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「怠惰で臆病な姫君」 (Taidade Okubyouna Himegimi)
“A Lazy, Cowardly Princess”
Nation-level politics at its best.
Their First Loot
The newbies weren’t a large part of this episode, which is kind of a shame – with the massive leaps in character growth and camaraderie they’ve made, I actually look forward to their scenes now. What I liked was finally seeing someone reference loot. It should come as no surprise to anyone that loot is important in this game, but having it finally reference and showing its importance was a nice nod for old MMO players. Even better though? The bonding the team did over so freely and willingly giving the gauntlets to Rudy. It’s the “obvious” thing to do, but the depth of the gesture should not be understated. After all, if they weren’t a team then they may have rolled for it, or sold it so they could all benefit. Giving it to Rudy is a way of saying he’s important to them and him getting stronger is solidly to their benefit simply because it benefits them, and that makes my heart all warm and fuzzy on the inside. They’re a real team!
Bonus points: Rudy totally deserves it after the support work and team play he was throwing out there. Though so do the others – Serara’s roots, Tohya leading the goblins to them, Isuzu’s support songs, Minori on the lookout…they’re finally a real team, awesome!
Politics of the Old
Once again, Touno-sensei proves that he understands politics better than most authors out there. The political horse-trading in this episode was very believable. First of all was what I refer to as the Politics of the Old, and it’s what you will recognize as politics proper.
The Lords of Eastal are the most obvious offenders practitioners. In order to avoid owing the adventurers of Akihabara anything, and because they were more scared of what the adventurers might do instead of what the goblins would do, they were willing to sacrifice the city of Tsukuba. When you look at it with what we might call “common sense”, this is fucking stupid, with the curse word most definitely required. That city is inhabited by people who will die if they don’t act, and yet they’re willing to let them die for fleeting political gain. Sounds familiar? Because it ought to. And yet there’s logic to it, because in the lords’ eyes the uncertain danger of the immortal adventurers is far more important than the certain danger of the beatable goblins. But people will still die.
Even the adventurers of the Round Table were not immune to this. They went in they’re playing good cop/bad cop…is what I’d say, but honestly it was more like quiet cop, blunt cop, and angry cop. What they really did was go in and play the Kirk/Spock/McCoy bit, with Krusty as Kirk (ego, trope!), Shiroe as Spock (superego, trope!), and Michitaka as McCoy (id, trope!). Shiroe was to act in favor of sending troops and dig for information, Michitaka was to be against them and act angry – a job he did a little too well – and while Krusty’s role wasn’t spelled out, you can imagine him trying to “force” them into the accord they secretly agreed upon earlier. And yet, while they were playing these political head games, even they forgot to treat their opposites with respect, and that lives were on the line. They were treating the lords of Eastal like adversaries rather than working with them to save lives.
The Politics of the Young
Then there’s the other kind of politics, the Politics of the Young. You’ll recognize these by other names such as “idealism” or “common sense”. Minori and the other newbies embody this, abandoning politics per say and doing what is right. Lenessia, though, was the real star this week.
Personally, I find real world politics to be fascinating, but one thing constantly aggravates me – why is it that nation-states can act more like children than actual children can? We scold kids for not sharing or hitting others to show they’re strong, and then our governments go out and do these very things all the time! (Or have in the past…no nation’s history is clean of that, unless they haven’t gotten the chance yet.) That’s Politics of the Old, which might more accurately be called Children’s Politics.
What Lenessia did was something different – she treated everyone like people who are worthy of respect. Rather than treating the adventurers like tools to be used, she treated them like individuals who have to be asked as equals. Rather than see the people of Tsukuba as pawns in a power game, she saw them as people whose lives she wanted to save. She treated everyone like people, and set out to do the best she could for everyone involved.
I wish more of our world’s politics was like that, don’t you?
Looking Ahead – A Way Out
The Lords of Eastal lucked out, because Lenessia has given them a way out. She understand adventurers, she understands that freedom requires resolve, and she finally understands that in the adult world, you have to work really hard to earn the right to slack off. Crazy, isn’t it? But best of all was how she surprised Krusty. Shiroe is right, you don’t see that very often!
It looks like next time will give Lenessia more chances to surprise Krusty, and us a chance to hear another Touno-sensei speech. I don’t know if she’ll be able to match a certain peasant girl, but I’d love to find out.
tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – Politics at its finest. And when all is looking bleak, Lenessia saves the day! #loghorizon 17
Random thoughts:
- D’aaawww, Lenessia is so kawaii when she’s scared. I want me own lazy princess!
Check out my blog about storytelling and the fantasy novel I’m writing at stiltsoutloud.com. The last four posts: Dogfights, battleships, & sword fights, Combo counter update – It’s going well, it’s going not so well, I really like this scene, and Unveil an actuality. My current combo counter: Editing chain, 15 days long. Writing chain, 2 days long.
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Totally LMAO when Michitaka spoofed Shiroe adjusting his glasses. Brilliant comedic touch by the anime.
Respect. It’s a basic concept but a lot of people don’t understand it. You don’t have to like everyone but you should at least treat people with respect. The people of the land should respect the adventurers and the adventurers should respect the people of the land.
TQ
Or the adventurers could give them a fuck and rule them all, just like real life. xD
The problem of that approach, no matter how pure your intentions are, there is distrust and will always have an underlying motive. This is why the Round Table Council simply do not want to jump right into action without knowing if the People of the Land will acknowledge their actions as a fitting example that they should be respected.
Everyone doesn’t want to be a political tool. Adventurers themselves do whatever they want and are not bound by political blah blahs.
You’re not wrong, and yet all the games politicians play are deleterious to the public good, and even frequently to themselves. You need to make sure you’re not used, yes…unless letting yourself be used gets you what you want. I think pride is a great thing in many situations, but when people’s lives are at stake? Fuck it.
I’m sorry, this is a very good episode but it is in no way comparable to real politics. This is two groups of basically good people who are in agreement on what the problem is and who are facing an unquestionably evil, basically mindless adversary. It’s actually weird that it took them so long to agree.
The closest real comparison to a ‘monster’ invasion is a natural disaster, and in those situations most nations fall all over themselves helping.
Real politics are complicated because of a few things that were not present here. The first and foremost is evil. Some people really, truly, completely suck. China drove over protesters with a tank. Girls in the middle East get acid thrown at them when they attend school, or divorce husbands twice their age. And so on and so forth with most countries on Earth. Even the good politicians cannot always operate honestly because the people they are dealing with are dangerous, or evil, or simply don’t share the same values.
A much better comparison to real politics would be if two Lander nations went to war and the Adventurers were caught in the middle. That would be less cut and dry.
Stilts, public good is incidental. Only, to use your term, the politics of the young, believe in it, and they’re going to be manipulated.
The first rule of power is to stay in power, and those leading only care for those directly supporting them. To do otherwise means less power.
If this were not a fiction, the lords and king would likely play head games with possessing the princess too, declining her travels and personal freedom.
There’s no end to debates and objections without overruling power.
Exactly. But it’s also more than that. Public good is not incidental. A lot of politicians really do believe in the public good. The problem is none of them agree on what the public good really is. They can all be honestly trying to achieve the best end result and still achieve nothing but pointless bickering because they can’t agree on what the best result is.
That was what made this conference easier to begin with. Everyone was in agreement on what was good and what was evil. The only problem really was respect. What made Lenessia’s response so great was not that her idea would work in real politics, but that it fit so perfectly to the problem they had here, which is actually the sign of a good politician.
The Lords of Eastal were being disrespectful to the Adventurers, not as superiors but even as equals. They were attempting to coerce a group of people into fighting their war for them without even being honest with them. They were so afraid of owing the Adventurers that they started treating them as tools. Lenessia brought them back from that to something more honest.
This show is getting better and better. I found myself cheering on Lennesia and Minori all episode long. However, for some reason, I thought the newb group was going to get ambushed with all the noise they were making. =P
As a woman, watching the scene where a young woman who was raised with no agency of her own walking into an all-male conference and provided them with a solution to a problem they’ve been struggling with for days, is such a joy. Mamare-sensei doesn’t just write strong woman, he wrote interesting woman.
Also, believable politics.
Agreed. It’s like I mentioned last week – that Lenessia and Minori are strong characters in their own right, and in no ways are accessories to men…and Marie-nee, and Henrietta, and I could go on…shows uncommon equality in the treatment between male and female characters. I wish this wasn’t so unusual, both in anime and without.
This is something I’m mildly curious about but doubt will ever be covered. The Landers SEEM to have fairly standard medieval ideas about gender roles;i.e. all the lords and soldiers we see are male while the females are all in fancy dresses.
The Adventurers on the other hand are, as far as we’ve been shown, all but equal. This should lead to some conflicts. As it does, and has, throughout history. Like I said, I doubt it will really be mentioned, but it would be interesting.
OK, am I the only one who finds the princess hand waving during her speech a little…a good way to put it, distracting?
agree.. it could be more dramatic if the waving is not as often.. or shot from different angle as well as different speech pace..
Yeah I found that distracting too. Best way to think about it though is a naive girl who has no experience in controlling her heartfelt and serious feelings. Since she has never engaged in this sort of action before it’s only natural she will use hand waving and other forms of motion as a means to “better” convey her message to the meeting which comes off as offsetting to the rest of us.
Those most deficient in a particular field (yet most passionate about) often resort to body motion to make up for their lack of social grace and specific knowledge (similar to the argument he who yells the loudest knows the least). I’ve done it too for things that get my blood boiling. Sometimes you simply don’t know what it is you’re doing until you’ve done it.
Huh, that’s actually makes very good sense.
What Pancakes said. I actually thought that was rather clever (assuming it was meant as I took it), because non-verbal communication is a big part of in-person speech that often isn’t shown in anime. Pancakes is right though, when you’re nervous and don’t know how much to use, you can easily go overboard (or under-board) with the hand gestures. And we know she was nervous.
As someone who is part Italian I have to disagree.
Should have included the caveat “does not apply to Italians or French”, my bad 😛
Lenessia accomplished more in four minutes than the politicians and leaders did in hours of arguing. That took some real courage on her part to walk in there and essentially tell them all “stop being stupid, if you won’t do what needs to be done then I will!”
…So adorable… I WANT TO TAKE HER HOME WITH ME!
you have to get by Crusty first XD
Totally worth that fight.
Eh, if you can provide Lenessia with 3 meals and nap a day, and Crusty with the same and as many battles as he wants, I don’t see how he would have anything against taking them both home.
Good job crusty!!
As a poli sci major, I love all of the politics in this show.
And Stilts, you should read “Man, The State and War” by Waltz!
Michitaka beasted all over that table. Now I kinda wanna see him punch someone in the face.
Michitaka beasted all over that table. Now I kinda wanna see him punch someone in the face.
Have some mercy, dude. If Michitaka can crack a marble table, I wouldn’t want to see what he can do to a person’s face. It does serve as a nice reminder the advantages the Adventures have in term of strength and power over the PoTL though.
That book…actually seems pretty interesting! Added it to my backlog. I wish I didn’t have such a big backlog in everything ;_;
It IS interesting!
Though it’s pretty neorealist, so if that’s not your school of thought you might end up disagreeing a lot.
But it’s an interesting read either way. I’m enjoying it.
BTW Mitchi is a Monk/Blacksmith. He is probably specced on Dmg and Hit.
What class would Lenessia be?
Lenessia: LF50M – Goblin King. Need tanks and healers. PST
No DPS?
DPS is usually the easiest to find.
You can always find DPS, especially when you don’t need any more, lol
Believe it or not, I’ve been in a guild where we were all so “selfless” that almost everyone played tanks or healers.
We often had to go outside the guild for DPS to fill in our parties.
Of course, if we were really “selfless”, some of us would just have switched to DPS to round the guild off, but nah, no way I’m playing DPS. Too easy.
You will need AOE Class Adventures, too. Tanks can only attack 1 Enemy at time, except their “Taunt” Skill. But even the Skill has its limits, and the Attack Aggro control, to protect your Healer in your Back. If the Aggro will be to much, your Healer will get in a Pinch. Then there is better to have an AOE to get some Steam off the Tank and Backup in this Aggro chain
It all comes to Aggro control of many Attackers..
I think the number one thing that the anime misses is the character sheets at the start of chapters. Rayneshia’s sheet is of course the chapter starter for what the anime just adapted. No real surprise since same title.
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/4/4a/Log_Horizon_Vol04_070-071.jpg
Level 12? Noble?!? She’s a newb that will aggro everything on the way to the battle site. Sneaking up to the goblins is out of the question. Maybe she can serve tea to the adventurers? =P
Just to be the guy giving the serious answer, aren’t she and all the Eastal Lords the ‘noble’ class. I thought they showed that with Sergead.
Subclass: Rosegarden Princess. I am NOT making that up.
Ah, so she’s the Rosegarden Princess. Folks noticed the subclass back when whole bunches of them were listed: it was one of the ones that no one had a clue what it was about. I wonder if it actually provides any useful benefits.
Lvl:12 Class:Noble Race:Human
HP:909 MP:455
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=File:Log_Horizon_Vol04_070-071.jpg
For a lvl12 chara her HP seems a bit high. At lvl15 she’d be at HP:1300.
A princess who will ask each and every adventurer to come to their aid. Now that’s a truly humble approach. Seeing how high up their rank was in several episodes, it was really unthinkable for a princess of highest rank would try to walk through the streets of Akihabara to beg for aid.
Sign me up!
Very interesting episode. Rudy truly does grow on you overtime. Golden Retriever x3
Hmm the concept of respect and freedom really does resonate within the episode. While the diplomacy for me seemed a lot more enticing to watch than the Scrub Horizon skirmishes. I dunno, I think its just a preference seeing such themes incorporated into a series such as this that makes it unique.
Still Raynesia imploring the adventurers to help defend Eastal will surely benefit both sides. It will draw the relationship between the Landers and Adventurers much closer through Raynesia acting as an intimediary, while encouraging trade and economic growth.
Also it looks like Krusty kidnapped our favorite princess in the last scene. ROTFL XDD
Anyways. Time to raid. 8D
Also to build upon your thoughts on the whole Politics of the old (aka the Realist view in IR theory) and the Politics of the Young (aka the Liberalist view of IR theory) you are quite correct that to regular folks the Nobles of Eastal are childish. But as you pointed out both sides are trying to gather information from each other (aka the perennial Prisoner’s dillema theory and coordination issue) that both sides are always worried about security and the ability to enforce power in an anarchic system. Anyways, that is probably why Mamare Touno always promotes trade and economics as a way to resolve issues to create closer ties to each side (ala Globalization/Neo-Liberal theory)
Glad to hear the ideas I pulled out of my ass have grounding in established socio-political theory, haha!
Yeah it is. Being a PoliSci major and having 3/4 classes this quarter being International Relations and Political Economy classes really smacked all this information into my head that I could just see it flowing from this series LOL.
Here’s the links to clarify:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realism_(international_relations)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_(international_relations)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
I like the links, but the realism bit presumes states act rationally. They don’t act rationally by outside standards.
Whole lead a horse to water. What may seem like a good idea to the horse owner, or outside entity, may seem like a terrible idea to the horse, or object/entity. Maybe out of pride, or distrust, but we cannot know why the horse does not drink.
Saddam and Iraq kept up the idea that they may have nuclear weapons and wmds, when it turned false, whereas the layman might think why are they playing that game, or simpler yet OMG they have wmds. Saddam projected idea of fear and power, even when he didn’t. That sort of thinking kept his internal enemies at bay, as iraq factions tore each other to bits after he left, but outside his country no one wanted him to project the idea he had wmds.
Religion too is not rational. Power based, but not rational. I’m glad this series did not touch on any religions, because it’d make the faction squabbling just all that much worse and impossible to come to terms.
Yeah, his writing certainly seems to paint him as a strong proponent of Neo-liberal theory.
As I mentioned above though while these terms are applicable to this situation, the issue is MUCH simpler than real world politics due to the enemy being obviously evil. You don’t have to question their motives, you don’t have to worry about which states will join which side, etc.
We all know everyone is against the Goblins, it’s just a question of concessions for aid really. Similar to why Europe was, at times, hesitant to ask the US to get involved in the World Wars; they were concerned about what the US would ask for in return for their help.
I do commend on the mention of the agony surrounding dividing the loot. It is certainly frustrating when the loot that you get when playing MMOs aren’t ones that you could use.
Putting that aside, with respect, I beg to differ from Stilts’ position on the politics.
In regards to the ‘politics of the old’, it is certainly not ‘stupid’ to sacrifice a city. The enemy is an invading force and they are merely trying to use whatever is available to them to defend themselves. As the chances of the goblins attacking the city in question is high, coupled with the fact that the city seemed to be well fortified, using that city as a means to cut a sizeable portion of the goblin army is a rational decision.
As shown in the scene when the two lords were discussing the matters, they do recognise the dire consequences of using that city as a choke point to the goblins’ invasion – yet these are of course potential consequences as it has yet to happen. Trying to fight off an invading force with 0 casualties is impossible and any thought that this ideal could be achieved is merely regressing back into the very fallacy that ‘city is inhabited by people who will die if they don’t act’.
One more point on the ‘politics of the old’ is that the adventurers and the lords are adversaries – they are not there for charitable purposes; they are there to advance the interests they represent. This is only natural.
In regards to the politics of the young point, although the princess’s statement seems to be somewhat effective, it is clearly to her own detriment. A system based on aristocracy – Eastal – is based on the support of the lords. If the crown fails to garner the support of the lords, it is highly possible that the lords would instate a new monarch.
Also, her argument that by procuring volunteers, it would not be requesting the adventurers as a nation to aid Eastal, is flawed. As the goal of the lords and the princess’s argument is to obtain aid without being indebted to the adventurers, the volunteers argument does not achieve its goal. Specifically going to Akihabara shows that one is willing to take that extra step for one’s own cause, and therefore places the person approached with the upper hand. Also, requesting volunteers from a foreign force is a recognition that your own forces cannot accomplish what is required, and the volunteers only aided you out of pity.
In regards to the politics of the young point, although the princess’s statement seems to be somewhat effective, it is clearly to her own detriment. A system based on aristocracy – Eastal – is based on the support of the lords. If the crown fails to garner the support of the lords, it is highly possible that the lords would instate a new monarch.
What’s interesting about Eastal is that it has no king to be served. The lords have their own city to rule over and Duke Corwen is the Chairman of the League because (i) the Corwen family is a direct descendant of a previous monarchy and (ii) Maihama is the biggest city within the League itself. So, even if Lenessia’s plan fails, I doubt it will have any major impact on the Corwen family at a whole. To herself, yes.
There is of course, no information pertaining the exact aristocratic structure of the nation. But in regards to the notion of ‘chairman’ (etc), if the First Barons’ War against King John back in the 13th century was any indication, the so called ‘chairman’ can be compelled.
Holy shit man, that is some stone cold yet realistic thinking right there. Are you in politics or something?
What you say is correct, that’s why (mild spoiler) Show Spoiler ▼
Show Spoiler ▼
there’s a few points you’re forgetting to consider here
first, with the sacrificing of a city, what Stilts was claiming to be stupid is the fact that the nobles choose to consider this method (sacrifice) first even though they know for sure this guarantees large dmg. as opposed to asking the Adventurers is a much superior option if they don’t let their pride get in the way. if asking Adventurers wasn’t a real option, then maybe sacrifice of a single city might be the best option but it’s obviously not in this case
phrasing the two groups as adversaries is a bit extreme since they’re not antagonistic towards each other
second, they don’t have a Monarch. as aeria mentions, Duke Corwen is simply the chairman of the league. there’s also no other family with as much legitimacy or influence as Duke Corwen’s so they can’t instate a new monarch (not that there is one). even if it was the case, it’s kind of extreme for the other nobles to take that course of action, no? Raynessia obviously did that on her own accord so while they might want the Duke to take responsibility/blame for her actions, they can’t fault him completely for that.
lastly, when did Raynessia care for putting herself in the Adventurer’s debt? all she wanted to do is secure the safety of her people. plus, how does volunteering necessarily put one in another’s debt? the requested side will know full well that it’s up to them to do it with or without compensation. it is purely up to their own free will to aid the requesting side.
and for your last comment, it doesn’t have to be out of pity. it could be out of a sense of duty, seeking thrill/adventure, or just kindness or no reason at all cause they have nothing else to do. saying pity is the only possibility is a bit pessimistic
You took the words out of my mouth. For all the talk of right and wrong the lords of Eastal technically were thinking along the lines of least damage caused. By fixing the goblins against one city they were hoping to create an anvil that their armies as a hammer would then be able to bash repeatedly until successful. When you’re facing a powerful enemy with no guarantee of victory the question not is what you’re going to do, but what you can do to minimize the losses. Because in this case there WILL be death, it’s simply your job to minimize its effects.
The princess thus did the most stupid, yet useful thing possible (at least in a realist’s eyes): she offered herself up as a scapegoat. Offering to raise a squad of volunteers to save Eastal from the goblin threat gives the lords a way out from their predicament (if she fails she is entirely to blame, if she is successful it was due to their guiding hand in her development) and limits the legitimacy of the adventurers (they are fighting for the princess, NOT the Eastal nobles, therefore the nobles do NOT end up in the adventurer’s debt). Idealists always get used this way because they are unable to see the long lasting effects of their actions and how they play out on the political stage. No matter how correct her actions may be, she has become a convenient back door for the quagmire the political agents of Eastal found themselves in.
IMO the most important part of this episode though is where did the knights of Izumi (I think that’s their name) go? Because to me at least it seemed heavily hinted at that the adventurers have now become those very same knights that used to uphold the peace in the past.
It’s been my long opinion that people who call themselves realists are really cynics that don’t want to admit it. On the Kirk/Spock/McCoy continuum I’m afraid I fall more towards McCoy’s side than Spock’s nowadays. Yes their plan may have been strictly rational in certain ways – though GoXDS is right on the ways it is not – but when you look at it with a non-pols simple common sense, it becomes stupid. Why sacrifice lives when you can sacrifice pride? Pride can be recovered, but dead people cannot.
Also, Lenessia would not be putting the Eastal lords in the adventurer’s debt. It’s a sidestep yes, it’s one of those we-know-they-want-this-but-they-can’t-ask-for-it-directly things, but that’s fine because if everyone accepts the lie then the balance of power is preserved. That’s one of the ways politics works, when it works at all.
Other’n that, what GoXDS said.
showing from this episode and other previous episodes … those lords gives me the feeling that their pride are out of this world
I’m sensing a dump of responsibility here … with the consensus ending with krusty taking Lenessia to akiba without getting the other lords sides and opinions (well I’ll just assume since duke corwen silence everyone and they just fly off without warning). let say all’s well end’s well and the demi humans are neutralized and all. i thinks those lords will put all responsibility on Lenessia herself making it look like “only she ask them for the adventurers help and not us” and “she’s the only one in their debt” thus salvaging their pride
it’s not a pretty thing but i see it a lot of times on today’s politics. a president taking
one of his staff’s advice … if it goes well he takes the credit and if it fails he’ll make it look like his staff that gives it is not competent thus shoving the consequence on said staff, this is what i feel will happen to Lennesia, getting help is good but for the lords it will look like they would be indebted (that’s why i think they are forcing the adventurers to help them because they are strong and immortal and that it’s their “purpose” and “role” to help them) and they don’t want that =___=
out of topic though ….
STILTS !!!!!!!! WHY YOU NOT BLOGGING MIKAKUNI !!!!!!!!!
i want your opinion on kobeni’s rocket launcher of mass destruction !!!!!!
Why not sacrifice pride? First rule of power. Their power base must not be strong enough to withstand a drop in pride, thus they’d rather sacrifice the other guy than lose hold of their own perceived power.
However, all of them incorrectly assume the goblins will stop at any one castle. That is not guaranteed. The goblins may act as a horde and continue to pillage the countryside while the lords hole up in their castles. There’s certainly enough numbers advantage for the goblins to do so.
@ Exis
Sorry, but Thursdays were a bad day for blogging for me. I wish I could have 🙁 I’m going to try to do an END post for it though. You can check in with me on twitter for my impressions though.
As for Kobeni’s rocket launchers, yum :3
@stilts
why stilts !!! why !!!
… i don’t have a twitter account since i find it a hassle plus with my work i don’t think i can find time for it at all … T___T (damn it)
@Exis: I think you can see others’ twitter accounts without having one yourself
Just go to https://twitter.com/StiltsOutLoud if you want to see what I’ve been saying. Or wait until I do an END post, as noted. Best I can do for now :X
Throwing my 2 cents in on the “stupidity” of the Lord’s of Eastal’s plan.
In concept, it’s not stupid as a last resort/no better option strategy. Problem here is that, as the GoXDS state and others have stated, there IS a much better option at least potentially available – the adventurers. So IMO it IS stupid because they go straight to needless sacrifice before even TRYING to PROPERLY explore (i.e. respectfully and in good faith negotiate/ask the adventurers for help) a much more effective option – both in terms of cost and likelihood of success.
This isn’t a hard decision. Politely ask for assistance, or start losing cities and who knows how many thousands of valuable knights who are NOT readily replaceable. Worst case scenario is that negotiations break down and you’re back to square one = sacrifice city, etc, etc. Where’s the puzzle in that? The situation is dire to the point that the lords don’t have the luxury of baseless posturing.
The adventurers are a no risk solution in terms of victory. No question they can do the job. The alternative, most likely will work… THIS time, but what about the next goblin sortie, and/or the one after that? The threat won’t be extinguished until the goblin king is defeated or at least contained. A war of attrition is NOT something the Lords of Eastal can afford to fight. They WILL lose. And even IF they were some how able to defeat consecutive wave after wave of goblin sorties culminating with the goblin king, what little remained of their collective military forces could potentially invite attack from neighboring kingdoms.
That being said, if you really want to be cynical, then it IS a good idea from the stand point of all the lords except of course for the one who rules the city to be sacrificed. This is a loose confederation/alliance rather than a unified nation. I’m sure there’s plenty of jockeying for position by all the nobles via various underhanded ways, and what better way to knock down a rival than having the goblins do the hard work for you? I’m NOT suggesting that’s the case as there are other factors involved as noted above, but it is, IMO, potentially there on a conceptual level.
At any rate, throwing my lot in w/GoXDS and Stilts on this one. Pretty easy decision if you rationally think about it. Raynesia (I prefer this spelling) saved Eastal in a big way from their pride inspired stupidity. Not only that, her method is FAR less costly that what the lords might have had to pay had they negotiated in good faith from the start. She should be commended and rewarded by them, but given their actions/mentality, that’s unlikely to happen however unfair it may be.
In regards to the pride point, or the ‘easier method’ point, about requesting the adventurers, let us d a little thought experiment.
In the shoes of the lords:
As a lord of the land, I previously regarded the adventurers as barbarians who merely took quests for our rewards. We could control them thus and the status quo has not changed for years. The goblins came and are about to attack our cities. It might not be my land initially, but it will surely spread. I have family and friends and people on my land that I am responsible for. Would I go around and ask some barbarian out of this so called place, Akihabara, to help me when I don’t even know their motives, their background, or the possible consequences?
It is analogous to the real life situation of inviting thugs into your house to help your family.
**Even if the lords did request the adventurer’s help, let’s consider the possible implications.
In the shoes of the people:
I live in the land of a lord. The lord, under a quasi feudal system and so includes the tenants under subinfudation, has an obligation to protect the realm – that is what my taxes were for. In hindsight, these lords were absolutely useless. Are we that weak that we have to ask the adventurers for aid? Even if we are the people of the land, it is ridiculous how the lord did nothing but request the adventurer’s help immediately when danger comes by.
***
It is easy to draw real life situations whereby such uncertainty and doubt gave rise to civil unrest. True, it depends somewhat on which political philosophy one adheres to (Hobbesian adherers would agree to my point most certainly) but it is undeniable that people are bound to panic. They are bound to question. They are bound to adjudicate their blame, and the blamed would take the full brunt.
In regards to the aristocratic structure point:
The precise aristocratic structure is unknown. True, it may be that Lord Cowen is merely a ‘chairman’ per se, but the notion of chairman is not different from that of a monarch. He may not be considered the king but surely, he is considered as a person with better authority. His power rests on those who support him.
A real life situation that would give some insight is a prime minister. A prime minister may not be directly elected by the people, but someone chosen for his ability to command the confidence of a majority of Parliament. If his allies (people from his party) do not support him, then he will not be able to obtain that position.
King John back in the 13th century, for example, was compelled by his barons to sign the Magna Carta, which limited the monarch’s own power. There are also numerous examples of people toppling their monarchs and reinstating themselves as kings. If a ‘monarch’ is viewed merely as a position of power, rather than one which is supposedly conferred by destiny/fate/God/etc, then history shows that it will apply to Lord Cowen as well.
@Actus:
I disagree with your hypothesis because it is founded upon two misconceptions. First, that it is “strange” to ask the adventurers for help. The situation is the exact opposite. Second, you misunderstand the nature of the League of Freedom Towns Eastal.
– Would I go around and ask some barbarian out of this so called place, Akihabara, to help me when I don’t even know their motives, their background, or the possible consequences?
In a word, yes. Yes, because that’s EXACTLY what took place in the past time and time again. The whole concept of quests was that PotL gave adventurers “tasks” of a very similar, if not exactly the same, nature. In this very episode, one of Lords expounded that it was the adventurers DUTY to perform such actions. It is explicitly noted that the problem this year is that the adventurers failed to do what they NORMALLY do (raid the goblin tribes and thus prevent the goblin king from coming to power). Some lords even went as far to suggest that it was conspiracy on the part of adventurers this time since they failed to act in the same manner as they did EVERY other time since the 2nd “World Fracture”.
– Are we that weak that we have to ask the adventurers for aid? Even if we are the people of the land, it is ridiculous how the lord did nothing but request the adventurer’s help immediately when danger comes by.
Yes. Yes, they are that weak and the lords, nobles and the rest of the PotL know it all too well. PotL understand very well the need for adventurers and the role they play. They even talk about how adventurers are “immortal” and “invincible” this very episode. It’s standard operating procedure rather than “ridiculous” for adventurers to do this type of work. What “peasantry” would consider “ridiculous” is having their farmlands destroyed (potentially causing widespread hunger), homes destroyed, and countless lives lost because their lord who is supposed to protect them can’t figure out what a 15 year old “lazy, cowardly”, and politically naive girl could. And that’s if they win.
So yes, they would the go around asking these “barbarians” to handle such tasks since that’s what’s routinely been done before. The issue/sticking point here is that the Lords of Eastal don’t want to owe the adventurers – expressly be in their debt, nor do they want to do anything which might cause them to be in an inferior bargaining position during this first round of negotiations which in part will determine whether the two sides well be viewed as equals or one side superior to the other. Again, note the comment by lords that it was the adventures responsibility – duty to do so by the very fact of who they are. If Shiroe, Krusty and Michitaka had replied “You’re right –it’s our fault/responsibility so we’ll take care of it”, the lords would have been ecstatic. Problem solved. Instead, Michitaka refused too aggressively which caused the parties to be too far apart to compromise and still save face. It’s that simple. Shiroe even points that out.
– The precise aristocratic structure is unknown. True, it may be that Lord Cowen is merely a ‘chairman’ per se, but the notion of chairman is not different from that of a monarch. He may not be considered the king but surely, he is considered as a person with better authority. His power rests on those who support him.It is easy to draw real life situations whereby such uncertainty and doubt gave rise to civil unrest.
Maybe not the case in the anime, but the League’s structure is pretty well defined in the LN. Besides, a monarch is MUCH different than a chairman – both in terms of absolute power and term of office. The organization is the League of Freedom Towns Eastal which is very similar to round table. Lord Cowen is a duke, NOT a king, emperor or even president or prime minister. He holds NO authority over the other lords except what influence may be derived from his social standing as a Duke. He can NOT order any of the lords to do something in the same way Krusty can’t order around any other guild outside of his own. His power outside of his own territory is one of influence, not authority. That’s it.
The government structure isn’t really relevant to issue at hand anyway. The facts are simple. You have a dire situation in which at best the lords might be able to overcome with severe losses… the first time. This is NOT the entire army under the goblin king’s control. To deny adventurers help goes back to the situation after the 1st World Fracture in which PotL were pushed so close to the brink of annihilation that they made a last ditch effort – the 2nd World Fracture which brought (in theory) adventurers to save the day.
Is their reluctance to ask for help “realistic”? Yes, I agree with you on that. The problem is WHY they are reluctant – they don’t want to admit their own weakness/be in the adventurers debt (i.e. pride and greed). Those certainly are “realistic” motivating factors. However, they don’t have any other viable option, something so obvious that even a 15 year old “lazy, cowardly”, and politically naive girl can understand which is why I consider their actions stupid.
In regards to the aristocratic structure point: The precise aristocratic structure is unknown.
It has been discussed in the LN but I doubt they’ll ever present it in animated form. For the sake of discussion, here’s the info from LH wiki:
Show Spoiler ▼
In summary, the League of Eastal was created as an alliances between the lords. In the past they did serve a king, but it seems that is no longer the case. So, I would expect the situation like King John is unlikely to happen to Duke Corwen. The rest of the lords might demote Corwen from the position of Chairman due to Lenessia’s action, but as I said in my previous post, the impact will probably be minimal to the Corwen family since they will still be the ruler of Maihama.
I think you guys are down-playing the fact that in real life, asking for military aid (especially back in the day) often comes with SEVERE concessions and drawbacks. The nation requesting aid may be asked to give up lands, resources, or various other forms of power, such as future negotiating power. Asking for help in war is NOT a simple question of pride or not. There are very real consequences.
The adventurers, being in reality just video game players, probably wouldn’t have done any of this, but the Lords don’t know that the Adventurers aren’t actually hard-nosed politicians, especially since they make such a good show of it.
Lenessia’s idea is actually great on two fronts (and I doubt she’s even aware of it). 1. it’s respectful and will help build a better relationship. And 2. She is basically an independent citizen going to ask for volunteers. She took the governments out of the question, which means they don’t have to worry about any of that crap. If the adventurers want to help, they’ll help. If they don’t, they won’t. Simple as that.
Another problem is that Adventurers do not know what they want. If they ask for some reward from the nobles, the terms could be negotiate. Yet themselves don’t know what they want or what would be useful to them.
They never determined their bottom line prior to the meeting. And they somewhat want to avoid deals be made until they figure out what their bottom line can/should be.
Love the episode: its the calm before the storm. Raynesia was really determined to help them. Funny how its always the joke characters that always ends up saving the situation from time to time.
How many volumes of Log Horizon will the anime cover?
Volume 5.
Show Spoiler ▼
Show Spoiler ▼
@Anon
Show Spoiler ▼
the anime is currently on the fourth of seven published so far
And to support Netto’s claim, they’re pretty much spot on the mark of 1 episode per chapter, 5 chapters per volume, 25 episodes = 25 chapters = 5 volumes. So as far as I can tell they really intend to put 5 entire volumes in, which in my opinion means a great temporal ending.
Not going to lie, the way those nobles acted kinda made me wish Delicious was there to really show how lucky they are that they get the amicable adventurers.
*Demikas
*Demigrass
A few things I like to touch upon as a novel fan on this episode:
Stuffs happened in the novel that the anime didn’t happen or not yet.
About the part Minori talking with Naotsugu, Show Spoiler ▼
Stuffs happened in the novel that the anime hopefully didn’t cut & only delay to the next episode.
& in my point of view, either the sub are not good enough or the anime didn’t translate well of Minori’s full plan. Show Spoiler ▼
One thing I like about the conference is that Duke Sergead clapped his hand to silence the crowds so his granddaughter can speak her mind & more importantly plainly shows his support & trust at the princess.
In the novel, the clapping was done by Shiroe & its a form of stunning magic so all the Landers freezed in place rather than willingly listen to what the Princess reason to expose the secret regarding the Knights of Izumo. The crowds resume their yelling & scolding the moment Shiroe de-spell.
Crusty & gang can almost consider running away with the Griffins in the novel, rather then that the anime shows the group left with the (possible) plainly but not willingly blessings from the Landers.
In the novel, Duke Sergead despite being clearly happy of what Lenessia manage & proud of what she willing to do he never really shows his support to her in any real way. I always had a crunch of that. So I am glad that the anime change that bit.
…although that way the anime did cut away a bit of Shiroe’s badassary.
in the novel i can feel the climax building from Lenessia entering the room up to “being rushed” to take on the Griffon. The Griffon calling scene should be the most badass scene T_T (coz it happens so quick that makes you amazed)
IMO, they cut a lot of best stuff T_T. Seem to me it might not have been just budget issues, more of being overly cautious with what scenes they want (and do not want) in the show. I expect it to get worst in the later episodes, and if it does go beyond this season, I suspect it will get worst as the later novel volumes do cover stuff that can be considered even more controversial.
I cannot really fault the Lords of Eastal for behaving they way they have, they have the responsibility of defending their cities and as far as they know cannot rely on the adventurers or the knights of Izumo to bail them out.
It is not a savory thought but if they have to rely on themselves then potentially sacrificing a city would lead to the fewest deaths, and one way or another many people of the land would die.
Yes…and then no. They don’t have to ask the adventurers for a bailout, but they should set up an accord between them. It’s the difference between charity and a job – they should not seek charity from the adventurers, but they should employ them in whatever way they can. Then their relationships will be equal again.
It’s kind of like giving them a quest! Seems like something they would do ; )
If the adventurers were taking quests then there would not be a goblin invasion issue in the first place.
A princess showing up and asking for help against a goblin invasion sounds a lot like a quest to me.
The lords definitely forgot civility. They are also no diplomats. They’re pretty one dimensional ruthless self interest and seething hostility. The best characters have stab you in the front while whispering sweet nothings in a silver tongue. These guys don’t even try, and are used to setup the princess as the one who shows respect.
I have zero respect for the lords, and neither was I intended to. They’re flat.
Well, when they want to defend themselves, with sacrificing a City. Why the Attack the Adventures of the Pride to defend the Country?
There is the flaw. Defend “our” country will ya, it is your “outsiders” Duty and Honor
First, they dont wanted the Adventures to interfere. Then they Try to Force them as Cannonfooder. “You are Immortal, you Respawn!”
There was many Flaws in this Scene, just Watch it again, with calmer heart
in short an RL Example:
“Help us. Help us ‘merica (Insert Nato,Uno or Russia Pact), your Duty is to Help us. Here are People Dying!, because we dont wanted Outsiders Help”
I agree. And of course, it does not necessarily mean all parties to the pact are going to benefit from such a pact either, if they do go around making one. It seems to me there’s a lot of ‘giving’ on the part of the adventurers and a lot of ‘receiving’ on the part of the people of the land.
Well, the Nato and Russian Pact, are “leftovers” from the Cold War time. Today seeking a new Goal to give them a Reason to Exist. Something like a “Attack UNO”? Even African is about to build their own UNO.
But enough RL. I dont want to drift in that corner, please. I wanna Enjoy the Anime
Michitaka doing old school heavy handed politics…. literally …. that moment is so freaking priceless!
Khruschev thumping fist at the pulpit at the UN would be proud…
Nota Bene, the reluctant and mistrustful allies brought together by common threat look much like WW2 ones…
we compare things what we see, with things we know of the Past or Present.
Honestly, Michitaka has officially gained my respect in this episode. I loved how badass he can be when it comes to politics.
For a minute there, I thought Minori started to shoot lasers from her eyes.
Dem delicious politics.
I really enjoyed this episode, because it not only provided believable political conflicts that served to flesh out the world, but really gave the limelight to a lot of characters. On one hand the noobies, who are really starting to come into their own and are growing quite magnificently. And then, on the other, the people around the Round Table (bonus points for Michitaka for looking like a badass) and of course, princess Lenessia. Every single scene with her was building up to this (and the speech next ep, I’m guessing) and it certainly didn’t dissapoint. That was a crowning moment of awesome right there. A good way of defusing the situation while also making every side happy (the nobles, the adventurers and of course the people who’d get killed by the goblins). Her and Krusty make as much of a fun team as Shirou and Akatsuki are too.
And yeah, in real politics, nations can often act like spoiled brats fighting over a toy. I remember Holland and Russia’s spat over some arrested diplomat last year – their actions towards each other following that were just so petty and stupid. It was kind of embarassing to watch, really. I remember that kind of stuff popping up in games like Papers, Please! too. Though idealists generally don’t always fare well in our own societies and I’m a cynic by nature, I’m still totally throwing my support behind Lenessia because of it. Ah, the benefits of escapism.
Now let’s see whether her speech will be as good as Maoyuu’s one.
Idealists may have a rough time of it sometimes, but trust me, optimists get a lot farther than cynics. After all, when you think you won’t succeed you won’t try, ne? But the optimist thinks she will, and even if she’s usually wrong, sometimes she won’t be…
That’s what I tell myself everytime I buy a lottery ticket ^^
Seriously though, you might as aim for the moon if you know that you’ll fall short of your ideals
Optimism, Cynicism, the only attitude that matters is results driven. Did you change the world? Affect peoples lives? I’ve played my part in humanitarian efforts with little regret there.
Optimism can drive people to their deaths, suffering and slavery (human trafficking cons) as much as Cynicism drives them away from ‘better lives’. The attitude is less important than what actually happens. Skill & resourcefulness trumps attitude.
Sadly resourcefulness and skill aren’t always abundant so tragedies happen.
There’s a saying in politics. “Don’t let the perfect blind you from the good.”
Some people suck. This is as true of politicians as it is of everyone else. Some are evil, some are lazy, some are corrupt. But not all. The danger is politicians are in a constant quiet war between those who do suck for whatever reason and those who are trying to actually do some good but have to also try and stop the sucky ones from creating too many problems.
If you think about it, Lenessia’s approach is pretty much what happens in MMORPGs.
1: Something happens
2: NPC asks for help(Quest)
3: Individual players accept the quest on their own
That very same approach fits with what they said. Akiba’s adventurers aren’t “knights”, there aren’t any army protecting Akiba. If Akiba is under attack, an adventurer may decide to escape, another may want to stay and fight.
An exception is:
4. in MMORPG, u get reward when completing such quest..
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%20-%2017%20-%20Large%2025.jpg
Isn’t that Dr. Eggman? After losing weight?
@Stilts: Call me a cynic (realist?), but considering that you have a very attractive girl desperately pleading for help to a bunch of young guys (OK not all, but mostly) who’s hobby is playing a game which sometimes involves rescuing/helping a “damsel in distress”, I have to rate her chances of success as quite high.
Meh. Meant to post this as a reply to Stilts’ reply to Dvalinn’s post above concerning Raynesia. OT: RC – any news on an post/comment edit feature yet?
ahahah i agree, the adventurers almost all consist of hard core RPG gamers and with a beauty like Lennesia coming to their hideout asking for help … who will say no ?
The Non-Combat Players 🙂 Aka Builders and Crafters and such 🙂
nah … i think they will still help … well maybe the Non-combat players won’t (but i guess some of this non-combat players are also crafters or builders)
in war or a large scale combat i think tech support and supplies play a major role
crafters create potions and consumables necessary for long winded battles
builders create a mean of transportation making the battle more efficient for their side (the ocypete anyone ? i think that will play a major role against those sahuagins or whatever they are called)
@Germanguy
ahaha sorry i didn’t see that “AKA”
sorry if my reply is kinda misleading
The Different between Mahou and Log Horizon here is..
in Mahou, she is a Noble woman. She is in the Focus of the simple Peasants.
In Log Horizon only this Old Man Round Table and “Grandfather” (i bet here was the most Fear) where watching her
So, if in Mahou she would shake of Fear or Nervous, the same effect would not work. There is Times, you had to forcible calm your Body of trembling in fear, to Lead. Of Course if all eyes are off you, then nobody see you crying
As you see, sometimes it is how Many Eyes are on you. to play the Mask or not
Well if we put the culture in context, Lenessia is the FIRST WOMAN to “intrude” into noble MAN meeting. That can induce “Fear/Anxiety” and therefore need “Resolve” to bear the consequences. What we see here when Lenessia coming into that meeting is like Obama stands up as the President of USA. In this case, i think the atmosphere should have been the same with what happen in Maou hence it increases the gravity of her speech (>> hence it needs to be dramatic or climatic)
Do you Guys see it? This small Path of Light and Darkness?
No?
Imagine the Request of “Freedom Fighters” in a Dark way. To Hunt the “Heretics” out of the Country (not invaders, Religion Heretics)
Important is that, how you walk the Path. Here it is the Light. If you go and put Salt on the Message here, you will get many Sides of a Coin. But it is upon on you, what Path you Walk.
/Offtopic end
As long as it isn’t them who’s sacrificed, they’ll protect their pride. I was kind of disappointed on the king as well as I thought he was wise but it seems like Lenessia is the wisest of them all.
True. That’s why the lord of Tsukuba was a looot more willing to ask – well, demand, but he was also in a bit of emotional turmoil at the time – the adventurers to help. Eventually he probably would have broken down and pleaded with them if needed. Lenessia just prevented that.
This is one of the things I absolutely love about this show. If you imagine an MMO, or really any action game, from the point of the NPCs, players must seem like the most absolutely insane, violent, cruel, vulgar beings in the world.
The weird thing about the Apocalypse I think for the Landers is not that the Adventurers went crazy bad, it’s that they became more REASONABLE, and that was weird after hundreds of years of accepting them as basically beasts.
Crap, wrong spot, this is supposed to be a response to the post just below this one.
I think a lot of you are being to hard on the Lords. It is not really pride that is keeping them from asking for help as much as it is fear. And it is a reasonable fear. Adventurers are immortal, superpowered, homicidal maniacs with a lust for killing so strong that they will line up and wait just to get the chance to kill stuff. They are much more dangerous then the goblins in the long term.Of course they are terrifying.
Before they could be counted on to run on their rails and chase their loot and leave the real people alone. But now they have all gone insane or gone sane or something and the only force in the world that could stand against them has vanished.The Lords have every reason to not want to appear weak in front of them. Keep in mind that they also have reports from the other Adventurer cities I am sure and we know that one of them at least is doing very badly.
That’s a very good point. We tend to have a skewed view because we identify with the adventurers more than the landers, but they ARE kill-happy sonsofbitches…or were, at least. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t still try to deal with them as they once did – I mean, they should at least ask the question! – but the fear is understandable.
Though I see where you’re coming from, the amount of mistrust and the little political games they tried to play left me little to no sympathy for the lords. Not to mention their god damn sense of entitlement (that some of them have shown us).
Woah, nice post there Stilts, it helped me appreciate this episode on much a more deeper (political) level. The only thing that came into my mind after finishing this is that they transformed the princess into a walking quest giver, and Krusty here is dragging her to Akiba for everyone to click on. >< I wanna see if they will announce the "death penalty" to anyone joining this quest.
I’d click Raynesia/Lenessia, if you know what I mean.
Thank you : ) Glad to have helped out a bit!
Ugh i’m sorry but i still can’t stand it when they switch the focus over to the kids. Honestly i expected this episode to let them shine more considering the cliffhanger from last episode but once again they really don’t do anything that spectacular. Just took down a couple goblins got a little stronger………bleh. I’m sensing that something is going to go wrong with their little operation though. Things are just going TOO well for them. Considering how optimistic they are it’s likely it’s going to get shot down soon. That’s just my guess though.
Oh and Crusty x Lenessia better freaking happen!
I think the problem about Minori’s group in this episode is the lack amount of action scenes. Maybe to save budget and time. Some of the Minori and Naotsugu’s actions got cut or altered (Touya using a bow to lure the goblins, Isuzu takes turn to monitor the battlefield while Minori fights with a map to determine their next route and coordinating with Naotsugu’s team). To be honest I’m a bit dissapointed because I want to see Nyanta and Shouryuu’s combo in their guerilla war. Not just some light effects from faraway.
Well,the star in this episode is Lennesia. So it’s natural that she’s become the main focus, not the kids. I love the (chaotic) negotiation part and Lennesia’s intervention.
@Felice Maybe to save budget and time.
FWIW, I was fine with the overall presentation this episode though it did seem a bit “compact” at times. At any rate, I think you hit the mark here, particularly with the first point – time. Initially, I thought that the show would cover the first four volumes of the LN, but the pace is too fast for that so it seems pretty clear that LN volume 5 will be covered as well. Either that or anime only material. Too far along in volume 04 to spread out among seven episodes.
Whether that turns out to be a good idea or not remains to be seen. From the comments about cutting this and that from the LN, or not explaining xyz sufficiently, my initial thought is that the show would have been better off ending with the end of volume 04 (which is my preference) and using the extra time to address those issues. Frankly, IMO ending with volume 04 provides a cleaner break as well compared to volume 05.
I agree i thought that with last ep last moments they were at least gonna get some badassery points but nah … just normal … just like what they did on the dungeon run just a bit better
and with everything going well … extremely too well … something is bound to happen and with that opening theme i sense a death flag or if not, a near death flag
and i want that shocking feeling like what i get from the last seconds of strike the blood’s latest episode
No one noticed Naotsugu has enough charisma to become a great leader.
There’s no doubt that Naotsugu can become a great leader, but it seems that he prefer to become adviser to his friends.
In this arc he plays his role very well : as the camp trainer, he gives verbal support to Marielle (his superior at the moment) who is distressed because of Goblin and Sahuagin attack. He also listens to Minori’s plan and shaping the rough plan into action by become the main attack force and provide the consumable items to the newbies because he thinks that it is necessary and the plan have a decent success rate (although the result is not yet to be seen).
Evacuating the town residents is one of the option. But there’s possibility that they run into the goblins in the process. If they got surrounded by the goblins in the middle of evacuating, it’ll be a hard battle. Especially for the newbs because they must protect the resident directly.
Let’s not forgetting about Naotsugu’s most important role in this episode : He became a bridge between Marielle’s indecisiveness and his junior’s determination to protect Choushi Town by negotiating the plan with Marielle and get her to agree (maybe halfheartedly…). Naotsugu is fully aware about the heavy political risk and responsibility because the training camp is one of the Round Table’s agenda, but he choose to move forward and support Minori’s guerilla plan.
Like Crusty Said, “If you actually there, seeing it, you naturally wouldn’t want to just
ignore it”. So it’s natural that Naotsugu can’t let his junior members fight the Goblins (and endanger themselves) without necessary support and polished strategy. Minori may have a talent as a strategist, but she don’t have enough experience and manpower to execute her plan to the fullest. With his action as a respected camp leader and a trusted comrade,he can help his juniors and put Marielle at ease for the meantime.
I think most of the debauchery tea party members have a talent and charisma to become a leader. But not all of them enjoy the spotlight and choose to support (or manipulating) the others from the backstage :).
Something, I think would be fun for RC Log Horizon fans: “The Log Horizon make your own party” post.
Basically, what class/subclass would you pick, who would you want in your party (up to five others), and why (optional). Ignore levels and guilds. So if you want 5 people from five different guilds in your party, that’s fine. Also no reason why you can’t make your own party entirely rather than pick characters from the series if you want (*envisions Stilts’ all nuker party*).
Format is name/character, class – subclass. Can also add race if you want along with comments at the end.
My party ended up being the “shipping party” somehow. O.o
1) Me/PC: Swashbuckler – Either Blacksmith, Swordsmith, Berserker and/or Sword Saint (it’s a title). Race = Wolf Fang.
2) Naotsugu: Guardian – Border Patrol
3) Akatsuki: Assassin – Tracker
4) Mari-nee: Cleric – Woodcrafter
5) Shiroe: Enchanter – Scribe
6) Rieze or some other female: Sorcerer – ???
Comments:
– Me/PC: Dual wield + DPS = I’m in for Swashbuckler (if I could only dual/multiclass w/ Assassin… ^^). Undecided on subclass since there’s not enough information on them for me to pick one. Played Berserker characters a lot so a natural fit. Still, Blacksmith or Swordsmith is cool b/c I could make my own hax weapons :D. Swords Saint is a title so not sure if you can have that on top of another subclass as well. Race = Wolf Fang since it fits well with the class.
– Naotsugu: Need a tank and he’s my 1st choice. Lots of HQ Guardians in the game (Krusty & Isaac for example), but Nao’s one of the best as well even if he doesn’t have quite as good of equipment as the other two. Plus, I like the guy – he’s easy going (good for party harmony) and fun to be around. Finally, Nao already has very good synergy w/ Shiroe.
– Akatsuki: Definitely want an HQ Assassin for scouting as well as one-shot potential. Can’t think of anyone else I’d rather have for that role. Added bonus = already used to working with Nao and Shiroe. Downside = *must… resist… urge… to pat head*
– Mari-nee: Need a healer and she’s another easy-going, fun to be around type. Tendency to glomp a plus IMO XD.
– Shiroe: Should be self-explanatory why – the guy’s got mad skills. Also, I like to have good buff/debuff capabilities in my party.
– Rieze or some other Sorcerer-chan: With the above five, I’m lacking in long range damage ability so I need a good nuker to balance things out. Female because the other four (in theory = NO spoiler) are paired up, and I don’t want to be left out. LOL
Overall, while pretty much a “classic” party composition, I think it’s well balanced and able to handle about any situation. Should also be a fun group to hang out with.
Looking forward to seeing others characters and party compositions. Hope people have fun with this.
I’ve never been able to decide what class I would want to play in Elder Tales. I tend to lean towards off tank/hybrid DPS roles in games but I have no interest in rogues/scouts of any kind (for myself). That has me leaning towards monk or samurai I think. They seem closest.
Otherwise I go pure DPS caster, so sorcerer could be fun, but they haven’t shown much about sorcerers. And it’s the subclasses I’m more interested in since it seems like that’s where you get your real build diversity in this game.
As for a party? Basically Log Horizon plus a healer. Akatsuki and Nao are perfect as main tank and main DPS obviously, with Shiroe as support. You add myself as a second dps/tank and then a healer (maybe Marie) and you’ve got a pretty good party.
Thanks for the reply. Sorcerer does see like a fun class in this system. At least, Rudy seems to be having fun… most of the time. LH trio of Shiroe, Akatsuki and Nao do make for a solid party foundation. I was curious as to whether some people would prefer Krusty (or Isaac) to Nao, or any of the other characters we’ve scene so far to the original LH crew. Guess not.
Another class that seems kind of fun is the Summoner class. Summoned creatures might be an viable alternative to a 2nd melee DPS. Hard to say for sure without more info.
This anime gives me the chills everytime the intro of the ending song starts playing.
tohya should really invest in a long range weapon for pulls, even a slingshot will suffice. face pulling is a crime.
someone mentioned already that Tohya used a bow during parts of the goblin fight in the LN, which was cut from the episode. oh well )=
Even if Touya facepulling the Goblin, there are many alternatives for the newbs teamwork to shine : Minori can put a damage intercept magic to protect Tohya. So even if Tohya got whacked by the goblin, a shiny barrier will protect him and minimize HP loss :D.
It’s Kannagi’s job to protect and prevent damage to his/her comrade in the first place.
When it’s reaaaly necessary, even Minori can go offensive. Kannagi can equip bows, too. Tohya can attack and draw aggro to himself in the right distance before the Goblins get Minori. Serara’s skill as a druid is a great help in this battle because she can using the power of nature to subdue the goblins. For now, they have only one DPS so I think that learning various battle tactics is in order for the newbs because they still have many battles ahead :D.
I object to the assertion that facepulling is a crime! I’ll have you know I facepulled in many an MMO, often as a DPS caster or a healer or a rogue or pretty much any class by the ones that should be pulling ^^ Nothing like the mage getting tired of your shit and pulling himself to get the party moving.
That always depends on relative strength of the party vs encounter doesn’t it? If its established you can steamroll, you probably didn’t need a ‘tank’ anyway. Warriors, put your DPS gear on.
I think I should point out that the Eastal lords are acting much like many feudal lords have. They are not worried so much about “lives” as “assets”. We as modern, educated, people project our own sense of morality and ethics onto these lords and judge their actions thus. Besides Lenessia’s youthful naivete and her fathers seemingly sincere concern for his people, nothing the lords have done has been for the good of the peasants.
Eastal is a confederation of city-states, thus there is a never ending internal power struggle. If one city has to be sacrificed, not only will that help end the goblin threat, but also upset the balance of power within the council.
Also I can imagine that appearing weak, in-front of what appears to be an army of immortal demigods, might give them some sleepless nights.
Anyway what we see as “common sense” is really no such thing. To their setting and culture, what the lords are doing is “common sense”.
lv 12 lol that’s why i hate MMORPG , if you are 10 lv lower you have no chance, but i guesse that’s what party are for!
Quick Summary for Episode 18 from me.
Princess Lenessia = Jean D’Arc
Thats all 🙂