First Impressions / Girls und Panzer

「次はアンツィオです！」 (Tsugi wa Antsio Desu!)
“Anzio is Next!”

This was a week which shed a fair bit of light onto some of the questions that have come up earlier in the series. Perhaps the most notable is Miho’s past and upbringing. Given that her mother (Touma Yumi) taught that the Nishizumi motto prided victory over all else, it’s not all that much of a surprise that Miho ran away when she caused a loss. Nor is it much of a surprise that Maho would treat her coldly (though it seems she’s always been rather stoic) in face of that fact. It’s a little strange where things are going in terms of the PTSD thread – was that scene in the river the one we’re supposed to associate with it? It seems to be heavily implied that it was. But then, if she saved those people (I imagine she would react very differently to what Yukari said if she hadn’t, unless she’s repressing the memories but I still doubt we’re going into those reaches of grimdark) and her only failure was in the loss itself, then perhaps the PTSD has been completely overblown by fandom. It’s been a pretty light-hearted series so far so there’s no guarantee that the first emergence of the supposed PTSD wasn’t used entirely for exaggerated comic effect. I’m not fully willing to dismiss it just yet, but for now, it seems we may have diverged from the concerning events I’d heard about in the so-called prequel manga.

The Nishizumi teachings also taught something else, something that Miho apparently didn’t take as seriously as prioritising victory or she would never have fled in the wake of the losses she caused: ‘No matter what happens, we move forwards.’ It’s a much better motto than doing whatever it takes to win, and one that Miho has started to follow unconsciously. Despite everything that happened to her in the past, she’s taken up leading tanks and winning battles for her team while enjoying it the whole time. When the series started, she was unwilling to move on – still clinging to the idea that she’d have nothing to do with the way of the tank, but since being forced into the role, she’s learnt how to put the past behind her and move forwards.

Thankfully, the entirety of the drama I was worried about at the end of the previous episode was deftly sidestepped. Instead of being drawn out, it had already been cast aside before the episode began, instead giving us a glimpse of the dynamic between Mako and her loud and fiery grandmother (Aikawa Rikako). Not all families show their feelings openly – on the surface, Mako and her grandmother don’t seem to get along at all, nor do they seem particularly close given that she was unaware of Mako’s tank driving. But they still obviously care about each other as the only remaining family they have, Mako’s parents having died in an accident.

Finally, we have the smaller titbits of information such as when the way of the tank was founded and why they’re on impossibly large ships. It makes a lot of sense for most of the schools to have independence – it fits right in with the national themes of each of the teams. I have to wonder if each of these independent groups go so far as to mimic things such as the laws of the countries their teams represent. One thing that wasn’t explained is just how Oarai manage to lose their tanks in such ridiculous places. Their search this time found them a Tiger P deep within the ship (and some sailor girls too!), a Renault B1 Bis stuck in a river, and a 7.5cm KwK 40 L/43 used for hanging laundry. Hopefully next week we’ll get to meet the two new teams that crew them!

It was inevitably going to happen at some point – the series’ run was never going to support showing every single battle and episodes would have to be conserved somewhere for the glorious Pravda battle and the climatic face-off between Miho and Maho. I’m not really going to complain about it since this episode brought us some background info while simultaneously deepening the bonds between the different teams and showing us how their feelings towards the way of the tank have evolved. But at the same time, I feel as though a little more of the episode could’ve been devoted to Anzio. It would’ve been nice to see how Oarai managed to swing a victory, though from the single image we saw, it seems like Anzio fluked their way past the French (or maybe were surrendered to har har) even more so than Oarai did against Saunders.

tl;dr: @MoombaDS – More tanks join the Oarai line-up and we finally get some answers! #GaruPan

Random thoughts:

  • Everyone wants a piece of Miho! Must be tough being that popular!
  • Saori is the only member of the team who apparently has nothing she can do to help in relation to the way of the tank. I don’t think I’d trust her with love advice either!
  • I never really noticed how tall the volleyball team are before…
  • Yukari gets her own name courtesy of the history team: Guderian!
  • It seems like Reizei is even more sleepy this episode despite her words to the contrary!

Full-length images: 13, 19, 24, 27, 33.

 

ED1.07 Sequence

ED: 「Enter Enter MISSION !」 by 渕上舞、茅野愛衣、尾崎真実、中上育実、井口裕香 (Fuchigami Mai, Kayano Ai, Ozaki Mami, Nakagami Ikumi, Iguchi Yuka)

Preview

183 Comments

  1. Its nice to see how Miho really cares about the people she’s around with. And saving a tank crew from a sinking Panzer is no easy feat. Losing a Panzer may be detrimental , but losing the lives of the crew and their experience will be more tragic in my opinion ( specially if these were your friends or people you work with.) Despite the lack of action , this episode more than made up for it by good storytelling. Although I am wondering why they didnt show the new upgrades being installed , and used in subsequent battle , I am hoping that they would do so in the next episode. Id really love to see how the battle with Anzio played out. Still , Girls und Panzer remains one of my favorites for this season.

    PS. THAT Volleyball team!

    Renegade_Saber
    Reply

    1. “Although I am wondering why they didnt show the new upgrades being installed, and used in subsequent battle, I am hoping that they would do so in the next episode.”

      IIRC, the student council did say that the new upgrades can’t be installed in time for the match vs. Anzio (not like they needed it). However, I’m pretty sure that the upgrades will be used in the upcoming match vs. Pravda. And they’ll definitely need it, especially the new gun on the Panzer IV.

      Incognito
      Reply

  2. It’s kinda funny to know the episode title mention about Anzio, yet they only showed the battle in only 5 seconds (how could they deploy tankette in senshado?). Also, it makes me smiling when she’s a bit disappointed when Caesar called her Montgomery, yet when Erwin called her Guderian, she approved it right away.

    Overall, it’s pretty much a preparation to the upcoming match against Pravda. Since that school is the one that fought against Miho in previous tournament, seems that this is going to be revenge battle. Hope they could deploy the Tiger for the battle!

    P.S.: Is it me, or is the tank a bit different than the previous one? Not only the turret…

    Kevin Yamagata
    Reply

      1. Actually, they are just up-gunning the Ausf D. Any Ausf D’s being sent back to the factory for repairs or refitting would have received the L/43 as part of the upgrades to compete against the heavier enemy armor they were encountering. It is still an Ausf D, with the same gun as the F and G, but not exactly the same tank as an F or G.

        mk
        Reply

    2. Yukari was disappointed with Caesar because Caesar thought Montgomery used the Char B1. Erwin corrected her by saying that it was Guderian who used the tank. Well, the History Team is known to mess up their history. In one of the earlier episodes, Erwin said the Finnish used the StuG III during the Winter War. This is also not true.

      Lurker
      Reply

      2. Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Initially, I was thinking Yukari is a bit Germanophile (like to be called Guderian, dreaming about Leopard 2), though now I’m thinking that’s not the case. After all, her favorite tank is Polish one…

        Kevin Yamagata
        Reply

      3. According to the director, the mistakes were intentional. They wanted to portray the History Club as a bunch of nerds but constantly making mistakes because their knowledge was only high school level. Its probably why they easily warmed up to Yukari’s tank nerdiness.

        It should be noted that this anime has the same war historian consultant as Strike Witches. So they wouldn’t make mistakes unless deliberate.

        fragb85
        Reply

      4. Finland got StuG III`s in 1943. But history team is very enthusiastic, next thing they have to do is to get their facts right!
        Btw, i am wondering if drowning deaths can really occur in Senshadoo? Miho rescued that team in their drowning tank by opening a hatch, but what could have happened if she didn`t do it?
        Where are those special security measures when something like that happens?

        Kari Manninen
        Reply

  4. My respect for Miho reaches new heights thanks to the flahsback. Think of the actual Nizhizumi Style like the Ferrari F1 of now: “win at all cost, even if we are unethical and cheap.” They have forgotten that Panzercraft is not a war, something that Kei remind us all. More than ever, Miho’s new mission should be to remind her family what’s the real deal of the Panzercraft. Maho’s main issue is that Miho WAS Black Forrest batallion commander (as seen as the flag tank), so maybe she’s set up for beating her younger, but obviously more talented tankist.
    With the findings of the B1, the Tiger(P) and the new cannon for the PzIV, the field is now more even, but Oarai needs at least another medium tank (one of Pravda’s T-34/85 as gift, anyone?) for the final match to be epic. Duck Team showed that their aim is equal to Hana (please, let them have the Tiger(P)) and with the guide of the Ankou Team, Oarai is now a force to reckon. Shame that Anzio had to pay the prize of the 12 ep series.

    SeedStriker
    Reply

  5. Haha, talk about Anzio being nothing more than a “scratch on the paintjob” for Ooarai… Heck, even the Duck Team and the Rabbit Team might have been able to get a “kill” in that match. XD

    I’m pretty sure Maginot and Anzio were set up to be the pushover teams that Ooarai can easily triumph over if it were to face either…it’s just that Maginot became cheese-eating surrender monkeys(?) to Anzio.

    Anyway, I wonder if Miho’s PTSD will somehow act up again once they’re up against Pravda next episode? Remember that Pravda’s win last year was indirectly due to Miho deciding to rescue her teammates from Black Forest High. So if Pravda manages to put Ooarai in a pinch (they’re no pushovers compared to Anzio), will that memory still come back to haunt Miho?

    I’m hoping to get a good view of Pravda’s lineup (I’m pretty sure they’ll max it out to 10 tanks) next week.

    Incognito
    Reply

      2. From one post I’ve read, there is still one tank missing (tank number 7)…
        And Tiger is a Heavy Tank, one of the best…
        Though what they find isn’t the normal Tiger I that used in war…

        Ante
        Reply

      4. I felt so unlike strange. How did that Tiger ends up in carriers basement below and how did they move the Tiger with that small compartment? Maybe they dismantle and re-mantle back in storage basement. By the look of the Tiger, hard to tell either early or mid production.

        Finally they got 2 new tank and Char B1 is very reckoning for heavy frontal amour. Hell even I had hard time knocking the Char B1 for sometime. I fear her 75 mm cannon rather than her 47 mm. Lucky for me in WoT, I disable her movement and had to fire more than 5 time with amour piercing.

        Finally PzIV got an upgrades. Can’t wait for the match with Pravada…

        SgtKurtz
        Reply

      5. @SgtKurtz – Considering that late model Panzer IV and Panther tanks had 80mm of front armor, Tigers 100mm and the Elefant (according to Wiki) 200mm of front armor (Tiger’s 100mm + 100mm bolted on. While the M4 Sherman had 51mm of frontal armor, turret armor ranged from 64–76mm and mantlet armor was 76mm thick. In short, while 60mm maximum armor was quite thick at the start of the war, it became average or even substandard by 1943-1944.

        As for the 75mm gun, we have another short barreled, low velocity Howitzer canon rather than a true anti-tank gun. From pictures, it looks even shorter than the M3 Lee’s 75mm M2 (replaced by the longer barreled M3 on the Sherman). JMO, but I bet the M2 75mm is a slightly better AT gun than the Bis’ 75mm Howitzer which isn’t encouraging. The 47mm gun was really the B1 Bis AT weapon, and as you correctly suggest, isn’t something any decent, mid-late war model enemy tank should fear.

        I view the B1 Bis as the French version of the M3 Lee, albeit arguably a better designed M3. Admittedly, the B1 certainly proved to be a worthy design during the invasion of France. However, one must consider that success in context of the opposition at the time. According to Guidarian, Germany invaded France with 523 Panzer Is, 955 Panzer IIs, 349 Panzer IIIs, 278 Panzer IVs (Ausf. A-D models), 106 Panzer 35(t)s and 228 Panzer 38(t) = 80% light tanks with the majority having a 37mm AT gun. Panther I’s had only twin MG-34s in the turret! The “best” AT gun was probably the Panther IV’s KwK 37 L/24 which we have already discussed at length as being inadequate.

        Overall, IMO, the Oarai group drew another “bad card” with the B1 Bis. Even with the heaven sent finding of a KwK 40 L/43 (dare we hope for a KwK 40 L/48?) barrel for the Panzer IV, they need two good additions. IMO they got 1 1/2.

        daikama
        Reply

    2. ive always wondered about how schools that are Polish, Japanese, Italian, etc. “themed” would have any chance/point in a tournament like this. we’ve already seen that the tank specs do matter (type 89 can’t penetrate the matilda 2 at close range) so why would schools with tanks from those countries even bother? (or, why would they choose that country theme and then try to compete?)

      Kasrkin519
      Reply

      1. For the same reason than every national team play to enter in the final World Cup stage of their sport. For them, even finishing at the top of their qualification brackets would be a huge achievement worth shedding buckets of sweat and tears of blood, and the matches in the tournament proper would be their own gratification.

        Granted if anything it looks like this tournament we are seeing had no preliminary (it might be itself a national preliminary to a continental or worldwide event), so the question becomes of hardware choices.

        It coulb be financial (how much do these things cost to acquire and then maintain ?), or maybe they cannot rebuild tanks, and have to use actual WWII vintage vehicles (with the ‘security upgrades’ added probably) ? If so that would severely limit the number of fighting vehicles available.

        Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Reply

  6. Think she lost that battle because she abandoned the mission in order to rescue that tank crew? If her family belieeves in victory at all costs, that could explain the antipathy.

    Steven Den Beste
    Reply

  8. clearly that new 40 L/43 cannon will be upgrade for panzer IV according to the new ending.
    moreover, looking forward to see new team ( musk team perhaps) in new tank (tiger P?) since volley or duck team maybe get used to their 89t tank already.

    Ps. poor Anzio hope next episode to flashback for their battle in the early part of the show

    black
    Reply

  9. I kinda think that they will show that battle next episode maybe? Kinda like how they showed a glimpse of their first battle at the start of the series but then backtracked up to it.

    GoodwillWright
    Reply

  10. This was a necessary episode and honestly we knew the fight against Anzio would be a joke anyway, so I’m not sorry it was skipped over.

    The beginning of this episode makes the melodrama at the end of episode 6 make sense. The lengthy somber music and the seeming desperation of the situation made it seem like a great tragedy had occured. The whole thing was overblown on purpose to emphasize that all the characters were overreacting. At least that’s how I see it and it works.

    I continue to reserve judgement on Maho for now but I’m really not liking her mother. If they value victory of human life than she is a terrible person and an equally bad mother. Wouldn’t it be ironic if Erika was one of the people she saved. Honestly though the match should have been pause if people were going to drown. In the end, it’s just a game, it’s not actual war, it’s a sport.

    Nice to see more of the History team and it seems that Yukari(Guderian) has become an honorary member. Nice to see Miho’s team helping her out, she has enough weight on her shoulders as it is.

    Looks like they were about to upgrade the Panzer IV 20 years ago but the club was disbanded before they could get it done. I wonder why they were disbanded. Also now they’ve found a tank with a gun that can threaten Maho’s Tiger.

    Sheesh, the First years are such babies, they’re high schoolers and their acting like elementary school kids. In the heat of battle it was more understandable but this…

    Regardless, few shows can handle having this many characters and even fewer can do it as well as this. Yukari is probably one of the more trope breaking characters in the sense that she hasn’t been treated as a side character or secondary character who occasionally get an episode devoted to her, rather she shines in every episode just as every other character has a chance to shine.

    Roguespirit
    Reply

  11. Tuesdays have never been so exciting. This episode truly had a lot of lulz moments. Provided you get the references.

    I must say, Reizei’s grandmother’s such a tsundere and I never knew that Hana is so pretty @_@.

    Anyway, back to the show itself… FINALLY THEY UPGUN TO THE L43! At least its WAY better than the L24, Espicially against the T34/85. I’m quite worried about the volleyball team though. They’d get decimated by the T34/85 and Anzu DID MENTION that the Type 89 itself is a weak tank relative to the B1.

    Finding the B1 wasn’t much of a surprise since I pretty much spoiled myself but the Tiger (P)… Now that’s something. I did not see the promotional material that featured it but it did took me by surprise. I was screaming Tiger Prototype when I saw it.

    The scene where Miho was mobbed by members of Kampfgruppe Miho was interesting but what made it better was that her crew offered their assistance. Now that they have pulled their act together, its time for them to get a Quatermaster to actually oversee the logistics and maintainence of the tanks

    And I pretty much love these lul moments during the show –
    – Yukari’s dream of Leo 2 (DATE ME PLEASE!)
    – Mommy Sanae and her little chicks
    – Antics of StuG crew and the creme de la creme….
    – “The Girl Who Stares To The Sky”

    Can’t wait for them to go against the Russians… Knowing Commie and their antics, I think we’re in for copious amounts of red banners and FOR THE MOTHER RUSSIA!

    c2710
    Reply

  12. I realize that Italian tanks are a joke, but I didn’t think we’d see barely 3 seconds of a battle. Dear Producers, please make the Anzio battle in one of the DVD extras.

    Mako’s grandma was amusing. I mean how many shows actually have a tsundere geriatric? It’s also nice to see the rest of the Teams do something more. My favorite part was how Yukari’s Tank otaku knowledge has made herself an unofficial member of the History club. They even give Yukari a soul name! Come to think of it, none of the official material ever reveal what the History club members real names are.

    I confess that I don’t know anything about French Tanks (noooo my tank nerd cred is gone!) but a little research seems to indicate that the Char B1 is a sturdy tank. Its good that Oorai has something that can take a couple of hits. Add to the increased firepower of a Tiger P and a new Gun for the Panzer they can finally be level with the other elite schools.

    P.S. SHIP IT! SHIP IT! SHIP IT!

    fragb85
    Reply

      1. Obviously they were French so they surrendered immediately.

        Disclaimer: I’d like to apologize to any actual French for the stereotype. It was just a joke. I’m perfectly aware of how valuable the French Resistance is the the Allied cause in WWII.

        fragb85
        Reply

      4. @fragb85: no worries, we French people (at least those of us that know our history) realize perfectly well that our overall performance in WWII was abysmal (and we cannot blame anyone for it but ourselves). Luckily we can always remember the Italians were even worse, though from another point of view you could say they were among the best contributors to the Allies cause. They certainly created enough problems for the Germans !

        Disclaimer: I’d like to apologize to any actual Italian for the stereotype 😉

        Kit-A-Ron-Ron-Kat
        Reply

    2. I can’t remember exactly, but wasn’t the Char B1 (and the British Matilda II) actually (supposed to be) overall better than the earlier Panzer tanks used at the time, and that it was more the newer German tactics that allowed them to get by?

      HalfDemonInuyasha
      Reply

      1. BEF Alled Tank perform better than any German tank consists of 38(t), Pz II, III, Early Model of PzIV. By far right, beside PzIV with narrowly firepower, out badly and out classes by Matilda II and Char B1. With superior in tank, BEF could win in 1st stage of war but, without the air supremacy and intelligence and also communication, BEF very lack of those. You should know during the Blitzkrieg tactic RAF embarks all it’s pilots and fighter for fearing of mass panic speeding Panzer all over Europe thus therefore leaving alone ground tank and troop to defend themselves from Stuka Ju-87 Dive Bomber.

        German also believe love creating false information and false radio communication because some of the radio operator are good in Europe language beside speaking German. From, illegal radio communicating can be done.

        Back to the tank, the only taking a Squad of Char B1 tank is a good co-operating of combine force of Pz III (longer barrel of 37 mm). The doctrine were this ; 5 Pz III concentrate on single Char B1 and out maneuvering in every angle. Firing when circling them. If 1 firing won’t hit but by another firing any angle can disable the tank…..

        For Matilda II, PzIII stand no chance since Matilda II frontal amour are to great for the 37 mm longer barrel and can bounce back. Only PzIV, support dive bombing by Stuka and Flak 18 AA Support can outclass Matilda II.

        SgtKurtz
        Reply

      2. Yes that’s right. Important to keep in mind though that the Char B1 puts a lot of work onto it’s crew who have to multitask a lot because there is only room in the turret for one person, and was not intended to fight other tanks.

        Roguespirit
        Reply

      3. There is a video in youtube telling about tank in 1st campaign in WW2. Let me find it and I copy the link here, should be a good intel on Char B1 and Matilta II and also the The Panzers too.

        SgtKurtz
        Reply

      5. Without looking anything up, I seem to remember that the French and British generals were stuck in a WWI mindset. Tanks were for infantry support and fortifications were going to trump attacking forces. Blitzkrieg and not playing fair (going around fortifications instead of head on attacks) didn’t seem to register with them until it was too late. The German air superiority and Stuka’s didn’t help.

        bear
        Reply

      6. Agree 100% with Bear. FWIW, I posted this in EP 05 comments:

        “France lost the war more than Germany won it. French military “leadership” was horrendous – indecisive, overly-cautious, and hugely procrastinating with decisions combined with zealous adherence to WWI tactics. From Hart’s History of the Second World War (p. 70) ‘It was the French High Command, however, which contributed most to Hitler’s success.’ Some credit for the victory should go to Germany, but even then, it was more due to one German commander, Guderian, than German High Command on the whole.”

        Another factor was that despite being “allies,” French & British military leaders didn’t work well with each other – adding to the confusion and delayed response to German attacks. Furthermore, despite “winning” WWI, France was simply exhausted mentally from years of trench warfare. The French leaders in particular really didn’t have the mind set necessary for another prolonged struggle.

        Lastly, to expand on Bear’s point about Blitzkrieg warfare, while French and Matilda tanks might be superior to German contemporary counterparts, any advantage can be quickly nullified by over-running defensive lines and cutting off supply lines.

        daikama
        Reply

  13. Hmmm… I just noticed that but…

    Might Caesar actually be a misstranslation of her name?
    When she calls Yukari inside the ship, Yukari clearly spells her name as Kaiser-dono.

    So maybe she’s not a reference to Julius Caesar but Willhelm II. instead.

    Zannafar
    Reply

    1. The way the Japanese spell Caesar is ka-e-sa-ru which, admittedly is close to Kaiser. However, her profile on the official site specifically mentions that she has a love for Roman history and with her cape reminiscent of Caesar’s it would be a bit of a long shot.

      Moomba
      Reply

      2. I think maybe that the one eye she always has open is the one she shoots with. I remember seeing an image of her with a bow on her back. Maybe that’s part of the reason she only has one eye open most of the time.

        Roguespirit
        Reply

    2. Kai-sar is the correct Latin pronunciation, though. The ‘C’ should be pronounced as a ‘K’. As a phonetic language, the Japanese pronunciation is “more” correct than the English one.

      Unfortunately, See-sar is the popular Western mispronunciation.

      Lurker
      Reply

  14. so now maho’s grandma is ok give tell maho & other keep focus on matches so now after long carry maho to school time for workout practices.

    more on miho’s past reveal she was in charge of flag tank til one of tanks fall in water cue rescue tank members but in cost lost the tank match.

    so after ya-da notice more tanks in school so found 2 more tanks during which search for 2nd tank yea maho is scared of ghost while searching for 1st year crew.

    now after bath match time & less than 5 seconds they win.

    wum
    Reply

  15. Uh, 20 Years and no rust… Or like i said, the Engineers works wonders to bring them up to shape. No one can now say, that these “Renault” has no Rust anywhere.. That Water “grave” dont looked “clean”. And the “gun Upgrade” looks rusty, too.

    Perhaps they can sneak in some of the Engineers Team on Screen, so the “Drivers” can thank them properly. But i think i saw some glimpse of them in the OP

    And Finaly, they explained why they live on so a Gigantic “Battleship”.

    Germanguy
    Reply

    1. Perhaps something alike “Thank you for your hard work, to bring the Panzers back to Work!”. “No Problem, we are happy to be of Service after 20 Years of Idle Status”. or “We are just Happy to show you our Resolution to repair anything!” or some like that

      Germanguy
      Reply

    2. I assume there will be more tank hidden somewhere in that great ex-army of sea carriers. No doubt bout it. Not only the tank but maybe the upgrade versions of tool and item that might or be proven useful to the team

      SgtKurtz
      Reply

  16. Aye, we did take a turn for the worse regarding the grimdark in the World of Tanks thread. So far a VERY entertaining episode, well worth the three hours on my end to blog it. I loved how quickly, or rather, how nicely Mako’s drama was wrapped up, which led to a nice transition into Miho’s own family problems.

    As for my impressions:

    My first is on Miho’s family. Her mother seems completely strict, and from my point of view, completely uncaring. Only wanting to win, something she no doubt impressed on her eldest daughter. It would seem she has yet to put this on Miho when the incident occurred, or that Miho has had some other source of inspiration or something that kept her being the one who cares more for her subordinates than an objective (posisbly a relative like her father, or someone in history). I can respect a person that would take it all to win, but even more if they can achieve that whilst being completely caring about the soldiers under their command. Possibly a reason why General Rommel is widely respected.

    The second is on the team Miho inherited. Coming from a ‘win regardless of the cost’ line of thinking, to be thrust upon people who have never experienced such shame but rather, preferring the camaraderie that Panzerfahren/Tankwondo brings, is rather lightening. It reminds me of one of the reasons I enjoyed Army ROTC. The comradeship between cadets, many of whom would be commissioned officers upon graduation, scores more to have enjoyed the experience. We got together, talked military, drilled military, and took with us lessons that would do well in both the military and civilian life. It’s the group that Miho can do best with, and something she can work on in bringing Ooarai to the top, at least to meet her elder sister in battle.

    Thirdly, the universe. I want to know how Panzerfahren was formed. When Hana and Yuzuko were going through the old Panzerfahren/Tankwondo paperwork, it would seem that it started in 1920, shattering my theory (in whole or in part) that this series is merely a ‘future history’ version. Panzerfahren came about in the 1920s? It was a time of prosperity for many places, particularly the US, but not Germany. Indeed it would probably give rise to WWII still since Rommel-chan’s soul name would be an in-universe version of Rommel, same with Yukari with Gudarian. The creation of the Academy Warships was a nice touch, and eggs us more into why the general premise is there.

    Fourth, is Anzio. It seemed that they were made to be the joke school. I mean it’s commander is named Anchovy and their emblem is that of a Pizza? Nevermind that Italian tanks were no better than some models (they had good, comparable models mid-war iirc) but seriously. This should’ve been billed as a character episode, but then again, with the matchmaking in the universe and the production needs in the real world, it was gonna be a given. On the other hand, Pravda would be hard, and am excited for that.

    Addition: I do hope no Italians were offended, I already had one write off a nicely worded ‘you didn’t do your homework’ post. ;-; I’m sorry!

    Fifth, the 7,5cm KwK 40 L/43 was shown. It was teased earlier with the silhouette in the eye-catch, but actually sporting it. It brings a whole bunch of new challenges for the team. I’m also wondering if the Panzer IV will be redone according to the Ausf. F2 design or the Ausf. G prior to the mounting of the L/48. Regardless, Ooarai now has a tank that can safely engage the T-34s that Pravda has, and with the addition of the Renault Char B1 bis, maybe have another team. I would think it’s just the Ausf. F2 mainly due to lack of sideskirts, but we shall see.

    Lastly, the Tiger. Who knows how it got there, no doubt it was Ooarai’s but still. Would Miho and her crew switch to the Tiger? Or will it be utilized by some other group? It would pack quite a punch for Ooarai, but I’m guessing it would be best used as the last resort. It might be added just prior to the beginning of the match against Maho and Black Forest Peak (speculation!) but who knows. It would make for an effective trump card, but for now, I am unsure if I can see Miho and Anglerfish in the Tiger. Just not yet.

    Addition: It is wishful thinking, but! I wonder if the girls she rescued, at least some of em, are the three that have not appeared yet past the OP? Jumping ship (no pun intended) to go after the only Nishizumi in Black Forest Peak’s history not be a Sergeant Rock type of leader, but rather a ‘Onee-chan to Her Subordinates’/’Father to His Men’. So maybe we have the crew to the Tiger P? If not the Renault Char B1 Bis.

    In terms of leadership styles, in my eyes you can’t really go full on Sergeant Rock especially to high schoolers when you’re within 4-/+ years their age, especially with high-school age girls.

    But then again I very much prefer to the Capt. Winters school of leadership rather than Capt. Sobel.

    Jusuchin (Military Otaku)
    Reply

    3. There is actually some speculation (though not overly serious speculation) that Erika could have been one of the crew Miho saved from drowning in the tank. It would certainly make for an interesting plot thread.

      Moomba
      Reply

      2. Which I honestly think the Nishizumi family had forgotten that. But then again, you look at these sports dynasties of particular teams and whatnot, it’s not far removed from real life.

        I connect with Ooarai, St. Gloriana, and Saunders (from what I can see), who play to win, but still win admirably/have fun.

        Jusuchin (Military Otaku)
        Reply

    5. I do very much like the ‘wishful thinking’ that the presumptive new team might be composed of some of the girls saved by Miho. Not only might it provide a more positive reminder of that incident for Miho (something she could really use), but it would also provide Ooarai with not only an additional crew, but an experienced one – bringing more novices in at this stage would just seem cruel.

      Valens1k
      Reply

    3. You guys keep making me want to start up WoT but I don’t really have time at the moment… at least not enough time knowing how much I’d probably get sucked in to it and end up getting nothing else done…

      Moomba
      Reply

    1. It could be, it could be. But considering Senshado/Tankwondo/Panzerfahren/whatever translation is out there is a Martial Art, she may be a fan if anything, but still not discounting that.

      Well, the only other ‘sport’ I would truly watch is IDPA and Three Gun. Because it involves men and women who turn the firearm into an artform.

      I would say it would be similar except flashier because, hell, tanks. ‘Nuff said.

      Jusuchin (Military Otaku)
      Reply

  19. Also, this episode was full of ‘Priceless’ scenes.

    My princess dreaming about my favorite tank’s main gun: Priceless (-preemptively disposes of C2710 via a mysterious boating accident-)
    Mako’s face when Saori threatens to rat on her: Priceless
    Team Rabbit reminding Saori her luck with men: Priceless
    Mako being a boss with driving just by skimming the manual: Priceless
    Yukari x Miho, the only ship I shall support this season: Priceless

    Jusuchin (Military Otaku)
    Reply

  20. Oh well I posted this on another forum. But if you paid attention to Eps 1, 2 and now 7 when they discovered the tanks they had kanji numbers painted on them before they were repainted and had animals pasted on.

    So far from the kanji numbers written on them we know:
    No. 1 (壱) – Type 89
    No. 2 (弐) – Tiger (P)
    No. 3 (参) – Stug III
    No. 4 (四) – M3 Lee
    No. 5 (五) – B1 Bis
    No. 6 (六) – Panzer IV
    No. 7 (七) – ???
    No. 8 (八) – 38(t)

    We have two new tanks, Tiger(P) and B1 Bis, and two teams hinted at in the OP to fill those (Sodoko and her friends, and the three girls with an aadvark sketched on the background blackboard). But still from the list we can see we are missing No. 7 tank in the roster and maybe a team to fill it.

    Kamui04
    Reply

      1. Ups, I just realized that. I think I had a brain fart while thinking about the Stug III I must have placed it in the No. 3 position even though I checked ep 1,2&7 for the numbering and noted them down. 😛

        Kamui04
        Reply

    3. I dont know what has gone into the heads of the Oorai academy… because from the other academy, all the tanks are fixed to a certain country, such as German, Russian, Italian… but the Oorai has all of them from different countries…

      German,Japan, America and other more countries…

      MyOwnStyle
      Reply

    4. My Antennas tells me, that they will reveal Tank No 7, for a Cliffhanger (if this Anime get a 2nd Season) or the will need it for the Final. If a 2nd Season.. With what they want to fill it? WM Championship to “beat” the British Teacups? 🙂

      So, someone knows how much Episodes we get here? 12? 24? or “Girls und Panzer 2: The Empire Strikes Back!”? 🙂

      Germanguy
      Reply

  24. great! Pz IV gets much needed gun upgrade to L43, and we get not only B-1 but a Tiger in rare prototype version! This should allow Ooarai to retire weakest tanks, type 89 and Pz38t, to the “reserve bench”…
    As for the Miho’s past,I’d say human lives are more valuable than any kind of sports win. Good to see she has heart in the right place!

    ewok40k
    Reply

    1. It is more likely that they will just add more teams, being shorthanded already is a huge hurdle.

      Saunders would easily have won had they chosen to not hold back 4 tanks to be fair.

      Longhaul
      Reply

      1. Hard to say, but I must admit that even the Type 89 has some value even if it’s just presenting an alternative target to the better Oarai tanks. Could also do some recon as we saw against Sanders. Still feel sorry for the Volleyball team getting stuck with it though.

        daikama
        Reply

  25. Late to post again… and now having trouble getting this to post correctly. Guess, I’ll have to divide it :(.

    First, nice “troll” episode. OK, not really a “troll” episode, but I certainly expected a good portion to cover the Anzio battle. Reminds me of Katanagatari EP 04. IMO, EP 07 arguably provides the best example of the shows strong writing. It was the first episode since EP 01 without any tank battles, yet I was never bored. As someone pointed out, skipping the Anzio battle provide some much needed time to provide background & character development.

    Yuikari truly shows some significant growth in EP 07. Remember, prior to joining Senshado/Tankery (I refuse to acknowledge “tankwondo”), she had NO friends. Now, not only is she close friends with the rest of Team A, but also an unofficial member of the History club. I thought her passionately speaking out on Mako’s behalf, and later, once again earnestly supporting Miho and her decision during the last tournament a striking (and refreshing) change from the shy Panzer enthusiast we saw in EP 01.

    EP 07 showcased GundP’s established, often subtle humor:

    – Favorite Line: Anzu commenting that the “at least the B1 Bis was better than the Type 89.” Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I thought it was kind of a “shout-out” by the writers to all “tank-nerd” viewers: “Yeah, we know… the Type 89 sucks.” Certainly it has been a popular topic here.

    – Anzu copying Mako in saying “Fortune comes to those who sleep and wait.” I’m almost certain Mako said essentially the same thing in a previous EP.

    – As others have mentioned, the entire scene where Miho was bombarded with questions was just great with each question getting more and more ridiculous off/tangent.

    – Saori being comforted by the Freshman Team. You could see it coming, but it was still funny.

    – As always, Mako’s scenes were great IMO. The whole sleeping joke was kicked up a notched. Loved the scene where Mako speed reads the Type 89 manual, immediately maneuvers like a top-notch veteran, and then fails to comprehend why the Volleyball team can’t do the same. http://www.imagebam.com/image/860ee5222867527 A true senshado prodigy.

    daikama
    Reply

    1. Forgot to say that as others have mentioned, the writers did a great job continuing the joke of how Oarai’s tanks were stored in some of the most ridiculous places. If there is an 8th tank, I’m expecting it to be found in team member’s room, “hidden” by a bunch of dirty laundry.

      daikama
      Reply

  26. (continuing) Some General/Random Thoughts:

    – \O/ FINALLY we have some upgrades. Is it confirmed that it’s a KwK 40 L/43 barrel? I guess hoping for a KwK 40 L/48 upgrade is asking too much.

    – So Oarai’s “odd” (not meant to be derogatory) teams = “odd” tanks? A Renault B1 Bis (another dual gun tank) and a Tiger(P)? I guess this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster wouldn’t fit aboard ship :P. As Anzu pointed out, at least the B1 Bis is better than the Type 89, but that’s not really the standard one should be using. The Tiger (P) provides a MUCH needed boost in fire power. However, it’s limited by an overly-complex drive train, short operational range, and lack of traversable turret. I suppose a late model Panther, Comet, Tiger I (or II) even a M26 Pershing is asking too much. If forced to go with a turret-less design, I much prefer a Jadgpanther (same AT gun) or Jagdtiger ;).

    – I wonder if I’m hoping in vain that they just ditch the Type 89 altogether and recruit just one more team rather than two. Would love to see the Volleyball team serve up some “spikes” in the Tiger(P).

    – Thank you Erwin for asking about how to increase rate of fire. Now if only you could only get your team’s marksmanship to improve. http://www.imagebam.com/image/05e50c222868197

    – JMO, but I don’t see Guidarian as Yukari’s “soul” name – at least not at this point. Maybe Yuikari later becomes a top senshado commander in her third year. IMO, the Guidarian nickname best fits Miho. She’s innovative & not afraid to go against traditional tactics. She also is able to respond and adapt to unexpected changes in combat situations.

    – Mako maxed out my sympathy level this EP. Bad enough that she lost both her parents at an early age (exacerbated by the fight with her mother right before the accident), but her only remaining family is uber-cranky grandma. No wonder the poor girl is always tired.

    – Someone needs to remind Miho’s mother that, though rare, “great victory” may indeed come without sacrifice. Germany certainly didn’t suffer much from conquering France. An even better example is the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Out of a huge armada, only a couple of midget subs and a few planes lost. Best of all may be Kei’s insightful comment that senshado ultimately is a game, not real war.

    – Yuzuko must have felt like she won the lottery when Hana offered to help. Good for her after dealing with a lazy Anzu.

    – Nice to finally get the full story on Miho’s past unpleasant senshado experience. However, I call foul/shenanigan’s on blaming the entire loss on her. First, it’s not like she ordered the entire crew to rescue the other team. No reason they couldn’t have kept watch for enemy tanks and fired first upon spotting the first Pravda tank. Maybe there wasn’t a round in the chamber >_>. Furthermore, even if Miho was still onboard, it’s not like there was any place for defensive maneuvering. IMO it’s quite possible the same result could have occurred if the lead Pravda tank got off a good first shot. Finally, who’s decision was it to have heavy (weight – not necessarily class) tanks, especially the flag tank, drive single file up a narrow, unpaved road on the side of a hill/mountain during a violent rain storm. Seems to me that as overall commander, Maho needs to step up and accept responsibility for a poor tactical decision.

    – Finally, IMO the Hana + Yuzuko combo is on par with the pure win Darjeeling + Kei combo. I can only dream of an OVA where the four accidently run into each other while visiting a hot springs resort…

    daikama
    Reply

    1. “Is it confirmed that it’s a KwK 40 L/43 barrel?”

      It has one of the early muzzle brakes so it is unlikely to be a L/48.

      The B1 is not exactly an amazing tank but it has much better armor than their current tanks, its side armor is thicker than the front armor of the ones they have used so far.

      Longhaul
      Reply

      1. Thanks for the info on the muzzle brake. I figured it wouldn’t be a L/48. Still, MUCH better than the what they have now at least.

        RE: the B1 Bis armor, that’s true, but your talking about 4mm on the side and 9mm on the front vs. the M3 Lee (plus the M3 Lee had 89mm of mantlet armor). Certainly it is much thicker than the rest of Oarai’s tanks. Even so, IMO, making a comparison against Oarai’s current tanks is insignificant compared to assessing the B1 Bis against what the competition fields. That is what I based my comment upon.

        60mm or not, the B1 Bis simply no match for teams fielding mid to late war tank models. 60mm is not nearly enough protection against high velocity 75mm & 76mm guns let alone 89mm and larger. Plus, while not as bad as the M3 Lee, the B1 Bis has a fairly tall profile due to it’s dual gun design. You can’t even fire the 75mm in a hull down position. Finally, a 47mm AT gun and limited traverse 75mm howitzer are too weak to penetrate 80mm, 100mm or even thicker armor.

        The B1 Bis was arguably a little ahead of it’s time. The problem is that time caught up and passed it. I’d much rather see them find (in no particular order) a T-34 (particularly T-34/85), T-44, 76mm M4 or better yet Firefly, M26, Challenger, Comet, Panther, Tiger I or II, etc. I’d take Panther IV Ausf G or later over a B1 Bis any day.

        daikama
        Reply

      3. Flak 36 88 mm for field multitasking purpose and Flak 37 88 mm main role is for Acht Acht you mentions.

        So far never heard of 89 mm ( wrong typo? ). By far family range of 85 mm Russian, 88 mm German , 90 mm USA and lastly 128 mm German. Powerful and deadly.

        SgtKurtz
        Reply

    2. “The Tiger (P) provides a MUCH needed boost in fire power. However, it’s limited by an overly-complex drive train, short operational range, and lack of traversable turret.”

      Lack of traversable turret? You must be thinking of the Ferdinand aka Elefant tank destroyer, which is based on the same chassis. The Tiger (P) (aka VK4501) is the one with a full turret, the same one used on the Tiger (H).

      SayuriUliana
      Reply

      1. Is it really a Tiger (P) aka Elefant… that’s a tank destroyer though… from the tank that was found shown by the picture above, it is a Tiger I = Panzerkampfwagen V ‘Tiger I’.

        Because we could see that the hatch is located at the right from our view whereas the Tiger (P) so call Elefant locates its hatch on the other side… and it is clearly a rotating turret tank which have the characteristics of a ordinary Tiger I…

        MyOwnStyle
        Reply

      2. “Lack of traversable turret? You must be thinking of the Ferdinand aka Elefant tank destroyer, which is based on the same chassis. The Tiger (P) (aka VK4501) is the one with a full turret, the same one used on the Tiger (H).

        According to Wiki “The official German designation [for the Elefant] was Panzerjäger Tiger(P)” I’m assuming that’s correct. I used Tiger(P) rather than Elefant because that’s what others used and it’s the official designation. The Elefant had 14 degrees left/right traverse.

        daikama
        Reply

  27. I’m not entirely sure if Miho’s mother was condemning her for losing the match by refusing to let her teamates drown, or if she was upset because Miho was giving up aka not “moving forward” to overcome this loss. The latter is a lot less harsh: technically it’s true that running away wasn’t the right solution, although I can’t blame Miho for wanting to get away for a while. However, the comment about needing to make sacrifices sounds a lot more fitting with the former interpretation.

    This may feed into some of my speculations from last week’s episode. Miho seems to have a very poor sense of self-worth. She seems to have a hard time believing that she is capable of doing anything that’s praiseworthy, or that she herself is even a person worth knowing. Every time someone praises her, or seems happy to be around her, it takes her by surprise. I wonder… if her family led her to believe for her entire life that nothing she ever did was good enough…

    Wanderer
    Reply

      1. She only said that in the Commie translations. Don’t trust them for details like that. They’re getting a fair amount of stuff wrong, leading to just this sort of confusion.

        Other translations say “Don’t show us another pathetic battle” saying that another loss would further blemish the name of the Nishizumi family in addition to the blow it took from the loss we saw in this episode.

        Wanderer
        Reply

      3. Lol even in this episode, they got a fair bit of errors.
        For example:
        -Saori has been calling Miho by the nick Miporin and Yukari, Yukarin for the last 4 episodes. Commie’s translators haven’t realized that until now, and just Miporin but not Yukarin.
        -When Mako’s grandma points out that her friends came to visit out of concern for Mako, Commie’s translators seems to have been hiding in their basements for too long and can’t even follow a proper conversation. They translated grandma’s line as: “Then thank me properly!” Wait!? wasn’t she talking about her friends visiting why should Mako thank her grandma for it?, even if you can’t understand japanese, if you follow the conversation you’d guess she meant: “Then thank your friends properly!”.
        -This third mistake might be because Isuzu Hana and hana/ohana (flower in japanese) sound the same. When Hana is helping Yuzu with paperwork. Yuzu looks at the vase and points out that it’s nice to have flowers (ohana). But Commie’s translator thought she referred to: it’s nice to have Isuzu Hana help here.

        And there are lots of comments about their subs, seems like they focus too much on their fun Aryan track and don’t do a proper trans. Even people fluent in german point out that half the time they got the german wrong, FFS!!! And people still support them because the Aryan track with german is fun and Panzerfahren sounds better than Tankwondo or Tankery, but really when you sacrifice a proper translation for those two little details, then I wonder where are the priorities for these people.

        Kamui04
        Reply

      4. Good to know, its a thing that they troll sometimes. But a other thing if they just use some “German” excuses to patch their poor Translations

        I dropped the Homepage Link. Thanks for the Info (they was the fastest so far to get them out)

        Germanguy
        Reply

      5. @Kamui04 – I’ve been struggling trying to decide which group to watch. Commie has is share of error’s for sure, but none of the groups are close to 100% accurate. There seems to be quite a bit of artistic license used by each. I’m torn b/t Horrible and Hiryuu (despite “tankwando”).

        Who do you recommend? Has one group been found to be consistently more accurate than others?

        daikama
        Reply

      6. I still prefer Commie because the way they use sub-added German pronounce were sure fun to learn. I like the idea the way they put in proper communication. Every fansub have their owns way of putting.

        Maybe I try download Horriblesub….

        SgtKurtz
        Reply

      7. @SgtKurtz you know I only have an intermediate level in japanese. So depending on the complexity of japanese in the anime I can watch it raw or or need to watch it subbed. But if I can catch this kind of basic mistakes in commie’s sub, that talks a lot about their translations and QC. And this mistakes aren’t isolated to this single episode, they got them in every episode.

        And now that I was checking the episodes again, Commie’s Ep7 got another error. After their practice Commie translated Saori’s line as first time being so exhausted (sweat/ase o katta/汗をかった) after starting Panzerfahren. But she really says she lost weight (yaseta/痩せた) since starting Senshadou.

        I have watched the three versions and I think both Hiryuu and Horrible (which is a rip from Crunchyroll’s stream) are more bearable. From Horrible the only details I could point my finger at they didn’t know Ankou odori referred to a Goosefish/Anglerfish dance till it was shown. They also wrote Saunders as Sanders but I chalk it up to sounding more logical when it was mentioned and written in japanese before their crest was shown later. On the other hand they don’t have such basic translations mistakes as Commie and even got a few quotes correctly like those of the History Club while washing the Stug III and Darjeeling’s quoting “All is fair in Love and War”.

        Kamui04
        Reply

  28. As translated by Hiryuu’s group, the Nishizumi motto is ‘Forward Ever, Backward Never’. If that is more accurate, than it’s more likely Miho’s personal issue(s), as suggested by Wanderer. Dialogue-wise, it’s supported by ‘[i]t’s our custom to roll forward, no matter what may stand in our way,’ though the proceeding lines paint a different picture. I suppose we won’t know the whole truth until a confrontation occurs.

    It’s definitely dumb that when Miho left the tank, everyone in her tank turned off their brains. Similarly, would the slide into the river knock everyone unconscious? Can a tank hatch be opened from the -outside-? I suppose the river bed was relatively shallow since a tank would certainly sink faster than she could dive. How did Miho’s detachment think the path was a good idea at all? Since Miho was vice-commander, she certainly could have objected to the path or ordered a change when they started going along that path.

    yo
    Reply

      1. Second in command of the team, but not the tank. I believe it might be that she abandoned tank so suddenly they didn’t realize their commander is gone. Or something.

        Which brings to mind that tanks really are an hierarchy, but for her crew to suddenly lack common sense or a sense of chain of command (gunner methinks would be next in line within a tank) seems like a fault of the fact they’re led by a Nishizumi and defer EVERYTHING to her.

        We saw a bit of that this episode but thankfully the crew took care of specific responsibilities. Minus Saori, was very cute when the Team Rabbit reminded her of her dating life.

        Jusuchin (Military Otaku)
        Reply

    1. I thought it was really cool that the way they were using the Type 89 in the Sanders battle basically played to its crew’s strength and tried to minimize the tank’s liabilities. Like in setting up the ambush, they had the 89 be the rabbit to draw them in (and the debris to kick up more dust was a nice touch), while the more powerful tanks were set up to execute the ambush. So even if the Type 89 isn’t able to stand toe-to-toe with any of the other tanks, they can still be effective in the roles they’re assigned.

      Highway
      Reply

  30. I didn’t see that much of an ogre in Miho’s mother. It seems more likely to me, especially based on what Miho said later, that in growing up with such success in “Nishizumi Style”, Miho actually mislearned what the meaning of Nishizumi Style actually was. She thought it was all about the winning, and when she didn’t win, she didn’t know how to handle it, so she gave up. She didn’t learn the additional lesson that her mother and Maho have, which is basically “Don’t give up”, and that’s why there’s the disappointment.

    Being on a team that is only successful as she was growing up, it’s not entirely surprising that she didn’t learn that lesson. Programs like that can tend to really focus only on winning, because people start to consider any non-winning as a backward step. It was only when Miho was surrounded by people for whom winning wasn’t the only thing, and for whom progress is measurable, and enjoyable, that she added this part of the lesson.

    And it’s certainly completely understandable, because she is still a 16-year old. It would be hard to learn that lesson before that anyway.

    Highway
    Reply

    1. You see, I saw it as thus. She’s had a mother and an elder sister who is undefeated. The family origin of the motto differs from the public perception. And besides, I’m not entirely too sure when that talk took place, it could be BEFORE she gave up the sport and her mother was truly berating her poor performance, or it could be AFTER in which she expressed disappointment at her abandoning.

      I’m willing to bet it was before she gave up. I could be wrong, but the mannerisms Erika has towards her in the tank cafe definitely didn’t give me a clue as to when she gave up the sport.

      Jusuchin (Military Otaku)
      Reply

      1. “The talk” from Miho’s mother I took to be after the loss to Pravda, and kind of as she was deciding what to do, and her mother was trying to tell her that additional message: Nishizumi Style doesn’t just mean ‘winning’, it means you keep trying. But in the pain of the loss that was blamed on her, and the history she had had, she couldn’t really see that.

        And let’s be honest, the demeanor of both Maho and their mother doesn’t really lend itself to overt displays of emotional support, even if they feel it (which to me helps put Maho’s offer of the Black Forest helo for transporting Mako in the correct light).

        I also wonder how much of this same meaning of Nishizumi style Erika understands, or if she has the same understanding of it that Miho did before: Just win, and if you don’t, you fail.

        Highway
        Reply

    2. Interesting analysis though I disagree as “Miho actually mislearned what the meaning of Nishizumi Style actually was. She thought it was all about the winning… She didn’t learn the additional lesson that her mother and Maho have, which is basically “Don’t give up””

      I think it’s pretty clear that Nishizumi Style is a “win at all costs” doctrine. Miho’s mother’s statement about victory requiring (not “sometimes requires”) sacrifice strongly infers that. In the EP 02 TV interview, Maho’s attributes her success in senshado to “Never giving up” and “never running away, no matter what.” The word “never” is used twice followed by “no matter what”. A strongly worded statement that is very consistent with a “win at all cost” philosophy IMO.

      Miho may hesitate and understandably have moments of self doubt, but she does not give up. The initial part of the St. Gloriana’s match was a disaster, yet, after some hesitation, Miho responds by regrouping the remaining viable teams and putting a new battle plan into action. Against, Saunders, Miho again doesn’t give up after another poor start. Towards the battle’s end, she tells the Oarai team “not to give up” because to do so is to lose for certain.

      JMO, but I think Miho’s despondency from last year’s final’s match was caused by two factors. One, the experience completely eroded her self-confidence. Miho says in an EP 01 calls herself “unreliable.” We see Miho almost literally freeze up and unable to issue commands during critical moments. Fortunately for Miho, she has comrades who support her during such times, and that support enables her to regain lost confidence and make the right decision. Second (speculative on my part), is that Miho feels some regret for being unable to live up to the very high expectations associated with the Nishizumi name.

      daikama
      Reply

      1. There’s a huge space between “Never Give Up” and “Win at all costs”. There’s room in “Never give up” for losing, and it’s going to happen sometimes. The difference is in teaching that you keep going after a loss, which is what Miho was failing to do.

        I’ve been thinking that the overarching point of the entire show is “Friendship and Support”, although it hasn’t really talked about it, just shown it in many different ways. And in her situation now at Oarai, Miho gets the support and friendship that she didn’t feel that she got before, and in turn is able to support her new friends when they need it.

        Highway
        Reply

      2. The interesting thing is that you’re all focusing in the “advance at all cost” part of her mother’s reprimand. But you forgot the later part where Miho tries to interject and Shiho says and emphasizes that you can’t attain victory without sacrifices. That conversation wasn’t about Miho giving up on Senshadou, but on how she chose to rescue the tank crew instead of sacrificing them as pawns and focusing on winning, which to them was the reason for their loss. All that lead to her leaving her Family and going to Oarai as the focus of the flashback when Saori talked about Mako’s family situation.

        Kamui04
        Reply

      3. @Highway: I am well aware of difference in underlying philosophy between the two, and I agree entirely that there is a marked difference between the two – “win at all cost” is a much more extreme view of “never give up”, particularly one which allows “room for losing”.

        To be clear, I’m using “win at all cost” in a general sense, not absolute. I certainly don’t think Miho’s mom would advocate running over a bunch of bystanders who accidentally stepped onto the battle field with a Tiger tank just to get a better shot at the enemy. At least I hope that’s the case. Regardless, I am in no way advocating or condoning such a viewpoint.

        If you watch the flashback scene between Miho and her mother, while “never giving up” is certainly part of the Nishizumi Style, the “Style” goes far beyond that. When Miho (notice that she’s wearing the Black Forest uniform) starts to object, in the scene’s last dialog, her mother replies “Great victories cannot be gained without sacrifice”[Hiryuu] or “No great victory comes without sacrifice.”[Commie]. We then see Maho, who remains silent (i.e. makes no objection on Miho’s behalf), and the scene closes with Miho’s surprised expression.

        To say “great victory” MANDATES “sacrifice” (reference to the drowning tank crew IMO) is much closer to a “win at all costs” doctrine than simply “never giving up”. There’ no reason for that line to be said with just a “never give up” philosophy. Nor does it make sense for such the harsh lecture in the first place if “There’s room in “Never give up” for losing…” Well, not unless one considers leaving the tank to save others “giving up.”

        I think we will just have to “agree to disagree” regarding the Nishizumi Style and Miho “giving up.” I do agree that like many anime shows, there is a strong theme of “Friendship and Support” to which I would add underlying themes of “fair play” and “games/matches are supposed fun and not taken too seriously.”

        daikama
        Reply

      4. @Highway. Well, sporting history has always shown teams that started with ‘never give up’ philosophy, once strung successes together, turning into a ‘don’t loose’ ideology. And once success is repetitive and expected, it finally morphed into ‘win at all cost’.

        john
        Reply

      5. For me, I believe Shiho will also scold Miho if she didn’t save her friends…
        You see, when Miho try to say ‘she saved her friends’, it become an excuse for losing and nullifying the selfless spirit in her heroic act…
        I think Shiho wish to teach Miho that as a leader, she must willing to take blame of a failure, then become a stronger better person that can save her friends yet still manage to obtain victory…

        Problem would be, most of this way of thinking come from personal experience instead of direct hint from show…
        The only hint I get from show about this is the term ‘honor’ that seems to be embed to Nishizumi-way, which I interpret as ‘honor isn’t about victory but there is no honor in losing’…
        Especially as their enemy was Pravda that infamous for using vulgar act, or to say ‘an honorless act’…

        Ante
        Reply

      6. John, that’s exactly what I was trying to refer to, that the basic philosophy of Nishizumi Style particularly at Black Forest Peak had been morphed through years of continued and expected success from a more broad based “Never give up, don’t stop trying to do your best” to a “Never lose no matter what” understanding.

        I also find it *very* hard to accept that Miho’s mother was referencing ‘sacrifice’ in regards to the *lives* of her teammates. It’s been said repeatedly that it’s Sensha-do, not war. And I can’t believe that a style / philosophy that was so ruthless would be widely accepted. And Maho’s actions in offering the Black Forest helo to Mako for the trip to see her grandmother would seem to belie that it’s that ruthless in truth.

        Instead, I think that the ‘sacrifice’ referred to by Miho’s mother is meaning her personal feelings after the match, her comfort in school as the object of blame for the loss, the sacrifice of not having many friends due to that. Moving forward would require that those things matter less, and that they be worked through. Instead, Miho chose to run away, and give up Sensha-do, an entirely backwards move, even if the reality ended up that she was able to move forward on another path that is much happier for her and all involved.

        Even the conversation between Erika and the Ankou team in the tank cafe seems more in line with this, as Erika refers to Miho giving up, and Yukari defends Miho’s actions in the match, but Erika responds that it’s not her business or that she doesn’t know the subject. This could certainly mean that they’re not talking about the match itself, but the after-actions of Miho quitting.

        Highway
        Reply

  31. I knew I heard Miho’s mom from elsewhere! At the back of my head, I kept hearing Urd-chan talking and it came true! Now all this show needs is some Inoue Kikuko loving 🙂

    BTW isnt Tiger P a prototype. If so, then would it be fair if St Gloriana brings out a prototype Centurion to the mix?

    john
    Reply

    2. Speaking only for myself, I use the term “Tiger(P) to mean the Panzerjäger Tiger(P) aka the Ferdinand & Elefant.

      FYI – After Germany decided to go with Henschel’s Tiger design rather than Porsche’s more complicated design which was marred by a over-complicated, unreliable, poor performing and fuel hungry hybrid gasoline-electric hybrid drive train. Rather than trash the roughly 100 already assembled Porsche designed chassis, the new 88mm Pak 43/2 L/71 gun was mounted on top of almost all of them to create the Ferdinand tank destroyer, officially known as the Panzerjäger Tiger(P). After the Battle of Kursk, all surviving Ferdinands (rouhgly 50) were upgraded to the Elefant model.

      daikama
      Reply

  32. From my knowledge, it is not a Tiger P… It is an ordinary Tiger tank, the same that Miho used… Probably in the episodes to come, Miho and her crew would probably use the Tiger tank in their battle with Miho’s sister a Tiger vs Tiger battle…

    To be logically, It is very hard though for a panzer IV to defeat a well armored Tiger especially when the Panzer IV is equiped with the short low velocity 75 mm canon… So probably, Miho and her team will probably change tanks…

    MyOwnStyle
    Reply

    2. I thought it was a Tiger I until I read all the posts here. It’s hard to tell, but Moomba and others said it was a Tiger(P). There is a lot of knowledgeable people writing comments not to mention “spoilers” available in Japanese so I figured I was wrong. Given Oarai’s tendency to find “odd’ tanks/TD’s, I suspect confirmation next episode that it’s an Elefant.

      From the ED, I think it’s pretty clear that Miho stays in the Panther IV. Plus, getting the same tank in which she had such a bad prior experience might be psychologically tough. I stand by my recommendation that the Volleyball team gets the Tiger(P)/Elephant/whatever. Did you notice that the VB team hit the bulls-eye during target practice? 😉

      daikama
      Reply

      2. I think it was on here, my blog, or WoT forum, but the Tiger P might end up replacing the Panzer IV when it gets wrecked in the match against Pravda. We saw how Pravda (seemingly) treats the enemy team.

        Poor Polish tankette, already white flagged and the JS still fired at it, necessitating a crew-held white flag to deployed alongside the automatic one.

        Jusuchin (Military Otaku)
        Reply

      3. @Germanguy: Remember the three unknown characters in front of the chalkboard in the OP (http://www.imagebam.com/image/bf885c223012923)? My bet is on them.

        @Jusuchin “The Tiger P might end up replacing the Panzer IV when it gets wrecked in the match against Pravda.” Oh dear God no! I LIKE the upgraded Panzer IV. That’s the best tank they have after the Tiger(P)/Elefant/whatever. How can it get destroyed yet the Type 89 live on!? I’m cutting off Pravda from Lend Lease effective immediately.

        One other thought, if the Panther IV is wrecked, then how does Oarai end up with 8 (as speculated) let alone 7 tanks? Is there TWO more tanks to be found or is it repaired?

        daikama
        Reply

      4. I tried to get a better look at the silhouette of the tank and I don’t think it’s a Elefant. The images I could find online show the Elefant as having sloped armor on top. The image here (as best I can make out) has a vertically sided turret. That should make it a Tiger I. Tiger II and the Panther also had sloped turret sides AFAIK. Can anyone make it out any better?

        On another note, one of the themes of the show seems to be about finding/making your own family. We’ve got Hana who has been disowned by her mom for taking up Panzerfahren, Miho who has not lived up to the family’s expectations, Mako who has lost much of hers, and Yukari who hasn’t had any friends because of her love of tanks. Saori is the only one who doesn’t quite fit but then she hasn’t had much luck with boys….

        bear
        Reply

      5. Agree with Bear. It’s hard to tell either Tiger 1 (early production), Tiger (P – Prototype) or any variants of Tiger. I don’t agree with the Tiger II (maybe) because Tiger II @ King Tiger or Royal Tiger has sloped turret (Same as Panther).

        Hoping on next episode reveal the mystery hidden Tiger.

        SgtKurtz
        Reply

      6. I still can’t tell for sure – I’m leaving it up to the WoT viewers until next EP :D. Not entirely sure about the rules, but I thought only tanks in production (i.e. no prototypes) before 8/14/45 were allowed in senshado.

        So Tiger(P) = Porsche or Prototype(?) Tiger? Since that tank never made it to production, and the official German designation for the Ferdinand was Panzerjäger Tiger(P), I always thought Tiger(P) = Ferdinand/Elefant with the “P” standing for Porsche based chassis. It’s kind of confusing with all the different comments.

        daikama
        Reply

      9. OK – last post to correct some mistakes I made:

        (1) Resolved “Tiger(P)” designation = Porsche Tiger. My mistake for not writing Panzerjäger Tiger(P) or Elefant when I meant that.

        (2) Now 100% agree with Bear and Sgt.Kurtz (good job!) that its some form of Tiger I after viewing the scene…again. Gun mantlet matches the Tiger I, not Ferdinand/Elephant’s. Staying well away from whether it’s a Tiger(P) or standard production Tiger (and if so what version) as I have no idea.

        (3) One site I found says that a total of 5 Tiger(P)s were completed with two entered into service while Wiki says only one entered into service. I guess that’s sufficient for Tiger(P)s to be allowed in senshado.

        (4) Happy that seems to be Tiger rather than a Ferdinand/Elefant. Less happy that it could be a Porsche Tiger, but wouldn’t be surprised if it was given Oarai’s rather unique tank collection.

        (5) Regret that one can’t edit/correct previous comments in these situations. Also, wish Horrible subs were 1st to release rather than Commie, but w/e.

        Thanks to Moomba for covering the series, and thanks to all for a great post EP discussion as usual. Looking forward to next Tues.

        daikama
        Reply

      10. Em…
        Tiger(P) isn’t Ferdinant/Elefant…
        Sure the chassis is later used to make Ferdinant/Elefant, but as Tiger(P) it has the same rotatable turret as Tiger I…

        All in all, if the engine has no problem or whatsoever, Tiger(P) is an equal match to Tiger I

        Ante
        Reply

      11. @Ante – Yes, I fully understand that the Tiger(P) is NOT, repeat NOT, the same as the Panzerjäger Tiger(P) Ferdinand/Elefant.

        Again, I watched the show, thought it was a Tiger (Ausf E), then read the review and clicked on the “Tiger(P)” link which took me to the Panzerjäger Tiger(P)/Elefant Wiki page. When I saw that I figured I was wrong and assumed it was a Ferdinand/Elefant and that “Tiger(P” was just shorthand for Panzerjäger Tiger(P). After reading additional comments and more research, I realized my error as posted as such.

        “All in all, if the engine has no problem or whatsoever, Tiger(P) is an equal match to Tiger I”. No, not really.

        First, that’s a BIG IF. The Tiger I already had enough issues with engine reliability as the engine constantly strained to keep up with the massive weight, but Porsche’s overly complicated, and frankly unnecessary, hybrid gasoline-electric was even less reliable.

        Second, due to it’s engine, it was slower and had less range – and it’s not like the Tiger I was known for it’s speed and long range.

        Third, there was more difference than just the drive train – though that’s quite a vital component.

        “[The] Tiger(P) had its turret mounted forward, what also made the operating in enclosed areas dangerous. In July of 1942, both prototypes were put to the extensive tests at the tank school in Berka, Germany. During the tests, Porsche’s VK 4501(P) was a failure, while Henschel’s VK 4501(H) was a great success. Main failure of Porsche’s design laid in its advanced power and drive system, which was prone to breakdowns and required continuous maintenance. Also Tiger(P) was longer than its competitor, what made it less maneuverable.” (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-vi-tiger-p-vk4501p-porsche-typ-101.htm)

        Fourth, if you look at the stats, the Tiger (P) even carried less ammo for the KwK 36 L/56 88mm gun. 64-80 rounds vs 92 rounds for the Tiger Ausf E. (same source as above).

        Compared to the Tiger (I) Ausf. E, the Tiger(P) = Fail. There’s nothing truly advantageous about while the drive train and design are quite disadvantageous. German High Command figured that out pretty fast.

        It’s NOT a bad tank by any means. In Anzu’s words “It’ better than the Type 89” by a long shot. It’s certainly better than the rest of Oarai’s except maybe the upgraded Panzer IV depending upon the situation. Still, it’s not as good as the Tiger Ausf E and Oarai needs all the help it can get in the hardware department. The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced it will turn out to be a Tiger(P) given the writers preference to give Oarai fairly unusual tanks.

        daikama
        Reply

      12. Yup, I notice something was wrong there… Because I’m a Tiger Tank Fan though…
        I think somebody really needs to re-edit wikipedia about this Tiger tank stuff.. even the variants are too many…

        Tiger(P), Tiger Ausf E, Ausf ~ something2… The german way of giving versions to their tanks are just too complex… we need someone to re-edit wiki about this matter…

        MyOwnStyle
        Reply

  34. It seems like the writers of the show weren’t consistent with the tank teams makeup. All others teams had tanks based on the nationality of origin. However except for Oarai’s team, the so-called American Saunders team had the Firefly which the Yanks DID NOT HAVE in the war. It should have been in St Gloriana’s inventory instead. Very strange, indeed.

    john
    Reply

  35. Can’t stay away I guess XD.

    There WERE some (though relatively few) US Firefly’s See http://freespace.virgin.net/shermanic.firefly/usnew.html

    I think the main reason Saunder’s had the Firefly rather than St. Gloriana’s is that the Firefly is a modified US Tank rather than a British design. The only significant difference is the gun. Think of it this way, the P51B Mustang and later models used the excellent British Rolls-Royce “Merlin” engine in lieu of the non turbo or supercharged Allison engine (WHY the US never supercharged it is beyond me), but it’s always considered a US plane.

    daikama
    Reply

    1. So there were some American Fireflies. Interesting, especially considering how the Americans rejected Hobart’s funnies which probably cost the Americans at Omaha beach many more casualties due to a lack of tank support.

      Even though the B model of the Mustang is always associated with America, the Mustang I was specified and bought by the British, which confuses the situation. Even more so since they were not called P-51’s but had NA-73 and 83 designations though they were Mustangs. (Seems like the Brits liked names and Americans insisted on numerical designations.) So you had an aircraft specified and bought by the Brits, produced by the Americans, then bought by the Americans, and re-engined using a British engine design that was licensed to an American firm. Of course the vast majority were American flown, but the Mustang certainly had a complicated birth.

      bear
      Reply

      1. Bear, unless you’re including DD Tanks (Duplex Drive), the Hobart’s “Funnies” wouldn’t have made a difference. The D-Day invasion plan DID in fact have tank support – LST would launch DD Tanks ahead of the first infantry wave. The tanks were supposed to reach shore first and provide fire support for the landing infantry. Sounds great, but in reality it was a disaster.

        The channel was simply too rough for the DD Tanks – the vast majority of them swamped & sank. Testing prior to the invasion was done in calmer waters. In the water the tanks were so slow that LCVPs (Higgins boats) passed them by. The Germans had artillery and mortar all set with pre-sighted firing instructions to cover the entire beach. The 88mm guns just wreaked havoc with everything on or near the beach – from infantry to tanks to landing craft. The few (literally) tanks did reach shore (whether by LST or later LCT) were decimated by 88mm fire. Very few tanks survived the early morning assault. Even when the tanks got off a shot, the 75mm HE rounds had no effect on pillboxes, some of which survived direct hits from 16″ 2000lb naval shells, unless they managed to get a lucky shot into the gun port.

        Certainly it wouldn’t have hurt to have more tank support, but a much longer naval shore bombardment carrying on into dawn would have made the biggest difference. What ultimately saved the Omaha invasion was that around 9:30am, destroyer captains finally decided enough was enough, and started firing again at shore targets. At 9:50am the order was given for all destroyers to fire, and they unloaded everything they had. Some destroyers fired over 1000 5″ shells. “There is no question in my mind that the few Navy destroyers that we had there saved the invasion” (Lt. Joe Smith, Navy Beachmaster at Omaha). Upon landing at Omaha beach late that day, the first message Maj. Gen. Gerow sent to Gen. Omar Bradley was “Thank God for the United States Navy!”

        daikama
        Reply

  36. LOL, I finally got to watch then episode! Too bad they didn’t show how they made short work of their next opponent. I guess the next action is saved for the new units they got this episode.

    The Moondoggie
    Reply

  37. Argghh only 10 comments behind SAO!!!! Lost of hubub on the forums about this episode. Most of it having to deal with what Miho’s mom said and who was ultimately responsible for the defeat last year. Lots of intesting stuff in the WoT forums too. Lots of great skins being made as well as several leaked screens from episode 8.

    Roguespirit
    Reply

  38. for those wondering if the B1 Bis will be any good, I present the tale of the French tank ace, Pierre Billotte

    Billotte is known for his extraordinary actions on 16 May 1940 during the battle at the French village of Stonne. Billotte served in the 1st Compagnie of the 41st Tank Battalion, equipped with the Char B1 heavy tank. Captain Billotte was instrumental in capturing the village of Stonne, defended by elements of the German 8th Panzer Regiment. On 16 May, while under heavy fire from German tanks, Billotte and his B1 Bis managed to break through the German defenses and to destroy two German PzKpfw IV tanks, eleven PzKpfw III tanks and two enemy guns. Billotte’s Char B1-Bis tank received 140 hits from enemy tanks and guns, but none were able to penetrate the tank’s heavy armour.

    ScrewySqrl
    Reply

    1. Yeah that’s pretty amazing, especially considering the most of the other stories we hear of that nature involve the Tiger tanks. I know that in WoT the only thing I really liked about the B1 was the armor, I loved that and even though I didn’t really like the tank it will hold a special place in my heart as the first tank in which I got Top Gun and we pulled off a lopsided victory. For that I will never call the B1 a terrible tank. I’ve driven worse.(in the game)

      Roguespirit
      Reply

  39. I just realized that the only other show in which there was so much dark speculation–I’m talking about a lot of the assumptions that have been made of Miho’s past and the reasons she lost the match last year against Pravda–there has been both here and on the forums(or at least the one that comes to my mind)was Another That’s kinda scary.

    Roguespirit
    Reply

    1. You might be right, but Fate Zero set the bar for me in terms of “dark.” As much as I like FSN & Fate Zero, it’s hard to watch the the scene with Kariya and Aoi after Kirei set up Kariya to take the fall for Tokiomi’s murder. Fate Zero’s pretty dark as it is, but that scene just cranked it up to a whole new level. Poor Kariya suffered enough as it was already.

      daikama
      Reply

  40. During the war us army has its own vehicle repair point called “vehicle collection point” and it is easy to repair the damaged tank but its very hard to replace the experienced crew. ssgt.Walding A. Ford 2ndARMORED Divison,E company,743rd Tank battalion M1 Abrams “KONIGSTIGER”.

    ssgt.Walding A. FORD
    Reply

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