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「昏黒乙女」 (Konkuro Otome)
“Black Sunset Maiden”
Yuuko can’t be creepy! She is just a childish shotacon. No wait! That might be creepy…
Before I write my impressions, I just want to say that I’m very happy to be able to cover this show. While this season has offered us a variety of flashy shows, well written plots, good animation, amazing music – it also has shows like Tasogare Otome x Amnesia – a sweet, mellow show that has a little bit of everything good in it. I love this show way more than I thought I would when I wrote the preview post for it.
So how can a mellow show, in a season like this, be so good? My answer for that question is hands down – Yuuko. She is definitely my favorite character for this season, and I love her regardless of her appearance. Be it a skeleton, ugly emotions, a shotacon, or simply a naked Yuuko – she is perfect!
Like I’d expected last week, we got our final introduction – Kanoe Kirie, the relative of Yuuko, and with that, our cast has assembled, and the club is now complete! The reason why Kirie could see Yuuko was an old photograph of Yuuko. Kirie turned out to be Yuuko’s younger sister’s grandchild, and because Kirie was aware of this, she could see Yuuko. But the Yuuko she could see was a tad different from the one we’ve seen lingering around Teiichi. And why is that? – Well, that’s the mystery of the week.
Most mystery shows have an episode where “spiriting away” is a problem, just like this episode. I don’t want to reveal too much so I’ll make a long story short: Kirie saw Yuuko as an ugly being because she believed Yuuko to be a ghost who attracts people, spiriting them away. But that turned out to be a mistake because Yuuko’s body is in a place full of protection wards and charms. So who is this evil spirit behind the rumor? That question remains unanswered for now.
With that problem solved (about Yuuko, not the spiriting away), we now have our fourth club member, and she seems to be a tsundere – not that I mind. I’m looking forward to her character development. But what I’m looking forward to the most will always be Yuuko. She is so unpredictable and fun to watch – especially her relation with Teiichi, a remarkable relation.
I was a bit pissed when Teiichi listened to Kirie and doubted Yuuko, but I’m glad everything turned out to be wrong. I guess it’s because I love Yuuko so much, even though what Teiichi did was the only logical thing to do. And speaking of Teiichi – I said it last week and I’ll say it again – he sure is lucky…
Having that being said, I’d like to introduce you to “Stereoman’s corner”, another version of the “Random thoughts” you’ve seen on some other posts by the other writers. I thought it’d be fun to use it because there is something I’d like to discuss with you this week.
Stereoman’s corner
Anime characters not looking like their age is pretty common, but usually it’s there as a fun thing. I’ll use Honey from Ouran High School Host Club as an example. He is the oldest character (among the hosts) but his appearance is that of a child. While this example is clearly one made for the fun of it, there are some others that might make bring up questions. A good example of a character not looking like his age is Stiyl from Toaru Majutsu no Index. Did you know that he is 14? And now you may be wondering why I’m bringing this stuff up in a Tasogare Otome x Amnesia post. Well, the thing is… Teiichi is 12 years old (his age was revealed recently in the manga but I don’t consider this being a spoiler because it’s mentioned in the first two episodes that they’re all middle school students)!
So my questions (that are hopefully worth being discussed here) are the following:
Does it bother you that young characters look much older than they are (and do stuff they probably shouldn’t do at that age according to the norms)? Does this affect your view on the show? Do you ignore this matter? If you do, can you please tell me why?
I thought I’d give my opinion on it, and also note that I don’t want this to be a heated debate, I just want to know what you guys think.
As for me, I don’t let myself get bothered with the age factor anymore. I think it’s because I’m too used to seeing “what is supposed to be weird is positive” in anime. But still, I tend to find some things disturbing. Stiyl for an example, it bothers me that he is 14. I’ll be honest; I don’t like seeing a boy of that age smoking. I don’t consider anime to be a bad influence on people, I don’t. But it bugs me that someone of that age smokes (it bugs me in real life too).
Teiichi on the other hand, I’m not sure whether it’s disturbing or not. If I look at it from Yuuko’s perspective, I find it pretty reasonable. She has been alone and finally found someone so it’s only natural for her to spend time with that person. Teiichi is just helping her, he isn’t “doing” anything (ignoring Kirie’s accusations). Teiichi is just the victim of Yuuko’s perverted childishness (or gets stuck in perverted accidents involving groping), and I don’t mind that because she is 15 (and has probably been dead for a while) and probably hides a maturity inside her.
I don’t let things like these affect my view on the whole show itself. If I’m bothered by something in a show, I just question that particular thing itself, not the whole show. After all, it is just a small detail in something so very big. I certainly hope that people don’t drop shows for an age factor, because a show has much more to give than that.
So, there you have my opinions on this matter. Please share yours. This discussion is not meant to offend anybody or start a heated debate. This is just a part of my random curiosity!
Full-length shots: 4, 11, 20, 25, 31
Note 1: Using 1080p again!
Note 2: Please, use the spoiler tags!
Note 3: If someone’s opinion annoys you, please don’t argue with that person, this is supposed to be a friendly discussion.
Note 4: I’m very sorry, I didn’t expect the discussion to be in the way. I won’t do this kind of thing again!
Preview
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hmm ep 2,3 was quite a good opening can’t see how the first ep was necessary.
about the discuss: i don’t think its matter as long the character suit the anime, i mean seriously while watching an anime you’re not gonna start asking how old the characters are.
plus its an anime, in anime you usually seeing young characters because the old ones not really interesting the anime fans they boring. look at your example “Honey” from: Ouran High School Host Club, it’ll be no fun if he look older think about it, the younger the funnier. old looking guys are serious but not the young one.
oh shit, i just read the post more carefully and you were bothered by young characters that look much older. never mind my comment, though i still thing its doesn’t matter as long as the character suits the anime, probably they(developers\writers) using young-old characters because they looks more reliable and cool unlike the young looking one they more suited to be protected but young-old looking guys, looks like they can kick some ass, but if they old(age 20-100) and look old, its just not gonna go, unless its a father or older brother. its anime after all, its all about young school students no matter how they look.
no matter how ugly yuuko’s true form looks like, she’s still so cute and pretty in my heart.
The closest thing Yuuko has to a true form is what we normally see: the lovely girl. The hideous form is simply what Kirie believed Yuuko truly looked like (due to encountering something that hasn’t been explained in detail yet in the anime), and when Kirie described it to Teiichi, Teiichi’s doubts about Yuuko were enough to alter his perception of her. Remember, Yuuko explained last time that when someone looks at a ghost they see what they expect to see in that situation. Because Kirie and then Teiichi expected to see Yuuko as a monster, they did.
What I find impressive is that Teiichi was able to overcome the evidence of his eyes and remake Yuuko in his mind to be the girl he knew her to be.
Yuuko said it herself last episode that people perceive her the way they want to. Kirie at first saw her in her true visual form until she encountered something she thought was Yuuko ghost. Teiichi view of Yuuko was altered believing in what Kirie described so adamantly.
Well I did shat bricks when I read that Teiichi is 12. But it doesnt bother me that much, nor is the fact that some characters in other anime look and act well above their age. I guess it’s a good topic to discuss but I’ll just leave it at that.
As for the episode, Yuuko HHHHHNNNNNGGGGGHH!!
That is all.
1080 again? You an A+ dood, Stereoman!
I really like this show, Yuuko is such a good character (even without the fan service). I find myself laughing when she is just being silly. I was really disappointed that the show might be taking a different direction with her character this week, but when the accusations were resolved I felt a little better.
As for the discussion, it seems to me that anime usually uses middle school characters and puts them in situations that are more appropriate for a high school character to be dealing with. Since this is the norm in anime, I am used to it, so it doesn’t bother me. When I think about it, however, I feel like the characters’ ages should be adjusted for the the way they act and what they are dealing with.
I see a lot of middle school students in anime who seem entirely too mature to be in middle school. I’ve never seen so many mature middle school students in my life! In any case, the anime style allows for younger people to seem older than they are, so I don’t think it should be bothersome. You just have to translate their looks, actions, and problems into the age you think is appropriate for them.
Off the top of my head, in theory, the only instance that I could think of where characters not looking their age may be a significant problem is if they blatantly lowered the age of a character simply for the sake of having him/her fit into the context of whatever high-school premise they’re trying to push without altering their appearance for a younger look- these characters would neither look their age nor act it and would appear to be extremely uncanny as a result. Like I said, this is a theoretical character type; I’ve seen everything in between (i.e. between not looking their age and not acting their age), but I can’t really think of any examples that fall under both extremes. The best example I can offer is if you took a really young character like Uso Ewin and made him look and act like Char- utterly ridiculous outside of some outlandish comedy show. Let me know if you can think of better examples…
It’s a sliding scale, basically. The more you crank up the “doesn’t look his/her age” and “doesn’t act his/her age” knobs concurrently, the more offensive the combination potentially becomes, reliant on various other factors like the show’s premise of course- like Detective Conan- kid acts nothing like a kid; “doesn’t act his age is cranked up to the max” but it isn’t offensive in the slightest because the premise justifies it.
Anyways, that was my 3 minutes…
LOL, Stiyl Magnus from Index is like 6’5″, and he’s fourteen. Fourteen.
I mean, when I was that age, I was 5’6″ and could grow a beard that made me look like a 32-year-old biker, so I have some firsthand experience with early maturation and development, but still.
I think that the older than they look characters are often a result of the “creep” demographic anime has i.e. pedopandering. Not always, but often.
I honestly have no clue about the ones that look 20 but are 14 types.
(And I’m totally going to get slammed for the first part of this comment)
Actually, now that i think about it, it might be to make the sexualisation less creepy. In Teichi’s case, I had no idea he was 12, so the scenes with Yuuko seemed okay. Now I’m a little uncomfortable.
Or it could be because it tries to make the sexualization of an extremely young character like Teichi less creepy? Haven’t seen Index, so no comments on that, but in this case, that might be it.
I never have known that they are middle school students! I can’t believe I missed that detail in the first 2 episodes.
Prince of Tennis, Ah! The only characters that looks genuinely middles-choolers are Ryouma and his first year buddies everyone else could be very well considered as college or adults.
I think this Stereoman’s corner should be separated from this post. When reading about Tasogare (or any other impressions about an episode), what I want to read are opinions/comments about the show not a different discussion.
I respectfully agree. A discussion of this sort should be on a different post as it is not limited to just this anime.
Ah, okay. I included this because it came to mind through this show. But this is not something I intend to keep on doing. I might ask Stilts to talk about this in one of his editorials. :]
Sorry for the trouble!
Awesome idea to keep talking about it. I thought it was a great thought provoking piece. I just felt that it distracted a little bit from your awesome coverage!
“Stereoman’s food for thought”? I don’t find it distracting, if that’s any consolation. It’s relevant to the post, and you could have just as easily incorporated it into the prose.
This could very well be in the “Miscellaneous” section. The topic is BROAD and shouldn’t be limited to the four corners of this episode impression.
I like the very idea of topics that is something anything anime besides the usual episode impressions. I guess bringing in a plethora of new writers is a very good idea 🙂
I don’t mind watching Yuuko naked every week. ^_^
Hell, since C^3, Silver Link really put a great effort in fanservice department, now that’s a good thing.
loking past the fan service… you gotta appreciate the abstract art that they put in it.
Teiichi’s only 12? What does that make Kirie? The age thing doesn’t bother me but I am curious if it’s important to the story or if the author just wanted to stray from the High School norm.
Kirie is 14 years old.
Actually even middle school is norm, I prefer they made it as if they are college people, now that is not very norm, but I guess the expectations would be different (as it demands something more than just ecchi/fanservice). Which ever the case, I just tend to ignore their declared age, to me they are high schoolers 🙂
Well, if i would only go how they look, no one from the looks really like a high schooler except for Yuuko. And i don’t see any reason why someone would ignore how old they are or feel bothered about it.
It isn’t as strange as you might think. Kids these days are doing drugs, smoking, dating listening to crap music. When I was their age, all i did was play video games. ofc not all of them but mostly they do act like that.
Amongst the 16 shows I’m currently watching this season, I must say Tasogare Otome, Sankarea, and Accel World are the ones that are really standing out. While it’s true that the “real” reason why I ever even tried these shows are mostly because of the female characters on the promotional art, still I must say I’m really extra satisfied that their character designs are not just for show, the said shows all have a good start and development, now I’m very excited where the shows are heading.
I like this guy; he watches both our shows =) hehe*
I love the idea of your updated “corner” ^^ You never told me you were doing that! =O It’s a good way to put some unique features to your posts!
And now for my random thoughts on the ep – definitely my favorite so far… I like Kirie, she adds a lot of “attitude” to the team which makes it interesting =)
Don’t get me wrong – I like this very much so far.
I don’t know if I should take it as a serious dark mystery with a little humour,
or a humorous series with some dark mystery added into the mix.
I liked how we’re introduced to the club, then 2 episodes to see how the member joined.
Good write up, Stereoman!
All of the characters have been assembled – I want to see where it goes…
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/https://randomc.net/image/Tasogare%20Otome%20x%20Amnesia/Tasogare%20Otome%20x%20Amnesia%20-%2003%20-%20Large%2030.jpg
This face here can launch a thousand memes, if given the chance.
Moar hand holding moments plz
Yuuko’s what, like 65 or thereabouts? She doesn’t look it or act like it though. If she loses her memories periodically, she may as well just be a kid. A ghost, yes, but still a kid on the inside. She doesn’t accrue life experiences the way normal people do, which is why she hasn’t really matured much in the fifty-odd years she’s been dead.
Of course Show Spoiler ▼
Since when was a childish shotacon creepy!? Tasteless fools, you will never attain true enlightenment.
Female shotacon that is…
Indeed, I meant to say female shotacons. God bless them.
Warning & Disclaimer: offensive material to anime fans imminent.
Show Spoiler ▼
Fast Eddie has basically been taking a ginormous shit in his own nest. It started with giving all the anime-related tropes generic, westernized names. Then, there were the example section removals. Now, there’s this page culling bullshit.
It’s enough to make me want to start my own TV Tropes rival, one where obscene content, flame wars and natter of all kinds are allowed and encouraged.
Uh, that’s cause they are in fact pedoshit? Yes, I’m going to offend a lot of people with this, but who cares.
Let’s see: KnJ is about an 8-year old girl trying to bone her teacher and this is represented via highly sexualised images.
LnO is about a 10-year old succubus who has to drink semen to survive. It also involved (ew) a 23-year old man with a 9 year old daughter.
Strike Witches is about young girls flying without pants. Yeah.
None of these shows are anything but complete pedopandering. Why else would you sexualise a young child. That’s messed up, man.
I sincerely doubt that any of these shows were created with an intention to NOT titillate pedophiles. “Lolicon” and “Shotacon” are merely the Japanese words for liking small children sexually, and are equivalent to pedophilia. It’s a wonderful euphemism in English because it sounds softer when you use a foreign word, right?
@Allanx: You know why the paagecutting started? Because Google realised that this “family-friendly” site was a nest of pedophilia and rape-fetishism. I don’t think FE gives a damn about a bunch of butthurt pedos if his ad revenue is being affected. Just sayin’.
Uh, I can finally say that moral faggotry is everywhere.
All works mention isn’t made to titillate, whatever that means, people.
KnJ is a solid story about three girls growing up while facing tons of problems and a teacher who made it his duty to help them.
LnO is also a solid story about a ten year old succubus who refuses to grow up. She surrounds herself with women and the only two men around her at best plays the role of father figure.
Strike Witches is a story about what is WWII if aliens invaded instead of Hitler.
Can you please tell your fellow moral faggots: Hands off our anime.
seriously… moral faggots gotta learn to look past all the “immoralities” of the show
Yes, we must all look past the sexualisation of children because child-rape/statutory rape is A-OK if it’s in my animes q.q!
No.
What rape? What sexualization? No such thing, man. Are you and your ilk on drugs when watching anime?
well pple, like what kanoe yuuko has emphasised for the past 3 episodes, it’s all based on the perspectives of the viewer….
similarly, if in your mind, all you see are sexualisations of characters, that’s all you’d see
@Pleaides: A nest of pedophilia and rape fetishism? Look, just because it includes things from the darker side of humanity, that doesn’t mean that’s all there is to it.
If you aim to be all-inclusive and exhaustive about literary tropes that run the gamut of human behavior and psychology, it’s only natural that you’re going to end up encountering some rather nasty stuff along the way.
I think it’s ludicrous that advertisers (and the prudes who complain to advertisers) get to dictate the content of the web in order to support their silly Victorian notions of morality. Humans already exist in a state of perpetual self-denial, constantly refusing to acknowledge our failings and issues.
Sometimes, I wonder if people only censor things because they want to be able to live with seeing their reflection in a mirror, at the expense of denying others the edification they deserve. It’s a coping strategy, and nothing more.
If people can’t learn to accept the darkness in the human spirit, they should get the hell off the internet instead of trying to whitewash everything.
If this was all “pedo shit” then where are all the catholic priests? I’d assume they’d be watching this in droves if this were true. Oh wait… It’s not all about little boys.
And Allanx – well said.
http://www.dannychoo.com/post/en/1261/Lolita+Culture.html
You just copying Stilts’ Onii-chan corner 😛
The most extreme case of looking like an age group but not really is that would be recorder to ransel.
Wait, Teiichi is 12? I thought he was 14 or 15.
I have to say I was pissed off at Teiichi when he doubted Yuuko. It spoiled the episode for me quite a bit and changed my initial impressions about Kirie.
I don’t really care about age or whatever. Yuuko is just brilliant! She’s pushing for being one of my favorite characters as well.
what did i tell you stereoman….. its worth checking out if its from SILVERLINK…
heck… that’s the rule for me when it comes to SILVERLINK and SHAFT… watch first, ask questions later
^This. Pretty much. SILVERLINK has proven itself time and time again with the Baka Test series.
I understand the fear of ghosts that some people have, but when I watch anime ghosts tend to be misunderstood and the like. Seeing ghost how most people view them gives the anime a sort of realism that can be related too, I have my fair share of the paranormal or unexplained situations, and the reaction is to be praised.
This is the second anime that I’ve watched that involves shotacon, the first being Kanokon.
I’m not sure it gets better or not, but definitely it gets more interesting
Age is just for reference unless there’s something significant the author wanted to do with it; deliberately playing on a particular genre for example. We do see it here but it’s not shotacon, it’s the other way around. It’s showing the attraction of older, more mature female rather than young guys.
Personally I can’t see this show as shotacon since they can be in high school and the story can still work. There’s nothing in this anime that requires them to be in middle school, unless there’s a reason why yuuko has to die, sacrificed etc. at that age. Yes, yuuko is the older of the two, but she is also the sempai, the nee-san, and the main focus. She is THE reason why people watch the show. Her (relatively) older age is what is important here not the MC being young.
So this at this point already. Will all the content this series has to go through, i guess skipping some of the ‘lesser’ chapters to get to any significant point in the story. (That’s not necessarily true, but with the amount of material this series is going to ‘try’ to go through. Some things had to be cut.) I just hope they don’t cut out too much.
As for the age discussion. I always figured there was a age gape between Yuuko and Teiichi. (Minus the 70 odd years Yuuko has been dead.) So it didn’t really bother me. Though i figured Teiichi was around 14 or 15 and Yuuko 17 or 18 (Once again, minus the years. Since she became a ghost.) So the whole ‘Shotacon’ thing didn’t come to mind. Even how with the age gape (minus the ghost thing) increased slightly. From what i thought. it’s still not an issue. However if Teiichi was 12 and Yuuko was 17 (once again, minus the ghost thing)…then it might be a bit of one. Then again, given the premise of the story, it would be less weird then it would in a different one.
Age in manga/anime is just a number (most of the time) since despite what ‘age’ the character(s) are. There still going to do things/act like most young adults do. A fact that most of us have probably gotten used to /accepted. However, when ‘age’ is no longer a number and used to cater to ‘something else.’ Then it gets a little weird. (IE, young kids acting like young adults and going after…young adults/adults.) Despite what ‘premise’ it falls under. It’s still weird. There’s nothing wrong with people who like this sort of thing, it’s just something that i don’t.
As I understood the japanese school system, Teichi is currently a freshman in High School and Yuuko a High School senior. That made Teichi 15 and Yuuko 17-18… which seemed to accurately target their relative maturity levels and what I saw as the target audience of the manga/anime.
After looking here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Education#School_grades
I realized that it could also be middleschool, so being a 12 years old freshman and a 15 years old senior (in looks) could make sense. But that hits my suspension of disbelief harder, as I wasn’t nearly as mature at that age.
Ultimately, unless contradictory information crops up (and I don’t weight what was presented in the manga this hevily) I think I’d rather go with “what makes the most sense in my head” to sustain suspension-of-disbelief.
Just went through the 3 eps.
Another anime that makes me think that Japanese High School clubs are awesome 😛
The 3 episode felt like a roller coaster of tension.
The light-hearted, funny and teasing feel with just Niiya and Yuuko.
Then when another character gets in the atmosphere tenses, Yuuko changes.
Kind of reached the highest point in ep3 but settle down again at the end.
Looks like its going to be short stories and in the background the main story about Yuuko’s death.
I get the feeling that Chitanda Eru will like to be in this school 😛
The art and animation are top notch in this one too.
Some pretty nice sequences like the framing when Niiya was running in the forest to meet Kirie, the scrolling darkness in the food elevator and the double take with and without Yuuko.
I feel that the horror ‘feel’ in ep3 is better than that of Another.
The sealed shrine in the basement, a possible other spirit.
The plot thickens.
6 manga volumes, 12 episodes.
Will there be a season 2?
wew man was it just me or the actual evil spirit seemed to have its/her arm twisted all the way around? D:
Ah, I love this anime. Yuuko’s awesome.
And in regards to the characters not looking their age, and such, it doesn’t bother me. I’ve learnt to expect all sorts when it comes to anime :p
I love Yuuko too! I really hope they don’t turn this into one of those typical shows where the main guy is being smothered by horny women and is indecisive about who to choose. I want to see more development between Teiichi and Yuuko! >.<
And really? 12? I do hope your right about the fact that they were mentioned as middle school students in the earlier episodes (I don't remember it). It doesn't really bother me but I do find it a bit annoying when it's completely unnecessary.
well they are following the manga very strictly,and this episode is a scene to scene adaptation of “Spirited Away”. The episode was good indeed but manga is much much better than this and for that “Spirited Away” chapter has much better explanation to why Teiichi droughts Yuuko at first & then makes up with her,as a character Yuuko has much more depth in her obsession with Teiichi,but I won’t state cause it’ll spoil all the fun for upcoming episodes.
Honestly I stopped caring about all these characters’ ages. They just don’t make sense most of the time and it’s just unnecessary information. Basically what you see is what you get. I gotta say that whole not looking like their age thing is indeed way overused in Index.
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