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Log Horizon 2 – 20

「バースデイ・ソング」 (Baasudei Songu)
“Birthday Song”

We’re finally dealing with people who don’t want to be in this new world, but there aren’t any easy answers.

Questions Without Answers

Lately it feels like Log Horizon is asking a lot of questions, and isn’t providing a lot of answers. Largely that’s because there aren’t any easy answers, or any at all. Take Londark and his rebellion against the world. Nyanta is right about how no one chose to be in this world, or in the one before it; no one chooses the cards they’re dealt, they just have to play with them. Londark’s nihilist, mercenary attitude isn’t very helpful, but it’s as understandable as the Odyssey Knights wanting to go back home.

A better example is probably death. It feels like Nyanta, Tohya, and the others are all trying to invest death with a kind of gravity that, for adventurers, it truly does not have. Tohya is right to rebel against the Odyssey Knight’s attitude, at least in so far that anyone is right for butting into someone else’s choices (they can chain die if they want to, but Tohya can hope for better for them, and they ought to take it out of the city), but Londark’s death really was an inconvenience instead of a tragedy. A little memory loss is nothing next to an actual demise. If death is more than that for adventurers, we’re going to need more answers about this world, and we don’t have them.

Kazuhiko’s Goodness

I appreciate that Nyanta didn’t totally pass judgement on Kazuhiko. He said it looked to him that Kazuhiko had lost his goodness, but I’m not so sure, and neither, it would appear, is Nyanta. Personally, I don’t think Kazuhiko has. He has struck me time and time again—such as when he didn’t want them to use the EXP pots on the People of the Land, for fear of it damaging them—as someone trying to make good of a shitty situation. The problem is that he’s walking on the dark side, and when you walk in the darkness for too long, it becomes hard to see the light. I’m pretty sure he’s not bad, but he might be lost. I’m not sure he’s doing the right thing to save Mizufa and try to change Plant Hwyaden from the inside, but I’m not sure. Once again, we need more answers to our many questions.

Isuzu’s and the Forty-Third Song

The conclusion of the episode, where Isuzu was singing her new song on the roof of a ruined city, was unfulfilling. I’m just not sure whether that’s because we’re not quite at the end of this arc, or if that was the point. It was a love song, of sorts, but to the world, to this world where she has traveled with her friends. Yet while she was singing, the Odyssey Knights were still dying, and all of Tohya’s protests to try to save them amounted to nothing. Is that the point? To show that they can’t change everything, they aren’t the heroes, and people will make their own choices, even if you think they’re wrong? Perhaps, and that’s a good lesson to keep in mind. If that was the intent, this episode drove it home. If not … well, we’ll find out more next week.

Looking Ahead – A Letter For Shiroe

Roe2, who proved herself to be scary powerful in this episode, is sending the young’uns back with a letter for Shiroe. Once again, I’ve been spoiled on parts of this (use those spoiler tags, people), so I can’t say much, but I can say that I’ll miss Roe2. She’s a lot of fun, with her onee-san fetish and her goofy vampire weaknesses. But more importantly, we’re heading back to Akiba and SHIROE! I’ve enjoyed parts of this arc and its old school adventuring vibe, but Log Horizon is at its best on a national (or larger) scale. Shiroe ought to give us that.

tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – The first overt dust up between Log Horizon & Plant Hwyaden ends in a complex tie, while Isuzu sings as the city burns #loghora s2e20

Random thoughts:

  • Nyanta is Lv 92 Swashbuckler, while Londark is a finger wiggling caster and Mizufa is Lv 68. MMORPG logic would dictate that Nyanta should have easily cleaned both of their clocks—Londark because Nyanta got into melee range, and Mizufa because of straight level. Yet, he said that Mizufa is strong. I wonder, is this another instance of my operating on MMORPG logic when the world of Log Horizon isn’t quite an MMO anymore? Level may be a proxy for power, but perhaps it’s not everything.
  • D’aawwwww, Nyanta thought of Serara. When he was talking about children, granted, but at least he’s fond of her. You’ve still got a shot, Seraracchi!
  • I wish Nureha had realized that Tohya’s comment was all him, rather than something taught by Shiroe. I feel like Captain Obvious saying this, but her “Shiro-sama” fixation isn’t healthy. Maybe Tohya will be a factor in her redemption later on. We can hope.

My first novel, Wage Slave Rebellion, is available now. (More info) Sign up for my email list for a FREE sequel short story. Over at stephenwgee.com, the last four posts: Wasted work, Vemödalen, My lost job, and the beginning of my travels, and Feedback from family.

 

Preview

February 23, 2015 at 7:20 pm
53 comments »
  • February 23, 2015 at 7:34 pmhuntermad

    Lander need 4x more exp to level up compare to Adventurers so top Landers have enough skills to compensate somewhat for their inferior stats

    • February 23, 2015 at 9:37 pmStilts

      I remember that, and it makes sense. Like I mentioned before, I think I was relying too much on MMORPG logic when I was assuming Nyanta would curbstomp her. Not that he didn’t seem set to win, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t good.

      If she had been nearer to his level, it’s possible (likely) that she would have embarrassed him into a dirt nap.

  • February 23, 2015 at 7:37 pmRob

    Mizufa’s class was translated as “Warlord”. I wonder about these classes that seem exclusive to People of the Land. Maybe they weren’t included as playable options because they’re unbalanced?

    I also wonder if it will be important that Plant Hwyaden seems to have a bunch of them, but Akihabara does not.

    • February 23, 2015 at 11:31 pmewok40k

      possibly the system is “inventing” new classes to allow people who don’t fit standard classes to be somehow labelled…

      • February 25, 2015 at 3:06 amStilts

        There have already been Lander-specific classes. For example, Lenessia’s subclass is “Rose Garden Princess”, a subclass exclusive to her.

      • February 25, 2015 at 11:00 amewok40k

        @ Stilts what a wonderful subclass – entirely fitting…

  • February 23, 2015 at 7:50 pmLonghaul

    I would say Mizufa was stronger than her level indicated because she is someone who actually knows how to fight, and not just relying on stats/skills like many adventurers do.

    Its like if I got in the ring with a 4 foot tall pro MMA fighter, I might be half again his size but I would get destroyed.

    • February 23, 2015 at 8:59 pmKaleRylan

      Maybe it’s just me, but given she’s got some kind of weird thorn whip/tentacle on her arm, I kind of assumed there’s more to her than meets the eye. Like she’s been infected by the bad monsters or something.

      • February 23, 2015 at 9:42 pmKaleRylan

        So no one has any thoughts on what the heck was going on with her arm? Landers just have tentacles sometimes?

      • February 23, 2015 at 10:25 pmRob

        Maybe it’s something that comes with being a Warlord? Like how Druids have familiars.
        Or maybe she had it grafted onto her arm to increase her fighting ability.

      • February 24, 2015 at 10:11 amErimaki

        I might have missed something, but wasn’t that just a normal whip?

    • February 23, 2015 at 9:14 pmRedRocket

      To me Nyanta was holding back hard on someone he wanted to convince there was a better way and very hard when facing a Lander who could die although he would have killed her twice if not stopped in the end.

      • February 23, 2015 at 9:40 pmStilts

        I do think you’re right that Nyanta was holding back because he didn’t want to perma-kill her, though he resolved himself to do it a couple of times, and would have if Kazuhiko hadn’t stopped him. (Nyanta is the kind of guy who would kill to stop a destructive war, that hero-nyan~.) However, I think Longhaul is right too. That lady has some serious skills.

      • February 24, 2015 at 10:40 amLyfe

        It’s not really in his nature to kill someone like that. He was clearly fighting her to a point she would concede.

    • February 23, 2015 at 11:35 pmewok40k

      I think it is a combination of her own skills, and Nyanta hodlding back sometimes… She seems to posses some magical equipment (“Whip of Thorns”?). Nyanta definitely noticed she was strong for her supposed level, a further indication of game deviating from original when you could have easily predicted power by level…

  • February 23, 2015 at 9:01 pmKaleRylan

    Nureha just flat out says that Shiroe is the only one she thought was special. She’s got a pretty clear fixation. Tohya did crack that as we see in several of the meaningful shots, but it’s not broken yet.

    I would still say that, if she’s redeemed, it will be Tohya to do it. Because I don’t see how Shiroe could use his awesomeness to break a fixation that is built on is awesomeness. If she’s going to realize others are special, another someone has to show that. And Tohya seems like the one.

    But who knows.

    • February 23, 2015 at 9:21 pmAna

      Put that way, it almost sounds a bit like the Fluegel’s situation in No Game, No Life — at first she thought only Kuuhaku was special, but she also came to appreciate Steph’s grandfather, and hopefully more people after that.

      • February 23, 2015 at 9:42 pmStilts

        Both good points. I definitely think Tohya is the key for her (as it stands now), and not just because Shiroe being amazing would play to her delusion. Shiroe said he would be her enemy, not her savior, and that’s a role he’s far more suited to, personality-wise. Tohya, on the other hand, is the right guy to do some hero work.

        Jibril is also a good comparison, and one I hadn’t thought of.

  • February 23, 2015 at 9:11 pmRedRocket

    On Isuzu’s song I found if wonderful that she had the realization I discussed before and has chosen to pursue art and to better the world in the small way that wonderful songs can even if she never gets to be a great artist. Our world over all is more civilized than it has ever been, and in most but environmental areas our world is at it’s best ever. Look up the subject and you will find a good amount of research supporting this. It’s just the news media has to report the same amount of problems no matter wether things are getting better or not. I credit that to the fruits of the Enlightenment moved forward both by the greats and in little parts by large number of people like Isuzu trying to bring in more joy.

    Now on Isuzu’s there are good differences Show Spoiler ▼

    I have greatly enjoyed this arc but that is in part for two reasons. One, I still find stories about young adults interesting, many reject at the start even trying to enjoy these. Second, I’m a massive world builder fan in fiction. So I want the story to keep going on till almost everything in the world is fleshed out. As a result I’m prepared for the master story to be a framework filled in by many story arcs some effecting the master plot more or less, Taking each arc as almost it’s own story to be enjoyed and try to tamp down disappointment in that I want the main plot to move forward thoughts because I want the bigger world. Think of it in many cases as many stories written to tie together by a central theme. Often in these major world building stories many authors will become involved one way you can see Log Horizon as this type of work is the author actually making some fan fiction stories cannon. Also sometimes in even one book works what seams unimportant is major a problem with rating a story’s slow movement because if you read the whole thing you would be rewarded by a major event tied to it. Sort of like how many hate the Mordor part of the Lord of Rings but it is hard to get the effect on Frodo with out the drudgery and then get the great joy when he succeeds. A good thing for Log Horizon is clearly a major multi book work was intended from the start. Very popular work that the author kept tight for maximum enjoyment not intending further works often spawn awkward additional works.

    Reading comments here and else I see many upset when a adaptation skips to much, like Log Horizon in China. And then you get I hate this arc why is it not shorter comments even when the adaptation is still not adapting every thing like this arc of Log Horizon. I wonder if some of this is a valid you did not like something emotion that you try to come up with reasons for even though in effect the fans are stating mutually opposing ideas of be faithful to the source but want anything they don’t like compressed. (if your an anime only fan ignore this) Also it really might not be written well nothing more complex. (although written well is a major study but often in the end very subjective) Me personally even though I normally don’t read the source works from now on will try to determine if the anime is adapting closely or not. And if adapting closely try to address complaints to the author of the source not the anime in those cases.

    • February 23, 2015 at 9:48 pmStilts

      On criticizing the pacing in both arcs:

      First, I’d note that it’s perfectly rational to criticize the Kanami arc and this one for pacing reasons. The Kanami arc was definitely too fast, and if someone doesn’t like the more diffuse focus or the young’un party, this one would definitely drag on too long.

      That said, people are generally pretty bad at picking out why they don’t like things. From politics to food to entertainment to relationships, we’re just not that great at sussing out what’s actually bothering us about a thing, often as not because there’s not one clear answer.

      So you shouldn’t be surprised that people are tossing out criticism that is seemingly hypocritical. As bad as we humans are at analysis, we’re great at hypocrisy. Which is why we’re so much fun!

  • February 23, 2015 at 9:23 pmrandompasserby

    You know, the last few episodes I have this nagging feeling about the direction of the series these past arc so I’m glad you addressed a lot of the concerns similar to mine Stilts.

    Seriously though, what’s up with the series’ directing lately?
    A few scenes that I feel are supposed to be impactful/highlights like Nyanta’s confrontation with Londark/Mizufa/Kazuhiko and Isuzu’s original song just kinda… happened without any tension or buildup whatsoever :/

    Part of it I feel is due to the lackluster musical accompaniment imo. Log Horizon’s usage of it’s own version of the victory fanfare is so poorly timed it’s grating.

    And then comes the lack of any proper conclusions. So whatever happened to the Odyssey Knights Tohya’s so persistently bugging after Isuzu snaps at them? What are Isuzu’s new song effects and implications? What the hell is the Red Night Operation and besides sating the bloodlust of a war-crazy general and power leveling some few Lander via human experimentation (comes with a generic mad scientist too, yay!) what’s in it for Plant Hwayden?

    For a series I loved because of its attention to details in world building and the clarity of which it’s presented, the number of unknown factors popping up recently with no hint of a future explanation or payoff is beginning to get on my nerves.

    …I suppose I too can wait a week or so for some of those answers (hopefully).
    But seriously, is there a change in staffs? Have we run out of the source material and running on fillers now? Because it kinda feels like it, unfortunately.
    Mind you, I still think it’s worth watching but… yeah.

    Now on to the things I like :
    -Nureha’s wistful longing for Shiroe, or at least for his approval, is oddly endearing. At least it presents her as a more interesting/sympathetic villain than her so-far-obviously-evil maid or the typical battle-happy general and mustache twirling old mad scientist we’ve got in Plant Hwayden. Creepy and mildly disturbing definitely but still <3. Need a lot more of her and the sooner the better.

    -Hey that summon's design looks kinda familiar and wtf so OP… now wait a flipping second, Holy flying goat slime did Roe2 just summoned one of the Luquenje?! One of those legendary six Ruined Princess that damn near destroyed the world Regan was talking about in season 1 O____O??

    • February 23, 2015 at 9:48 pmKaleRylan

      I sort of agree with this. When this season started everyone was complaining that the art had taken a hit due to the changes. Now that we’re far enough in, I think we can agree that the art is still fine, though arguably a bit worse. But what is starting to become clear, particularly here in the second half of the season, is that (and I don’t know exactly what happened to the team make-up) the DIRECTING has taken way more of a hit than the art.

      Fights happen at weird times, the use of music is slightly odd, the pacing of the adaptation itself is also a bit strange, with some parts (whole books) being a single episode and other parts being dragged out.

      I assume part of the problem is running up against the limit of the published material and trying to figure out how to deal with that. But that can only explain so much.

    • February 23, 2015 at 9:53 pmStilts

      We haven’t run out of source material yet, though it won’t be long until we do. Maybe, uh, after next week. Not totally sure about that.

      There are some directing oddities this season, though. Part of it is because I feel a lot of what we’re doing now is laying down track for later conflicts, compared to the more focused events of the first season. We might be in the squishy middle of the Log Horizon story which in retrospect may make perfect sense, but might nonetheless not be as strong as previous or later events.

      It does also feel like the directing has taken a straight hit, though. Maybe a consequence of the clearly small budget and the knowledge that Log Horizon isn’t going to be a runaway hit (which they were probably still trying for during season one) did it, or the staff isn’t as deep as it was last time (the main people are still there). Not sure.

      • February 23, 2015 at 11:05 pmKrono

        Given the way anime production times tend to work, they probably ran out of source material a month ago. Ideally, they’d be wrapping up production of episode 23 or 24 this week. Worst case scenario, they’d be wrapping up production of episode 21. However, even in the worst case scenario, the writers and storyboarders should be on episode 23 or 24 by this point. In short, they likely ran out of publically available source material a while ago, and have instead been relying on the author’s unpublished notes or drafts.

        As for the oddities of direction, I think there are four issues that are possible factors. First of all, the obvious one that they didn’t have a full season of source material to start with. That complicates planning.

        Second, one of the novels they had to work with, was an anachronic side story that takes places concurrent with last season. It wasn’t ready last season, so they couldn’t work it in then. It contains revelations that are too important to skip. Yet it doesn’t fit chronologically in this season, making it’s inclusion difficult and messy, no matter how they go about it.

        Third, the director’s time is divided. Log Horizon’s director is Shinji Ishihira. He also is the director for Fairy Tail. Last season, Fairy Tail was not airing at the time. So Log Horizon had his full, and undivided attention. This season however Fairy Tail is airing, and his time divided between the two, and perhaps his work as suffered a bit as a result.

        Four, the change in animation studios. Previously, Fairy Tail was animated by A-1 Pictures and Satelight, while Log Horizon was done by Satelight. The resumption of Fairy Tail however is animated by A-1 Pictures and Bridge, while Log Horizon 2 is animated by Studio DEEN. Going from years of working with Satelight’s staff and animators on both his projects, to working with Bridge and DEEN’s animators on separate projects is bound to be disruptive. A likely example of this being character design, the change in designers people mean he’d have to hammer out even the main cast’s designs all over again.

      • February 24, 2015 at 12:04 amLonghaul

        This arc finishes the published material (volume 8), volume 9 was the Kanami side story (which will be released in late March) and volume 10 is being written now with weekly updates to the web version on Mamares website. It appears that the anime will cover volume 10.

        Show Spoiler ▼

      • February 24, 2015 at 10:47 amLyfe

        It was confirmed a short while back by the author that the anime will cover Volume 10.

      • February 24, 2015 at 10:51 amLyfe

        @Krono

        You know, lately I’ve seen glimpses of decent animation pretty much on the same level as Season 1 but they somewhat spoil it by dropping to the usual levels. It seems DEEN can do decent animation if the money is there.

    • February 23, 2015 at 10:10 pmPancakes

      It makes some sense if the well of source material is running dry, but runs into further issues about why greater fleshing out wasn’t done to make up for the lack of story. Hell could have easily expanded that China bit into another episode and better rounded out the kid’s arc here with either canon-derived material or anime-only filler, plenty of options if the source material is almost entirely adapted.

      I agree this is probably a directing issue and likely involves a change in the team. Whether due to budget or organizational shuffling who knows, but such a noticeable change doesn’t just happen because the adaptation runs past the cliff where the source material ends.

  • February 23, 2015 at 9:59 pmPancakes

    Well it wasn’t a boring arc, but it certainly was lackluster compared to the previous ones (especially the raid arc starting off this season). There just wasn’t any proper meshing of many of the varied components here, especially in terms of the questions raised. Beyond the few rushed scenes dealing with the objectives/plans of the Odyssey Knights and Plant Hwyaden we haven’t really got answers, just the kids doing things.

    This arc might have served amicably for secondary world building, but IMO lacked in the areas where Log Horizon shines. For good or bad, the most interesting parts continue to remain the purview of Shiroe and the main LH characters. Hopefully the final few episodes can tie up some loose ends and go out with a bang because it would be disappointing to see this series end on an anticlimatic note.

  • February 24, 2015 at 12:18 amVagrant

    I’m glad that DEEN at least sprang for getting Isuzu an original song instead of rehashing existing LogHora songs/bgms.

    Judging from the glowing aura people were getting after her song I’m assuming her creating the 43rd soundtrack for ET is considered an Overskill?

    If it is an Overskill, I hope they allocate ample time showcasing that on the next ep. She’s the first in her batch to come up with one, also it already has a nice backstory leading up to it. It deserves a little more than the treatment the studio has for it so far.

    With regards to Roe2, her incantations and the the face/mask of her summoned creature is very interesting. I’m guessing she’s… (putting in spoilers just in case)

    Show Spoiler ▼

    • February 24, 2015 at 4:06 amKaleRylan

      The show didn’t explain this well, but from what I understand, her using pre-existing songs up to this point was not some lazy oversight. She was singing covers, that’s part of why she felt she was a fake, because in a way, she was. This is the only time she’s SUPPOSED to have an original song.

      Admittedly, the anime could have used a bunch of random ‘real’ songs and then had her make one up for this part, but arguably that wouldn’t have worked as well for what was necessary because to viewers it would have just been a bunch of random songs. This way we get the sense that she was just copying stuff until this moment, which is what she was doing.

      Since this is over, I don’t think this is a spoiler and has more to do with adaptational choices than anything, but feel free to put it in tags if you disagree.

  • February 24, 2015 at 1:49 amSMistrel

    This episode raise more questions than answers, but I do think it is a very good one.

    It shows that beneath the bright and exciting facade of the world of Log Horizon, it is still a bleak and despairing world. Londark, the Odyssey Knights and the young’uns (Tohya and Isuzu in particular, maybe even Nyanta too) must be trying to rebel against this unjust heaven in they own way.

    I think that might be the reasons Tohya reacted so strongly to the actions of the Odyssey Knights. He might not agree with their method, but it must’v ring a bell somewhat.

    • February 24, 2015 at 12:15 pmRedRocket

      I would say rather that along with the things many have accepted and enjoyed the challenges there is still much wrong to address and many who have chose not to embrace their new challenges. Both the good and the evil are real. Most of our friendly hero’s are thriving and enjoying a world where they are way better off and have a way better future than they faced in the mundane earth. I know I’d be going to Log Horizon world in a second if it was an option. Of course I’m the rare older player and gaining a second youth and 30 plus years of life is hard to turn down. But yes to many this is a horror tale with no end. And there are many challenges that some like me see as great quests but many rightly wish did not exist.

      And of course there are evils moving that could doom all, a lot is in risk tolerance. I was an Army Infantry Officer when war with the Soviet Union was possible and did not expect to survive a war with that casualty level. Officer casualties of low ranking infantry officers in WW II as high as 25% of total infantry losses and there is only one officer for every 30 plus listed so infantry officer is target number one in that war. So for a nobel cause I am willing to risk greatly (of course after the test of battle I might have felt different) so for me the Log Horizon world is a great challenge. For others of course the Log Horizon world is a hell. And we don’t even know if Earth as the players knew it even remains the same. This could actually be the future of the Earth the players knew their civilization whipped out only the players surviving.

  • February 24, 2015 at 3:56 amtoti

    I don’t know if i can leave this here, but this is an absurdly heavy and smooth gif of Nyanta-san badassness.

    In overall a great episode.

  • February 24, 2015 at 4:13 amKaleRylan

    A point about Stilts’s ongoing complaint about scale:

    I still disagree with it, I don’t think scale is the issue really. The conflicts at work here I think were plenty large scale. We had one of our largest battles yet, we had an epic duel, we have a brewing war between adventurers and landers, and adventurers and adventurers, we have the nearly insane actions taken by some adventurers in response to their despair of being trapped in this world.

    That said, IMO what might be wrong here is a choice of pacing and order of operations. We’ve had 30 episodes and months of adventurers being basically fine with being in this world. Yes, we all wondered why they were so fine with it, but we got over it. And the story focused on other things, and the LH fandom learned to appreciate a story that wasn’t really about going home. Until suddenly it was. These are themes that should have been dealt with 20 episodes ago. Or, if he wants to say they’ve been building, then that should have been shown.

    While it’s valid and interesting to see this brewing conflict between adventurers, it’s not what the longtime LH fans are here for. In a way (thematically) it’s like an arc of SAO suddenly got pushed into the middle of the story-line from out of nowhere. While this conflict is arguably the most logical in any trapped-in-another-world story, arguably its implementation here was quite poor and the ship has already sailed here on how much LH viewers particularly care about this specific question.

    • February 24, 2015 at 10:08 amErimaki

      I would have to disagree on these being themes that need to be tackled first in this kind of setting. Personally, I find the fact that the adventurers were ensuring their survival first quite natural. Sure it’s not the typical “food, water and shelter” type of survival, but the kind of emotional and psychological stability that came with everything the Round table Council did is almost equally important. If the adventurers were too apathetic to barely put the effort in getting food
      Show Spoiler ▼

      I don’t see how they could have done anything about returning home.
      And after that survival issue, they were kind of thrown into Lander politics, Goblin raid and so on.

      I do agree that these issues could have been mentioned before now though.
      Show Spoiler ▼

      • February 25, 2015 at 6:48 amKaleRylan

        I’m not discussing what the players did. I’m discussing writing choices. This is not ‘real,’ it’s a book, so any development is at the whim of the author (and the adaptation team in this case).

        My point is that in the anime, as Stilts said, it feels like the scale has shrunk. I do not believe that’s what happened. Instead, I feel like the the plot has taken a step back. Generally, when faced with a crisis, people panic and THEN deal with it. Log Horizon for various reasons mostly chose to skip the panic stage, at least as far as the main thrust of the story went.

        Now suddenly we’ve got the people that are panicking or ‘raging against the machine’ appearing in a big way long after the plot itself had come to terms with this. In plot/writing terms we’ve got dealing with the crisis and then panicking about it later.

        Again, this isn’t WRONG per se, or even done badly in the story, but for viewers it gives this kind of weird disconnect where something that we thought was over after the Round Table arc, and had been all but ignored after that, is suddenly back and has taken over the plot. It’s a bit strange and, combined with other odd directorial decisions that have been made in the last 8 or so episodes, makes for a less satisfying viewing.

      • February 26, 2015 at 6:00 amErimaki

        Technically speaking I was discussing writing choice too and using player actions that result from the choices to justify my opinion on the choices being right ones.

        Anyways, I do agree that the way the current issues were introduced was rather abrupt and might create this disconnect you speak of. Personally I’m not feeling that disconnect though, but that might be just me.

      • February 28, 2015 at 12:23 pmSore no Kaze

        The problem is that they have solved this issue on their district, but not in the overall world of Log Horizon. This arc, other then bringing out emphasis on the kids, is the fact while the Log Horizon group is okay about not heading home, there are other groups around the world who, as any other group in the world do want to head home, or don’t care about the world. Sure, some places get over it, but the point is that as like the real world, conflict will take place, because not everyone will agree. Getting Home is not a priority for the Round Table, but it may be for everyone else. I can see viewers (Even readers might have a problem with this at first), but the real point of bringing out the fact that others have this issue is the possibility of conflict (which will always be something that’ll be part of our lives, though whether it results in war or not is a different story) and how that may shape the direction this world goes towards. It’s not only conflict with People of the Land who want war, but it could also be with other adventurers who have other goals that may conflict with the main party such as the Knight of Odyssey, or Plant Hywanden ambitions and such.

        As such, I think the disconnect some people are having is that they assumed everyone got over some of these issues. The flaw of assumptions is that (possibly naive thinking, but I won’t say it’s the reason), once the main party resolves it, no one else should have the issue with this. Because the main party has solved it. Problems where this comes out is in many stories, especially ones we’ve read early on in our lives, the party resolves an issue the people have in some town, and then it won’t come full circle and hit them again usually such as solving the lands water problem, or a princes issue of ruling. It’s basic story telling that we won’t face the same issue again in adventurer stories as a basic way to keep it interesting.

        Yet let’s take a step back. We say that these issues were resolved, but were they really resolved or did we want to believe they were resolved. What Shiroe and the round table did on the basic level, was A. Create Order, B. Create Security, and C. Give people a place to call home. That doesn’t mean we actually solved these underlying issues that are appearing now though. Our party is okay with not making going home a priority, but they’ve never solved the actual issue for everyone else. What they solved was the chaos that was occuring due to lack of security, rules and the safety of something called home. Basically the idea of human security was the actual conflict. Which was solved. These other issues that are appearing, was never solved. Everyone who assumed it was, was because on the surface, everyone was enjoying themselves. Or other factors such as Demiques toning down and accepting life. But the party has never actually until now, resolved other issues such as the idea of heading home. Not once do you even hear or see the classic thank you, our problem was solved in this regard. So the question really is, is this an issue that was solved and came back full circle, or is it that everyone, even the viewers assumed these underlying issues were solved so easily that it couldn’t possibly come back up again when in reality, it was never solved in the first place.

        P.S. I hope my comment doesn’t offend anyone. I’m not saying that anyone stupid or dumb. I’m just putting my own take (which also in that sense, makes me appreciate Log Horizon even more on some of the other books I enjoy reading such as Wheel of Time, Game of Thrones, Mystery novels) on the viewers disconnect. Perhaps it was poor choice ot leave these issues in the background. My understanding is that it was never resolved in the first place and people assumed it was. Even without the classic take of how stories go about saying so and so issue was solved. Secondly, I find it interesting how peole are suddenly saying, that a not getting trap issue is suddenly appearing. Sure the main issue is that people want to go home. THE REAL ISSUE, is that this causes conflict, especially between adventurers. The point of writing it this way is that the viewers, in the eyes of the character are suppose to think at first, that everything is fine. Then the break happens when you realize everything isn’t as fine as it seems. It’s a style of writing that happens often in Mystery novels where you have a red herring thrown in convincing you that one person is the murderer when they really aren’t. The viewers was put into a false state of security. But if you actually step back, you realize that this plot of going home vs. those who want to at least make living here work before focusing on home was never resolved. It’s an assumption viewers make due to the fact the author clearly in the eyes of the characters never see, or address this problem directly for other people. We’ve in any sense of the word, have only seen people who been okay with how the world is for them right now. This issue goes way back to even the Silver Swords arc, where guild members quit (not necessarily wanting to go back home, but their disconnect as an over all issue since the general issue of all these underlying issues is the acceptance that this is the world as it will be for them from now on). You can try to say as much as you want that people never had qualms about this or that it was already resolved, but in reality, what was resolved in the first season it self, was human security for the adventurer in Akihabara. The main groups never really outright solve or rather even attempted to solve these other issues that were probably around (such as being force to do something, nto being able to adapt, wanting to go home, not recognizing Elder Tale aka the People of the Land as people, etc under the huge sphere of this world is a fake). The assumptions we made on the surface is the reason for the disconnect for some people (and the question of choice in writing), but it’s also due to the way the author purposely shift focus away from these underlying issues + with the intention to make us not only unaware, but assume that now everyone is okay with the world. These things along with what was teased in Kanami arc, as well as the ongoing arc is suppose to wake up the readers. That while you’ve seen only joy and happiness, that underneath, the world still has these issues at hand. That the main party have a number of issues at hand to face. In a sense, it’s also the idea that the young adventuer indirectly represent us who’s world are shaking which leads us to the discussion of, “wasn’t this issue was resolved, was this poor writing choice, the scale of what’s occuring, the questions that have come up with no real answer at the moment.” The assumption as you put, the ship has sailed, really puts in question did it actually sail or do we just want to believe it sailed. Though I strongly would argue that even if it supposedly did, the true purpose was that it’ll still be one of many issues of conflict that will occur between adventurers, even if the party themselves have no qualms about not returning to the real world or not as a goal their pursuing at the moment or in the possible future.

  • February 24, 2015 at 5:46 amMAIRU

    http://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%202%20-%2020%20-%2025.jpg

    Yup, this beg for more question. Roe2 as someone clone theory disappear into the air.

  • February 24, 2015 at 7:43 amAdam

    Not really.

    Roe2 is a Necromancer build Summoner.

    Summoning legendary dead people is entirely within her likely skill set.

    It wouldn’t even be like she’d be the first Summoner we’ve seen pull a Full Legion Raid Boss out of a pokeball.

    And IIRC Show Spoiler ▼

  • February 24, 2015 at 9:23 amsithstormjedi

    If only Isuzu had a better singing voice. I had to mute the entire few minutes when she sang.

  • February 24, 2015 at 10:19 amErimaki

    Personally, I enjoy seeing some events of smaller scale between the large-scale ones, to gain a sense of balance or something like that, so this arc hasn’t felt as bad to me as it seems to have many others. It probably helps that I’m generally a fan of the kid team, now even more than ever since Isuzu and Tohya gained some needed development.
    The problem I’ve had with this arc though is that so much is happening but not too much of it is explained. Stilts’ comments on Roe2′s babble from last episode is a prime example.I honestly wouldn’t have minded this arc being an episode or two longer if that meant some better explanation.

    I’m not saying anything new on the Misufa vs Nyanta fight here, but throwing in a random analogy because why not. Their difference is that he has the natural strength to throw a rock farther, but she has the experience and skills to throw it where it hurts the most.
    There are other ones too of course, like the take on killing and the whole sanity thing.

    On completely unrelated news, I picked up this really cool book called Wage Slave Rebellion on weekend. Loving it =)

  • February 24, 2015 at 10:38 amLyfe

    There’s a bit of realism there regarding the people who are finding it hard mentality to live in the world and want to return home. When you look at it another way, the world is basically a prison for them, they never asked to go there, they can’t leave. Some obviously have friends and family and loved ones that they desperately want to return too. It seems easy to see how people could fall into despair.

  • February 24, 2015 at 11:42 amFlareKnight

    I’m glad to see people like Londark in this world because it’s believable. Some people would be genuinely pissed at their situation. It’s true that no one really chooses the world and situation they are born into. But these are people not born but ones who had grown to some degree into their lives and then ripped away from them. Some are going to be angry and irrational.

    While I appreciate Tohya and company wanting these people to stop what they are doing….there’s a time and place and this wasn’t it. While he was wasting his time getting knocked around the city was getting wasted.

    Plus I don’t think Tohya can relate to those people at all. He’s been through tragedy, but also this world is a god send for him. A world he isn’t hurt, a world he can be as powerful as he works to being and a world he has his sister. How can he really talk to someone leaving a fiance behind? Some people are better off in this situation than others.

    At least Nyanta realized that there are no easy answers to give to people like Londark.

    • February 24, 2015 at 11:49 amLyfe

      I agree and well said. It wouldn’t surprise me realistically to see people attempting to break the game thinking it may be a means of returning home.

    • February 26, 2015 at 4:45 amSolaris

      Tohya’s actions have a meaning. In the last season someone said something about how the terrible thing about death in this world was you could become accustomed to it. Maybe Shiroe to Tohya? I don’t remember well, sorry. The matter regarding Odyssey Knights was also foreshadowed in the last season and now they explain it better. They want to indulge in the sweet memory of their old world, unaware or maybe uncaring that they’ll lose that memory eventually. In this world loosing exp points means loosing psyche, or better said soul. Odyssey Knights are loosing their souls in exchange for a fading dream. And by doing so they become warped and uncaring of themselves and of the others, so that the town is being wasted in the process. Tohya last standing is about their own sake, from the perspective of someone who really knows the gravity of a near death experience in real life.

  • February 24, 2015 at 4:50 pmFukSlaine

    BORING ARC! Enough of Rudy and his idiotic pals, RUDY IS A BOREFEST, that makes this series boring! Bring back Shiroe and Akatsuki with Round table, who gives a crap about these stupid kids and their melodrama! Cant believe Im gonna say this, but SAO had a better arc with Mother Rosario in these episodes than this boring kid arc, FUK RUDY

    • February 26, 2015 at 5:05 amSolaris

      Kid arcs vs Round Table arcs are being used as a different approach for world building. While Shiroe and the other high level guys have the power of influencing the game environment and managing it ad an higher level, the kids are often struck by game mechanics they have to fight and adapt too. Kids arcs are to let the audience experience the game from a lower standpoint. It’s always an interesting take at fleshing out the world of Elder Tales. In this regard Rudy and Isuzu relationship serves the purpose of explaining the subtle differences between lander and adventurers. The part when Isuzu is bragging about talent and Rudy trying to understand and then replying with that 42 world is really enlightening and the shows the core of this arc too: The difference between Landers and Adventurers. As there are adventurers that try to accept this new world making it better, like Shiro and the others, there are also who plainly reject it like Odyssey Knight. There is also who just want to exploit it like Plant Hawwhatever. The landers are the same in that regards. There’s the people like Rudy who tries to understand and is fascinated by these ‘aliens’ and who just want to fight like Mizufa. In short, there is a lot going here, so hearing it’s boring saddens me a little.

  • February 24, 2015 at 6:12 pmDafuq

    Log Horizon needs Shiroe, its main character, to take the main spotlight. Everything feels a bit bland without his scheming.

  • February 25, 2015 at 12:14 amhwighting

    this ‘minori’ arc was a real snoozer. i feel like it was forced just to progress the plot. miss isuzu, possibly one of the least interesting characters got way too much screen time. the pacing in general lately has been bad. real bad. like monkeys wtf showing up in attack of titans bad.

    • February 26, 2015 at 5:13 amSolaris

      Isuzu is far from useless. Rudy and her are the bridge between Landers and Adventurers. What happens to Isuzu in this arc, is her understanding she was still living in the old world mentally. It’s like some kind of coming to age when she realizes that music in Elder Tale is not alike music in the old world. Isuzu chose her class for music affinity, but music is a device of magic. The bard is one that spreads magic through music, and an adventurer who CAN create music can also create magic. It’s an overskill. Isuzu is easily the first newbie to be able to create an overskill, and this also tells you that overskill is so unlike any other skill this far. It’s not game mechanics, but the results of the adventurer’s influence over the new world.

  • February 28, 2015 at 5:42 amWorldwideDepp

    Ep 21:

    Rudy-san was Golden in this Episode. He said the right thing, at the right time. Is he really a People of the Land? Or they understand more of being Human, then the real Humans itself