First Impressions / Hitsugi no Chaika

「狂気の城」 (Kyouki no Shiro)
“The Castle of Madness”

There’s something rotten in the Principality of Hartgen, and it’s everything. The antagonists are compounding.

The Bloodthirsty Kingdom of the Broken King & the Black Chaikas

The Principality of Hartgen stinks in a way no setting in Hitsugi no Chaika has before, and yes, I remember the island they just got off of. That was an island of monsters, but in a somehow comforting way—Evil Scientist #037 acted just as we expected, and the mass-produced fayla, while scary, weren’t as menacing as even the unicorn they fought in episode one of season one. Probably some conservation of ninjutsu (trope!) going on there.

This city, though, is deeply wrong, and all the more unnerving because the monsters are humans. It makes me think there’s some kind of spell in effect that’s making the combatants all so bloodthirsty. A culture of violent disregard for human life has been nurtured in this nation, and it makes me badly want to see the whole thing torched to the ground, or at least smacked upside the head until sense returns. But you can’t punch a nation, so I suggest King Hartgen instead. He and the Black Chaikas—correction there, I guess they’re the black rangers, not purple—need to be deposed stat.

Tooru Pushing Chaika Onward

Is it just me, or is Tooru pushing Chaika into collecting the remains? Chaika doesn’t know what she wants to do, she’s unsure, but Tooru keeps pushing her on. I think part of it is him realizing that they don’t have time to sit around, and that if they’re going to do this thing, they need to do it now before the opportunity is lost, and our Chaika regrets it forever. But maybe there’s more. It seems to me that Tooru might be pushing Chaika forward so much because he doesn’t want to go back to being a listless bum. Being a saboteur is the only thing he’s any good at. Maybe he’s just desperate not to give that up for as long as possible.

Guy’s Rapidly Expanding Evil

Guy has always been the sort of mysterious figure that set off everyone’s this-guy-is-up-to-no-good alarms. Well that klaxon is building to a fever pitch. This episode Guy confirmed what many long knew (thanks to quick screen pausing)—that he saved Gillette’s life. Doing it by mind controlling a bunch of soldiers into shielding Gillette with a mound of corpses doesn’t exactly ring of Good Guy. Nor does saying he saved him because of the hatred in his heart. Nor the fact that the man-formerly-known-as-Gillette now murders people. Nor taking Niva and—oh for the love of the gods, can someone just sucker punch this guy too? Our cup runneth over with antagonists, and Vivi & her crew are the only true good guys hanging around. But since a few of them just got a visit from all the king’s men … yeesh. When it rains, it pours, and right now it’s pouring axes.

Looking Ahead – Saboteur Battles, Battle Royal

It looks like Tooru and Akari’s infiltration is going to run into a road block, and they’re going to participate in the tournament after all. By the way, while I like their attempt to sneak in and steal the remains, wouldn’t it be smarter to just jump the winner and take the remains then? The winner might be weakened or injured from fighting, and at least then they wouldn’t risk tripping across a bunch of other powerful fighters. Say, Team Red Chaika, who are planning to have that Red vs White battle we’ve been waiting for.

Not that I’m complaining. Their way sounds waaaay more fun … for us!

tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – The Principality of Hartgen is rotten, but Guy might be worse. Team Chaika’s cup runneth over with assholes #chaika s2e6

Random thoughts:

  • I liked Akari and Tooru’s diving outfits. And they both show about the same amount of skin, woo! Well, at least Tooru’s shows some skin that Akari’s doesn’t, which I feel is something. At least the woman isn’t all stripperific for no reason, for once.
  • Fredrica ate them, shells and all! I guess that’s one way to boost your armor rating.
  • Wuh oh. Chaika told Fredrica to go nuts. Some people are gunna diiiiiie!
  • Every time Chaika and Niva talk, I just … blink. What strange girls.
  • One thing I didn’t get—I thought they were only allowed to have three fighters in each team? So why did the official ask about Niva, but say nothing about Fredrica? I guess they can technically carry her in, but a dragoon seems something of a stretch for a weapon.
  • One thing you can’t deny is that our Chaika truly cares for Tooru, Akari, and the others. Red Chaika was worried about her spearman, even though he kept telling her to use them to fulfill her goal, but there’s no doubt with our white girl. She’s a good one at heart.

Check out my blog about storytelling and the novel I’m writing at stiltsoutloud.com. The last four posts: Save it for your daydreams, Storytelling is subjective, Delusions of importance, and Only once. For book updates, sign up for my mailing list.

Full-length images: 02, 22.

 

Preview

61 Comments

  2. Things definitely seem to be heading towards critcal mass here as all the various factions are now gathered in one place – Chaika Rangers (:P), Gillette Squad v1.5 and what seems to be the final boss – King Hartgen + Black Chaikas. Got to say, Black Chaikas just scream psychopath to me. Also, throwing this in a spoiler tag though really don’t think it is one Show Spoiler ▼

    — I was excited as well, Frederika, since you had more than two lines of dialog. REALLY hope that Frederika gets some good screen time before this ends, even if it just her going nuts. Wasted character so far IMO.

    — *sigh* You just can’t trust humanoid gundos these days. What’s with the NTR, Guy? Bleh. Liked Chaika & Niva’s interaction, but I guess it wasn’t meant to last. :/

    ——————-

    @ Stilts:

    — “Is it just me, or is Tooru pushing Chaika into collecting the remains?”

    It’s not just you, I had exactly the same thought, and frankly Toru pushing Chaika to collect the remains didn’t go over all that well with me. The way I rationalized it was that maybe the only way to remove the magically programmed need to collect the remains is to do just that – i.e. Chaika won’t find true peace until she gets this over and done with. Then she’ll be free of all this crap. Ties in with the “if we’re gonna do it, it needs to be now” theory you proposed.

    — “Guy’s Rapidly Expanding Evil”

    TBH, for the most part, I filed Guy away as plot convenient Hint Boy.™ Quest stalled? Don’t know where to go? Ask Hint Boy! He has all the answers. Over simplifying of course, but there were times when it did kind of seem that way. That being said, I think it was pretty clear that there was more to Guy than just “OK, go to village Z for the next body part.” Still, I didn’t think he’d turn out to be quite this evil. I figured he was more of a neutral party type. Oops. Guess not. And yeah, Guy needs a good beating.

    — “Nor the fact that the man-formerly-known-as-Gillette now murders people.”

    Gonna be interesting when Vivi meets the new amnesia ridden and murderous Gillette.

    — “… and Vivi & her crew are the only true good guys hanging around.”

    I guess. Frankly I don’t see Vivi & Co. as any more the “good guys” than Team White Chaika or even Team Red Chaika. Frankly, Red or White Chaika >> Vivi for me as protagonists, but JMO.

    — “By the way, while I like their attempt to sneak in and steal the remains, wouldn’t it be smarter to just jump the winner and take the remains then?”

    Oh, the answer to that is simple. You see… Uh, it’s like this… I mean… … … Don’t ask difficult questions (especially if they make a lot of sense). 😛

    daikama
    Reply

    1. Didn’t bother me.

      Action or Depression cycle… Choose action. They could always choose another action later, but sitting around feeling bad for themselves has been shown not to work in their respective pasts. Toru, not being saboteur, Frederika, laying about pining for her lost love. Toru’s sparing Chaika from a lot of self loathing that goes nowhere.

      Drasca
      Reply

      1. @Drasca: So a 14 or so year old girl finds out her entire life as she knew it was a lie, and she’s been magically mind-f**ked to be nothing more than some disposable tool to further the posthumous, no doubt nefarious, plans of a dead, evil emperor which quite likely could bring calamity to the world (not to mention possibly her own death), and the appropriate solution is… do the exact same thing she’s been doing all along? O.o… Really? NO other options – particularly taking appropriate time to THINK through things rather than ignorantly rush forward? Take a week off – haven’t had a vacation in a while. Maybe she can get a job in a nice village magic shop. I’m sure Claudia would welcome Chaika and find a place for her. Perhaps even take up a mentor role. There are a TON of other options available to Chaika now that she knows the truth.

        Chaika could very well come out of this just fine after taking some time to reflect over a week or two. Taking some time off to come to terms after a tragic event does not automatically mean, or result in, “wallowing”. Furthermore, just “doing something” can be nothing more than another way to avoid dealing with the issue head on rather than provide any lasting resolution. Toru, not Chaika, was the one “wallowing” for years. For Toru, continuing might be the right call because he found purpose helping Chaika complete her quest, and that is the issue here. It comes across as Toru selfishly putting his own needs over Chaika’s – not helping her so much as using her for his own personal needs. He’s pushing her into the very thing that’s the root cause of her trauma – being a disposable tool to collect Gaz’s body parts. Oh, I’m sure it will all work out just fine as this is a fictional story and so far not a very grim/dark one at that. However, from an RL standpoint, him pushing Chaika to continue the quest could very well be doing her much more harm than good.

        Actually, your comment, particularly about Frederika, brings up the issue of all the things that the anime cut which is a hell of a lot. Frederika’s character has been simplified immensely. She wasn’t simply “pining about her lost love”. As much as anything else, Frederika posing as Dominaca (who’s entire backstory was left out and other things altered such as the hologram being of Dominica in the anime rather than Dominica’s dead sister per LN) was because Frederica had nothing better to do once the war was over and Dominica died.

        daikama
        Reply

      2. Some points of contention:
        We don’t know Chaika’s age. She looks young but who knows her actual age?
        Her mental state is indeed fragile, but none of the adventurers or known friends are counselors / monks / spiritual guides. Thinking without guidance like this can easily lead to that depression spiral.

        Better to do what you know, than waste time on what you cannot control.

        Claudia would be a good fit, if they were at Claudia’s and had the time to spare. I would love all the time in the world, but I do not have it, nor does this group. They’re on the run, they’re being hunted, and what they seek is being taken from them.

        Frederika’s backstory is indeed more complicated than the anime, but I also abbreviated it. The main point is they’re all happier together doing their little adventure, than alone individually doing… well pretty much nothing.

        Therapy is is about action & support, not inaction. Keeping busy keeps depression at bay, and that’s exactly what’s happening to Chaika.

        Yes, if she weren’t in deep trouble, I’d love for her to stay at Claudia’s winery and just enjoy slice of life antics–and be a happy girl. . . but she doesn’t have that time available.

        Toru’s pushy, but his call for action is correct.

        Drasca
        Reply

      3. You’re right that action is often the best course of action, but it’s also important to take the right action (or not the worst possible action, at least), and sometimes thinking things through for a little bit is completely fine. Just rushing right into it smacks of ulterior motives to me, which makes sense, but doesn’t mean it’s a great idea.

        Stilts
        Reply

      4. @Drasca: “We don’t know Chaika’s age. She looks young but who knows her actual age?

        She’s 14. It’s on the Chaika wiki and IIRC her age was stated somewhere early in the LN and probably manga.

        As for the other parts, I fail to understand how “but none of the adventurers or known friends are counselors / monks / spiritual guides” would not apply to ALL forms of therapy – including “action therapy”. MORE SO when said action, again, is doing the same bloody thing that is the root cause of the problem – being nothing more than a tool for Gaz’s posthumous plan. That strikes me as if someone had severe trauma from watching their friend/relative/loved-one get eaten by a shark while spearfishing, then a few days later someone else “prescribes” – “What you need to do is more spearfishing! Go on right back to the same spot!” It’s “action”, but also “action” which could make the person’s trauma much more severe and deeply rooted (assuming they don’t get eaten by a shark as well). Another analogy is sending a shell shocked soldier right back to the front lines before he (or she) has had sufficient time to fully handle his/her disorder. It’s action – right? But is it really helpful?

        I think you’re missing the point here. Perhaps I’m mistaken, but you seem to make this into a two choices only situation – go collect more body parts or Chaika ends up isolated, completely inactive, and despondent resulting in a depression spiral. I do NOT view the situation that way at all. As Stilts’ posted “…it’s also important to take the right action… [emphasis added] This ties into my point above about a knowledge/experience/profession prerequisite applying to “action therapy” as well “counseling”. Just to be clear, I am NOT, repeat NOT suggestion that “down time” = Chaika left alone in isolation NOR am I suggesting that Chaika just lay around day after day ruminating to herself. There are many other available, viable, and better options other than those two within their control.

        Take a couple days off – take a week off. Have Chaika go shopping with Akari. Go to the beach and relax with the entire group. Go back to Claudia’s if it helps. What’s the priority here? THAT is the issue, because it strike me that Toru’s priority is his own need to maintain his feeling of purpose = continue with the quest rather than what’s best for Chaika. You mention what do they know. OK, they know where the remains are. So what? Because what they do NOT know is what the hell happens when the remains are gathered. Given Gaz’s utter lack of morals when planning for his posthumous plan, I highly doubt it’s something good. What’s the psychological stress on Chaika going to be if by continuing to ignorantly follow – help to fulfill really, Gaz’s plan, and as a direct result of her and the others’ actions, a bunch of people are killed. What if Toru and/or Akari are badly wounded or even killed in the process. Yeah, there’s 0.001% chance given the nature of the series, but the point remains. How much additional stress are you going to put on Chaika in the the rush to this particular “action therapy” before she’s had sufficient time to sort everything out?

        TL:DR the issue is the specific type of “action therapy” “prescribed”, NOT any form of activity, particularly when a myriad of other “actions” are possible, and fully within the control of Chaika and the rest. It still strikes me as simply Toru looking out for his own best interest rather than Chaika’s. Well, that and the plot demands it.

        daikama
        Reply

      5. @Stilts
        I agree with being wary of pushy people due to ulterior motives in general, but taking into consideration Toru specifically I would trust him. Secondly, Toru isn’t rushing. Their plan of castle attack is quite methodical.

        While everyone has motives they’re driven by, I don’t think Toru’s are ulterior due to his upfront personality and past actions taken to that effect. He’s had plenty of temptations to lie, betray or deceive Chaika, and has not (even to the point where deception would be good). i.e. Red Chaika wanted him on her squad excluding White–Toru declined.

        @Daikama
        As an anime only viewer, there’s no evidence of that, and the anime must stand on its own. She could be fourteen, she could be two, she could’ve been ‘born’ the day of the first episode.

        There is only speculation, and I treat the whole 14 year old idea being suspect within the context of the anime. Even if I read a wiki entry, I would be wary–since that is user run, I’d check the source.

        Secondly, this is not an RPG / MMO. The dungeon analogy does not apply.

        @Both
        I disagree with the premise of a singular ‘right’ course of action. That is never true, as there’s for one a multitude of methods dealing with varying situations, and secondly plans must face the test of battle.

        I dislike suggesting the idea there is ‘one true way’, and that ‘action’ is black and white idea set in stone. Good commanders make a series of appropriate responses to ever changing conditions. Note the idea of plural here. It is no one step or singular course of action, but a series of adaptive ones, and within a time constraint. A whole decision analysis cycle comes into play, but a plan of action is better than no plan at all, with the idea you must be willing to throw the old plans out the door for new ones that fit better to the changing situation. Make plans and decisions must do so fairly quickly because appropriate response changes with conditions changing as time passes!

        The same time constraints are true here. Team White will get overrun if they spend too much time in one place with no progress. Team White can also adapt and change plans. . . but too much time spent planning / waiting for the perfect decision can just as well lead to ruin as opportunity passes. They must make decisions in an environment that is time sensitive, because the world changes as they act or don’t act. A hard example in the island arc is when Toru failed to make a decision to stay with Chaika fast enough. He lolligagged on the beach, and when his sister finally convinced him to beg forgiveness, Chaika already left on Frederika. Time passed as he was indecisive. He could’ve chosen to completely leave Chaika too, and that would’ve been valid as a choice for himself and his sister. That didn’t happen, he was indecisive and while he gloomed, the world and Chaika didn’t wait for him. The world won’t wait for Chaika either.

        is anyone going to bet against “Team White”?
        Team Red bets on themselves. So does Guy, Vivi, Hartgen, etc. All the antagonists, really. It is fun to watch.

        Drasca
        Reply

      6. The way I rationalized it was that maybe the only way to remove the magically programmed need to collect the remains is to do just that
        Ok Daikama, where did you get this from? Is it written in the novel or is it just your own wishful thinking?

        vacation…
        OMG what? Ok let poor Snowhitey Chaika rest and be sure all the rest of the world will be hunting her down in a few days. LOL.

        Tooru is just pushing her to the only things Chaika can do now, and the that can secure their staying together: Finish that crap task of collecting the remains.
        I can understand wishful thinking, but plot advancing course of action wise, don’t you think the best way to know the ultimate shocking truth™ is to finish this task and beat last boss? keeping around the bush is just a no-option.

        Solaris
        Reply

      7. @Solaris: First, THE TOPIC UNDER DISCUSSION WAS WHETHER TORU’S “ACTIVITY THERAPY” WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO IN TERMS OF CHAIKA’S MENTAL WELLBEING AT THIS POINT IN TIME. READ THIS CAREFULLY.

        — “Ok Daikama, where did you get this from? Is it written in the novel or is it just your own wishful thinking?

        Ok, Solaris. WTF IT’S CONJECTURE, the same thing YOU did below: “ Once it’s over, byez. Romance is not that strong yet to let them be together forever like in any good fairy tale. (And thank God for that).” Where is that “written in the novel” or “is that your own wishful thinking.” Seriously, “Wishful thinking”? IDK why you would even consider that. LOL I really do NOT care. OK, fine, Toru did it because he didn’t want the party to break up as you posted. Kind of selfish IMO, but whatever. Happy now? >_>

        — “Tooru is just pushing her to the only things Chaika can do now, and the that can secure their staying together: Finish that crap task of collecting the remains.

        BS. Explain to me EXACTLY WHY ONLY CONTINUING THE QUEST will keep them together. According to your logic once the body parts are gathered, they MUST go there separate ways right – because… THEY JUST COULDN’T DECIDE TO STAY TOGETHER BECAUSE THEY LIKE EACH OTHER – NO OTHER REASON NEEDED. You know… like people do in RL. Yeesh.

        — “I can understand wishful thinking, but plot advancing course of action wise, don’t you think the best way to know the ultimate shocking truth™ is to finish this task and beat last boss? keeping around the bush is just a no-option.

        Again, I have NO IDEA why you bring up this wishful thinking bit. See point above about really don’t care. I agreed with what Stilts wrote and I STILL DO. Also, again, see the first line about what the topic was about. Has NOTHING to do with rewriting the story or whatever you’re going for here.

        Finally, as for the unwanted, unnecessary, and unjustified patronizing tone of your posts, see my reply below to your other comment.

        daikama
        Reply

      8. There is difference between analysing, over-analysing and wishful thinking. While the first two are all about thinking what happened and making guesses, wishful thinking is disconnected from that and is about what you wanted to happen. My question above can simply be re-formulated as: “Did you read about it somewhere or are you imagining things?”

        Given what happened no less than 3 episodes ago, when Tooru and Chaika White were arguing whether going to the island or not, the contract was made void for a rant. And the two parted ways. Then the romance (or maybe simple friendshp) worked and Tooru changed mind and came back to Chaika. This episode showed how exactly the only real bond between them is about the mission. Without the mission you cut off a lot of reasons in the trio staying together. Friendship and love are secondary, and this is not a bad thing. It avoids the cliche #1 (let’s win in the name of friendship/love/blah)

        And, by the way: Did you notice how, technically speaking, we’re presented the story from the villains point of view this time? At start Tooru and Akari are two villains that would like to be at war for the only purpose of continue fighting having lost purpose in life without the war. On the other hand Chaikas are tools for destruction, set on reignite the war by the former Demon King. So Tooru and Chaika encounter was fateful, but not really for right and justice. The anomaly is Chaika White having a pure and kind earth, so unlike any other chaikas up now. (and NO, red chaika is was evil like any other Chaika). Gillette team are the good people here, and it’s a pity they had so litte screen time. I expect them to be a more important group in the novel. Then the story progressed from showing two definite factions to mixing up good and bad till you have a grey zone when you see nobody can be considered ‘good anymore’ ending in battle royale where they’re the root of evil is set up for massacre. Here Chaika’s purity can just make the difference.
        And this is told by the story itself and something is just guessed up. Nothing is imagined or based on how I wanted the story to be. You see now what it does mean analysing instead of wishful thinking?

        Solaris
        Reply

      9. @Solaris
        One of the reasons I read RC is that the discourse is relatively courteous, something your replies are obviously lacking. You seem to think you’re the arbiter of what is the difference between analysing, over-analysing and wishful thinking. Fine, don’t read comments you find lacking. Your snark adds nothing to the discussion but to feed your own ego.

        Oh, and your complain about others and then give us a lecture on how to analyze anime with your “analysis” (technically speaking) about who are the villains? LOL. The Chaiika’s are evil? Orphan girls that are kidnapped, brainwashed and put under a geas? White Chaika’s purity? Could just have been random chance that she was the one given that personality. You call than analysis? I can’t even call it wishful thinking.

        Bear
        Reply

      10. Bear it’s not me who’s jumping to the knives, ok? If you people feel attacked like that when someone who question you, just blame your own immaturity. You just don’t know how to discuss.

        For the difference between words such as ‘analisys’ or ‘wishful thinking’, please refer to a vocabulary, like I also do, unless you know exactly what you’re talking about, which doesn’t seem the case here. Thank you.

        For the last part of the comment, that’s up for discussion. Challenge my reasoning.
        Sure you remember how at the end of the last season Blue Chaika questions White Chaika how her personality and modest demeanour could be fabricated and her kindness just another tool to gain people support and use them. This was confirmed by the evil scientist recently.
        So what you say neither is anything new, nor something I forgot when I wrote the comment before. As a matter of fact Chaikas themselves are not evil or good but a mere tool of an evil plan.
        What I said above is that Chaika’s group started his story from an antagonist point of view, given the introduction of the main trio. Is it not true?
        White Chaika acts on her program or what you want to call it, but fabricated or not she’s actually pure, even compared to her own allies. Her desire is to earnestly give his father a proper burial. If you just take a look at how the story progressed this far, now anybody can be considered ‘good’ any more. Not even Gillette or his own squad. The only one is White Chaika, and I bet that’s will be the key for the conflict resolution. Or are you just telling me that that feeling is not true just because it’s fabricated?

        Solaris
        Reply

      11. @Solaris
        So now your claiming it’s not you who’s at fault? Questioning someone is one thing but the tone of your comments is at the level of High School taunting. Obviously you can’t seem to grasp a basic level of civility in discussion and any more attempts at dialog with you are pointless.

        Bear
        Reply

      12. Bear, now the rude one is you. What’s with this childlike attitude? “I won’t speak with you who’s a baddie”. Are you also crying now? Please, spare us. Damn me, I found myself in another kindergarten.

        Listen: You’re willingly continuing an off topic flame. I thought you were here to contribute the discussion which isn’t, so enough with that.

        Solaris
        Reply

    1. Well to be fair they have only 4 episodes until end and they have 4 volumes more to cover.
      First season was 1 volume per 2 episodes. But season 2 had 3 original episodes and only 2 that covered next volume ( volume 7 ).
      So they have to fit volume 8, 9, 10 and 11 in episodes 7, 8, 9 and 10.
      It’s no wonder they really have to rush it now.

      Brother Coa
      Reply

  7. I’m counting on Vivi to save Gilette. Her fortune said her unchanging love would save her loved one. She can do it… although the way that’s phrased makes me wonder if she’ll survive the attempt. 🙁

    Wanderer
    Reply

  8. Tooru Pushing Chaika Onward
    It’s just cause the hunt for remains is the only true bond they really share. Once it’s over, byez. Romance is not that strong yet to let them be together forever like in any good fairy tale. (And thank God for that)

    Looking Ahead – Saboteur Battles, Battle Royal
    Never liked when deadmatch tournament pop up like that. It looks always to me just like a lame attempt to close side stories when you don’t know how to advance them anymore and thin up the character rooster the easy way… but surely I’m thinking to mutch about this. I just hope it will be entertaining enough.

    Also, I have the feeling that the last boss will be twintailed this time… and it will NOT be Tail Reddo!

    Solaris
    Reply

  9. Akari *puts octopus on Toru’s head*: Brother, you look more manly with this on you.

    Their diving outfits looked so cool here. Plus finally I’m glad Toru finally gets to show some skin! Even if its just the upper arms, strategic placement counts.

    SDFGS
    Reply

  10. Right, I’m gonna call it: Guy IS Gaz, or at least a younger clone of himself, or perhaps even holding the original Gaz’s soul, not unlike Emperor Palpatine in the Dark Empire comic series.

    Like all the Chaikas and Niva, Guy must also be programmed to carry out Gaz’s planned resurrection, though Guy would be the coordinator of all the Chaikas.

    How convenient for Gillette to lose his memories. Still, at least this Gillette doesn’t take shit from anyone, promptly killing those two bickering contestants with no questions asked.
    https://randomc.net/image/Hitsugi%20no%20Chaika/Hitsugi%20no%20Chaika%20Avenging%20Battle%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2018.jpg

    echykr
    Reply

  11. I don’t think jumping the winner would be that smart of a plan, actually. It leaves things way too much to chance, as there’s no way to predict who the winner will be. Maybe it’ll be Red Chaika, or the Vivi team, or maybe someone else brought a freaking Dragoon. They’d still be screwed then. And I don’t trust what the king (& Black Chaikas) or Guy are up to either during the tournament, so waiting till its over would put them at a disadvantage. Better to throw yourselves in and just find out how things are from the inside then (or try to steal it, but that won’t work if the preview is any indication).

    Also, like one of the above posters, it wouldn’t surprise me either if Guy has part of Gaz inside of him. Makes me wonder what he needs Niva for though, unless she can do more fancy transformations than just turning into a gun.

    Dvalinn
    Reply

    1. I still don’t see it. Why fight so many people when you can fight just one? Though admittedly, if their plan is to lurk around and try to take out the would-be winner at the last second (when they’re liable to be weak from fighting), that’d be smart. I still favor garroting them in their sleep myself, though.

      I mean, stealing the remains when they’re asleep. *whistles*

      Stilts
      Reply

      3. Good ole King Hartgen has zero ulterior motives whatsoever! Toru’s the one that should be distrusted. . . for reasons. /satire

        . . .

        NOT!

        In full agreement with Solaris here. He has captured my intent with far fewer words. I am jealous.

        Even if he has zero plans for the remains (cough cough), I seriously doubt the same is true for the Chaikas and tournament winners. The whole thing smells of a trap from top to bottom. You don’t fight fair in that case.

        Drasca
        Reply

  12. Note that the entire tournament could have been set up as a trap for remaining Chaikas, and either with intention to kill them or turn BLACK.
    The King definitely has his hidden agenda, but it seems Guy(s) might have a different one. No one knows how many factions operate in this complicated battlefield…
    If I had to guess it seems Guy(s) are messengers of deceased Gaz Emperor, making sure his plan goes , well, “just as planned”! They are manipulating all the factions into converging into one place, and bringing all the remains together. Then, with aid of Lada Niva, whatever the dead chessmaster has planned is going to unfold. My 2 possible takes is that either he is planning to resurrect himself, or just take revenge on the whole world by throwing it again into chaos and war…

    ewok40k
    Reply

    2. I don’t think those Chaika’s are corrupted.
      If my memory from Light Novel serves me well Show Spoiler ▼

      Stilts edit: Spoiler tags. Use them please.

      Brother Coa
      Reply

  14. Why would they wait for their tournament when they could have the artifact now, and with a much more secure method of doing so?

    The path of least resistance is certainly not fighting the tournament, with no guarantees the artifact will actually be rewarded either.

    Drasca
    Reply

    1. @Drasca: “Why would they wait for their tournament when they could have the artifact now, and with a much more secure method of doing so?”

      I don’t get this – the last part especially. How is it a “much more secure method” when they have to find the thing presumably hidden away and locked up in a vault somewhere deep inside a fortified castle with guards (surely he’s not the only one around) plus Hartgen & Black Chaikas who seem to be the final boss? I highly doubt Hartgen would just stand around and let Toru & Co. steal the remains prior to the tournament end.

      — “The path of least resistance is certainly not fighting the tournament, with no guarantees the artifact will actually be rewarded either.”

      OK, so it’s not given as a reward. Back to square one which is what you’re proposing. What’s the downside here? However, if it is given as promised (which I’ve seen nothing to indicate it won’t), then IMO certainly less risky to ambush the winners after they have left the castle, possibly wounded. Even if they are fine, at least you have a better idea of precisely where it is, you don’t have to deal with Hartgen + Black Chaikas + a bunch of castle guards, and you can pick the ambush location to your tactical advantage. Some winding road through a heavily forested area and such. Have to agree with Stilts on this. At least wait and see if it’s given to the winners, and if so, take it from them. That to me seems to be the “path of least resistance”.

      daikama
      Reply

      1. I highly doubt Hartgen would just stand around and let Toru & Co. steal the remains prior to the tournament end.
        Of course he’d resist, but I bet on Team White.

        They have control over assaulting a keep and stealing from the vault. They’ve done so many times before. The most epic of which were that flying fortress at the end of season 1, and last episode’s attack on the hidden magic island.

        They do not have control over the current owner, and have no relationship with him.

        Trust what you know and have power over, or trust what you do not. I’d pick the former just about every time.

        What’s the downside here?
        Capture, Wasted time (biggest one), Betrayal, Death. I am not referring to the other tournament contenders, I am referring to Hartgen and forces outside the province. If you think beyond the immediate threat, you’ll understand why wasted time is the biggest issue– because things happen and larger forces move while you breath.

        The current biggest antagonist has Chaika’s newfound Gundo friend. Opportunities are lost as time passes. You’re paying a cost with every second you spend.

        Drasca
        Reply

      3. @Drasca: “They have control over assaulting a keep and stealing from the vault. They’ve done so many times before. The most epic of which were that flying fortress at the end of season 1, and last episode’s attack on the hidden magic island. They do not have control over the current owner, and have no relationship with him. Trust what you know and have power over, or trust what you do not. I’d pick the former just about every time.”

        To use an analogy, just because you successfully raided a 20th level dungeon or even 30th level dungeon, doesn’t mean you will automatically succeed when it comes to a 50th or 60th level dungeon. There’s no question that this is a significant step up in challenge. At least I hope so. It should be at this point in the story. Also, did they even do any meaningful recon work other than “‘The Locator!’ It’s deep within the castle.” O.o Yeah… I could have guessed that much on my own. In addition, even with their previous successes, they needed some unexpected help along the way (e.g. Gillette Team in flying fortress). Not exactly smooth sailing on that one. And don’t forget Deus Ex Frederika. She’s not part of the infiltration team this time around.

        The biggest and IMO critical “what they do NOT know” is the question on everyone’s mind – WTF happens when the remains are gathered. I would think understanding that is of paramount importance at this stage of the game. May very well be a good idea NOT to keep gathering the remains. What’s truly important here? Completing the quest “because it’s what we’ve been doing all along”, or the consequences of doing so? Rushing ahead without any idea of WTF might happen is a bad idea IMO. And that certainly qualifies as “thinking beyond the immediate threat”. There will be another chance to grab Hartgen’s remain(s) later on one way or another, and it’s NOT for certain said later chance will be more difficult. I highly doubt Toru & Co. would lose track of Hartgen’s remains. OTOH, I doubt they will get a “do over” once the remains are gathered. Gaz has this whole thing very well planned.

        As for control, true – all they have is control over the their own actions which is a constant. It’s the same control or “power” as if they were to ambush someone. No, I’d say more control/power with an ambush since they can pick the spot of attack to their own advantage as I mentioned before. They could even scout ahead and lay traps or something. I fail to see how it’s easier to attack a fortified defensive position that’s been in place for who knows how long vs. an unexpected ambush attack at the place of their own choosing.

        As I read your reply, essentially your primary argument comes down to time. They have to act now because they don’t know what might happen later. True, but see above about how they don’t know what will happen by rushing ahead rather than figuring out Gaz’s plan, etc.

        One more thing to keep in mind about potential time issues. Obtaining these remains isn’t the end of it. There’s something else in “Team White’s” control – the remains in their possession. You have to get all of the remains together. Regardless of whether they get Hartgen’s particular remain(s) or not, Guy/Niva, Red Chaika, etc. are ALL going to go after “Team White” for the remains they already have. Even if they do get Hartgen’s remains they STILL have to get the remains from Red Chaika (assuming Red Chaika has all the rest). Frankly, best plan of all is let Red Chaika win the tournament/steal Hartgen’s remains, then go steal/take “Team Red’s” remains. Much more efficient that way.

        — …but I bet on Team White.

        Well, yeah. Given the nature/tone of this series, is anyone going to bet against “Team White”?

        daikama
        Reply

      5. @Solaris: “So the point of this whole wall of text is that White team should go for ambush strategy because you (and only you) said it’s better?”

        A MUCH BETTER QUESTION is WTF is the point of your reply post? Only me? TRY READING THE REVIEW CAREFULLY –

        …while I like their attempt to sneak in and steal the remains, wouldn’t it be smarter to just jump the winner and take the remains then? The winner might be weakened or injured from fighting, and at least then they wouldn’t risk tripping across a bunch of other powerful fighters. Say, Team Red Chaika, who are planning to have that Red vs White battle we’ve been waiting for.

        So YOU ARE WRONG – it is NOT just me. But it sure is interesting that you wrote it that way – including the extra emphasis in parentheses. Combined with your above comment, this strikes me as nothing short of PERSONAL.

        First, for you to make some snide remark about a “wall of text” given some of your previous VERY long posts on RC, more than one MUCH LONGER than this, is the ultimate, quintessential definition of hypocrisy.

        Second, as above, I agreed with Stilts in my primary post above because I thought he had a good point. Drasca disagreed with that opinion, and then we posted the reasons for our differing opinions. That’s it. End of story. A similar type of analytical/tactical discussion occurred for Argevollen’s “Flare Plan” back in Season 1 which a LOT of people, including myself, thought was WTF stupid, and some (plural) posting what they (plural) thought was a better idea. How the hell you extrapolate what I posted, again, into “wishful thinking” is beyond me. It’s the tactical analysis I find interesting. And I don’t need the BS “Go tell the author about it. Good luck.” comment.

        If my reply seems a bit harsh, well, you crossed a line. Had you simply posted “I think Drasca is right” with or without reasons, no problem. If you didn’t find the topic under discussion interesting, then you could JUST IGNORE IT, the same others did and I have done for many posts, including, yes, some of your own. If a post is “TL:DR” for you, again, you can just ignore it, as many others here do and I do myself at times.

        But you didn’t, and frankly I really don’t know why you felt compelled to respond as you did. I enjoy posting on RC from time to time, and I sincerely hope we can move on from here. If you disagree with my opinion, fine – but do not make it personal. You are entitled your opinion exactly the same as I or anyone else.

        daikama
        Reply

      6. TL;DR (again)
        Long story short, I’m just getting tired with you posting all of that bullshit. At least all the other people (Stilts included) are just posting their own rationale in this thread, unlike you.

        Is it really so hard to separate what you want this story to be (=wishful thinking) from what the story tells you to be (=analysis) ? Or are you simply not able to? I didn’t understand this yet, but still it’s like I care so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        Solaris
        Reply

  18. What bothers me about those black Chaikas, is that neither of them have the super thick blushies with fifty shiny spots. And they don’t talk weird like Red and White Chaika. They’re probably like Layla in that regard, seeing as they don’t use Chaika as their names either.

    Crook
    Reply

    1. After knowing how the Chaikas came to be I guess that the spell they used to modify the memories and body could have many different effects depending of the subject. Just look at Vivi, she was an assasin type of Chaika but it could be safe to say that the spell work out as spected on her so the transformation was delayed so she might have been a failure but was rescued before she could be dispose of. Now that I think about it, what tyoe of Chaika the black Twins are? So far:

      1.-White Chaika: Wizard
      2.-Red Chaika: Warrior
      3.-Blue Chaika: Pharmacologist
      4.-Yellow Chaika (Vivi): Assassin

      Just what in the world is the field of expertise of the twins?.

      haseo0408
      Reply

  19. This crazy tournament might give us the oportunity to see what we all have been waiting for since the end of season one: Toru the Dragoon Chevalier!. On the other I have to say that After much thinking I don´t belive Toru and his group are bad guys here, yes they´re collecting the remains and yes Toru did say that he cares little about peace but let´s a deep look in that world: this so called “peace” is a lie, The Six Nation Alliance cares only for their interests and the only reason they destroy the Gaz Empire was to steal they magic technology, Arthur Gar might have not been an angel but sure as hell his people didn´t deserve what was done to them; now it´s world without a purpose like Toru and the goverment are way too lazy or corrupt to care for those who lost everything in that war. So are Toru and Gillette on the right for resenting this false world? I belive they are, and gathering the remains might gve Chaika and all the others some answers to why everything ended the way it did.

    haseo0408
    Reply

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