials.
You misunderstand what’s going on here. Via the “food discovery”, Shiroe and the rest learned that you can create things which were NOT already part of the game. Again, Shiroe is creating a new spell here via a “contract scroll” which results in creating a new subclass. The spell scroll “contract” IS a magic item, and magic items require components/materials along with sufficient skill/class level. The more powerful the item (or spell), the higher tier (more rare, powerful) the components need to be. RPG 101 and consistent with the LH world/game.
– Scope of Effect Issues: I don’t see a problem if Shiroe covenants with Akatsuki that any ‘any enemy type monster both Akatsuki and Shiroe are engaged in combat with… shall have an HP of 0 with the status effect of paralysis, etc. … [T]hen there is nothing stopping other actions from being done like conferring upon players 100 billion HP and MP.
The first doesn’t even make sense from a contract law perspective since the enemy monsters are NOT parties to the agreement. I’m surprised you give that example since it contains a much larger and more obvious defect than any potential lack of consideration.
As for the second example, IMO Felice’s comment above gives a very sound reason for why that wouldn’t be possible: game system caps. You can’t “covenant” or contract to give 100 billion HP/MP because that’s a 2,309,848th level spell which requires “universe creation” level components. Obviously, making up the requirements, but I think it clearly illustrates how the LH world game mechanics provide a natural, built-in limitation to prevent such extreme abuses.
Furthermore, there’s almost certainly another one – the game engine itself. Every RPG I’ve played has some sort of hard-coded numerical limitations. In DAO, ability stats have a hard coded limit (IIRC, 150 for each stat) which can NOT be circumvented by mod or using the developer console. The game GUI even plays a role in this. You can’t have 100,000,000,000 HP or MP because the MP/HP counters only allow for “X” number of digits. IMO, 5 digits is a reasonable assumption so in theory you could exploit the situation to give yourself 99,999 MP/HP. However, again see above about needing to be XXXXth level to create that spell in a world where 100th level is the absolute max not to mention whether the spell components required even exist.
TBH, you’re too caught up in trying make what happened, a magic spell, into something which can be analyzed solely from a RL legal perspective. You might as well analyze/criticize summoning spells pursuant to RL immigration law. I didn’t mention this in my previous reply above, but you even go as far as to suggest “The analogy to magic spells is erroneous in that they are created from MP, which is something tangible.” Tangible (including the legal definition of tangible property) refers to something physical, something which may be touched. MP is clearly INtangible. You can’t grab a bunch of MP with your hand. Again, the “contract”, “covenant” or whatever you want to call it is in fact a magic spell, not some mundane legal document.
I’m as big a proponent as anyone who posts on RC regarding in-universe credibility, and posted more than once on such issues where I felt warranted. In complete honesty, what happened here doesn’t create any “WTF”, in-universe credibility issues for me. If less than perfect or ideal, certainly the explanation given strikes me as “good enough” – especially when compared to other series I’ve read/watched which contained IMO far more dubious, “Deus ex Machina” events.
@ RedRocket
I do now realise that we are basing are arguments on different premises. One point that I have is that the latest update (whatever it was called) was originally created by the game developers. If that is the case, then surely magic cannot be viewed as independent of codes etc. In retrospect, I do think that the cooking system is itself a big problem as well. How did the developers artificially render all the players to share the consciousness of their characters and be able to synchronise their senses as well? I suppose that in itself is a big mystery.
I suppose the 100 billion HP and MP may be a bit far fetched. But it was meant to demonstrate that the covenant could confer a ridiculous amount of HP and MP to the characters. As far as I am concerned, there are games out there where GMs have characters in game which have ridiculous amounts of HP and MP and stats that are unachievable by characters even by leveling up. The system, in my perspective, is capable of rendering a character into that state and conferring that character with ridiculous amounts of HP and MP.
@Felice
In regards to the guild point. Maybe. It is possible, but I wouldn’t think it affected the document much in the first place as they were placed as separate clauses with no conditional link.
In regards to the predefined rules point, I would have to elaborate.
What I am referring to as ‘rules’ aren’t the button mashing (e.g. item>fuse items> item fusion successful – esque) rules implanted in the game system. What I am referring to are the ‘laws of nature’ of the game. Everything they create does not bend the ‘laws of nature’ of the game as it has already been provided by virtue of the update.
In regards to the ‘contract’ enforcement point: but if the system has no obligation to enforce the ‘contract’ then why did it have to enforce the ‘contract’ between Shiroe and Rudy? This is particularly so in view of the fact that you mentioned “it can’t be happened if the system itself reject it, even if it’s reachable by numerical level or mats”.
@daikama
I realise my mistake above in regards to covenants/contracts. I was, however, trying to say Shiroe covenants with Rudy ‘by deed’ that Rudy commits to the positive undertaking. Agreements by deed do not fail for lack of consideration. Unfortunately, there is no edit function on RC.
In a way, it may be said that it is a contract for services, but I doubt it. Any such agreement has to have (depending on the jurisdiction) i) the servant works with his own skill in the performance of services for his master, ii) there is sufficient control by the master of the servant, etc. (Ready-Mixed Concrete v Minister of Pensions)
Consideration cannot be too vague or it would not be regarded as valid consideration (White v Bluett).
Regardless, whether by deed or by contract, the result is still the same.
Secondly, you can’t contract with a non-human – mythical beast no less. Merely having a statement stating ‘Contract’ as title does not make it a contract.
“The more powerful the item (or spell), the higher tier (more rare, powerful) the components need to be. RPG 101 and consistent with the LH world/game. ”
You’re reading what I wrote in isolation. I mentioned that regardless of the effects on Rudy, Person A could covenant with Person B that any immediate monster that engages in combat with the 2 would have an HP of 0. This monster could be a level 0 monster. It surely won’t take the rarest of materials to accomplish this.
“The first doesn’t even make sense from a contract law perspective since the enemy monsters are NOT parties to the agreement. I’m surprised you give that example since it contains a much larger and more obvious defect than any potential lack of consideration. ”
You’re reading what I wrote in isolation again. If you trace it back to my original reply of the original comment, you’ll see: “Firstly, since the two did not have the power to render Rudy into an adventurer, then the status of adventurer must have been enforced by some third party. The most obvious conclusion to this is that it is enforced by the game system itself. But this cannot be, as the system is a third party to the covenant, and the covenant only prescribed that Shiroe and Rudy would be bound. ”
In regards to the 100 billion HP/MP point, you’re discrediting the very notion of altering Rudy into an adventurer itself. Using your coding procedure, to change Rudy into an adventurer, it would more or less involve changing the status of Rudy from a lander to an adventurer. This is NOT normally provided for in game with any previous in-game items (firstly putting aside the issue of the deed).
If that is the case, then changing the HP value of a character is possible as it is also changing the status of a character from an HP of XXX to an HP of YYY.
It does not necessarily have to mean that the character’s level corresponds with the HP. I can think of games where I have seen GMs using in-game characters with 100 times the HP of the maximum of normal players. This is evidence that it is possible to convert the value to a certain amount. Surely, you will not argue that the GM is restricted to that amount and that he cannot change the value without destroying the rest of the programme.
There may be some games with a hard cap on numbers, but there is no evidence that Elder Tales is one.
In regards to the tangibility of MP, your analysis is incorrect. Generally,whether something is considered tangible or intangible depends on the context. When it was a computer game it seems, MP is not. But when they are transferred into the game. Although it seems not to be physical, the very notion of MP as explained by Regan shows that it exists and it seems to be floating around. In this sense, it’s properties are similar to that of electricity. If that is the case, then this question is up for moot as whether electricity is regarded as tangible is different in every jurisdiction. Texas and Illinois, for example, as noted in their tax law, regards electricity as tangible.
@Actus :
Ah, about the status hack thing. Maybe you want to check one of the side story later. It’s not the manga. It’s Kanami’s side story (a web novel), and some parts of it become canon in the design of Log Horizon TRPG. Both of the info are available in the author’s website. If the ultimate enemies from both of the medias manage to intertwine with Shiroe’s story.. boy, he definitely needs to know his maximum capabilities in magic. Especially if he believes that he lives in a real world version of Serdesea, complete with real humans with many quirks and dangerous monsters.
Crusty…
Looks like his counteract is Sinbad from Magi. There he is a Yin and Yan Person, too. Egual Light and Darkness one.
Btw, Sinbad is the US (NSA Scandal..) And the Others are China/Russia in Power
See, some real life things, can spice up some Mangas, if used careful of course. To give a touch of realism
and the Goi… Or the Darkness…
Well, it is a State, that life from selling Oil. And Oil is black, like the Goi. Where human life are just money and threaten like slaves.. Yes yes. you sure heard about them. Where Money is nothing to care about…
They even support hidden Dark Forces, to let the world have the need of their oil… (Price play thing)
What, talking to yourself again? What are you, a guy with multiple split personas?
No, he is a asshole, that know all better. just ignore him
Me thinks, that this Lady on the Left. Is the Phonix summoner…
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%20-%2020%20-%20Large%2026.jpg
Well, the Staff has a Red Jewel on his Top…
No, she is Sorcerer while the Phoenix is clearly summoned by a Summoner.
I let out tears of joy when Rudy got resurrected. Damn the feels of this show.
I just noticed this but has Rudy mentioned that he has any NPC friends or family? One thing that i think might tip other people off is if he returns and finds someone who knows him and they discover that he is an adventurer now. If the NPC’s find out about this though i don’t think it would be nearly as bad as other adventurers finding out since they’d hack the hell out of the game given the chance most likely.
There is one additional thing I like about the anime this episode. In the novel Rudie just died normally, but here is more epic with the pillar of light axis. I know it’s just for show, but it could also represents something as well. Rudie ascending to the sky in the pillar of light may signify that “god”, if this world has one, acknowledges Rundie’s status of adventurer through Shiroe’s contract and grant its blessing.
IMO, Shiroe doesn’t make reality bow before his demands, it’s more like god/reality/the world itself accepts Shiroe’s new type of magic, and allows him to alter the workings of the world to some extent which we still don’t know its limitations. In short, Shiroe is an accomplished inventor, not a god.
I think you’re thinking too much about this. In many stories, the whole point of magic is that it can do things that are “impossible”. In other words, all magic is the caster telling reality to shut the hell up and do what it’s told. It’s just that those kinds of impossibilities have become mundane (amusingly enough), whereas this was big and new enough to remind us that they’re bending reality to their will.
As for the pillar of light, all that was there for was to signal how powerful the magic Shiroe just used was, and to give us that knowing Regan scene. In this, as in many things, the simplest answer is usually best.
I love this anime, it is awesome. There have been discussions about whether anyone can return to earth and if this is still a game or real. My opinion is that the Elder Tale world was created at the moment the Apocalypse happened. At that moment the entire world and its inhabitants, both the people of the land and the adventurers were created fully formed. I do not know how the people of lands memories were set but I believe that the adventurers memories are copies of the memories of people from our reality.
Shiroe has a girl he like , i still wondering are they not in the friend list or something ? he haven’t contacted her yet lol Akatsuki better me careful a ninja vs a ronin or samurai girl will be tough battle
If the girl in your mind is the tea party leader, her name is Kanami. In episode 1, her name is appeared in Shiroe’s friend list (written in katakana) and her status is Logged-Off 🙂 . Her seiyuu is Inoue Marina and her name also appeared in the ending credit.
Debauchery Tea Party got disbanded because she left (RL reason). Kanami has her own side story in the author’s website 😀
To further explain on this, Kanami moved to Europe, which is why the Tea Party disbanded.
She also created another Elder tales account on European server, which leads to her side-story.
Not trying to bash a show per se, but one of the first things I thought of when I saw Shiroe literally work his magic was “Even as a side job he’ a better Wizard Barrister than Wizard Barrister.” I also keep thinking how if only SAO had developed its plot and characters the way this show did, which is important because up until a handful of episodes or so, I didn’t truly take this show seriously. I brushed it off as “SAO: lite”. Then the McCrescent burgers happened and I realized how great the show really is. Back to this episode, I like the small teasing of ships, I like the outside-the-box (or sub-menu) applications of skills. I liked how I saw Akatsuki looking like she was going to show off more of her skills….I didn’t like how she didn’t get to show off more of her skills. Just more of the “Ninja, vanish!” she’s been doing. Also (more than) a little sad that I didn’t see a huge raid boss battle. Especially since the next episode looks like a victory ball. Guess I’ll wait and see what happens.
tl;dr – This show’s stock has gone up from back burner show to priority show. Don’t forget the rest of the characters that give this show charm, please.
The best part of the episode is the the Subclass creation magic!
I don’t think Rudy will have anything to do with the real Earth.
He is still an NPC with a new subclass of Adventurer, a subclass is somewhat like an occupation to the People of the Land.
I’m still waiting on some story on why and how the Kinghts of Izumo disappear.
And I wonder if the story will ever reach the point where they explain everything.
Sword Art Online is very straight forward, dot Hack is is poetic and philosophical.
Wonder how Log Horizon will go about it.
To anyone looking to research more on Log Horizon:
http://log-horizon.wikia.com/wiki/Log_Horizon_Wiki
(These thing will usually give the post down votes but I leave this link here for those who want to ‘prepare’ for whats next. Read 30 seconds ahead, lol)
WOW!!! Just realized that the world of Log Horzion works similar to the future of our world in Kyoukaisen!!!
And both have ruined buildings of our civilization lying around, more years of decay in Kyoukaisen
In Kyoukaisen dialog boxes are often opened when using spells, communicating, and yes checking the status of things. People actually have a magic/energy power storage level. In Kyoukaisen these dialog boxes are the product of thousand of years past ours of advanced science combined with advanced magic knowledge and connection to the local Kami (gods) both lessor minor ones who run basic local functions and the greater gods.
And of course Kyoukaisen is short for Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon in english ‘Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere’. And the horizon is a key thought principle in both. (as well as a character name in Kyoykaisen)
This strengthens the theory that the world of Log Horizon is a real world with physics/magic that work like the MMO did.
Also gives strength to theory that Log Horzon is actually in a future maybe parallel or sunken earth. (both worlds have same gravity even though world of Log Horzon is half size)
In these theories the Game was created by transposing knowledge of the world of Log Horizon into the minds of programers of Log Horizon the game.
Wow, you’re right, there certainly are surprisingly many similarities with the settings!
They are still pretty small though IMO.
Although I don’t know how some similarities with a completely unrelated work with a different author strengthens that theory about Log Horizon…
I think Kyoukaisen strengthens the Log Horizon is a real world theory by that fact that Kyoukaisen is a world with dialog boxes that work with magic and a world where techno-magic is possible that is not based on a computer game. Kyoukaisen has reasons for why there are dialog box’s and magic energy pools in people without it being from a game source.
Once I made the Kyoukaisen connection I can recall lots of works with sic-fi pop up dialog boxes to work things including the Avengers and Iron Man. So to me a world with dialog boxes and pop up in air display screens on the status of people and things in the world does not have to be computer game based just somewhat in the future of our time. (Ruins around that indicate our story is in the future) and I recall now other stories now that are magic combined with dialog boxes now like Ichiban Ushiro no Dai Maō (Deamon King Daimao) that I have not till now connected to Log Horizon as some what similar in world function.
Until now I had been thrown by the computer game connection into not thinking about other dialog box techno-magic stories when thinking about Log Horizon.
But now that I have I think that existence of many dialog box techno-magic worlds in fiction shows that a real world with dialog box techno-magic is a good fiction concept and a good explanation for the world of Log Horizon. In this theory the world of Log Horizon influenced our world to make a game similar to a real world perhaps in an effort to fix things and get help.
Now if and Log Horizon players are Kyoukaisen fans as well as engineers maybe we will see at least primitive God’s of War soon in Log Horizon. 😉
After all main problem in our world with giant robots is power source and magic is a good work around. Still Kyoukasien’s toys are the result of hundreds of years of combined technology magic research so I don’t expect any of Kyoukasiens better stuff to show up as Log Horizon players are limited to our worlds tech level 😉
There are certainly similarities, which is a large part of why I like both of them so much : ) I’ve tended to avoid comparing them too often though, because this isn’t nearly as hard to adapt as Kyoukaisen was, and is therefore a lot more accessible to viewers. But that sense of scale, the techno-magic, the big cast, all those OTPs…yup, like two peas in a pod : )
“I wonder what Rudy being an adventurer means for him vis a vis Earth? I still assume they’ll get out of here eventually”.
I think that would be possible. In the very beginning of the manga (so this is NOT a spoiler, the anime just skipped this introduction part for some odd reason) shows Shiroe at home getting ready to log in the game. And he disappears.
So, Log Horizon is not like Sword Art Online or .Hack. In these two, just the mind of the players are stuck inside the game. In Log Horizon the players are really inside the game. Log Horizon is not a virtual world, but a different dimension. At least that’s what the manga shows in the first chapter.
So, if your entire body can enter the game, I believe the opposite can happen too.
@André Interesting… Thanks for that tidbit of Manga info.
Since this is an MMORPG i figured that people would have found this out already. MMO’s consist of basically you, your computer and a headset among a few other things. It was never implied that it was VR to begin with. Plus i’m pretty sure this is based off the LN’s since this show doesn’t have a manga series.
agreed.
you really need to scour the internet haystack more since there’s already several manga’s
covering different characters in the series and all of them are written by the Mamare Touno himself only the artist are different,
there’s one covering the stories of Mariell x Naotsugu and her guild, one about Kirito 2.0(cant remember his name) and his harem and the original series itself, i dont know if
there’s more though, I haven’t search that thorough yet
Those are just spinoffs and side stories though so i never really considered them to be that important honestly. Yeah i guess there is manga so i apologize for making a false statement but the story is based of the LN not the mangas.
More importantly, there actually are scenes in there that do not make sense. At one point Shiroe goes ‘I’ll be back in an hour’, if that flight was possible in one hour then the entire trip to the North would have taken 4 hours, not 4+ days.
Shiroe wasn’t flying from Akiba – he was flying from forward communications base located some 20 minutes of flight away from the coast. The base was set up about halfway between all the important combat areas of the campaign, specifically so he could reach any location needing his attention in case of emergency. Which he did. And he did break all the speed limits in his big damn hero moment.
Getting all the way to Susukino (which is much further) by air was impossible for seweral reasons, including daily time limit of use for flying mounts and areas with lots of aerial mobs that weren’t easy to avoid.
I’m pretty sure that there are plot holes somewhere in the LH, but not here. Mamare-sensei is really good at providing at least somewhat plausible reasons for his characters to do what they do.
Puppygod, I wasn’t talking about this episode, I was talking about the spinoff manga the others were talking about. In THOSE there is an impossible flight distance descripted. Shiroe claims a 1-hour round-trip by flight there, which is a distance that is 1/4 of that to Susukino.
In other words, as I already said, if that flight was actually possible within 1 hour, then by definition the flight distance to Susukino would have been 3 days just to get to Palm.
So yes, there’s no plot holes in the anime. But I wasn’t talking about the anime, I was talking about a manga which directly contradicts the travel times established by the novels+anime.
*wouldn’t have been 3 days just to get to Palm
(Since that would have been ~3 hours of flying instead.)
Really hope Kanami’s story gets animated she’s the best character in Log Horizon universe.
Well I would think she would have to be after all she told Shiroe what to do.
Those are just spinoffs and side stories though so i never really considered them to be that important honestly. Yeah i guess there is manga so i apologize for making a false statement but the story is based of the LN not the mangas.
Judging by the episodes left, Libra Festival can still be covered. It’s only 1 volume, 3 – 5 Episodes..
Show Spoiler ▼
1 episode per chapter would finish the entire volume, but they should fit the Epilogue in as well… So I hope they’ll put a bit more in some episodes, so they got space for the perfect cliffhanger.
In response to your spoiler:
That’s the character development, but the underlying story is really interesting too. It’s not straight forward too.
Surely there is a twist behind this whole contract fiasco. I cannot accept it was that easy for Shiroe to create a sub/class for Ruddy just like that. There are most definitely consequences to breaking the contract that Shiroe has no idea about just yet. Since Shiroe can not die I suspect a lost of memory is the payment. Contracts have been 2 way deals during all the shows I’ve watched.
Hardly easy when you use two super-rare ingredients that might not even be available anymore.
Yes not easy and Shiroe was show spending tons of time researching what could be done with his scribe skill.
Now you might be right Xlimit even if Shiro did put in tons of effort in research and getting the mats needed to do the spell, Shiro did need the aid of Regan and dealing with him might have a price plus Shiro has not ever done this before there might be an extra unexpended price.
Well, Rudy’s memories are stored somewhere in a Database. Humans are not. thats the problem. I dont think a Spell will help here restoring lost memories. Perhaps losing more can be erased
i mean, that all kind of Resurrection Spells, can restore 100% exp back. So no penalty of dead, could be possible. But already lost memories stay lost.. or they remember them when they can go back to the Real World, and other Persons fill the gap
like amnesia
First of all, you’re still treating this like a game, with a Database that can be accessed and contains everything there is. Second, you’re making quite the strange theory there about the memory loss, thinking Resurrection spells can repair the damage. You might recall from Regan’s description that the problem is no perfect reconstruction can be done.
Show Spoiler ▼
You really said it. “First when this was a Game”, “We are living in a Database, woooow”..
Well, this is perhaps the different. i still see this as a Game, but others fallen deeper and living their Lives inside this Game. Losing the sight of their Offline Life..
for me it is a MMO RPG with a Fantasy Setting, for others it is a Fantasy world with MMO RPG Rules
Agreed. Maybe even Rudy will get some consequences, too.
They need to do more research to know the detail about the magic system in the world.
Surely there is a twist behind this whole contract fiasco. I cannot accept it was that easy for Shiroe to create a sub/class for Ruddy just like that.
But it is easy. It is now easy to pull anything out of their asses, given that they have the right ingredients for it. Think about it:
Shortcut revival spells, adventurer->monster scrolls, what Shiroe did removes any limit to what they can possibly do as long as they have enough items that they believe to be the right ingredients for what they are aiming to do.
What’s only limiting them are two things:
1. Everyone in Akiba, except Shiroe, believes that that world is still a game.
2. Shiroe wants to keep the knowledge all to himself, for now.
Shiroe is now basically a God living among common adventurers.
Show Spoiler ▼
I wouldn’t call it easy. It seems so since we didn’t see the trouble he went through to acquire those items. It is a powerful tool to be sure, but if it is a world-class spell, then there are bound to be consequences. The first few times they worked magic on that scale a ostensibly utopian society collapsed, demi-humans were created, and Elder Tale stopped being a game. Who knows effects will ripple if Shiroe did in fact do some upper echelon spell. The very nature of the ‘system abuse’ (for lack of a better term) seems to require a lot of planning, a basic idea of what you want to accomplish, and the determination to go through trial and error until it happens. Shiroe could be God-like or Mephistopheles. It just depends on if the opposing person would want to enter a Faustian bargain with him since his power would rely terms and agreements rendering him fairly useless in direct combat on that front (but not as his main class as we’ve seen). He could become even more powerful if he took up some notary public type/arbiter role where he is responsible for drawing up contracts that are mystically binding in devious ways.
tl;dr – I doubt the process was as easy as the end result seemed to be. Shiroe has the potential to be among the powerful with a few caveats.
well , way better than sword art online for sure
Ep 21: my quick Summary:
in MMO talk:
I begin to see a problem with “GM” Power Players
in Fantasy-world talk:
i begin to see a problem with Humans that regain God alike Powers
and looks like, independent NPC’s are webbing the Spiderweb.
More when the Episode is alive here.
They are raising this Anime into God Wars, if they dont be careful
@Admin:
Logs like the Homepage is very Slow. It take ages to have a reaction. is something not right?
I like the variety you go on about Shiroe becoming an GM and creating house rules.
Well, if this go on. Then perhaps we have here “Little Busters” World, with all the Living Peoples…
Yes, i am thinking ahead, too
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