“Danger Past, Forgotten Past”
Nanaki Explained – God’s Will!:
Kudos to Mayoiga for going against everyone’s exceptions and just being utterly ridiculous until the bitter end. I’m not going to get too deep into another discussion as to whether the creators of Mayoiga know exactly what they’re doing here (and I think they absolutely do). Instead, I’ll just focus on how absurd this episode was. I’ve probably labeled every episode as ridiculous or crazy or bizarre, but this was a whole other level of madness. And, surprise, surprise, I loved it. Where to begin? So… Mitsumune wakes up in a hospital and is met by his dad, who is all emotional over him leaving – even the mother is grief-stricken that she’s “killed” another son. Any sane father would insist that his fifteen year old son come home straight away, but of course this is Mayoiga, so he instead sheds manly tears and lets his child make more terrible decisions because… because! But what’s most amusing about all this is the person who saved Mitsumune last week. It’s someone I don’t know any of us would have guessed: Yottsun! Remember him? The guy who went missing after sneaking off with Masaki before floating face down in the river. Yeah, he’s alive… which means that not a single character has died. Truly, we are not getting the show we expected from Mayoiga, but I love being constantly surprised, even with only two episodes left and far too many characters to properly keep up with.
This episode also marks the point where things start to make sense – not a logical way, but making sense by way of silly attempts at exposition. As it turns out, there is a definitely a big smoke monster surrounding Nanaki village, and we’re introduced to God, who has experience with the supernatural spirit. From what I understand, the monster shows the traumas of one past and if they are “removed” from the person then they become less of who they are, which in the case of “God” resulted in him aging rapidly over three years. There’s very little attempt in making this sound reasonable, but that’s just how I wanted it. We also got to meet Reiji, who seems to be living by himself not too far away, and his cold attitude sends Maimai into a rage that I couldn’t help but smirk over. We also get a glimpse of Lion’s past, but it remains unclear whether she can actually see ghosts or not as her mother gave the impression the whole thing was a hoax to make money, but there’s a chance Lion actually can see dead people. And then there’s the ever sensible Nanko who is still squeezing her belly fat and trying to figure out this madness. Good luck to her.
The final minutes of this episode were just as entertaining as the rest, as we see that Jack and Judgeness are actually working together under their “Boss”. I never called this sort of alliance, especially when it appeared those two genuinely hated each other – though that still looks to be the case here. We end with the big reveal that Koharun is actually the boss in question, which raises several questions. Does that mean she’s evil? Is she going to go on a murderous rampage? Or will the show end without a single character death? Whatever happens, I’m confident I’ll have a blast. Not only that, Lovepon was uncharacteristically silent this week, but I’m sure we can take a guess what she’s thinking about.
Overview – What’s Next?:
Rapid aging. Smoke monster. Stupid parents. Tragically silly backstories. It’s all God’s will! This episode was one absurd revelation after another, and I couldn’t have asked for anything more. Because of Mayoiga’s sheer unpredictability I have no idea what’s going to happen in the two remaining episodes, and that excites me. That likely scares or irritates many of you, as it appears I’m one of the few who genuinely enjoys what Mayoiga is doing and can’t wait to find out what lies ahead.
I’m 100% pumped for the next episode. Just how the heck will they end this piece of madness lol
Mayoiga is the shit
Mayoiga is brilliant!
I’m not faulting you for thinking that way, but that you’re immediately writting everything off as mad nonsense is getting annoying. Like Mayoiga is not the most intelligent show, but this episode is pretty straightforward and most things made sense.
It was obvious that Yotssun would be revealed as alive and that he had to return in some way. This isn’t a murder or survival show. No one died so far and both Jack and the other guy returned and we know that the monster can create illusions. Or that Koharun was not as innocent as she seemed. She was the most obvious suspect after Masaki and Mikage questioned her filmsy alibi. It was also obvious that there was some sort of monster that causes the trauma to appear. Like most figured that out five episodes earlier. And if there is a supernatural monster that can manifest trauma, why shouldn’t it be able to make those who have lost the trauma age? It’s a supernatural monster.
Humans are defined both by positive and by negative experiences and getting rid of negative experiences, trying to just escape from them will result in apathay and and a lack of stress. Which does result in aging faster, a shorter life and other negative things. Psychp Pass elaborated that very well.
This show can be taken seriously, at least most of the time. And you insisting that it’s not meant to be taken seriously and that if you do you’re watching it wrong is quite pretentious.
Like last week I still don’t get how me genuinely liking this show for what I think it is can be seen as pretentious. I cannot take 90% of what the show offers seriously and I have confidence in the staff behind this that they aren’t going for a completely serious story. Sure, some backstories have more substance to them, but the whole thing is still a glorious mess and I’ve had a blast watching/reviewing it. Sorry if that comes across pretentious, I’m just simply having fun.
This wasn’t not about how you enjoy the show. But rather that you say your way is the only one and that people taking this show serious are wrong. That is quite pretentious. There are people who are taking this show as serious as any other show and are enjoying it as well. And their way is as valid as yours.
The reason I say that is because the people who are taking this show seriously almost unanimously view it negatively. Just a quick browse of MAL or forum discussions find that a lot of viewers really hate it. I just think those people are missing the point. If you are taking it seriously and enjoying it then that’s great, but I think you’re an even smaller minority than those who are just having fun with it and not getting annoyed by Mayoiga’s own dumbness.
Akor, if you’re referring to Samu’s statement last week “if you’re taking any of this seriously, you’re watching it wrong”, then you have to keep in mind that he’s not talking about everyone watching this show. He’s specifically talking to the people who are taking this show too seriously and complaining about it not living up to their standards. There’s nothing wrong with watching a show and taking it seriously, or watching a show just to laugh at it. But to watch a show of a certain genre and treating it as if it were a different genre and then actually trash-talking it because of that, that is the problem, and that’s what alot of people are doing with Mayoiga.
But if you happen to have missed people’s negativity towards this show or disregard other people’s opinions and comments, and just focus on Samu’s “if you’re taking any of this seriously, you’re watching it wrong” sentence with no context, of course it might sound pretentious. Just thought I’d enlighten that point.
Watch for the entertainment value, if you don’t like the content or whatever, drop the show. Given the sheer number of generic anime shows that follow the same formula that are produced every year, looking for some kind of deep meaning to some shows is pretty pointless.
But discussing and debating stuff is always fun.
@Samu you dont know that , seriously , you dont know that the showrunners are aiming for it to be this way and maybe (just maybe ) they messed up and it is simply bad and looking at the premise and the plot outline it seems likely so
@JayDrink “But to watch a show of a certain genre and treating it as if it were a different genre and then actually trash-talking it because of that, that is the problem” yeah , because a drama-psychological horror-fantasy-thriller-mystery show is not the genre to be taken seriously and thus all criticism is wrong , we should be watching it with the same state of mind as watching Outbreak company
@Lyfe Well that is the point , this meaningless show is just bad like the other generic trash out there , the problem is that some think that this show failing to have any meaning or sense of logic makes it a good show
I can’t speak for everyone here, but once this show is finished, I won’t give it a second thought. It hasn’t hooked me as a fan, but has me wondering just how it’ll end. The theory of them being dead was an interesting one, but as that seems unlikely now, I don’t know.
The fact that a lot of viewers really hating Mayoiga should be really telling. I don’t think that means they’re watching it wrong or are missing the point. They could just dislike it because objectively it’s not a very good show.
Just like, subjectively, you enjoy it and can find what people dislike about it entertaining. That’s fine, but I don’t think that should be considered some sort of failing on the part of the viewer. That might be why that would be perceived as pretentious.
@Bamboo Blade Cat
Many shows I consider good or even great are low on MAL and other sites. While it is a quick and easy way to judge whether a show is good or not to those unaware, I think the reason why this, and many other worthwhile shows, are so low is because they don’t appeal to the mainstream anime fan demographic. It’s easy to see why shows like Re:Zero, Kabaneri, and Boku no Hero Academia are ranked so high, while shows like Mayoiga, Kuromukuro, Shounen Maid, and Joker Game have way lower scores.
People are perfectly entitled to think Mayoiga is a terrible show, but until the show proves otherwise, I’ll maintain the point of view that there’s more than meets the eye here, and that lots of anime fans aren’t used to this sort of show and mistake it for being plain bad when there’s more to enjoy once you looks past the obvious idiocy of it all. If that makes me pretentious then I’m fine with that. I have my own point of view that gives the show as much credit as I think it is worth and I’m likely to stick with that until the end.
Mass appeal definitely does not translate to a good show. But some shows are objectively bad, mass appeal or no, and vice versa.
Joker Game is a good example. I couldn’t get into the show, but I recognize it’s a fairly well done and high quality show, regardless of appeal or the fact I didn’t like it. The problem with saying or thinking Mayoiga is a good show, is that it’s now put next to shows like Joker Game or Erased or Death Parade (which tackles a similar theme, making peace with your past) et al., and one cannot say the level of quality is remotely the same. Though is that what you’re saying, that this show is as good as those and others?
Saying there’s more to it than meets the eye is fine, but saying anime fans aren’t used to this sort of show is sort of insulting to anime fans. I tend to rag on anime fans when appropriate, like when it comes to being socially aware, but this show really isn’t out of the ordinary. I watch plenty of tv (probably way too much of it), and Mayoiga isn’t that much different than some of the middling shows that are out there.
You seem to be making it out to be more than it really is, whether intentionally or not, and that’s fine, but implying that having the opposite thought is some sort of mistake comes off as rather myopic.
We’re obviously not going to agree here. I’d easily put Mayoiga as one of the top 5/10 shows of the season, for example, based on enjoyment alone.
You may think I give the show much credit, but I believe the majority give it too little. It’s an endless roundabout.
And that’s fine, but I’m not sure if you’re just conflating enjoyment with quality. I mean, do you think this show is as good, quality wise, as the others we’ve mentioned (Joker Game, Erased, et al)?
When it comes to ranking shows or movies or books beside one another when they are completely different genres/demographics/styles of storytelling you have to take what you’re comparing into consideration. K-On! and Mushishi can be your two favourite anime, heck someone could say K-On! is better than Mushishi in their opinion and that’s fine. Or Non Non Biyori and Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Or The Tatami Galaxy and Clannad. Once you weigh each series and judge it by its own merits it’s easier to rank them alongside one another and not get bogged down by what is the more “quality” show.
Judging Mayoiga by its own merits – its strong direction, hilarious characters, and my confidence that it is intentionally the way it is, I would currently rank it higher than Erased, which totally lost itself in the last few episodes. But I would also rank Joker Game above both of them.
What you’re describing is subjective/personal assessment. A show like Mushi-shi is objectively better than a show like Clannad, no matter how much you enjoy either (can’t comment on K-On! as I haven’t seen it). I’m not sue why you’re continuing to conflate the two (subjective vs objective), but I’m strictly talking about objective assessment and appraisal.
It also ignores the fact that some genre works can not really be elevated beyond a certain quality because of its current limitations – those placed upon it by the audience or creator (that’s more a chicken or egg scenario, that is, which is dictating those limitations?).
Books would be a great example where no matter how good a Young Adult novel could be for instance, it can’t be compared to a great work of non-fiction, as it just doesn’t possess the same level of complexity or nuance. There are always exceptions, as maybe down the line, an author could write a truly great YA novel that transcends the genre, which could be compared in that same light as some masterpieces, but as of now, that doesn’t yet exist.
I like to point to how comics are evolving where the writing has evolved to such an extent where it has to be taken more seriously more than it has in the past.
I think if you’re comparing two shows that have very similar storylines/characters/etc and you’re trying to decide which executes those similar ideas better then that’s a fair argument for viewing things objectively. But over time I’ve learned that objectivity is overrated, or often disguised as subjectivity. You can say that Mushishi is objectively better than Clannad (and subjectively I agree with you), but we – the consumers – aren’t machines who rate everything by exact metrics and checkpoints. If you tried hard enough anyone could make the case that X is objectively better than Y. Stories are just stories, and when I view something as good or bad it’s almost entirely subjective.
Every post I write here is subjective, which should be obvious. I don’t want to seem like I’m here preaching my opinions as facts – I’m just giving my honest perspective. There are key plot points that can be highlighted objectively, but to make a sweeping judgement of a show by saying that it is objectively better than another isn’t something I try to do anymore. To me, that’s just an attempt to hide your subjective ideas of what better suits your tastes and labelling it as objectivity.
As for YA novels not being able to surpass the complexity of a great novel/non-fiction, I disagree as well. There’s no handbook on what objectively makes the best book, as the people who write and read those stories are fickle and biased and will never able to agree on why one thing is 100% better than another. I think any measurement of which is better than the other is going to be inherently subjective. And I think attempts to seek for absolute objectivity when discussing/reviewing something is pointless, because it doesn’t exist.
Samu /// There is no well developed way of measuring the quality of a show objectively, therefore every assessment of them is ultimately subjective.
This is a frequently addressed argument from those who claim “It’s a matter of taste, after all”
But I kinda disagree. At least, the argument(and the claim) above is missing a very crucial fact.
Let’s suppose a thought experiment.
We have a time machine and visit China in the 10th century, and succeed to persuade many literate-fiction-lover Chinese to assess some works of Shakespeare vs some works of a really bad reputation (or some works of a completely hobbyist novelist).
Which one would you bet will get a favorable assessment from them?
I don’t doubt that you’d think Shakespeare’s works have a better chance against them by a complete amateur writer.
Yes. Even if the ancient Chinese literate fiction-lovers tend to favor, appraise more the former than the latter, those are still ‘subjective’ assessment.
But It is OBJECTIVE that Shakespeare’s works will have a definitely better chance in getting favorite collective subjective assessments.
The same holds for assessment of beauties, the quality of music, play of musical instrument (for example, You can do a similar thought experiment with Bach’s music vs a complete amateur composer’s work of a bad reputation) and many others, for which there is not well developed clear-cut way of measuring quality of works).
Then what about Mayoiga?
Obecitively, this show has no good chance for getting collective favorite assessment.
Objectivity is overrated? Once you start to believe that, you can no longer assign value to anything, since if everything is subjective, it all becomes meaningless. What’s the point of criticism or reviews then if everything is subjective, when an opinion with no credibility weighs the same as one with credibility? That’s why such an idea is unsustainable. There has to be some sort of guide or authoritative measure that is adhered to (that gets reassessed every so often). That’s why works of art get re-evaluated and are seen in new perspectives long after the prevailing view points have died out and more objective view points can be established once views are realigned if and when necessary.
As a reviewer, you should have the freedom to say that you think something is better than something else because of whatever detailed reasons you have, and not feel it’s a way to hide your subjective ideas. You’re a reviewer for a reason, and it’s because you’ve shown you can articulate ideas better than others, that you have a great interest for the subject at hand, and that you keep your personal biases to a minimum overall. If you truly feel the ideas are subjective, don’t include it, or make a note of it to the readers, there’s nothing wrong with that. The very act of reviewing is a judgement, so no need to make it seem like that’s not what that is. That’s the point in making critiques. Trying to play nice and not offend makes one a less a honest reviewer because it holds one back from making harsh judgments and commentary.
And while there is no handbook of what objectively makes the best book, one cannot place the Hunger Games (for example) in the same company as the Sun Also Rises, 100 Years of Solitude, The Brothers Karamazov, etc. It’s just not on the same level. The people who write and read these books aren’t meant to judge the quality, thats why you have critics and reviewers. And you’re being a bit willfully ignorant to think anyone is striving for absolute objectivity. You rely on having a large enough number of critics/reviewers in hopes to filter out enough of the subjectivities one carries with them into a review, so you come as close to an objective viewpoint as one can come.
Question : is Comet Lucifer being bad a subjective view or an objective one ??
As I remarked somewhere else in the comments, I thought Comet Lucifer failed at bringing anything new to the table, and felt like a genuinely bad show as a result. From what I watched I thought it was bad, subjectively so.
Let me play Devil’s Advocate for a moment. How can you claim Comet Lucifer was genuinely bad if there is no such thing as objectivity when reviewing a show? You thought it was subjectively bad, but that’s not the same as claiming it as being a genuinely bad show. Going by your own logic (and others) nothing can really be genuinely bad if all tastes are subjective. That’s why it’s an untenable position to claim, as you can no longer make statements that imply a sense of certainty or generality.
Things I view as objective include: episode count, genre, demographic, and any other measurable metrics. I think it’s fair to say that Comet Lucifer is a bad show if you want to compare it to other mecha shows with similar plots, but my opinion of it is still mostly subjective. As I said, I don’t put much thought into my opinion of something being “objective” anymore. You mentioned objective standards that reviews should stick to or apply in their own way, and I agree with that idea and do it myself… but I view those standards as subjective based on a person’s feelings/taste/experience. I honestly don’t think we disagree too much here, but instead draw the line at a different place when it comes to what is subjective and what is objective when reviewing.
Here’s a nice example of an entirely objective review I’ve been linked to before when the Best of Anime 2015 post came out: https://www.destructoid.com/100-objective-review-final-fantasy-xiii-179178.phtml
I think every review/impressions post has levels of objectivity and subjectivity depending on what you choose to write about. I just try and make it clear that what I write is my opinion, and my standards are not entirely objective but are a result of my own taste/expectations.
Btw that objective review, while trying to be satirical in nature, is really just a technical summary.
Anywhow, I mostly agree with what you’re saying, but if we’re comparing Mayoiga to other like minded shows, and anime doesn’t seem to have many shows like it (but that shouldn’t make it good by that measure because there aren’t too many shows on like it), it’d be much easier to compare it to live-action shows, like Lost, Twin Peaks, Wayward Pines, The Stand, Under the Dome, maybe BSG, etc, and stacked up against those shows, it doesn’t measure up too well, and at best, would be considered very middling at this point.
I actually thought Death Parade is a good comparison since it’s about people coming to terms with their past and they end up acting out before doing so (it is a really good show), and Death Parade, a rather unconventional anime (MAL 8.36), is a masterpiece in comparison to Mayoiga.
Plus, you’re making the dangerous mistake of claiming all opinions have the same weight, regardless of how educated or informed they are, which is just not so, and therein lies the problem. I’d trust an Art History major’s opinion about art more than a casual viewer with little formal understanding because not only do they have a passion for the subject, they understand certain technical merits more and can articulate those details. Sure there may be some really talented and intelligent casual viewer with a better grasp on the subject, but the odds of that quite frankly are really really low (the law of averages and all that), though when you hear it, you’ll most certainly know it.
And it’s no different when it comes to writing, film, tv/anime, etc. Which is why certain works can and will never be comparable to your Shakespeares or Homers, your Kubricks, your Goddards, your Hou Hsiao Hsiens. So we can make an assessment about this show that doesn’t come off as biased in the way you imagine it to be. And if you can’t understand why some work or genres will never measure up, and this is where I’ll sound pretentious, then you have a real lack of understanding of the principles and fundamentals of art and its various mediums (and I really don’t think this is the case judging from other reviews of yours I’ve read).
Anyhow, I just feel like you’re being a little willfully ignorant about the nature of criticism, simply because you don’t want to admit Mayoiga is a genuinely bad show even if you don’t think so (which is why I think this is more of an emotional reaction instead of a logical one). That’s ok, but I think now some commenters are going to hold you to this rather obtuse stance you’re unwilling to waver from. And it’s sort of sad, cause other far better shows deserved this level of debate.
Yeah, this whole subjective/objective debate has escalated way further than I anticipated and is becoming way more than just discussing Mayoiga. Hopefully this will be my last reply on the matter.
At the end of it all: I’m confident in my interpretation of Mayoiga and I wouldn’t compare it with such classics to begin with. I think it’s a B+ show at best right now. I don’t think it’s anything groundbreaking, but I do think it’s better than many seem to believe. I’m having a blast watching it and have enjoyed talking about it for the past 10 weeks. I still don’t agree that it’s an objectively bad anime, but you’re welcome to disagree, as the majority seem to share your opinion. I just think it’s actually pretty good and have tried to explain that over the weeks. It seems some people are also getting enjoyment out of it, which I like to see. Others don’t, but no anime will ever please everyone. The world keeps on spinning.
I’ve never been one to take tv/anime grades seriously, but I don’t see how you can say that you wouldn’t compare it with such classics to begin with, but still give it a B+, that’s seems crazy inconsistent. Now unless you mean a B+ on its own scale, that’s another thing.
I also don’t see how you can even say you don’t think it’s “objectively bad” as a result of your previous reasoning of why objectivity doesn’t really exist, and that everything’s entirely subjective therefore “anyone could make the case that X is objectively better than Y”, nor does your acknowledgement of classics make sense if you claimed the current crop of YA novels could be as good as a masterpiece. it’s highly contradictory.
Now perhaps you didn’t mean that as literally, but your argument certainly made it seem that way.
But hey, if this is a hill you want to die on, be my guest.
I won’t get into the details of how I rank what I watch, but a part of it is whether I think a show delivers on what it’s capable of, and I think it lands around B+ here, which I’d call “Very Good”. That could change in the next two weeks depending on how things go. We’ll see.
As for everything else… I just don’t have the energy to continue this any longer. I never intended on defending Mayoiga like this, which is why I tried to avoid talking about it much in the actual post. I just… really like it, am entertained, andit never fails to give me some good laughs every week. As such, my reviews have been consistently positive. Sorry if you think they aren’t up to scratch for this show, but to be fair I’ve never covered something quite like Mayoiga before, so my approach is different. I’m not too interested in cracking every plot point and finding coherency in all this mess – I’m just documenting what absurd things are happening and how I feel it’s not as unintentional as many people think.
Now… hopefully half the cast gets killed next week so we’ll have something else to talk about.
Regardless, thanks for continuing to engage, most reviewers wouldn’t have bothered.
And like you said, it’s way more than about Mayoiga, and like I said, I just wish it was about a different show, since this is a significant discussion that can be worth the time for the most part.
Samu is definitely reading way too much into why people don’t like the series, because its “sheer unpredictability…That likely scares or irritates many of you”, as opposed to people simply not liking it because it’s not working for them (cause it couldn’t be that). I just find it a really bizarre conclusion to come to.
Irritates implies not liking it. I was acknowledging those viewers as well as those who don’t like the fact Mayoiga doesn’t play by conventional anime rules.
“Irritates implies not liking it.” I’m not sure where I said otherwise. My point was people could just be irritated at the bad writing or exploitative nature of the writing, and not by the unpredictability of it as you’re insisting.
Or are you saying you also acknowledged that reasoning as well? If so, that wasn’t exactly clear.
I’m just saying I tried to cover all bases with that final point, as there appears to be varies level/shades of dislike for Mayoiga.
I would like to ask in what way Mayoiga doesn’t play by conventional anime-rules. I find the biggest flaw of Mayoiga to be, that it adheres to hard to otaku-culture standards and cliches.
You also have to consider that writing this anime consisted out of around 6 people sitting in weekly meetings and throwing ideas around. This was a team-effort of people with almost no experience in suspense writing and it shows.
That reminds me of how Heroes was written. Tim Kring would have teams of writers write each arc separately from each other without knowing how the other arcs were written, and then they’d somehow have to weave them together towards the end, which explains why the show ended up the way it did.
Yottsun appears and instantly becomes everyone’s favourite character! The whole conversation on the rooftop just made me laugh at the sillyness of the 29 who had no clue what was going on, and Yottsun’s all “Monster? Oh that one, yeah it’s super annoying.. whatevs.”
My thoughts on Reiji-kun – Rather than Masaki’s feelings being one-sided, I think that he may just have experienced what everyone in Nanaki Village is currently going through, the whole “meh, who cares anymore” attitude. It’s like Nanaki is sucking everything out of them, their emotions, their wants, their motivation to do anything.. Reiji has simply been living there for such a long time that everything’s already been sucked out of him. That’s why he said that Masaki’s feelings are one-sided: he currently feels nothing inside because of Nanaki so when he was asked about Masaki, he didn’t even bother to explain or put it nicely. He just stated the truth, he feels nothing (i.e. her love is one-sided) which obviously upset Maimai.
If anything, I couldn’t help but feel like Reiji-kun was screaming on the inside, wanting someone to help him. I’m sure he wants to go back to how he was, but can’t even begin to work towards that goal because of how empty he is on the inside (thank you, Nanaki). I was just hoping for Nanko to realize what was going on and explain to Maimai why Reiji was being such a dick, but I don’t know.. if she didn’t see it, maybe I’m way off base.
I think the only reason Kamiyama aged is because he didn’t accept and overcome his trauma, he just cut it off. And, with your trauma being a part of you doing that aged him. Things may be crazy, but they do make some kind of sense.
Why..I thought I hate it, but I still watch it nonetheless..
Welp, so much for the everyone is dead theory. 2 more episodes left, will the final train wreck be a glorious EXPLOOOOSION or will Mayoiga go out with a flaccid whimper?
Maybe after facing their inner selves, they’ll all get Personas!. Persona 6: Nanaki Village edition 😉
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I wonder how people would react if they announced a second season after the final episode and didn’t wrap anything up? Just a thought..
Well, thankyou for the insightful response.
I keep thinking the only thing missing from the show is a laugh track.
About Lion, what I gathered was that she can see dead people, but her mom was using it to sell charms. The charms were a scam.
So far it’s the Comet Lucifer of this year. -_-
If you believe Mayoiga was aiming to be anything great and failed, then sure, I suppose that’s a fair comparison. But where Comet Lucifer failed at every oppertunity to make something memorable, Mayoiga is actually pretty well directed, has good staff behind it, and is relishing in playing by its own rules. They’re quite different imo.
I think the unpredictability of the show is a plus. So many anime shows these days follow the same formula, it’s nice to have one where the studio can pull seemingly random stuff out of nowhere and roll with it. Sure, it doesn’t make much sense at times, but it’s entertaining to see it play out.
in a way mayoiga can be a candidate for this year exceeded expectation award hhaha
Yes, I had high expectations before it started and the first episodes were not great, but promising. But after this episode, I lost hope.
Don’t get me wrong – it’s still better than Comet Lucifer but by now it equals my disappointment.
But Comet Lucifer was so boring. At least this is entertaining!
Yeah, to the point where I wish was stoned while watching this 😀
Anybody else reminded of Urashima Taro with that suddenly aging researcher?
This was a little all over the place. Though the beginning with Mitsumune’s dad was good, and was pretty decently written.
And everyone calling out Mikage was great, though hilarious how everyone turned on a dime to realize he needed to chill.
Mikage slowly becoming unhinged was a decent escalation, as opposed to abrupt.
The stuff with the professor was a little too exposition-y.
Thought there’d be more to the Reiji story, as it still comes off as vague, but that’s what the show’s been doing in general.
I’m not too sure if the stuff with Koharun, seems tough to make it pay off with two episodes left.
I really enjoyed this episode. There’s some good stuff going on and I can’t wait to see how it ends
This show… Y’know what? I don’t even care anymore. This show is just so fucking dumb and stupid. It’s a total clusterfuck!
I, I don’t even know what to say anymore. I just knew that Koharun was one mad crazy muthafucker from the way the camera shots and framing throughout the episodes.
And like I’ve said, we don’t know what the authorial intent behind this show is, and I don’t know what kind of super drug the show makers have been injecting into themselves for a while now but…
If there’s anything to take away from it all, let’s just say that the authors behind the show have a point about accepting that the traumas a part of you and I can concur that from an academic/semi-professional standpoint but nevertheless, I’ll consider this show to be a PRIME EXAMPLE of how not to fucking write one.
Aaaaanyywaaaayysss, in the meantime I’d probably drown myself in mah vidya gaems to maek up fer lost time watching this show. Yeah, I should definitely do that.
Also the sheer unpredictability and “Holy WTF!?”-ness of this series is exactly what I experienced with Samurai Flamenco. Everything in that show blew my fucking mind after each episode beginning from episode 7; there was just simply no end to the kehraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyzzyyyy ideas that were being pulled out from their buttholes just to go beyond the line of duty- of being ‘serviceable’.
Bah whatever! I think I’mma just go
jack offto Koharun or something just to ease off the stress of watching this extraordinary clusterfuck.
No wait Nishi, NO! What the hell do you think you’re doing? If you do that, you’ll succumb to the madness and be just like the rest of these insane motherfuckers! Don’t Nishi! DO WHAT’S GOOD FOR YOU! YOU KNOW IT IN YOUR HEART! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sound more messed up than what you think Mayoiga is 😛
Yeap, I have completely ‘lost’ it! 😀
i said few episodes earlier that the village brings out the monster inside the person and nobody is dead .my guess was on the spot haha
Also judging from Lion’s flashback, she sounds like she can predict the future in some way/see possible futures (she said that woman’s husband mightdie), but her mother is definitely suckering people regardless.
I don’t deny that some of the ridiculous, absurd, crazy moments of Mayoiga really seem to be made intentionally by the writers.
However I think it’s more likely that most of those silly, what-the-fuck scenes of it is simply a result of poor writing by the writers, especially so about this episode 10.
Maybe, just maybe (I don’t have any hard evidence though)… the writers had a main core motif of the story (that is, Let’s Suppose that there is a mysterious supernatural village where your past mental trauma materializes and appears to you – NANAKI-, and let a bunch of losers/victims visit there and see what happens!”). But they had no good idea/writing capability of how to add concrete and specific flesh and blood to the rather abstract bone(the main motif) for making a coherently well written story. So they dragged out the story as much as possible until they finally had to reveal the main motif – at least some of it – (the secret of NANAKI and the village), only in order to keep the audience be curious about what the heck all of these are really about.
If this show is funny, hilarious and entertaining, I think most of those moments are unintentional side effect of the writers’ poor idea, poor writing.
I don’t think you’d need much evidence to support this theory, as a lot of shows encounter this same problem. They have an idea, and kinda don’t know where to go with it, or they paint themselves into a corner trying to flesh it out (failure in execution). It’s actually pretty common. The more successful shows have mapped out their end games and many middle points, so it’s easier for them to get there.
I thought Lost was a good example of this, or to a lesser extent (and I’m sorry to even mention it in the same breath as Lost), but Heroes really suffered from that, though it fell apart for a completely different reason. I feel like Game of Thrones is suffering from that too, as it comes off really disjointed now.
I haven’t seen Another yet, but it’s on my list!
Bammboo Blade Cat //
I’d like to add: It’s remarkable that ANOTHER (an anime adaptation based on a novel) is much quicker to reveal one of the key secrets of the story (Episode 5, not 10) than Mayoiga (arguably in a more clear, plain and straightforward way), yet is reasonably successful to keep the suspense of show and keep it to be entertaining during the rest of the show.
For the record, the very first episode of Another was at least relatively quite unsettling precisely because the camera work, sound work and lighting during the hospital basement and elevator scene were not over-the-top. The key to all this is the psychological slowing down of the perception of time and a sense of claustrophobia.
Is Koharun going to turn another Takano?
Will someone save the victims of Nanakimura Apathy?
This show is just plain bad.
I should have realized it was Koharun. She looks a lot like a certain person from Higurashi.
“It’s easy to see why shows like Re:Zero, Kabaneri, and Boku no Hero Academia are ranked so high, while shows like Mayoiga, Kuromukuro, Shounen Maid, and Joker Game have way lower scores.
People are perfectly entitled to think Mayoiga is a terrible show, but until the show proves otherwise, I’ll maintain the point of view that there’s more than meets the eye here, and that lots of anime fans aren’t used to this sort of show and mistake it for being plain bad when there’s more to enjoy once you looks past the obvious idiocy of it all. ”
In my experience, audience give a low score to a show for at least two different reasons – which are not entirely unrelated one another but should be distinguished: (1) They give a low score to a show since it is not entertaining for them, not being to their taste, (2) or since they think that it’s plainly bad, of poor quality regardless of their taste.
Thus, unless we don’t really know for which reason they give way lower scores to apparently unconventional, non-mainstream style anime, such as Showa Genroku (7.65 at MAL) and Joker Game (7.46 at MAL) – than Re:zero or Kabaneri, we can’t conclude that the mainstream anime fan give such lower scores to them only because they mistake it for being plain bad.
There are another reason to doubt your belief – Mayoiga has a low reputation just because the mainstream anime fan are not used to the unconventional style of Mayoiga, so that they mistake it for being plain bad –
Both of Joker Game and Showa Genrok got high scores (4.5 out of 5 for the former, and 4.9 out of 5 for the second) at Crunchyroll, while Mayoiga got a way lower one (3.4 out of 5).
I believe you won’t deny that all of these are far from being conventional, mainstream style anime, arguably a sort of anime which mainstream anime fan are not so used to.
Then why only Mayoiga got such a lower score compare the other 2, even though all of them are far from being conventional?
This strongly suggests that your defense of Mayoiga – it got a low score simply because it is not conventional – is not valid.
Tbh, although I don’t use MAL. I wouldn’t associate a high score on there with obvious quality. I mean, I loved One Punch Man as much as the next person, but it was nothing more than popcorn type viewing, it has a 8.9/10 on there because it generally is an enjoyable show that has reached a mainstream audience. But it’s not really a show with a complex plot or any kind of deep meaningful storyline.
However there are plenty of quality anime shows that fail to reach that level of popularity out there.
Lyfe // “I wouldn’t associate a high score on there with obvious quality.”
It’s not me who associate a score with quality, but Samu.
I referred to scores of some anime at Crunchyall as a counter example to argue against him.
I mean, I always felt it was kinda tragic how underrated Fafner Exodus was, especially on here. It was great that those who watched it, loved it. But this show, to me, was incredible. I lost count the amount of times this show genuinely impressed me with its writing and battles. I could see why this sold so well in Japan, but it was odd how it was never popular outside of Japan.
Some shows just never catch on with that mainstream audience. If they do, they have a great chance of getting high ratings on these kinds of websites.
I don’t use MAL either, nor do I associate high scores with quality, as they’re rarely synonymous. But, like IMDB, it can be used as a reference.
I used Tatami Galaxy since Samu mentioned it earlier, which scored fairly high, and an older show Kemonozume, which just popped up in my head when thinking of unconventional shows. Or another one Kaiba 8.3
Point being, using Mayoiga’s MAL score to show the subjectiveness of rankings is a bit like cherry picking your arguments. Counter examples can easily be found to dispel that notion that its low score is inherently flawed in some way.
I suspect Samu’s defense of Mayoiga is purely an emotional one, as it’s certainly not a logical one. It’s getting attacked and he won’t budge on it, not that he should, but the reasoning itself is not consistent. We can’t call Mayoiga a bad show overall, but we can say that about Comet Lucifer, and that’s completely inconsistent.
As you say, his reasoning cannot be applied to other shows in the same manner, since there are many unconventional shows that are scored fairly generously on MAL – Tatami Galaxy 8.66, Kemonozume 7.61 – shows that are certainly not conventional (Kemonozume is great show btw).
The real question is, does he really wanna die on this hill defending this show of all shows? There are far, far better shows to defend so fiercely.
Bamboo Blade Cat, Samu //
I’m not sure if Samu’s defense is emotional, but agree that it lacks consistency and is more rhetorical rather than logical. In one place he gives an impression that the show is a (intended) glorious mess as a whole, – a quite sweeping bold claim – but he immediattely makes a backdoor to run away, adding to say “the staff do NOT go for a COMPLETELY serious story” (the WHOLE thing is a mess, but not completely – thus, possibly only a small portion of it- serious?)
Anyway, be it glorious or not, the anime is promoted as a serious mystery anime by its official twitter and online anime magazine news articles in Japan. So I doubt that the whole glorious mess is really something intended by the staff.
If it is really a gloriou(?) mess as a whole, it’s likely an accidental result.
It’s a mess, that’s for sure, but whether it’s glorious or not, that’s the question.
My assessment that it’s an emotional defense is that it defies logic, so it must be as a result somewhat emotional. It seems to get more stubbornly rigid in the face of aggressive criticism, which is understandable, but certainly not logical. And because it lacks consistency, nor can it be applied to other arguments means there’s bias at work, and that in itself, is emotional (bias is the root of subjectivity).
And I haven’t actually seen a substantial reason or argument of why he thinks the show is good, other than a bunch of vague commentary: it doesn’t play by the rules, it’s unconventional, the staff is intentionally making it crazy, I’m enjoying it. Those aren’t detailed reasons like, “because the staff is intentionally making it crazy (provides link or excerpt for proof), the result is flipping genre expectations on its head, creating a story with far more depth than any of its predecessors had ever achieved” or “It’s an unconventional show, which certainly doesn’t make it good, but because the characterizations are so well done, and the plot mechanics well written, being unconventional only adds to what a great show this is.”
But, like, none of that can really be said about the show. It’s really not unconventional at all (if it’s just like a Stephen King story, that’s not unconventional). It’s not well written (there are tropes abound, plus it’s highly exploitative, that’s never good). And it’s debatable whether it’s intentionally a mess or not, so without proof, why keep pushing that?
I just don’t see why it can’t be a case of, this is not a very good show, but I’m enjoying it. As having to justify that it’s good at every turn, just sort of brings you down to the level of the casual viewer who lacks sophistication and critical thought to be a good reviewer, because reductively it sounds like, because I enjoy it it must be good sort of thing.
And judging from the other shows he reviews, he totally isn’t like this normally, so it seems like there’s an emotional component to this which makes him unable to judge this without this extreme bias.
So will this “debate” carry over to the final two episodes? It’d be nice if we could discuss the content of these episodes rather than, well this. Y’all are entitled to your opinions, but if this thread is going to be more of the same, I think I’ll just get my opinion of the episode in early(if I can..) and avoid commenting further.
Hopefully not. I’d rather talk about the episodes themselves as well, and with only two more to go there should be plenty to dissect.
Y’know, if the authorial intend behind this show is finally uncovered to be “Owh, we wanted to make a very thought-provoking and serious anime. We wanted the audience watching the show to think about how to live life as well but it seems that things did not turn out as expected. SUMIMASEN DESHITA!”, I’d probably be the first one to open up a Skype party just to bash the fuck out of it, seriously. And when that DOES happen, hopefully you guys would join in on the fun and just talk shit about it, while possibly being drunk or stoned, whichever works for you guys or whatever, lolololololol. But like yeah, that’s only if the creators revealed their intent and that it’s clear that they failed reeeeeeaaaallllyyy hard at it.
Anyways, we are all DONE with this. If it’s manifest that the creators goofed the fuck up, SKYPE PARTY! If not, then we’ll call it a glorious mess. This debate is over.
Eh. I am with Samu as regards to Mayoiga. Bad writing is bad writing but the background music as well as the slapdash plot progression makes me think it’s all intentional.
Good thing I kept watching even though some episodes were horrible.
Nishizawa Mihashi, samui et al // “if the authorial intend behind this show is finally uncovered to be “Owh, we wanted to make a very thought-provoking and serious anime…”
An interview news article with Kohara Makoto (小原充) – the representative company director of Diomedea (ディオメディア), an anime production studio of Mayoiga – and an anime producer Ishiguro Tatsuya (石黒達也) provides a crucial info about what kind of anime the staff of Mayoiga aimed to create.
Source URL : http://www.sanspo.com/otacul/news/20160404/otc16040412180004-n1.html
The below are some quotations relevant to it from the news article.
(1) Kohara Makoto (小原充) – the representative company director of Diomedea – wanted to make an original anime of dramatic human drama.
“そもそもさかのぼるところ２０１２年の後半ぐらいから、とにかくオリジナルのアニメを作りたいという思いがありました。 … 僕の中ではドラマチックなものがやりたかったんですね。ドラマ性があって、１話完結の内容でなく、ちゃんと１話ずつ積んでいくストーリーもの。人間ドラマをしっかり描きたいというのがまずあったので、人の心情や人間関係を描きたいと思っていました。”
To being with, I hoped to make an original anime at any rate around late 2012 … There was a desire inside me which wanted to make . A story which proceeds and develops episode over episode, instead of an episodic anime in which each episode has its own conclusion. What I had in mind is a work in which a human drama is described strongly, and in addition to that, human sentiments and relationships are depicted.
(2) And… Kohara Makoto (小原充) found a nakama (comrade) – an anime producer Ishiguro Tatsuya (石黒達也) – who shared the same taste with him.
About that time, I met Ishiguro Tatsuya (石黒達也) – a producer of Squid girl (イカ娘) – got to have a very close and good friendship with him. So I decided to have some discussion with him. Since he shared the same taste about drama as I, we came to have a mutual understanding soon.
(3) And the director was decided there (Mizushima 水島), but he was so busy.
Q: So the director (of the anime) was decided in the discussions… right?
Kohara (小原) : Yes,
… We thought we should get in touch with the one whom we wanted most, and he replied he would be fine if it was scheduled for 2016.
(4) And they (Kohara and Ishiguro) had some talk with Mizushima 水島.
“小原 :いろいろな話をしまして、僕は、都市伝説はどうでしょうか？とか、石黒さんは日本の妖怪だったりとか。… 水島さんが「じゃあこういうのを掛け合わせたらこうなりますね」みたいな話をしながら、最終的には、そこにヒューマン的なところを入れ込んでいった。水島さんは「キャラクターの人数がいっぱい欲しいね」とかいろいろごちゃごちゃ言いながら話をして。で、「これは誰かシリーズ構成を入れないともう無理でしょ」みたいな話になった。で、誰にしますかって聞かれたので、僕のほうで「この内容ならなら岡田磨里さんかな」と。”
Kohara (小原): So we had talks a variety of points, so that I suggested “What about a city legend?” and Ishiguro mentioned (folk tales of) Japanese ghost-demon. And Mizushiuma concluded the discussion, suggesting “then, it will be something like a hybrid of those motifs, right?”, and finally we decided to stuff human dramatic elements into it. Mishizama said to us “It would be good if the show is filled with a bunch of characters” and so on, and then the flow of the talk turned to series composition director, saying “If so… someone would be needed as a series composition director for the show, in order to deal with so many characters”. As I was asked about who would be suitable for that job, I said “For such a content, Okada mari-san (岡田磨里) would be good.”
(5) Okada mari’s answer, and the beginning of Mayoiga
Okada-san was willing to accept the proposal, saying “Good. It seems interesting.” And Muzushima-san also said “I’d like to join with Okada-san together”. … And as a result of talks and discussions by all of us, it became a work of Japanese fantasy – Human drama – City legend, these elements being mixed up all together.
In my view, the interview article above is a strong enough evidence for us to believe that the intention of the creators/staff was far from making an anime characterized as “just being utterly ridiculous”, “a glorious mess”, “Tragically silly backstories”, “self-aware comedy” “spouting out nonsense that is so ridiculous you can’t help but laugh” and so on.
They intended to add “a dramatic/touching human drama”… to it.
thanks fripsidelover9111 for the article, it provides a lot of context. And I agree, judging from what you’ve translated, their vision didn’t seem to include much of what you said.
Perhaps where the mess/ridiculousness comes in is when they got Okada involved, as she’s known for and prone to putting in hysterics when it comes to her characterizations, and that can really take over and color a story if thee’s too much of it.
Bamboo Blade Cat // Yes, the article really provides a lot of context, lets us to have an idea of how the show came to be the way it is seen now. It was an interesting read to me.
“Perhaps where the mess/ridiculousness comes in is when they got Okada involved, as she’s known for and prone to putting in hysterics when it comes to her characterizations”
I agree. It seems a quite plausible conjecture.
AHEM. (Bear with me on my ‘special dialect’ because man this show can just no longer be taken seriously at any length anymore 😛 )
TU DIA! There, there, you see? Evidence! What more you want say ah? The evidence right there edi, so what else want debate? I was like Samu also, just thinking that maybe, just maybe lah, this show was made for pure lulz, but then you get evidence like this confirming that they wanted to make it “Owh so serious”, but by then the anime become gone case edi. How can everything turn out like this you say? I dunno ah, but one thing’s for sure, I pity the creators in a strange way right now. Man, just think ah… All dat ambition, flowing like river into the sewer. So damn sad weih… Completely wasted potential you know?
Anyways, so since it’s like this edi, the Skype Party I mentioned previously you guys want or don’t want? Go or no go? I was thinking we can do it for the final episode or something like that lah, but if nobody want, then I do it myself ah. Go record my reaction, then post it on Youtube like that. It’s not ideal but anything to ignite the napalm and let it burn one last time as a rite of passage, or something like that lah.
So yeah, go or no go, at least make use of these final 2 weeks to get ready to drop the Czar Bomba. At least go out with bang right? lol 😛
Aisseh man, I tell you ah, this anime is less like a ‘fusion’ of good ideas, but more like a ‘fission’ of good ideas, so next time when got convention wan ah, I make panel highlight this series as how NOT to write a good story. Athena will smile I tell you, SMILE!