「しのぶタイム其ノ貳」 (Shinobu Taimu So no Ni)
“Shinobu Time Part Two”
Pushing forward with last week’s momentum, the second episode of Shinobu’s arc doesn’t disappoint at all. With the story slowing down a bit, we got a very in-depth look into just what kind of person Shinbou was back when she was Kiss-Shot Acerola-Orion Heart-Under-Blade. And even though you could categorize this episode as one of those “dialogue” heavy ones with very minimal action, the way that SHAFT decided to handle the issue of delivering a lot of information in a short amount of time while still keeping things fresh has really changed my opinion of just how good a flashback episode can be.
So before I get into anything, let me just say that even though this episode was basically a huge rolling static image accompanied with some great music, I enjoyed it just as much (if not a wee bit more) as a regular episode. While I can’t exactly pinpoint what it was that made this episode such a great success, I’m sure it had something to do with how SHAFT delivered the story. From revealing where Araragi’s gigantic-ass sword comes from to briefly explaining how important it is for an apparition to have someone who believes in their existence, we learned a lot of things this week. And instead of burdening our eyes to keep up with action-scenes, I thought it was brilliant how we got all the benefits of beautiful images that provided just enough to really help you get into the groove of things while Shinobu quietly narrated the story from the side.
And you know what the greatest part of all of that was? We still have almost no idea what that dark and ominous thing that attacked Araragi was! Besides it being a gathering of energy that accumulated many, many years ago due to Shinbou staying around too long in Japan and in turn almost devoured her, there isn’t much else to go off of. While I think it’d be a bit of a stretch to say it may have something to do with her original minion or original “The Apparition killer”, I really have no idea what it could be! Maybe when Hachikuji wakes up she’ll deliver the answer c:
This episode was one of the most dialogue heavy ones to date. I actually fell asleep watching it (though its mostly in part to me watching this episode late at night and when I was already a little tired). Still, when I got round to watching it a second time (fully awake this time), it was definitely interesting to hear about Shinobu’s background. Though like Koyomi, I somehow get the feeling that Shinobu did not reveal everything there is yet.
Is it just me?
My interest in Monogatari has deflated to near-zero, now that Senjogahara has effectively left the picture almost entirely. Frankly, I’m fed up with Araragi, I’m fed up with Shinobu, I’m fed up with Hanekawa and all the other secondary characters.
It’s not that I’m not interested in the secondary characters at all, but I’d like to see it balanced out somehow. And when the character who in my book has been _defining_ the first season doesn’t even appear anymore, something is wrong.
Not happy here, sorry.
Well, she is not a main character – she’s just as secondary character as Nadeko or Kanbaru is.
You mean Senjogahara? Not in my book – she played important roles in almost every arc of S1, and it was her sharp wit and brains that carried the show from my point of view. All of this is pretty much gone.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that all the recent Shinobu-centric arcs are necessarily bad. They simply don’t match my taste as much. It feels like an entirely different show, one with much less appeal to me. Not the Bakemonogatari I came to love.
Well, I agree with you in that I wouldn’t put Senjouhara quite on the same “level” as Nodeko or Kanbaru, but I also think you can’t justifiably put her ahead of Hanekawa either. Don’t want to say more since it’s spoiler material, but if you’ve only watched the anime, there’s more to Hanekawa’s involvement in the overall story than you probably realize. Frankly, I don’t think of the girl’s in terms of “main or supporting” character terms.
If nothing else, I suggest at minimum you check back in a couple of episodes or so. It would kind of suck if you’re a big Senjougahara fan to end up missing her own arc because you gave up on the show a couple of episodes early. As I posted, I’m not 100% sure if this is the case, but Hitagi End seems like it would be perfect as the show’s final arc for this cour.
Forgot to put @Mentar in my above reply.
I believe you’ve only watched the anime? If you read the Light Novel which is the source material, you’ll realize that Senjougahara is just a secondary character as well as she wasn’t even there at the beginning of the novel.
But I agree, Senjougahara is the best will always be the best tsundere-borderline yandere for me.
I always saw it as Bakemonogatari being about Hitagi, and Nisemonogatari being about Shinobu, the two most important people he’s devoted himself too. On top of that you have Hanekawa who’s… I’m sure there’s a proper term for this, but she’s in some ways like an instigator of the stories, and Nadeko who Kanbaru described in Nise as the ‘last boss.’
Although I thought the main point about Bakemonogatari wasn’t Hitagi herself, but Koyomi’s change from being someone who didn’t value his life to the point that he was happy to die for someone else’s sake, to actually realizing that he has worth (which Black Hanekawa begrudgingly forced out of him at the end).
Probably not just you, but personally, I’m enjoying this as much as any other episode in this series :p. Well, there’s only one more arc after this (for this season), and it will focus on your favourite character. So why not bear with it for a few more episodes? :p
Secondary characters? lol almost all the cast is a “secondary character” (or you could also say they are all main characters) remember that not all the novels are from Araragi’s viewpoint… also remember that even tho bakemonogatari migth be the first published novel… it is not actually the first in the time-line… the first one on the time-line is Kizumonogatari (that revolves about Shinobu and Araragi’s meeting) .. one we havent seen yet (i heard there were talks of a movie thou? it was a while ago).
But yeah we havent seen Senjougahara (lol dunno why they changed her personality for the anime series tho) .. or Kanbaru for that matter.. lol ill like to see more of the monkey girl.
PS: lol was thinking back on the novels.. and Shinobu appeared in every single one of them.. even on Nekomonogatari (where Aragari only appeared for a few mins).
PS2: mm … are we gonna get an adaptation of Hanamonogatari (Kanbaru) ? or Koimonogatari (Senjougahara) ? both? do we have enough episodes left for both?
PS3: i guess the other 3 novels would be either OVA or season 3? lol
I’m fed up with Araragi, I’m fed up with Shinobu, I’m fed up with Hanekawa and all the other secondary characters.
Assuming you are referring to Senjougahara (not sure why you don’t just expressly say so), but while the other characters might be considered “secondary”, Hanekawa is on the same level as Senjougahra in terms of status. While not definitive, MAL has both of them listed as “main characters” along with Araragi. BTW, I prefer Senjougahara over Hanekewa so I’m not posting this out of character bias.
Really, if there is one main character – it’s Araragi. Everything revolves around him, so if you’re” “fed up with Araragi” as well, then you’re going to have issues with the show just like you would if you felt that way about the main character any anime/tv show/movie/novel/etc.
If your mostly (entirely?)a Senjougahara fan, I can see how this season might be frustrating, but keep in mind these are all girl specific arcs (though Shinobu does get some extra screen time vs. some others). There’s a Hitagi arc as well, and I expect that to be the last one for the season since I can’t imagine this arc taking six more episodes to complete.
Ah another one of these kinds of viewers. It’s too bad that you lost interest in the Monogatari series after Hitagi went out of the picture Mentar. Though, rest assured, you’re not the only one.
In fact, I often think that the majority (or vocal minority) of the fanbase of this show had no interest of the story or Araragi’s development. They are only interested in their “waifu”. I frequented a lot of forums, and most of this show’s fanbase are like this. What with all the name-calling of other female characters, calling the show boring when it didn’t concern their favorite character, to infantile shipping wars.
Too bad, the other part of the fanbase are really nice discussion partners.
“In fact, I often think that the majority (or vocal minority) of the fanbase of this show had no interest of the story or Araragi’s development. They are only interested in their “waifu”.”
It’s kind of-sort of understandable considering Bake (and even Nise) was the most “harem-esque” as far as the franchise’s style goes, but I always had this feeling that the franchise is a story that happens to be harem-ish rather than just being a flat-out traditional harem, mostly because the haremettes, and their relationship with Koyomi (and Koyomi himself as well of course) had much more emphasis on characterisation than a run-to-the-mill harem would bother to do. What S2 seems to do is “just” continuing the job by giving the rest of the cast their share of spotlight (to the point they’re the main characters of their own arcs, with narration and everything), and of course, this approach only pays off well if one is interested in most of the characters enough to learn about them and seeing other characters in a different light in the process as well, rather than just being interested in only one or two and not giving shit about the rest, or the story as a whole. Which *kind of* requiers to not view the franchise as a standard harem where there’s nothing to go for besides the “choose a waifu and embrace every single appearence of hers” process.
My impression is that most commenters here think Monogatari is a harem story when really the closest it gets to harem is as a joke. It’s a harem in joke only, with the ‘members’ teasing but not really being motivated by want for romance (attention, affection, kindness, yes); only 3 of the girls are directly motivated by wanting love and one of them is so much younger the MC can’t even recognize when she’s trying to appear sexy to him!
At it’s bones, this is a romantic triangle story, as far as how many characters really matter in that regard.
Fanboys who latch onto a girl or onto the fake harem traits absloutely will be disappointed because the story is actually sharper, more intelligent and more complicated than what harem fans expect; add to that the fact that Araragi is not just a fanboy substitute and that his own individual story is playing out through each of these girl story arcs… Well, I’ve gotten used to the complaints I’ve been reading here.
There a plenty of legit harem stories featuring cute/sexy/attractive girls fighting over a tree stump. If this were one of them, I wouldn’t be watching it or reading the LNs. I’m so glad SHAFT isn’t wasting their creativity or courage on a mere harem! There’s nothing wrong with harem stories but they’re like fast food anime and Monogatari is definitely home cooked.
It’s the same for me but I think this might be our fault,maybe?I believe a lot of us have seen Bakemonogatari in a different way and have been expecting similar things from the rest of the Monogatari shows.Most of that pretty much revolves around Senjougahara Hitagi.For instance,while I never doubted that there was one established MC in Araragi,I expected Hitagi to be a step above everyone else and be present in almost every arc in some way or another.Granted,she still had a fair amount of screentime in Nisemonogatari but her absence is really felt here…
I’m also feeling Oshino absence but let’s not go there as that would just be nitpicking 😛
I’m still enjoying the show and think it’s pretty good but I’m not expecting too much out of it anymore.In fact,lowering expectations might be for best for viewers like us and maybe look at the Monogatari series(or at least at this season) as just a good harem with a heavy dose of supernatural elements.
It’s funny, because while I completely adore her, I always considered HItagi as an intruder in the story, based on Bakemonogatari itself.
Note, I’m writing this in a bit of a ‘devil’s advocate’ point of view.
Bakemonogatari starts off with the explosive Kizu summary, which is about Koyomi, Shinobu, and Hanekawa. That set the stage for me. The first episode starts off with Hanekawa & Koyomi talking, and Hitagi comes up. Hanekawa notices this is out of place, and whatever, the story continues. It isn’t until episode 5 that Koyomi accepts Hitagi as his girlfriend. Throughout and at the end of Bakemonogatari, you see how Hanekawa feels sidelined for Hitagi’s sake, ending with the Black Hanekawa climax. And then holy shit Shinobu explodes onto the scene and ends up living in his shadow. Aside from that, there have been numerous references to stuff like, “why did you pick Senjougahara?” (the obvious answer is, she’s lucky & awesome)
So Hitagi’s definitely an important part of the story, but I see her as a disruptive force. She showed up in the story because she slipped on a banana. To me,
Koyomi + Shinobu: Well duh, but vampirism. Dude has a goddess living in his shadow.
Koyomi + Hanekawa: This is the most natural combo
Koyomi + Senjougahara: It’s happening, and there’s no reason to deny it
Koyomi + Nadeko: DANGER
Although I really like how he gets along with Hachikuji the best.
This is just a speculation, but I’d say the ratio of thumbs up to thumbs down is basically the ratio of Senjougahara fans to the fans every other girl in the Monogatari Universe put together. From that rationalisation, rather than simply down voting because I think this comment is stupid, I’m doing it to affirm that Senjougahara is not mai waifu.
On a side note, Hanekawa is my favourite :3
even in this site, I think a lot of the downvotes/upvotes depend on how the commenter comments about a particular girl. If one of the girl is our favorite, we will downvote anything that went as far as suggest that there’s a person who prefer Araragi end up with somebody else.
On the contrary, we will upvote anything that praise the girl, no matter how biased or how mundane that is. it’s a protective/sympathy vote, I think. Though as I said. it was just natural with the fanbase, any harem fanbase (though as mentioned above, Bake is not much of a fast food harem).
Damn that season is great…
Really interesting episode.. lol Shinobu is on a totaly diferent scale (“jumped and landed on Japan “.. like wth??!!)
lol and i thought we were gonna find out what the “darkness” was.. i got trolled!
I can listen to Shinobu talk all day.
For everybody else this episode must have been a bit of a snooze fest I admit.
great and lovely episode!
the way things rolled between Shinbou’s past-story and the present with great music and unique change in animation (in terms of monogatari)is what really made that episode unique one.
it was funny how we got a lot more info, yet we don’t enough about the darkness – why is it striking again?why now? shinobu gave us info, most of it was more story of what happend not how, so for now we can only guess what is behind the power that drive the “darkness”.
I wonder when Hachkuji gonna wake up.
Araragi didn’t even try once to pick up her skirt (or do other pervert things)…weird. is he seriously afraid from shinobu or the darkness? 😛
.. or the “vampire punch” ? haha i think is the punch!
Overall, I liked the episode, but personally I thought Kiss-shot/Shinobu got a bit over-powered up. She jumps from the arctic (or antarctic – can’t remember which one) to Japan and in the process almost destroys the arctic/antarctic? O.o. Made me think of the Incredible Hulk rather than a vampire… Not a big deal, but still a bit too over-the-top for my taste.
I also really liked the way the characters and backgrounds were illustrated along with the music. They gave a very Edo Period feeling to the story. I also liked the contrast with what was presented about Kiss-shot/Shinobu – here’s this fantastically powerful creature, yet it all comes down to her simply being lonely. Quite an interesting contrast IMO. It really ties in well with why she’s become so attached to Araragi, and how different his attitude and actions towards her are/were from her first “servant”.
Probably too unrealistic given the circumstances surrounding his “revival”, but I can’t help but wonder what path Kiss-shot/Shinobu’s fate would have taken if he had been as understanding as Araragi. Of course, Araragi does have one significant advantage over servant #1 -> Mr. Donut ;).
The combination of the visual design, music and Kiss-shot/Shinobu’s essentially sad tale were enough to capture my attention for the entire episode even with all the dialogue. SHAFT continues to do a fantastic job with this series. Eagerly anticipating next EP as I’m very curious to see what that “darkness” really is given how easily it destroyed someone/thing as powerful as Kiss-shot/Shinobu turned out to be.
She’s just bragging. Assuming her mass is about equivalent to the mass of an average woman, to jump 12000 km she would need energy equivalent to about one ton of TNT. With all due respect, even full-powered she’s way too small to play ICBM 😉
Sorry, but not even the best anime can bounce back from incestuous tooth brush rape. Why people watch this fanservice laden nightmare parading around as some philosophical series, I’ll never know. But bullshit like this just continues to frustrate me because I’ve seen what anime is capable of, and honestly, if I have to sit through one more moe breast grap/up skirt I’m going to harm myself.
You can, well, not watch it? There are ton of other series out there. You are acting like this series effectively kill everything else and there’s nothing for you to watch bro. You can’t see what lies beyond the fan-service doesn’t mean there is nothing beyond there. Others can see it, so deal with it or leave it.
From what you said, seems like you are supposed to stop caring about this way back in ep 8 of Nisemonogatari, why you are still here, i’ll never know.
really..if you dont like it then dont watch it .. gee so simple!
…wow. That scene was HOW long ago?
First, it was “consensual brushing” which invalidates the term you use describe that scene.
Second, if you consider this show a “fanservice laden nightmare”, then you must hate a lot of anime.
Third, perhaps you might enlighten us “ignorant masses” as to a few quintessential examples of “what anime is capable of”.
Fourth, “…if I have to sit through one more moe breast grap/up skirt I’m going to harm myself.”
O.o… You must be a serious “M type” if you hate the show this much, and yet have watched 15 episodes this season (assuming you didn’t watch the recaps) + however many since the “infamous” tooth-brushing scene.
Fifth, what Takurannyan said.
Then again… That Ending Song in the near-middle made me thought once more: “Huh?! The episode’s done already…?!”
Rather than a series of long rolling static pictures, I would have preferred if Shaft could have animated some of Shinobu’s flashback scenes.
Or at the very least, do one of those kinetic animation thingys with the background art which Shaft/Shinbo are famously known for as Shinobu narrates (as seen in episode 5 when Hanekawa narrates her letter to Black Hanekawa).
Another gripe that I’ve been wanting to make for this series for some time is the overuse of still image texts.
This technique was only used in moderation in Bakemonogatari and Nisemonogatari, and it was cool at first while not totally being a nuisance as there weren’t that many.
This season however I’m afraid Shinbo may have overdid it, sometimes not having just one still image per frame, but up to four to five, forcing you to pause and rewind and then slowly inch forward frame by frame just to read what was written all the time , meaning I have to keep my finger by the mouse just to be prepared.
That said, the story is still fresh and engagging and I find myself coming back to punish my fingers week after week. 😀
Shinobu herself may not remember much, with her only memory of the event being still images.
I think taht’s because the show want us to “see” it the same way that Araragi does.
Not like we have seen it just like shinobu in her time but like we are told it happened.
This is why we haven’t seen the first minion’s face because like Araragi we have nothing to imagine his face.
Yeah it would have been nice to see it, but I like that choice.
Cybersteel, that’s not what I meant regarding Shinobu’s flashback. I’m not asking for full animated scenes. Yes, Shinobu doesn’t remember much, but there’s got to be something better than the use of a long rolling still image.
You know, the use of all sorts of moving geometric shapes and silhouettes would do just fine and would make Shinobu’s narrative less static.
Once again, please refer to the scene in Episode 5 where Hanekawa narrates her letter to Black Hanekawa to understand what I mean.
A strength, and at the same time a weakness, of Monogatari is that the animators aren’t afraid to try something different. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t turn out that well and people will differ on that. They were trying to create a mood, as diakama suggested, of the Edo Period. By going to a static representation my feeling is that they were trying to replicate both the look and the esthetic of that period: a “less is more”. We’re used to a more frenetic style so it takes some getting used to.
Bakemonogatari: 2 books in 15 episodes.
Nisemonogatari: 2 books with much less material in 11 episodes.
In this season each arc is a whole book. There’s only so much they squeeze into 4-5 episodes. Those texts are a way to get more material in, make some nuances clear, etc.
One of the things with the massive amounts of flashed text is, at least they’re not cutting out story bits like lots of other series do. I really liked how in Bakemonogatari they started some episodes with entire paragraphs from the novel. If you actually read that before watching the episode you would have spoiled the story. However, after enjoying the series, going back to watch it and get those extra bits of information is really fulfilling.
I’m sure it’s harder on us who can’t read kanji, because they can flash a couple recognizable kanji on the screen to get the core points across to people (sometimes just stuff like FEAR mixed with a bunch of other things that might be longer to read), which doesn’t work as well in English if the words end up being very wide.
I see where you guys are coming from. I am not trying to disparage Shinbo here, in fact, I am a great admirer of his style, so much so that my design thesis is mostly about Bakemonogatari.
As a perfectionist, I always pause, go back and re-read all those flash texts in Bakemonogatari and Nisemonogatari, sometimes without relying on subtitles to boot. Took me some time to get used to reading them in the old-styled pre-war Japanese font – use of katakana over hiragana, and kanji in their non-simplified, original Chinese form (not much of a problem for me as I grew up reading and writing Traditional Chinese), but it was something fun to learn.
Though this season I find my fingers really aching a lot due to my desire to read every bit of information shown. A 23 minute episode eventually took me over half an hour to watch.
Personally, I thought the episode was amazing! The thing i love about Shaft is i never know what they are going to do next. You definitely don’t watch Shaft for predictability in animation and style. I thought the “animation” (if you want to call it that) was very creative and fit perfectly for a flashback story that happened 100’s of years ago. Honestly, I was a bit surprised after reading all the hate here. Regardless, I’m looking forward to more of whatever Shaft brings!
And here I was hoping we would get a Shinobu OP…
Singer Maaya Sakamoto won’t do character songs.
So.. was shinobu in love with the 1st minion or not ?
I don’t understand their relationship… but he did know her first name.
I don’t mind spoilers from kizu
Kizu doesn’t give answer for that question.
as for the 2 eps of onimonogatari as I see it, it’s still unclear IMHO
I wonder if we’ll get conclusive answer….
at least we know for sure that Araragi is her favorite 😛
I think she was pretty clear on that.. didn’t she compared her thought process to the one of some people after intense experiences .. the fact she doesn’t even remembers his name is even more telling.
To be honoes her relationship with her first minion was a bit.. underwhelming .. I was thinking it was something “more” … then again this is back when she behaved in a different way.. she was at her full strength .. she was just not ready …
“I could tell him apart because he carried swords” … am I the only one that noticed that even tho she doesn’t remember HIS name.. she remembers the names of the a pair of swords?
PS: about the whole “still image” complain.. I think it worked… imho it was supposed to make the episode feel like something old.. something that happened a while ago and that doesn’t fit anymore in the current Shinobu (because she has changed)
I think it’s like, if you could understand how cows talk through mooing, you wouldn’t give a shit about what they call each other. She was a human at one point so it’s not quite the same, but humans are food now.
Yeah I know but shinobu’s explanation was lacking or vague.. I don’t know how important was the 1st minion to her at all…
I think she prefers arararagi
A huge rolling static image? Strangely enough, the Japanese have a word for that.
-facepalm- so it was all about cultural difference. D:
After watching this episode and recalling back reading Kizu- some time back, it’s kinda sad for Kiss-shot.
All she wants is acknowledgement and a partner.
If I recall correctly, Show Spoiler ▼
demn powerpoint presentation
well to be honest im quite disappointing, I had put so much expectation onto this arc, hopefully can see a full fledged kissshot back on the screen again, but it turns me off when all I see was some magnificent ‘slideshow presentation’.
I understand that the light novel presented it this way too, but why they couldn’t just animated it a few scene, instead of using slideshow presentation for the whole storytelling?
monogatari 2nd season was a bit turn off for me.
The reminiscence episodes was unnecessarily, it is a fucking waste of episode, how many episode we still have in here? oh my gawd. == Then I started to get pissed by why shinobu didn’t get an opening theme, assuming Sakamoto didn’t do any character song, but… why?
And where the fuck is kizumonogatari? don’t freaking tell me it contains too many gore scene that they had to reconsider it.
All of my friends started to give up on this series, whilst I’m the one still have a heart on it, but now I will not have any expectation on monogatari animated series anymore, light novel do the best.
Sorry for any bad comments, I’m a huge fans of monogatari series, just… shaft why? ==