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Girls und Panzer – 06

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「一回戦、白熱してます!」 (Ikkaisen, Hakunetsu Shitemasu!)
“The First Battle Reaches Its Climax”

At long last, after two excruciatingly long weeks we have the continuation of Oarai’s battle against Saunders. It’s been a hard wait – Girls und Panzer is easily one of the most enjoyable series airing this season. Even if their victory was pretty much set in stone (they could hardly be knocked out in the very first round of the tournament), there was a desire to see exactly how they would manage to turn things around despite the odds against them. And they certainly did turn them around, in a pretty spectacular manner too!

It’s ironic really – Arisa’s use of dirty tactics is probably what ultimately led to Saunders’ loss. While the amazing tank battles are one of the biggest draws in Girls und Panzer, I find myself really enjoying learning more about the characters themselves and seeing how their mentalities clash. On the one hand we have those like Arisa, who treat these battles as though they were no different to war, always willing to resort to dirty tactics and doing whatever it takes to win. But on the other hand, we have those like Kei – those who see it for what it really is, a sport in which good sportsmanship is just as important as winning. Saunders’ original plan for the battle was to crush Oarai with sheer numbers. If Arisa hadn’t been discovered intercepting communications, Oarai probably wouldn’t have managed to ambush their flag tank leading to Kei’s discovery of the use of unfair tricks under her command. Given their original strategy, she probably wouldn’t have felt the need to even the odds out of ‘fairness’ in repayment for her subordinate’s actions and Oarai would’ve been crushed under the weight of ten Sherman tanks. To be honest, I feel a little bad for Arisa (nah, I don’t really) – it’s one thing to use underhanded tactics and win, it’s another to use them and lose. Some things can almost be justified if they bring victory.

Part of the loss probably comes from how much the other team actually underestimated Oarai. Even after the first ambush, Arisa failed to suspect that they might be on to her tricks. Things could have gone very differently if she’d realised how they managed to formulate such a clever ambush. But really, I can understand why none of the other teams wanted to take Oarai seriously. Erika said it last week, insulting Oarai’s worthiness to be in the tournament. Unlike all the other teams, Oarai lacks a theme – they’re not modelled on any single country. Rather than have tanks which match those of a given country, they have an assortment of old tanks that don’t really put on a unified front. I can see how this would be frowned upon by the other teams who even go so far as to match the personalities and lifestyles of the countries they’re mimicking. Heck, Darjeeling’s sense of humour is so British that even I can barely keep up with what she’s saying at times!

Miho’s wish for another tank during the battle could well be foreshadowing. There’s still a team of three characters who have yet to be introduced – the rather odd group shown in the OP. My gut feeling is that they will join up with the others at some point, giving Oarai a sixth tank to work with. It’s pretty cool to see just how strong Miho can be as a commander. Of all the girls from Oarai, she has the biggest reason to be affected by the situation they got themselves into – she should be the most severely affected by it given her past experiences. Yet she’s able to overcome it in order to lead them to an eventual victory with a rather risky gambit. That’s some pretty strong willpower right there. She certainly deserves Kei’s newfound respect (and possibly even love).

Girls und Panzer tends to do a pretty damn good job with atmosphere. It has the militaristic and awe-inspiring feel nailed down for the tank battles, easily standing alongside (and frequently ahead of) other similar anime. But it’s the humour that really adds something amazing – it never takes itself too seriously. All of the cuts are just the right length, no joke feels like it’s running on too long and even the scenes used for effect never feel like they’re overdone to the point of losing their impact. Case in point, when the volleyball team runs across Saunders’ flag tank, we have the awkward staring contest before anything happens. These scenes are effective and funny when handled correctly. Some studios fail when it comes to this – they draw these moments out for too long at which point you start drumming your fingers impatiently while waiting for it to end. I can remember Kyoani doing it quite frequently in Nichijou and a recent episode of K did exactly the same thing. It makes me unreasonably glad that Girls und Panzer knows when to stop before it reaches this point. Of course, we can’t mention atmosphere without saying something about the awesome juxtaposition of Arisa suffering from several stages of grief (Denial, anger, and depression) with some crazy bluesy music!

There is one issue I have with this episode, or rather with the end of this episode and how it will likely lead into the next. I have never really been a fan of drama for the sake of drama, and that’s certainly what the final development of the episode feels like. The obstacle that needs to be overcome should be the tournament itself, not the issue of a potentially missing driver keeping them from being able to participate in the tournament at all. It’s a ploy that I find overused in anime – to introduce obstacles to the main obstacle itself with drama that often feels forced and unnecessary. The up-side is that there’s no guarantee yet that it will take this route even if it looks like it might, and it lets us see that Maho isn’t quite as evil and unfeeling as her exterior suggests. It’s entirely possible that her loaning of their team’s Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 will allow Mako to make the journey and return before it actually causes any significant problems.

With the revelation of who’s advancing onwards to the next round, we have a new team to keep an eye on. It was already a sure thing that Maho and her German team would be advancing (I’m still positive that Maho vs Miho will be the final showdown), but this was our first time actually seeing the Russian team, Pravda, in action. From the looks of things, they’re a rather brutal and merciless group!

tl;dr: @MoombaDS – Spectacular tank battles, clever humour, and clashing viewpoints. These are the things that make #GaruPan one of the best shows this season!

Random thoughts:

  • The volleyball team captain needs to learn to stop using volleyball terminology in tank warfare! It makes no sense at all!
  • This week the theme for the US team was The Army Goes Rolling Along.
  • Wow, I thought Momo was just a crazy fiery killing machine. To see her lose heart so easily…
  • Tanks are safe they said! The interior plating keeps you from harm inside they said! Dude. That looks like fire. Fire is not safe!
  • In the end it was a well deserved victory, not without its losses. It’s amazing to see how well Oarai are coming along with their tank operation.

Full-length images: 27.

 

ED1.06 Sequence

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ED: 「Enter Enter MISSION !」 by 渕上舞、茅野愛衣、尾崎真実、中上育実、井口裕香 (Fuchigami Mai, Kayano Ai, Ozaki Mami, Nakagami Ikumi, Iguchi Yuka)

Preview

Girls und Panzer   06   Preview 01
November 20, 2012 at 6:38 am
177 comments »
  • November 20, 2012 at 6:41 amCybersteel

    That climax!!!

  • November 20, 2012 at 6:49 amLurker

    Heck, Darjeeling’s sense of humour is so British that even I can barely keep up with what she’s saying at times!

    Don’t worry. Even Orange doesn’t understand Darjeeling’s sense of humor and she’s “British”.

    As for Arisa, I have to tip my hat to Aya Hirano for a job well done. She still has it. I hope she gets more roles after GuP.

    • November 20, 2012 at 6:55 amShinmarizu

      She can certainly get into character, that’s for sure. Nice to see.

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:08 amfragb85

      Hirano really did sell that role. Arisa had one of the most hilarious freak-outs I’ve seen in a while. Whatever you think of her, she really is great when it comes to insane, parroting, rambling characters. Just look at Haruhi.

      • November 21, 2012 at 12:16 amIzzard

        I kept on thinking Lucy Heartfilia.

    • November 21, 2012 at 2:22 amBenigmatica

      As for Arisa, I have to tip my hat to Aya Hirano for a job well done. She still has it. I hope she gets more roles after GuP.

      Agreed to that, but I doubt that she would ever stage a comeback soon…

  • November 20, 2012 at 6:57 amKevin Yamagata

    The volleyball team captain needs to learn to stop using volleyball terminology in tank warfare! It makes no sense at all!

    Totally agree with that, though using volley serve to toss the flare is kinda awesome.

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:32 amArashi Yamato

      ^that was probably the craziest and most badass maneuver I’ve ever seen in a girl themed series. Spiking smoke flares (the first spike has volley-buchou-san outside of the tank) to bait and defend themselves from a more superior tank was pretty cool. Of all the tank crews, (besides the MCs and the History Group) Ahiru-san team is probably the most flexible in terms of adapting. Guess their volleyball background helps in a team fight.

      • November 20, 2012 at 10:58 amdaikama

        I agree. I thought spiking the smoke flares was a pretty cool move – effective as well. It’s a shame that the volleyball team got stuck with such a crappy tank. They definitely have a fighting spirit.

  • November 20, 2012 at 6:59 amdrebner

    I love this show and I don’t know why. It’s dumb on so many levels, but I find myself enjoying every moment of it. Maybe it falls into the “guilty pleasure” category, but I found the two-week gap almost too long to wait for my next dose of Girls und Panzer.

  • November 20, 2012 at 7:00 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

    So many things in this episode made mey go happy. From the many memories of meeting enemy tanks unawares in WoT to hell, that chase scene.

    I can’t pin down what was amazing without re-posting my own blog impressions here. Definitely a show to watch.

    I am honestly scared at Pravda and Black Forest Peak. Granted the opponents they were shown to have decimated are running tanks that were great between the wars, but still. Both seem rather brutal at their approach to Panzerfahren so we shall see.

    I do like that BFP have at least begrudgingly accepted Ooarai as competitors, but nothing more. Letting Mako and Saori fly out to the city-ship to tend to Mako’s grandmother was good, but it showed the massive tension between sisters. While I do feel such a thing seemed tacked on, like Moomba, it also serves to show that yeah, maybe her sister isn’t cruel and Waffen SS-like.

    As for Hana. Well, Hana is less Machine Gun Cupid like Saori, but Sniper. One shot, one kill. In both Panzerfahren and love. Am amused though at Saori and Yukari’s expressions at Miho being hugged.

    Great write-up Moomba, mine isn’t as polished or sophisticated, but it serves it’s own purpose. I am amazed at the rolling box formation. The girls really have come a long way since the mock battle with St. Gloriana, and very impressed at Team Rabbit, even though they were on the receiving end of that rather sexy Ordinance QF 17pdr. Naomi isn’t that bad look either. -cough-

    • November 20, 2012 at 7:54 amc2710

      PLENTY of WoT moments in this ep…

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:49 amSgtKurtz

        I even sharpen my SPG skill for Marder II. Even now, still getting more XP for Hetzer. Right now leveling with early production of PzIIIA

      • November 20, 2012 at 10:38 amGermanguy

        what i dislike in WoT is that, if your “Enemy” is outside your “radio Range” and some Ally got killed, you still lose “sight” to him even on clear field. So, as if he “power up” his cloaking device…

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:51 amSgtKurtz

        Thanks for the tip….all my panzer in WoT had the radio upgrade to Lv II and III. So increase the radio skill which means can reveal the hidden tank….awesome!!

    • November 20, 2012 at 11:04 amErochichi

      Black Forest Peak`s Tigers against 1 WW – 30`s totally obsolete French tanks? Totally meaningless, too big discrepancy in equipment.
      Wonder what opponent Pravda did beat there, they have T34/85`s, so anything older than panzers from 1942 or later are without a chance too.

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:49 amSgtKurtz

        Bro….are you sure that is French tank? Because when I watched very closely, it nearly as Italian Medium tank. I did post about that part.

      • November 20, 2012 at 12:44 pmErochichi

        You can be right, but the tank farthest away is a Renault FT 17. Now i guess they are Japanese tanks, because of camouflage colors. IJA had FT 17`s over a period before WW2.

  • November 20, 2012 at 7:12 amDynellen

    “Wow, I thought Momo was just a crazy fiery killing machine. To see her lose heart so easily…”

    Well according to the chart (http://i.imgur.com/BnsJ4.jpg) she’s the dumbass of the show. So I guess she’s easily influenced by events.

    • November 20, 2012 at 7:55 amKit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat

      Awesome chart, is it fan-made or official stuff ?

      Got to love that all four girls of the History Group are firmly in the dumbass category, it explains a lot about their former customization of the StuG…

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:12 amc2710

      Aww…. No love for Erwin?

      • November 20, 2012 at 8:39 amfragb85

        I really like Erwin and the History Club but lets face it, they aren’t exactly the brightest bulbs. As Kit stated, in the battle with Gloriana they negated the StUG’s low profile with gaudy banners.

      • November 20, 2012 at 8:46 amc2710

        That was certainly hilarious…

        Now everytime if its urban map on WoT and my tank passes thru small alleys, I always remember the “StuG joke”

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:52 amSgtKurtz

        StuG will come in handy if you know where to hide and ambush. Most feared thing for StuG is overwhelming by other enemy tank. I seen KV 1 supreme fire power. Its’ amaze me to no end

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:26 amdaikama

        Very nice chart, but I think it’s a little too early for a definitive rank of Ourai team’s intelligence as well as being too harsh on Erwin the rest of the history team. JMO, but I’d definitely put Saori more in the “dumbass” category than Erwin. The history team certainly has its share of personality quirks, but that’s what makes it great

        Sure, the “StuG III low profile” comment during the St. Gloriana fight was stupid (and funny :D), but IMO it’s offset by earlier using the flags as camouflage in the same episode. Erwin also did a good job with the ambush in Ep 05.

      • November 20, 2012 at 2:56 pmc2710

        @kurtz – My 3601′s 88mm eats StuGs for snack… 2 shot kill for well aimed shots

      • November 20, 2012 at 5:58 pmZhinvu

        I remember seeing a Girls Und Panzer character poll somewhere and first place was a tug-o-war between Erwin and Yukari. The site is long gone now though.

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:15 pmSgtKurtz

        I’ll be damn…..seriously I wanna meet you at WoT.

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:32 pmc2710

        add me Kurtz…

        cruiser2710 on SEA server

    • November 20, 2012 at 9:07 amMoomba

      Interesting find! I don’t think I’ve seen this chart before. Seems fairly accurate even if I’m a little sad to see Team C so far into the dumbass category. It feels like Miho should be a little higher on the genius scale though!

  • November 20, 2012 at 7:33 amamrol

    so now after blasting one of the sherman tank cue radio sherman spy person going on why yet oh awkward meet with one of the oarai tanks cue the chase.

    radio sherman running from all 5 oarai tank with radio spy female going panic-breakdown-WHY they going to get ya mode til here more sherman tanks to chase in.

    with shooting & tank down cue one snipe shot down goes all the sherman hurray they win but reizei’s family member got ill til miho’s sister gve reizei ride to her grandparents.

    • November 20, 2012 at 9:54 amSgtKurtz

      Even in WoT, this tactic won’t work at all. I used my Pz3 A as a forerunner and all side full of enemy tank. You can’t simply hit fast moving tank. It’s proven un-effective.

      • November 20, 2012 at 10:41 amGermanguy

        if you can make it into his back, then its easy. Well depend that he stay in “forward” mode

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:54 amSgtKurtz

        that will depend on “forward/advance” team. If they able make a hole in enemy defense, much easier detecting the SPG and Howitzer Support. That when rushing in, of course

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:57 amGermanguy

        If someone is on the way to the Arty, then The Arty should switch into “Drive” mode and “Auto-Aim” this “Scout” tank, if you lucky you get 1 Hit Kill.. Auto Aim is soooooo “nasty”. in WW2 there where no AutoAim…

      • November 20, 2012 at 12:03 pmSgtKurtz

        Interesting….I bet Your Panzer in WoT already higher level than mine. What’s your ID in WoT? Mine is Kurtzland.

      • November 20, 2012 at 3:07 pmc2710

        @Germanguy – what auto aim? How do you activate it?

      • November 20, 2012 at 8:05 pmLordip

        I know that in a tank with traversing turret you right-click your mouse button to activate auto aim… but in an arty which needed to traverse the whole vehicle, I don’t think it works. Which arty you play? i currently playing the grille, which in TD mode is auto suicide, what with that excruciating looong reload time.

      • November 20, 2012 at 8:09 pmNights

        If i remember correctly (it has been a very long time since my gaming desktop died) it was left click? It would lock onto to the target if your currently aiming at a tank and track the tank until you cancel it or you lose sight of it.

      • November 20, 2012 at 8:43 pmc2710

        @ Lordip – I kinda stopped playing arty since Strumpanzer II. I’ve not touched my elite marder for a long while now and just a month ago, I sold off my Hetzer to make space for a Tiger (which till today I still haven’t use yet)

        Is auto aim that good? Especially if firing in open sight and you don’t have the luxury of time to focus in and fire? I tend to go to sniper mode and manually aim my shots.

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:02 pmLordip

        @c2710: I only played arty and TD before… finds that auto aim not much use. Only now I’m levelling up my medium tank.. just got Matilda and researching it up, auto aim helps a lot when firing on the move, tho I still tend to snipe a lot.

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:16 pmAkizuki09

        It’s possible to hit a fast moving tank so long as you manual aim, but a small tank such as the T-50-2 moving at almost 65-70 km/h is damn near impossible at times with the higher cal guns beyond the standard 105 or 120.

        @C2710
        Do not, ever rely on the auto-aim. Late tier tanks require you to learn penetration zones such at the commander hatch or the MG/Driver hatch in the front, some of these zones are barely the size of a person’s hand. It’s best to force yourself to learn what your tank cannot pen and back off rather then take everything frontal. Later tiers you’ll have TDs dealing 800~950 dmg and arty dealing almost 1.5k~2k, so learning how to position yourself to use the gun while seeking cover is vital. If your in a TD or arty learn to use lock your tanks position using X key to prevent it from turning (which exposes your position, this can sometimes lead to players completely driving past you if you remain stationary) and enabling you to look around more without fear of losing your aiming time down range.

        Regarding the episode – I LOVED it, thought it was hilarious giving how many times I’ve ran into other players and just froze. I am curious though on how the balancing is going to work if Oarai get paired up with some serious threats like the T-34-85 or Tigers, in which case none of the tanks have a chance against head on.

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:18 pmc2710

        @ Lordip – I’m currently saving money to operate the Tiger… Think I’m gonna go and complete the 1st skill set for the Marder team…

        One thing I like about manual aim is that you can adjust your fire by following where the shell lands and also gives you a better estimate for shooting ahead of those demonic light tanks

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:21 pmSgtKurtz

        I didn’t know there’s an auto aim. Now I know but for some reason, I shouldn’t rely on it. Maybe on SPG might be different. So far, I just using left click mouse for firing. Rite now using fully upgrade of Marder II to gain more XP for Hetzer. I gain lot of point for penetration and detecting enemy tank.

        Maybe I use auto aim on Pz3.

      • November 21, 2012 at 2:24 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        Note: Never use AutoAim.

      • November 23, 2012 at 9:15 amSgtKurtz

        that autoaim on right click does helping me but never use frequently. Autoaim only works on static tank that use to be un move or doing target lock on other tank. That’s what I been experience on the use of Auto-aim. I believe or other has other opinion; auto-aim maybe a bit useful for SPG or any other tank.

        My Pz III(A) score multiple credit on penetration and thus score on credit slowly down, weak the tank and cripple their amour percentage. I may not score a kill but helping other destroy their enemy…my worst enemy so far are the KV 1 and US Heavy tank.

  • November 20, 2012 at 7:47 amblack

    I thought MoMo will seal the deal this battle by lucky shot
    Though I’s wrong

    but nice fight indeed

    • November 20, 2012 at 9:55 amSgtKurtz

      She need more practice and training in shooting. If she do that, she’ll be an excellent shooter.

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:00 pmVaans

      It must be her glasses because it’s only one piece. Someone get her a new one.

  • November 20, 2012 at 7:55 amRenegade_Saber

    And to think I dropped this series’ manga at the 1st chapter because I thought it was no good. I was glad that the anime proved me wrong. I had my reservations with girls running around in tanks , though I had no problems with girls and guns animes such as GSG and Upotte . I inexplicably judged Girls und Panzer as another Strike Witches lookalike , not being a fan of SW (I apologize btw) I decided to put this series on low priority. Thankfully the interesting story , decent art , and action won me over . Truly this series is one unexpected gem (for me anyways) for this year . Definitely Looking forward to more Panzerfahren , and specially episodes as this one . Panzer Vor!

  • November 20, 2012 at 8:03 amfragb85

    It seems that GuP is now my must watch show of the season. I never expected that.

    The first half was absolutely hilarious. From the awkward pause of the between the Sherman Flag and the Volleyball Team, to the wacky chase, and Arisa’s insane ramblings, I couldn’t help but keep a smile on my face. The only thing it needed to make it perfect was the to hum the Yakety Sax. ANd can someone get the Volleyball team a better tank? They’re to awesome to drive that POS Type-89.

    It didn’t take long before Oorai gets back in to trouble. As I expected the Firefly was dangerous, but it was made worse by the fact that Naomi is an AWESOME gunner. Her shots were nearly perfect! I loved that the battle actually has a sense of tension, especially when Momo finally cracked (that was the first I felt like hugging her). It made the victory of Oorai much more satisfying when it came down to Hana’s victory shot.

    P.S. is That a jelly Yukari I spot? (Yes, I’m totally shipping her with Miho)

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:10 amc2710

      Curse you fragb86… Now my yuri sensors start tingling all thanks to that screen shot that you posted =P

      • November 20, 2012 at 8:30 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        You mean they weren’t before? Do you remember her having a happy expresison on when Miho’s measurements were read out during the uniform fitting? XD

      • November 20, 2012 at 8:46 amc2710

        Didn’t take notice of it

      • November 20, 2012 at 8:49 amc2710

        The round looks AP-ish to me…

        Went to dig up a 1/35 model of it

    • November 20, 2012 at 9:16 amMoomba

      Eagerly awaiting a youtube video in which someone splices Yakety Sax in with that scene!

      It was certainly an episode to endear Momo to me a lot more after her attitude in some of the more recent episodes. I guess she’s just the kind of person who really gets caught up in the moment and lets her emotions carry her away.

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:54 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        Working on it.

    • November 20, 2012 at 10:30 amVaans

      lol. Miho’s expression is priceless when she got hugged. Come of to think of it. Miho’s breast size is the same as Kei’s.

      and Yeah, that’s definitely a jelly looking Yukari. Now, where’s my Yuri glasses when I need them?

      Naomi may be an awesome gunner, but Hana’s epic shot is the best I’ve seen. Hitting a moving target at long distances is difficult. Their training paid off.

      • November 20, 2012 at 12:40 pmPen3

        Not to mention it was a slow-velocity L24

    • November 21, 2012 at 1:27 amewok40k

      17pdr + ace gunner = dead panzer… Naomi managed to score all of Saunders kills this match!
      Kei evidently knows where to put her best sniper, apparently…

  • November 20, 2012 at 8:08 amc2710

    FINALLY IT’S HERE! One truly worth waiting.

    I must say that there were plenty of WoT references… I truly loved the WTFH moment when the Type 89 met the flag tank and the subsequent chase that followed.

    I won’t say more about the episode since Moomba has done a grest job with it.

    Anyway, here’s few random thoughts –

    The T34-85 and the Tigers are practically “one tank show” going up against their opponents

    Is that a Polish team that went against the Russians?

    1st we saw the US prime mover (back in their fight against St Gloriana), 2nd we saw the Dragon Wagon and now FAMO!

    FA 223 chopper… Amazing

    You know that this’s ain’t your ordinary military anime with the amount of detailed research that they’ve put and the incredible TV debut of tanks such as StuG III and T34-85

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:32 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

      I took the time to go frame-by-frame on the Panzer IV kill. You can see the tracks basically not touch any of the roadwheels and whatnot. Following the round from the Panzer IV was a VERY nice touch, I’m sure some WoTer or RC commentator will tell us what sort of round it is or something.

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:59 amSgtKurtz

        just normal one.

      • November 20, 2012 at 10:08 amSgtKurtz

        This is from the wiki regarding your question ” As main armament, the vehicle mounted the Kampfwagenkanone 37 L/24 (KwK 37 L/24) 75 mm (2.95 in) tank gun, which was a low-velocity gun designed to mainly fire high-explosive shells.[13] Against armored targets, firing the Panzergranate (armor-piercing shell) at 430 metres per second (1,410 ft/s)”

        All I can says, PzIV using a normal armor-piercing shell. Although its’ normal, all depend on gunner firing skill. Good thing for Hana when she took her time to concentrate and focus. I still amaze the ways she says before firing…” Its’ like how to balance proper arrangement of the flower “. I nominated her as PzIV sharpshooter Gunner.

        here the link of wiki;
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_IV

  • November 20, 2012 at 8:08 amMarina2

    Alisa is so LOL when she is in panic.

    She goes from “Fire! Fire! Kill them!” to “My sherman is the best” to “F.ck you Oarai” and to “My love interest went for another girl” LOL

    She will get a lot of parody fanart for sure.

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:45 amGermanguy

      Well, that was for demonstrate her “Panic”

    • November 20, 2012 at 10:03 amVaans

      Poor Arisa, not only she gets chased by 5 tanks bent on destroying her tank, but gets rejected by the boy she likes…Nah!

  • November 20, 2012 at 8:16 amKit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat

    Another excellent episode that delivered all the good stuff.

    One highlight was indeed the awkward standoff between the Sherman Flag and the Duck Team. If you don’t blink, you can see that the Volleyball Captain very nearly flew off her tank when it accelerated, and then right after that Arisa nearly went ballistic herself in a very literal sense due to the 76mm gun blast. Arisa subsequent complete hysterical breakdown was hilarious to hear (and dat music !). Anyone can read on her lips to know what she was shouting at Miho ?

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:46 amGermanguy

      hehe, well. first we need to know. if that was “US” or a “Nippon” “bad Word” :)

      She was losing her Head, in other Words. She is in Panic, and running

      • November 20, 2012 at 10:12 amSgtKurtz

        In that situation, very common to be panic. Also her tank is the flag tank and of course, Panic is acceptable.

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:48 amc2710

      I actually went back to watch the episode again and during Arisa’s triade… She did say some thing about Oorai being slated for disbandment…

      Any takes on that?

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:12 amMoomba

        To me that seemed like nothing more than ranting and bravado while she went through her denial phase – an assumption that they would beat Oarai regardless and lead to their club being disbanded.

      • November 20, 2012 at 9:56 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        That’s one possibility. We still don’t know WHY Ooarai suddenly jumped into Panzerfahren unless we take the simplistic approach and say:

        “Hey, we got a Nishizumi aboard, let’s roll.”

        Which by the looks of this series, isn’t very likely, but a possibility still.

      • November 20, 2012 at 10:27 amMoomba

        Hmm you’re probably right. I seem to remember a moment of hesitation before the Saunders battle where one of the student council members was about to mention the consequences of losing only to be silenced by Anzu. There’s probably something bigger going on behind the scenes, though I can’t imagine what.

        But it could just be that they did decide to revive a lost art because they finally had someone with the skills necessary to lead. It may seem simplistic, but it does make some sense and the coincidence that it happened right when Miho transferred is a little suspicious.

        I’m sure they’ll enlighten us at some point!

      • November 20, 2012 at 10:56 amKit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat

        A very long shot, but…

        Could it be the Oorai Student Council reinstated Panzerfahren on Maho suggestion ? Either thinking it would be a waste for Miho to just quit, or believing it could help her somehow, or maybe atoning for something ? As of now, she has mostly been portrayed as evil by silent association with that bitchy second-in-command, mabe sh is a softy inside…

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:48 amdaikama

        There are hints throughout the episodes so far that Oarai’s performance will have important implications for the school. I could be completely wrong, but given the disbandment comment and the scene Moomba mentioned (Anzu silencing Yuzuko), I get the impression that something as serious as the Oarai school’s existence could be on the line.

        A poor tournament performance = the school closing down (though I have no idea of the underlying reason). Something that serious would explain why the Student Council put so much pressure on Miho to do Sensha-dō not to mention the elaborate Sensha-dō introduction for the student body.

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:49 amGermanguy

        Perhaps this is the “Secret” why the Older Sister is that “cold” to her. I bet my Pants, that this has something to do with this “Water Accident”. Perhaps someone has Died

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:52 amGermanguy

        “2nd in Command” was a little hint here for me…

      • November 20, 2012 at 12:41 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        Maho giving Miho the tough love kind of treatment (which I think isn’t the proper way to treat PTSD) makes some bit of sense. The Nishizumi name is revered and to have a promising young commander up and quit is bad. Granted, the tough love aspect is a long-shot since it would keep the family name intact, hell, even greater (a Nishizumi took a ragtag group of misfits and bested everyone) but it would deepen tension within the family.

        We’ll see, but I’m liking the Maho bribing Ooarai theory. Definately picking up the manga after the anime ends.

      • November 20, 2012 at 3:15 pmc2710

        I agree with all of your comments… We all know that often… Little hints are dropped here and there.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s done over here as well

      • November 20, 2012 at 10:53 pmyo

        The first episode mentions the world contest hosted every few years & that the Ministry of Education & Culture requested that all high schools and colleges bolster there tank programs. Even if Miho wasn’t around, I’d imagine they would try to bring back the program anyways. Miho being there seems to have only really pushed the progress milestones years earlier, since no one expected to enter into the national championship. Well, in addition to the behind-the-scenes mysteries.

  • November 20, 2012 at 8:57 amYoz

    Possible gun upgrade reference spotted! Pz4′s silhouette during the still shot from the commercial break shows a long barreled gun, can’t tell if it’s the 7.5cm KwK 40 L/48…

    • November 20, 2012 at 5:48 pmLonghaul

      Show Spoiler ▼

  • November 20, 2012 at 9:14 amSeedStriker

    Well, against all odds (specially the amazing shooting skill from Naomi with the Firefly) Oarai put the Freedom out of the tournament. Hands down for Hana with that amazing shot. With that gun, against a moving target, and the pressure of being targeted by a superior tank, our flower woman must have freon instead of blood. Deadly precision, no wonder. I wonder if Kei will make Alissa clean the toilet of the whole US Carrier…
    Oarai needs desperately newer tanks. Duck Team would be better fit with a Howitzer M5. There’s the issue that they find a french B1, but with the odd squad still out of sight, who knows.
    Maho put me in my place by showing that she’s more human than I thought (never doubt of a Rie-Rie character, my fault), and while the drama was out of place for what had happened in the battle, this can be used to know more about Mako (in contrast of the FORCED DRAMA that is currently runining Chuu2)

    • November 20, 2012 at 10:10 amSgtKurtz

      I just roughly believe there will be another new team joins in…..just roughly believe!

    • November 20, 2012 at 2:03 pmdaikama

      “Duck Team would be better fit with a Howitzer M5″

      M5 was a version of the Stuart light tank. I think you mean the M7 “Priest” self-propelled. Regardless, that’s not a good choice IMO because despite being powerful, a Howitzer is an artillery canon which is not designed for AT warfare. First, Howitzer is a low velocity canon designed for plunging fire (i.e. shell is shot skyward then drops on top). You want a high velocity, flat trajectory round for anti-tank warfare. That’s why you see longer barrels on tanks as the war progressed. Second, for calibers of any size, the charge (“gun powder”) is separate from the shell which requires more space to store munitions and reduces rate of fire.

      If Oarai didn’t already have the StuG III, I think an M-18 Hellcat would be an interesting, albeit not ideal, choice as replacement for the Type 89. It’s 76mm canon is not as powerful as the M-36′s 90mm as it was unable to penetrate Panther/Tiger front armor. Even so, it was more then enough for side/rear/turret kill shots and was highly successful against those two German tanks. The Hellcat’s speed (55-60mph road) makes it a fun, but deadly choice IMO. Using a “shoot & scoot” doctrine, the volleyball team could cause a lot of mayhem on the battle field… assuming their marksmanship improves.

      Sadly, it’s not just the “Duck Team” that needs better equipment. IMO, the only decent “tank” Oarai has is the StuG III Ausf. F, and I’m not sure if it even has the L48 canon. The Panzer IV would be fine if it was the Ausf. F2 or Ausf. G with the L43 canon. I really hope upgrades happen soon because it would be disappointing if every Oarai win was due to some “against all odds” lucky shot (e.g. Hana takes out a Tiger by placing a round at distance precisely at it’s most vulnerable spot).

      • November 20, 2012 at 3:27 pmc2710

        I’d say a fast and hard hitting tank for the volleyball team would suit them…

        If they swap for American TD would be fine… (Yea it’s one of those few demonicly fast tanks in WoT)

        Or maybe one of the British cruiser tanks…

      • November 20, 2012 at 3:29 pmc2710

        AAND SOMEONE SWAP THAT M3 MONSTROSITY!

        It’s practically shouting “EAT ME FOR ENTRÈ”

      • November 20, 2012 at 7:45 pmbear

        I’ve just been reading “The Tank Killers” about the Tank Destroyer Battalions in WWII so this is based on that book. While the Hellcat was fast, it had less armor than the M10. Some units preferred to keep the M10′s for that reason. Neither the M18 nor the M36 Jackson’s 90mm gun could penetrate the front armor of the Tigers despite the manufacturers claims. The use of HVAP rounds actually made more of difference than the 90mm gun from what the book implied. The problem with any of them is that they used an open turret design. Not sure I want to play this game without a “hardtop”, though these girls have no problem sticking their heads out while shots are raining all around them.

      • November 21, 2012 at 2:22 pmdaikama

        @Bear: Good information – thanks. Sounds like an interesting book as well.

        RE: The M10 vs M18, I’m not surprised that some preferred the additional protection of the M10. I suspect that the M10 was preferred in restricted situations like urban combat where an extra 1/2″ (12.7mm) of armor makes a difference against infantry heavy MG/grenade/motor fire and artillery. Still, the greater speed/mobility and smaller profile of the M-18 did offer some defensive advantages over the M10. Versus just about any tank let alone a Panther or Tiger, I suspect those advantages far outweigh any “protection” that same small increase in armor might provide.

        RE: the 76mm gun, frankly I’m a little surprised that there wasn’t a British version of the M18 with the 17 pound gun. That seems like a truly lethal combination to me. Despite the limitations of the 76mm gun, the M18 still was a very effective TD. In July 1944, the 630th Tank Destroyer Battalion reported destroying 53 Panthers & Tigers and 15 self propelled guns with only a loss of 17 of their M18s. M18 crews used it’s strong acceleration and mobility against the Panther & Tiger’s with their slow moving turrets to create more frequent flank & rear shot opportunities.

        I think having a single M18 team at a school works well in the GuP world. While the 76mm isn’t the best AT gun, it’s MUCH better than the M3, Type 89, 38(t) and Panzer IV Ausf D guns. Given the tournament’s large battlefields, the M18′s speed/acceleration & mobility really shine. I can’t think of a better recon/bait vehicle. Unlike the StuG III and similarly designed TDs, the rotating turret allows for return fire when running away/baiting. Response time for aiding team members in distress is reduced. Ambush chances might improve as well since slower tanks/TDs might not get into position in time. Essentially have it run around doing recon and creating confusion with hit and run tactics while the rest of the teams maneuver according to plan.

      • November 21, 2012 at 8:00 pmbear

        @daikama

        It’s the one book I could find on Tank Destroyers. I’ve always wondered about their use in WWII. As far as M18′s go, I think it had to do with the way they were used in Europe. A lot of time it seems that the fighting they did was not conducive to “shoot and scoot” since towards the end of the war they weren’t fighting in areas that lent themselves to massed tank warfare. The TD’s were being used for everything from indirect fire to infantry attack support. More like a cross between a self propelled gun and a tank. Of course if you’re going up against a Royal Tiger then the faster the better because you’re armor isn’t going to do you much good if your taking them on head on.

  • November 20, 2012 at 10:03 amHao

    just recently started watching, I was wondering (probably missed it) if is there any barrier of using more modern tanks?

    - Technology level? (simply doesn’t exist in their world)
    - Rules (too OP?)
    - Funding (But having city sized carrier and Panzerfahren seems like the main entertainment.)

    • November 20, 2012 at 11:57 amRoguespirit

      Modern tanks aren’t allowed, at least not in this league. The rules state that they can only use tanks in production or that had finished development by V-J Day: The end of WW II.

    • November 21, 2012 at 8:47 amSayuriUliana

      They don’t use modern tanks because of the rules, which state that only designs before August 15, 1945 can be used. Modern tanks do exist, as shown by the Type 10 MBT airdropped on the school in Episode 2, and the Type 74 MBT in one of Yukari’s album pics.

  • November 20, 2012 at 10:13 amArashi Yamato

    I don’t know if anyone has noticed but before the second coat of paint, the Oorai tanks had kanji numbers written on the them.. The Pz IV had a 六 (6) and another had 七 (7, I think it was the StuG). Considering they salvaged tanks from the old Oorai Senshado days, we can assume that at least an additional 2-4 tanks left to be found and will be added to Oorai. (The intro had the disciplinary group with a tank next to them too as another foreshadow)

    • November 20, 2012 at 12:42 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

      Considering it’s already an open secret that they obtain a:
      Show Spoiler ▼

      It’s not too far-fetched.

      • November 20, 2012 at 12:56 pmArashi Yamato

        Link to pic of “open secret” please.

      • November 20, 2012 at 2:03 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

      • November 20, 2012 at 2:14 pmArashi Yamato

        (O.o);;; another tank with a fixed 2nd cannon. Is this series originally a manga? I was under the impression it was an anime original and not based on a source material. On a side note, the Freshman Team seriously needs to make use of its 2nd cannon. It would’ve been perfect in that ambush they set up before that Saunders flag got reinforcements.

      • November 20, 2012 at 3:37 pmc2710

        My elite Marder 2 with the tier 5 gun eats the Char B1 for main course…

      • November 21, 2012 at 8:53 amSayuriUliana

        Girls Und Panzer is an anime-original franchise, with accompanying secondary media, a format so common these days. The manga shown here is an adaptation showing Yukari’s perspective of events. There are many details different between the manga and anime though even though they follow the same plot (ex. the manga has Mako be part of Ankou team from the beginning, whereas the anime has them pick up Mako mid-match), so it’s best to see the manga as an “alternate take”.

  • November 20, 2012 at 10:24 amSgtKurtz

    http://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2023.jpg

    I’m so moved, not only the surviving panzer were Germans and they implant of protecting the light tank 38(t). Its’ like Onee-sama (PzIV & StuG) protect her little sister (in Japan, what are they called for little sister?).

    http://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2039.jpg

    It is just me or this Tiger tank just terminated all Italian Medium Tank M15/42 tank? Here the link of that tank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M15/42_tank

    • November 20, 2012 at 11:35 amErochichi

      Tanks Tigers just have destroyed look like they have Japanese camouflage. The tank farthest away looks like a Renault FT 17, which Japan`s Army had in 1920`s, but one left of it is probably a Chi-Ha. I did wrote earlier that Tiger had annihilated old French tanks, but now i believe they were IJA tanks. Whatever, no match for Tiger.

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:57 amSgtKurtz

        Late War Tank WW1 and Light Tank WW2 are no match to Tiger…even combine force won’t bulge the Tiger…..is a sorry sight to see.

    • November 20, 2012 at 12:01 pmArashi Yamato

      Imouto :3

  • November 20, 2012 at 10:44 amJulio

    I wonder if we’ll see Maho against the Russian team or against the British team?

    • November 21, 2012 at 11:18 pmnull

      If we can make assumptions from the tournament chart…Maho will probably go against and defeat the British while Oarai will take on Russia.

  • November 20, 2012 at 10:51 amArashi Yamato

    Got bored, so i rewatched episode 2 and found the kanji designations of the current tanks. (The kanji on the Type 89 was the most annoying to find)

    List of current Oorai Tanks with number designation before re-paint and team reassignment
    -Type 89 = 壱 (1, utilizes a special kanji called daiji (大字) for financial purposes)
    -38(t) = 八 (8)
    -M3 Lee = 四 (4)
    -StuG = 七 (7)
    -Pz. IV = 六 (6)

    So like I previously said, with this we can expect Oorai to be reinforced with 3-4 tanks (5 if they had a full set of 10) in the near future episodes.

    • November 20, 2012 at 10:55 amArashi Yamato

      Oh. And intro has the biggest foreshadowing of future team names. (I’ll just leave it at that).

  • November 20, 2012 at 11:55 amRoguespirit

    Glad to finally have episode six watched after an extra week’s wait. I don’t think there’s much I can say about this weeks episode that everyone else hasn’t already except for a few things.

    First I loled hard at Miho’s reaction when Kei hugged her.Link She’s so spontaneous it’s hilarious. Always good to have Darjeelings input, even if her metaphors han be a bit abstract.

    Also throughout the battle while Erika kept shooting her chops and commenting on everything Maho remained silent and only spoke when she decided to help. I’m glad I reserved judgement on her character. She seemed more interested during the match to see what her sister would do rather than the actual outcome. After the match ended and Kei explained her desire to play fair the shot cut to Maho and Erika. Ignoring Erika’s(I’m calling her “Chiwawa”, you know, small dog, barks a lot) comment I couldn’t help but sense a feeling of pride(in Miho) coming from Maho. Her helping out Mako shows she isn’t the “Iron heart” most characters of her type and role tend to be.

    As for the “forced drama” I didn’t find it all that forced, unexpected certainly but that’s how life is. I suppose what happens next episode will determine wheter or not it is. I’m a bit biased towards that though since that’s exactly how my Grandmere died. As previously mentioned it also let us see more of Maho’s character and also highlighted briefly the bond between Mako and Saori.

    Onto the music, that song playing during the chase scene put a grin on my face. It reminded me of an american car chase scene, like something from Blues Brothers. Also that sad somber music playing as the chopper flew away filled me with dread. Unusually dramatic except maybe for some foreshadowing.

    That first shot from the Firefly really set itself apart. That much deeper and louder boom showed just how much more powerful the Firefly is compared to the rest. Also Yukari(Guderian) is a good judge of distance and knew just from the sound. It seems like every episode she shows herself to be more and more of an asset. She’ll make a great tank commander someday.

    Also there’s something I missed the firest time but must commend the animators for was a shot during the chase scene. A shot lands near the flag sherman and throws dirt up into the air, and then the tank actually gets dirty as a result. That’s excellent standards for detail. I’ve seen very few anime that go to such lengths to actullay show it in real time.
    It’s just after This But before This I think that deserves a round of applause.

    • November 20, 2012 at 12:00 pmSgtKurtz

      prefer KV series of firing. Very promising. Hearing that sound of firing in WoT really pissed me off.

    • November 20, 2012 at 12:46 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

      Rogue:

      http://rightwingotaku.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/shot80e6.jpg

      I took the time to frame-by-frame the Panzer IV being hit just to show the level of detail that went into the Panzer IV. You can see the tracks nearly slipping off the road wheels.

      In this screenshot, you can actually see that the animators took in the time to show the air being disturbed at the muzzlebreak of the Ordinance QF 17pdr.

      http://rightwingotaku.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/shot75e6.jpg?w=1400&h=

      Sorry to put non-RC screenshots into your post Moomba, but there’s a reason why my screenshot count is at 108 ^^;;

      • November 20, 2012 at 12:51 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        And to further point out, the distinctive round fume extractor and all the nifty little details are there. It’s like the animators took some time to have a field trip to Bovington Tank Museum/The Tank Museum to draw them.

        An aside, a reason why a lot of the tanks in World of Tanks are accurate is because they have people like The_Chieftain and Challenger running around doing research.

      • November 20, 2012 at 3:56 pmc2710

        Orz… TOTALLY DIDN’t notice those… Esp the difference in the firing sountd of the 17 lb

        I’d say that the research team truly did a wonderful job and they can work at model companies as well.

    • November 20, 2012 at 1:04 pmdaikama

      Good points about the music and attention to detail. The music so far has been very well chosen. Reminds me of Strike Witches which I thought had a very good music score for almost every type of scene.

      Regarding attention to detail, another to add to the list is that the range finder changes for each tank when we get a “gunners eye” view. I have no idea as to how accurate they are, but given what the show had done so far, I bet they’re spot on.

      • November 20, 2012 at 2:01 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        The_Chieftain had remarked on how accurate the show is in regards to those things. He is basically Wargaming.net’s North American tank expert and has been spotted time to time in the GuP thread in WoT NA Forum.

        So it’s fair to say they got pictures or a real working sight to play around with.

  • November 20, 2012 at 11:57 amsikvod00

    Those shorts, man…

  • November 20, 2012 at 12:58 pmdaikama

    Another good episode and we’re 6/6 (not counting Ep. 5.5). A lot of good comments already (evidently, I watch each episode a few hours after most posters). Some general comments/thoughts:

    - I should be used to it by now, but I’m still surprised at how well this show blends action with comedy. Furthermore, unlike many shows, the source isn’t always the same. While Mako gives us another subtle, yet funny moment (swimming LOL), this time most of the comedy is provided by Arisa’s hilarious ranting throughout the entire chase scene. LOL as she went through various stages of emotion only to finally break down and lament Takashi’s ignorance of her love. GREAT script writing.

    - The staring contest was a couple of seconds too long IMO, but funny nonetheless. Still, was I the only wanting to yell at the volleyball team to FIRE!? GAH, point blank shot at the side of the flag tank (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3f1399221493771). Only Momo could miss from there! Fire a shot, THEN run. Only reason I can think of for not doing so is that the Type 89 might not have been able to depress the cannon low enough to get off an effective shot… or that they didn’t have a round in the chamber (see below).

    - Agree 100% with SgtKurtz that Hana deserves a “sharpshooter” for making an almost impossible shot. A perfectly placed deflection shot at fairly long range with a low velocity canon while at any moment about to be pulverized by the Firefly is one for the record book.

    - I normally agree with SgtKurtz, but regarding Momo’s shooting, I’m not sure that any amount of practice could make her a top notch shot. Missing at point blank (St. Gloriana fight) is a “skill” only few have. Frankly, other than Hana’s one great shot, Oarai’s shooting was pretty poor this battle. Missing during the chase is understandable, but they should have taken out the Sanders flag tank when they converged on it (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b4d6a4221487112).

    - I guess I’m in the minority, but I LIKE the volleyball team leader’s use of volleyball terminology during battle. Sure it’s not ideal, but IMO the volleyball team’s stereotypical personality quirks along with the history teams and other characters’ (Momo, Anzu, etc.) add an extra element that makes the show much more interesting and fun. “Normal” teams like the freshman team seem kind of boring to me in comparison.

    - Does anyone else wonder why the loaders are not making sure there’s ALWAYS a round in the chamber during battle. Overall rate of fire seems kind of low not to mention more than a couple of opportunities missed due to loading.

    - Count me in with Moomba regarding the added drama. It’s not horrible or even unrealistic. It just seemed to take away some of the raw momentum built up by the conclusion of the first tournament battle. I’m sure the reason is that it gives the show an opportunity to provide some background on Mako. Nice of Maho to lend the use of Black Forest’s helicopter, but is that thing really safe? Swimming might have been the better option :P.

    - Got to give credit to Saunders Captain Kai for being a class act after losing the battle. Hana’s reaction to the hug was kind of interesting along with Yukari’s jealousy.

    - Finally, with Panthers, Tigers and T-34′s on the horizon, the much discussed tank upgrades better happen soon. Maybe, Miho’s new friend Kai can work a Lend Lease deal for a couple of 76mm or Firefly M4s. It’s not like Saunders doesn’t have a few extra. More realistically, I expect the Panther IV to get a canon upgrade, possibly another Oarai (where would they get the tank?), and though highly unlikely, maybe even replacing the Type 89 or M3 Lee.

    • November 20, 2012 at 1:12 pmGermanguy

      - I should be used to it by now, but I’m still surprised at how well this show blends action with comedy.

      Yes, your right. it is the “balance” that make this here “heartily viewable” for me. Not to much (Sorry!) “tank” geeks stuff. Bonds displaying, and other Backgrounds.. Thats a good mix for me

      • November 20, 2012 at 1:15 pmGermanguy

        The staring contest was a couple of seconds too long IMO, but funny nonetheless. Still, was I the only wanting to yell at the volleyball team to FIRE!? GAH, point blank shot at the side of the flag tank (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3f1399221493771)

        Well, their Gun is to “light”, to penetrate the Armor of the “Flag Tank”. You must know, original this Tank is a Infantry Support Tank, and the Sherman is a lot thought

      • November 20, 2012 at 1:21 pmGermanguy

        Oarai must now sting like “Mosquito’s” to have a change against “heavier” tanks. Because with their Firepower, they cant Penetrate them. Or they get a “Critical Hit/Lucky Hit” in the Engines or the weaker Parts

    • November 20, 2012 at 1:24 pmKit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat

      Maybe the Volleyball team realized their pathetic excuse of a gun had about as much armor-piercing power as a housefly, and rightly decided to save ammo (and the club budget) :) Their only realistic hope would be hitting the track, but at so close a range it wasn’t going to happen.

      As to their failure at killing the Saunders flag tank when it drove right in their ambush, for once I think Miho could have played that one better. Surrounded on 3 sides from medium range, odds were high the Sherman would stop and try to retreat quickly. Waiting for that moment to shoot would have nearly guaranteed a kill (granted a ballsy Sherman commander may have turned left instead to try and break past the PzIV, keeping the harmless Type 89 on its rear and hoping the StuG, M3 and 38(t) wouldn’t get in a clean hit on its flank).

      • November 20, 2012 at 2:06 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        I’m chalking that up to the fact it’s hindsight. Hana was leading the tank appropriately if you didn’t notice her round passing awfully close to the front of the hull, and only the sudden stop and reverse threw off her aim. The StuG III, nor any tank of the time besides the Shermans iirc, had any form of gun stabilization so whilst on the move, it’s aim is off.

      • November 20, 2012 at 2:38 pmdaikama

        I agree 100% that the Type 89 is one of the worst tanks for AT warfare with it’s short barreled 57mm infantry canon. However, at that distance with an AT round, if they couldn’t get off a track shot, penetrating the M4′s 50mm side turret armor, or better yet, 38–45 mm side armor could be possible IMO.

        The best comparison I could find is the QF 6 pounder/M1 57MM AT gun. It could penetrate at least 80mm of armor at 100m. So if the same caliber M1 can penetrate 80-90mm of armor at 100m, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume a well placed shot from the Type 89 (even with it’s ridiculously short barrel) could penetrate roughly half that much armor from 10m or so. Even if they don’t get a “kill”, it might give the Duck Team a few more seconds to escape. JMO, but I can’t see a downside to taking a quick shot in that instance.

      • November 21, 2012 at 2:16 amKit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat

        It’s not just hindsight. Miho set up a textbook ambush trap with flair (counter-intelligence for the win), and with vastly better numbers to boot (even if it less a factor due to the inherent material superiority of her opponent to what she has to work with). In a case where the enemy is literally walking deeper in your arms with each second, you are in no hurry to take the shoot. This is accentuated in the case of tank warfare, where reloading is not a negligible factor.

        History is replete with well-planned trap that got sprung too early and let the enemy get out (at least partially). Proper execution is somewhat akin to Judo throws: the enemy comes at you, you let him come in your waiting arms, and there will inevitably come a time where he is losing his balance (physically and/or mentally). Striking at that precise time is when you reap the best results. Of course, actually pulling it off is never as easy as it sounds.

        Now don’t get me wrong, I tremendously enjoy this show, and I don’t regret for a second that the ambush failed. Had it succeeded, we would have been deprived of that hilarious chase scene as well as that Firefly action on “The Army Goes Rolling Along”.

    • November 20, 2012 at 2:03 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

      To be fair? The 76mm shell is heavy. You’re asking a high school girl to load it as quickly as in a game. Tough luck. Have you tried to do anything while on the back of a moving pickup? XD

      • November 20, 2012 at 3:30 pmdaikama

        I wasn’t clear – my mistake. I was thinking about Oarai’s reloading time not Saunders 76mm M4. Yeah, I’m cognizant of the fact that 76mm rounds (though in Oarai’s case it would be 75mm, 57mm, and 37mm) are heavy. I also realize these are high school girls, not 200lb veterans. Still, Yukari doesn’t seem to struggle too much while holding the Panzer IVs ammunition (http://www.imagebam.com/image/4984f6221511501). LOL, no I haven’t tried to do “anything” in the back of a moving pickup (never considered it a good idea), but I HAVE moved items of various weight (some “heavy”) while on a moving boat during choppy seas.

        You’re wrong to think I’m envisioning Vulcan canon/video game rate of fire. Theoretical rate of fire, for any gun/canon/howitzer, is never matched in actual combat for a variety of reasons. However, I would hope that during combat, a loader would do everything possible keep a round in the chamber at all times – that’s his/her sole responsibility. That way the gunner is able to immediately fire when presented with an unexpected opportunity, or maintain a sufficient rate of return fire during heated exchanges. I never suggested it was “easy”, but veteran tank loaders have had to deal with similar and much worse conditions as a matter of course.

        Keeping a round chambered at all times (i.e. not sustained rate of fire) during combat is my primary complaint. The image is a perfect example. Put the round in the chamber, THEN join the conversation.

    • November 20, 2012 at 11:34 pmSgtKurtz

      Does anyone else wonder why the loaders are not making sure there’s ALWAYS a round in the chamber during battle. Overall rate of fire seems kind of low not to mention more than a couple of opportunities missed due to loading.

      after watching many episode, you do have a point there-Daikama. In term of balance and proper loading shell and emplacement, rate German the best one. Sherman does the best tank but due to crappy and limited space, finding a shell in crappy space can create stress and panic. http://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2006.jpg

      regardless in this panic situation, its’ hard to decide to choose the right shell. Although StuG also crappy space but well balance and proper positions of shell, seems no problems in hasten the loading even in crucial situation.

      I’m vote for Team Duck and Rabbit get any better tank than previous one. Maybe British tank or Russian tank.

    • January 27, 2013 at 9:04 amyuhsaku

      I’m just curious who is the girl that Takashi is in love with? There’s a brief focus on Hana before Alisa blurts out “Why does Takashi love that girl?” Nah, I’m just thinking too much. :-)

  • November 20, 2012 at 5:55 pmZhinvu

    http://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2002.jpg
    - For some reason, I can’t get enough of Kei’s surprised reaction here. She just looks so darn cute.

    http://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2007.jpg
    - Even Sasaki thinks their commander isn’t making sense with the volleyball terms.

    - I’m with you Moomba on those girls in the opening video. Really wondering when they’re gonna show up. The Leiji Matsumoto looking one caught my attention the most, second would be the maintenance crew and those three with the armbands.
    - It’s wishful thinking but this series just can’t stop at 12 episodes when it did many things right like the music and characters.
    - It’s a little OT but has anyone found a translation of the second song from the Enter Enter Mission single? I love it just as much as the ending theme.
    - Another OT but it’s also nice how the real life Oarai is getting a boost in tourism thanks to the anime.

    • November 20, 2012 at 11:48 pmSgtKurtz

      -agree 100% the Saunders Captain Kei is definitely cute and well bodied…lolz

    • November 21, 2012 at 10:33 amdaikama

      “http://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2002.jpg
      - For some reason, I can’t get enough of Kei’s surprised reaction here. She just looks so darn cute.”

      I thought exactly the same thing. Kei scored a lot of points with me this episode in terms of personality and appearance.

      I also wish the show was 24 episodes, but there’s always hope for Season 2 :D. Interesting to learn that show has had a positive effect on Oarai. I never considered that.

    • November 21, 2012 at 7:40 pmZhinvu

      @daikama and @SgtKurtz – Couldn’t agree more with both of you. Kei rocks.

      Here’s further stuff on how much Girls Und Panzer impacted Oarai.

      Quoted from TV Trope’s Trivia section on Girls Und Panzer:
      The show put the real Japanese town of Oarai in Ibaraki prefecture on the anime map, seeing an increase in tourism especially after episode 4, which featured the town. For a more specific example, the hotel/restaurant that was shown wrecked by a drifting Matilda got a spike in reservations following the episode.

      http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2012/11/19-1/video-oarai-high-school-marching-band-performs-girls-und-panzer-tribute
      - The band performing the main theme was a delight to the ears and the festival really looked like so much fun.

      • November 22, 2012 at 4:27 amKit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat

        That might become an awesome exemple of reality catching up to fiction, if that place get enough additional business to actually renovate or relocate :)

  • November 20, 2012 at 6:47 pmWanderer

    It’s pretty cool to see just how strong Miho can be as a commander. Of all the girls from Oarai, she has the biggest reason to be affected by the situation they got themselves into – she should be the most severely affected by it given her past experiences. Yet she’s able to overcome it in order to lead them to an eventual victory with a rather risky gambit. That’s some pretty strong willpower right there.

    To be honest, it looked like the pressure was getting to her there for a bit before Yukari and Hana took her hands and reassured her. She hasn’t broken yet, and I don’t think she was quite on the edge of breaking just then, but she was feeling the strain.

    She worries me. There are elements to her behavior that suggest to me much deeper psychological scars than just whatever trauma that led her to leave her sister’s team. Elements that I’m not sure they’ll be able to cover in a mere twelve episodes. Her reactions to affection and praise (generally shock that anyone is saying anything good about her) speak to me of issues with her sense of self-worth that run deeper than a single trauma-point could explain. I don’t know if they’ll do anything with any of that, but I haven’t been able to ignore the signs.

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:09 pmbear

      I was struck by how her hand was shaking on her knee (she had to use her other hand to stop it) .

    • November 21, 2012 at 4:22 amMoomba

      But that’s one of the things I consider to make her strong – she obviously was edging towards breaking under the pressure like several of the others but she managed to suppress it, even if the assistance of her friends was a part of that. To me, being able to overcome it like that speaks of strong willpower. As they say, being brave isn’t about being fearless, but about facing fears and overcoming them.

      I am still worried about them though – if the prequel manga runs within the same canon as the anime then there’s probably a pretty high chance of some nasty trauma resurfacing. Even if it’s not, I’m still expecting it to come up at some point. But for now, it looks like she can still push it aside.

      • November 21, 2012 at 10:10 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        Also, I’m dropping these nuggets of observation over from World of Tanks.

        From user ScrewySqrl (emphasis mine):

        Went back and watched Episode 1 again. Miho states “I was always called unreliable at my last school” — I think there was a rather serious case of constant harrassment and bullying by Erica and others back at Black Forest Peak, possibly because a mere freshman was being made vice-commander. Maho was possibly involved (possibly misinterpreting it as good natured teasing?), but I think she was actually unaware. Miho’s lack of self confidence and clumsiness shown in the first episode have to be from a long campaign of wearing her self confidence down. The harrassment and bullying brought about the incident where Miho’s tank fell in the ocean and she nearly drowned. Possibly other crewmates were not so lucky as Miho. Maho’s cold shoulder is because she blames herself for what happened. She still cares, but doesn’t know how to show it. (the helicopter offer is proof)

        Miho shows all kinds of signs of PTSD that are constantly almost bubbling to the surface. From her initial shock at ‘you must sign up for sensha-do’, to all her ‘injured’ teaddy bears, to the way she seems to lock up every time one of her team’s tanks goes down — she seems to be helped by the cries of confidence from her crew in breaking out of those lockups. In episode 6 there was a tremor in her left hand — which if you may recall, she had trouble just moving a magazine with that same hand in Episode 2. Every time she’s reminded of her responsibilities, she gets a deer-in-headlights look. Her friends are all that seem to keep her going sometime.

        Given what happened to the type 89 (half the turret was missing and there was a fire on board! So much for ‘carbon coatings’), and the brutal defeat of the Polish and Japanese schools by Pravda and Black Forest, this show could take a dark(ish) turn pretty easily. And I suspect that PTSD is going to cause a major plot point in the remaining episodes, probly coming to a peak in the transition between Episode 11 and 12.

        ————

        When ScrewySqrl said that, I am reminded of Tom Hank’s character in Saving Private Ryan having the similar tremor in his hands. And nepotism within a school (older/upperclassman sister doting and showering stuff onto a younger sibling) is cause for alarm in established social circles, at least if I read high schoolers like that (I was a bit of a social outcast and had an outsider’s perspective sometimes) so a best friend being passed up for something she deserved for her friend’s younger sister would be a cause for abuse.

      • November 21, 2012 at 1:28 pmMoomba

        I actually tracked down that post and read it after you mentioned it in a tweet. I figure I might as well keep my thoughts here. To be honest, I think there’s a fair bit of stretching going on – there isn’t really any solid evidence that Miho was bullied, it could well be that she was considered ‘unreliable’ because she dropped the way of the tank despite her supposed aptitude for it.

        While I do think she has PTSD and suspect that it will resurface and play a role in the story, I think there might be some cases of looking too deeply into things. For one, there are a few adverts throughout the anime so far for those ‘injured bears’ so unless it’s being used symbolically, it’s probably safe to assume that they’re actually a popular product of some kind which wouldn’t make it too odd that she owns them. Secondly, I remember actually talking about the magazine drop in episode two with someone and as it happens, the studio spoke about it a while ago too. They could be lying in order to mislead us (this seems slightly unlikely), but they claimed that it was nerves at having people visit her room for the first time when she hadn’t had a chance to do any cleaning.

        As to the brutality from the Russians and Germans, that has generally come across to me as showing how ruthless they are in their attacks rather than how the series might be planning to take a turn for the grimdark. While some of the themes are there, I still think it’s too early to leap to conclusions about where it’s intending to go. I especially think those who are calling it the ‘next Madoka‘ are going waaaaay too far. Many other lighthearted series in the past have contained darker themes hidden under the lighthearted veil, but this doesn’t necessarily mean they turn out in that manner.

        I do admit that I have some concerns that it might decide to take a darker route, but this is mostly based on some of the things I’ve read in the prequel manga – things that may not even share the same canon in the long run. Only time will actually tell where it does go, but this is how I see it at this point in time.

      • November 21, 2012 at 3:35 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        Yeah the thread goes up and down with each episode. I do think there is gonna be grimdark enroute, but not in the massive scale people there are thinking.

        I do agree with the brutality. Not in the grimdark someone gonna be in the hospital way, but this is merely stemming from the fact, Russian and German tank tactics emphasized blitzkreig and got it both down to perfection. Ooarai will have to really plan on how to take out a T-34 or a Tiger, especially against fully experienced crews.

        As for bullying, yeah, it can be that, it maybe isn’t. But I do think yeah, the Nishizumi name is a big thing so her dropping the sport that made the name so well renowned is maybe a reason for it.

  • November 20, 2012 at 7:20 pmblack

    One thing would like to point out for the duck team
    “why don’t they shot enemy’s flag tank and choose to escape instead”
    may be they had bad experienced during fight with English team?
    coz they can’t finish job last time, so they afraid will be same mistake this time

    • November 20, 2012 at 7:52 pmKevin Yamagata

      They would if they could.

    • November 20, 2012 at 11:46 pmSgtKurtz

      Just remember that Type 89 tank for 57mm infranty support role can’t hit a shit. Even when firing, it will bounce back. I still remember when Saunder captain Kei (episode 5) mentions this to Team Rabbit when the M3 firing back ” You can’t hit for a shit “, which it true. The same thing can be employ to 38(t) and Type 89.

      Regardless the situation were, its’ better to back off while still can. Although lack firepower, still the speed and mobility is the greatest asset for Type 89. That’s why in WW2 campaign in many Asia nation, Imperial Army easily out whimp any well place position of British defender.

      • November 21, 2012 at 7:16 amWanderer

        Although lack firepower, still the speed and mobility is the greatest asset for Type 89.

        Actually, no. The Type 89 is slower than any other tank fielded in this episode. Its top speed is 26 kph, aka 16 mph. The pursuing Sherman could pull 48 kph, aka 30 mph.

        There is a reason why commenters are so down on the Type 89: there is literally no good side to it. I could (almost) accept the weak gun and pathetic armor if it was at least fast, but it’s not. Compared to everything else on the field, it’s a snail. AND it can’t damage any targets it hits, AND it can’t absorb any damage it takes. It is an anti-infantry tank… and infantry could probably outrun it, and for that matter destroy it, assuming they’re carrying anything better than small-arms.

  • November 20, 2012 at 7:21 pmSgt. Shultz

    What I don’t get is how the flag sherman couldn’t loose the Oarai panzers chasing it but the pursuing shermans were able to catch up. Of course the whole issue of speed has really been ignored since the Oarai tanks all have different top speeds and wouldn’t have been able to stay grouped like that.

    • November 20, 2012 at 11:50 pmSgtKurtz

      We already mentioned about that and please re-read the previous posting. Just a reminder.

  • November 20, 2012 at 8:04 pmVaans

    I’ll leave this here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9keZaaAGBsE

    HAHAHAHA!

    • November 20, 2012 at 8:38 pmc2710

      The heck was that?

      GuP is certainly WoT the anime

      • November 20, 2012 at 11:51 pmSgtKurtz

        …………….

        the heck?

      • November 21, 2012 at 10:55 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        Damn right. Also why I call Girls und Panzer as Moe’ of Tanks.

  • November 20, 2012 at 8:15 pmIncognito

    Finally, the wait is over–and worth it.

    Arisa: “Where’s Ooarai’s tanks?”

    *Duck Team’s Type-89 crashes through a straw/bamboo fence*

    Me: “CREEEEEEEED!!!! XD

    And seeing the Sherman Firefly (my favorite Allied tank in Company of Heroes after the Pershing) in all its glory… Hell yes. I’m pretty sure Naomi qualifies as a cold sniper (despite not being an actual sniper with a rifle) since the Sherman Firefly was designed to knock out enemy armor at long range and she doesn’t have much expressions. However, props to Hana for making that nice final shot.

    As for yuri pairings: Give me Darjeeling x Kei/Kay any day. Just like Cecilia x Charlotte (Infinite Stratos) from last year.

  • November 20, 2012 at 9:39 pmWhatsht

    The short conversations between the history team was hilarious.

  • November 20, 2012 at 10:02 pmwinters

    I don’t know how I decided I wasn’t going to watch this when it first came out but due to this picture
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/sleepingwolf/2012/Commie-Girls-und-Panzer—01-242F0520mkv_snapshot_0215_20121010_113645.jpg

    I have started watching this and have no regrets. Makes me want to play some more WoT.

    • November 21, 2012 at 2:36 pmdaikama

      LMAO! Thanks for the link.

  • November 21, 2012 at 12:11 amKasrkin519

    never in all my life thought i’d find myself watching an anime with high school girls and singing along

    then it’s hi hi hey! the army’s on its way! count off the cadence loud and strong! (2-3-4!)”

  • November 21, 2012 at 2:01 amewok40k

    I want that meowing ringtone!
    Other than that, Tigers of Schwarzwald and T-34s of Pravda made short work of their enemies (apparently using VERY light tanks including 2-tureted HMG armed Vickers E).
    My bets for some quality semifinals – around ep8-9?
    St.Gloriana – Schwarzwald
    Ooarai – Pravda
    with final match pitting 2 sisters aginst each other…

  • November 21, 2012 at 4:03 amc2710

    Oh one more thing… Michel Whitman???

    http://randomc.net/image/Girls%20und%20Panzer/Girls%20und%20Panzer%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2039.jpg

    Now I very much want to see Barkmann’s Corner when Black Forest Peak fight gets televised and tv debut of Panther

    • November 21, 2012 at 4:12 amKevin Yamagata

      Just realized one defeated tank on the left is turned over. And they said Panzerfahren is safe…

      • November 21, 2012 at 8:02 amWanderer

        Completely safe. Anyone getting killed disqualifies you, so clearly, despit the evidence, Maho didn’t kill anyone.

  • November 21, 2012 at 7:34 amWanderer

    Still waiting on a Yakety Sax version of the chase scene. If someone finds one or makes one, toss a message up here, would you? :D

    • November 21, 2012 at 11:26 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

      I was at my overnight job and this is kinda shitty.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ewp__Nebdc&hd=1

      • November 21, 2012 at 12:44 pmWanderer

        I was thinking of the earlier chase against the single Sherman, but whichever. There’s no rush, also. I was posting more as a reminder than as a “hey, where is it already?” Take your time.

      • November 21, 2012 at 3:22 pmJusuchin (Military Otaku)

        I’ll see what I can do. I also got suggestions for the Yakkity Chase video from earlier episodes on what I can include into a montage.

  • November 21, 2012 at 8:43 amGermanguy

    Guys, some “offside” note. We are about to “outcomment” SAO :)

    • November 21, 2012 at 8:51 amc2710

      So be it….

    • November 21, 2012 at 9:09 amewok40k

      Dont bring a sword to a tank fight!

    • November 21, 2012 at 9:12 am†Croos†

      it still doesn’t beat views though.

    • November 21, 2012 at 10:07 amKit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat

      Hard to imagine the SOA comments going on about the precise formula of the Damascus Steel used for a particular sword, or what craftsman from the twelfth century made that specific handle, or if a shortsword would beat a long halberd in open rolling fields broken by low hedgerows at dusk (just to be clear, I have absolutely no idea what SOA is actually about, I just assume there are swords in it…).

  • November 21, 2012 at 9:07 amewok40k

    shameless self-ad:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UarjYkTSWPo&feature=plcp
    AMV done myself!

  • November 22, 2012 at 6:39 amjohn

    I wonder if any other modern MBTs (Abrams, Leopard 2s, PT-91s) will make an appearance. Slightly OT, in Upotte Nano Ch17, apparently tanks too can morph into girls! It even has a Type-10 girl!

    • November 22, 2012 at 8:16 amJusuchin (Military Otaku)

      The instructor commands the Type 10 MBT, Japan’s newest tank, so I’m sure Saunders has the Abrams for it’s university/adult level Panzerfahren teams, Leopard 2A5/6/late-model Leopard 2s for Black Forest Peak, Challenger 2 for St. Gloriana, etc.

      • November 23, 2012 at 10:04 amSayuriUliana

        The instructor Chouno Ami isn’t a Senshado practitioner though, she’s a JGSDF tanker as shown by her rank. The rules also stipulate that only tanks from before August 15, 1945 are to be used in Senshado.

  • November 22, 2012 at 7:00 amTheMoondoggie

    Cheaters never prosper. And a shining example can bee seen this episode, LOL. I didn’t imagine that the one with radio intercept was actually the flag unit. Exceptional sniping on both parties too.

  • January 18, 2013 at 4:13 amShaun

    I came by here just to say this.

    ” Neither the M18 nor the M36 Jackson’s 90mm gun could penetrate the front armor of the Tigers despite the manufacturers claims.”

    That’s complete bunk. Especially on the 90mm M3′s part.

    At the battle of Elsdorf, a T26E3 engaged a Tiger from nearly 1,000 yards, firing (Then widely available) T30E16 HVAP. The shot penetrated thru the Tiger’s gun mantlet, the most thickly-armored point on the entire vehicle..The same Pershing killed 2 Panzer IVs in the following moments.

    The 90mm M3 was massive overmatch for the Tiger’s armor scheme. Especially with T30E16 HVAP, where you were looking at a penetration stat of nearly 250mm RHA@1,000 yards, according to R.P. Hunnicutt.

    The Tiger II was the only German vehicle fielded that a T26E3 couldn’t penetrate frontally with the basic ammunition, and with HVAP, it likely could have, if the round didn’t shatter.

    • January 21, 2013 at 6:40 pmdaikama

      The 90mm M3 was massive overmatch for the Tiger’s armor scheme. Especially with T30E16 HVAP, where you were looking at a penetration stat of nearly 250mm RHA@1,000 yards, according to R.P. Hunnicutt.

      I agree 100% that the 90mm M3 AT gun firing HVAP rounds could easily penetrate the Tiger I’s 100mm (120mm turret) front armor at 1000+ meters (given his other comments, I’m sure “bear”, who you quoted, would as well). However, I think 250mm of penetration at 1000m is an unrealistic. This site, citing Hunnicutt as it’s source, has 199mm of penetration at 914m. Another site, using different sources, lists 90mm M3 HVAP armor penetration as 195mm-200mm at 1000m. Thus, I think 200mm, not 250mm, is a fair and accurate number for 90mm M3 HVAP armor penetration at 1000m – obviously more than enough for the Tiger I.

      The Tiger II was the only German vehicle fielded that a T26E3 couldn’t penetrate frontally with the basic ammunition, and with HVAP, it likely could have, if the round didn’t shatter.

      Actually, both the Ferdinand/Elefant and Jadgtiger had more armor than a Tiger II. (200/250mm of front armor respectively vs. 150mm for the Tiger II). HVAP rounds or not, the 90mm M3 could not penetrate a Jadgtiger from the front. HVAP rounds might just be able to penetrate Ferdinand/Elefant from the front from less than 1000m. I think it’s worth noting that the 90mm M3 even had difficulty penetrating the Panther’s well designed 80mm front glacis armor with NON-HVAP rounds. (Zaloga, Armored Thunderbolt).

      At the battle of Elsdorf, a T26E3 engaged a Tiger from nearly 1,000 yards, firing (Then widely available) T30E16 HVAP.

      HVAP availability is a critical issue here, arguably, the critical issue. There was a HUGE difference in performance between HVAP and APC/APCBC AT rounds. Using numbers from the above cited sources, 90mm M3 armor penetration at 1000m drops roughly forty to forty-five percent for non-HVAP rounds (i.e. from 200mm to 110mm-120mm)! Barely enough to do the job when taking on a Tiger head on, and by no means a “massive overmatch” IMO.

      I’m curious to know your source for stating HVAP rounds were “widely available.” Everything I’ve read (incl. “The Tank Killers” by Yeilde, and sources quoting Steven Zaloga’s books), uniformly state that HVAP rounds were anything but “widely available” throughout the duration of WWII. While TDs did have priority distribution for HVAP rounds, they still didn’t have nearly enough to use exclusively in every AT operation. APC & APCBC rounds were still the “standard” US AT rounds throughout the war, and much more common than HVAP rounds AFAIK.

      As for the M18 Hellcat’s 76mm M1A2 AT gun, it’s certainly not “complete bunk”. As shown here and here, HVAP rounds were absolutely necessity for any frontal attack against a Tiger (or Panther) by an M18. With availability limited (as previously discussed), that’s not a minor issue. Regardless of ammunition, given the differences in armor, a frontal assault by an M18 on a Tiger was almost suicidal anyway and religiously avoided by Hellcat crews. The large majority of M18 Hellcat Tiger and Panther kills were side/rear shots for a very good reason.

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