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「形而上のネクローシス」 (Keijijō no Nekurōshisu)
“Metaphysical Necrosis”
So there’s a couple of changes in my preconceptions on the plot that were changed this episode. Continuing from the last post, the direction of the plot that played out wasn’t something I anticipated this soon. I thought they were going to get captured for a little while, and then they had to break out in order to travel back in time to change things, but thanks to Suzuha actually running away to turn on the lifter downstairs so that they could time travel to change things (clever girl), we can skip the middle man.
And so, just like that, Mayuri’s back in the picture, and ironically despite her death, is now more prominent to the story than ever. She even gets some more background development, but I think it was still largely more important of a development for Okabe than Mayuri. The hostage metaphor was explained, and even the mad scientist cover was apparently all for Mayuri, which goes to show how deep of an affection Okabe has for her. This does kill another one of my assumption that Okarin created the persona as a coping mechanism from his parents, but it’s not completely ruled out that there may be some relation still. Also, young Okarin looks dashingly handsome, which made that hug in the rain like a scene out of some romance.
Going back in time over and over again to save Mayuri was not completely unexpected, and even though we’re finally seeing “time travel” being used for a purpose other than experimentation, the reason of usage isn’t that special (Madoka, Haruhi). It’s not a complaint, but having seen other series do it when they’re not even time travel shows, I’m hoping for some more unique reasons in the show that is finally all about time travel.
When he first traveled back, I had figured he was still in the same world line, but then came the question, is this going to be Back to the Future style or you can’t change fate style? Because if it were neither, it would be a paradox. Being the absolutely amazing show S;G already is, they of course avoided the paradox and went with fate. Okarin can travel backwards in time, but he can’t change what happens. You can’t change the past. It will always fix itself. Hence Mayuri continuing to die over and over, which must’ve been terrible for Okabe, and even got little Nae involved!
I don’t know how long Okabe will go on doing this, but knowing S;G, it will probably only last half an episode more before he succeeds or switches it up (another good thing about the writing). My solution? Go back in time, then shift world lines to one where she doesn’t die. Pretty simple. Okabe should think of it soon…
Guardian Enzo will pick up S;G beginning next week. Out of all the shows I’m blogging, I will miss doing this one the most.
I thought the last episode pissed me off. This pissed me off about 3 times more.
+1
Mayuri’s death count: 3
Makise’s death count: 2
Suzuha: 0
Daru: 0
Nae: 0
Mr. Braun: 0
John Titor: 0
Ruka: 0
Moeka: 0
Okarin: 0
Of course, he is zero. It would be the end if he died. Maybe at least 1 for Moeka, B*tch deserve it…
Lol, B*tc- I mean, Shinning Finger had to kill her twice
That bitch Moeka more than deserves to die at least once! I dont give a damn if she’s brainwashed or not, kill her Okabe! I love how he said he wont forgive her! I hope that once he realizes he cant save Mayuri by just escaping, that he would go truly MAD SCIENTIST on SERN and DESTROY THEM ALL!
This episode has made me rage so much. Oh my God. It’s like Homura x Madoka all over again!
kiiragi’s final post for S;G 🙁
i think mayuri cant be saved this time. her death is already “HITSUZEN”
Like always, my predictions came true. I hate being right and seeing her dies over and over with each death more horrible than the last.
First, she was shot in the head.
Second, she was ran over by a car.
Third, she was ran over by a train. GOD, that one must hurt.
I wonder how long Okarin can keep this up? Each Mayuri’s death is killing him bit by bit….
in other hand he will get used to it and won’t be chocked anymore
So the more Okarin time leaps, the more gruesome Mayuri’s death will be? XD
@Jing, It appear to be so. It is also different every time. So this will be like watching “A 1,000 Ways to Die” for Mayuri.
@Kratos: i dont think after witnessing Mayuri’s death time and time again, will make Okabe immune to it and not feel shocked at all. I certainly would, if that happens to my childhood friend like that, especially after we saw Okabe’s awesome reminiscing of the past! When he forcefully made Mayuri his “hostage” to give her some sort of purpose to still live on and it’s probably his odd way of saying he wants her to be with him. Instead of not feeling shocked about it, I think he will get more and more pissed off till he would go insane enough to kill Moeka and SERN (those people that would endanger Mayuri and his friends).
Great episode and great series so far.
One thing that got me frustrated was the fact that Okabe doesn’t confide in his friends (the other lab members). 3 hours are more than enough to explain the situation and work together. Instead he gets all emotional and starts running around. Especially after seeing how awesome Suzuha (part-time warrior) is, why didn’t he at least ask her for help? He really needs to start thinking more or asking others for help.
I totally agree. I was screaming “for gods sake tell the others so they can help you”! I also thought maybe he does not want to tell them because:
A. He doesn’t want them involved further. He wants them to just go away and live.
or
B. He isn’t sure if any of the others are ALSO with SERN.
Either he was really concerned about keeping mayuri alive and had no time to explain and go like what part time soldier did.
Or Okarin may have thought that the room was bugged and explaining things would just have sped up the process.
He was mainly focused on Mayuri and didn’t care about the rest, but had enough sense to warned them indirectly. He is acting on pure emotions, especially fear and panic.
Despite as he try, Makise see through him every time and ask what is going on. She can sense his thought and aware that something is wrong, thus she called him every time.
I don’t think Krishi can read him, he always acts weird suddenly, i think it has to do with the fact that he doesn’t understand what is happening and can only trust himself. Remember he was warned already that she was a spy for SERN!
but i think it coz Okabe always there with Mayuri, that make her death. that what i tought so. maybe actually the real problem is in Okabe. there one scene on past episode, where okabe have like a dream, which Mayuri always do time travel too, to find the real okabe. I think to solve where Mayuri to not having die is to make him not close with Mayuri. that’s maybe that will really happen on the next happen, but ofcourse that’s only one of conlusion i got, from all episode. but maybe produser have another conlusion, which make me want to watch next episode. There still so many Question on my head. i hope they can close with good ending. coz so far i like this anime.
If you have questions, just ask. The answer will come to you (Law of Attraction).
As for Mayuri, there are two ways to view this: Okarin is causing her death or she is simply fated to die no matter what (aka Final Destination). You stated the former. The problem with that theory is if you notice the time of death of Mayuri on 1, 2, and 3, you will see that while each time she dies, she actually dies later.
Her first death was 6:34 PM. Her third death was at 19:59 (7:59 PM). By taking Mayuri to the subway, he extended her life by 1 1/2 hour. So to say that he failed isn’t too true. He did extend her life span.
The latter theory is make more sense thinking she is fated to die ragardless of whatever happen (as Kiiragi and I pointed out). At this point, death has she on his death list and there is no changing it…
that’s also one of theory, i’m just curious from past episode which there scene where mayuri also time travel finding Okabe. ofcourse it depend the produser what kind ending in the present, i’m just give a hypotesis from what i see.
awwww… poor Mayushi!
Feels like Hinamizawa summer of ’83…
So Suzuha is really a soldier… she dispatched mooks’r’us in no time and managed to stall Killing Finger long enough to allow Okarin to send his memory into past.
Anyone who accused her of cowardice here, you may now bow and apologise!
Unfortunately no matter what Okarin does, it seems all in vain. Twice!
After tons of Okarin x Kurisu(tina) flags, we have episode dedicated all to Mayushi (and flags with her).
Who is ready to create automatic phone service with Mayushi’s Tut-turu message? I guess it should be quite profitable…
This has officially become my fave show of the season, finally overtaking Hanasaku Iroha. After many episodes of steady buildup, the quake hit. Saint Homura, patron of timetravellers, pray for Okarin! Death to FB, whoever/whatever it is!
Thinking of making a “Tuturu” android app for my next project. Wish me luck.
I want
Send me a copy…LOL
I’m good with a ringtone.
u guys need to give me your email if u want me to send anything. @ acolyte: that would be easy enough. Whats your phone model so i can integrate it in a theme.
I always thought Mayuri and Okarin were a kinda couple. I was never a shipper for the other ladies in the show. They seriously have a long history together. It would be tough for Mayuri to have one of the new girls in his life steal him away from her. Unless she truly thinks of him as her brother and not a romantic interest. But I doubt that.
In the end, it s either going to be Makise or Mayuri…
Makise is a much better woman on all aspects (except for boob size, lol) but I admit that the moments between Okarin and Mayushii in this episode were so sweet that I almost changed ship.
Me! I was guilty as charged. Nice to know that I was wrong about Suzuha. Can’t say the same for Moeka. Suzuha is back on my badass list, especially this scene:
https://randomc.net/image/Steins%20Gate/Steins%20Gate%20-%2013%20-%20Large%2004.jpg
(Mexican Stand-off)
Of course, I kinda sense she was their only hope of breaking free. That or Okarin going berserk, but he still too weak at this point.
He should just send a D-mail back in time, and that would change the timeline.
Except that d-mail is a very uncontrolled method of doing that and inefficient.
One could send himself a message to not eat breakfast this morning and that could lead through certain chain of probabilities, to alien invasion.
Read up on Chaos Theory. The smallest change in the system can alter the entire system. Time-Leap is more direct and controlled way of altering the system, because you have more control over the changing-factor than through unpredictability sending information.
‘One could send himself a message to not eat breakfast this morning and that could lead through certain chain of probabilities, to alien invasion.’,
I LoL’ed at that.
Nice one.
+1
At that point where Moeka is shooting everybody, they didn’t have much time to waiting 120 seconds. Time leap was the faster method, plus it is already setup.
Another problem is D-mail caused butterfly effect and too random to control.
Third, Okarin just panicked and didn’t think things through. I doubt he will even after a few more Mayuri’s death until he finally realize she can’t be saved on THIS timeline. I figure he will try a double time leap or even a triple to buy more time to plan it out and save Mayuri.
Well,
“Wait, a minute, I got all the time I want! I got a time machine!” – Marty Mcfly
Wake up Okarin!!!
😉
Wrong…
You forget that there is no such things as a free lunch. Everything has it limits and a price tag. It is not present now, but I bet later on it is reveal that there is a price every time he used the time machine regardless of the method.
Is saving Mayuri a price too high for Okarin to pay? (That’s the real question…)
Expecting you to go out with a bang! but rather it ended with a whimper.
What do you mean? 🙁
I meant that you might add some surprises for your last post as a farewell parting gift of sorts. (Typing this review in third person comes to mind)
It’s not my last post, but.. I doubt I’ll do anything unique for the sake of doing so, heh.
Hell yeah, do that Kiiragi. Surprise us! If you gonna go, why not drop a nuke to for fun…LOL
Yeah, I was expecting the post to turn into fire-breathing truckasaurus too.
YOU JUST GOT SEKAI’D.
I guess I kinda felt a little bad for Mayuri, but I really felt for Okarin. That’s gotta be horrifying, seeing your childhood friend die constantly. But anyways, good job Suzuha. That was seriously one swish maneuver at the beggining.
OFT: I’ll miss your coverage on this show man.
Most blood and gore don’t faze me,
unless it’s Sekai that went crazy.
lol that would be awesome plz mail me when it’s done bankaiftw@yahoo.com 😀
Hope you’re talking about the app rather then my stupid poem. Be prepared to wait though. One-man app making is time consuming. Anyone who wants one feel free to leave your emails, at my site at “Tuturu post”. Might charge for it on the android market though.
I have an Omnia, got one for windows?
This is almost following exactly how the game would go:
Show Spoiler ▼
Just fucking stop posting direct spoiler already. >=(
You can always not read it! That’s why it’s in a spoiler tag. If you have the urge to read it then it’s not my fault. Plus, it’s only a possible resolution. They might still do something that’s different from the game.
have you try not clicking it?
I can’t believe I just read that :'(
Clearly he was going to tell us a huge spoiler (I already knew). If you don’t want to know spoilers then don’t click them. Thats why they are “SPOILERS”.
This is not how u do a spoiler. It’s okay for sum teasing n foreshadowing. But sumthing as MAJOR as this? Not funny at all. There’s sum1 doomed to click the spoiler(IT’S DESTINY!). Yes it’s their own fault, but u share sum responsibity as it’s u who bring up the spoiler in the 1st place. You just ruin the whole series for them. It’s not like they will thank u for that. More likes u set a trap n laugh whenever sum1 got spoiled. If a spoiler exists only simply to spoil n makes every1 upset, what’s the point of it?
P.S. Thanks for ur spoiler. You can’t spoil me.
Like everyone said, there is spoiler tag for a reason. You can just not click it if you don’t want to be spoiled. They use this to hide major spoiler while the minor one can be drop here and there without the tag.
Wow, quit whining. If you don’t have any self-control just admit it and stop blaming it on others.
And especially in this fuckin show dat’s solely driven by fuckin plot. Thanks.
Just don’t click it and then blame others because you clicked it. You WERE WARNED.
Wow, you fail at life.
watch episode 14 preview here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri8-CcKmewc
I will put spoiler on since many people haven’t watch this preview yet.
Show Spoiler ▼
@Cybersteel, he still has three posts left.
But still, “If its for the sake of forming precious memories…” – Yuusuke Yoshino
The infinite deaths of Tutturu
What’s the defination of “special” for the purpose of time travel? It’s THE insane mado scientisto HOUOUIN KYOUMA ur talking about. He deserves UTTER CHAOS. He’ll destroy the ruling structure of the very existence. He gets what he wants. And he gets his hostage. It’s the choice of Steins Gate. El Psy Congroo.
Okay enough with these Chunibyou jokes.
The face on Okabe when Mayuri got run over by the train is just priceless. You won’t get that in the VN ’cause ur in Okabe’s perspective. Simply epic.
The first and second death was SERN doing (a slap to each side of the face).
But the train was just F*ck Up. (A punch to the balls) When I saw it, I am thinking, dooes GOD hate Mayuri THAT much? As it would seem that it is not SERN doing, they were just tools to be used by fate to killed Mayuri. It is fate, who is your real enemy Okarin. Fate is one cruel b*tch!
Steins;Gate just become Final Destination…The Mayuri Chronicle.
Why don’t Okabe just stay away from Myushii?? and also, why don’t he use the D-mail and change/shift the world time lines??
If he doesn’t what his doing right now, its going to be all Madoka again…
Maybe knowing she is still dead in the timeline he left is not any better.
I think it’s a case of the future predicting the past (read that somewhere). Mayuri has already died in the future, so no matter what you do in the past you can’t change it, she will always die?
He can obviously change small things (like cancelling parties and changing where he goes) but maybe the major events like death can’t be changed.
he can change timelines to where she is alive, but she would still be dead in the timeline he left and that is sad.
You are assuming it is Okarin’s fault. Sure, Mayuri’s first death was his doing and maybe the second since he was the one messing about with time that got SERN attention.
But it is her third death that reveal the truth. SERN wasn’t involved yet she still died. At that point, you should realize it is fate doing, not SERN or Okarin. He was merely there to save her, but failed each time.
If you recall the scene of 70 millions years ago in ep 11, you can interpret as a metaphor. Since 70 millions years is where life begin on Earth, you can say that ever since the beginning of life, Mayuri was destined to die. Thus, she stated that no matter what happen it is fated. Her speech of other okarin and mayuri imply her final words to Okarin. It can be read as, “Even though I was destined to die since the beginning, I was happy I get to meet you and the time we spent together. Goodbye (She faded away)”
It was her final eulogy rather than Okarin’s dream or foreshadowing of the future…SAD!
But still being near to her, would only give fate even more tools to kill her .As he has SERN after him, he his just even more dangerous. He could at least try a leap without getting near her, and ask to someone unrelated to the lab to watch over her.
@Kratos, LOL!
Trust me, buddy. If Fate want you dead, you will be dead either way. If can lock Mayuri in a bank vault and somehow she will still died from a random asteriod from space, mysterious explosion, or volcano eruption. While escaping death is possible, but how do escape from Destiny?
You kick God’s ass !!!
This episode just lowered the worth of series thousand times.
ACcording to those who have read Visual Novel, time-leap does not change the worldline?
Congrats stein’s gate, you just invalidated your own use of D-Mail and allowed the impossible thing that is actual time travel.
The Data-compression hand-waving from last episode, one could forgive.
But time leap leading to SAME worldline is something that conflicts with the theories this show so far used to base the time-travel on.
Wait who said this is the same worldline ? The events that lead to Mayuri’s death are different, her death is pretty much the only thing that’s not changed.
And is time travel even so impossible anymore ? I mean, it’s painfully clear that Suzuha’s a time traveller, isn’t it ?
Fracking firefox crashed after I wrote 42 paragraph comment about this…..GRRR
Anyway… cliffnotes version:
read up on grandfather paradox.
ACcording to the time-trivel theory used by this show, you can’t travel to the same line’s past.
Suzuha is not traveling to the past, she is traveling to the alternate timeline’s past, which in terms of her point of view becomes main. The timeline one leaves from does NOT Have one aFracking firefox crashed after I wrote 42 paragraph comment about this…..GRRR
Anyway… cliffnotes version:
read up on grandfather paradox.
According to the time-travel theory used by this show, you can’t travel to the same line’s past.
However according to VN readers, its not the case with time-leap, which in terms is bullshit. YOU CAN’T travel to same timeline’s past, due to paradoxes that causes and for all intents and purposes time-leap SHOULD BE the same as D-MAIL Is – a data transfer to an alternate timeline. According to VN readers its not the same, hence plot-hole.
Wait… I’m not getting you. I explained in the post that time traveling with the “Time Leap” machine stays in the same word line. You keep saying “you can’t alter the same world line, it would be a problem”, and that’s true, and I also mentioned that they avoided the paradox by having Mayushi DIE multiple times because you can’t change the past…
It works fine along with the World Line theory. The world line only shifts when you send a D-mail apparently. Leaping back in time is basically just a live-action “replay” that you can modify, but can’t change the end result.
Because the time leap machine sends back memories, and not the body, perhaps that is why things are different? I don’t know, might as well wait for the show to explain things.
But the travelling into the past of same wordline alone causes paradox.
Okarin travels into his past self.
AS result past self does not do what Okarin did.
Thus Okarin could not have done anything or traveled into the past self.
Its the usual causality paradox.
The problem i see for this is the question of this
What changes the world line?
The many worlds theory is posited on the simple reasoning that all decisions by all creatures and all non-living probabilities create new world lines. If Okarin travels back along the same world line, the future should be changable.
Take for example a D-mail which changes the world line. Why? Because the action and roll down effects of that mail caused a new worldline to spawn. However Time leaping does the same thing except that the leaper has full control of the situation.
Unless the series is going for a “free choice vs determinism” thing, there should be a better explaination further on.
You can rage about what’s invalid after finishing the series, thank you very much.
Except that you CAN’T and SHOUL NOT be able to change the same timeline you are. Thats established by the theory so far used in the show.
Not to mention that Okarin should not have been able to travel back if its same timeline, because, due to causality paradox that would invalidate the need for him traveling back.
The only possible way is that he travels to identical but PARALEL world-line, that is not the same as his starting-point. However both the show and VN readers seem to imply thats not the case and that he actually travels to same line’s past, which is bullshit by the very theory Steins;Gate is using to base its storyline on.
You can’t just change between universal-order-in-chaos and multiverse theories at will. At quantum level ONLY ONE is possible and its existance invalidates the other.
Its like, Schrodinger’s cat is dead, however since I painted box green, he is actually alive at the same time.
Who said it’s the exact same timeline when sum1 time leap? See the different deaths of Mayuri? Just wait a few episodes, if not the entire series. If ur still in doubt, u can rant freely, thanks.
People who have actually read/played the entire VN seem to suggest that time-leap sends Okarin to same timeline, which is exactly why its bullshit.
If that is true, then it invalidates multiverse theory and causes plotholes due to paradoxes.
Its like:
Schrodinger’s cat situation. You do not know on if its alive or dead till you open the box.
If Cat is alive the box is painted green. (Allusion to perfect-order theory and possibility of travel in same timeline without being able to affect the outcomes)
If cat is dead, the box is painted black.(allusion to multiverse theory and impossibility of time-travel)
Just because you repaint black to green, Cat should NOT just come alive from that.
According to VN readers, it does…
I’m a VN reader, problem?
And if you can actually confirm that time-leap DOES indeed lead to another timeline instead of the same one(bassically that time-leap is same mechanics as dmail), then the show is still same good stuff.
Memory-compression thing can be handwaved and forgotten overall, despite its faults in logic, however same-timeline alterations make no sense at all, if that is the actual way Stein;Gate wants to go.
I approve.
If that’s not enough, sum certain char will explain it to ya in like, 3 episodes?
And it’s not like everything in S;G is explainable.
They got a motto when the VN has 1st released, “99% real science, 1% fantasy”.
@Unknown Voice: ? I have a bad memory, when was the theory that one can’t change the timeline he’s from established in S;G ?
And doesn’t the theory of “self-correcting world” make it possible, though ? You can travel to the past and do something to prevent what you don’t want to happen from happening in the future, but through a new sequence of events, the path of the world will correct itself to reach its predetermined milestones, and the thing that you don’t want to happen still happens, prompting you to time-travel. The events of that world are changeable, the milestones that they all lead to cannot. In the case at hand, Mayuri’s death is a milestone of this world that absolutely cannot be changed, and Okabe’s actions preceding her three deaths are three sequence of events that is played out each time to make sure no matter what he does, the evening of that day will be marked by Mayuri’s death. And because Mayuri always dies, Okabe never loses the reason to time-leap, and the causality paradox is avoided.
Actually, I get what Unknown Voice is trying to say here. If Okarin sends his memories back to himself in the same world line, then he escapes SERN and prevents them from killing Mayushi IN HIS APPARTMENT. If Mayushi isn’t killed in his appartment, then technically, he wouldn’t have used the time leap in the first place, and thus a paradox is created.
He only uses the time leap again to prevent Mayushi’s second death, not the first. The circumstances are different, thus the paradox is still created.
Addmitidly, I’m not very familiar with time travel, so what I’m saying could be wrong…
No I think you got that logic right, I see it now. The whole point is that when you time travel/time leap to change an event that will lead to undesirable ending X, once you succeed in changing it (the new event can still lead to undesirable ending X, though), the event that led to you time travelling/time leaping in the first place was changed and made the existence of your time travelling/time leaping paradoxical; isn’t it ? Which makes it contradict the self-correcting world theory, which disregards the exact cause and only cares for the eventual result. However, it seems to me that in S;G’s universe, the self-correcting world theory applies, not this paradox logic. 1) If applied, this paradox logic would cost us Okabe’s time leaps and make this show not even half as entertaining. 2) In the manga, it says that the self-correcting world theory DOES apply in S;G’s universe. Suzuha said so, I believe, although I’m not sure if that part of the manga is canon..
Had I not been spoiled about Mayuru’s repeated deaths I would not have been able to set my jaw back in place after this episode. But that face of Nae really unsettles me. Wonder if she isn’t a closet psychotic….
And whoever has known the plot of the game, please, don’t answer my question with a spoiler. Or with anything. I want to enjoy the slow torture and suspense of this anime to the fullest.
Aha little Nae… I won’t spoil u anything but just… keep an eye on her… =/
I know what you mean scary ain’t it?
Haha not really. That Nae, gotta love her. >=D
I’ve already been spoiled about Nae, my question is was this episode different than what happens in the novel?
(big spoiler below)
Show Spoiler ▼
Oh, you are gonna want to read this…
Show Spoiler ▼
poor Mayushii… 🙁
You know watching a suspense drama like this often will spawn spoiler to the show. Even if i don’t click the spoiler, sometime i can roughly guess what happen next when i read the reply of people that read the spoiler. Which is why i could guess the mayuri is going to die multiple time this episode. Now i’m wondering should i really continue reading blog as fast as possible or should i just wait for the show to finish before reading it?
id say read the blog, not the comments :p
thx for all kiiragi fantastic blogging of S;G
and even if mayuri dies tuturu will not!!!
epic – gran episodio, me alegra saber que no es el final y que aun nada esta escrito , pero cuantas veces okarin regresara al pasado a arreglar todo .
Show Spoiler ▼
Just wondering, when Mayuri was knocked down by Moeka’s car, wouldn’t Sern have captured Okarin at that point? How did he time leap again without Suzuha jumping in to save the day?
Thanks for blogging the show, Kiiragi. Your insightful analysis for Steins;Gate is what I look forward to the most every week as well.
Looking forward to reading your post next week, Guardian Enzo 😀
He most likely did another “take on me” sequence of running back to the lab.
I lol’d
Lmao great memory spark. I laughed so damn hard at that scene ^^.
I think stuff changes a little when he time leaps. Remember he doesn’t do things the same way, and I actually have a wild theory on that. SERN was still involved.
After Moeka runs Mayuri over, you can see that Okabe breaks free and runs back to the lab. Guess he’s lucky that Moeka’s lackeys are incompetent.
The reason is simple…
The show want to demonstrate the number of times Mayuri will died. It couldn’t care less about small logic like How did he escape? You missed the point, which is she was to died…again. And, Okarin to time leap again to watch her die…again. Get the message?
Hmm suddenly all the fanart with Homura and Okabe makes a whole lot more sense. Can’t imagine how its like to see people close to you die repeatedly.
Making a guess here, but it seems that most of the Mayuri death scenarios, direct or otherwise, are a result of involvement with the development of the time travel devices. All Okabe is doing is trying to avoid her death AFTER SERN has taken notice of them. So maybe the way to save her is stop their research altogether? I’m still not sure how this all ties up to the dead Makise back in episode one though.
In other words, you are suggesting Okarin should take a PROACTIVE approach rather than a REACTIVE approach to Mayuri’s death. I agreed.
Hence, he should inform the others and request their help. However, I don’t know how much more Okarin can take of Mayuri’s death. I bet a part of him dies with her each time. If you ever want to create a mad scientist, this is definitely the way to go. However, it seem that Okarin has not hit rock bottom yet. He still have a way to go. More pains and miseries await ahead…
It makes me wonder; different world lines equals alternate realities? Traveling back to the past in the same world line will not cause a shift to other world lines, but the outcome of Mayushii’s fate will not change. If Okabe used a D-mail to change world lines where Mayushii didn’t die that time, it’ll be like he’s abandoning the Mayushii he’s trying to save now, and settling to keep the Mayushii in another world line safe. If Multiple world lines each contain a Shiina Mayuri, and say their fate are all the same, will Okabe be okay with saving one Mayushii from imminent death, while all the other Mayushii die? And even if her death is thwarted, fate has a cruel way of sending a message…
LOL you are right. Probably another reason why he didn’t want to use the D-mail. In the end, it looks like he will use the D-mail as a last resort assuming all least attempt to save Mayuri failed. So the next few episode should be focus on the many trials and errors of Mayuri…”Groundhog Day” ring a bell?
Did anyone else laugh when mayushii went flying off the platform? How fast was that little girl moving? Or am i a terrible person?
It is YOU!
Steins; Gate continues to be awesome, though I must do some research to see what this Akemi Homura thing is about.
It’s amazing how they keep setting the mood right, and I found it in myself to start comparing the similarities and differences in these two time leaps.
Similarities:
-Kid with toy train and mother with comment. I found it a little funny that she said a bullet train is white, then we see Okabe zooming by in his white lab coat.
-Kurisu sensing something’s afoot. This is probably one of the most notable things in the episode and for later developments. I think she’s going to get involved as Okabe should soon realise he needs help and considering the hints given by the OP and ED, she’ll probably be heavily involved.
-Mayuri also wishing to know what’s going on. I think it’s quite the kick in the teeth for Okabe, since if he had mentioned the creepy stuff earlier, he might have avoided all this crap. Again, the underlying message is that Okabe ought to start trusting his comrades more and open up rather than try to shoulder everything by himself.
Differences:
-The way Mayuri dies. Of course it’s different, because Okabe tries something different in the two times.
Possible similarities:
-The very assumption that SERN was directly involved in ALL of Mayuri’s deaths. I’m completely unconvinced that Nae did it “by accident”. No child could have pushed a teenage girl that far forward without having an intention to do so. Conclusion? Nae – possibly working with SERN too, absurd as it sounds. Not to mention her expression looked creepy, and what better than a spy who can plant herself close to those involved? (e.g. Moeka)
-It might seem that Moeka isn’t doing this entirely out of her own conviction. Two slip-ups – One on repeating FB several times before shooting Mayuri, and the other on the slip of tongue on Okabe’s name.
Just my two cents. Not that I couldn’t care less about this show being “worth a thousand times less” because it doesn’t entirely comply to a person’s perceived right or wrong about theories being used, but I rather enjoy the show as it is. 😉
I’m surpised you didn’t mention her time of death, it was different, longer each time…
I believe it is hinting that preventing Mayuri is a feat next to impossible, but still slim and very, very difficult. I don’t see many people who goes up against Fate and win…
I hereby dub thee, Homura Kyouma.
You do know that Steins;Gate actually came first, and that the writer of Madoka is from the same company who made SG, right? Madoka was actually the series that took its time travel inspiration from Steins;Gate, not the other way around…
Little Okabe is quite handsome. It’s interesting to think that his whole mad scientist persona came from his desire to stay with Mayuri.
We’ll all miss your SG posts, Kiiragi.
Ahh, good info here.
But, did Higurashi come before S:G? Higurashi is one of my all time favorite series. And, I enjoyed Madoka greatly up until the last lame episode. How many of us wish we had the ability to turn back time and try and fix something? It is such an intriguing plot device.
It doesn’t matter to me if they use the same plot idea for multiple shows or not. What matters is the content of the show, the characters, and the story.
How many different types of scifi series we all love take place in space and in the future (or a long time ago)? Faster than light space ships, lasers, robots, etc. These are used over and over yet we still love each show individually.
Higurashi came first.
One of my favorites as well, especially the arc where they keep on repeating in order to change fate.
check out http://vndb.org for a huge list of VN’s and their release dates.
you can add “the girl who lead through time”
One more story of going back to the past to fix something
Don’t care whether this show follows the visual novel or whatever it’s called, it was already the best series of the season for me before the last two episodes, and now it’s the best by a wider margin (it’s been a crappy season, imho … I never really gelled with the forced-melodrama of the aloof-hotel-girl and boy-and-imaginary-friend animes).
@Kiiragi
I’ll miss your S:G blogposts, for sure. Godspeed with your life and whatever endeavors you pursue in future.
This series is so good, I almost felt the same pain Okabe felt
I couldn’t stand watching Mayuri dieing over and over again…
I just wonder how dedicated Okabe is to saving Mayuri. Will he loose his mind and give up shortly? Will he just shrug it off as “fate’? Or will he live up to his own words and never stop until she is saved?
Does he have the same tenacity as Furude Rika!?
It depends on what you underlining assumption is…
The real question is: what is the price that Okarin is willing to pay for Mayuri’s life?
From what I can see, he is slowing giving up more and more. It would be long before he given everything short of his own life for her. Then come the moment of truth: if he can save her by sacrificing himself, would he?
My theory is that Mayuri’s fate is unchangeable. However, I do know of one exception to the rule of Fate. If Mayuri is destined to die, it just mean somebody has to die meaning that if Okarin is willing to switch fate with her, she can be saved. But at what cost? His own life?
Then what is life with Okarin? What is the point of saving someone you loved if you died in the process? Then Mayuri has to live alone and knowing Okarin die for her…SAD!
Kind of remind me this old one
From this point on it´s a fight to save Mayuri from Fate, but if you think carefully the only of doing so is to take SERN out of the picture. If Okarin manages to save Mayuri, then what? Sern will still manage to rise to power and crearte a distopya. I wonder which way the is going to take in case Mayuri can be saved.
You raise an important issue that many people have overlooked. That is people failed to see the comparison of Mayuri to SERN.
I will explain. Mayuri serve as a smaller version of SERN. If what is needed to save Mayuri is next to impossible, then how do you expect to save the world from SERN?
If Mayuri is destined to die, then SERN is destined to rule. Meaning that 99% of the time, Fate will win. Only the 1% will change it. Assuming Okarin will have to turn the world upside down and inside out to do it. A feat next to impossibility…unless you can become God.
I’m seeing parallels to the recent ‘The Time Machine’ movie.
“I can go back a hundred times, she will die a hundred ways…”
I do not agree with this line, if you send a d-mail back and change the timeline as a full trip can´t change it?
Dmail and timeleap are THE SAME THING. Just in one case you SEND TEXT, in other case you SEND MEMORIES, into an alternate timeline.
The outcome most likely would be the same, just you would not see it transpire.
@UnknownVoice,
D-mail and time leap are definitely NOT the same thing. The only thing that they have in common is that they are both methods of time travel. The anime follows the many-world theory rather than single timeline. However, it never stated that you can’t travel back to your own timeline.
The main difference between the two is obvious: FATE. If D-mail was the same as time leap, then Makise’s death was gonna happen either way. Well, it was prevented thus Fate failed. The one explanation is to travel back on the same timeline revealing that certain events are bound to happen no matter what (aka FATE).
Both of you are right, but both of you are wrong, too…
The truth is how you interpret time travel (AKA One timeline versus Many-world theory). In one timeline, everything exist as one time thus traveling back in time mean you are just changing the existing world. In many world theory, each time travel result in a different world aside from your original world.
Steins;Gate before the Time Leap assume many world theory, but time leap assume one world theory, where there is only one timeline (this is the time travel method most people are used to).
Really out there but, how does Okarin manage to keep his hair pulled back?
I would like to see more flashbacks between Okarin and Mayushii
One thing that could keep Mayuri alive is for Okarin to do multiple time leaps to give hime more time.
After Okarin Time Leaps the 1st time Mayuri dies and arrives at the point where he’s back in the room where only Kris and Daru are present, Okarin does another time leap at that point to an earlier point in time and so on and thus gaining more time to save Mayuri, explain everything to everyone at another location since I’m guessing the lab is bugged and possibly plan for away to counter attack.
A double time leap…or as many as it takes.
Only one problem, what if Mayuri is destined to die since the beginning of time? O.o
It kills your multiple time leap idea, doesn’t it? You can travel as far back as you can, but to know that her death is unchangeable make all your efforts in vain. I believe Okarin will realize it after 1001 try.
But he can only leap to a time after the time leap machine was completed.
He cannot leap back at will. I think Daru and Cristina just completed the device that morning.
You are right…
Well he could leap much more backward, only once if he tell them to leave the lab.
If he don’t say anything they would just build it once more, like the first time.
Kinda reminds me of that old time machine movie…
where he tries to save his fiancee but she keeps dying no matter
what he did…
Then it ask the question, What is the point of having a time machine if you can’t change time?
I want to call Mayuri’s cellphone for my dose of tutturuu~!
Sending more D-mails to save mayuri won’t be a good idea because it would create a dystopian future (0% divergence)
Who wants a Show Spoiler ▼
for next episode?
Thanks for blogging it man. Can’t wait for next week. I’m completely absorbed in this.
almost 100 posts in a few hours, again… show of the season, considering discussion intensity!
I think it’s a case of the future predicting the past (read that somewhere). Mayuri has already died in the future, so no matter what you do in the past you can’t change it, she will always die?
He can obviously change small things (like cancelling parties and changing where he goes) but maybe the major events like death can’t be changed.
he can change timelines to where she is alive, but she would still be dead in the timeline he left and that is sad.
I am surprised nobody mention that Makise died for the second time! T.T
2nd post….
third*
Never happen because he went back in time.
With all the things that she got bashed with Mayuri-chan must have a mean headache coming out of this episode.
a more visual of the timeline theory explained in the manga
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/steins_gate_boukan_no_rebellion/v01/c002/11.html
the manga is a prelude to the main story, aka before suzuha meets okabe.
SPOILER on the first page >.<
Yeah, I was curious and click on the link. It shows a lot of spoiler in there so don’t look…
Moeka, REALLY?!
Shooting her in the head wasn’t enough for you? You had to run her over with a car…
I hated you before on 10 scale, now it’s 20. I am still waiting for the day Okarin get his revenge on you…
Remember what I said that everything in the anime has a meaning. For Mayuri, it shows the picture of a tree a lot around her. Apparently, the tree represents life and death. A cherry tree like those where Mayuri always standing next to symbolize death…
Now you know.
So from what happens, Time leaping is travelling up and down the same world line while D-mail is travelling horizontally to another world line.
However travelling back to the same world line causes the current “state” of the character at that time so a loop back to that point in the world line should not be that same world line. The entire idea seems to be that Time leaping splits the world line like the 3 to 4 tines in a pitchfork, perhaps making phantom “copies” of the world line.
For the memory compression idea for Time leaping, it seems the idea is that the compression happens to the radio wave itself. Digital 1s and 0s are still actually energy spikes and are not exactly uniform from spike to spike. This is also the reason why you read about PC chip makers having problems when the transistor size hits a certain size. The surrounding electrical interference (noise) makes it harder and harder to differenitate 1 from 0 thus they pump more power to make the 1 more obvious. Since the bits are still used in energy form, it seems the entire idea is that the data sent is irrelevant. What is important is the energy wave that reaches.
Why is my mind so far away from me right now? Oh yeah, because this episode blew it away.
And Kii, I think you should at least finish S;G before officially quitting RC.
Hmmm… I think we dont see the timeline shift since we abandon one Okabe when the time leap occurs and follow the memories sent downtime.
Secondary, the sliding scales of fate versus indeterminism – notice how the dialog about trains is constant? seemingly fate can not be avoided, contrary to Sarah Connor “No fate” statement – and arguably true to the “Rise of the machines”.
Also, anyone who has read amazing “Axis of time” novel series will be familiar with the theory of time trying to follow established path. In that particular event it was despite plethora of butterfly effects caused by 21th century naval taskforce sent into 1942, Germany and Japan still lose the war, and Russia ends up conquering half Europe and in cold war with the US.
anyone has a tutturu ringtone? please do share it!
okabe the next homura?
A sharp-eyed (and anonymous) poster on my blog noticed that during the two scenes where the little boy is playing with his toy train as Okarin runs by, what’s happening int he background is very different. The first time (8:17) there are fewer people behind them, and they appear to be looking up at the bridge. In the second (16:02) more people, not looking at the bridge. Significant?
I remember Okarin’ thoughts, seeing Mayuri die again and again until he got completely numb on his emotions and stopped crying, it was everyday routine. Live happy and get her killed. Without giving up, but without making any change. An endless loop of hell. Hell that was real desperation, it touched me.
Similar to the suzuha ending? I think? THAT was a hell of repetition.
Seriously, I thought I fall on a programming bug entering on a infinite loop. Going all happy on bicycles lalalala~
Since many have already said that Mayushii is destined no matter what to die, does this also mean that Kurisu is also destined to die just as she did before Okarin time-leaped or is she just an exception because of the situation she was in when she was shot?
Good point…
I thought about that, but forgot to mention it. Thanks for reminding me. If Mayuri is destined to die, will Makise be, too?
It doesn’t seem so. Based on Makise’s death, we can assume Time Leap cannot change destiny, but D-mail can since it changes worlds. A loophole in the Final Destination situation here. On the other hand if it was true, I can’t imagine Okarin reaction when he learned about it. Mayuri is 80% of his world and Maikse is the remaining 20%. For both of them to died, Okarin will go insane in a matter of seconds.
I thought I would really bawl my eyes out after seeing Mayuri die again and again, but surprisingly the balance in this episode was well done, from Okabe’s flashback of how he made Mayuri his “hostage” and how desperate he was at trying to save her. So I was more pissed off than sad, especially after knowing how much history Okabe and Mayuri has. As much as I love his bickering with Kurisu, I still prefer Okabe to be with Mayuri, it just seems so natural.
Well it fits with actual quantum time travel physics… well at least the deterministic parts….Notice how it wasn’t SERN that killed Mayuri the third time…but, by an accident. Indeed in some physics theories on time travel it is said the no matter what you do some events are run by chaos (physics definition of chaos is weird but stick with me) and are out of your control and are instead controlled by steady streams of alternate time-lines that funnel into one outcome every time. You guys might know this phenomenon as FATE and by it’s very nature it cannot be changed. But with the show who knows really…. this is just me injecting some physics…MAN I love this show.
Anything involving the word “chaos” is awesome in my book. I wonder why?
hmmm wild mass guessing here, but is it possible…
Show Spoiler ▼
It is plausible. All we know is Suzuha and John Titor are from the future and nobody else. Ity is only assumption that Moeka might be from the future. But, we highly suspected she is brainwashed, which is most likely the case.
Check out the preview for episode 14 above, there are some interesting things in there. But, if you rather keep the suspense, then I don’t recommend watching the preview seeing that it is a form of spoiler within itself…
yeah I though that to, Moeka could have used a sort of time leap machine too to transfer her memory into Nae. This would mean that SERN can leap mus more further than the lab one that is only 48h. However I’d like to think that the train leap was used to show us that mayuri’s death is not SERN fault but fate.
BAH, just when this shit got good! Someone pick this up quick while I have some of my sanity left! (j/k). It’s one of those time rules, no matter how they died they WILL die either way, destiny my friends. Destiny.
It depends on how you defined Fate…
Most people would say it is a mysterious force that cannot be stop. However, everything in the known universe suggests that it all come down to a matter of willpower. Instead of defining Fate as god-like being, it is more like a cluster of will of others combined together to make sure something will undoubtedly occur. SO it is not god versus one, but rather 1000 vs one. The odds are in Fate favor. To change Fate, your willpower must surpass those of Fate.
Has anyone noticed that there were 2 instances of Mayushi mentioning how her pocket watch’s hands just stopped despite how she wound them already? I cant help but think this has some significant message.
Also in the previous episode near the end when Okabe was looking at the hourglass, was that hourglass running or frozen? I dont remember. Its as if time itself has stopped maybe?
It is a metaphor signifying her death. Every time her watch stops, it means she will die in the next few moments.