There’s no denying that Madara’s as overpowered as they come in the Naruto universe (right up there with Naruto himself), but while it’s easy to jest about how he’s dropping massive meteors on the Earth with Chibaku Tensei, I don’t particularly mind because the story’s been building up to this big revelation for some time now. This is unquestionably one of the most earth-shattering moments of the entire series, as it establishes the missing link between the Sharingan and the Rinnegan. i.e. The latter is a direct derivative of the former and not simply a unique doujutsu possessed by Rikudou Sennin.
Speculation from chapter 510:
At this point, it’s hard to say if transplanting a Sharingan into a Senju descendant along with some DNA manipulation is enough for it to evolve into a Rinnegan, but that’s definitely one possibility on how Madara “gave” Nagato his eyes.
(Reminder: Nagato’s a descendant of the Uzumaki clan.)
I threw out the idea a while back about how the Rinnegan could possibly be an evolved form of the Sharingan if it’s crossed with Senju DNA — back when “Tobi” said he gave Nagato his Rinnegan — and it’s really starting to look like that’s the case. There’s precedence for it as well, given that the Uchihas supposedly inherited Rikudou Sennin’s eyes and the Senjus his strength, so the secret that Kabuto’s been alluding to could very well be the mixing of the two bloodlines to recreate the ultimate ninja. It would be similar to Underworld’s take on vampires and werewolves, which also had the two races engaged in a war against one another for as long as everyone could remember.
Assuming that’s the case, I’m left wondering if there’s a catch to it. For all we know, it could’ve been perceived as taboo to mix the bloodlines (again like Underworld), so this may have even been the root cause of their fight for control over both clans. The biggest question lies with Madara himself, who mentioned here that he only awakened his Rinnegan shortly before he died. Part of me gets the feeling that the awakening may have been what killed him — going back to the idea why it’s taboo — and that he was banking on Nagato to develop his own Rinnegan from “Tobi” (whom I’m still learning towards is Izuna) to later revive him using Rinne Tensei — the deus ex machina-like technique that Nagato used to revive Kakashi and all of Konoha’s other victims. This would explain Madara’s surprise last chapter that he was revived with Edo Tensei instead of Rinne Tensei — something that was incorrectly translated in the scanlation that 99% of English readers probably rely on (page 2). 「…穢土転生だと…！？ 輪廻転生ではないのか…！？」
At the moment, I really like the proposition that Madara and Izuna may have planned this from the very beginning to usurp power from the Senju, considering the ambitiousness that not only spans multiple generations but also death itself. As a natural counter to that, I can already picture Naruto and Sasuke reuniting the Senju and Uchiha bloodlines in a way that corrects their ancestors’ mistakes. If at some point down the road, hundreds of chapters from now, Sasuke tells Sakura to transplant his eyes into Naruto to awaken the Rinnegan and stop Kabuto/Madara, just remember that you heard it here first. 😛
If I recall correctly, pre-time-skip they stated that the Sharingan originally branched off from the Byakugan.
So how does the Byakugan fit into everything. Or is that just another minor plot-hole we are supposed to forget.
Well, that was a possibility. Kakashi says “they say that the Uchiha’s origins lie with the Hyuga clan.” in chapter 78, pg 13.
At this point, it seems more likely that it’s the other way around.
Kakashi is the same guy that says the Sage of Six paths is a myth, so any history he spits out i wouldn’t consider credible lol
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t it the other way around? I thought the Byakugan was an off-shoot of the Sharingan. That would fit more into the grand scheme of things, but I honestly can’t remember (though I do remember one being said to be a branch of the other).
Anyway, I still am sticking to the Rinnegan being inherited along the Senju bloodline and the Sharingan along the Uchiha. I know that leaves the reason why Madara said he gave Nagato the eyes up in the air, but I still have this feeling that the Rinnegan isn’t evolved from the Sharingan. Still, it certainly makes sense that Tobi is Izuna and probably both him and Madara are descendents of both Uchiha and Senju. We shall see how things unfold.
I also thought the Byakugan was the “ancestor” of the Sharingan and the Rinnegan the origins for both…
Alright, all that we know are that the three eye techniques are related. The Uchiha are descendant from the disciple who inherited eye techniques from the Sage of Six paths, who possessed a Rinnegan.
The history of Ninja eye techniques is rather confusing.
The Uchiha clan could just have lied out their butts.
Yeah, at first they said sharingan branched off from byakugan (during the ninja exams). How the story has been told there can be 2 possibilites: kishimoyo forgot this or maybe he has another twist plot involving the byakugan. Time will tell.
another possibility that the eyes came from ten tails and that the sage gian the rinnegan after becoming a jinchuriki and later gave the “eyes” to his older son and the “body” to his yunger son.
You sure have some imagination there, Divine.
I know for sure Sasuke and Naruto are going to team up, but I highly doubt that he’ll give Naruto the sharingan. I still say he’s going to somehow sacrifice his eyes to give Naruto a chance, there by giving up what he turned into a complete dick to gain, Power.
What makes you think he will change his long standing dick behavior.
It totally seems to me that naruto and him will both die in the end like naruto said several chapters ago. Hes been a dick throughout the entire series (he only became some what relatable part way in). There’s a point when a character becomes nonredemable and is reclassified as a “bad guy” and sasuke has completely crossed that line.
I knew it! I had even contacted some of the scanlators about that and they scoffed at me. I mean, that’s a big difference from a foreshadowing standpoint. Anywho, I love reading your speculations. But you’d tell us if you’re on the inside track with Kishimoto himself, right? >_>
After this chapter, this is the way I see it.
1)the ultimate form of the sharingan is the Rinnegan. It is just an almost impossible level the achieve for uchiha’s.
2)The new form Naruto unlocked is the ultimate form of the body. It is just an almost impossible level to achieve for senju’s.
The reason Nagato became crippled was because he had the ultimate eyes, but not the ultimate body needed to go with them. SO he rapidly degenerated from using its power.
When the too powers combine, that is when you achieve the true power of the Sage.
I liked this chapter because it made this apparent, I hope Kishi doesn’t do something to contradict this. Because this really seems like the logical end everything was leading too.
Also… Tobi was collecting eyes. He is using obitio’s other eye.
Why does everything always go back to Obito? Is it because he’s the only other named Uchiha we know of? They could just as easily bring up new names like they did with Shisui.
As far as I’m concerned, Obito’s dead. He wasn’t even that great of an Uchiha. His purpose in the story was to develop Kakashi’s character and that’s been done already (and done well).
Well, I added the last line as a joke, but for actual reasons.
Kishimoto likes pulling out magic eyes as plot points, Shisui is one example.
Both relate to time space powers.
Tobi backwards is Ibot. That is very similar to obito.
I would be shocked if Tobi is Obito. I don’t know what plot twist the author has in mind though. Though I am wondering if Mandara would have won if he had this power when fighting the first Hokage.
Anyway, back to Tobi, in reality it seems that Tobi is nothing more than a FAILED imitation of Mandara. Mandara can use both the Rinnegan and Sharringan while Tobi’s eyes are…..failed products. On the interesting note,it seems that Mandara said he got this the moment he died. I hope Itachi may develop something.
i’m getting pretty sick of the obito theories too. it doesn’t bring any element to the story… kakashi’s old team is dead and no form of tensei will be bringing them back
now if aizen per-ordained this just to spite me then i will gladly eat a slice of humble pie
Obito isn’t the only other named Uchiha we know of. There’s also Kagami Uchiha who I think could quite possibly be Tobi.
@ Derp You’re wrong though. The reverse of Tobi is not Ibot but Bito. If you reverse Obito you get Tobio/Tobi
It can’t be “the ultimate form of body” because it’s the nine tails power, the only way that could be true is if he could do it if the nine tails was removed from his body, which he can’t
It’s pretty clear the Senju’s gift is the insane amount of Chakra they and their descendants all seem to share. Hence why Naruto even without the Kyubi’s extra power still has immense amounts of Chakra as compared to a normal ninja, almost all named and implied Senju have been Kage Level Ninja and the strongest or nearly strongest of there time which implies large amounts of Chakra. Furthermore the entire Uzumaki Clan an offshoot of the Senju Clan was known for its long life spans. With this in mind, in Hindu mythology the Chakra Gates used and transferred life energy so it doesnt go without saying Charka in Naruto can effectively be counted on as life force or vitality. This hypothesis is further supported by the fact during the Chuunin Exam Arc Sasuke was almost killed by having his Chakra absorbed.
On a side note Nagato was crippled by having his legs destroyed by Hanzo in their huge battle where he first summons the Demon’s Statue. Furthermore he was becoming enfeebled and emaciated due to the overuse of that same technique.
Going by what you said is it not possible for a Senju guy (with the body) took the Uchicha’s power (eyes).
Remember there was a battle between the Senju Hokage and Uchiha? If Senju won and took Uchiha eye. Then he needed to do a test and gave the eye to Nagato. Nagato being a Senju could accelerate the eye to Rinne eye. After Nagato died, Senju took back the eyes.
Thus now being a cross between Senju and Uchiha.
Remember that Uchiha wanted unity through force while Senju wanted unity through peace. Mind controlling everyone using a genjitsu might seem peaceful. Everyone in a (false) dream world.
I strongly feel there is still something important to be said about Obito, Tobi and Itachi. Tobi’s shagingan powers are in my opinion still the biggest hax in the series. What’s the deal with that alternate dimension he takes people to? And the correlation between Kakashi’s left shaginan eye and Tobi’s right sharingan eye are unmistakable. As usual, Itachi knows something everyone else in the series doesn’t.
He’s a runaway Zanpakutou from the Bleach Universe. That’s why he has an inner universe.
actually… you make a good point, I’ve noticed the similarities but never put them together… Kakashi’s Mangenkyo has space/time warp capabilities (he makes a black hole…) and so do Tobi’s… they might possibly be 2 halves of a whole…
I just want to find out who “Tobi” is already…
Good post. I didn’t realize the scanslation left out that foreshadowing.
Rock fall everyone dies
Okay seriously i knew Madara would be a broken char but damn this is too outrageous. Now I beginning to think that Sasuke might get the rinengan too some time in the future. Well so much for the Rinengan only belonging to SoSP
“Sasuke might get the rinengan ”
Its Kishimoto’s plan to get Sasuke and Naruto together to produce Rinnegan babies =)
Foreshadowed all the way at the beginning by Orioke no Jutsu (and hordes of doujin writers).
I’m sure thats been done in fanfiction XD. Stilll would be funny to see kishi add that to his manga just for trollls
“I can already picture Naruto and Sasuke reuniting the Senju and Uchiha bloodlines” – After reading that, I pictured something else.. and it wasn’t very pleasant! #~#
I was picturing something else… but it’s pleasant for “certain” fangirls…
If it helps, you can imagine one (or both :P) of them with Orioke no Jutsu.
lol… yaoi… into yuri… but both are guys in disguise… so what’ll we call it?
@^ Trap yuri?
Divine, simple question: how much are you enjoying Naruto lately? I thoroughly enjoy your posts and theories and what-ifs, mind you; this is purely a question out of random curiosity (see what I did there?).
Personally, I’ve been having a blast reading Naruto these past weeks. I wish other mainstream mangas, namely Bleach, would be as entertaining as Naruto is these days.
As a RC reader, I’ll take the fact that you posting these chapter comments quite early, or the fact that you haven’t simply dropped it, sums up to the “liking it so far”…But sometimes I wish that somewhere between your (really good) theories, or at least from time to time, you’d simply say how much did the kid inside you like the chapter…
I’m definitely enjoying it that’s for sure. It’s actually a lot of fun to blog about too given the big developments as of late. I find that I’m never really short of things to talk about with regards to the story or the characters, so I can’t really be bothered to write “reaction-type” impressions. e.g. “I was surprise when…”, “I didn’t expect that…”, “I found it dumb when…”, etc. which make for a pretty boring post in my opinion. It’s a lot easier to just give you my take on what happened.
I defintely agree that those type of comments can make a boring post.
“I’m definitely enjoying it that’s for sure. It’s actually a lot of fun to blog about too given the big developments as of late. “
That’s really what I was curious about; good to know you’re enjoying it…Thanks for answering Divine!
Im kinda gonna go with naruto getting sasuke’s eyes and him making the rinnegan outta them in order to beat madara/Izuana/tobi.
i love reading this from you divine, this chapter blew my figgin mind im so serious, i mean so he planned with tobi to give nagato the rinnegan, so then it must be as you said and i thght when madara was saying “those were my eyes to begin with” maybe he was being literal and so he used a senju to create the rinnegan with his eyes, intrestin and he was supposed to used rinne tensei to bring back madara who found out the secreat but it killed him. Although the whole thing with nagato dying because of overuse of rinnegan and not the body is a bit wierd, since he was a senju and did inherit the body of rikudo senin.
dang it dude i hope sage mode ties into this somehow and naruto combines sage mode w/t kyubbi mode to activate the rinnegan roflmao
Or perhaps, (I can’t believe that no one has suggested this yet) they could just kill of Kakashi and have Naruto inherit his Mangekyo…a more elegant alternative, due to the fact the power up would be achieved without incapacitating the beloved anti-hero of the series- though probably not as emotionally enthralling as having Sasuke give him his eyes…
wow, that sounds alot better, because I wanted Kakashi to die during the end of pain src but if he’s still alive for this purpose, I’ll take it
naruto and sasuke will do a fusion to get the perfect rinnegan(senju body + uchiha eyes) and kick madara/tobi’s hyperdimensional ass as well as kabuto/orochimaru’s.. (we see a lot of pairings there)
friendship saves the day again, yay!
and the age-long conflict between the uchihas and senju will come to an end.
Oh please, we all know who would be dominate in that fusion… Sasruto.
Thanks for your input Divine, this chapter alone turned all my knowledge about Naruto to mush again. However the chapter confirmed it for me that the Sharingan is going to be the Deus Ex Machina of this series again…
I’m guessing that the masked Madara is actually a clone of the real one, and was on a quest to revive his original body.
how did the first hokage beat mandara?
Then we find out that the demon statue is actually just a susanoo of the sage of six paths. Seeing as how the susanoo of madara seems to be making hand seals as well.
When Tobi was pretending to be Madara he said that he only fought the 1st to get his hands on some of his dna, and thats what he made Zetzu out of. The real Madara knows about Nagato, and Edo Tensai. He must have lived intill the last great ninja war, so then how did he die? Was it a master plan made way back then for him to be brought back, if so then why did he die in the first place? Both Madara and Kabuto both pointed out in this last chapter that kabuto did something to Madara to make him stronger then he was in his prime. So if Madara use the 1st dna on him self to get the Rinnegan then what did Kabuto do?
Could someone answer to this question.
Among the Rinnegan, Sharingan and Byakugan eyes who is the strongest and why is it so?
I would have to say that the rinnegan is the strongest of the three.
With the rinnegan, you have access to all 5 of the elements which you can mix to use practically every elemental technique. And besides the elemental part, there is also the part of the seven paths of the rinnegan and the shared vision when one spreads his rinnegan to six others which are both deadlier than the byakugan and the sharingan.
To know is Madara is die or not please take a look at Naruto chapter 385 page 4 to page 7 again
This isn’t really important but how did he create that massive meteor? It looks like it just suddenly appeared out of nowhere as opposed to slowly attracting rocks from the surroundings.
I suppose it’s possible given the space manipulative abilites of a sharingan.
1.The meteor jutsu may not be Chibaku Tensei, since it was initiated by having Susanoo forming hand seals.
2.The elder son of the sage of the six paths inherited the sage’s eye, and it was shown that its appearance is closer to a Rinnegan rather than the Sharingan. So, the Rinnegan may be the final evolution of the Sharingan itself.
3.Madara may have given his Rinnegan to Nagato, so that Nagato could use it to resurrect him. However, because Nagato implanted the Rinnegan rather than evolving it himself from sharingan all the way up to MS and Rinnegan, he was not able to use any of the MS techniques.
Wow. I feel like the continuity was just destroyed.
Under Madara’s mask is Aizen. Calling it now.
“What a TWIST!!” – M. Knight Shyamalan
This plot twist is killing me! I do not think Naruto and Sasuke will be merging or swapping eyes anytime soon. However, I do believe that they will team up again. The problem I am having is how does the Nine tail, Sasuke, and Naruto fit in all of this?!
Was I the only screaming like a fangirl to all this kickasrsary until the last page where I thought “This isn’t fun anymore (sobbing in my thoughts)”?
I don’t even care about the Rinnegan secrets, just don’t let Sasuke have it! >.<
But Naruto using almighty pull and rasen-shiriken at the same time on Kabuto while pulling out madara's soul and reviving an entire nation of Ninjas would be broken, yes……… but freaking EPIC! And he can clone too? OMG give Naruto Rinnegan!
The revelation that the Rinnegan is an evolution of the Sharingan, in my opinion reinforces the theory that Tobi is actually Obito, not only because the mask he wore previously only had the right eye, which already had the Sharigan.
For those who remember Obito gave his left eye to Kakashi.
If you look at chapter 510, you see Madara had two sharingans, and then gave one up for Izanagi
Not Madara. I should say Tobi…
But in his fight against Konan it is revealed that he had sharingan in both of his eyes, he even sacrificed one of his 2 eyes to use Izanagi to survive 10 minutes of exploding bombs.
Transplants are soo easy…
I hate to double-post but I just remembered. One RC commenter pointed out that Kishimoto said somewhere that Madara would not be the “final boss” of the series. Perhaps this is what he meant? Madara isn’t, but whomever Tobi is, he’s the final boss. Then again, this just may not be the final arc.
Speaking about ‘broken’, Madara is, at best, half as strong as he could have been if half of Mu hadn’t been sealed when he did the summon. So, yeah…
Brooooken!!!! hehehehe, dat shit just sounds funny!
That is a powerful theory, But for me It is hard for me to accept that. I mean Naruto getting the Sharingan. Are you trying to say that Naruto should get a “Crutch” just to be on the same level as all these nut jobs? Naruto worked his butt off to be a great ninja. He didn’t need any stinking Sharingan or Rinnegan. I mean to take a doujutsu is like saying that Ichigo needed the Hogyuku (or whatever) to beat Aizen and that being the winner is having the great big power (The Sharingan or Rinnegan) and that hard work and effort means nothing. I hope I did step out of line with this comment.
And I thought Pain was pretty broken.. lol
so if naruto and hinata have a baby its gonna have the rinnegan
I am so confuse with this chapter, SOMEONE HELP ME!! “>.<"
Not gonna lie, I think this revelation is actually cheapening out both Tobi AND the impact of the Rinnegan concept. Seriously, at least with Nagato we had a unique variation of the SoSP’s Rinnegan through his 6 Paths of Pain, and with Tobi we got a mashup of the Sharingan and the Rinnegan, creating an amalgam of Nagato’s techniques without the limitations of being a cripple and not using Gedo Mazo. The insert of the Rinnegan being the next step of the Sharingan just removes any possible buildup for Tobi when we finally get to see him properly fight and IMO just makes Madara another giant obstacle that just needs to be toppled down.
Unless Kishimoto creates some sort of revelation like Tobi being Izuna then joining up with Madara as brothers with the powers of the Rinnegan, I won’t lie in saying that this feels more like an unnecessary retcon to hype up an already much hyped-up enemy. In other words, very counter-productive (it almost killed any hype I had from the previous chapter) and comes across as bad writing.
I honestly wished that Madara was gonna be used as a demonstration of the Uchiha’s full capacity to fight, which would’ve given us a chance to see the full extent of a pure Uchiha combatant. Instead we get a God-Mode combo of not only a Sharingan user, but also a Rinnegan user? WHAT??? As if seeing Nagato in his “prime” wasn’t enough already (granted he was controlled by Kabuto and he didn’t have Gedo Mazo which didn’t help), we get someone else (who’s already established as a legend himself) that pretty much happens to just mysteriously master it before his death, conveniently allowing Kabuto to exploit such powers.
This of course is only my opinion, as I can see that a lot of people are happy with the chapter. I will not lie in saying that I’m actually enjoying the consistent pace of the recent Bleach chapters more since at least it feels like Kubo has actually carefully plotted out his most recent arc (unlike a lot of the Arrancar Saga), and while I’m still open for Naruto to get better, it better offer a damn good reason why such a revelation even had to be introduced in the first place.
I understand where you’re coming from because as soon as the chapter was over i was thinking “I don’t care who the hell tobi is, because madara is a monster” I don’t know how tobi can have a huge impact, he lost all his hype, i don’t know how he can be stronger than madara unless tobi is some random character like tsunade’s dad or something (who is never spoke of) but i do agree with your post
on a side note how can tobi be obito when he was his body was crushed…people argue he still had his right eye, but he didn’t lol it was completely shattered by a boulder
I think tobi was named that just to keep us thinking what we do, that tobi is obito especially since tobi displayed a goofy persona when he was first introduced….but TOBI is NOT obito lol
I figured out that the more I read a good book, the more intelligent I get. You might wish to include that to your post