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ef – a tale of memories – 08

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Summary:

Having not heard from Hiro, Miyako throws her phone into the fountain and decides to go check at his apartment. Little does she know, Hiro actually does show up at the fountain sometime after she leaves, and the person Miyako ends up seeing at Hiro’s apartment is Kei. The main problem is that Kei had been showering, so she answers the door in a towel and proceeds to lie to Miyako about Hiro sleeping right now. She refuses to let Miyako through to see him and promises to always be at his side, so she feels that it’s over for Miyako. Unaware of this, Hiro ends up spending more time with the injured Kei while Miyako despairs at school over how she no longer has access to the rooftop. Renji and Chihiro meanwhile continue meeting in the library as if nothing happened between them, and Chihiro enjoys Renji’s lunches as much as ever. She wants him to teach her to cook, so Renji suggests they do something simple. On the way home, Chihiro asks Renji about if he’s decided on his future aspirations and suggests that he could be a novelist. Renji doubts he has the talent, but Chihiro feels that the act of doing is more important since that’s what he had taught her. She simply doesn’t want him to give up on his dream. Chihiro then notices the sand castle that’s still on the beach, and to Renji’s surprise, she helps him rebuild it.

Miyako is meanwhile by herself wondering why she’s depressed since she has merely returned to being how she originally was. Yuuko suddenly appears beside her in this desolate landscape and tells her that this isn’t the place to return to. Miyako doesn’t know where to go, so Yuuko points out that Miyako knows warmth, and as long as Miyako remembers the gentle touch, she can’t choose the wrong path. Back at the church, Renji is telling Yuu that Chihiro’s condition is improving a little because she’s able to remember better, but Yuu thinks that it’s impossible. He doesn’t believe there are miraculous things in this world and thinks that there are only coincidences and hitsuzen. Over at school, Hiro and Miyako are summoned to the counselor’s office about their future aspirations, though Miyako never shows up. Kei still thinks that Hiro should concentrate on his studying over his work, but Hiro then gets a phone call from his editor asking him to do a one-shot. Though Kei objects, Hiro agrees to do it because he knows that newcomers like him need to take opportunities like this. Kei gets angry because of this and decides to go to her club activities, claiming that her body will weaken if she doesn’t move around. The two then get into an argument because each believes the other should rest, and it ends when Kei stomps off by herself.

Kyousuke is the one who takes Kei home afterwards, and since she initially spends the bicycle ride complaining about Hiro, Kyousuke turns the subject to why she started playing basketball. Hearing that the reason is because she loved it, Kyousuke suggests that Hiro feels similarly about his work. At home, Kei sees the movie competition disk on her bed, decides to watch it, and is quite taken in by what she sees. Over at the library, Renji is watching Chihiro work on her novel when he notices her dozing off. She wakes back up soon after and panics because she thinks she slept for too long, even though it was only for a little while. That night, Yuu notices Chihiro is completely out of it during dinner, but when he gets her attention, she claims she just has something on her mind. It turns out that Chihiro is actually trying very hard to keep her memories by constantly running them through her head. When Yuu catches her waking up at midnight to read her diary to confirm that she still remembers, Chihiro reveals that she only writes an outline in her diary. She reads it and tries to remember the things in detail so that she can keep her memory for longer than 13 hours, all because she doesn’t want to lose her time with Renji. Hearing this, Yuu tries to take away Chihiro’s diary and tells her that what she’s doing is useless. She nevertheless desperately tries to get it back, and when Yuu slaps her, she vows not to forget. He eventually gives back the diary.

The next day, on the way home, Chihiro asks to hold Renji’s hand. He’s happy to do so, but right as she reaches out, her eyes turn dead and she falls to the ground. She’s brought back to Yuu’s house and Renji is allowed to see her sometime later while she’s still sleeping. Chihiro wakes up with him by her bedside, however she no longer recognizes him and panics when she realizes that she’s older than she used to be. She has no idea what happened to her eye and goes into shock when she takes off her eye-patch. Yuu remains calm through all this and tells Renji that Chihiro will live at age 12 and with the 13-hour limit forever. As for Miyako, she calls Hiro that night from a payphone but doesn’t say anything when he answers. After Hiro figures out that it’s her, she feels relieved that she hadn’t disappeared yet from his heart.

 
 
 

So Miyako is still relatively sane after all that happened last week, though seeing Kei in a towel at Hiro’s home probably doesn’t help. I think she’s merely really fragile at this point – as opposed to tottering on the brink of insanity – and some time with Hiro is what she needs to return to normal. Kei could still provoke something, but since she’s is warming up to Kyousuke, the original pairings of KeiXKyousuke and HiroXMiyako will likely hold true.

Of course, Miyako wasn’t the focus of the episode – Chihiro and her memories were. I’m still getting used to seeing Chihiro display so much emotion, and this reset of Chihiro’s memory adds an interesting new wrinkle to things, such as her having to get completely reacquainted with Renji. Unless she regains her memories, it’s hard to imagine that their relationship could go back to being how it was, and Renji’s probably due for a good deal of angst. Despite this though, I still think that their story remains weaker when compared to Hiro/Miyako/Kei and am looking forward to next week’s Miyako/Hiro episode.

November 24, 2007 at 5:55 pm
73 comments »
  • November 24, 2007 at 6:13 pmHei

    the show’s getting intense

  • November 24, 2007 at 6:15 pmSheet Son

    This shit is getting intense.

  • November 24, 2007 at 6:19 pmDeadlyrain

    I sense gar

  • November 24, 2007 at 6:28 pmEnosioph

    is someone gonna kill each other again…?
    i can see a nice boat at the end…

  • November 24, 2007 at 6:45 pmRamza

    OOOHHHH its like school days all over again

  • November 24, 2007 at 7:05 pmgolthin

    hmm seem like Hiro found out that Kei deleted the messages by the pictures. I’ll find out soon almost have the episode downloaded. Man I love the weekends, I get kimikiss and Ef memories within a day!

  • November 24, 2007 at 7:09 pmAle

    You know, even if I disliked her, I’ve been trying to understand and tolerate Kei, but you can only be so much of a bitch till I stop being rational. So I really hope all this **** she’s doing comes back to bite her in the end.

  • November 24, 2007 at 7:13 pmKasai

    This series has been really getting intense and crazy lately. So awesome XD.

  • November 24, 2007 at 7:18 pmgolthin

    well, he didn’t find out. the argument was about hiro taking a job instead of having some fun with Kei.

  • November 24, 2007 at 8:04 pmDeadlyrain

    @golthin: Ever hear the song “What a girl wants, what a girl needs”? Yeah that basically describes Kei, & what she wants she’ll get all nasty for. Like a real city girl if you ask me.

  • November 24, 2007 at 8:05 pmelba

    By now I think it’s not even close to School Days regarding the story’s development. And I don’t see a nice boat in the end either. I wonder what draws everyone to that conclusion?

  • November 24, 2007 at 8:06 pmDeadlyrain

    I meant to address my comment to Ale, my bad. ^^
    The art at the end of the ED was weird, with the hindu/black man staring at you. I suspect it’s fanart… Or maybe just a weird interpretation of the anime from a sick twisted 4 year old perspective.

  • November 24, 2007 at 8:08 pmAle

    Sure, but that’s precisely the kind of people I don’t like.

    I just hope she’ll grow up once this stuff comes back to bite her. It’s not like she’s evil or anything, she just hasn’t learn to put herself in other people’s place.

  • November 24, 2007 at 8:45 pmProfessional Rambler

    Craaaazy shit going down here, but I’m lovin’ it!

  • November 24, 2007 at 8:56 pmChicle

    I just want to punch the faces of every person who uses School Days as the standard for intense romance animes.

  • November 24, 2007 at 8:59 pmLOCKESS

    Go watch myself yourself instead.

  • November 24, 2007 at 10:03 pmgmdeath

    somehow, i knew people would mention school days again…. ahhh.. tsk3
    anyways,, kei needs to get bitten back by anyone, she’s been to obsessed
    with hiro and how to get her away from miyako.

  • November 24, 2007 at 11:05 pmJairo

    “I still prefer Miyako/Hiro/Kei.”

  • November 24, 2007 at 11:49 pmmewmew

    Hm, I don’t think we will be entering nice boat at all… (The unfinished visual novel showed zero indications of that, at least)

    I’m presuming Yuuko will remain as a side character instead of being focused on at this pace ^^;

  • November 25, 2007 at 12:37 amNai

    @Deadlyrain
    It was being drawn by Hekiru Hikawa, Pani Poni’s author. So well, it’s pretty random (and I think it’s funny).

  • November 25, 2007 at 12:41 amMarilori

    I greatly dislike characters like Miyako. Their actions get justified by their so called sad past.

    And then characters like Kei, which I always find more interesting seem to always get the band end of the stick when it comes to the relationship part with the male lead.
    If this took a different route from the game, I’ll be surprised.

  • November 25, 2007 at 1:17 amSheet Son

    Miyako crying seriously makes me feel all sad for some reason.

  • November 25, 2007 at 2:02 amgetsu

    Complete reset? So she no longer remembers even before the accident?

  • November 25, 2007 at 2:10 amdmo

    Renji x Chihiro’s getting too much screen time for being so uninteresting >__>

  • November 25, 2007 at 2:14 amdmo

    (bleh, double post)

    Some people dislike Miyako because she’s using the “bad past” thing as a “handicap”…but come on, she’s not doing that intentionally.

    Kei on the other hand called out Miyako and threatened her, invaded their privacy by looking through Hirono’s cell phone and deleting Miyako’s messages, and then lied to Miyako’s face when she went to Hirono’s house to talk.

    So I’ll ask this…how can someone like Kei better than Miyako?

  • November 25, 2007 at 2:18 amAle

    I dunno. After this ep I can confidently say that at the moment Kei is a bitch.

    Maybe she’ll mature though. I hope so anyway.

  • November 25, 2007 at 2:55 amDarkdam

    I was hating Miyako at one point but now I hate Kei. I’m confusing myself. I of course prefer Miyako/Jiro/Kei story line. Mad intense.

  • November 25, 2007 at 4:29 amGPo and Renji s

    While Miyako doesn’t use her past on pourpose to win or anything, i’s there so we the viewers can feel sorry for her. These sora things don’t work with me though, many people go through some sorta sad event in their lives. But she should’ve found a way to get over it and move on by now. Go to school more and make more friends? I know Hiro is nice to her and all, but trowing all of her hopes on him is wrong. It just shows she still has problems. And I think they’ll get worse before they get better.

    As for Kei, it seems we’ve went from jealous to possessive and now to just plane bitch again. Maybe i’m the only one who looks at her objectivelly though. Yes she’s in love and this does make her jealous, but this is a natural feeling for a love triangle drama like this show to have. Deleteing Hiros cellphone messages was wrong, yes, I agree with this and have said so. Does that qualify to make her a bitch though? In my mind it depends on a few other things, and up to that point she didn’t do anything to Miyako directly or indirectly to stop her from seeing Hiro. Alos she didn’t try and stop Hiro at all.

    To me the cellphone bit is just another example of her jealousy in effect. That said I don’t know what she told Miyako in this episode so I can’t comment. I doubt she said something like them having sex or anything. Probably more along the lines of Hiro is busy and she should go away.

    I’ll wait for the summery before I comment more about the scene.

    And right now it seems like the show will try to wrap up the Chihiro and Renji arc first before they get to the ending of Hiro and co. It’s just moving faster imo compared to the Hiro/Kei/Miyako arc. 5 episodes left, so we’ll know soon.

  • November 25, 2007 at 4:42 amGPo and Renji s

    Looks like I was close. She did tell Miyako that he was sleeping. More jealousy kicking in heh. At this point it could go either way with the love triangle bit, though I do like Kei more I never hated Miyako either. I just like to root for the underdog often. Next episode will probably be mostly about Hiro and co. Since this episode moved the Chihiro plot along more, they’ll have to give the next ep to the Hiro plot to bring it up also.

    At this point it really just comes down to what Hiro will do. I still don’t see any hint of “love” for Miyako in him or his actions. At this time he’s shown more carring for Kei. But it’s still up in the air, I think though with the way they want us to feel sorry about Miyako, and the way they’re making Kei do the wrong things now (she could’ve just said Hiro wasn’t home and that would’ve worked also.) that they’re pushing for a Hiro x Miyako ending.

  • November 25, 2007 at 4:44 amGP

    Damn silly laptop keyboard, I never even noiced it jumped up into the name box while I was typing. Sorry about that.

  • November 25, 2007 at 5:47 amDelty

    Dang, Yuu slapped Chihiro? That’s f*cked up man!! >_

  • November 25, 2007 at 6:34 ammutio

    When does people stop comparing this show with school days.. it’s just worlds different.
    For myself also ten times better, but everybody his/her favs.

    Lot of angst again this episode. I’m curious how Chihiro x Renji will end.
    Btw, the second part of EF – a fairy tale of the two (the game this anime is based on) will have the name “ef – the latter tale” and will be available from the 30th May 2008.
    http://www.visual-novels.net/vn/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=612&Itemid=2#jc_writeComment

  • November 25, 2007 at 7:35 amRonin8317

    Chichiro’s story about the girl in the castle having her wedding is extremely sad. It remains to be seen whether Renji could breach the 13 hour barrier. The direction and voice acting is once again excellent this episode.

  • November 25, 2007 at 9:01 amAle

    I’ve been trying to look at her objectively and understand her, but she’s doing more malicious things than Miyako in my eyes, and I’m not gonna be so tolerant with everything she does just because she’s immature.

  • November 25, 2007 at 11:08 amJayars

    When I first watched Pani Poni Dash, its art style was really unique and so I stuck with it. Then there was Negima, where the art style was totally out of place, and I gave up after 2 episodes. Now with Ef, it seems like the art style has stabilized and improved a lot and actually fit the moment sometimes(silhouettes, black white, etc)…

    but by now, I’m personally too tired of this art style. It’s really taxing on the eye and mind, which is really irritating, esp when I’m trying to “feel the moment”. Dunno how to put this, but basically, it’s just putting myself in the characters’ places and trying to feel what they might “feel”. This helps me connect with the characters better. But with the art style in Ef, it’s just so distracting.

  • November 25, 2007 at 12:35 pmyahiko

    Golphin can you tell me how you get the episodes so quick? I have been trying to find out how to get them.

  • November 25, 2007 at 2:18 pmdmo

    Chihiro : Give it back!
    *Himura slaps her XD*
    Chihiro : I won’t forget…I definately won’t forget that just now!!!
    Himura : But I technically have your memories *waves diary around* lulz

  • November 25, 2007 at 3:15 pmyahiko

    You just don’t give up do you GP. Forget about that doing it out of love crap with her. She just need to grow the hell up, plain and simple. I hope that all the things she has done blow up in her face, all in her face. Again all in her face. One more time, ALL IN HER FACE!!!!

  • November 25, 2007 at 3:56 pmGP

    Me give up? You need to step back and look at your posts a bit, specially the one above, way more immature than even Kei. You must be happy eh? And age has nothing to do with it when love is in the mix. Or do you think only teens act jealous and angsty? Seriouslly, get a clue about how the world and human emotions work. It’s NEVER black and white, if you think it is then you’re being naive to say the least.

    Even older men and woman act like this (and way worse) when jealousy comes into play. How many times have you read about women and men killing their partners out of jealousy? Or confronting the 3rd party and killing them or hurting them physically? Compared to the things some people have done in real life, the two things Kei has done (just now I might add) are minor.

    You say to forget the love aspect of it, but that’s like sticking your fingers and your ears and going lalalalala so you don’t have to hear the truth because it goes agenst your bias opinion.

    Look I get you love Miyako with all your heart or whatever, but come on man, you sound like a fanboy more and more. I’ve said it time and again that I don’t hate her OR Kei, and even though Kei has made these mistakes, they fall within the acts made by a person who’s in love and jealous. I really can’t understand why you choose not to see it. Maybe if you agree with it then I guess you’d be scared of finally realising that she’s not some cold hearted bitch and not at all different from a normal person.

  • November 25, 2007 at 4:28 pmAle

    Age may not have much to do with it when love is in the mix, but maturity does. Sure Kei’s a normal person, but she’s making mistakes that I don’t think other people would make (and there’s others who would do much worse).
    And yes, there’s a lots of immature adults out there, but there’s also people who can use their head, unless you’re telling me that everyone acts that way when they’re in love.

    Personally I have more faith in the human race than that, but your mileage may vary.

    On my part calling Kei a bitch was probably a knee jerk reaction, but I do think she’s immature and possessive, and needs to grow up. I think she will anyway, once the story progresses, because it looks like they’re going to go for HiroxMiyako, and the shafted one always gets good character development because she has to learn to accept it and whatnot.

  • November 25, 2007 at 4:54 pmGP

    It’s not about my faith in the human race or anything like that. The thing is you can have a person being very mature, kind, smart and all that, then just flip on a dime with the right push/event. Emotions, like I’ve said, are not black and white. And try as we might, we can’t fully control them all the time. Jealousy clouds your judgment, and makes you do silly/stupid or immature things. Does this make you bad per say? It really depends on how far you go doesn’t it?

    The thing is that you have to take it all into the context of the story. You’re forgetting that this is a romance “drama”, the actions and events that take place are done so to get that effect going. In the normal non-soap opera world Kei wouldn’t probably act like this, and would’ve confessed by now and so on. You need to look at it all within the area of the story/plot. To that extent would a girl who gets stoodup on a date send 99 messages to a guys phone and jump all over the place with weird mood swings? No, I don’t think she would. And before you say “but Miyako has her past trauma!” Lots of kids have parents who split when they’re young, and it use your own words they “grow up and deal with it.” But it doesn’t seem Miyako has, again because of the type of show we’re watching this is all by design.

    You can’t really look at real life people and match up what they would do to an anime world and anime characters. I know it may seem like that’s what I’m doing by comparing Kei and Miyako with normal girls who are in love/jealous and obsessed with Hiro, but I’m doing it within the scope of the story/plot we have.

    At this point it does seem like they’re pushing for Hiro and Miyako, but you can never tell really. Other shows have shown that in the last minute anything can happen. Agan you say Kei should grow up and deal, but I figure the same applies to Miyako also. Why doesn’t she go out and try to connect with other people like she did with Hiro? Why does she feel she can’t with anyone else and only with him? Why isn’t she making that effert to move on with her life and “deal” with her past already?

    Again, this could all just be by design, when the writers want you to feel a certain way about each character they do these sorta things to get that mood going. But I think if they’re set on a Hiro x Miyako pair already, then the next eps won’t have much to them really. At this point all it would take is for Hiro to find out about the messages and then use that to break his ties with Kei. This could very well be how it breaks down, but again I don’t get any feeling of “love” out of Hiro towards Miyako. He seems to fixated on his mangaka job than any sorta relationship. And if all Miyako needs is to just be close to him from time to time, than how is that any different from Kei? In the end we wouldn’t have gotten anywhere really.

  • November 25, 2007 at 5:42 pmAle

    It’s not about my faith in the human race or anything like that. The thing is you can have a person being very mature, kind, smart and all that, then just flip on a dime with the right push/event. Emotions, like I’ve said, are not black and white. And try as we might, we can’t fully control them all the time. Jealousy clouds your judgment, and makes you do silly/stupid or immature things. Does this make you bad per say? It really depends on how far you go doesn’t it?

    Ah, but how people deal with their emotions is an essential part of how mature they are. And certainly someone who can deal with them better and avoid hurting others by doing stupid things would be a better person in my eyes.

    Miyako needs to grow up too. I’m not defending her. But she’s not really done anything like Kei. Kei’s making mistakes that are hurting Miyako, because instead of being honest with Hiro, she goes to Miyako. This is because of what happened with Chihiro, yes, so it’s understandable, but that’s her own problem, and Miyako doesn’t really deserve to take any pain due to Kei’s issues. She “plays dirty” because she feels she’s undeserving of Hiro, but at the same time she doesn’t let anyone else get close to him, because she doesn’t want to lose him. All that when she could just…talk to him. Again, this is understandable, but not really justifiable. I can feel empathy but not a whole lot of sympathy.

    Miyako’s not done anything really “wrong” for all I’m concerned. She has her own issues, she is also immature, but she doesn’t go out and tell Kei that she’ll erase her or lie and play dirty (not that Kei’s doing it intentionally, her thought process probably goes as far as girl close to oniichan -> must erase at this point, but I’m sure she does feel animosity toward Miyako from the way she’s acting, just that hurting her is not her motivation). So she deals with them in a better way…which as I explained makes her a better person in my eyes. At least at this point in time…I’m sure both will grow up by the time the show ends.

    And I don’t really think Hiro will break all his ties with Kei because of the message deleting thing. In fact I don’t think Hiro will break all ties with Kei if he chooses Miyako.

    As for whether they’re going for MiyakoxHiro or not, I think that’d be the most logical conclusion with the buildup we’ve had…the symbolism among other little perks such as the MiyaMiya HiroHiro name thing seem to point to that pairing. I dunno if they will end up together, but they seem to be the “fated encounter” of the series. Stuff could fuck that up like one of them dying or moving, as in, any sort of bittersweet ending.
    Of course, they’re free to prove me wrong and come up with a good Kei ending, but I really don’t think that’s where the show is going.

  • November 25, 2007 at 8:47 pmBROOKLYN otaku

    i wana lick her EYEHOLE!!!!!

  • November 25, 2007 at 10:47 pmyahiko

    Thank you very much Ale. From episode 1 all the up until now I showed no interest in Kei. I disagree on how she acts and do things. Like I said before I hope that it will bite her in the face. And for your information GP I do know excatlly how humans and the world work better than you know. Thank you very much. Kei made a wrong move in holding back her confession to Hiro just because he stood Miyako up and came to her rescue. BULL CRAP!! Obviousely she’s not that determine to confess to him, but wait till she see Miyako back in Hiro’s face. Let’s see what Kei does.

  • November 26, 2007 at 3:15 amMary

    I decided to join in :P This really seems like a Kei vs Miyako doesn’t it? Sorry, sorry, but I’m all for Kei. I don’t know why I like her so much since I know Kei has done some pretty… dodgy things but I’ve liked her from the very start- when I read about ef in Newtype and I haven’t even watched any of the episodes yet! Summaries are

  • November 26, 2007 at 3:19 amMary

    Eh? It got cut off- lemme try again:
    . I decided to join in :P This really seems like a Kei vs Miyako doesn’t it? Sorry, sorry, but I’m all for Kei. I don’t know why I like her so much since I know Kei has done some pretty… dodgy things but I’ve liked her from the very start- when I read about ef in Newtype and I haven’t even watched any of the episodes yet! Summaries are love. For the person who asked how could someone like Kei over Miyako, well I don’t know how to explain why. It’s not because Kei’s prettier, smarter or better I just like her because to me, she’s so much more interesting- and I’ve always gone for the girl who probably won’t have the guy in a love triange. Since it’s most likely HiroxMiyako, it’s an automatic Kei-fan.

    *cough* Anyway, I’m just going to say what I think right now instead of rambling on about why I like Kei. I think Kei didn’t confess to Hiro because she was scared, not because she wasn’t determined- and who wouldn’t be? Confessing to someone you like is pretty scary after all. And when Kei sees Miyako with Hiro she’ll probably be all jelaous again and think along the lines: damn! why didn’t I confess to him, stupid me. Rawr, it’s all Miyako’s fault. And then she’ll probably do something to make people hate her again.

    What’s wrong with Kei really? I know she does pretty mean and heartless things but I think I don’t care about that and like her so much, because really, what she does has some similarities with some girls’ actions don’t you think? Some of the people I know are a bit like that- some are too scared to confess because they’re scared of what they might lose but don’t want to let that person go, some girls get so jealous of the “interferer” that they start rumours and say nasty things about the girl etc. Some girls probably would threaten their version of Miyako and delete the messages.

    Not saying Miyako’s bad of course; Miyako’s fine. She just doesn’t appeal to me as much as Kei does. Gawd, I want a KimiNozo ending. I can’t wait to see how this turns out… and if I like the outcome, I’m downloading and watching it. But it will probably end up Kiro x Miyako *sob* And I want more Kei and Chihiro interaction dammit

  • November 26, 2007 at 4:20 amgolthin

    what you guys don’t get is the Miyako did the same thing to Kai, She KNEW when the basketball Meeting was going to happen, She asked Hiro to go out the day and at the time so he couldn’t go to the basketball meet. she even asked if he promised her to go when hiro mentioned that Sunday was Kai’s basketball meeting. Kei didn’t hurt her leg on purpose, it just happened. I think Both girls are fighting for what they want in equal terms and just because so far Kei has the upper hand doesn’t make her a bitch.

  • November 26, 2007 at 5:36 amGP

    @Golthin

    I brought that up before a few times. I keep saying how similure they are but because the show is, or it seems like it is, pushing for a Miyako x Hiro pair they’re doing more to make you feel for her pain and loneliness etc. I also just like Kei more, not that Miyako is bad etc, but Kei for me has something more. The two mistakes she made are both something I can forgive a person for, maybe some others can’t but oh well.

    And about dealling with emotions making you mature. Yes that’s how it works normally, but you know, like I said before, everyone has their own boiling point regardless of how mature they are. If you don’t then I don’t know what to say, you probably got some great zen thing going on there heh.

    The thing is that regardless of how mature you are and in control of your emoions there will ALWAYS be something that can bring out those emotions no matter how mature or in conrol you are. That’s what I meant before, and this is just human nature and applies to everyone imo.

  • November 26, 2007 at 8:59 amyahiko

    Whatever, I don’t see what you people see. Maybe if Kei did’t threatened Miyako in the first place, than Miyako probably wouldn’t enforce Hiro to go out with her. Tell me one thing Miyako has done that was wrong? Can you tell me GP? Can you tell me Mary? Because asking him out I don’t think was wrong. And lying and trying to erase someone out of there life is something a child would do. So far Miyako has not done nothing at all to Kei. She never talked about her to Hiro and never lied to her. Kei talked bad about her from the start to Hiro. How can you be so cruel to someone you don’t even know?

  • November 26, 2007 at 5:39 pmDr. Joe Stan

    Let us not forget that Kei erased all the messages on Hiro’s phone without thinking much about the repercussions (Episode 7, after ED credits). She did it as if it were an instinct. This reflects her possessiveness of Hiro. It also shows her lack of maturity. After all, they do say “think before you act.” The reason why this strikes me as one of the more serious sins is that this action is dishonest to Hiro. How is this dishonest? One, it prohibits Hiro from knowing that Miyako called him many times (possibly more than 99 times if the cell-phone cannot support three-digit numbers in the “message #/total messages” indicator), and two, since Hiro doesn’t know about this, he ends up spending more time with Kei.

    In my opinion, I feel Kei’s actions are the more “dangerous/troubled” ones. Kei threatened to “erase” Miyako (hopefully not as in to kill her), erased the messages on Hiro’s phone (as discussed previously), and then lied again when Miyako came to Hiro’s apartment in a fashion intended to hurt Miyako. One can argue that this is all in the air of her love for Hiro, but surely, she seems to want to hurt Miyako in the process of “winning Hiro”/keeping Hiro for herself. What is her motive for hurting Miyako?

    Let us analyze this from another perspective. If Hiro somehow knew of each female’s actions, who do you believe he will choose (if he were to choose)? This is completely hypothetical, as Hiro does not know everything that Kei or Miyako said or did. Who would you choose, if you were to choose?

    Lastly, if you have not watched the prologue, I urge you to. Even if you do not believe in prologues and their implications on the storyline, you can at least enjoy the animation and music.

  • November 26, 2007 at 5:42 pmAle

    She hurts Miyako because she thinks she doesn’t deserve to confess to Hiro after what happened with Chihiro in the past.

    So instead of being honest with Hiro she attacks Miyako. She wants to push her away. What she doesn’t realize is that she’s making the exact same mistake she made as a kid…

  • November 26, 2007 at 6:09 pmnightwolfe00

    man lovin this but i really need to find episode 8, anyone knows where it is subbed. thanx. ps. the chihiro/rengi story is the best

  • November 26, 2007 at 7:32 pmyahiko

    Im trying to find out myself where to find the episode. I agree with Dr. Joe Stan. Thank you for that great comment. Let’s hear a combat from GP now.

  • November 27, 2007 at 4:11 amGP

    Heh, you’re making it sound like this is some sorta life or death fight yahiko.

    But anyways, i’ll debate on if only because there are some points in Dr. Joes post I’d like to hit on.

    We haven’t forgotten about the cellphone bit, I and others have brought it up often. It’s the FIRST and biggest mistake Kei has made in 8episodes. Saying she did it as if it where out of instinct is subjective, to me it looked more like a knee-jerk reaction due to her jealousy. She sees all the messages and then has that simple reaction that shows she’s mad. Then she deletes them. It wasn’t really a automatic thing, it was more her being made, cuz she’s jealous right now. Nothing complicated. I think many of you seem to want to overcomplicate her and make her out to be possessive. I’ve talked about how she isn’t really possessive at all. And I don’t see how she comes off like that to others. To me for Kei to be possessive of Hiro she would have to dictate and force him to do what she wants, and she doesn’t do that at all. She also doesn’t pro-activelly try to stop him from seeing or talking to Miyako at this point. She has TWO things that she’s done that have hurt Miyako in some way, 1 is the cellphone and 2 is that little lie about Hiro sleeping in this ep. But those two actions in my mind fall into the area of “jealousy” and maybe also fear of being replaced/forgotten.

    This is where I say Kei and Miyako are the same, they both don’t want to be left out of Hiro’s heart/life. I don’t see how it’s not clear to some of you that they share the same trauma/fear and overall pain. The only difference is that Miyakos is cause of her parents, and Kei’s is cause of her sister/hiro and later on because of her sister getting hurt.

    And a few times you guys bring up this part about Kei “threatening to erase” Miyako. You’re just reading into it more than you need to. The word “erase” was used within the context of the plot, which is about memories, to give the scene a bigger effect on the viewer. You can replace the word erase with something else like say forget and have her say “i’ll make Hiro forget about you” But it’s just not the same, and actually kinda corny. The thing is, it’s not a direct physical threat to Miyako at all, and it’s not meant to be either. Kei doesn’t want to do anything like that, in a love triangle (in the real world anyways) one or both girls will confront the other and make their possitions known etc, hell, they might even start pulling hair and stuff heh, it happens. This doesn’t really happen in the “anime” world though. All to often you get the two girls saying how they won’t give up and blah blah, it’s like two friends talking about some athletic competition and not about winning the love of the same game. Too “friendly” and overall fake.

    At least in EF, they made that scene more realistic and full of emotion like it actually is in that situation. Don’t get hung up on one word guys, it doesn’t harbor any other hidden meaning or anything like that.

    @Ale

    Yeah, you could argoue that she’s hurting her by not being honest with Hiro which will happen at some point i’m sure, maybe in 9 or 10? I think 9 will be about chihiro and Renji actually, but we’ll see. So it does seem like she’s attacking Miyako, but those 2 things aren’t really direct attacks. The cellphone hurts her position with Hiro more than anything, and doesn’t work to stop Miyako at all. The 2nd time, well, like I said, she didn’t have to lie at all, but since she did, it does push Miyako away a bit, but just a bit. As you notice it doesn’t stop her from calling Hiro or anything, which to me shows how obsessed with Hiro Miyako is. Yet no one even brings that up with her? I understand you guys are bias, so I’ll just let it slide, heh.

    Anyways, since we liked to hit the hypothetical. It wouldn’t take much to flip Kei’s and Miyakos role, having Kei be more “right” and Miyako be in the “wrong” without even changing any of their actions in these past 3-4 eps. If just at the start you show Hiro and Kei together more and with a closer relationship (Kei has let Hiro know how she feels from the start of the show), then it would seem like Miyako is the one cutting in and it changes everything around. If it was like that, the cellphone and even the callout at the train tracks wouldn’t be “wrong” at all. So really, at this point they want you to feel a bit miffed at Kei and sorry for Miyako. But with 5 episodes left, it doesn’t take much to switch things around even now.

  • November 27, 2007 at 4:53 amyahiko

    Still won’t give up huh GP?

  • November 27, 2007 at 7:31 amGP

    Why do I have to give up? YOu keep calling me out in all your posts man. How often have you used my nick now? It’s like this is some one on one competition with you which I don’t remember it being.

    And since you don’t really reply in a way that counters my comments but wait for some other poster who shares your Miyako love to chime in shows how your bias has blinded you to any open argument I or anyone else can make.

  • November 27, 2007 at 8:39 amyahiko

    I read everything you say and I understand what you say, I just don’t agree with some of the things you say. I don’t have to comment on what you try to get deep into. I like to get straight to the point. And since my favorite arc is the Hiro/Miyako/Kei, and routing for Miyako, I’m going to back her up. I compare the two females and they are nothing a like. Like I said before the only thing that they share is Hiro’s presence and trying say to win his heart. They differ in trying to win Hiro’s love. Kei does wrong things out of jealousy and Miyako does not want to disappear from his heart. So far she has done nothing to push Kei and Hiro away.. Kei has no clue what Miyako is going through. Vice versa. But the thing with Miyako she did not ask to be ignored by her parents, but Kei had a choice to make when they were kids. You right it’s not her fault for what happened to her sister, but it was her choice to not tell Hiro her feelings, due to her choices in the past. It’s the present now and dwelling on the past only make things worse. And that’s what Kei don’t realize. Holding back your own feelings because of guilt is really unhealthy. Kei either need to step up to the plate before it’s too late. But we’ll find out what happens sooner or later.

    Oh and I never comment on Chihiro/Renji because I don’t have an interest in their story. I just wish that they stop making this anime always focused on them two all of the time. But than again maybe the few episodes that remain will be focused on Hiro/Miyako/Kei/Kyosuke.

  • November 27, 2007 at 8:57 amAle

    Yet no one even brings that up with her? I understand you guys are bias, so I’ll just let it slide, heh.

    I don’t really have so much love for Miyako as you think. I accept her obsession with Hiro and I do think she needs to mature as well, but she’s not done any of the moves Kei has. Yes, she made him promise to go on a date with him, but only after Kei went and attacked her. And I disagree with your views on what she did too, the cellphone thing may not directly hurt Miyako but it does make her think that Hiro doesn’t give a damn about her, and the other clearly hurt her.

    It wouldn’t take much to flip Kei’s and Miyakos role, having Kei be more “right” and Miyako be in the “wrong” without even changing any of their actions in these past 3-4 eps.

    I disagree, she should just take it to Hiro even if that was the case. I’d have always viewed Kei’s actions as wrong, although they can be more or less justifiable due to the situation. Here I don’t think they really are, I don’t see why Miyako has to pay with her pain because of Kei’s immaturity and childhood traumas. That’s why I can empathize but not really sympathize, although I do ultimately hope the best for her.

  • November 27, 2007 at 1:06 pmDr. Joe Stan

    @GP:

    Very interesting. However, your diction is incorrect. The knee-jerk reaction you refer to is a reflex, and reflexes are automatic. Which is essentially what I wished to imply with “instinct.”

    I do feel that Kei tries to dictate what Hiro does. She just isn’t successful. Absence of evidence of the result does not imply evidence of absence of the initial action. She has told him to go to school more. Indirectly, she has told Miyako to stay away from Hiro so that Hiro can focus on school. In Episode 8, it appears that Hiro and Kei argue about who should do what.

    Kei’s actions can also be considered a proactive attempt to stop the Hiro-Miyako relationship. All of Kei’s actions to disrupt the formation of Hiro-Miyako couple are all taken before there are any signs of a relationship, which is, by definition, proactive.

    People are inherently unequal. That’s why there is a discussion about who is more wrong, Miyako or Kei. If they were equal, everyone would be indifferent about who Hiro chooses or what each female does. Since people are unequal, it is thus inevitable that if there is to be a relationship (and it being a monogamous one), that one of the females will lose. My opinion is that Kei will lose.

    What you suggest about “…show Hiro and Kei together more and with a closer relationship (Kei has let Hiro know how she feels from the start of the show)…” implies changing the whole story. That’s beyond our control. All of us must conduct our reasoning based on what has happened thus far, and change it as more information is revealed.

  • November 27, 2007 at 3:28 pmGP

    I was talking about a hypothetical change to the show, and it’s a minor change early on, if from the start Kei has confessed to Hiro or Hiro already just knows it (we don’t see a confession but it’s happend) then even fallowing the episodes as they are from the start without making any animation or line changes means that the actions as they have been so far suddenlly become justifide. It doesn’t change the whole story really, just one plot point.

    And knee-jerk was the wrong word on my part. What I was trying to point out that before she deleted anything she felt mad out of jealousy. It wasn’t an automatic reaction, it was driven by emotion and not instinct. If she wasn’t jealous/mad she wouldn’t have done that.

    And going on with your technical breakdown, sure by definition they seem proactive, but Miyako asking Hiro and making him promise to go out with her on the day of the game was also proactive wasn’t it? Because as you say, there is no sign of a relationship so why bring up the game before you ask him out? As for Kei trying to dictate, yeah a bit wiith regards to him going to school more, but that’s minor really, he doesn’t listen and she doesn’t down right force him to go. Wanting him to finish school isn’t wrong now is it? Even when he does go to school they’re not together at all, we only see it a bit after school in the gym in one episode. So trying to get him to go so she can be with him more doesn’t seem to hold up either.

    The first part with Miyako and letting him go to school more was, as the episode shows, just a cover. That’s really got nothing to do with Hiro directly, just a silly excuse that Kei tries to use. It’s part of her thinking that she can’t confess to him and be happy. After she moves on from her guilt that keeps her back she confrunts Miyako that second time to make herself known. Until then Miyako never thought about Kei at all, and wrote her off (like everyone else it seems).

    Is kei in the wrong, yes, I don’t try to say otherwise. I simply point out that her actions are driven by deep emotions that stem from what happend as kids. It’s also the same case for Miyako. So they are similure like I’ve said often. And saying Miyako couldn’t do anything to get attention from her parents is wrong. You can always speekup so why didn’t she? It’s just shown that she sits there and lets it all happen. Kei tried to make a change and we see that it resaulted in Chihiro getting hurt. So yes, they DO share the same type of trauma. And while Miyako doesn’t have anything holding her back at the start, she still never makes her feelings clear to Hiro. She just sits around him like Kei has all this time. She asked him out on a date first, so she’s ahead yes. heh And with 5 episodes left, it really doesn’t take much to shift things at this point. While it looks like we’re going for a Hiro x Miyako ending you can never know. At this point if Kei finally confessess it’d have a bigger impact on Hiro than if Miyako does imo.

  • November 27, 2007 at 4:31 pmAle

    I don’t think she has moved on from her guilt. If anything, I think that her telling those things to Miyako, and then going on to do others like deleting her messages and lying about Hiro, are clear indicators that she’s not gotten rid of her guilt at all.

    Had she gotten rid of her guilt, why’d she bother with Miyako? She’d be honest with Hiro instead. It’s precisely because she can’t get rid of her guilt that she won’t confess and that she’s taking these actions many of us dislike. Miyako’s kinda similar in that they share childhood traumas, yeah. But I have yet to see her go out and bother Kei because of them. She probably hasn’t fully thought about the consequences either, but the harm’s still there.

    I hope you can understand my reasoning at least, even if we can’t see eye to eye on it. I don’t really hate or adore Kei or Miyako. I just prefer Miyako because I think right now, at this point in time, she’s a better person than Kei, that’s all. But all Kei has to do to grow up and become better is forgive herself and realize she’s making the exact same mistake. I’m sure she will.

    As for winning Hiro? I think she might be a bit late for that…looking at the big picture tells me Miyako will win. Kei has another suitor, the symbolism kinda pointed to the MiyakoxHiro pairing, the MiyaMiya HiroHiro pun…well, that’s what I think they’re aiming for, at least.

  • November 28, 2007 at 8:53 amSol Falling

    hahaha. Disgusting, really.

    All you people saying “Miyako is a better person” and deciding that Kei’s actions should “blow up in her face”. Really, who are you to judge? Why do you get to decide who is a better person? Establish to me that you’re some kind of omniscient, morally irrefutable being. Let he who bears no sins throw the first stone.

    Dr. Joe Stan’s got a point. Kei’s acting out of instinct. Guess what? Miyako is too. They’re both acting on base emotions which they cannot control, in a manner which is harmful to themselves and others. Why does Miyako get the benefit of the doubt? Because her parents abandoned her, oh boohoo.

    boohoo indeed. GP’s got the general idea, though Miyako probably will be the one to get Hiro in the end.

  • November 28, 2007 at 11:27 amAle

    Uhh…and who are you to tell people they can’t have an opinion?

    Whether Miyako is a better person or not is nothing but an opinion based on my morals and beliefs. I never called it definite. On the other hand, you’re complaining because people are giving opinions.

    I, you, everyone has the right to have one.

    I’m not even going to comment on the “because her parents abandoned her” because that means that you either didn’t read my posts, or you are avoiding the point on purpose.

  • November 28, 2007 at 2:09 pmkei-kun

    Ef can’t be compared with School Days. Ef is a psychological anime disguised in romance anime. School Days simply was a harem story with some virtues but we can’t exaggerate. The Nice Boat Era must finish now.

  • November 28, 2007 at 2:14 pmJason Isenberg

    Why does it make me feel like the bike part with Kei and Kyou is similar to Haruhi and Kyon? The bike part, her face on the camera how obnoxious she is and the whole thing just fits so nicely…*shakes head* oh man, its getting good! Chihiro…damnit she was so close of…getting closer to Renji but she overexerted herself T_T. As for Miyako, I’m a personal fan of hers I’m glad she got her bearings back. Its time for her to fight for Hiro ;D.

  • November 28, 2007 at 3:30 pmyahiko

    Sol falling regardless of what you say people are always going to express their opinions in what they feel and believe what’s right to them. As for me you can say what you want, because my opinion on the anime is always going to be the same, that’s if you read my post.

  • November 28, 2007 at 7:10 pmqwertypoiuy

    its turning into a masterpiece
    and no Chihiro story isnt weaker than Hiro/Miyako/Kei
    much moooooore deep thought was put in it

  • November 29, 2007 at 1:15 amMary

    @ yahiko (sorry for the late reply)

    If you had read my post thoroughly you would have seen the following lines: “Not saying Miyako’s bad of course; Miyako’s fine. She just doesn’t appeal to me as much as Kei does.” Did I say I hated Miyako, or that Miyako did something wrong? So I don’t understand why you seem to be asking me what Miyako did wrong when I never once said that I disliked her. I said Miyako was FINE but I found Kei to be more APPEALING.

    Anyway, let us all keep in mind that everyone has their own opinion about things. Some people like Kei more and others like Miyako more. Let’s all respect that. This is mine: I think Kei’s motive for “hurting” Miyako is that she is scared of losing what she has- her relationship with Hiro. She’s seeing Miyako as a threat to their relationship and wants to erase her from preventing their relationship to change. I think that’s her motive, but I’m not extremely sure. And if Hiro knew about the girls’ actions of course he’d choose Miyako- after all, she is portrayed as the “good” one.

    And isn’t Miyako also immature and suffering from a childhood trauma? She may not be as immature as Kei would seem but she’s still immature as well – the whole promising Hiro to be with her is what I think of as proof. The two girls both have to grow up and get over their childhood trauma to succeed- especially Kei. Though I think her trauma was worse because she indirectly caused her sister’s accident. My opinion is that Kei will “lose” too. But so? I still like her more, and because of that. One day, I want to watch an anime where the childhood friend/ bad girl wins the guy.

  • November 29, 2007 at 6:25 amAle

    Watch the first season of DC then.

  • November 29, 2007 at 6:26 amAle

    Because Nemu fits both things you want, I mean.

  • November 29, 2007 at 1:57 pmyahiko03

    But if your in to the inlove with a family member type than watch Canvas 2. I hate watching things like that. Cousins inlove with another cousin

  • October 10, 2009 at 8:07 pmDimeric

    Pick Kei and get her blonde lesbian friend too. The other one doesn’t want to be alone which means you’ll have 3. 4 even if you mistake Kei for her sister a few times and play innocent. xD Renji can help, after all, 4 girls are hard to please alone.

    Cameraman can go back with President girl who I feel bad for. She was like written out of the story even tho she’s the one the cameraman guy should be with.

  • August 3, 2010 at 9:50 pmmelissa

    Why does everyone always want the childhood friend, adopted sister, and the cousin to win in romantic animes. i mean we see SOOOOO many childhood romances in western shows like Danny Phantom, Kim Possible, Zoey 101, and Ned’s survival guide. Just because they have been with the guy longer doesn’t mean they have to have romantic feelings for them.