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「夜明けの迷い子」 (Yoake no Mayoigo)
“A Lost Child at Dawn”
The episode started out slow and obtuse, only to hit us with one of the most touching moments and two of the most stunning revelations of the season.
Rieze, Akatsuki, the Beach of Stolen Memories, and a Slow Start
The first two major sections—Lenessia’s discussion with Rieze (Murakawa Rie), and the enigmatic real life and death-beach scenes with Akatsuki and Shiroe—were something of a slog. On the former, this is the first time we’ve really met Rieze, and the whole conversation, including Rieze’s prominent participation in it, came a little out of left field. I think it’s because the themes around Lenessia this season never fully crystallized. I’m not sure if that’s a source material or adaptation problem, but I feel like her issues kept slipping away from my mind, because they were never presented that well. That’s a symptom of the slight lowering in adaptation quality this season. It’s still good, and I’m still enjoying it—the dip isn’t that much in the grand scheme of sequels—but I keep noticing it. I feel like Lenessia’s themes needed to be conveyed better.
As For the whole Akatsuki and Shiroe bit, I get it. They’re on a mysterious, cryptic beach. I’m just not sure what the meaning was. There was no “aha!” moment, no grand revelation, and things like them cutting off part of their hair were shown and then passed on by without explanation. If that was foreshadowing, it needed to be more subtle, because having it shown so prominently begged for answers, or at least begged that the questions should be stated. It smacked of a “meaningful” scene that didn’t convey any grand meaning, so it ended up feeling pretentious.
The World is Getting More and More Real
Then the episode got compelling, fascinating, and downright awesome! First was the announcement from Roderick. Where before I was slouched in my chair, this made me sit the fuck up. The trifecta of all adventurers becoming able to make simple foods, flavor text becoming real, and the actual continent getting bigger is … wow. The ramifications of these could be huge! Take the continent growing—that makes it sound like Elder Tale, which was based on the Half Gaia Project, is becoming as big as Earth. Add in the how gender swapped players are gradually becoming more like the bodies they inhabit—so had Akatsuki stayed in her male body, her personality would be affected and her voice would be getting lower—it sounds like the world they’re in is getting more real by the day. It makes me wonder if they’ll eventually lose enough memories to become full denizens of this world, and that there might soon be things that could kill adventurers forever. The Apocalypse isn’t over, and the World Fraction is still going on. Damn.
Akatsuki’s Dependency, and Finally Making Other Friends
Whereas Lenessia’s themes this season have somewhat eluded me, Akatsuki’s snapped into place crystal clear this episode. I have a fondness for characters who are more than just love interests—I want them to be full characters in their own right, who may happen to be romantically attached to someone. In this, Akatsuki was always lacking. Whereas Shiroe pursues challenges and goals for his own reasons, Akatsuki’s were always centered around Shiroe, and it makes me go “Come on girl! Get your own life!” Though her roleplaying a loyal ninja hid it well.
Then right here, it clicked into place. She’s been dependent on Shiroe. She loves him to be sure, but she was putting it all on him, and not allowing herself to grow closer to anyone else—she hasn’t even made any other true friends since they became trapped in this world! Akatsuki was half a character, but not because Touno Mamare just wanted her around as Shiroe’s love interest. No, her dependency was a hurdle she needed to get over, and she’s finally realized how it’s crippling her. She needs to be her own person! She needs to do the things she wants to do because she wants to do them, not just because Shiroe wants her to! And with this, she finally has. She decided to pursue the murderer and help Lenessia because of Lenessia herself, because she saw the princess trying hard, and that’s remarkable. I truly did tear up a little bit, when I realized that Akatsuki was a deeper character than she’s ever been shown so far. Excellent. She may be cute, but I prefer her as a rich and complex character rather than a mascot and a love interest.
Looking Ahead – Krusty, Noooooo!
The double whammy of Akatsuki’s realization and the world changing would have been enough, but we got to see a consequence of that changing world as well. Flavor text is real, and it can kill. Could it be possible that something can actually kill an adventurer now? Probably not, probably not … but maybe. The world is changing, and that little bit of uncertainty makes it all work.
tl;dr: @StiltsOutLoud – A slow start segues into an expositional bombshell & long overdue development for Akatsuki. This story’s still got it #loghorizon s2e6
Random thoughts:
- They were right about evil santa being in the sewers. Looks like he didn’t get out of that last battle unscathed, and I guess People of the Land don’t have health regen anymore. Not sure whether adventurers do, though given the kinds of MMORPGs this is based off of, probably not.
- I do like how the character art when they’re showing their real selves is more realistic … in theory. The problem is they slide a bit too much into uncanny valley, and I just like their game character designs better.
- Stilts note: Episode seven’s post may be delayed until Monday as well. Sorry for the inconvenience. This should be the last time for at least a few weeks.
Check out my blog about storytelling and the novel I’m writing at stiltsoutloud.com. The last four posts: Save it for your daydreams, Storytelling is subjective, Delusions of importance, and Only once. For book updates, sign up for my mailing list.
Full-length images: 34.
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So a question to LN readers: (Please put spoiler tags) What happened to Krusty? T_T Will Lenessia be alone from now on (in terms of her relationship with Krusty) I really liked their ship 🙁
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@thatone:
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On a related note, what about Misa’s forearm? Does it come back to her from healing or does she have to respawn?
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Stilts edit: Let’s keep all this thread in spoiler tags, thanks.
Hmmm, but if Crusty…
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By the way, what is the exact flavor text of Misa’s scythe weapon?
Ok, so the text in the wikia is the flavor text.
Doesn’t really say anything.
Is “eluded” the word you were looking for, or did I read that sentence wrong?
I too felt like the the thing with the beach of memories was done… Well, wrong somehow. I was really lost and confused during that whole sequence, especially with Akatsuki just randomly dancing out of nowhere.
However, I definitely enjoyed everything else the episode had to offer, especially Roderick’s lecture. The second he brought up a certain topic, a lightbulb went on in my head and I instantly realized the reason for a bit of trivia I picked up about the show’s production and it made me seriously want to applaud the staff for the effort they went to as pertains to one of this season’s new additions.
Thanks for the catch. S’what I get for writing a post while sick, lol
As a LN reader, the beach scene is also something wrong in my eye. even though I fully c why she start dancing （out of kinda happiness,kinda like someone from the equator suddenly saw snow in my view).I still feel like something is lacking here.recommend you to search a novel drawing pic from novel vol.6. it’s a two page drawing for the beach scene.ill say that one present the scene better.
So, is that Akatsuki in the last image (episode preview)? Or another ninja character teaching her the skills?
I hope it’s a new character. There’s no way Akatsuki would appear like that in the preview.
She has appeared before, and is actually in the OP as well.
She’s actually a character from the TRPG that was imported, I guess, into the anime.
I quite enjoyed the beach scene myself. Now we finally know why the Adventurers are losing their memory, which is kind of a big deal. The hair is presumably just meant to symbolize that sacrifice.
http://i.imgur.com/AQ70f7j.jpg
Poor Crusty though.
Ooo, nice catch.
and if you look carefully in the first few second of the OP in first season, you can see
someones hair flowing
Ara, ara…
So adventurers actually have to sacrifice some memories – symbolized by the ritual hair strand – to get resurrected.
This begets question, “What happened to the real world?” – “is it still out there?”.
As for the Apocalypse still going on – in a kinda, “expanding universe way” is BIG. What was just a fiction, from flavor texts to the some adventurer’s pretended sex, is becoming all too much real. Hint to myself, stay away from “cursed” items…
As for the character development for Lenessia and Akatsuki, the common theme is making friends. Lenessia finally goes beyond treating adventurers as some superheroes alien to her, and starts treating them as friends, asking questions about their private issues and opening up herself. Akatsuki goes out of her Shiroe-centered shell, to make friends too.
One of compelling things about LH is that there are no unimportant characters. Rieze looked just like a glorified secretary to Crusty… until now, when she suddenly became VERY important. She looks like quite capable of devising a plan to defeat “Evil Santa”.
Always love a Stilts review with it’s great ideas and for me quality writing. (long story but I don’t have the education to judge someones writing even though I wanted to go farther in the field)
I have been getting Lenessia’s way more than culture shock problem. Think about a human moving in with Tolken’s high Elf’s, they are way older and more skilled in seemingly every area along with more powerful. Lenessia has it not as bad as dealing with Galadriel a 6’4, 20 on the human 1 to 10 scale. Who can seam like a young maid at times so very approachable. But Galdriel also radiates at times great power that you know is god like and higher than human intelligence. And you have trouble forgetting she is older than the human race in The Lord of the Rings if you grew up there and learned your history. Lenessia does not have it that bad but she knows Shiro has been alive for hundreds of years and certainly as a major guild leader Crusty as well. Many of the key people Lenessia has ran into are probably in her history books even if she did not learn that in her education I’m sure her father has had her informed of the history now though messengers. So Lenessia is dealing with people that to her are superior to her in every way possible (except looks) and I assume she assumes most way older than her. To Lenessia the people she is dealing with seam like demigods. Lenessia has been dealing with a major inferiority complex along with culture shock. It is great that Lenessia has kept trying and in this episode finally accepted she can be friends with these demigods.
I took Shiro and Akatsuki scene as a mystery encounter that we are not intended to know the whole of so I tried to file it all away. I don’t know if Shiro and Akatsuki fully understand it themselves especially after they come alive. I am sure that the pieces going out of them to join the others in the air are the memories they lost.
I too love the revelation that the world is becoming more real, now cursed items actually work like cursed items should when there was not a game mechanism for that before. The changing into your game sex is why I will always wish to be brought back as a young healthy beautiful “lesbian” girl.
is it ‘semigod’ you mean? instead of demigod
Merriam-Webster Demigod ” a person so outstanding as to seem to approach the divine ” “a mythological being with more power than a mortal but less than a god” I think both apply to Adventurers in Log Horizon. A search on semigod goes to Demigod so we referring to the same thing.
I think the only way to remove those ominous flavor text is via purification… if Elder Tale has one.
And while the world is becoming like Earth in terms of full-scale, it seems that the monsters are stepping up by learning their mistakes, becoming harder enemies like in Dark Souls. Speaking of Dark Souls, I hope that Mamare-san played that too.
Thanks for reminding me the Goblins are training their fighting skills now trying to level up. To me as a old, started late 70’s, Dungeon and Dragons and other paper and dice role playing games player the world is turning more into one of those tales done by a good Gamemaster. There Goblins had brains and used them along with the other thinking monsters. Be a major problem is bosses started changing up strategy as well. And there was no flavor text in role playing games (other than history of item if not a clue) you could create mechanisms to enforce special conditions as you went along as a Gamemaster.
I assume that sea they were at when they died is some kind of purgatory where they lose a portion of their memories…supposedly as payment to be sent back to life but when Shiroe cut a flock of his hair and offered it to the sea was he trying to curb around having to lose part of his memories? Or am I reading too much into this and it was something complete unrelated?
Nice review and episode as always！
The beach scene, while arguably mishandled, made sense by visualizing what is meant by memory loss in Log Horizon. Akatsuki lost part of herself during that scene as shown by the disintegrating particles, while the hair looked to be a symbolizing of the event (a seemingly inconsequential part that means nothing by itself, but when added together yields something significant). Really liking how subtle and organic character development is in the show.
As for the world changes the expansion of world size was the most interesting as it hints towards the game world filling some sort of void. Other changes such as the RL/game sex dichotomy and flavour text indicate a morphing of game mechanics into a more generalized physical system not unlike natural law (physics, not philosophy in this context). The question now isn’t what’s all going to change, but how much of the original game mechanics will be left in their starting forms once the shift is complete.
The beach scene makes me wonder if an Adventurer could refuse to respawn, if cutting hair is symbolism for the process.
This is interesting. Say that, instead of not wanting to respawn, you cannot respawn…
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I suspect it’s more likely that the one that brought them there never ended.
Good point. Using the Apocalypse as a synonym for a casting of World Fraction, it’d definitely be the same one.
I guess the over recurring sentence “… when this was still a game …” sounds a bit different now, doesn’t it? Because it’s clear now that is not a game anymore but a full fledged alternate reality.
For those who are wondering, here’s the flavor text for Misa’s scythe (it was revealed long before this point for novel readers, so people were expected to know it already by the time this event happened): Show Spoiler ▼
It’s… just flavor-text. You can find that sort of thing on rare, unique, or legendary items in any of dozens or maybe even hundreds of RPGs from the last few decades. People see it, thing “that’s cool” and pay no more mind to it beyond the details that inform them of what bonuses it gives them.
And I love the flavor text change. One reason some people still play the paper and dice role playing games role playing games is that special rules are easy to make and put into action, no programing required just some thought to how it interacts with other things, so items can really be unique and make the story feel more real. Here the world is becoming more real not having to conform to how programing works but how that universes physics should work. People need to watch out petrification is going to be harder to handle, your going to have to use a mirror to avoid a direct glance. And adventurers have to have a 10 foot pole is going to become a raid necessary to poke and prod things. (a fond dice role play item along with hobbit approved rope)
I agree with RedRocket, this is a nice change because it expands the story beyond the more rigid programmed-style RPG and into something more like a pen & paper one. Like I said, it’s becoming more real.
i think they cut their hair to prove if it was a real place. coming back without the hair would mean it’s a real area and a important clue.
I think that makes the most sense, because if the beach is actually a spiritual place then their hair should have been restored to its original appearance when they respawned in their respective spots; but if the hair they cut is still missing, then its possible they could revisit the area and find more clues into their world.
I got the same impression as Shiro was first to cut his hair. I think the memory they lose is the one they relive before arrive at this purgatory of a beach.
To any LN readers, does anyone know what happened to those potions that Shiroe said were given to people to change their appearance? I did learn that they were a rare event item that came from a failed promotional event, but have they delved into trying to replicate the potion or is there no other way to change a person’s appearance like how Akatsuki luckily got one from Shiroe?
Now that I think about it, the light novel mentioned them in Roderick’s speech but it was cut out from the anime.
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@Stilts: There was no “aha!” moment, no grand revelation, and things like them cutting off part of their hair were shown and then passed on by without explanation.
Yeah, the whole “beach” scene didn’t come across all that well, and I had the same impression about the hair-cutting. Oh sure, you know it’s symbolic of something, but a little help here please because exactly what it symbolizes isn’t so clear unless it’s simply “something was left behind” which I already got from the whole giving up a memory thing.
— “Add in the how gender swapped players are gradually becoming more like the bodies they inhabit—so had Akatsuki stayed in her male body, her personality would be affected and her voice would be getting lower—it sounds like the world they’re in is getting more real by the day.
TBH, I never got the sense that an individual’s personality was affected, just their physical body, though I suppose such an unanticipated change could be unnerving. The traps are now trapped. 😛
— “It makes me wonder if they’ll eventually lose enough memories to become full denizens of this world, and that there might soon be things that could kill adventurers forever.”
AFAIK, memory loss only occurs if they “die” and respawn. A memory is the price you pay for doing so. Assuming that’s still correct, it’s independent of the “World Fraction/Apocalypse” event. Don’t die, won’t lose any memories. However, if there is now some added effect beyond death = memory loss, that would put an interesting spin on things.
While I think the series is well written overall, one thing that I think is still lacking is any sense of urgency over returning to the “real world”. As it is, apart from the occasional psycho “guard” and money problems (welcome to post-education RL Shiro :P), most adventurers we see are pretty well settled in and enjoying life. I get a much stronger sense of colonization than trapped somewhere and wanting to return. Adapting to the situation is important, but so far IMO that has far overshadowed trying to return to “RL”. It just doesn’t feel like anyone really cares about that anymore.
— “The trifecta of all adventurers becoming able to make simple foods, flavor text becoming real, and the actual continent getting bigger is … wow. The ramifications of these could be huge!”
For me, by far the most interesting, and possibly important/having the greatest impact is the flavor text becoming real. THAT opens up HUGE possibilities including some system abuse. Remember, the adventurers are able to not only craft items, but new and different items not previously present in the game – and they can include “flavor text” for those items. For example: “Godly Impenetrable Armor of Reflection – This xyz tier armor (whatever the highest is – Heck make up a higher tier) grants its wearer complete invulnerability to all harmful attacks and effects – whether physical, magical, mental, spiritual or elemental, and including but not limited to, curses or any other debilitating effects, latent or otherwise. Instead, said harmful effects and damage will be instantly and unavoidably reflected back upon the attacker at double strength, damage and duration completely ignoring any innate or other resistances said attacker may have.”
Now pair that with a “The Sword of Absolute, Complete and Instantaneous Victory”. Welp, no problem clearing those pesky high level dungeons now (or PVP or whatever). The limitations of course could be lack of proper materials and/or crafting skill level limits or whatnot, but I think you can see where I’m going with this. A LOT of hax/OP possibilities now open up for the adventurers.
— “…that little bit of uncertainty makes it all work.
Yep. I agree.
This brings up the question: is there any flavor text that could possibly kill an adventurer permanently?
about flavour text
Given the piece of work he wrote, I don’t think Mamare is so dumb to let it slip such a huge mistake about flavour text. I Think it simply has to elaborate more about it and that you cannot write something so unreasonable as ‘invincible hax lol sword’ or something.
I think it just follows the original idea that cooking skills, and even overskill follow closely, that is to say you cannot do anything more that’s in your own power to craft or do.
yeah that is a hax system but
Roderick confirm that only some items are and we do not know their origin just yet .
According to MMO RPG rule, there are 3 routes to obtain items in LH
1. Adventure
Adventure can invent anything as long as their knowledge persist but not everything. Magic bag is one of them . Personally, I don’t think adventure can invent this real ‘flavor text’ item.
2. People of the Land
Just like Adventure. But some can invent very powerful items with unique ability that are only distributed through quest.
3. Monster/Raid drops
Kunie clan is responsible for money drop but not the items. The question is who invent these item drops?
I would say the scythe that make Krusty vanish was from raid drops. Powerful weapon tend to come with a curse flavor text.
@daikama
Death & memory:
I meant, what happens if someone dies enough to completely forget Earth? They could become little different than a Person of the Land, aside from their power and respawn abilities … but if they all slide away, could even that go away? Probably not, probably not … but something major would have been lost nonetheless.
Returning to the real world:
I wouldn’t focus on that if I were you. That doesn’t appear to be what this story is about at all.
Flavor text:
I remember something on crafting, where adventurers can make anything they have knowledge of from Earth, but only if they have a high enough level. So it might technically be possible to make a nuclear bomb, but only if you were Lv 200, and since that’s impossible, making a nuke is functionally impossible. I would expect super hax equipment to be in the same boat.
If the game rules continue to affect them, that is.
Given how memory is linked to exp point (and level) forgetting everything about earth means dropping to exp zero points. So no death, at least the physical one. Quite unreasonable but still possible, what exactly happens next is a mystery. ^^
@Stilts: Thanks for the reply/clarification
“I meant, what happens if someone dies enough to completely forget Earth?”
There is that possibility, especially considering that things are in a state of flux right now. Maybe it’s one memory now for revival, but later 2, 3, 4… or just larger chunks. It also ties into the question of who, if anyone, will end up staying in the game world. For those that do, will it be voluntary or involuntary (e.g. simply forget about RL world completely or trapped or whatever)? That’s certainly been a question on my mind since season 1. Posted as much. FWIW, my guess is that some adventurers do end up staying and at least some of those will be voluntary.
— Regarding Returning to the “Real World”
So far, you’re certainly correct in that it isn’t the focus of the story. However, given the underlying situation, I don’t think the issue can be ignored completely which it pretty much has so far. Even if just a few lines of dialog here and there – something that it’s still on at least some adventurers’ minds. Personally, I find it on par – directly related in fact, to how they got there in the first place. For that issue, we did get some explanation (i.e. World Fraction/Apocalypse stuff). It also ties into your above hypothetical situation of some staying and becoming quasi-people of the land. Again, I’m not asking for much, but something once in a while since it is a valid question IMO, and gets distracting when completely ignored as it has been. I would think at some point it must be addressed anyway.
— Regarding Flavor Text: LOL opened up a bigger can of worms there than I anticipated. Making a general reply on that so see below if interested.
@Stilts: Gah! Keep forgetting to mention this – hope you’re feeling better!
@daikama
I’m fine, no worries. I take good care of myself, so even when I get sick, it doesn’t last long.
And to me, it’s less “returning to the real world/Earth” than “learning the truth of this world”. Returning is just one option they might take when they learn about what happened, but they’ve got to do that first, and that’s way more interesting to me anyway. A subtle but important difference, to be fair, but it’s there.
@Daikama: Regarding Returning to the “Real World”
Log Horizon is about world building, so answering a question like that practically means asking the end of the serie.
Every arc is about one aspect of games applied to this new world building, and I’m pretty sure they’ll also cover that matter. But I think Nureha’s problem (and clan wars game features) are to be explored first.
@Solaris:“Log Horizon is about world building, so answering a question like that practically means asking the end of the serie.”
Fully aware and understand the whole world-building concept. As for my issue with the series so far ignoring the issue of possibly returning to the “real world”, who said that it has to be immediately and completely solved? I sure didn’t. If you read my post carefully, you’ll see that I wrote: “Even if just a few lines of dialog here and there – something that it’s still on at least some adventurers’ minds.” followed by ” Again, I’m not asking for much, but something once in a while…”
I’m not asking for it to be completely solved ASAP. In fact, it would be weird if the adventurers to suddenly go “Oh, here’s how we get back home”. I do however, find it odd, and at times disconcerting, that no one appears not only to be worried about returning, but seem to even give a damn at all. Clearly finding the solution (if that indeed happens) is something that will occur later in the story, but it shouldn’t be completely ignored IMO, and there are many simple, unobtrusive ways to convey to readers (and viewers) that the issue is still on at least some adventurers’ minds and that some effort, successful or not, is being made to find a solution. Again, I do not think that is asking for much.
Daikama, if you notice Mamare is already doing what you’re asking for, that is to say adding one piece of information here and there, but a little bit more cleverly than simple foreshadowing. He linked the matter of how to return home to teleport issue. He revealed Nureah knows something about it and that there are rumors saying Show Spoiler ▼
I put it in spoiler cause I’m not sure it was told in the anime already or not yet.
I am also sure the beach scene is also related, but we’ll speak about it after Shiroe’s part is over.
The change in flavor text is a change from the rules of programing to those of a hard fantasy novel (or paper and dice role playing) So your special weapon is crafted using things that are real in the story. The flavor text change is a change to the rules of magical reality like in a book. A evil crafted weapon would involve summing a deamon, devil or evil book/scroll along with nasty spell mat requirements. Thus the curse or benefit would be organic to how the world works so would be no more hax then items in a story would be. Now that flavor text is changing you can no longer just write it.
In role playing dice and paper games the Game Master would have to be careful not to let player requested features to high level items break the game. Some items in the loot tables especially early in gaming were to powerful so good Game masters learned to modify them to make them more reasonable or not include them in their game. In D&D Game masters had to deal with mages gaining the ability to cast wishes at high level. (see Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards on tvtropes) Game masters are sadists in part if they are good, so our gaming community back then had to work a lawyer like lengthy script to include in all wishes to keep the Game Master from turning the wish on you. But still the wish was always limited to something reasonable and not story breaking by a good GM. The point for this story Shiro, enchanters really do sort of follow the above trope on overpowered, can do great things but limited by very hard to complete tasks that work by story logic not programing.
Regarding my above hypothetical regarding the significance of “flavor text” now taking effect in the “game world”.
First, let me clarify that my above example was very hax/OP on purpose to drive the point home. I realize that there are likely to be limiters in place which is why I ended that section with “The limitations of course could be lack of proper materials and/or crafting skill level limits or whatnot, but I think you can see where I’m going with this.”
That being said, without question, the game world is in a state of flux, and the game “rules/mechanics” which formerly placed limitations are being broken to one degree or another. To use an analogy, there are now cracks in the dam, and while the dam may not fully burst later, it could or at least partially break. Rules are now being broken, and not for the first time (see below). A salad might not seem like much, but considering the fact that before, ANY food made by someone without a chef subclass tasted like mush, it’s a noteworthy and meaningful change. I don’t think that example was thrown into the story on whim. The land growing is another “hard code” game breakdown as is the introduction of “overskills” – even higher level skills which were not in the game and newly created.
While “overskills” may be currently limited to “main class” abilities, I see no reason that the same couldn’t happen to subclasses – particularly since many adventurers are focusing on sub-class skills rather than main class. Would not be surprised at all to see a “smith overskill” which would then naturally increase their ability to craft OP/hax item. “Overskills” are just that – skills that are above the formerly highest level skills in the game. It’s a power-up and a meaningful one.
At this point I should mention that, I do think there would be limitations at some point on what can be created. The questions IMO are what exactly are those limits, and whether said current limits will remain as such. First, see point above about overskills possibly for sub-classes. In fact, is there any guarantee that current level limits (for both main and sub-class) will remain? The system is breaking down. Even with current level limits, what might be possible is not as restricted as it may seem at first glance. Consider what Shiroe did last season at level 90 Scribe (IIRC) when he revived Rudy by creating an brand new sub-class – “Adventurer”. That was a “rule-breaker” for sure, smashing the long standing barrier between People of the Land and Adventurers. It’s big deal, and sparked a very long discussion about the ramifications of that event – much of which is quite similar in concept to what I theorized in my post.
Personally, I think that raw materials will pose the greatest limit on how hax/OP one can craft an item (same primary limitation I mentioned in my comments for Season 1). I also agree that skill/level limitations would exist as well, though see above about how IMO it’s uncertain what exactly those limitations might be. And I do believe that the “flavor text effect” could apply to adventurer created magic items. IMO, one needs look no further than precisely how Shiroe created the “Adventurer sub-class” – words. Frankly, I think one could take that that event as a precursor to what’s happening now. At any rate, given that event, I see no reason why adventurer created flavor text couldn’t have an effect the same as “in-game” item flavor text. While there has not been an example of adventurer created “flavor text effect” far, the phenomenon just started.
Even without creating super hax/OP items as my above example, the IMO the legitimate possibility that adventurers could use the “flavor text effect” to craft more powerful items is still a game changer. While items are certainly not all there is to successfully playing an RPG/MMORPG, they sure are helpful. Akatsuki’s desire for a top-tier item “power-up” is a good example (even if not for all the right reasons). Suddenly rare top-tier items become not so rare, and there is still the possibility of new types of items, which individually may not be truly hax/OP on their own, in conjunction with other items and/or in quantity, make a substantial and meaningful impact.
In the end, I expect this to be more intellectual exercise than something which has a substantial role in the actual story. TBH, I’m not even sure if this issue will be addressed in the story at all. That being said, I still think that the “flavor text effect” is a pretty big deal, and one that adventurers, at least in theory, could meaningfully exploit.
Totally agree the flavor text change is a major deal. I was pointing out that it probably no longer possible to change or create flavor text any more as flavor text is changing into history and attributes of the item as written in a fantasy novel. So yes the ability to give abilities and curses to items not possible in the game is a big deal. It just that these new attributes will have to be done in a hard fantasy novel way. If it goes totally over eventually all game like thing could go away and it would just be a fantasy world. I don’t think it going to go that far but I do see it moving over to a magic and world system like in Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere and many other magic anime of the past few years. Things are going to get much more complex as more specialization and cross training in more traits and professions become possible. In example the limit of having only one sub class might disappear and you could have all you wanted assuming you put in the study time and resources. Limited like in the real world few want to train up in many fields but you can do it.
@RedRocket: “I was pointing out that it probably no longer possible to change or create flavor text any more as flavor text is changing into history and attributes of the item as written in a fantasy novel.”
That’s certainly one possibility though it seems to conflict with other adventurer created events such Shiroe creating a new subclass and the creation of “overskills” Those are both new things rather than legend turning into reality. The other thing is that flavor text doesn’t necessarily have to be “historical” or “legendary” in nature. My hax/OP flavor text example was simply a detailed explanation of abilities and attributes. An adventurer smith could make the sword “Ginsu™ – the Eversharp Blade!” and in flavor text describe how it slices and dices opponents like a hot knife through butter with nary a scratch on the blade or need to ever sharpen it. Granted not much “flavor”, but still a possible way to power-up the items outside normal crafting means. AFAIK, there’s no rule concerning what you write for flavor text.
Still, as I posted above, my guess is that this all ends up as intellectual exercise when it comes to what happens in the story. Something theoretically possible, but not explored or even addressed. Instead, I think the role the “flavor text effect” plays in the story is exactly what we saw – one more unexpected challenge for adventurers to overcome. Suddenly that “irrelevant” foreboding flavor text for your favorite high level item isn’t so irrelevant. In this case specifically, does Misa continue to use “Calamity Hearts” (IIRC the name of her scythe)? Great weapon, but now the “calamity” part of the flavor text makes using it pretty risky.
As far as I know players never wrote flavor text that something programed in. Now flavor text is changing from something for color with no real effect to a description of special characteristics of the item. So now players can make a special characteristic of a weapon limited by what ever mats and special efforts are found to be required. So a limit of how rare items and powerful spells you put in the weapon limits to far abuses for the most part.
This reminds me players in the area of dealing with NPC’s now that NPC’s are local players (self aware) instead, the adventures and people of the land are now are writing the history of what was flavor text on People of the Lands holdings. Yep major changes. Even the monsters with intelligence seam to be changing the world around them in some way. (only known way military training)
I was kind of dissapointed with the events from the start of the episode as well. Lenessia’s problems and the happenings at the beach were a bit too vague for me to truly care, and they lacked impact as a result. It could’ve been so much more, in my opinion. Though at least the beach itself looked profoundly alien, I suppose (and it reminded me of Ash Lake from Dark Souls in terms of looks and atmosphere) which made it nice to look at.
The other developments were more interesting though. Like the fact that the writer kind of turned Akatsuki on her head character-wise. Because I’ve seen plenty of shows where the hero’s love interest started out independent and then grew into a glorified cheerleader (or worse, damsel in distress) as the story went on. And with Akatsuki basically starting out already clinging to Shiroe’s side, her new assertion of independence and realization that lacking that is actually a flaw just brings that full circle. I still wonder if it was planned out from the start or if the author realized that flaw in his writing and set about fixing it in this way, but either way, I’m impressed it was addressed at all. That alone is just one of the little things setting Log Horizon apart from so many other shows in terms of its quality of writing.
And then the big revelations that also hit this episode, holy balls. It was one of these moments where it was like being in an interesting lecture (which was ironically exactly what was going on in the show at the moment) in that it made me sit up and eagerly listen to what was being told. The world’s growing bigger and more ‘real’ by the moment? Flavor text actually starts having a purpose? The enemies are actually evolving (uh oh) and growing smarter? That just turns everything around again, and just when the adventurers finally seemed to have a grasp on this world, they lost it once more. It’s fun just imagining the stuff that could happen als a result of it, so LH is certainly good at spurring the imagination.
And man, poor Krusty. That can’t have been pleasant.
I still wonder if it was planned out from the start or if the author realized that flaw in his writing and set about fixing it in this way
If you watched carefully it’s since some arcs that Akatsuki started being out-shadowed by Minori. Minori is growing by the day but Akatsuki is shutting herself down in Shiroes’s shadow. You see how the whole point of the harem thing was far more deep than it looked in the Libra festival arc now?
And what’s more, you see now how even Akatasuki’s own role playing was meant to shut her from human relations too?
The episode started out slow and obtuse
Pls Stilts, re-watch and rethink about the first part because it’s the turning point of two full arcs. If you miss this you miss all of 10 episodes worth of meaning. Do you remember my post last time about how building up was paying off finally?
If you want I can write down more in spoilers after.
It’s not that I didn’t get it (though still feel like Lenessia’s themes keep slipping from my head because they were never enunciated particularly well. I just have to think about them more), it’s just that they weren’t done particularly well in the anime.
I really like the idea of the adventurers sacrificing a bit of their memories in order to show their devotion to “rise once again.”
I don’t mean it in the creepy sort of fashion, but instead a show of their willingness to do better once more.
As for the reveal that the world is becoming more real….I wonder how this ties into the disappearance of the ancient guardians….
The reason they made the beginning part to be slow is to not spoil Shiroe side of story. Show Spoiler ▼
Stilts edit: Spoiler tags, please. Directing anime-only viewers’ attention to certain points counts too.
BTW, remember how William mentioned Show Spoiler ▼
Wow, all the relevations there. Not sure who to give credit here (Mamare for material, director for the work?), but this episode was cary awesome.
The beach part was a bit long for how cryptic it was, yes. It had a pretty nice feel to it though.
I like the way the Crusty scene came out with the animation, it packed way more punch than when just reading it.
On Lenessia’s part in the story, the problem is mostly in converting LN into anime format, at least in my opinion. Her story was mostly conveyed in monologues in the LNs, and with most of those missing, it’s no surprise it ended up pretty vague.
Unfortunately they left out Shiroe’s perspective completely on the beach scene which was somewhat interesting in the LN and that helped to make it vague for people only watching the anime 😐
Just wait a week or two… ‘Gold of the Kunie’ story arc is not over yet.
That’s being covered in episode 10. Just wait a couple of weeks.
Crusty death flag? Maybe not? But wherever he ends up in, you shall be missed Crusty!! TT_TT
If the anime had included Shiro’s side of the beach scene, it would have made a heck of a lot more sense. As a LN reader, I thought, “Oh, it’s that scene. Cool. So that’s how the timing on that worked out,” and didn’t think much about where it was, because I already knew it. But for someone who hasn’t read this stuff yet, you won’t know until you figure it out, someone tells you, or you give in and read the books already.
So yeah, they kind of blew it from that perspective, but remember– THEIR JOB IS TO SELL BOOKS. By leaving a scene here or there vague, they’re urging you to go and read the book.
Lenessia’s problems aren’t all that hard to figure out. Let’s start from the basics: she’s only 15, grew up in a society where women don’t matter, most people are uneducated, and as a princess, has no control over her life, and must live as an appeaser.
Now toss her into a culture of people ALL older than her, better educated, who are free, unbeholden to any rules (above the law?), and who keep bringing up things that she has no idea what they are. Oh, and they’re immortal and auto-resurrect. AND they’re held in very high esteem in her society.
Add to it that there’s someone running around attacking these respected people, “killing” them, and it turns out he’s not only a Person of the Land (oh, great), but a member of the Kunie clan, who’s supposed to be beyond reproach.
And since hime is the representative of the PoL for Akiba, the responsibility for it gets dropped in her lap. Then one of these respected people, who she is starting to like as a friend, rushes off to clean up hime’s mess, and gets killed in the process.
You have to keep track of all that, granted, but it’s all been laid out for you in exposition over two seasons, and it finally came to a head this week.
They could have done a slightly better job of introducing Rize into the anime beforehand, but they’re sticking pretty close to the novels, to which I say hallelujah.
im sure they will include it…in the next few episode…
Question:
Do Akatsuki still remember what had happened on the Limbo Beach after she respawned?
The anime doesn’t seem to provide any clues on this (so far). It’s like Umineko all over again. Oh right, Deen.
The anime, this time makes a better work in mixing dream and reality in Akatsuki’s post-mortem experience. Like any transient dream, Akatsuki tends to forget the details but the positive feelings from her experience remain.
Show Spoiler ▼
There’s some parts in the novel that were cut out in this scene.
Show Spoiler ▼
I think that as the adventures die and have to sacrifice their memories, their memories actually making the world bigger. Maybe the it’s not an Apocalypse they are a part of but a Genesis instead. My Theory anyway.
The whole beach scene made me wonder if Shiroe is staying there to figure out a way for people to get their memories back. It seemed like he was there before Akatsuki showed up and she revived first. On another note, I hope we get to see the rest of the raid.
Trying to convey what the heck that beach is and what Shiroe and Akatsuki were doing with their hair without spelling out to the viewers is difficult. Even in the LN it was spelled out through the characters thoughts. They did a pretty good job considering the limitations of the mediums.
Looking forward to the next episode 😀
Didn’t I read stuff like “I’m just not sure what the meaning was.” or “It smacked of a “meaningful” scene that didn’t convey any grand meaning, so it ended up feeling pretentious.” in the article maybe? What had they to do to convey Akatsuki’s death and rebirth better than that?
The beach scene was actually really meaningful. It just ended Akatsuki’s building up with a new fresh start and renewed and new-found stronger self awareness, and not just hers. More than that it added a full piece of information about memory loss and post mortem mechanism.
Other than that, Lenessia part was connected tightly with Akatsuki’s development. Didn’t you notice how, during the whole arc both Lenessia and Akatsuki addressed the same issues? Both living in someone’s else shadow, unwillingly forced to to task when they’d better like be left to their own devices and relate with other people they didn’t care anyways. In this regard the murder incident had the purpose to shake them from their apathy and make them forcefully seek relation with other people. Lenessia is just like Akatsuki. One was left crying in a room alone and the other tried to force her way alone to her own demise. The beach scene is the final stop of the journey: game over.
Is true we know little of DDD’s people except from Krusty, but Rieze here just served the purpose to let Lenessia relate to her for their similar background. Notice that Rieze role for Lenessia is just the same as Shiroe’s in the beach scene for Akatsuki: A kind of a mediator to let the girl out of her own shell.
Damn @RandomC comment reply failure. This had to be the reply at STILTS about the first part of the episode. XD
I caught the Rieze / etc stuff fine, her involvement was just jarring since she hasn’t really done much yet. As for the beach scene, I understood it all save for the hair thing, it just smacked of trying to be meaningful without any grand meaning—it was overdone. Though that might be solved when they let us anime-only viewers hear that first part with Shiroe that was blanked out this time.
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%202%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2019.jpg
I loved that scene.
Uhm… is it me or Lenessia eyes are more vivid this time around?
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%202%20-%2006%20-%20Large%2003.jpg
Yes; she is blind now that she no longer have any iris
https://randomc.net/image/Log%20Horizon/Log%20Horizon%20-%2013%20-%20Large%2020.jpg
LOL that may be an improvement somehow. XD