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「そんなの、あたしが許さない」 (Sonna No, Atashi ga Yurusanai)
“I won’t allow that”
First, all of you who said Homura had the ability to stop time — you were right. The question I pose to you is, are those powers from being a Mahou Shoujo or something else? Getting back on topic, it felt like this episode was used specifically to close up some loose ends. Once again, after the proper context is brought in, I can’t help but feel that Kyubei is not completely evil. Sure he’s manipulative, acts like a psychopath, and even eats his previous bodies, but the phrase “We ask you to make a contract, not force you” left a strong impression on me. Such a strong impression that even after listening to him coldly describe the dire situation that the universe is in, how pubescent girls have the ability to overcome the laws of physics and thermodynamics, and his total disregard of human life, I couldn’t really hold it against him. On a moral level, is it right to compare aliens to humans? It’s like comparing superior oranges to apples, at least the superior oranges are giving the apples options. But from a human perspective, yes, I think it’s pretty screwed up.
Besides breaking the laws of physics, Kyoko’s death really bothered me. I’m normally not good at noticing death flags, especially since I don’t enjoy watching characters just dying in general. But after watching Kyoko finally open up to Madoka and her valiant attempt to save Sayaka, I was pretty devastated to watch her die by her own hands — especially after she said she wanted an ending where love and courage come out on top. The only positive thing that came out of this had to be Kyoko’s words to Madoka about becoming a Mahou Shoujo. I know that Madoka is going to have to gain some confidence for the upcoming battle during Walpurgisnacht, but did Kyoko really have to die and take Sayaka with her?
Just like Kyubei said, it seems that the only Mahou Shoujo left is Homura. With Walpurgisnacht right around the corner, and no one except Madoka left to help her, I can only see one thing hopefully happening. Then again, I can only imagine what a kick SHAFT would get if they didn’t let Madoka become a Mahou Shoujo in the end.
P.S. Kyubei’s name is actually spelled キュゥベえ or kyuubee. Personally I think that it looks pretty ugly when romanized, so I’m going to continue using Kyubei.
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This episode was so many levels of awesome. Kyubey is officialy the greatest… sentient lifeform ever!
Kyubey is also my Hero. ◕ ‿‿ ◕
Just give me a call if you don’t mind dying to save the universe :3
My friend was appalled by my alien-crush on kyubei, and asked if I thought this justified genocide (which in itself was a strawman). My reply: “beforekyubei, genocide didn’t reduce the entropy of the universe.”
thats a fair deal in my books anyday. Nothing bigger than the universe anyway so your sacrificing yourself for the biggest cause ever
Just wait till I’ve got nothing to lose. Y’know, like a family, or friends, or pets, or job, or children…
Most importantly, at least wait until Japan stops making awesome anime. I’m all yours after that.
There’s an addendum to that statement: Call me if you don’t mind dying to save the universe…temporarily.
According to Kyubey, entropy will keep on decreasing *cough*BS*cough* so they will need to more Puella Mahou energy after using up Madoka’s big reservoir.
Should I make you a Mahou Shoujo? 🙂
Plz dont! but i have a theory about Homura w/ a few details. Since a Mahou Shoujo’s abilities are based upon their signle wish, Homura probably got her time control abilities when she wished “a” future Kyubei to go back to Madoka’s time and correct Madoka’s mistake
Too bad I’m not a girl, nor emotional as madok or else I would have contracted. It seems fun to be a Mahoushoujo. His words are so deceptively convincing. These kind of speech is so common in politician talk. I love how people eat those words up, like me.
Ayumu > Madoka? ..anyone?
Lol, Masou Shoujo vs Mahou Shoujo, for the while it’s Ayumu’s lead but who knows when Madoka gets to don the frilly dress…
http://i.imgur.com/mv35x.jpg
LOL Maguka strikes again.
His words is prophetic yeah! Its like drugs, very addictive, make me wants to make a contract with him 🙂
Kyuubei would make a good salesman. 🙂
He would. =_=
Yeah, Kyubei ist this guy who phones you at midnight and asks if you want to buy an insurance.
So… are you okay becomming magical girl for a little creature that ears are growing out ears?
and a creature that’s shaped like a uterus and fallopian tube. XDD
The lack of informed consent is appalling lol
But as I thought, Kyuubei does have utilitarian ideals of saving the universe
It’s technically more noble than what humans do to other species for our enjoyment and self-preservation anyway.
We just aren’t accustomed to being used as only a means to an end.
I’ve been teetering back and forth between understanding him and hating him when my emotions come out. But after listening to his words, his ideals aren’t bad. It’s just the way he’s doing it looks bad to us 😡
Means to and end.. god. Good thing things like this shouldn’t happen.. at least not yet ;D
Makes you think that since we have emotions, as humans, we fail at a lot of things.
He’s breaking pretty much every ethical violation in the book, but would our rights still matter if everything was destroyed?
We believe it is wrong to kill to save (e.g. you can’t forcibly harvest someone’s organs even if those organs will save multiple lives), but the whole situation moves into a grey area when you are killing a few to save billions.
Right or wrong? my brain hurts
Ah but the ethical considerations do not change regardless of how many lives are in the balance. Though humans make quantitative decisions constantly, ethics exists outside of quantifications.
For example, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was justified on the grounds that killing those civilians would ultimately save hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of American and Japanese lives. However, the ethical consideration was actually the use of force against civilians. The number of civilian or military lives potentially saved is irrelevant. Ultimately, the question is: are you willing to sacrifice completely innocent lives to save others?
As my post below states, utilitarian thinking can be used to justify all sorts of atrocities if the net happiness is positive.
Indeed that is one of the big flaws of utilitarian thinking, but if killing a few innocent people will save the rest, that’s still a really tough decision
Sacrificing a few for the “greater good” is wrong, so what now?
I think the reason this is “morally” acceptable is because he is from a whole different species. The fact is that most western political thought is based on the idea that people have the right to life, liberty and property; and that’s why we considerer a lot of utilitarian philosophy unethical.
But kyubei isn’t forced into that moral framework. Technically, I’m quite sure he could he could enslave humanity if he wanted to. An advanced alien civilization, who has access to non-entropic energy is centuries ahead of humanity. And I’m pretty sure if humanity discovered the same thing, there would be zealous individuals who’d do much worse than kyubei.
this is one thing i thought as well, he instead offer choice. Why? To make a scenario to maximise hope and despair? I don’t think so as an alien invasion would likely result in a higher despair for sure. 😛
at least the girls are not gonna talk about morals,ethics, & shit. It would somehow ruin this amazing show for me if they did.
@Alec
Couldn’t agree more, just imagine a character in Madoka with the likes of Touma (from Index) or Naruto or maybe Kira (from Gundam SEED), just hearing them spout about morals and righteousness is really an pain to listen special when they have to do it every episode. thank goodness this isn’t a like that.
yeah! I just watched Votoms Case Irvine recently, and was really turned of by it
Awesome, they managed to kill off the appeal of the story with just one episode.
Why did they build up such a great setting, forshading some super mega evil Kyubey master plan just to tear it down in an eyeblink while laughing manically? The whole explaination is bullshit. The supposed “heat death” (thermodynamics, how do they work?) of the universe would take a massive amount of trillions of years, the human race would be long extinct by then and Kyubey’s race probably too (He’s an alien, whooo). And while it’s absolutely pointless to worry about it, they try to prevent it by creating new energy (thermodynamics…) using human emotions? Apparently, Madoka is the most emotional being in existance, with emotions so great it’ll prevent the collapse of the universe. Well done, SHAFT
As much as I agree with you about the reason they gave for Kyubei’s actions, I kinda feel like they needed to not make him the ultimate “bad guy” to be consistent with what they have done previously. I like how they want the viewer to think about the morality of the whole situation. Honestly, morality is something we as humans kinda created to go together with our reason and emotions. Looking at the big picture, what Kyubei’s kind are doing is kinda similar to how we as humans treat other lifeforms on Earth. It makes sense to portray the situation this way so that we can look at the philosophy from the unique standpoint of humans since we rely on emotions and morality to probably a greater extent than we do reason.
I agree, the explanation that emotions somehow are a sort of energy that is thermodynamically unrestricted is ridiculous. But at least that’s all I have to suspend belief for.
To me, an alien race are much more conceivable than magical faeries, and their goal allows kyubei to remains consistent as a character.
The heatdeath of the universe would take 100s of trillions of years, but whose to say kyubei’s race follows our perception of time. It’s quite possible, that to them it seems the universe is ending tomorrow. (not literally, but with the same urgency we would put on the thought). Also kyubei’s race, seeing how they are space faring, and seemingly technologically advanced (enough to create “miracles”), its quite possible that they will still exist for the end of the universe.
My only real gripe with this episode was that the production quality seemed to drop. Did anyone else notice the wierd shadows during that Kyoko-Madoka scene?
Before people start bashing the Madoka, lets not forget the biggest question their is, shall we?
Is he telling the truth? Or Just as being manipulative again trying to lure Madoka in making a contract?
^ kyubei is the ultimate troll
Well *we think* the heat death of the universe is an unimaginably cosmic length of time away, but perhaps our astronomy and physics are skewed by existing within a perception bubble maintained by QB and his species, designed to maintain the innocence of human children (if mankind new the end of the universe was just around the corner, our attitudes might be different and less useful). Maybe magical girl energy regenerated the universe a fairly short time ago (say 100,000 years ago). Even more plausibly, since we know Time Travel works within the series, perhaps QB and his species are from a zillion years in the future, and are reaching back into the past to draw upon magical girl energy to stave off their end…
Your hero can go die with his father Koyemshi.
Fuck, three eps left and only 1 mahou alive. What now? Make Hitomi one finally?
rofl. maybe, since they’re still missing a green ranger. XDDD
Madoka’s Mom to the rescue.
When you least expected it =O
Thus ends the latest episode of Tengen Toppa Madoka Magica…
Really though, this episode’s revelations reminded me of that show. Kyubee is the Anti-Spiral, seeking to prevent the destruction of the universe by the loss of its energy (though a big science fail on that point: The amount of energy in the universe is actually constant. Now if the destruction somehow occurred due to the absolute increase in entropy, that would be a bit more plausible. I say this specifically because Kyubee mentioned that his species was looking for a non-thermodynamic energy source in the form of emotions. But I digress, and feel free to ignore the ramblings of a science major. After all, who cares about plausibility when dealing with fiction?). Another parallel is the fact that emotions can create energy and violate the conservation law, just like in Gurren Lagann (though they usually produced drills). Kyubee the Anti-Spiral manipulates (oppresses) humans into accomplishing his goals, all for the greater good of saving the universe. And neither cares about human casualties at all. And maybe, Kyouko is the Kittan to Mami’s Kamina…
Now, as for the episode itself, my fear finally came true and I lost my beloved Kyouko…
Let us take a moment to mourn her…
She was amazing in this episode and her true kind and caring nature came out at last. Her difficulty meeting Madoka’s eyes while carrying Sayaka was poignant, as was her angry confrontation of Homura’s cold exterior. Watching her struggle to save Sayaka in the beginning and the end was heart-breaking. Seeing her willingly take the blows from Sayaka as just repayment was too sad. Though, her finishing move/Unlimited Polearm Works/heroic sacrifice explosion was breath-taking (just like Kittan! I’ll stop with that now…). Ultimately, I too am bothered that she died, and I wish that Homura had accompanied Kyouko and Madoka since she could have prevented this tragedy.
And once again, Incubator is the victor. I accept that his species is amoral and incapable of emotions, but his claim that he does not know how to trick people is rather suspect. He easily could have stopped Kyouko from attempting to save Sayaka, but her death perfectly worked in his favor against Homura, so he conveniently let the subject drop and let Kyouko die. His actions are interesting in that they align with the historical flaw of utilitarian philosophy. Namely, that innocent people can be sacrificed for the greater good so long as the happiness produced outweighs the sadness produced. Perhaps Kyubee does not view the omission of facts as a form of trickery due to his amorality. However, ignorance of one’s own actions and their consequences is no excuse.
I totally said to myself ” someone failed high school physics” when Qb said the energy in the universe was diminishing
Yeah, you have a point but everything you and I understand about science is based on human knowledge. Kyubei is part of a race that is most likely thousands, if not tens of thousands, of years ahead of ours so their understanding of science would be much greater than ours. It’s entirely possible that our understanding of the universe is close to 0% or worse, completely wrong. If you think about it that way, what Kyubei was saying is possible.
TT___TT kyoko..T__T
lolz. That was such a science fail right there. Wait, isn’t entropy the tendency of the universe to chaos? I get how that leads to losses of certain energy, but doesn’t that energy just transform into another form of energy? Sorry, I kind of zoned out during Physics class four years ago…
Still passed….
Always wondered what that teach was smoking when he graded…
The amount of “usable” energy diminished as times go. The amount of total energy remains constant. Second laws of thermodynamics 😛
Exactly what I was thinking about the science fail. It’s not because of entropy that the universe will end, it’s because the universe is expanding that it will end. The force causing the universe to expand will overtake gravity and bonds between particles, but we have billions of years before that happens.
We never saw what Kyoko’s special ability is. Not that it matters or anything.
Special ability?
yea like Homura’s time control & Sayaka’s crazy regenration
It probably involved a praying position and possibly giant spears launching from the ground.
Or the ability to eat all she wants and never get fat >:(
Seppuku? But she exploded so.. Bakuhatsu no seppuku?
Gae Bolg from Lancer. XD
special ability must be somethings involve around her wishing for ppl to listen to her dad, maybe the praying she does before the suiside bombing ?
I thought Sayaka’s healing is like a bonus effect, and Homura’s basis of magic is the time manipulation. Not like every girl got a special ability or anything.
Well, since we never got to see if Mami had one either. What ability would she get for a second chance in life? Immortality?
probably a form of compulsion since we know what wish she made. Probably how she gets her food -> “Give me your apples”=receive apples
This episode felt more informative than anything else. Not even Kyoko’s death left an impression. All I can remember is Homura’s extraordinary turns. D:
Now with just her (and Madoka) left, what’s gonna happen. Kinda hard to predict since this show is so grim.
i hope we’ll get to know homura’s backstory in the next though. i’m kinda expecting it to get really angsty.
If only Homura is left, then a loop will happen.
Back to episode 1, that thing she fighting.
I just rewatched the early scene back in ep 1, and Ive been starting to have doubts about Madoka turning into a Mahou shoujo, and then into a witch.
Perhaps its just foreshadowing. Correct me if I’m wrong, thus mahou shoujo shows usually starts with foreshadowing of some future events? Cardcaptor Sakura has this kind of dream in the start of the series. I don’t know if other MS has that.
Madoka’s head getting bitten off doesn’t sound very nice. :1
well at least I was right about sayaka not being the witch in madoka’s dreams. I would have liked sayaka and kyoko to live longer though.
somehow, I dont think we’ve heard the last of those two…
“I dont think we’ve heard the last of those two”
I saw that lots & lots of time when Mami died
well mami was clearly killed. sayaka wasnt shown to be dead while kyoko’s soul gem shattered.
sayaka does have high regeneration powers so what if it was passed on to her witch form.
the other reason I believe so is because kyoko made a heroic sacrifice while mami just got caught off gaurd. it will make kyoko’s sacrifice needless, making it fit with the shows atmosphere.
Still evil.
The choice he offers is always an illusion. It’s never a fair, equitable choice given when the chooser could rationally make an appropriate, informed decision. It’s deliberately preying on vulnerable life-forms (to use an alien’s POV) without allowing them to know enough to make proper consent.
It’s a trick. The ability to say no is only a technically since all of the girls have been approached and asked to contract in times of distress, confusion, or fear. His “we don’t force you” defense is complete crap. Your ability to say no is manipulated away from you.
It makes me really eager to see what Madoka will do for the rest of the series; she’s managed to hold out but if she does contract, she will be the only one who will be able to do so from an informed position. But if she does, still it will be only because she’s being manipulated and bullied into it at every turn.
Yet some of ya’ll are giving it a pass?
If it were really offering an appropriate choice to girls, the offer would be stated as “Will you trade your life, family, happiness, and future for a wish to come true and maybe help the state of the universe (you’ll have to trust me on that part) for benefits you’ll never enjoy?”
Remember these girls had made wishes hoping for a good future and were allowed to believe in it yet they had not been told that in reality their choice denied them *any* future. Evil.
Er…. the ability is only a *technicality*…
No one is giving him a pass; lack of informed consent is a big violation in human ethics but we don’t exactly follow those rules in species to species interaction.
It’s self-preservation at its worst
Yeah I’ll have to stop you right there. You can’t seriously say that ALL humans everywhere use and destroy other species as we please. Especially when we have such groups as PETA and other animal rights and special interest groups sometimes putting animals over humans themselves. CNN has also reported that medically their are pet owners who have spent collectively nearly 20 BILLION dollars in the name of their pets health. This when their are people are facing bankruptcy and fore-closer due to their medical bills. We even have laws protecting animals. Can you seriously say we’re as bad as Kyuubee? His race is rather unified in their roll to use humans as cattle. no descent from what i can see. Humans have that shit all day, you are a great example for that. We even have humans who actually hate their own race and society because we “persecute” animals. There is even a law in my home states that says we are no longer allow to have our dogs outside tied up if we go on a trip we have to find them a place to stay. I’ve even seen people who want to build houses just for their animals. From where I see it people are much more willing to jump to an animals rescue then give another human being a few bucks to eat. Micheal Vick anyone? We even have people who will shoot to kill to protect “in dangered” animals and despise those who harm them. We see people killing each other everyday in the news and even simulate it in video games and movies. That’s just good entertainment right? I ask you, what’s more screwed up here?
You are right on that point; I’m thinking of something less sinister however, something like just eating meat or animal experimentation. Vegetarians and PETA are in the minority, and some may argue PETA is on the extreme side. I concur the human race has much more variety than KB’s fictional race, but hey, is it wrong for us to look out for our own species at the expense of others? I know people who would argue either way
“If you feel like dying for this universe, just call us at 1-800-KYU-BEY” ◕ ‿‿ ◕
I laughed so freaking hard. Both on this phrase and on the prospect that the overall universe treats humans as expendable like how humans treat beings lower than them as expendable. Karma is nice isn’t it.
LOL. Yeah, and it’s funny how he said that happily. XD
uhh Karma? Are you serious? Yeah because it’s not like animals eat each other and God forbid use each other for their own survival right? The food chain is a lie! Seriously, humans are freaking made to eat MEAT! Look at your teeth look at your own freaking evolutionary table. Why does Karma only apply to humans? Even when they are doing things that they were freaking made to do? Why does my cat get a pass for fucking up a mouse and I don’t for having a burger that’s probably not all cow anyway??
You know Misato was right:
“Humans are the only species that hates itself”
First of all, what an awesome episode, just when I thought I’m prepared well enough for another character death, I’m not…as if tears were coming off my eyes on how sad a scene it can be.
Then again KKYYYYUUUUUUUUUUBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
Listen to me, sooner or later we will be migrating to space, and we will built Gundams and Macross Valkyries heard me? We will cross folds and WARPs with our Gigantic Immigration Fleets and yeah once we find that despicable homeland of yours, we will blow and obliterate everyone of your kind and make it our own. Wait! There will be nothing there left, yeah but the satisfaction of wiping your species is their you despicable furball.
Again wait! Kyubei isn’t evil, he upholds the most logical reasons after all, still hell no! Using young girls for some greater cause? No matter what superior logic he has, wouldn’t the most logical approach in their problem is to develop their own emotion? Instead of being a parasite, then they aren’t any different from us, they have flaws on their own.
Enough rant!
Now that their are only 3 episodes left, I can’t help but screams sadness on how Madoka will finally end. Good things comes to an end. But its not all sadness though, their is happiness somewhere inside me, for anime is here to stay.
urobuchi said himself that he wanted to end the story with HOPE and DREAM. what he meant by that, i have no idea but i’m certain i’m gonna cry hard when it ends. T__T
Hope and Dreams from the perspective of Kyubei.
now we know what potentially makes Madoka the strongest Mahou Shoujo – she’s practically the most emotional.
well played sir
I think the real revelation here given the violation of entropy, is that in the madoka universe, perpetual-motion/infinite-energy devices are possible. So technically, anyone who has died so far can be “revived” by kyubei’s race. It’s a cop-out to say death is irreversible especially when you just destroyed physics.
well, the laws of physics never did contribute to good anime making. If it did, Gundam pilots and Code Geass would’ve died before it was conceived.
and boobs
^the jiggling defies physics
Oh yes, can’t forget those. <3
so basically you are saying talking magical creatures, little girls with magical powers, souls in a jar are believable but you draw the line when it comes to the Laws of Thermodynamics?… is a show, man…
besides Homura already established that once you died you cannot bring back the dead…
Lol, wait. she did say that didn’t she?
and yet shes using time travel to do exactly the opposite. To stop madoka from dieing! xD
btw didn’t kyuubey promise madoka she could bring back miki if she became a Majou Shoujo? im pretty sure death is just a indeterminate high entropy state to an alien like kyuubey.
If Kyoko really wanted to get Sayaka in touch with her human side, she should have brought along Kamijou instead (or in addition to) Madoka… Seeing witch Sayaka conducting a string orchestra nearly ripped me apart.
Calling Kyubei amoral would be more precise than “evil”. Actually, I could probably link him to some Lovercraftian gods (minus the horror), in the sense that to accomplish his goals he doesn’t care about humans, since he doesn’t understand them.
kyubei understand humans perfectly. and that is the ef’d up part, it will accomplish its goals even with full knowledge of how it affect humans.
well at least we finally see a better explanation to all things… but wait, one thing is not clear to me, did kyoko become a witch too? since she destroyed her own soul gem… and… sayaka? kamijou touma can blast her to smithereens with a right hand ALONE.
Hopefully that’s not the case. I think what Kyouko done is she use all the available energy she has on her soul gem and make it explode causing a massive blast. Basically she sacrifice herself to defeat Sayaka’s witch.
No, if they soul gem is destroyed, then the soul is gone…meaning Kyoko is dead. To become a witch you must tarnish the soul gem until it becomes a grief seed.
I know it’s a little off topic but if it lightens up anyone’s mood and you haven’t seen it already, here’s the Hand Drawn Opening Theme of Puella Magi Madoka Magica. I saw it today for the first time and got a good laugh. Kyuubey no ecchi!
OK…got a giggle out of that after thinking it was serious…
Oh my..that was a riot. Great find. 🙂
lmfao… that was brilliant.. XD
O.o made my day, or would have if my day wasn’t so unimaginably crappy. Still cheered me up alot lol.
being asked to do something without knowing the whole truth and being forced to do something is pretty much the same thing. plus, before being asked you are forced into a corner with an option that you can never say no to coz you’ve got no other choice. kyubei knew that what madoka and kyoko were trying to do wouldn’t work. how long has that thing been doing this? there is no way that no one else has done it before. kyubei could have said for certain that it wouldn’t work. kyoko and madoka could have came up with a different plan before they went head to head with sayaka.
I’m not sure I believe the entropy thing QB explains. It seems like too convenient an excuse. When witches were the problem, there was a real, visible threat to bring out the heroic side in the girls, along with the appeal of the wishes. As soon as they realize they become witches, suddenly the bigger problem of the universe ending years from now comes up and QB is a good guy again? Way too convenient for now. And apparently, QB is an alien (why can’t things just be magic anymore?).
Pointless death is pointless. It was not necessary at all for Kyoko to die and for the writers to corner Homura into a tight spot.
No it’s not pointless, its all part of Kyubei’s master plan, see with only homura left and that big witch event coming very soon, Kyubei is even mocking Homura about it. It’s like let’s see who’s gonna have the last laugh because Kyubei is confident that Madoka will become an MS. Thinking about it, its even possible that he engineered the coming of the powerful witch for that matter
My take on it was that she saw her old self in Sayaka and sympathized with her enough to feel like she had to put an end to her being a witch and that she herself didn’t want to go through the same thing when she realized that there was no way that they could be saved from turning into witches hence the suicide takedown.
for kyoko, her sacrifice wasn’t pointless. she wants sayaka not to be alone (ETC….) so she took herself with sayaka.
Kyouko’s death may be even more “pointless” if: Show Spoiler ▼
If that turns out to be true, I will headdesk so hard I’ll need to get stitches.
I totally agree with your point about comparing aliens to us humans. While we as emotional beings see this as sick and sadistic, to non-emotional beings this is just the logical way of going about things. Also what Kyuubei said about how we humans go about blaming the other party once something goes wrong, i think it hit it home for me at seeing him in a different light. I still think the little white monster is a jerk, but from the standpoint that they simply see things in a different light as us humans, it’s hard to judge them.
i agree. and that’s why it is difficult to tell if he/they are/is really evil or not. we can’t judge him since for all we know, what he’s doing might be right on how he looked at it.
R.I.P Kyouko, your death will not be in vain. – Kyuubei
That jibaku attack is awesome anyways.
only 2 main character left, with 3 eps to go.
wanna see how they’ll make it.
i think the fact that this alien is from the future and (i believe so) has been doing this for quite some years now should merit the argument that these aliens know absolutely what they are doing and that the “since they are aliens they can never understand human beings” excuse is pure bs. if they had enough time to make time machines and break down emotions to convert it to energy, they should have had time to learn and “create” emotions themselves.
This logic is flawed. Just because we are told they are far more technically advanced and are able to achieve goal A, does not mean you can assume they are able to achieve goal B.
Also, entropy-wise, it is easier to convert a pre-existing article i.e. emotions in this case into energy than it is to create emotions out of energy. Furthermore, as a ‘higher’ form of sentient life, why would you go to the trouble of learning/developing something when you can just harvest it from a ‘lower’ form of life. This exists in the way humans treat animals so is not completely unbelievable.
The emotion thing is a failure of an excuse. Also emotions do not come from energy. They are a chemical reaction
An advanced race could do the following
i) Clone humans and rear as cattle
ii) Utilise other animals who obviously experience fear
iii) Manufacture the chemical reaction in a lab
“this logic is flawed”? really? when you yourself is just going by assumptions as well? i guess they’ll just have to adress this issue.
when you can talk to a pig/cow/chicken or whatever into killing itself so you can eat it, let me know.
@Zaku Fan
I don’t know if you’re arguing against me or not =S because you’re saying what I was suggesting i.e. you can utilise other races to achieve your goals. Assuming you are arguing, String Theory suggests at a micro-micro level EVERYTHING is made out of energy ‘strings’ and that includes said chemical reactions therefore you can break it down into useable energy given the relevant technology.
@Kyouzo
Actually, entropy suggests iirc something like ‘All pre-existing tangible objects have a tendency to convert itself into a more chaotic form’. Which basically means it would be easier to convert feelings (bio-chemical reactions) into raw energy than it is to create emotions. OFC this only applies with the right tech which QB is already using. Not an assumption.
And fair enough, I can’t really talk cattle into killing themselves for the greater good but that’s not to say I won’t use them for my own survival. I can parallel the similarities between QB and the characters with Human and cattle especially taking into consideration animal rights but that would make this faaar too long – Do not want to read etc.
TL:DR I’m just suggesting that its not COMPLETELY bs as there is enough ambiguity to warrant the benefit of the doubt.
Sorry string theory has no proof even though it has been around for what? A decade?
Also the energy is the vibration of the dimensional membranes, not the string itself. Hence you would only be correct if you said everything is made up of strings.
That said, chemical reactions are infinitely easier to manipulate than strings/higgs bosons/whatever unified theory, only the order and process of the reaction is of any difficulty.
RIP Kyoko 🙁
Am I the only one who thinks this was the weakest eposide in terms of execution?
The flow of the story seems a bit off and the suspense of Kyoko’s death wasn’t as dramatic as I thought it should be
Also, what’s up with Kyoko’s kamikaze? Was she not strong enough to silenced Majou Sayaka without sacrifising herself? That seemed very unlikely considering the fact that Sayaka wasn’t exactly the most powerful or seasoned Mahou Shoujo. Plus, even if Majou Sayaka is that much stronger, Homura did appear on time to save Madoka and they could have taken her on together.
Odd, I say
Do remember that she had been defending Madoka for a while before that, so she’s not at top condition.
In the interview, they said that all Mahou Shoujos have different fighting styles. Kyoko is linked to be more of a glass cannon type MS. So she couldn’t take the beaten, when she was defending herself and madoka.
Mami’s special was a single shot finale, that’s why she got her head bitten off with charlee.
Sayaka’s was super regeneration, she can take a beaten like a tank.
Homura has strong magic, time stop, but has weak combatant abilities. That’s why she was teaming up with Kyoko for the WN.
Even so, Homura was in top condition and she could have taken on Majou Sayaka instead
Just throw in a couple of grenades and machine guns… easy pizy
It seems like the writers just needed a convenient reason to get rid of Kyoko
And the way it was executed could have been much better
Homura already knew what Kyoko was planning to do. Taking down Sayaka with both of them would be simple. However, Kyoko wanted to handle it herself thus the barrier to prevent Homura from stopping her. Since Madoka was injured and is Homura’s top priority, she left it to Kyoko. In the end, it was Kyoko’s decision to die with Sayaka rather than an inability to win.
Kyoko already mentioned that if the plan to return Sayaka did not work, she would end it. With the end point of being a witch now clear to her, seeing Sayaka as herself when she was young and realizing she has killed many young girls, sacrificing herself to die together with Sayaka is not difficult to understand
Oh well, I supposed we’re dealing with a bunch of teenage girls over here…
People, please don’t throw away your lives so easily!
Death is becoming too predictable in this series… I supposed Homura is next in line
I think Kyuubey’s “inability to understand humans” is a lack of Why, not How. It’s pretty clear that he knows how to manipulate people like crazy, and his chat with Homura at the end is a very solid piece of evidence in favour of this. However, I don’t think he’s actually lying when he says he doesn’t understand, mostly because due to his lack of human emotion (emphasis HUMAN, since he’s an alien).
Also, the space-entropy thing is kinda silly, though I guess I sorta get what they’re trying to pull. If wood is being burnt, it creates heat, light and expended material (charcoal). The problem is that even though you’re getting the energy from it, I think the Kyuubey race’s issue is that they haven’t figured out how to make use of the expended material other than disposing of it. So instead, they tap into the illogical energies from emotions (even Kyuubey admits as much) and harvest that.
Still, if you’re just thinking Entropy itself, the logic gets screwy. Entropy is just the natural inclination for stuff to get scattered/messy/disordered/random. That, and I honestly have no idea how the energy gathered from even a hundred angsty teenage girls could compensate for a single solar system’s entropy. Not to mention that…y’know…you kinda run into the EXACT SAME PROBLEM with MGs?
– There appear to be two harvest sources: the transformation energy (think fission) and the grief seed.
– The seed itself contains the core energy of a witch, and can store additional “angst energy” from a Soul Gem.
– Since the Grief Seed as a whole is technically made of nothing but emotional energy, I’m guessing that Kyuubey can get a better % yield out of it than he could out of…say…thermodynamics.
The problem is this: MGs and Witches both expend tons of energy while fighting. Witches themselves harvest humans as well. Isn’t there still a ton of waste in this process? Does Kyuubey actually catch all the energy flying around? Because if this process isn’t 100% efficient – heck even if it’s as much as 99.999….% efficient – then isn’t this whole thing just defeating the purpose of the action and doing little more than delaying the inevitable?
Isn’t entropy more akin to unusable energy in a system? I’d think MG energy violates the 1st law and creates energy. If a MG can pull out a lot of energy out of nowhere (one could say an MG is unlikely to create such a large amount of energy, but it’s unlikely something such as * emotions * produce energy to begin with and we’re not shown that it’s necessarily a reasonably…reasonable amount of energy), then the process doesn’t need to be 100% efficient, does it? Just as long as the energy created is immense enough to cover for everything from their fighting to raising all those harvested humans to whatever their age might be.
After rewatching the beginning of the episode…it’s also possible that turning MG energy into other forms doesn’t cause a loss of energy, and so regardless of efficiency they just need to procure enough of it so sentient beings can live off it? Something like that.
The heatdeath of the universe would be a serious problem for an advanced space-faring species. Kyubey’s example basically states that when you apply work to a system, that system in return is only able to utilize a percentage of that. The rest is lost to heat due to inefficiency that can never be overcome. Entropy itself, can only become a serious problem when you reach the stage in technology where you are as efficient as physically possible. I agree that emotions are an illogical place for thermodynamically unrestrained energy to come from, but its a suspension of belief i’m willing to make. But it makes sense that he is looking for such energy. Since it is unentropic, it is perpetual, able to do work without ever expending wasted heat.
Because of this, you don’t have to even worry about where the energy to preform magic comes from. It’s more like kyubey unlocking a unlimited source of potential. Similarly I don’t think he actually cares about the efficiency of the extraction process, since all he really want are the seeds for his own species (and the universe). He can afford to increase the entropy of a localized region of the universe, since in return hes getting perpetual energy.
superior oranges… I want some of that… incubator(s) does have a valid point, although not accepted by human morals.
I think they might heading to a replay of the intro with Homura fighting alone… it is true that people will feel trolled if Madoka doesn’t end up as a magic girl, but it would be equally bad if she ends up as one, i.e. eventually become the super witch, and a possible endless loop.
as for Kyoko’s death, I take that as her redeeming act… pointless or not, it serves its purpose. you will be remembered, Kyoko.
So, anyone good toward Madoka end up dead.
THIS.
and just when kyoko became finally friends with madoka…*sigh*
They better don’t pull a ” all my dead friends will grant me power ” style.
or make QB become an “Aizen” or a goody pet.
lmfao! I don’t think that’ll happen. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they poked fun at the concept. Too bad the only one that actually would do that is dead now.
So ultimately the decision will come to Madoka: heed Homura’s words and don’t become a Puella Magi, only to see everything fall apart in front of her eyes, or to become a PM and save the city, only to be trapped into becoming the strongest witch ever and hence an even greater treat.
sigh… just when Kyouko became likable, she had to bite the dust. Few more epi to go, wonder how it will all turn out by the end. Really cant predict anything in this anime (in a good sense), keep it up SHAFT.
a very emotional episode. i can’t help but feel so sad about kyoko dying as well. T__T but it’s really touching that she wanted to stay by sayaka’s side, choosing to take herself too. TTT____TTT i like kyoko. she even finally had become friends with madoka..but too bad..T___T i feel so bad. kyoko’s determination to save sayaka was the best thing about this episode for me.
that said, i’m kinda happy she has sayaka with her in the ‘afterlife'(if there’s one foe them) and yeah, sayaka x kyoko ftfw!!! XD
homura’s facade faltered a bit in here and it’s a nice thing to see. it only meant that she cared about kyoko.T__T but heck!! she’s the only remaining MG now which tells that madoka’s dream is gonna happen. DX ohgawd, i dunno what’s gonna happen after that.
btw, GAWD. QB..fellah, i dunno what to think of you.
“If you feel like dying for this universe, just call us. We’ll be waiting!”
but yeah, i guess you’re really amoral unless you’re definitely lying about anything you say(albeit i get this feeling that you ain’t lying at all). *sigh*
in any case though, i believe QB’s the best ‘villain'(?) i’ve ever heard of.XDD
EXCELLENT EPISODE!!!
now, give mah ep 10!!!
seems like the show questions on things like moral and ethics.. looking at how things are
For some reason, I can see topics relating to people’s beliefs and ultimately God and Religion.
After 9 eps, I think we should collaborate on a document called ‘The Puella Magi Handbook’. Who wants to help me with this?
Something like the Death Note? haha, I am amused and would like to entertain such an idea. ^_^/
not a death note, but rather an instructional guide to becoming a Puella Magi, its responsibilities and benefits, etc. Then we’ll send it to the Puella Magi Wiki for review. You has a twitter?
I don’t tweet.
I see. I think I shall make a document by next week (draft) then we’ll add some details in it. Is it okay for you?
Sounds like fun. :]
I’d be pretty interested in this subject. If you need any help, my email’s: raptix12@yahoo.com
Pacific_Lethean@hotmail.com
Sounds like fun
kwantum0@gmail.com
Okay, I’m sorry for the ruckus. I have been busy for my finals. I;ll get your emails and direct you to my Google Docs, so please check your inbox. Thanks!
Damnit. I knew how this was going to end. I saw all the death flags for Kyoko before and during this episode. And yet I kept wishing I was wrong, because I really liked how Kyoko developed. Still seeing her final moments was moving and at least she isn’t condemned to become a witch. I hate being right.
She should just wish for something the Incubator can’t grant.
To change the universe to negate the very need for creating new Magical Girls and thus witches.
THIS.
but i see her not ready to be an MG yet. >.>
9bee did say something about Madoka being able to rewrite laws of physics if she were to be contracted, but.
i forgot to mention how i love seeing homura flipping her hair. <3
Did Kyoko had to die? Let me leave this. I got it from /u/:
Kyouko was the daughter of a preacher who made a wish to help her father with his dream and save her family from the difficulties they were going through (i.e. starvation). She also said this episode that the reason she became a magical girl was because of stories where love and courage somehow miraculously win the day. That she forgot all about that after the tragedy with her family until she met Sayaka which reminded her of that.
Consider now that she knows her fate is to become like Sayaka one day, completely lose herself to grief and turn into a destructive witch, just as her father once accused her of being. She wants to try fighting it, see if the love and courage could actually win, which is why she brings Madoka to see Sayaka.
During the fight, Kyouko takes tremendous damage, maybe dying. She believes she’s about to die and prays to God before she does, let her see at least one happy dream. Que Homura to save Madoka, holding her as they gently descend to the ground. Kyouko believes that’s the happy dream she prayed to see…to protect the one thing that you really want to protect, to the very end.
At this point, Kyouko has two choices: One, she could ask Homura to help but then risk the unconscious Madoka dying, thereby risking Homura losing her happy dream. At best, all Kyouko could look forward to is a future where she spends a long time mourning over Sayaka, recuperating from injury (too injured to help Homura a few days from now with Walpurg night) and knowing that her inevitable fate is to become a witch unless she dies first. She may realize she could risk losing herself to grief or find herself unable to kill witches now that she knows they use to be like Sayaka. Either way, she’d die alone with a sad end.
Knowing all this, Kyouko makes another choice: Use what’s left of her life to help protect Madoka and make her choice to leave the earth while she’s human and has love and courage in her heart. She doesn’t want Sayaka to die alone…and Kyouko will be there with her. Kyouko may still believe in God and heaven and that they’ll both be in heaven after this.
My interpretation is this was an act of love, but one that is spiritual and completely appropriate for the once idealistic daughter of a preacher. I’m not ashamed to say I wept over it.
For those that think Kyubei is not evil, if the world is destroyed, is he evil? If he wipes out 6 billion people and leaves 10, is he evil? If someone sees you bleeding to death then looks at you for hours in curosity until you die, is he evil?
Whether he is a different species is not an excuse. Good/evil FOR humans has always been defined BY humans thus humans are the only species that holds authority on good/evil as defined by humans. We do not ask cows if something is good or evil aka moo once for good, twice for evil. We do not consider good and evil from a cow’s persepective else many mass murderers would not be evil as the cow would happily say its justice. Unless one is prepared to say a certain german dictator in WW2 is not evil.
Next up is the ridiculous idea that the universe needs help. The heat death of the universe is estimated at 10 trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years. 1 with 100 zeros
The age of the univers is 13 billion years. Thats 13 with 9 zeros. If humans survive another 13 billion years, we would be jumping dimensions at will Star Trek Q style and STILL have more than 9 with 99 zeros of time left.
Funny you mention Star Trek. To put an analogy, the Borg attack and assimilate sentient life because they are alien with different morals. Should they get a free pass? Heck no.
Kyubee has deliberately manipulated little children to die for some obscure rewards that the girls never have any hope of having. Of course humanity should be compelled to despise and resist him, if they knew the truth. Humanity is a sentient thinking species capable of making decisions, so I don’t buy his whole “you can just die for everyone” shtick.
Tell you what:
Humans are sentient life forms. Capable of reasoning, constructive cooperation and destructive confrontations.
When one is sentient one is given the right, unspoken, to choose his own “path” and “justice”. Whether it’s to massacre and rape kids, or give up your life for them is all up to you. The problem is that since all have “free will” and “freedom” that grants this own “path” and “justice”. When two conflicting ideas collide, what do you think happens. If the two of us vie for a position at a job we both want wouldn’t it be better if I have it? You’d think the world will be better if you have it right?
Welcome to the world. A world where “freedom” = “war” and “free will” = “trials”. Death and shame is the rewards of the weak, and the strong survives to die another day….
You are looking at Kyubei’s actions from a human standpoint… “They” are look at Kyubei’s actions from “Kyubei” standpoint. That’s the difference, and the difference in opinion on which point of view we should take isn’t really worth debating.
I am aware of that view, which is why i already pointed out that good/evil is a human construct for humans by humans = humans make the view not non-humans (aka cow example to show).
The funny thing about using the viewpoint of aliens is this.
The masterminds in Bokurano are perfectly good to themselves.
The anti-spirals are perfectly good to themselves.
Both would have destroyed all humanity but they are perfectly good.
Then we have even more fun when we use said viewpoint on examples of history. I’m sure asking many of the leaders in genocide if they view themselves as evil or good would come up in only 1 answer then said answer would have many rationalizations 🙂
If Kyoko kept living, she would have to kill witches to cleanse her Soul Gem while knowing what they really are and/or she’d have to live knowing that she’ll become a witch one day. So she chose to end her life(if it can really be called living anyway) by her own hands along with Sayaka, since she’s the one who brought Kyoko back to her senses. I think it’s a justified death..
I believe all that talk about entropy is just extra. In the end, they have a miracle granted for them that would otherwise never be fulfilled. That’s really all that matters. Even in Mami’s case, she had her “life” saved and she did have a sense of fulfillment when she saved people as a Mahou Shoujo. Sayaka may have suffered and looked really bad, but that’s just the price for having her wish granted. While we feel the pain when she can’t get together with that guy(I can’t remember the names of small fry characters), keep in mind that she wished for him to get better, and not to be with him. And let’s not forget she would not have turned into a witch if she used the Grief Seeds. None of them really died for the universe at all since they chose to become a Mahou Shoujo in exchange for a miracle. I think we all know(by now, for sure) that miracles don’t come cheap.
If you look at this logically, there is nothing bad about Kyubei at all, since he grants them a miracle in exchange for that energy. Even if they aren’t in their real bodies, and they do turn into witches in the end, there is nothing sick about it..if there weren’t that, wouldn’t there be TWO miracles? Where you have your miracle granted, and you get to enjoy being a Mahou Shoujo free of charge. In fact, is it really that bad? Your soul is still your own. Like Kyoko or Mami, you can still live perfectly normally without that knowledge. Actually, simply knowing that doesn’t really change anything..to sum it up, what really happens when you get Kyubei-ed is just that you get a miracle in exchange for the possibility of eventually becoming a witch. It’s totally possible to continue living as a Mahou Shoujo like Kyoko did. If I had a say in it, I’d say it was more than a fair deal.
Still, I’m wondering about when it’s mentioned that they will eventually become witches. If they just keep their Soul Gem clean, wouldn’t they be able to “live” forever? Perhaps it’s because their sense of time is different, so Kyubei believes that eventually they will get tired of living as a Mahou Shoujo, which is when they become witches. Otherwise, they’d have to suffer some form of emotional damage that stops them from using the Grief Seeds, use too much magical power while being unable to beat a witch, or maybe they keep getting KSed till they become witches. Well, we can also say that if there are no witches, the Mahou Shoujos wouldn’t be able to clean their Soul Gems. But it wouldn’t become dirtied if they don’t use magical power..maybe it does, gradually?
I still like Homura the most. Especially the part about her that completely denies her existence as a human, and lives as such. And her consistent efforts to stop Madoka from trading her life(I don’t mean the object itself, but her life as Madoka in her happy family) for a friend.
I don’t feel like talking about Madoka. She just doesn’t really have a personal reason to become a Mahou Shoujo at all..but for Mami, Sayaka and now(probably) Homura.
I think the process of turning into witches is inevitable. Regardless their efforts to clean their soul gems (doing that will just slow it down) and/or not using magics + keep herself from being depress, when the time that a magi fully mature, she will just turn into a witch no matter what.
Sign… with that kind of end waiting for you no matter how good you do your job, I’m not surprise to see Kyouko choose to die with Sayaka instead of just give her a mercy kill.
For her Soul Gem to be completely devoid of darkness, Kyouko would have to block out all her emotions, as we know from Sayaka that being emotional hastens your Soul Gem fading and considering Kyouko seemed to be somewhat hotheaded, I can imagine that she would have had to fight frequently to avoid becoming a Witch. Plus, we don’t know if actually living itself would cause the Soul Gem to fade as it’s probably a magical process as well and thus draws power from the Soul Gem.
However, she didn’t have super-fast healing powers like Sayaka does/did, so there’d probably come a time where her opponent would get the best of her. We saw that she had a hard time fighting off Witch Sayaka already, especially he she had to defend Madoka from harm as well, so even if she could have finished Sayaka off without dying, she would eventually die from her injuries anyway or become a Witch before that (which is probably a fate worse than death).
Seeing as how Sayaka was beyond saving, Kyouko had little choice but to die right there and take Sayaka with her, so that (at least from Kyouko’s POV) both girls would find the true happiness they longed after.
“If you feel like dying for the universe, give us a call”
Lol I love that line
And Kyoko dies. You know some say that series were nobody dies are predictable, but many series were everybody can die become series were almost everybody does die and the deaths are just as predictable.
Anyway regarding ethics. Let’s assume that for once kyuubei isn’t lying. “We ask you to make a contract, not force you” is bullshit, the alien is basically a con artist, he tricks people in accepting something when they are in distress and hides the important part of the contract from them.
And justifying his action because “the ends justify the means” doesn’t work because there are simple alternatives. You have technological superior alien race and you need emotions? A) create a species which only exists to produce strong emotions. B) find a species which has them. They opted for B and then created a silly magical girl system. Come on. There are other options, like contacting the humans and using an ancient art called trading. I’m sure after the initial panic and maybe an useless attempt to attack the aliens, we would happily set up a system to give them emotions in return for a)miracle or b) technology. (Though if the aliens aren’t stupid they shouldn’t trade technology.)
I’m sure they could create a better system than the crap with witches and magical girls.
(Note: I wouldn’t call kyuubei evil. I think it’s a meaningless word. But I would apply our moral system to an alien race. I don’t expect them to share it. And I wouldn’t necessarily think they are “bad” for breaking it. I would just feel justified to stop them if they started harming us. I consider ethics as an indicator for situations where we can or should interfere in someone else’s business.)
Sadly, I have to agree with some of the above posters that this episode feels much weaker compared to the previous ones. And this is irregardless of the logic/science behind Kyubei’s MG recruitment process.
Yes, death flags were ringing for Kyouko, and while all that was fine and well executed, at the end it just seemed as if her death was inevitable for the sake of continuing the storyline, to corner Homura for the upcoming Walpurgis night.
In fact, it makes Homura look so much stupider for someone who came from the future. While things that may have happened in her original timeline probably wouldn’t have played out in the same manner as what is happening in this current timeline, the actions that Homura chooses to take doesn’t seem to contribute to her intended outcomes:
1. Withholding the truth about Soul Gems turning into Grief Seeds from the other girls after the bridge incident when trust for Kyubei was at its lowest;
2. Choosing NOT to take out Sayaka the moment she turned into a witch, or even after meeting Madoka on the railway tracks, before the next day began;
3. and at the very end, not offering to convince Kyouko not to end her life and take her place in killing Sayaka so that she could help out in Walpurgis night and prevent a greater tragedy from happening.
Maybe Homura has a specific restriction on the things she can affect in the current timeline, but until such an explanation occurs, it just makes her character much weaker than the rest, who enjoy much less screen time than her, and yet appear to be more well developed.
Off-screen scene in hell…
Show Spoiler ▼
QB is zigzagging all over the moral spectrum. I think I shall just content myself with hate filled understanding lest I go as mad as this show.
Kyouko’s (likely) death really hurt after all the developement she got turned her from a hated character into my favorite.
Best line of the episode remains “When you feel like dying for this univers, just call me”. QB is the telemarketer troll from hell.
I’m kind of sad that Kyoko died and Sayaka couldn’t be saved, but at the same time I’m ok with it.
Kyubei truly is a magnificent bastard…. He never lies, but never really tells the truth, at the great expense of both Sayaka’s and Kyoko’s life. Although he is definitely in the grey area of morality, and I certainly hate him, I can see his cause for doing these things (unless, of course, he outright lied to Madoka about EVERYTHING). With three episodes left, I’m curious as to what will happen, as I assume that Walpurgis Nacht won’t roll around immediately and take up three whole episodes…..
BTW, IS: Infinite Stratos has become my pick-me-up after I watch this wonderful series
When I saw Sayaka’s witch realm, I can’t help but feel sad on how much she had to shoulder and how much despair she had let loose. The character design of Witch Sayaka and her realm is a total mind-rape, imagine an orchestra conducted by a witch with a character design like that = nightmare. If I’m going to compare it with other witch realm, I prefer Charlotte’s realm, its cute and childish.
Charlotte – “I love cheese, I want only cheese, there is no cheese anywhere”
Sayaka – “look at me” “love me do \(-3-)/”
Charlotte for the win!
PS: As for Witch Gertrud – I wouldn’t even try to explain her world, so abstract. I can’t say the same things for Kirsten and Elsa Maria, as there realms wasn’t explored as extensive compare to the other three
Anyone else thinks that if madoka becomes a mahou shoujo, her wish is to bring back her friends from the dead? or something. But that would kinda suck.
I was so desperate that I watched the episode in Live Stream even when my Japanese is pretty limited. It’s a first for me! Anyway, I agree that Kyoko’s sacrifice can come up a little dull but it was inevitable. I mean, she was obviously going to try to rescue Sayaka because she pitied her. She was attoning for the mistake of not doing more for her and didn’t mind risking her life. What I’m afraid is that blue/red whirl that made the ilussion that witch!Sayaka might have absorbed Kyoko or something. Hope is just my imagination. Or maybe those were lesbian undertones placed for the lolz.
About witch!Sayaka, that was a pretty cool dungeon design. A concert and throwing train wheels! I loved the part when she was Mermaid-Knight and there was Kamijou standing there, like he was directing everything and he did, because he was the main driving force behind Sayaka’s actions. It’s maybe is just me but I want that as my wallpaper. On next episode: Madoka reaches Shinji Ikari’s emo levels and goes insane, triggering the action (Walpurgis Night?) that made Homerun leap to the past.
Yeah, I kinda wish we could get to know the other girls who became witches so we could understand their bubbles, too!
Let us say that Kyuubey’s words are true, that there is a constant loss of energy in the universe. In such case, it is a must to replace this lost energy.
The question is, how much energy does the universe lose constantly?
If I were to make a guess, I’d say that the amount of energy generated from average witches is not enough for Kyuubey to save this universe.
Otherwise, his persistent contractual temptations for Madoka can only be justified if Kyuubey is lazy and wants to have a rest for a period of time. Another reason could be that Madoka’s rare appearance is part of their calculation. For an example, a girl with a potential for being a super Mahou Shoujo does only appear once a thousand years.
so how come some are disappointed for finding out Kyubey is a sentient lifeform not from Earth.
It clearly breaks all needed questions, everything.
I mean in every show you always this source of power, a supernatural being not supposed to be found on our Planet but Madoka has broken that, just like at what happened with Evangelion, the source of something not supposed to be on our planet is really something that’s not.
Now, you won’t need questions like, “Why does he have that ability? Where did it come from? or Where DID HE come from? his origin? those questions are deemed meaningless bec. Kyubey really is not of this world and it feels like the world of Madoka Magica is just a normal “Earth” where in Kyubey has stepped upon.
anyways
very nice episode, the last part where Kyouko sacrificed herself is the highlight for me, i can’t stop feeling sad, the swirl of emotions, sadness, anger and anxiety, i’m also feeling it.
This anime will just be too hard to defeat and i can see Gen, Shinbo and Kajiura doing another project like this, that’s what i’m betting.
and for those who are in mixed feelings with the revelation of Kyubey, kindly read the summary of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saya_no_uta
you have another “sentient life form here”
and it is written by our wonderful Urobuchi Gen, and for those who don’t know him, he’s one who’s supplying us with mindfuck episodes every week with his story and script of Puella Magi Madoka Magica ^^
Yeah, I don’t understand the disappointment because the definition of alien or extra-terrestrial life is (according to my quick research on wiki):
“(from the Latin words: extra (“beyond”, or “not of”) and terrestris (“of or belonging to Earth”)) is defined as life that does not originate from Earth. Hypothetical forms of extraterrestrial life range from simple bacteria-like organisms to sapient beings far more advanced than humans. It is unknown whether any such forms of life exist or ever existed.”
So technically, whether its demons or monsters like Elsie from “world God only knows, or the Youkais from Rosario to Vampire or the Mages form Mahou Sensei Negima, their definition are that “they are aliens” from the very beginning, so why are people getting all fuss?
some people are actually complaining about the entropy stuff and QB being an alien to be so out of left field. xD and they dislike how it went from medieval witchcraft feel into a sci-fi one. XD it’s funny how they whine over it knowing that this revelation just logically explains qb’s Ignorance to human morality and emotions. that said, i kinda hope QB’s just lying about this entropy stuff.
I think I may be missing some points regarding that physics stuff, I’ll research about it later, it sucks when you start forgetting things.
But at least I understand that Kyubei is from an alien race, so I’m expecting that whatever he says is completely irrelevant for us. I’m expecting that “we” as humans as much as Kyubei wouldn’t understand each other. Our relationship with him is like how humans care about other lesser beings below us, the animals. They are expendable but we care for them because we need them to survive.
Gonna go now. More later.
I feel so sorry for poor InQBator’s civilization… unable to feel any emotions. Do not worry though, Imperium of Mankind will relieve them from their fate, In extremis exterminatus!
Seriously though, some observations…
RIP Kyoko, you were a good friend. So long and thanks for all the snacks!
Homura will rater die fighting alone than force Madoka to become MG.
Madoka, if she has any common sense left, should avoid that too, after all she witnessed results herself. She has a family to live for.
About the only thing QB can tempt Madoka with is bringing back her friends to life… but that one wish is probably out of question.
The science part in me calls BS. At least what I learned in physics is that one of the Thermodynamic laws state that entropy is increasing in the universe. I saw the rationale as just Kyubey trying to BS Madoka with a lot of big words and concepts that a middle school girl would not know.
One other thing I thought of when Kyubey said they converted emotional energy into power, why not boys? Sure maybe pubescent girls have a lot of stress, but males do too. I’m sure the cast of Hourou Musuko or Simon from TTGL would make great Mahou shounens. Hell, we have a great example of a kick ass Masou Shoujo in another series.
Don’t you worry they are aliens, so maybe they are trying to interpret their technology in terminologies that make sense to humans
About the “why the girls and not the boys” Kyubei seems to be always in the right place and in the right time when a young girl is in dire need to make contract, my personal theory will be somewhat based on the anime TV series ‘Ghost Hunt’ on how young girls in puberty can display very strong psychic/supernatural tendencies when face with the direst of situations hence the ability to sense/see Kyubei, of which is an existence that is supernatural by itself. Of course Kyubei is more than happy to see them, its how he makes MS
I think you missed the whole point.
On that entropy bit, at least.
What did I miss? That is it BS science? Well, it’s also my general belief that physics doesn’t make sense, and to see physics in my anime is super confusing.
Right now, I’m rationalizing it as they live in an alternate universe where entropy decreases so aliens like Kyubey exist and Japan has super technology like digital glass, holograms and classroom seats/workstations that sink into the floor.
1) Entropy exists in that universe, and it’s increasing, and 2) they’re looking for some source of energy that isn’t bound by thermodynamic principles that apparently is generated by human emotions?
1) is valid, if wrongly worded on their part, and 2)…well, willing suspension of disbelief?
I’m pretty sure that Madoka will be the witch that triggers Walpurgisnacht! Without her, no Walpurgisnacht. If we take this as granted, is killing Madkoa before she transforms ethic as well as sacrificing one’s emotional power to the universe?
Do the aliens have long term plans for humanity? If they are really worried about the heat death of the universe they have to think in long,long time scales. (You know in a few (6,5)billion years our sun will turn in a red giant. That’s 6,5*10^9 years. If we are talking about the heat death add about 91 more zeros).
One day we will a) reach their technological level b) die. In both cases it would be hard too keep harvesting our emotions. They could try to keep our technology level low, without killing us. But doing that for a few billion year would be quite hard. If they can’t create emotions without humans, why don’t they just kidnap or clone a few humans?
And if they think in gigantic time scales wouldn’t adding additional energy also slowly increase the mass of the universe and if the mass becomes big enough wouldn’t that cause big crunch?
Anyway I hope kyubei was just lying to trick madoka.
Remember the dream on the first episode? It was a premonition, people! Madoka is going to make the contract, she has to!
I’m liking how this show is taking a turn for the epic, I’m also seeing the Gurren Lagann similarities, although Kyubei is a lot cuddlier than the anti-spirals
While Kyubei might have a nobel goal, he is still an jerk. At the end of the episode it seemed that he gave Kyoko false hope in saving Sayaka even though he knew it was impossibe to save her just so Kyoko would die and give Madoka no other choice but to become a Mahou Shoujo.
One day I’ll understand why so many people are inclined to believe the ramblings of a treacherous, murderous sentient rat as if they were gospel. Even you, Takaii.
This whole “aliens worrying about the entropy of the universe” spiel was so ridiculously bogus that I can’t for the life of me fathom why so few people seem to be falling for this BS.
I’ll agree that QB has shot all his credibility at this point. Still they spent 4 mins on that scene, it would seem a bit odd its odd that such long exposition would be a red herring.
I still like the scene if only because Madoka declared QB as “the enemy”. It’s basically the nicest way for her to say “**** you” to that manipulative bastard.
Will they really censore Puella Magi Madoka Magica?? I’ve heard that in Japan they’re seriously thinking to stop airing PMMM ‘coz of its contents… It’ll be such a shame.. Obviously this is not an anime for babies, not a “standard” shoujo anime. It’s more dark than ever… but that’s why I (and all of us i guess) luv it.. feels sooooo sad to wait to know its destiny..
Actually, he is unable to feel. He does not have emotion like humans. That is one of the reasons he cannot understand human reactions completely even though he uses the reactions for energy. He is just comepletely and utterly rational. Emotions distract us from being completely rational and making the “right” decisions. Like if killing 100 would save a billion, rationally that would be best. But if the 100 were your family and friends and their families, and the billion were people you never knew and would never know, emotion and sediment would get in the way of being rational. Self-preservation is another thing to consider here. Kill or be killed. Witches with grief seeds are actually mahou shoujo transformed into witches and familiars transformed into witches don’t have grief seeds, or that is what I think. So in order to survive, you have to kill off another human. Or you become someone who kills humans anyway. Two choices, kill by choice or kill by force. Self-preservation is a very powerful thing that is rooted into our systems. Examples include inability to drown yourself without tying yourself to a large rock, eating other people to survive. It is part of nature and emotion does not apply and rationalism applies instead. Emotions are only nurtured when there is time, peace of mind and living conditions suffice. Maslow’s hierarchy of needs anyone? People die all the time. But if some nameless person were to die now, you would not feel any change, not in the atmosphere, not in your body nor mind. If that death were to serve a greater purpose like saving the universe, why not? But people have names, and sayaka died and being a friend of madoka, madoka would feel grief. She would naturally think it unfair and be concerned over it. But lets say sayaka did not have a name and you did not know her or madoka, her death would not concern you in the least. What I’m trying to say here is that people die and there is too many people on earth anyway. We pollute, we destroy, we rein over, and we kill for power and fun. I don’t see why a death of someone should concern us so much anymore after World War 2. If you dislike the idea of people being manipulated and lives being treated like tools or indifferently by others, you should rethink stepping on insects and eating animals.
I honestly don’t buy QB’s whole doesn’t understand emotions. He can clearly make use of emotional manipulation. Like making Sayaka an MG the moment of her emotional duress, or how he took advantage of Kyoko’s desire to save Sayaka. All this of course, is to guilt trip Madoka to become an MG. He clearly knows what he is doing.
Also, Kyubee is manipulating actual sentient beings, comparing them our treatment of insects and animals is weak.
“I don’t see why a death of someone should concern us so much anymore after World War 2.”
The answer is simple but only the smart ones will realise it at first. The rest will only realise it when they or someone they know, reach the head of the queue.
The answer is this. If someone dies from violence and nothing is done, dying will continue. Hence one day it will be my turn to die. If the attempt is made now to stop the dying, i am saving myself from the possibility of dying. The more obviously near to the start of the queue i am, the more incentive i have.
This is also the reason for “morals”, “ethics” or “good/evil (without the religious additions)”. These are basic rules used to allow safe social interaction.
Rationally saving a billion would be the best? Why? The best rational decision depends on your goals and how you weigh this goals. If you rate the survival of people you know much higher than the survival of strangers or if you define the death of these strangers as something positive (these bastards use precious resources), choosing your friends might be might be the rational choice.
Incubator, in this world we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics!”
Seriously though, the QB alien(s) remind me of the Strangers from “Dark City.” They may be from another one of the multiverses/timelines to suck the energy from this one via Magical Girls…kind of like Asimov’s “The Gods Themselves.” Remember what Asimov said: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
This series has turned into the Magical Girl version of “To Serve Man.” Aliens promise and deliver wonderful things and then use humans like cattle…all with out lying outright. If I were Madoka, I’d be screaming all over the place “IT’S A COOKBOOK!!!”
I see a lot of comments with a negative bias towards the story direction, mostly in that they think it doesn’t make sense, and I don’t really think it’s all that warranted.
Energy from emotion: people are happy to believe in things like hyper-drives and time travel, but not in energy from emotion? No real difference here, it’s a construct to create a story and it’s a big part of the fiction element at work here (Else we’d just have an office drama or something!). It’s not like it’s impossible that such a technology could exist, and it’s not like the ‘laws’ of thermodynamics are real laws either, it’s just all we know so far, so creating a way around it isn’t that far fetched. (faster than light travel, anyone?)
Entropy being a bad excuse to need energy: We don’t know what kind of scale the Kyubei race(s) are on. They could have billions of stars colonized, with billions of kyubei’s on each star, with each star’s energy being used to maximum capacity. The entropy involved in each star might be killing millions of kyubei’s all the time, as each star’s energy release fractionally decreases. It does seem to be explained as more of a preventative measure though, such as our reliance on fossil fuels: they know it’s running out, so they want to stop using it.
Why humans: They have a big media panic, the Kyubei leader’s make a plan, and pull out a long list of ‘most efficient methods of getting energy’, and it turns out human girls are at the top of the list. Human’s being a low-class sentient, and according to their code of ethics, are acceptable for use as long as they agree (with or without full understanding – they aren’t advanced enough since they’re too low class to understand anyway).
As far as Kyubei being super evil and all, we have only seen half of the story. Here is what might be the other half, still as evil now?
On a star in a galaxy billions of light years away from Earth, a family is sitting huddled around a small makeshift fire. “Throw Lee’s chair onto the fire, it’s going to go out!” moan’s Kee, Lee’s brother, as she tries to move even closer to the fire. Lee died from starvation three day’s earlier, since he had always been a little sickly. “No, we just put more on the fire, you’ll have to wait awhile, or else we’ll be without anything to burn later,” her father, Jo, tries to explain to her. Jo is the governor for the entire star, but because he can’t be seen to be giving priority to his own family, he is stuck in the same position as everyone else: dieing slowly as their star burns itself out, with not enough heat or light reaching their world to keep the ecosystem alive.
The fire throws shadows across the room, patterns dancing near the window. Jo stares blankly at the patterns, his vision slightly blurred. Suddenly white moves swiftly, ears bouncing. Jo jumps to his feet, “Incubator!” he exclaims.
“Your star has been selected for rejuvenation. Do you accept this grief seed?”
“Yes!”
Light flares through the window, the star has been rejuvenated by the sacrifice of a single. Billions cheer, they have been saved, their world restored.
This is the perfect link for you (and many others here):
http://www.philosophyexperiments.com/fatman/Default.aspx
I agree with all this.
Sorry, it was Arthur C. Clarke, and not Isaac Asimov that said “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
Why is it that everyone seems to be thinking Kyubei’s explanation for what he’s actually doing is correct? I’m personally thinking that it’s all a front, and that he’s got something else going on. And another question, not all witches come from magical girls, so where do the others come from?
I think Kyubee is lying. I would not believe anything he says. He is not after saving the universe. He is an demon, a monster that feeds on the souls of adolescent girls destroyed by his lies of omission and commission.
It is pure dispair built up by the hopelessness that comes with endlessly fighting by a magic girl. who soon turn into a witch to only be killed by another magic girl. In order to to draw off dispair the “sin” accumulating in their soul.
Kyubee then eats the concentrated horror stored within the greef seeds and grows stronger.
I would like him to be evil. It was kind of disappointed to find out that he is just a Chaotic good, even more afther hating him soo much for the past 8 episodes.
That they call it incubator like it’s supposed to birth something bothers me as well. Like it’s carging it’s batteries for something. Basically start to finish it’s eatin girls. And not telling them it’s going to eat you sooner or later is like a phone comapny contract with no ending or buyout. Unless he’s also no telling them that part.
I can also see why Homura needs Madoka to not become a Mahou Shoujo, because of the shoujo -> witch cycle. Say Madoka becomes a Mahou Shoujo that kicks ass. She defeats all of the witches. Then there are no more Grief seeds to purify her everyday accumulation of angst. Madoka becomes a witch. The world falls the ruin. (Next part is theory) The last girl on Earth and friends with Madoka before her fall contracts with Kyubey to go back in time.
Kyubey’s name appears in romaji on the official homepage of the anime (in his promotion video f.ex.)
apparently, witch sayaka’s name is Oktavia von Seckendorff.
What was up with that anyways? She turned into some knight/mermaid/conductor thing and shot out wheels? And got weird name like that?
Is that confirmed? I’m visiting the Wiki page of Madoka, and they are not sure if its her witch name or some other musician.
yes its confirmed.
“Sayaka’s witch name is Oktavia von Seckendorff. In real life, Karl Siegmund von Seckendorff was a german poet who wrote a novel called Das Rad des Schicksals = The Wheel of Fate (which explains the wheels, there was also mention of fate in her barrier). He also put ‘The King in Thule’ (a poem by Goethe, part of Faust1) to music.”
sources here:
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Episode_9#Speculations_and_Observations
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Runes:Episode_9
I see, that’s one long name compare to the other witches.
“Octo” means eight in latin. Also it can be from “Octave”. More musical references?
i think i’m going to kill urobuchi if homura goes to do another(?) iteration, creating a hellish and unending cycle of despair and failure for her and the world..T_T i think that would be the WORST END for this show.. now i’m reminded of KnM.. DX
Homura is the little black cat in the opening.
oh, and if Homura has killed Kyubey (or as someone nicely put in previous comments: 9bey) 2ice already, how many lives does he have? – 9?
he has multiple bodies. They’re basically a race that has a single mind (?)
ah, lol, haven’t seen ep 9 yet (and the post itself does not explicity refer to him having many bodies at the same time) 😛 although Kyubey having many bodies and one mind does explain the feeling of him being at the same time in different places in previous episodes.
episode 8 kinda revealed that he isn’t just one actually. X) it’s also been said(not really inside the show) that if a QB body gets seriously injured,a replacement is automatically made.
well yeah, my comment regarding him was based on ep 8 :S is the number of bodies that can be made limited or limitless? also is ther only one body at the time roaming around or several? cause i’ve had many times the feeling that Kyubey was in many places at the same time during the series.
i’m not so sure but i think it’s limitless. QBs roaming everywhere, maybe.
I actually think Homura is Madoka from the future. Her soul gem is pink and her social skills can be a result of her wish: “I don’t want to have these emotions”. Or maybe Homura is the emotionless part of Madoka, that she wished away. Sadly, that doesn’t explain Homura’s breakdown on episode 8.
this is more depressing than bokurano…
Wow… so many comments, but Kyuubei’s explanation of Entropy is wrong.
When a tree grows, the energy it uses is converted into molecular bonds and vice versa, thus the process of the tree living releases and stores energy. Burning firewood is just breaking the bonds of the molecules still left in the tree and releasing molecular energy.
Thus, this whole concept is admirable to most people, but will fall apart once someone picks at it too much, like all fiction.
The question now is whether that was the fault of the writers or some lie QB made up.
I don’t think the way 9bee worded entropy really makes a difference; it may be worded wrong, but if you substitute our definition of entropy in it it makes sense? Consider that they may be pandering to people who aren’t science majors or have a science degree, and took an arts/humanities path in high school.
Aside from emotions being energy that breaks thermodynamic laws, but that’s the whole point – even 9bee admits it doesn’t make sense, no?
Even your definition has fault in it. What is ‘molecular energy’? Surely you mean something else.
Not really true.. entropy would be some of the heat from that fire could radiate outwards into space, effectively becoming unusable. And since we can’t generate any new energy, or use this ‘lost’ energy, the amount of usable energy has decreased.
It’s a very very old idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe
“In an alternate theory, the heat-death of the universe is when the universe has reached a state of maximum entropy. This happens when all available energy (such as from a hot source) has moved to places of less energy (such as a colder source). Once this has happened, no more work can be extracted from the universe. Since heat ceases to flow, no more work can be acquired from heat transfer. This same kind of equilibrium state will also happen with all other forms of energy (mechanical, electrical, etc.). Since no more work can be extracted from the universe at that point, it is effectively dead.”
I have an irking feeling Madoka will be the Walpurgis. When Kyuubey mentioned “You will become the strongest mahou shojou and the strongest witch” and when Kyouko said “Walpurgis is an insanely strong witch.”
Homura could be preventing Madoka from becoming the Walpurgis or something.
I thought she meant the normal problems that a dead body can cause.
I don’t know if anyone brought this up yet, but…
Homura warned Kyoko that Sayaka’s body can cause trouble if she gets rid of it carelessly. I doubt Kyoko disposed Sayaka’s body, since she tried to save her till the very end. I wonder if this will play a part in causing Walpurgisnacht…
Perhaps it has something to do in the real world if her body was found dead. I guess what Homura is trying to say is to get rid or bury the body somewhere else or risk being seen and cause some problems that comes with a death that goes with it, or maybe the inside of that body no longer resembles a human anatomy.
Another thing I realized a few hrs ago…
How did the first mahou shoujo came about if there weren’t any witches before hand? (note that the soul gem TRANSFORMS into grief seed)
It’s not as if Incubator actually got someone to be MS in the first place…
right?
Maybe he just granted someone’s wish without explaining the rest, not like there was anything stoping him/they from doing it by force the first time.
BY THE WAY MADOKA IS OWNEDING RC AT COMMENTS COUNT.
afaik there are also ordinary persons turning witches under great despair… so we are faced with binary choice, defeat a few witches before turning into one, or just do nothing and let them roam the world. sadly I am unable to compute what does more damage to society, since it seems withces created from MGs are more powerful…
But, all those girls should ask some basic question before contract:
duration = how long will I pay for that phone?
specs of the phone = what exactly I can get as a wish?
prices = what exactly will I have to fight, and with what chances of surviving?
As certain devil put it, he sent some of the Verizon offers to hell’s department of cyrographs with note: read and learn boys!
I think the biggest question here is how long they have been doing this, perhaps thousands of years ago? As for how is the first MS was created, we should try to think first on how witches are first created. If we try to remember it was not only young girls that turns into one, even familiars (whatever that is), and other things Kyuubei wasn’t yet explained but the key is ‘despair’ creates grief seeds. Perhaps since ages ago other worldly beings are already wrecking havoc to the human world against our knowing, despair keeps on piling up on people then it consumes them and create the witches and familiars in its current form. Then the Incubators being genius they are started recruiting MS blinded with a promise of granting only one wish, they eventually grew in number, creating an endless vicious cycle. Just a wild guess.
Doesn’t this reminds you of someone familiar?
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7459/madoka9025.jpg
I wonder if that person is going to play a pivotal role in the upcoming major battle.
I opted to not include that shot. While I think I had a note about talking about it, I am also very curious to see what Kyousuke being there means.
I think its just that Kyousuke’s image is inside of Sayaka’s witch realm. It seems that the witch realm has something to do with the despair or inner thoughts of a person before being transformed into a witch, in the process of transformation, it warp the witch inside a realm were all her thoughts exploded. I hope that’s just the case.
Amidst all the hubbub in that sequence, I did not notice Kyousuke. I am shocked at how much depth they put into every little thing they do in this show. I’ve never seen such a thought-provoking Anime before. D:
Yay, I wasn’t the only one! Initially I thought Homura had gone nuts and brought him into the witches realm xD, but then noticed it was an ilussion. That explains why he has his back turned at her despite all of the “Look at me!” from Sayaka. Also, seems like he was directing the orchestra (Sayaka’s actions) or something. Lots of symbolism, huh? Anyway, I’m pretty curious how would him and Hitomi react at the news.
yes, you’re not alone. XD I noticed it too. XD
btw, i’m quite expecting that hitomi and kamijo aren’t really dating. Hitomi would reveal this prolly whilst crying over sayaka..and, quite possibly,kamijo confesses that he likes sayaka too. gahh..if only sayaka had known the truth. anyhow, i could be wrong.XD
Sayaka, you silly girl…
Your naivety has caused everyone so much pain and now Homura is in deep shit because of you
So, Is it just me or is Walpurgis that big house thing Homura was fighting way back on ep.1? I mean the pictures floating in the air in her room are of that thing. You can also make out there is the picture of a girl (MS?) floating next to it… In ep1 kyuubei tells Madoka that Homura cant do it alone and that she needs her help…thats pretty much the situation we are in now…so I’m guessing one of the upcoming empisodes will be just like Madoka’s dream?
This series makes you wonder if any of the girls are going to survive by the end of the series, which reminds me, must make a kyubey plushie =D
Im really curious towards, how the guys at shaft will end this show, will we see a fma type of ending, a code geass/new testament type of ending, an ending that stays true to the genre or (what im hoping for the most of these options) an ending where the aliens desperate try to prolong the lifespan of the universe ends up destroying it sooner then it was supposed to (like Madokas witchform being the doom of the universe or smthing). but really with how the the show has been so far, i guees whatever they’ll think of will be more awesome then anything i could possibly suggest teh lulz ! xD
I wonder if they are going to pull a Terminator on us. You can’t change the future. All you did was only to delay the inevitable.
haha.. this turned into a forum for moral human ethics… loved reading the comments ^^\m/
I’m pretty surprise myself, at first the discussion is all about whether Kyubei is a force of evil or not, later it added about human morals and ethics, with this episode it combines with science stuff with the inclusion of thermodynamics and entropy. I’m very happy reading stuff here, this forum becomes very informative 🙂
Even me who have already forgotten anything about physics were force to google some of it in order to catch up with what the viewers is posing here. Good stuff is good.
I knew from when Kyoko started talking about attempting to save Sayaka that she was most likely going to die or take Sayaka with her. I called this back 3 eps ago, but it’s still depressing. I really did like Kyoko and just like that, she went out in a bang. I really didn’t want her to die.
Does each Mahou Shoujo girl have either a special ability or final move?
Sayaka- recovery
Kyoko- I am guessing that self destruct move (overloading her soul gem to create a massive explosion)
Homura- time
Mami- huge gun summon
Yep, it is frustrating to see characters killed off one after another…
Especially after they become more likeable ones.
It is assumed MG’s special power is affeced by the wish they have chosen, Sayaka wanted her crush to be healed, we dont know about Mami much, her wish was to not die? Kyoko has stated her wish was for her father to get a following, so I see no connection to her suicidal special attack, other than that her father killed himself and rest of the family save Kyoko. It is heavily rumored that Homura’s wish was to travel back in time to prevent Madoka from becoming a MG.
Kyoko also had a barrier ability that seemed unique to her
I think if any Mahou Shoujo attempts to blow up their soul gem, something big will happen.
https://randomc.net/2011/03/03/mahou-shoujo-madoka-magica-09/
meet Urobuchi Gen
FATE ZERO LN Author (Fate Stay Night Prequel), Puella Magi Madoka Magica Story & Scriptwriter, Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom Scenario and Screenplay writer and various dark and brutal VNs writer. Amazing man is amazing. ^^
Yeah, I’m currently watching Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom, currently episode 7, depressing seeing even innocent kid getting ______, but still this writer knows what he is doing. Good job. Next in my list is Blassreiter, and FATE ZERO when it is release.
You forgot one of Gen’s most famous works: Saya no Uta. It’s like reading a Lovecraft VN. Disturbing and nightmarish, yet strangely romantic and heartwarming. Only Gen could pull it off.
oh i couldn’t forget that one, that VN is a masterpiece ^^
and for those thinking SHAFT staffs have anything to do with the story, NO, it’s all Urobuchi Gen’s doing, as per instructed by Shinbo, the director, he can do WHATEVER HE WANTS, as for us, we’ll do our job animating it. ^^
set your yuri goggles(or do we still need that? XD) for next episode. we’ll get tons of it. XDD
Noooooooooo! My virgin eyes! So you are expecting great Yuri scenes between Madoka and Homurun?
I just wish Kyoko lives to see that Walpurgis night thing, I would have no question if she would die their, if anything else I would be more sad because surely I will be even more attached to her character than this episode. The world is to cruel!
get them devirginized Ghost. XDD you need to be tainted! XDD
not actual yuri though,but heavily subtext’d one.XD so, i already have my yuridar prepared.XDD
anyhow, i’m quite afraid that homura mìght be actually madoka’s family member…but,whatever. LOL
You mean you didn’t have your yuri goggles on until now? What’s wrong with you?!?
LOL. i’m fixing my goggles since they’ve been breaking recently.XDD And i’m expecting them to explode next chapter…XD maybe no need for the goggles.these awesome scenes will be so clear as day to see.XDDD
You mean Yuri giggles? 😛
Sayaka X Kyoko doujins are already in the works after this episode…
XDDD let’s prepare both, the goggles and the giggles..XDDD
yeah. there’s this very cute doujin i read about kyoko and sayaka..XDD i love when kyoko daydreams…
btw,kyoko’s devotion to sayaka quite rivals homura’s to madoka. XDDD
why can’t it be thursday (friday in mah timezone) already?? i so craved for ep10 that instead of working on mah thesis, i’m spending mah time thinking about it. DX
Have to say I completely disagree with Kyubei. I mean really he targets emotional girls at their weakest moments and pretty much says “hey I’ll solve your problem.” Of course doesn’t say he’s going to rip their souls out of their bodies, doesn’t say that their original bodies are going to collapse if the gem gets a certain distance away, doesn’t say that if they don’t fight often enough they will turn into witches, and doesn’t say the entire point of the system is to turn them into witches. Yet with all that withholding of information we are supposed to believe his excuse for why this is being done? An alien race with the ability to do all this has no other options for a problem that apparently is a very far way in the future? The only way to solve this is by just happening to use another sentient species and killing them?
Let’s face it Kyubei and his people are evil and the enemies of the human race. We can go into a deep philosophical debate about what is evil and perspectives, but that’s a headache. Kyubei is certainly the enemy of humanity.
Too bad about Kyoko though. One of the last really likable characters left. At this point I’m not really that worried about what’s going to happen. The worst they can do is kill Homura and have Madoka become a witch that destroys the world. But they’ve already killed most of the main characters so what’s the problem there?
I can’t believe how many comments there are…
A lot of stuff I wanted to say was already mentioned, but I’m still going to mention that the way Sayaka’s domain was like a concert hall made me really sad… And so did the heart graffiti outside the gate. ;__;
Also, I’m calling him “Cubey” (from inCUBator).. or maybe it should be Cubay in that case?
Plus, this has TEN TIMES as many views as the last episode’s page, which was the highest amount for the series up until this week.
I starting to wonder what exactly the most popular series on this site is…
@ Da5id
You must be getting a misunderstanding regarding the page views. The reason why this episode has 10x more page views than previews episode is that this “post view plug-in was only added last March 1, 2011. So only the views starting that day were added. Look at the top-right portion of this website, their it states the following:
“(03/01) A post views plug-in has been added. Please note it will only have data collected from today onwards, so totals on anything already posted will be inaccurate. – Divine”
So technically Madoka has the most number of comments but in terms of views, its neck-to-neck with most of the series. The series with the most page views is ‘Infinite Stratos.
looks like there’s quite an odd coincidence between madoka’s and SD’s latest episode in terms of certain details. This might be the reason why Madoka’s staff needed to do last-minute changes with ep. 09’s script. Now, people are saying that QB’s entropy speech was total bullsh1t…
they just can’t understand Urobuchi Gen, that’s all. ^^
Madoka Magica Passes Haruhi as 2channel’s Most Popular Anime Ever
http://hashihime.blogspot.com/2011/03/madoka-magica-passes-haruhi-as.html
definitely “as expected”
Damn, two in one episode?! Definitely did not anticipate.
Kyouko wins for most predictable death. As I speculated she would be next to die on first appearance. What I didn’t expect was she would take her own life. Rest in peace, Sayaka and Kyouko. ;__;
Here’s another silly theory for you, the witch in Madoka’s dream is actually Homura herself. Since Homura’s special ability is time manipulation, it could be Homura’s witch from the future. It also explains the gears, which can be found inside her grenades. If this is actually the case, Homura stands no chance (obvious) and she’ll need the help of another Mahou Shoujo. Perhaps Hitomi or…dun dun dun… Madoka?!?
saito chiwa said that EP 10 is a WHAM episode. really, i do hope Homerun won’t turn out to be Madoka’s Future Self. DX I’m OK with her being a Cat though..
OK, additional info: A big revelation in EP 10- People will start to view Homura Differently. Rewatching ep 1-10 would be convenient before seeing 11 and 12.
*sigh* HOMURA IS MADOKA!
So we come back to the beginning of episode 1 with Homua battling the dreadnought-class witch alone.
It seems that the DVD/BluRay is out, I hope sometime in the future they add an OVA of a beach scene (or anything as long as the girls are having fun), it doesn’t matter if it completely deviated from its storyline or they act out if character, but just seeing all the girls having fun is a very good treat for fans to see.
Also in my wish-list for an OVA release is a full 30min episode with Tomoe Mami’s back story explaining her early beginnings as an MS, her struggles, etc (or any of the girls for that matter would still be very fun), it would be very cool, also in the event Madoka really didn’t become a MS, a completely random episode with her acting as such.
Well, most of my theories are shot to hell, so my theory about Homura being a time-divergent variant(thanks, AFK)of Madoka’s mom is probably wrong, as well. Homura’s got the wrong color eyes, anyway.
Guess I’ll go theorize some anCnock for a while.
aahh!! it hit 2 pages again! XDD
waiting for thursday seems too long..DX i want to see ep. 10 already..
Me too!!!!! It’s so hard to wait for this show!!
Well that theory of Sayaka being Walpurgis Night is thrown out lol. Then again it is coined to the Festival of witches… so it could be a bunch of witches who transform into one… or its the first Puella ever who fell and now is huge O_O.
It’s kinda funny, how they get the most energy from releases of hope energy to despair rather then the opposite. I guess it’s Chem stuff for yeh. Yet again, I have to believe that Homura does have time paradox restrictions that would have severe consequences if broken.
And yeah, I saw Kyousuke in that, I assume symbolism… unless it was saying if Kyoko brought Kyousuke instead… they would have had a better chance.
Oh Kyubei, you think so logically that I can almost say that you’re one hell of a manipulative furball. Quoted if it was a meaningless sacrifice, I would have told her, but you know, I decided not to tell her for the greater good of Madoka becoming a Mahou Shoujo/Witch. Two timing bastard!
Takaii has a very valid point though. Do note that Madoka and Sayaka didn’t have a wish to begin with. Half of you guys are making it sound like hes always preying on girls who need some sort of wish to change their fate. All he asks is to make a contract and your wish comes true, and honestly, good wish or bad wish, if you fall for the temptation for a “miracle of sorts” to happen, then you’re at fault too. If you follow the Typemoon concept of Reality Marbles, in the sense the world will correct the distortion aka your miracle with a consequence that probably equal to your miracle. I guess what I’m saying is, yes we can say Kyubei is evil, but ultimately the girls are at fault for making a contract with the devil, no matter what they wish for. Heck Kyubei isn’t even a good tempter (As in using the wish to tempt people). He literally just says… MAKE A CONTRACT WITH ME NOW BEFORE THE WITCH SCREWS US OVER! And he sucks at promoting his wish benefit to uninterested customers. He’s basically just there, if you ever fall to the dark side. It’s not like Kyubei acting like Mephistopheles.
There is one very clear message from this story so far. READ THE FINE PRINT OF YOUR CONTRACT BEFORE YOU SIGN IT!
Wow, almost 300 comments. But the pageview count is so far behind Infinite Stratos’ post. xD
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Like I said earlier, I didn’t really think kyubey was evil for this. It’s his job and furthermore and his arguments actually make sense now, he does it to keep the universe from tearing apart. And he doesn’t hold human emotions, so there’s no way he can comprehend how humans feel about it.
this episode did really well to tie in loose ends before it gets to the climax, but I had a feeling kyoko was going to die too…but I was like “NO! Don’t do it -,-“, just when I was starting to really like her she has to die too. Unfortunately I took a peek at the pictures in your episode 10 and Madoka seems like she’s going to be a magical girl.
can someone explain the entropy thing QB was talking about. something about energy being lost, but i thought energy and matter could not be created or destroyed, only changed? his explanation confused me, but i still think of him as an evil “So, when you feel like dying for the universe, give me a call :)” asshole.
Sorry, if this is asking to much but can anyone give me a screenshot of Sakura from the 1st one of the preivews?
oh oops… I mean without the writing