(Ore ga Kanojo ni Kokuhaku Nante Aru Wake ga Nai / Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii / Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai.)
“Little Sisters Can’t Fall in Love With Their Older Brothers! / My Little Sister Is This Cute / My Little Sister Can’t Be This Cute.”
Wow. Just wow. Love, rejection, fighting, magically healing faces, and too many awkward moments to count. The strength of these episodes was too strong that I forced myself to go to bed so I could cool off and give a more objective presentation of this show. Of all the endings that I’ve watched, this is the show that’s elicited the strongest reaction of me from any show, regardless of how good or bad that reaction was. Let’s dive in and well…take this apart slowly.
For the sake of saving space, a hybridization of both the normal post style and the filmstrip post style has been used here. If you want to access the rest of the screenshots, the end of each episode section has a spoiler tag that contains the rest of them. Enjoy! ^_^
It’s been awhile since the previous episode of Oreimo came out, so any leftover feelings I had from the end of the season had mostly tamed themselves. Due to the massive amount of spoilers leaking through the internet though, I had some idea of what the “end” was going to be like, or rather who would “win”. With this in mind I thought I was prepared to see the hook-up, get-together, and possible time-skip of our prime couple, but I thought wrong. Oh so wrong.
But first, a look at each episode and general comments about them. The first one should be fairly obvious–that Kuroenko scene was absolutely painful to watch. Putting aside the fact that episode 14 introduced itself in a fairly random manner, and casting aside the luck that Kuroneko and Kyousuke met randomly, the scene itself was hard to bear. No matter who you support, seeing Kuroneko’s hopes and dreams rip apart by her own hands and shatter the master plan she’d cultivated for so long, that was painful. Hanazawa Kana did a wonderful yet bittersweet job expressing that in her screams and curses, in expressing the hurtful notion that being number two SUCKS. Compound that onto the fact that one of Ruri’s sisters was looking forward to seeing kind onii-chan again, and you’ve got a recipe for “my life sucks so much right now.”
Although her plans stated that she was fine with whatever Kirino and Kyousuke did together, in fact we could interpret this as another illusion that Kuroneko hopes her first love will break. Kuroneko copes with the constant disappointment she holds in her life by attributing it to the fantasy chuunibyou-like world she loses herself in, but secretly hopes that those sad illusions can be erased. Kyousuke rejected that notion entirely, instead fulfilling her fantasy and as such, hurting Gokou Ruri inside. Kuroneko provided a quick getaway to hide sadness, but undoubtedly, this was the last straw for Gokou Ruri.
This unfortunately sets a terrible tone for the rest of the episode, much less the rest of the series. We immediately switch to a Kyousuke who is obviously looking for another opportunity to grow closer to Kirino, where the tone has immediately switched from sad and serious to the show’s usual cheerful manner and wind-instrument music. It’s too quick a switch to properly appreciate Kyousuke’s efforts, because at best we see Kyousuke as bringing necessary painful news, at worst as being a total dick and creeper. After all, in these last few episodes, he really amps up the ‘I know you so well, let me show off my knowledge!’ levels, which in turn can be easily interpreted as creepy and clingy.
But hey, these are siblings who self-proclaim themselves as creepers anyways, so for Kirino, it’s uncomfortable from a girl’s standpoint, but as family, she sees the value in Kyousuke’s efforts and goes along with his proposals. The usual Oreimo ridiculousness ensues, where hotels are rented, awkward bumps into other characters ensue, and of course all the bickering in-between. This would all be alright of course, if not for the previous scene that leaves an awful taste in one’s mouth.
It is at this point though that things start accelerating quickly, to the point where it’s hard to fathom where the motivation for most of these actions came from. Why did Saori, her sister, and the recently-rejected Kuroneko come to boom Kyousuke’s confessions to the entire city (something that apparently was overlooked by Policeman, Father Kousaka). Why did Kuroneko have a microphone on her person to record all this? Why does Kyousuke have to be so loud in proclaiming his love to Kirino, and why so soon with two more episodes to go?
Finally we do get the confession, and it’s all set right? We’ll see Kirino and Kyousuke happy together, and while she may be resistant to having such a relationship, they can take things slow and be happy. But no, no no, Kyousuke skips ALL of that and immediately goes for the kill–a marriage proposal, which Kirino accepts surprisingly easily, despite calling her brother crazy beforehand.
With that, the episode ends, and an awkwardly inappropriate picture of Kuroneko displays itself during the ED. Wow. What a way to start the beginning of the end, because at this point, what’s going to happen? I knew something along these lines would happen, but marriage? Rejection of Kuroneko with an awful backfire? At this point, I couldn’t possibly believe there were more episodes to come, but there were, and the finale was only a third of the way done.
Enter episode 15 and the awkwardness just doesn’t stop. It wasn’t the wincest, trust me–I’ve seen titles like Yosuga no Sora and countless imouto shows where the wincest didn’t bother me, but something about Oreimo made this entire proceeding hard to digest. It wasn’t a love hotel this time, but proceeding to play eroge even in a serious situation as a marriage proposal, it all rings to a very forced rhythm. I get that Kyousuke and Kirino are two people united by the power of eroge, but the entire scene where visual novels continued to guide their way of thinking was so out of this world of logical thinking–it was a surreal scene that subsequently was hard to relate to.
Let’s not forget about our lovely idol though, Kanako of the small ships. When Kyousuke entered that stage and saw Kanako singing her heart out…I immediately knew what was going to happen, and immediately after that questioned the necessity of this scene, or even Kanako’s feelings in general. It was grating to watch Kyousuke have to reject Kanako-Meruru’s dramatic proposal, though I suspect that’s the point–Kyousuke must suffer to prove his love for his little sister, and as such must reject every girl that’s ever loved him throughout this series. I understand Ayase, Kuroneko, and Manami of course, but isn’t three rejections enough? This part, while still painful, felt awfully tacked on and whatever actual purpose the confession had was lost. Actually, I’m more bothered by the fact that the fanbase thought nothing of the confession and kept cheering after the rejection–a true parody of otaku culture would’ve had the entire audience chasing down the cruel Kyousuke for miles.
Aside from the though, episode 15 wasn’t all that bad, especially in the conclusion. Episode 14 left a bad taste in my mouth, but the end of 15 gave me hope. It rung true to a more honest and much more admirable dynamic that Kirino has fostered for Kyousuke–her efforts to become noticed by the person she’s always admired and looked up to is one that is not only easy to relate to, but also one that makes us feel good about her efforts. It allows us to see the merits that their wincest has despite the social stigmas, and why exactly Kirino tries so hard for him aside from the fact that, “he’s my brother!”
In fact, this scene would’ve been much better placed instead of the Christmas confession scene–while we do lose out on Kyousuke bending his back again in public, it allows for a much more natural and heartwarming engagement that allows us to sympathize with their bond, even with the weirdness packaged in.
Alas, such warm moments were not to last. At this point, many of us were lead to believe that we saw what was going to happen, but alas, Oreimo still had a few more twists to keep the audience surprised, for better or worse.
Finally, timeskip. It looks like Kirino and Kyousuke have kept their secret fairly under wraps, as most of the people that surround Kyousuke act blissfully unaware of the situation. It feels like a normal Oreimo episode, where everyone gives their heartfelt and honest feelings through their weird little otaku quirks, and overall everyone is cheerful of the future ahead. Moments like Sena’s hesitance and Kuroneko’s mirage self remind us of the path we’re still following, but for the most part, it’s as if the drama hadn’t occurred. This was the Oreimo that I treasured, where drama isn’t completely forced and good feelings can be felt abound.
But even that cannot last, as the so called “final boss” had to rear its head. I’ll admit, in isolation the fight scene and subsequent denouncement of incest was a breath of fresh air–I was completely caught off-guard by the amount of violence and change-of-face that Manami had at her disposal (and disappointed she didn’t turn into Pirate Eyepatch Manami), and the things she said were pretty much true. The pond of hesitant friends and socially polite people is completely drowned by the normally soft-spoken Manami, who in her last efforts to be with the person she loves, tries her best to destroy the love she sees in front of her. To her, the answer is in black and white, as she can only see pain in their future together, as the choices they make now will adversely affect them for life.
But hey, Kyousuke and Kirino have gone way too far now to back out–one must face their fate head-on and follow it through, despite the consequences…right? The power of love conquers everything, right? People hold their promises, right? Apparently the ironic questions are lost in this show though, as cheesy and irrational defense stops Manami in her tracks, destroying her decades-long hope of protecting Kyousuke from what she perceives as self-destructive behavior. That arching back cannot be broken, and apparently is the final nail in the coffin for Kirino to finally be wed to her beloved…
But it doesn’t end here, not even close. Some of us thought we had it figured out, but the insane cop-out at the end surprised us otherwise. It’s a cop-out that I hope everyone can agree leaves a terrible taste in one’s mouth, regardless of how one may interpret the results. Sure, one can make a legitimate claim that they fought hard for what they’ve loved for their entire life and now they must accept reality…but it just seems insane that “going back to being siblings” could even be remotely possible. There is no point in going back at this point–Ayase, Kuroneko, Kanako, and Manami have completely been alienated from both of them as a result of this, and no amount of maturity that the two of them supposedly developed will ever supersede those losses. Their entire life has been changed because of the rash decisions they made to involve everyone else in, where they must now face the burden of their past forever. The show doesn’t try hard enough to play on this theme though, instead attempting to find a balance between the light-hearted tongue-in-cheek attitude of old Oreimo with the actual troubles of incest. They don’t dive deep enough to explore the reactions of key players such as Ayase or the Kousaka parents, nor do they make it light-hearted enough to enjoy as a happy innocent ending. Instead, we are presented with a dramatic ending that tries too hard in too little time, following a disastrous path that is at times nigh-impossible to relate to, and worst of all pulls out at the last moment, leaving MUCH to be explained.
Due to my work on the podcast, final impressions will be put here tomorrow, but as one can tell, these last few episodes were not the most enjoyable for me to be surprised with. My final impressions will definitely be gentler on the series as a whole, but overall I still feel disappointed with what the second season delivered–a forced romantic comedy end. I can see what merits this finale delivered in terms of the strategic and strong reactions it elicited, but in terms of enjoyment, my heart cannot lie.
My main gripe with the second season of Oreimo’s second season was that it lost sight of what made the first season so glorious: a fun parody and reflection of the world of anime, otaku culture, and the industry itself. While it didn’t go through as many parody hoops as say, Genshiken, the first season employed many self-referential and cultural jokes that made its characters easy to relate to. Though their attractiveness is by far above the stereotypical average otaku, their personalities and the way they go about their hobbies rings all too much true. Not many shows have been willing to change up the OP and the ED sequences so many times, but Oreimo did it, all while self-referencing its ability to do it in the show itself to rub it in. It seemed that everyone watching had their character to relate to, even if other characters pissed the crap out of them–something that’s telling of how we perceive other groups in otaku culture. To top it all off, it included a flawed but admirable tale of a brother supporting his sister despite her flaws, exemplifying selflessness even at the cost of being labeled as spineless (though it seems he’s actually lost his spine in the second season. How else would he be able to bend his back that way? HEY YO~). Kyousuke had his motivation to help his little sister out, and Kirino had her struggles to reform the relationship that she’d lost for so many years. The romance between the two, “romance”, was still very tongue-in-cheek at this point and as such incest and the such was merely a commentary on the little sister trend that had been dominating the industry (and arguably is still) at that time. The animation was excellent, the voice actors well rehearsed, and by golly there were so many subtle details to the show that helped cement the legitimacy of the setting.
The second season still had some of these aspects, but by far nowhere sufficiently enough. The parody gave way to focusing in on the side-characters–which would’ve been good if the show wasn’t rushing to get through every single character. Unfortunately, instead of focusing best on what the core fanbase enjoyed–more references to the meta-culture–the show leaned more on developing a romantic comedy nature that only had bits and pieces of the setting involved. The show sort of preserved a balance in the earlier episodes such as with Saori’s arc, but as soon as Ayase’s arc began, the setting went out the window. Suddenly it was just a rom-com fest of girls trying to win favor with Kyousuke all at once, with characters like Kanako showing their feelings out of nowhere. Most of this would’ve been forgivable if not for the fact that the lead-in for developing most of these character’s feelings practically was non-existent in the show (light novel readers have always been outraged at Ayase’s arc being butchered), where the show even had the balls to make five-second references to them, only not to be seen again (I’m looking at you stalker). The core of the show had been cast aside, and what new course it attempted to go on was a huge mess, attempting to develop multiple paths at once.
However, not all of it was bad–some parts I genuinely enjoyed. Kuroneko’s arc was most enjoyable to watch, as the show did great justice in giving Kuroneko a balance to her colder edge with chuunibyou antics filled with affection. I never really considered myself a Kuroneko fan in the first season, but the second season proved to sway me to dual-board the Kirino and Kuroneko ships. Ruri and Kyousuke’s affection, though naive, was filled with genuine youthful love that I couldn’t help but kyah at their sweetest moments. Kirino’s development with Kyousuke also was a nice sight to see pre-finale, as her progress in showing affection to her brother and vice versa was a nice character development to witness. Although the second season didn’t hold up the OP animations up to standard with the first season, the variation of the EDs still kept true–a nice touch of constancy to the animation, which by the way was comparably good to the first.
But alas, most of the good things I named above seemed to crumble completely with the end. Any sort of character development went straight out the window as the characters all did seemingly contradictory or unjustifiably unexpected actions that only served to muddle the plot. At the end, you wonder (in a bad way from confusion) just how the characters feel about each other in the end, or even what the status is on some characters. Ayase just disappeared the entire three episodes, the mother and father had no involvement at all in a show that’s concerned with incest, and Kanako’s confession makes me shudder just thinking about it. I guess at best you could call these last three episodes a violent reaction and reversal of the stereotypical rom com conclusion, where the girls are often left in limbo as to whether the main character digs them–but that’s a stretch on my part. It seems more like lazy character and plot advancement than any sort of literary trick given what the show pulled off. So many loose ends are never tied up and even more needless plots are advanced hastily, leaving a bad taste in your mouth no matter who you were rooting for.
Thus, I have to say that this second season has been a flop as a whole, though not without its good parts in the middle. I, for one, will be washing the bad taste that this finale left, and will proceed to see how the PSP visual novel endings conclude–to be able to choose my own ending is a blessing that this franchise has given us, even if the anime failed its ending for the majority of us. Go forth and find the good end you were looking for, because man, it sure isn’t here.
Despite this whole fiasco, I did enjoy blogging the show itself and having the honor of using the filmstrip format to achieve those means. Though much more time-consuming, it was a treat making those description texts for you guys and writing about this show when it excelled. Of all the shows I’ve watched, perhaps this show has been the one to elicit the strongest reaction from me, mainly because I was one of many who was trapped into supporting one camp, only to see that no camps survived in the end. It’s been a pleasure sharing in rage and happiness about this show with you guys, and I appreciate all the comments you’ve all left, no matter how controversial they may have been. Thanks for everything, and thank you for reading my thoughts on one of my favorite (first season) shows. Thank you dear reader, until next time ^_^.
“…the author suggests pretty clearly that his true intention in the ending was held-back by Dengeki Bunko’s editorial policies…”
Can’t be helped really: policies is what keeps a company alive.
To be honest, it really could’ve been helped in my view. You can go all about keeping the company alive or what not, but when you alter an author’s vision (especially at the very end like they did here), you arguably got no real business running a company in the first place, not to mention you’re probably going to end up with a result that damages impressions more than anything, and that’s the result we got here.
In general I make it a point to be pretty lenient about the shows I watch and it takes a lot to really get me angry, but yeah, this publisher pushed ending managed to do just that. You just don’t change things as they were meant to be after having it set up that way for 95% of the series. And really, it’s a pity, because it really brings down what’s otherwise been a fairly pleasant series. And that’s not even without mentioning the pacing issues and the nonchalant way they went about “wrapping loose ends” (especially the whole Kanako bit).
Listen to the upcoming podcast (shameless plug!) and you’ll hear me talk about this at great (and vehement) length, but the publisher meddling with the author’s vision to this degree is disgusting to me. As a storyteller, the thought of someone else coming in and telling me I can’t tell the story I want to tell… *shudders*
I don’t plan on going through a publisher for the book I’m writing, and people often ask me why. This is why. I don’t want masters and I don’t need their help. Why give others a chance to mess with my story? Screw that. That’ll only lead to more of this.
Up until the recent rise of self-published books, corporate meddling in ‘art’ has pretty much be a fact of life. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I personally think editorial oversight is important, if at least for the objective feedback. A book goes past lots of eyes before it gets to publishing; this is a good thing. Sure, as a writer I’m entitled to my artistic vision etc, but that doesn’t guarantee that what I write is going to be good. Worse, there’s no guarantee that what I write is going to sell, and artists need to eat too.
For those of you who played Mass Effect 3 and followed the brouhaha over the ending, you may know how that goes. Frankly speaking, for the developers to cite ‘artistic vision’ and assuming that makes their work a sacred calf is insulting, especially for heaps of creators out there who work well with their editors, come to terms with their own flaws, and always strive to improve. For a more mainstream example, consider the Star Wars franchise: Episodes 4 to 6 were certainly subject to more ‘corporate meddling’ while the prequals featured George Lucas basically let free to run loose. I would say that 1 to 3 have a lot more bad-writing issues than the old films because of this. No writer has ever benefited from an unchecked ego.
Of course the flip side is bigotry, prejudice, censorship, and your publisher paying you squat for royalties. That we can all rally against. But it still remains that artistic vision is only sacrasanct only so long as you don’t want to show anyone your work. There is no reason the public has to care.
Please don’t misunderstand – I love editors. Editors & proofreaders keep a writer from being shitty. The difference is that they advise, while publishers can demand. It’s a new phenomenon to be able to distribute without them, but now that it’s here, why deal with them? I don’t see the reason to give up control and risk this, other than fear.
As for whether the story works or sells, that’s still up to the creator in the end. Being true to an artist’s vision doesn’t preclude failure, but then again I never claimed it did. I’d just rather see that than whatever manages to get past the suits.
But really, this is a conversation for another place. I’ll just leave off by saying that I’d rather people get pissed because someone followed through with their vision (Mass Effect 3) than because someone meddled and they couldn’t (this). It may not be better, but at least it’s what they wanted us to see.
If you wanted a pratical answer to ‘why publishers’, I guess what publishers have is infrastructure. Getting a physical book on a shelf, rather than just on Kindle, takes a lot of resources. Not just the draft readers and editors and copy editors yada yada but also marketing and research and all that finicky business stuff that most people don’t want to deal with. I don’t know how it works with Japan and for long serialised light novels, but getting stuff published involves a lot of shopping around for a publisher who will actually take your work.
I do not disagreed that getting your work shut down by the man upstairs sucks the big one. But it’d be unfortunate if this little fiasco ends up creating the impression that editor and author are enemies. Well, often they are, but ideally the relationship is one of constructive cooperation. But I believe that neither side are infallible and ‘artistic vision’ is ultimately malleable, and that may just be me.
I suppose if I have to add anything to this, it’s that the LN makes it at least a little less cop out-like. Mikagami’s little spaz session about having a 2D wife is actually a serious conversation in which he basically tells Kyousuke that even though society doesn’t acknowledge them as being married, all that matters is what he feels. And then of course at the end, Kirino actually asks him to buy her another ring (which is okay because they’re siblings), so Kyousuke gets revenge by using the “one command” deal and kisses her (on the lips, not that weak-a** cheek stuff).
Essentially it’s a rather obvious Kirino end, disguised as a nobody end. The problem with Oreimo is that it’s not an R18 product like Yosuga no Sora and so kids actually can get their hands on such things. As an anime Yosuga, I would assume, had to be sold in the adult section due to the depiction of sex and all that in it, so all the little children were protected. Kids are just a little too impressionable and obviously might not be capable of understanding the exact issue of what Oreimo and Yosuga were presenting and might instead cheer on the characters. In Oreimo at least, the characters themselves “end” the relationship so as to tell the kids that it even the characters themselves acknowledge it as bad. And as I said, kids’ reading comprehension tend to be lower than that of an adults, so they likely won’t get the hints.
Yeah, it sucks that the author couldn’t really do what he wanted with the ending, but I do think he presented it in a way in which you could tell what the ending he wanted was while still abiding by his editors and publishers wishes. I would have liked a true conclusive ending as well, but what can you do. I at least enjoyed the ending for what it was. Maybe back in 2008, when Fushimi-sensei started the story, he could have done what he wanted and we wouldn’t even have this conversation. If you really want to blame someone, blame Ishihara.
Hmm interesting, moral controversy surrounding a story with incestual themes? Wonder what’ll be next bestiality?…XP
So in short, I guess…think of the children? In more ways than one?
I also wish for more people to read the Light Novel.
It has a lot of insight on Kyousuke’s thoughts and feelings while rejecting the other girls that really display his determination during all of it. Not to mention all the build-up scenes that have been cut.
Exactly. The reason alot of viewers are getting so many mixed feels is because there was a lack of elaboration in these last 3 OVA’s. That’s too short to condense the details from the LN. Developments feel rushed. I also agree and suggest others to read the LN and maybe play the game if you didn’t like the perceived ending. You can create your own ending there. Heck, from where the last OVA left off, Kyousuke could always go back to Kirino or any of the rejected heroines, at least from what I interpret.
IMO though, it ended where it should have ended – open end, for us to speculate. And no girl truly won, unless of course you consider Kirino the winner with that finale kiss. Sort of bittersweet and tends to leave a sour taste in one’s mouth. We’re then left to decide, whether or not they get together again or that was it, they’re siblings forever. Obviously, I’m kind of shocked by the recent developments, but I’m even more speechless by the fact that this anime has finally ended. It’s been a journey watching OreImo since 2010. This anime hooked alot of us, had its high moments and down hills, and ended with a “whoa what just happened?” Perfect anime? Far from it. But I’m glad to say that I enjoyed this craziness of a ride called OreImo while it lasted.
It’s one of the things that makes me think this adaptation failed hard. They chopped away so much of the development between Kirino and Kyousuke that the end result is that people didn’t see any development between them, unless they pay attention really close.
So people should really read the LN. It’s at Baka-Tsuki right now.
Thanks for these LINKS! btw . omg Oreimo, i just can’t say anything (still in shock)
Looks like there won’t be a a 3rd season, since the light novel has ended as well.
That’s where the fans come to save the day! I look forward to the fanfiction/doujin where Manami becomes a eyepatch pirate with amazing healing powers who beats up everyone with her bare fists years from now…
…I swear it’ll happen. Don’t laugh guys! D:
Obviously, the ending is terrible it literally shattered everything that built up into a fuck you this is the end
No, I think A-1 Pictures should made Season 2 into 25-26 episodes! I’m kinda disappointed that they missed the opportunity to expand the series, only to be held back with the episode count thanks to Aniplex.
Besides, I think this ending is better than Akane-iro, but I prefer Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu’s ending.
Oh wow. So many thing to comment on.
Well for starters after all the explanation the author had to give the fans, I myself am satisfied with the results.
Did you guys know that the author want the incest between them to be more obvious? He said so in interviews and even gives out that “A complete Kirino End, that’s what volume 12 is about”. The publishers/studio, however, has other ideas because of MUH MORALS and whatsnot. IMO its their fault that there are fans completely unsatisfied with the end.
We have seen it before: authors vs publishers/studio. You know what happened to Negima. You all know what happened to Infinite Stratos’ Light Novel. Authors want their way, their bosses has other ideas. Either the author cuts it off(Negima), or bends to their will, like what we see here in OreImo.
Anyway Kirino won. That’s that and even word-of-god says it is. In my case I don’t find it strange: the title and show was about her after all. If you think about it, Kyousuke being paired to other girls would have been even stranger: they’re not the imouto. Character dev? Sure. Romance arc? Why not? But them with Kyousuke at the end? I don’t think so.
So that’s that. I’d give it a 9/10 for a clean end. Id give it 20/10 if the author had it his way, A-1 just had to be misguided moralfags.
It’s not about it being more obvious or not. It’s more so about how the publishers expected us to accept this kind of altered/cop-out ending after we gave so much time to watching the series up until the point. It’s more about principle more than anything.
It’s nice to know what the intended ending was, but that doesn’t change the fact the ending we got wasn’t what was expected or intended, and I’d think most people who are angry aren’t angry at the author at all, but more so just at how the publishers messed this up and how they crossed the line in terms of what should and shouldn’t be done.
Because, Zephyr, if they didn’t trim the ending there could have been an inquiry to the publishers and/or the studio due to the incest bit. It was a hot topic in Yosuga No Sora but the health ministry gave it an “A-Ok” because it portayed the end as a bad end(though it wasn’t and the canon implied Sora and Haru even had a kid.)
That WOULD have given Oreimo a more mature rating which is what the publishers are trying to prevent.
The point is you should do everything you can to preserve your author’s vision, and they failed to do it.
And even if you consider the other politics involved, if they knew the incest ending was going to happen and they were going to prevent it, they should’ve asked for some kind of revision that made it so that the series doesn’t set up that result. Yet they didn’t step in until the very end and let the whole series set-up that result, then promptly changed the final result, and tried to make us accept it. That’s just terrible management, terrible writing technique, and it violates everything a writer stands for in terms of the vision they have and the freedom they should be given to write something.
Dengeki Bunko sucks in management then? I’d agree to that.
Wait what happened with Negima and Infinite Stratos and the publishers?
The terribad ending in Negima was a result of Ken-sensei teaching the publishers not to mess with him.
Infinite Stratos light novel author left his publishers due to copyright dispute and he’s not getting any royalties. It has now a new publisher and artist. Volume 8 is translated by Baka Tsuki.
Worst. Ending. Ever! In the light novels, there’s a very strong hint at the end, stronger than in the anime, that Kyousuke and Kirino are still together. My problem isn’t that he chose his sister, I’m fine with incest, it’s that he chose “Kirino”! He has an absolute angel in Kuroneko wanting to be with him, and he chooses the selfish bitch that is his sister. It’s like being offered to live for free in a 4 story mansion with 20 rooms, a swimming pool, a theatre, and then you go, “Nah, that sounds lame. I want to live in the sewers.”
He’d never be happy with Kuroneko. Kuro would never be happy as well. All because Kuro knows how Kirino really feels, and Kyousuke feels responsible for Kirino, as an elder brother.
Also Kyousuke has a lot going on with Kirino. The LN shows just how much.
Lol so many down votes cause of the truth.Kirino is the end girl becaus Ethan’s how the novel is written. We all knew this since day one, yes she’s a crappy character that we all love to hate but you can see how Kuro was planning on ending it with kyousuke anyway because of kirinos feelings for him.
Nah…. People just hate TheMoondoggie thats all.
That’s ok, Alcren, Croos.
I’m not bothered with it because the author still confirms Kirino, best girl, as the one who ends up with Kyousuke, though he was restrained from putting the whole cake in print. Plus no one here has anything that can prove that Kuroneko can be happy given the state of things should Kyousuke had chosen her that night.
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Ok, so from what I am hearing the author did want a full Kirino end but was denied by the publishers. I would of been fine(but still slightly creeped out) with that ending. I was just mad with the anime that the relationship didn’t last until the end, but if this was the case I am less upset with the ending knowing the truth now. Kyousuke didn’t reject all those girls for nothing, him and Kirino lived happily ever after. The End. My mind is at peace again.
I´m with you Kurama-san, he had a beautiful oportunity with Kuroneko, a girl who loved him with all her heart and he threw away all in favor of the most anoying bitch in the anime world. For God sakes I would have been happy with a Ayase ending instead but nooo, kill the hope of most fans with the worst incest ending ever!!!.
I´m not even aginst an incest ending, I was happy with the Sora ending in Yosuga no Sora but there is something in Kirino´s personality that makes me want to kill her. In the rational department Zanibas is right, what´s the point of all of this when everyone you have grown to love you so much is going leave you or wost, reject you for this choice; in the case of Yosuga no Sora Haru and Sora didn´t really care at the end because they have always needed only each other but that sure as hell is not the case with Kyuuseke.
Bottom line, please someone make a fanfiction ending with Kuroneko or Ayase, I think anyone can do an ending better than this!!!.
lol, you shippers are so cute when the anime doesnt go your way
i mean its so easy to distinguish legitimate disappointment from a shippers temper tantrum that a caveman could do it.
I still wish for a Kuro/Shiro Neko Ending.
I just saw the .gif of the catfight at the end. I don’t watch the series, but I loosely follow along of what happens to the series. Anyway, catfight seemed intense!
Kyousuke got really loud by the end of the series didn’t he? While these last three episodes made me cringe throughout, I will admit that that there were some really good moments too. Makabe’s freakout was hysterical and this,
was amazing. If Manami had been a little more forceful in pursuing Kyousuke than she probably would have been my favorite heroine.
Loud like this? (courtesy of Xumbra)
^ Don’t try this at home, folks.
Stilts has a sore back now because of this. He’s right guys. We heard the pain through Skype.
It’s true. My kingdom for a massage! ;_;
Seeing Kyuuske confessing his love for his sister so prouly made me remember a story of J.R.R. Tolkein called The Silmarilion and The Children of Hurin:
It tells the tragic story of Turin Turambar. Turin´s father Hurin had been curse by the evil god Morgoth to watch his children fall into misry, misfortune and despair. for defying him.
The curse made his job in Turin and the warrior fell in love with his little sister Neinor, who has been separated from him at birth. He took her as wife but his happiness didn´t last long because after slaying a dragon the dying beast revealed the truth to Neinor. Horrified because she carried her own brther´s child he threw herself off a cliff and after Turin found out he also commited suecide using his own sword.
Hardly the situation of Kyosuuke and Kirino but stil I find funny how the same predicament can be develop in two very different ways. What do you think Zanibas-san?.
Aversion to sexual attraction between siblings is only semi-inherent. There is evidence that the operative cognitive mechanisms are inherent genetic evolutionary byproducts but for these mechanisms to be activated there is a prerequisite that the people in question be raised in close proximity to one another from a young age. And so long as this condition is fulfilled these mechanisms will usually be activated regardless of whether any true genetic relationship exists (Which means it operates between most adoptive siblings too). This mechanism is known as the Westermarck Effect.
The case of Turin and Nienor is actually a classic example of what can happen when two siblings of the opposite gender are raised apart and I am almost certain that Tolkien being the genius that he was actively strove to maintain the scientific plausibility of his story. The cognitive mechanisms behind the Westermarck Effect fail to activate because the two were not raised in close proximity from a young age (Typically, the cut off point cited is six years of age). Without the Westermarck Effect in place when two siblings unknowingly meet what often occurs is genetic sexual attraction, where one becomes more intensely sexually attracted to people with similar facial features to themselves- and because siblings often strongly resemble one another through no fault of their own incest ends up occurring.
Kyousuke and Kirino’s case on the other hand is extremely abnormal because they were both raised together for all their lives. For cognitively normal individuals (Which these two presumably are) The Westermarck Effect should be intact. When it is not in place this is usually indicative of an abusive, one-sided relationship where one party has aberrant, psychopathic tendencies and dominates the other. A large age gap between the two parties is also frequently observed because this enables the psychopathic party to dominate his/her victim. The victim might subsequently develop Stockholm Syndrome and grow to “love” her/his aggressor.
So you see what happened in this show (Two otherwise normal siblings falling in love) is actually exceedingly rare, so rare in fact that I’d venture to call it nigh implausible. I can’t imagine it occurring in real-life without a perfect storm-type scenario where both siblings are somehow wired with deficient Westermarck cognitive mechanisms that are overwhelmed by a perfect alignment of psycho/social/emotional factors bolstered perhaps by having one or both parties score highly on the general sexual attractiveness scale.
Over both seasons of this show I have seen nothing that is suggestive of the aforementioned scenarios. Kyosuke and Kirino seem to be cognitively normal, which rules out an abusive psychopathic relationship (In any case even if they weren’t normal no abuse ever occurred). They were raised together for all their lives and aren’t too far apart in terms of age which also rules out proximity and age-based inactivation of the Westermarck Effect. Which leaves us with the perfect storm scenario- but the actual events of the show are hardly indicative of this either.
Playing games/reading manga that contains incestual themes alone is not enough to overwhelm a genetically ingrained instinct that is as powerful and nigh universal as the Westermarck Effect, especially in cognitively normal individuals. Equally powerful forces are required like perhaps the trauma of abandonment by negligent parents due to poverty where all the two siblings had for many years was each other in a harsh world where nobody else cared. OreImo contains none of this.
Being familiar with the Westermarck Effect and the cognitive dynamics behind it OreImo as a whole, especially with this ending, felt rather uncanny to me. Because between two cognitively normal siblings what we know about human psychology renders the formation of an incestual relationship more or less impossible in the absence of any extraordinary factors such as separation from a young age, or an emotionally charged perfect storm scenario. With Turin and Nienor Tolkien likely did his homework and consequently managed to kept his science straight. With OreImo, well let’s just say that I don’t think Fushimi has her cognitive science down all that well- or at all, for the matter. Not that is matters I suppose- the vast majority of folks are unlikely to be familiar with the Westermarck Effect or even care about cognitive science to begin with…
Zen it had been suggested in discussions in 4chan that the separation and abnormality in the effects of the Westermarck Effect stemmed from the “Cold War” that happened between Kirino and Kyousuke which followed immediately after Kyousuke became beta.
They never talked, never engaged in anything siblings do. It was this situation that alienated the two from each other.
Bad assumption. The Westermarck Effect is said to take hold before the age of six and endures throughout life. It is not erased later in life simply because you don’t get along with your sibling during your teenage years. If I recall correctly I’m quite certain that the show explicitly states during the first season that they were always together when they were little…wiki check…yes, the OreImo wiki does indeed say that they were close when they were young and always together.
Quoting the wiki:
So the Westermarck Effect holds.
Places like 4chan, 2chan and to a slightly lesser but still very great extent Reddit should more or less never be taken seriously when it come to discussions about serious science. I am a very net savvy person who could slap together a working WordPress blog much like this one within a day or two and yet I stay away from places like that. Why? Because they’re the dregs of the internet, filled with socially irresponsible trolls, philosophical extremists, immature children and their like- I do not wish to associated with anything of the sort. 99% of the stuff that goes up on those sites, particularly the two “chans” is brain-dead bullsh*t that under most circumstances is nothing but a waste of my time. Total anonymity has begotten us a Hobbesian chaos on these sites to the point where besides being a forum for anonymous discussion they’ve become a veritable treasure trove of data about humans in a state of nature without social consequences…
They seem to be very thorough about thing though Zen, contrary of what you say. They even have research materials and links to studies that refute Westermarck.
Also they do site real life cases of incest when the LN end was first argued about. I don’t know why are all of you guys afraid of that site but its a good place to leech of research materials.
tl:dr You shouldn’t underestimate the “abyss of the internet”.
Links mean nothing. Any fool with an internet connection can look something up online and provide you with links to numerous studies for or against a certain opinion. Whether that lot actually has the requisite aptitude/training to truly understand the intricate nuances of these studies and actually provide a scientifically meaningful discussion is doubtful- drawn from the dark underbelly of society as they are. “Channer science” is pop science at its worst, pseudo-scientific discourse between people who know next to nothing about the deep scientific intricacies of the issue at hand- it’s bad science. Only on the “chans” it’s far worse than usual because the people engaging in these discussions are grossly disproportionately drawn from the most dysfunctional parts of society…
Anecdotes also mean nothing in terms of science unless you have sufficient understanding of the matter to identify and correlate the actual operative scientific mechanisms behind them. I sincerely doubt that any 4channers were able to do anything beyond just telling a plain old story about some poor chap who got caught in the trap of incest…
Meh, I’ll take the “to see is to believe route.” They did take Wikipedia as first main source.
Look at the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect
“The authors conclude that the case of the kibbutzim actually provides little support for the Westermarck Effect and that childhood proximity cannot in itself produce sexual avoidance without the existence of social pressures and norms.”
I’m well aware of that study. But one study does not by itself shift the weight of the evidence to the other side and the dominant view in modern psychology has been and still remains that the evidence more strongly supports Mr. Westermarck. There are more recent studies indicating that women instinctively find faces which closely resemble their male siblings’ to be less attractive and studies about the Westermarck Trap (mentioned in my first link) in China where female children are adopted at a young age and expected to marry a couple’s biological son- which the poor women find to be absolutely abhorrent.
But studies are beside the point. The point is that the dominant view in the scientific world is in favor of the Westermarck Effect and against Sigmund Freud. Could they be wrong? Maybe, but the probability of a bunch of trained experts being wrong is FAR SMALLER than the probability of a bunch of id*ots on Reddit or 4chan being wrong (To put things into perspective, if I had a dollar for every time 4channer made a mistake about science I’d be richer than Bill Gates; if I had to live off of a dollar every time an expert was wrong I’d die of starvation within a month.)- on anything at all for the matter, not only the science of incest. So I’m more inclined to trust the experts, especially considering that their consensus at the conception of both ideas leaned in the opposite direction, in favor of Freud and against Westermarck. Mounting evidence over the years slowly shifted the dominant consensus over to Westermarck’s side, which further decreases the likelihood of Freud being right since his ideas were discredited through a process of slow, careful deliberation within the academic community over a long period of time…
And if anything your reply to me is a classic example of the problem. You’re just quoting a study that says “No Westermarck Effect” without truly understanding the scientific nuances behind it, being unable to specifically and clearly correlate it to the case at hand- and without looking at how significant (or insignificant) this singular study actually is in the face of the larger body of scientific work on the matter. I specifically correlated the science to Kyousuke and Kirino’s case in my first comment by clearly explaining how the events of the show are inconsistent with dominant scientific theories on the matter. How many Channers are able to do this stuff? Maybe one in ten thousand if that. And if you can’t do this stuff then your argument, like that of most political pundits, is scientifically worthless, only meaningful insofar as it represents your own subjective opinion, regardless of how many study links you post…
Zen I’m very aware of the nuances. Also I’m not against Westermarck, it’s just that there is THAT small probability that it is wrong.
As a man of science, one might say that it’s ok to be probably wrong. But as one who seeks the truth, I really must question that hypothesis that had results contrary to it.
Plus the page did they there had been several studies made to test and found results contrary with Westermarck. The six-year old cut-off would not have been discovered if not the hypothesis was investigated.
In the end, it’s still a hypothesis, with several pro and con studies made on it. Even if you say that there had been more pros than cons, just having cons still proves that it isn’t perfect and must have more conditions that we know nothing of.
If you’re aware of the nuances then demonstrate it. By specifically relating scientific concepts to the present scenario and disproving my reasoning.
“Man of science?” This sentence alone demonstrates to me that you have no idea how science works, especially in more tenuous fields such as psychology. Every scientific “fact” in history is but a hypothesis. Some are stronger than others having a larger percentage of positive results but all have observations and studies that purport to refute them (Yes, even well-accepted “universal truths” among laymen like Newtonian physics). There is no objective truth in science. The goal of science is not to seek perfect truths but rather to minimize error. The true scientist allows the laws of probability to guide his judgments, he goes with the safer bet. If the laws of probability indicate that x is more likely to be true than y then when studying something that builds off of these two concepts he will assume that x is the case rather than y because it minimizes the chances of error. Here I am merely doing what the true scientist does- I am minimizing error by analyzing the problem using the explanatory model that has the smallest chance of being untrue.
A man of science is a man of doubt. If absolute truths is what you need then I suggest you look elsewhere- religion in particular has plenty of those…
Zen I look at science for the truth or are you saying that everything Science had given us had been only partially true?
Won’t that mean that Westermarck, by your words, then, is partially true? And that there will be cases of exception that may allow an instance, such as what has happened in Oreimo, happen?
The Westermarck effect, or Reverse Sexual Imprinting happens when two people who live close together during the first few years(people now say six years) and they become desensitized for sexual attraction with each other. Right?
Research shows that this even affects the mates they choose in life, with most rating men who looked like their closer relatives as sexually unattractive.
And yet these same people found out that girls who are close with their fathers would also choose men who are like their fathers as potential mates.
Before you write of Oedipus and Electra complexes as incomplete and that many psychoanalysts has different opinions about it, I’d suggest you remember that Westermarck is in the same boat with them. Westermarck should explain why we won’t just go and be attracted to our own mothers/fathers but an experiment recently showed that we ARE unconsciously attracted to people with the same features about them.
You must have heard sometimes about women, telling people that their boyfriend has features/mannerism similar to their brothers or their fathers and that they’re attracted to those. It’s this tiny crack that puts Westermarck in a bit of a position, because he says that this should not have been possible.
You might say that one study, one test isn’t enough to be something that could counter all of the dominantly accepted.
This is what the bishops told Galileo too, you know.
But Galileo broke the table on their heads, eventually. Who is to say that in the future, Westermarck might need changing as well.
Westermarck is still an unsure thing when it comes to explaining incest and the taboo. It could just have been social indoctrination after all. Who really knows? We still are kept in the darkness as to what really triggers it.
Let me ask you a final question: Should no one had told you that incest is wrong over and over, would you have known it?
That is exactly what I am saying. I do not look to science for truth but for understanding because today’s science can’t yet give us those kinds of answers. I seek to understand things to the highest degree that is possible within our currently limited knowledge- I do not seek absolute truth because we aren’t there yet.
It isn’t that what science has given us is only partially true, but that it is yet and will remain for a long time yet incomplete– but that’s okay, because it’s the best we’ve got and this is humanity’s journey after all and I’m proud to be part of it. Newtonian physics for all the reverence that laymen afford it are but pale oversimplifications of underlying, vastly more complex quantum mechanics that we’ve barely scratched the surface of. You thought I “believed” in Westermarck? No, I don’t. All I was aiming to do was to say that OreImo’s ending felt uncanny to me because it contradicted what I perceived to be the most credible explanatory model for sibling incest. Do I “believe” in the model like Christians “believe” in the Bible? Not at all. There is no place for blind faith, or indeed any faith at all within the true spirit of inquiry. The true scientist believes in nothing and questions everything. Anything that appears to be “true” is but a statistical truth for which exceptions may yet be found.
Westermarck and his camp seems to believe that you would. They postulate that social norms against incest are so predominant because it is tied to instinct. Freud on the other hand says that it is purely a social construct. Or perhaps it is an amalgamation of both theories. Believe who you will but at this point in time statistically speaking Westermarck has a better chance of being correct…
it could be argued that she shoulda been less forceful- watching kirinos memories it would seem that if she had just let kirino be then not only would kirino not have become an otaku, but the two would have a normal brother-sister relationship and kuroneko would not have even showed up, taking out two birds with one stone.
Author should’ve just gone with the traditional route of “Kirino is adopted”, instead of this horrible ending.
That would have been a cop-out. And when you are dealing with real incest(implied or not) being “not blood-related” just kills everything.
That would kill my reason why i watch this show!
I watch this show because I want to find out how they would rap up thing with an incest end.
And they DID! They did it that no sibling incest anime genre could. I know yosuga already made an incest end possible for anime but at least I could say that ore imo did somthing different than other incest sibling genre.
I wrote down my impressions as I was watching. So the preceding isn’t formatted well. Dunno if this Spoilers but… YOU spoiled everything too, soooo yeah.
I just sat down for about 3 minutes trying to meditate to make myself think that this pairing was alright. It didn’t work. I’m still as disgusted as I was when I went into the meditation. In fact I was okay with it but then it got more disgusting. Thankfully the characters have a conversation about the perceptions of such on the show so that at least addressed some of the issues that I had with this entire incestuous relationship. Its not like that makes it okay but I’m significantly less grossed out. There have been a lot of very quickly be converging plotlines and even more face palming along the way. But I accept the show for what it is and I don’t know how I stand on it as a whole.
I can’t honestly say I like Kuroneko or Kirino or the ending. Ruri’s whole plan was stupid and manipulative and convoluted. I would have torn myself away from someone who broke my heart just to prove a point too. I have no idea what she was expecting to happen. Even if I didn’t like the incest idea I at least accepted it but, dialing the whole story down to just a sibling experiment left an even worse taste in my mouth. It says to me, when faced with adversity, give up. All they did here was almost needlessly (almost, only because otherwise there WAS full commitment) face the short term consequences of their actions and kill their short term lives. Either their feelings have been sated (which is unhealthy, wishful, and only emulates maturity) or serious long term effects have been put in motion. At least the show acknowledged what it was, even if it tried to be grandiose in how it did even that.
Thankfully,Regrettably, Supposedly, (Take your pick, they all apply) no actual incest occurred, and the two played out their fantasy with full commitment and the reasonable extent of consequences for those actions.
Holy shit I didn’t expect her to punch her. That was awesome. Too bad I’m never buying this now…
Considering how the show is over, I really think spoiler control isn’t needed anymore here. EXPRESS YOURSELF FREELY! As long as we’re not insulting each other, it’s all good.
I don’t necessarily share the same feelings as you do with the incest, but I do agree that the advantages of their resolution aren’t really…clear. It’s true that their feelings have been temporarily sated, but what about after that? One does not simply go back to being siblings, as Kyousuke shows in his final kiss for Kirino. For all the damage they’ve done to the people around them, it’s hard to fathom that they stand satisfied with where they end up at the end of the series. Maybe we’re just missing something significant here that we’re supposed to have noticed (just exactly where their ‘secret’ stands with their friends and family?) that makes sense of their attitudes.
Maybe it’s intentional that we’re left with a strangely open-ended future that looks pretty dark. That, or it’s a cop-out strategy at its worst. It’s all a matter of perspective and how you interpret it, though I myself lean towards the latter.
Oh, I’m fine with incest in anime. But, something about it in this one felt… dirty. It felt very obsessive on Kirino’s part. I think it felt bad to me because it’s literally, the fault of eroge that the idea of loving her brother romantically came to her head, at least in this case. And it felt more like Kirino was the one in love rather than Kyousuke. The entire ordeal feels like he sacrificed his life just to make his little sisters fantasy come true, and not even for an extended period of time. It all just felt so forced. And not in the writing department; in the character department.
I believe it’s the other way around–Kirino’s love for her brother was what drew her to those visual novels in the first place. Also, Kyousuke’s love for Kirino is indeed harder to understand, but perhaps by helping her so much, he sees a side of Kirino that attracts him to her, though that itself is not made completely clear. Irrationality does pervade much of his thinking, which may definitely make it feel forced, but over the course of their bonding together, we can get a picture why he eventually falls for the sister he loves to help.
I do see where you’re coming from though and I do wish that they had expanded on Kyousuke’s line of thinking, especially in the great sacrifices he’s made. We can guess, but in this case, a clear answer would’ve been better than ambiguity–it’s Kyousuke after all!
coolasj19: “I think it felt bad to me because it’s literally, the fault of eroge that the idea of loving her brother romantically came to her head, at least in this case.”
You are wrong, it’s exactly opposite. She started liking sister-eroge because she liked her brother! Over the years her feelings cooled down, because his brother was not acting as she wanted her perfect brother to act. In the end, it’s the life counseling, his selfless behavior and attention towards her that rekindled her feelings towards him.
eroge was just a medium she happened to sink her feelings into, and not the cause of her feelings.
15:10 Episode 13 http://www.crunchyroll.com/oreimo/episode-13-little-sisters-cant-fall-in-love-with-their-older-brothers-622475
I think we’re all on the same page on everything else. Except for when I say Eroge caused Kirino to think of her brother in a romantic way. It’s shown that yes, Kirino did deeply admire her brother before that point, even to a point of not unhealthy (Double negative intentional) obsession. But hey, siblings, I have strong feelings when it comes to my sisters. But, it’s in that moment and going forward from that moment that I think introduced her to the idea of being ROMANTICALLY in love with her brother, on an intimate level. She can’t honestly say that Eroge didn’t catapult her admiration into a love of him. I just don’t know how to feel about that. I could say that the games were merely a catalyst and not the sole reason but, I don’t have any proof to back that up. But, I would love to see it (There might be something in the Light Novel).
Giving it more thought, I MIGHT be able to side a little bit with Kyousuke. He may have torched his short-term love life but, your life really does get a nice “soft reset” when you graduate high school.
This is all with knowledge of the way the author’s original True End in mind. But, I feel like we must judge the show and it’s content presented to us as-is. The author’s True End story is another discussion entirely. But, that doesn’t mean this one should be thrown out.
They didn’t show Ayase’s reaction? Did they ever tell her?!
you know how yandere will react right?
If you were in their shoes would you even think in telling her?.
Yep! Tell the Yandere! A School Days ending would have topped this off nicely!
i’d prefer school days ending for kyousuke then.
I really liked the way they did this end though. I don’t know why I didn’t feel weird when it’s incest, but Kyousuke gave one of the most passionate confessions I have ever seen. I felt that this was a long time coming and that he would give up everything for a fleeting dream is something to be commended for. It was quite a shock though as I never really believed that they would animate the “Sister End” even in a later episode. As much as I’ve accepted their love, I think I still would have loved to see the “Kuroneko Route”. Ah wait, it’s the “Yamineko Route” is it?
People are already up and about with how this ending is “terrible” and so on and I just thought I’d take my own stance on this. Below is an excerpt I wrote on my blog post about the last episode.
(The links are provided in the first comment so I won’t put them there) Now that that’s out of the way, let’s get down to it. Initially, I thought this was completely bullshit. Seriously, after all that time, all that work, all those rejections, all that drama, it just ended with them separated?!?! Afterwards, I actually calmed down and I viewed the ending in a different light. Firstly, let’s put the author’s viewpoint on how it’s supposed to be a “Kirino ending” aside but understand that it’s his intention. Why? Because even if an author intended it to be “route A,” but instead misleads people into thinking that it’s “route B,” the story is still going the “route B” path because that’s how the story is made. It’s not “route A” just because the author says it is. However, if the author says it’s “route A” and people saw “route B” because they didn’t understand implicit meanings, then people must re-evaluate and see if the hinting is strong enough for it to be actually “route A.”
Let me get this straight. If they actually “broke up” and became normal siblings, that would be utter bullshit. All the build up, all the shit, would be ruined. So, this part is arguing for the fact that maybe the author implied that they didn’t actually “break up.” As I said before, incest is not something to be taken lightly. As a result, it’s hard for him to publish a light novel that has “wincest” as the conclusion. What is the only way he can make this work? To imply and to not explicitly state. Remember, we’re pushing the author’s opinion on the ending aside; all that matters is whether he wrote it well enough and hinted well enough to indicate that their romantic relationship is continuing and not cut off.
Manami was talking to Kirino and Kyousuke about the problem of incest. Kyousuke clearly defends his case and admits that while it’s wrong, he doesn’t care because he’ll break those rules. He’s completely adamant about his stance and how he loves his sister. Why then, would he be willing to “break up” with her? After saying all of that to Manami, he’s not going to stick through with it? That doesn’t seem very likely. Moreover, he breaks up with every girl and forces himself into a situation where he can’t be with anyone else. Would he do that just for a few days with his sister? Really? He’s going to break the hearts of all these girls and say, “Well, sorry, I went out with my sister for a few days but it’s okay now!” If he really wanted to be with his sister for such a short period of time, he wouldn’t have had to go through all of that mess with the other girls. They can admit that this is a short fling or keep it a secret because it’s really only for a short period of time. Either way, there’s no reason to conclusively cut off relationships with everyone. You could say that he wanted to remain loyal to Kirino and not be with other girls, but then that poses yet another problem as I indicate below.
The two of them really do love each other. Why, after going through so much, would they simply quit it at that? Their love is not that weak. One could even say that it’s a bit too strong. Kirino even says that “once it’s over, you’ll have nothing left” after Kyousuke’s talk with Manami. She realizes this and she’s just going to cut off the relationship with him to cause him even more trouble? Hell no. They’re not even sad after they supposedly “broke up” so it’s highly unlikely that they returned to be completely normal brothers and sisters. When they promised each other, they also didn’t have anything but a smile on their faces. To add to that, a kiss on the cheek is not something normal brothers and sisters do in Japan. Also, there’s more life advice (demanded by Kirino at the end even though the translation says talk, she really says jinsei sodan which means “life advice”) this means that they are still continuing their “life counseling.” Yes, it’s not the last one so we can assume that the author is hinting that their relationship is still continuing except this time, they are keeping their romantic relationship a secret just like how Kirino asked Kyousuke’s advice on past ordeals that she couldn’t ask anyone else.
Now, on the other hand, you could say that their promise to be normal siblings overrules a lot of the other points. Then again, it’s extremely weird as to why they would be so happy about it which makes me go back to the other point about them keeping it a secret between the both of them and making it seem like they are “normal brothers and sisters” on the outside. I honestly don’t believe that Kyousuke “gained nothing” from this or that they really broke up. If I had to narrow it down to one reason it would be because they fucking love each other and dammit, I may not like the pairing, but Kyousuke sacrificed so many things for her. With how he has pursued Kirino all this way, do you really think he’d settle for just being “a normal brother and sister?”
Personally, I think the evidence of them still being together outweighs the precautions the author had to take to be able to be accepted by Dengeki Bunko which makes me say that, at the very least, it didn’t take away too much from the specials. You could even argue that it added another layer by not going the typical happy ending path and hinted more about how they’re continuing their relationship in secret, life advice style. Also, in some weird way, it kind of reminds me of how I deduced some scenes in Yahari Ore no Seishun as I had to look a bit deeper. Regardless, I’ll give the author the benefit of the doubt on this ending and say that it’s not as bad as many think it is. Though, I wouldn’t exactly say it’s great either.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, as a critic, you have to judge the item, as-is. And as-is, the ending was petty and awful. The original ending the author wanted was much better and I’m pretty sure every can agree to that. Sadly, that’s not the ending that happened. Not that we can’t give credit where credit is due, but still.
I am judging it as-is. I never said the ending is great. I take into account his intentions but obviously if the story sucks then it sucks regardless of what limitations he has.
I’m not going to say the ending is great by any means. I’m just stating a case for a different perspective so people could reassess their opinions on the show just a bit. Some people say “Kyousuke got nothing and this anime is completely pointless” which is not true as long as what I said is strong enough of an argument in favor of it being not so. If some people really do think that Kyousuke gained nothing from this, then their valuation of the anime will be skewed unjustifiably. My main point is that perhaps viewing it in this perspective would not make it as bad as some make it out to be. It may not be good, but it’s certainly not that bad.
I prefer to end this series with the PSP Ayase route. Yeah, this ending never happened. He picked the yandere girl whose actually just a tsundere with a yandere topping. And they had a daughter who Kirino pines over but she doesn’t like her because she thinks Kirino will steal her daddy from her.
I like that ending better.
The least they could have done was do a “three route” ending showing a Kirino one, a Ruri one and an Ayase one.
Oh my, they sure left out some important chunks of the LN. Felt really rushed and forced for ep14. Nevertheless, the ending is satisfying! The anime really brought out the expressions that could not be shown in the LN, but it did not show those monologues from kyousuke that would bring us in deeper understanding in what he is actions.
For those who have time and is not satisfied, have a read on the LN volume12 guys 😀 http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/?title=Ore_no_Im%C5%8Dto_ga_Konna_ni_Kawaii_Wake_ga_Nai
If Kyousuke didnt exsist; none of this woulf have happen..
But then, that defeats the purpose of having a story.
If I could only read WALL OF TEXT.
This baka Kyousuke went SSJ every single time he confessed his love for Kirino. Ohhh one of the best finales I’ve scene, I don’t care what anyone says. I never read the LNs but this is good for me. These last 3 episodes were a doozy.
The Chuunibyo is strong in that Black Cat/Dark Cat/White Cat/etc. <__<.
Wicked Eye Kuroneko VS "Kireru"…I'm horrible at combining names, don't judge me.
Ayase and Kanako… those you can almost overlook. The two of them had a vague relationship with him for a year with Ayase not moving from Yan mode to Dere mode until quite far in and Kanako not making a move until even later. Losing their first loves will hurt but it’s not like they were all that invested.
Kuroneko… that one is tougher. I haven’t looked enough into any material that may have been skipped between episodes 13 and 14 but she broke up with him first even if she may have secretly held out some hope for rekindling it at some point. She lost her boyfriend for good but her friendship with the two of them persisted so she didn’t end up too much the worse for it as she could have.
But Manami… that’s one dick move. Ten years of friendship and who knows how long she’s been crushing on him but unable to move past that stage and it’s all tossed away for a relationship with his sister he knows he is going to backtrack on after graduating. Manami got hit hard here and even after the siblings go back to acting “normal” I don’t know if that’s something you can salvage.
To add onto Kuroneko–you’re correct that she didn’t get it as worse as it could have been, but I still think she has it REALLY bad. The event was one line of many where she loses out to Kirino or some other lucky person, even though in her mind she was making the better effort. Whether it was in publishing, in the success of their favorite anime, or in love, Kuroneko has always been second to Kirino. She toiled to created a plan where she could at the VERY LEAST be on equal footing with Kirino in relation to Kyousuke, but even that was crushed. After all, she ripped up her plans in front of Kyousuke, signifying her own defeat at the hands of her incidental rival and cursing her own fate. They’re still friends, but hot damn, the inferiority complex, the failed plan that Kuroneko must face because the friendship still exists…it sucks.
She has it bad man. She has it bad. It could’ve been worse, but in relation, not by much.
She did it to herself though. She could have won perhaps if she had not ended it herself earlier, the fact that she didn’t try makes it her own fault.
Still you got to admit, all those years of planning and she ended up with the end she was trying to prevent in the first place? She would have done better had she didn’t made that bitch move when they were younger. Kiirno would have outgrown her love for Kyousuke and they could have grew up without all that trouble. It’s her fault in the end.
Tsk, tsk. Getting bit by your own devices.
Well, I don’t think its right to say that you can overlook Kanako and Ayase. Small their investments may be, They still invested time and love. And measuring love is subjective, i.e. what might be a big love investment to you might not be for me, or for Kyousuke. Anyway that’s a bad end for the other girls, and a bad ending for side characters that harem genre inevitably falls into. I know this, I have prepared for this, but still.
I learned to like Kirino this season so I actually kinda like the ending. And it is implied to me that they still are together, and this is the secret that they are sharing. And facing reality, you can really just choose one between all of them but the way Kyousuke rejected them, including Kuroneko and Manami, is a bit harsh. Every scene where Kyousuke rejected a girl tore a piece of my heart away. But the biggest heartache is Kuroneko’s rejection.
Overall, I think this is a good end, and seriously, the title says it all so I was kinda expecting the ending, but I was preparing myself to see a “we’re not really blood related” plot twist, didn’t happen so I guess a plus for this series because it did not ride the bandwagon.
If you guys want another ED, just go play the psp ir watch psp game on english. Its translated anyway.
I’m really trying not to outright say that I ‘hate’ these last few episodes, but I can’t bring myself to like them either. There were soooooooooo many cringe worthy moments, that actually genuinely made me angry and I’ve never been more angry about any series of anime that I have watched(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻) From the moment Ruri began tearing the book to shreds… oh god, my heart… WHY!?!?!?! ;_;
I really thought these last three episodes were stupid. Kyousuke randomly chooses Kirino, trashes relationships with everyone else (and he did say he loved Kuroneko before), and everyone else is fine with it (ignoring Manami). Ayase and parents are not part of the story for some reason. Really, without the last three episodes the story could have easily gone the Kuroneko route, but I think the only way to ‘end’ the story is for it to be about Kirino.
Anyway, I found a link to this on the Crunchyroll forums which explains Manami’s role as the evil mastermind witch, which explains a lot. I can accept the story a lot more now as being focused on Kirino, but I still don’t understand why he would turn down Ayase and Kuroneko (and breaking a promise to her, was that a lie?) for Kirino (which is all kinds of wrong).
Theses last shows destroyed an otherwise great story. I am not saying that the insest thing turned me off to this as much as how poorly the ending was assembled.
The last two shows was just a big disappointment
You know what’s funny I almost thought of this like Mass Effect 3. Everyone was excited to see the last game come up and finish such a great series…
…aaaand then that ending.
Honestly though even though this is a series and not a game it pretty much sums up what they just did. Even though Kirino is great, it was just…how the executed the last 3 episodes. To top it all off some of my friends thought they were getting 3 different endings and it ended up being one(another kind of ME3 like way) AND not the one they were hoping *coughruri-chancough*. First time in my life that I saw a bonified incest ending was pretty lol but MAN it just screamed disappointment. The ending pretty much ruined the whole series for me…
Well just like mass effect end, it affected everyone so much that even the players outside the CPU were affected cauing masss relay of spoiler affecting everyone reading it. Causing eveyone dispear or joy
Well if people complain enough then we’ll probably get an ending well deserved for the series. It just ticks me off HOW they could make a decision like that and not think “well, let’s do it the right way and end it where there’s an ending for all the girls!”
Nope, Chuck Testa.
Who knows maybe they’ll do what Da Capo did and that was make an alternate ending with Kotori instead of Nemu…ugh but I have a feeling it’d make too much sense =_=
“Well if people complain enough then we’ll probably get an ending well deserved for the series.”
It probably won’t be canon and it will be just some doujin game. (-_-‘)
Western audience matters so little to Japanese companies when their main target are their own countrymen.
Those who Complain MAKE YOUR OWN ENDING by playing the game! haha I specially like Ayase Yandere ending 🙂
this had so much win:
-the curses from the Yamineko, the despair of Ruri…
-the Kyosuke support/embarassment squad
-the idol is born out of a rejection
-final boss: Manami, brutal catfight, and cold reality
Show Spoiler ▼
final thoughts/best moments:
Hell hath no fury like Kuroneko scorned…
Manami threatening to report the siblings to the father – and Kyosuke going doormat to stop it.
and this dialogue that is all too deep considering world state in many places:
deep philosophy occurs in starngest places…
I wanted any of the other girls to win. Literally any of them. The entire series I have HATED Kirino. So for her selfishness to also be the cause of any of the other girls (I was actually rooting for) loses, is just another strike against her and the series.
The game was vastly superior. I have heard some complaints about Kirino’s route. But like I said, I hate the bitch and would never do it. Kuroneko saying you can call her “onee chan” is full of win though. And like saturos13 mentioned. Ayase going “school days” on you is pretty awesome for her bad end.
Was already dodgy about this show since s1 was about to end. Never got any interest watching S2 anymore. But I’m just glad to know that Manami gave Kirino a good dicking. And I gotta say. IT WAS LONG OVERDUE. Manami might have took an equal amount of blow but she took it like a champ. Kirino still resorted to “H-Hah! I-I still have Kyousuke! I-I win!”. Whatever…
Pardon to all Kirino fans but I will never like this girl no matter what circumstances she has that turned her into such a brat.
Truly this light novel/ anime a huge disappointment. I didn’t really follow this series (wasn’t enough to take my interest) but I was always curious and read up on wikiedia and fan’s reaction and such so I have a fair knowledge to comment.
There is just so many, SOOO many things wrong and I am shocked this became such a mainstream anime. I don’t care how much the main characters are in love with each other. From what I see here they pretty much don’t care about the people around them, and the whole incest thing is disgusting even though this series treated as love wins all. Not to mention the fact, all these amazing, funny, unique girls, they were created to be pretty much dumped! That’s what defines their character. It doesn’t matter how amazing and interesting they are. The author dismissed every single one of them to glorify Kirino. They are so much better off not dating Kyousuke but nooo, their whole love towards him is what defines them. Not the proper ending given to them. Argh.
All I can say is, I wish Ore Imo author doesn’t have a little sister. If he does he is one sick bastard (even though he already is) and even though I didn’t read the light novel or didn’t watch any episode other than the first 3 episode of season 1, I am just so mad at him.
1. Reading wikipedia and comments are enough source to judge a series.
2. I wish a person who writes about murder mystery to be surveiled 24/7 so he/she never has a chance to kill someone.
1. So you are telling me that the part Wikipedia wrote about Kyousuke dating and marrying his sister is not a fact? It is a fact that Kyousuke dated and married his blood related sister. I may not have watched this series properly but just based on this fact I have every right to comment on this anime.
2. At least with these murder novel the author mostly does not justify the murderer whereas in Ore Imo dating a sibling was portrayed as something that CAN be done as long as you love them. The author glorified it by giving them happiness.
Drift you can kiss, date, marry, have sex with your sister in this reality so long as:
1. You keep it secret
2. You live in New Jersey
Apart from children having chances of being born with a defect, there really IS nothing wrong with two consenting parties being in Incest, it doesn’t produce or result to heinous crimes that affects any parties outside the two.
Unlike most people, I don’t really dispute the rather controversial “wincest” ending (more like, I’m indifferent to whose ship has won) though an epilogue showing how the other characters are doing after the wedding scene would have brought some closure, at least show how the “losers” have moved on, rather than just go straight to credits.
After all, the ending for season 1 did have a ending montage showing what each character was up to as it wrapped up.
Saori Best Girl.
I seriously thought I was reading something that”s NOT from oreimo.
I was literally WTF’ing as I was scrolling through the screenshots. Holy jesus that pissed off Minami face felt pretty scary and out of place (I haven’t read any of the writing here yet).
I’m not so sure if I should watch these, or just pretend the anime ended on episode 13 with an open ending…
To all Kuroneko fan….
I guess……..Show Spoiler ▼
You’re doing it wrong. Not let your senpai show how it’s done before you hurt yourself.
Show Spoiler ▼
Best scene ever!, yeah hate me if you want but that scene really pisses mo off after Kirino start bitchin’ Manami out like that. I have so many facepalm moments in these 3 episodes but I’ll just comment one.
The oreimo series sure is serious business.
Nice punch Manami… Feels great!!!!!
But I felt very miserable that Kyouske didn’t engaged with MAJI(REAL) Tenshi, AYASE
Honestly I didn’t really like these episodes at all. It was extremely awkward. Of course, kyousuke could like Kirino, but I don’t think he’d actually like her THAT MUCH. Like, he literally just threw away all of his relationships for something he knows is impossible, and the worst thing is, he still rejected so many girls even though they agreed to go back to become siblings. Like huh? What were you thinking? He literally has nothing now.
Anyway, I know that it’s adapted from the novel, but I honestly find this very weird. Couldn’t they have done it in such a way, that Kirino and Kyousuke achieve the peace that Kuroneko desires, so that Kuroneko could finally be with kyousuke? They would make a whole new season based on this. But no. They had to end it with an awkward incest that made absolutely no sense.
Why do Kuroneko fans insist that she’d be happy with Kyousuke knowing she’d be inbetween Kirino and Kyousuke. That confession at ep14 isn’t to get back with Kyousuke, it was to:
1. finally move on
2. get that confession recorded
Seriously, didn’t you all find it strange that IF Kuroneko is expecting to be loved by Kyousuke again why did she brought along a tape recorder. It’s like ALL of you have forgotten that Kuroneko WANTED Kirino to win.
So Kuroneko expected to lose. And her aim, from the moment SHE DUMPED Kyousuke the first time around is because she WANTS Kirino to win.
Even though it hurts a lot, I agree with TheMoondoggie here. Sure she did all those things but her real plan was to lose and to reveal Kirino’s feelings under that tough tsun shell. And she succeeded in that.
Maybe she was kinda expecting that Kyousuke will still choose her but sadly for us, It did not happen. I also think that Kuroneko will not be truly happy if she and Kyousuke end up together because she knows Kirino’s real feelings.
Anyway if you really want a happy Kuroneko end, just play the games and create the ending for yourself. That was what I was planning to do because I NEED IT. I can’t live with this ending.
….well. Didn’t realize incent-fetish was so strong among folks here… Such an outrage over the cop-out, huh?
I don’t get it, but hey whatever make you happy, folks. Who am I to judge, eh? Yeah, yeah, I get that “probably” most of you like watching it and not necessarily doing the deed yourself – but even if you’re into that, no matter. I don’t care on what you do on your private lives. Just that sibling incest theme can be written commercially so readily and have so many fans like here is quite amazing to me. Other than that, I am just indifferent on this whole “fiasco”.
I’m sure things like Koi Kaze or KissxSis or something will come out again – why the heck do I know these titles anyway??? :0 Am I… one of you???
That’s not really the point, at least to my storyteller eyes. Personally, I would have preferred a Kuroneko end BY FAR. The point is that they built up to one thing for the entire series and then pulled the punch. For better or worse, they should have committed and seen how it went, not [been forced to] wuss out at the very last second.
Right or wrong, good or bad, in storytelling (and in many things) it’s better to go all in rather than wimping out. Nobody likes that guy.
REMEMBER THE LAST TIME A HOT STUFFS SERIES HAD BALLS TO DO SOMETHING RISKY AND WELL POINTLESS? ENDLESS F**CKING EIGHT? YEAH that killed it… well thats life… everything can and will be a compromise!(taboo theme is still taboo…pointless.)yeah ~~95% or watever is put out there why wouldnt the guy be proud enough? it still gives him a chance to put out more stuff(ova lol true,truer,truest END in the future). unlike the other series its dead and gone.
KissXSis is dead: it’s now TeacherXTeacher.
Not a bad ending…. I guess?
But its better if he ends up w/ one of his harem(like Gennosuke)
The author needs to quit writing LNs and join VNs/eroge as a writer. Clearly, his being held back by his company and not able to express his idea freely.
Wow, this was shit.
Its ok…Kyousuke has another show to show off his brotherly skills if he wants, at Watamote. Though he’s the younger brother this time round.
I couldn’t shake off this weird feeling when I was watching the episodes. Its like they’re trying to rush through the last novel. Like in episode 14 where Kyousuke just rejected Kuroneko and the next scene is him inviting Kirino out for a christmas ‘date’. O well its over.
there were so many funny responses on twitter! . OMG what an ending! glad to have experience this!
What a poor thing they did to my Kuroneko (cries a bucket).
I believe that a harem ending (including the imouto) would make this ending better.
Minimal Ayase in the last three episodes… I mean, even Kanako and Saori’s sister had more screen time. 🙁
Honestly not sure how to explain how I feel about everything regarding the Kirino relationship especially that last copout that was apparently forced by the studio. But this probably sums up my biggest problem the best. Right at the end every single girl suddenly decided that they were going to be in love with Kyousuke just because. Kuroneko had a lot of build up that was part of the story and Manami is even more connected to both of the Kousaka siblings but Ayase and Kanako were just tacted on for more fan service which seemed pretty insulting to me. It’s like their characters were made to love him just so he could reject them as well for more impact. (As far as I understand there is more development in the LNs which would make it more bearable but the way it was done in anime, Ayase and Kanako were just randomly in love with him)
IMHO if these final scenes had happened starting from where Kyousuke is sent out of his home instead of now it honestly would have felt better. They’re close enough that their parents are starting to wonder things so Manami’s speech would fit better and Kuroneko’s breakup being more recent would make it easier than waiting for months just to be completely rejected.
Prior to the release of the OVAs, I had rewatched the first two seasons of Oreimo. I must say, the series kinda lost its charm for me in the second season. Irregular pacing, forced drama, and sudden love confessions, particular from Kirino’s friends, did not seem consistent with everything else going on.
I have no objections against Kirino being the lucky girl out of all of them, but I question whether there was such a need to create such a vast harem. Minami and Kuroneko I can understand, but Ayase and Kanako? This kind of reminded me of Show Spoiler ▼
somewhat that after building up such a large harem, the main character went for the wincest in the end. Is all that distractions really necessary, and should more time have been placed on building up the wincest to begin with?
And the whole going back to siblings thing was awkward. Kyousuke just ruined his relationship with Minami (who I don’t see as ever being his friend ever again) by telling her that he loves Kirino, only to go back to siblings? Kyousuke said it best when confessing to Kirino – he had Kuroneko and Ayase already confess to him, and it will be unlikely he will get such a change in the future again, and that he can’t believe he rejected both of them. Either run all the way down this path, or come up with a solution where things can at least go back to normal…somehow.
Finally, I was kind of hoping that they would have different endings for the different characters in the OVA (e.g. maybe one for Kuroneko, one for Ayase (which ain’t happening after Kyousuke has already rejected her I suppose) and one for Kirino) – aka Yosuga Sora or Amagami SS style. That will be more or less similar to the psp game version, and would be a good way to end for all fans involved.
Very true, with all the time being spent on harem members some of which weren’t even developed well it just seems like a waste in the end. If they don’t really contribute anything to the plot or character development than there’s no point. I think out of all of them only Kuroneko and Manami were needed, though I’m guilty myself as being an Ayase fan after Kirino.
Manami was right, it really is disgusting… for me anyway. I wonder if the Light Novel Author has a sister? Every normal person with a sister will think about it like that. It’s not “wrong” or “against some rules”, it’s just sick and disgusting.
Oh, it’s beyond just that.
Koi Kaze & Yosuga no Sora both spent the time in their setting to produce a valid reason for the possibility to exist. OreImouto never even did that. Going for the “cop out” ending saved at least a little respectibility for Kirino & Kyousuke.
Without the cop out, they’re mentally ill and are in need of serious intervention. Something would be outright broken with their brains. We’re not talking minor issues here. Manami was the only person in the series with their head on straight. So, of course, she’s portrayed at the villain.
The true ends finally comes and that means i got to wait another 4 years for season 3 to comes out like i did for season 2?
soo like the ending undid all that Kyo and Kirino did during the whole series? >.< feels like that to me.. after, all the heartbreak Kyo caused he doesnt end up with kirino … actually is even worse: they date for like 2 months and then they go back to siblings? … really Kyo was 2 months worth breaking the heart of 4 girls and all for .. for? for what? i would have liked to see him atleast trying to fight Kirino on that "we got back to siblings" thing.. he just accepts it soo lamely
Mebe there is gonna be another episode?.. feels really incomplete ..meh .. already experienced the "gainax" ending (aka senseless mind#$@%) so now i got the "oreimo" ending: "all was a waste of time" for Kyo atleast… after all that i guess none of the pther girls would take him back.. not Manami for sure.. or Ayase.. Kuroneko maybe? but dont think so..
I think it would have been better if Lyo and Kirino actually ended together (of if he actually manned up and confronted their parents) .. like Yosuga no Sora (Sky of Connections IIRC) … so im still waiting for a real ending i guess .. anyone got an ETA of Episode 17?
Final Comment: the series was funny.. somewhat repetitive.. but funny. the characters were funny but the ending sucked: all the development done on Kyo and Kirino posible romantic relationship undone in the last 10 mins … all i got from it was the suffering of the other 4 girls that actually wanted to stay with Kyo … im still hoping that the autor is just trolling and we get an OVA in like 2-6 months?
PS: Anyone got an animated gift of that "Manami punches Kirino" scene? lol IMHO that catfight was sooooo overdue! (and one of the more interesting scenes … also Kirino is so so ..dont even have the words to decribe that so annoying personality lol ). I knew Manami was more than the cute osananajimi! lol she showed she has claws! (or fists)
PS2: Kuroneko breaking the dairy felt so sad
I went from hating and calling Kirino a bitch, to easing up a little towards the end, and then she goes right back to being a bitch. How is being a disgusting incest bitch something to brag about? I would have loved to see that fight happen in public or at least broadcast like Kyousuke’s confession, but of course there was going to be a cop out.
Apparently, it was the publisher’s fault for the cop outs. It’s not just the copouts, the friendships were ruined. I know Saori said that her, kyou, kirino, and kuroneko would hang out as usual, but I don’t see that happening. Kyou ruined Kuroneko for life, I’ve seen Chu2 I know this shit lol. The sad thing is that Kyousuke was Kuroneko’s Yuuta to her Rikka, but now that Yuuta doesn’t give a shit about Rikka anymore, she’s trapped and will never find that horizon. Kuro’s sisters are probably going to end up scarred too because their big sister was devastated.
No parents reaction, no Ayase reaction, the publisher’s ending has Kyousuke and Kirino punk out and break off their relationship publicly instead of sticking to their guns. I can imagine that would also be a reason for their previous friendships with the other girls being destroyed.
People calling Manami a bitch because she doesn’t like the incest loving freakazoids lmfao. Manami is a badass boss mmkay. I never expected this. My mind was blown, dat falcon punch, I replayed it multiple times just to make sure that what I watched actually happened lol. I was happy that Kirino got her ass whooped, even though it took two whole seasons and some OVAs just to do it. Those gifs better be incoming fast because I need to watch them over and over again.
The ending was trash, not because of the freakzoids, but because they punked out, no parents reaction even though their relationship was put on blast for all of japan to hear, and you can’t tell me they didn’t find out, especially the government when japan is connected communication wise in a strong way. No Ayase reaction and Kyousuke and Kirino will be forever alone because their friends, no matter how much they say their relationship is fine, they stopped being friends. No more big Otaku gatherings, just Kyou and Kirino, being stealth freakazoids, because they’re too scared to do it in public.
On the subject of the side side characters like the Game Club, Makabe getting with the Fujoshi girl? Bulllllshiiiiiit. After being the subject of her fantasies of him getting assraped and all of that crap? I just can’t see that happening. Saori making up with her sister seemed like too convenient.
The real ending of the series is Show Spoiler ▼
People actually don’t like Manami because of an event in the novel in which she took advantage of a vulnerable moment in his life. He inadvertently injured a classmate; who then transferred and because of that event, his classes school trip was cancelled and everyone was essentially bullying him because of it and then his grandmother died, which obviously made him sad, but he was mad at himself that when Kirino was crying because of it, he couldn’t comfort her. While he was depressed about this Manami told him that he isn’t the “super awesome onii-san” like Kirino thinks he is, but an ordinary boy. If he comes across a problem he can’t solve, he should just say “it can’t be helped” because if he doesn’t give up people will call him cool, but he won’t be happy. Extremely paraphrased, but that’s the gist of it.
She basically changed him to fit who she wanted him to be, even though he liked he was. As evidenced by the fact that he started reverting back to his former behavior during the course of the story. I personally despise woman who try to change men into their ideal guys instead of accepting their faults along with their strengths. It’s speculated that all this might have been also to make him normal so that girls wouldn’t go after him so that eventually she could have him to herself, hence the whole “If it wasn’t for you” thing with Kirino during the fight.
But yeah, she’s a boss all right. <—– sarcasm
I did not interpret that moment in manami n kyou’s life as her trying to take advantage of him during a vulnerable state. If u think about it…manami has loved kyousuke even though he was this cool and ambitious kid…all she was trying to do was stop him from being so damn hard on himself all the time…..he then took it a step further n decided to become the person he was throughout the series which upset kirino….I definetly don’t think there was any ulterior motive to her saying that to him
The thing is, that was really the first time he got hurt because of the way he was. I can see if he kept getting hurt over and over again, but that simply wasn’t the case. Not to mention that it wasn’t just things like his athletic ability that declined because of the change but his grades as well. He went from an honor student type to being completely average. It basically sabotaged his future. There’s absolutely no way that was what was best for him.
Dunno , judging by the 2 season and the 4 novels i read.. Manami seemed the most centered of the bunch.. TBH i think she is wasted on Kyo.
Also: “to make him normal so other girls wouldnt go for him” ? really? or your trolling? i think that is more like: “to help him balance his life to normal standards so he doent suffer” we all saw in the ending how Kyo’s obsession with his sister ended in the last episode: he got no one and his sister would only play lovers for a couple months.. worth it? IMHO not worth it. (unless we get 1 more episode)
PS: havent read the last volume.. is this the same ending as the novels? (if it is then someone tell me so i dont waste my time reading the ligth novels.
I would understand if manami got all manipulative when any girl came around but that wasnt the case. I understand that these characters are all human beings, and yea people dont always have entirely pure motives; but for people to think that manami only told kyousuke to live a normal life for her own purposes? i just cant see that being possible. I can see that being part of the reason why she “conditioned” kyousuke, but i genuinely think she wanted him to stop being so hard on himself. It was kyousuke who took it that step further because he was traumatized about what he did. One could argue that had he not been told that from manami, he might have actually gotten worse. In my opinion, manami’s only problem with Kirino is the fact that she has romantic feelings for kyousuke despite him being her brother; manami thinks that’s wrong. Manami is well aware of the other females that want kyousuke, and even when he started dating kuroneko, she was supportive of him despite her own feelings. Even though she cant stand the idea of kirino and Kyousuke being together, for his sake, she decided not to reveal their relationship; that is not the signs of a purely manipulative person. Either way, this is oreimo we are talking about: the writing, plot progression, and characters werent on point to begin; but to think it would fall this hard…mmm mmm…didnt see that coming.
I imagine that if Ayase found out that Kyousuke dumped her for Kirino, she’d go full-on yandere and probably team up with Manami and Yamineko to murder the siblings. Even though all ships got sunk, let’s not forget that some had life boats on them that can turn into nice boats… I think that would be a more acceptable ending.
Oh yeah, so in the end, who was that photographer in ep12 15:15, who was
stalkingtaking photos of Ayase leaving Kyousuke’s love nestexternal study room.
Why did Kuroneko want to vross the road!
So that she can get rejected on the other side! XD
Why did Manami cross the road?
Show Spoiler ▼
The second season was awful. Just awful. Not just for the noncommittal ending and the fabricated drama, but for all the pitfalls and failures the show stubbornly refused to avoid through every single one of its 16 episodes.
I want to unsee the second season so badly. But I can’t.
At least Saori got to be a real character and not just a convenient accessory for the drama between Kyousuke, Kirino, and Ruri. That’s the only thing I am grateful for. But then again, the writers even lumped HER along with EVERYONE ELSE and forced everyone to fall in love with Kyousuke, so they managed to ruin that, too.
It’s like they wanted to crush every single molecule of individuality out of each and every girl in the show and reduce them all to the singular purpose of being in love with the protagonist. Most shows, including harems, still have the dignity to portray their characters as individuals and not carbon copies of one another. Oreimo decided that its characters didn’t even need dignity anymore. That’s just shameful.
So much hate. I understand that it’s a shame and simply unacceptable that the publishers forced a cop-out on the true ending that was envisioned; but with what the author had to work with I was content. The overall series was quite the ride and was overall very fun. The second season doesn’t have anything over the first, but it wasn’t abysmal. The 2 first specials wrapped things up nicely with the other feMCs and the infamous finale had literally 2-3 minutes of shittiness; that’s no reason to completely trash the anime. BTW wincest and Kirino 4tw!!!!!!!
I gotta say, this was a pretty great finale for a pretty bizarre premise. That fistfight was pure gold :3
Now I see what all the rage was about on Skype =P Glad I didn’t watch it, but kind of sad that I missed out on the bandwagon lol
You should have joined the skype and listened, Cherrie.
You should soooo watch it, it’s worth it despite how it all ended. I highly recommend it 😉
You should still watch it Cherrie regardless of all the flak its received, overall it was a fun series throughout. 🙂
*stress exhales* Well…not having known jack about the novels or manga, after thinking about the big picture as revealed by the anime, Manami had put a scare into Kirino about being abandoned by her aniki. So really the only way to quelch her fears was to show her mind ultimate safety by putting her first in every category. Since the anime never implies that Kyosuke REALLY wants to make a wife of his sister, they leave room for doubt, that maybe he’s just running with the flow. So having the marriage and such being symbolic and then acknowledged as such in the end did make sense. So i’m sort of satisfied with that. Is anyone besides me hoping for Saori’s turn in an OVA lol
This was a classic example of HOW NOT TO WRITE A PLOT.
They spent the last 3 episodes creating something to look forward and, at the end, they destroy all expectations doing the exact opposite it.
One of worst ending I’ve ever seen.
The last 3 episodes released on the same exact time + an entire 2 weeks of busy chores, work, and summer trips = an angry starss
I wanted Kirino pregnant at the end!!!
That’s too much incest: we are trying to deal with pure love here.
Ayase actually grew to love Kyousuke over interactions with him, as did Kuroneko. Kirino didn’t really change at all throughout the two seasons and OVAs. An Ayase or Kuroneko ending would be a better love story to me, but we knew from the start it was supposed to be a Kirino ending. Zannen da
Did you miss how Kirino slowly opened to Kyousuke bit by bit? She’s not even that much of a tsundere. If she was still the girl in Volume 1 or 2 she wouldn’t have agreed to go out with Kyousuke that Christmas.
Kyousuke changed as well, something Manami wasn’t able to accept.
have we been watching the same anime? cus the way Kirino reacts is pretty much unchanged since the first episode: 50% tsun, 20% bitchy, 15% violence on Kyo, 5% dere.
thts supposed to be 15% dere xD
The question inanis is: have you been paying attention to details.
Do you think Kirino would have ever talked to Kyousuke after all that shouting “I AM A SISCON” if she was the same girl back in Season 1 episode 1? No.
Do you think she’d date Kyousuke if she was the same girl back then? That she’d admit she’d be jelly if Kyou was dating another girl? No.
Paying attention is what everyone lacked here. They’re all mesmerized by moe(Ruri) that many seemed to forgot to think. If Ruri was a mermaid and were all in the Argo you’d all be fish food by now.
Need a Spin-off for every girl out there…
. . . Wow. Just. WOW. I’ve seen some ill-advised moves in my time, but I haven’t had one that evoked this much rage in quite a while (Here’s looking at what you did with Itsu-Ten, ZEXCS). I mean, WTF?
I’ll be honest, I was ’bout ready to pack it up and call it quits when Kyousuke dumped Kuroneko and made her CRY. Seriously, an adorable gothic lolita who loves you, would do anything for you and you say NO!? You make her cry!? Oh, Holy RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.
But, you know what? I press on. Kyousuke x Kirino has been a work in the making since the start, so if that’s the route we’re going down at the very end – much as I despise it for obvious reason – I’ll accept it.
. . . But then comes along the most infuriating move this series could possibly have made, and right at the very end when nothing else could’ve been done about it. It’s almost as if they were intentionally trying to piss people off; and if that was their intention, then allow me to extend my most heartfelt congratulations. You guys succeeded.
Truly and honestly, when Kirino said “Let’s go back to being normal siblings,” I was speechless. I felt betrayed, as if the entire purpose to which this series had devoted itself to was being trampled over; and you know what? It was. That decision made an absolute mockery of every other girl who had feelings for Kyousuke, as if all of their hard work and feelings were for nothing.
To whoever ultimately was involved in making that decision, I say only this. You obviously have no respect for the art of storytelling and you have no business in handling a story ever again, period.
Don’t be so sad, it’s implied that ruri and ayase will start a lesbian relationship in vols 11 and 12
it’s mre S/M than yuri flavored, though…
You mean volume 13. These episodes ARE volume 12.
Yeah, it’s a pretty bad ending (even though we all knew it was coming) but it’s far from the worst I have ever seen. That “honour” belongs to pretty much anything written by Kawashita Mizuki. All of her mangas have godawful endings. Hatsukoi Limited, Ichigo 100%…
This (while bad) isn’t even in the same ballpark!
I was really disappointed with this route. But 2 points that liked:
– Fight between Kirino and Manami, the final reckoning.
– And the scene more striking: Kuroneko in episode 14, the scene was fantastic! The scream of pain and his voice as he ripped the notebook was the perfect synchronicity of sound and image, congratulations to Seiyū!
Kyousuke’s a dumbass! Why? I understand that he was able to reject Ayase since they dont really know each other that much and Ayase has been physically abusing him, plus the Yandere tendencies which scares the crap out of him.
But seriously, rejecting Kuroneko? What a stupid idiotic move, as Kuroneko even said it herself that she is fine sharing him with Kirino and since she is her bestfriend would even let her be number one in their relationship if Kirino really wanted it.
So you see, the dumbass could have had a threesome ending where he officially goes out and marries Kuroneko but still in an unofficial relationship with his sister since he really wants to screw her after all. This way both fanbase are satisfied, since IMO I think these two characters have the largest fanbase. But no, he ruins such a perfect setup and such a perfect girl who will even love him even if he lusts after his sister. What a waste.
Wow! There’s more of this? I thought Oreimo only has 1 season with 15 episodes and ended with a 2 OVAs.
I’m confused… how isn’t this the perfect ending? Kyousuke and Kirino are both annoying, contemptible people. They deserve to be alienated from balanced human beings and they deserve to live the rest of their lives in bizarre, isolated pseudo-happiness. Kyousuke is an incompetent oaf, of course he wouldn’t make the rational decision any sane human being would.
Just got through watching the last episodes of this anime and I don’t think an anime has ever made me this mad. I don’t mind the incest and even though it broke my heart (Big Ruri fan!)I don’t hate that part either, because it had to be done for them to move on. BUT! I’m not shur I can forgive the ending. There are two possible endings for me. 1. Yes they make that promise and stop acting like they are together, but they still secretly are and one day will have that happy ending I was looking forward to. 2. They legitimately go back to being normal siblings.
For the sake of loving the anime I’m going to go with number one, and use the final “life advise” and kiss on the cheek as evidence. However, if I were forced to go with number two then the ending out of context would be a complete cop-out and was just to save face and tell people they are not supporting incest. If you take it in context then you’ll see that all this does is not only hide their real feelings, but make everything that has happened completely pointless. Including breaking the hearts of the wonderful girls that did nothing wrong, but love him. Also that does not take into account that in reality there is no possible way they could ever become normal siblings again in the first place, they have done way to much and have to strong of feelings for each other for that ever to happen.
So all in all its an anime and that’s the way it ended. For me I like happy endings and I will continue to like this anime and to think that Ruri goes on to find a much better man that will always be there for her( and which ever persona she may be acting out at the time), and that someday Kirino and Kyōsuke will be together like they should be. I would always prefer for that to have be much plainer in the actual anime, but what can you do. Thanks for hearing me out and I look forward to the next big anime to bring out such strong feelings in me, I guess this is why we all love anime in the first place right.
Here’s hoping for some alternative ending OVA(s) like they did at the end of S1
Wasn’t there this 10 year timeskip in some extra novel published with the first BD/DVD volume?
Yup, there is. I’m trying to find translations for it right now, but can’t seem to find anything. Hopefully it’ll answer some of our questions or give us more closure.
Show Spoiler ▼
Disappointed. Worst ending ever. I can only call it a horrible ORIGINAL ending. It is not a bad ending like the many in the school days game. It is not a good ending either like in the oreimo game. They could have done it like in “marmalade boy” where “they” get married and live happily ever after. “They” were going to marry and live together even if “they” were blood related. But here what happens is like a guy going through many trials to get and marry the girl he loves and then in the honeymoon when they are about to sleep together he realizes that he is g_a_y and says sorry woman, we are getting divorced right now.
They could have done a kuroneko happy ending instead. OR an Ayase happy ending instead. OR any other girl happy ending isntead. Even a harem ending. I think Ayase was the best girl mainly because Kyousuke should fall in love with a girl that looks like Kirino (since he is crazy about kirino) and Ayase physically looks a lot like kirino, plus they are both models and have the same fashion tastes. they are both noisy and problematic. It would be like he is marrying kirino. And I wanted to see the scene from the game where we see kirino, kyousuke and pregnant Ayase together (ayase happy ending).
It’s really stupid. He makes a promise to Kuroneko to be with her, spends a [strong]month[/strong] with Ayase-tan taking care of him, and rejects her apparently because he suddenly wants to marry his sister. WTF? As the first episode unfolded, it was just a constant, what the hell? Why is this happening? I accepted the series as him building a bond with his horrible sister and being brought into a much more interesting world, but he wants to marry her now??
Man, I’m a little disappointed that the show went for the sibling romance ending instead of one that focused on a realistic brother-sister relationship. I mean, we get tons of anime where a brother and sister are in love and all that, but almost none that show a true sibling relationship. This could have ended so much better, but it chose an ending that did nothing to distinguish itself from the rest of those insect anime. still enjoyable though.
This. Oh so this. I don’t mind the incest really (I’m jaded, I know), but the majority of their feelings needed to come from honest brother-sister interactions that are unique to that bond. It just turned into well…rom com with a dash of eroge influence, that TRIED to tie in all the siblingship at the end but failed the emphasis.
I understand this is a Ore Imo thread so people who come here are fans of the series, so may think Kyousuke dating Kirono is ok but I’m just in disbelief the amount of dislikes to comment saying brother-sister relationship is wrong. I mean it IS wrong and no amount of dislike would make it look as though Kyousuke and Kirino’s relationship is okay. No, it’s not normal for a sister and brother to wed and kiss like that. I just dislike how this series made it look like a tender moment we are supposed to awe to when I bet for most people they were in disbelief.
This is a work of fiction and should not be mixed with reality.
Please leave all reality based themes/morals/laws/etc at the front door.
Enjoy the show.
Just frustrating all around. I literally called it the moment I read it but that was publisher handing down the mandate from above. I understand that incest is illegal and I wouldn’t support it myself, but you can’t let the author be allowed to write what he has and then pull the rug from underneath him. You either let him do his story or do not do it at all.
This is the major reason why people are getting more and more upset with publishers of entertainment. They are laying down mandates only when they want and not right at the beginning. If they had told him that “no, you can’t”, we probably would’ve had a story that ends with Ruri winning and Kirino entering a somewhat normal relationship with her brother.
As far as the anime? I would say them trying to cram everything into these final 3 episodes was even worse. The only good thing out of all of this was the VA’s performance for Ruri. Then again, I’d say the entire second season wasn’t that great either in terms of execution.
Also, morally correct Minami may be, but all for the wrong reasons. She still wanted to have Kyousuke to herself and Kyousuke be exactly how she wanted him to be like at the beginning. She can say she’s doing it as it is the right thing to do, but she is doing it for her own pure selfishness. She also intentionally caused Kirino and Kyousuke to suffer to accomplish this. Her comeuppance was nicely self deserved. I should add I may be speaking more from a novel stand point on that, but it still needs to be said.
Incest is a bit more open in Japan.
It is not, in the United States.
These episodes would never have fared well here to begin with.
You actually have 3 states that had incest legal, though. Rhode Island, New Jersey and Ohio.
best parts of the last 3 episodes for me:
-Manami Punch! (and her Declarations.. imho the only character with a clear head… sadly she fell for the wrong guy >..<
PS2: lol so many people defending incest… Kyo and kirino had only 1 option if both loved each other enough to stay together: make their family and several others suffer and run away, ignore morality and society and just leave. nothing more… Manami knew this, even Kyo knew this and Kirino knew this. Thats why Manami ask Kyo to reject that "love" and go with her. This is why Kirino called it off and they "went back" to siblings after a while. This is why Kyo acepted it to be over after a while: they were just not strong enougth.
I mean their love was not strong enough to go against their family, peers and society rules … this is what pisses me off the most: all we get at the end is just 4 girls crying her hearts out because of 1 lame guy who doesnt even ends up with the girl he wanted.
Havent seen such a bad and depressive ending since evangelion (old) movies… but then again i dont watch much anime (compared to others)
ah forgot to add:
– the new endings, specially “The Last Ceremony” … and the one of ep15 (yandere Ayase looks so funny)
I was fine with the Kirino ending, but certainly not like this…
Well, they should just make anime episodes in a bus format (like Amagami SS) to show the happy endings for all the girls (they could use the PSP games material)
Yep just what I was thinking too. They did that somewhat with Da Capo II when they made it Kotori in the end instead of Nemu. I don’t even think that’ll never happen sadly.
Correction DCSS xD
In the words of China, IL:
“Son, I know the inertia of star-crossed love…but fucking your sister’s just gross.”
Even as the bureaucrat of the Oreimo Wiki, I can still find myself cringing at the events that unfolded during these three episodes — and I haven’t even watched everything! Spare me from the “It’s just an anime” bullshit. Oreimo ended in the worst way possible.
I agree with the thumbnail picture for this post, though I’m not as unhappy as you. Kirino was always my favorite character in this series, even though many think she’s some bratty bitch.
Let’s not have a false assumption here The series would have ended up as shitty anyway even if the editorial of the L/N’s publish company hadn’t jumped up the author’s ass.
You people are becoming the author’s beck and call for nothing
I was shitfest.
Only entertaining parts was catfight.
I actually thought Manamin’s a total ol’-goody-two-shoes too-normal-girl-with-glasses… But, sheesh, that first blow-on-the-stomach caught me totally off guard. *Pfugh!*
I knew it was bound too happen but Kuroneko getting rejected like that was just painful to watch, even more so the moment she started screaming. Kuroneko didn’t deserve any of that seriously. I’m just glad this shit is finally over, it was one hell of a ride though looking back I think the show kept me entertained more often than not. Thanks Zanibas for the awesome coverage in filmstrip format, hope this show is not the last we’ll see of this format.
Also to all the Kuroneko fans out there, dont be sad guys you know she won..Show Spoiler ▼
Thanks Zanibas for the inspiring message and for blogging the series. Your words have inspired me to move on. I will forget, or actually soft overwrite this ending with the ending I need from the game.
You people are all delusional weird f**ks. Since when has incest ever been tolerable, bet none of you have any younger sisters do you. Honest to god, a brother would never romantically love his sister uneless fucked up in the head.
This is just the world we live in today, people looking to push the boundaries of tolerance and see how far they can go. This is a bridge too far. What’s next? A show about falling in love with your own mum?
Seeing how this thread is so popular, and so many in defense if kirino and kyousuke’s relationship, I really do come to the conclusion that the majority of anime fans are social rejects. CAMP NOCEST will not stand for this shit. Japan,sometimes I love you, and sometimes I feel like losing your old identity as a warrior feudal society made you batshit insane.
»putting fiction over reality.
if you actually read, people are againts it lol
though you voiced out your opinion, i dont hate you at all. 🙂
Incest had been tolerable since the start of time. History has many examples, many countries today tolerate it either fully or with a certain condition.
I suggest you research first before you type. You look like a moron who lived in a bubble or basement all your life with no knowledge of how the world works.
there seems to be a lot of confusion… thus:
Incest ..and its punishments in different places:
-Unites States.. depends of the state:
-5 years imprisonment in Hawaii
-10 years imprisonment in North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota
-14 years imprisonment in California, Oregon, Washington, Alaska and Idaho
-15 years imprisonment in Connecticut, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia and West Virginia
-20 years imprisonment in Massachusetts, New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania, and Vermont
-25 years imprisonment in Kansas, Nebraska, Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, Wyoming, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky
Life imprisonment in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee.
-NO incarceration in Canada .. but you are registered as sexual offender.. for life.
-NO penalty in Rhode Island.
-3 years in Germany
-LEGAL in Spain
-NO penalty in Russia.. but they are forbidden to marry
-3 years in Switzerland
-7 years for females and FOR LIFE for males, in Republic of Ireland.
-LEGAL in Argentina .. but forbidden to marry (unless they are 3rd degree relatives or more)
-NO criminal Punishment on Brazil.
-8 to 20 years in Australia
-6 years in Denmark
-10 to 25 years in Italy
-3 months to 5 years in Poland
-2 years in United Kingdom
-Legal on China
-WHIPPING and from 6 to 20 years in Malaysia
-NOT forbidden in JAPAN .. thou they CANT get married and any of such marriages is not recognized (even if they are not blood related… relationship between adopted members of a family count as incest).
PS: full list on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest
PS2: so i dunno where people is getting the idea that it is tolerated everywhere .. the truth is that there are really few countries that DONT jail you for incest… and even less that let you actually marry a relative.. actually if Kyo and Kirino wanted to stay together and marry legally they would have to leave Japan and go to Belgium, France, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, some parts of India, Brazil or Israel. .. or Rhode Island.
That number still counts as “many” inanis. I was referring to that.
For the US, you forgot New Jersey and Ohio. They tolerate incest. As they say in New Jersey:
“Incest is the best, put your sister to the test.”
almost 200 countries in the world.. about 10 allow Incest less than that allow marriage
but sorry , when you said “many” i was thinking on “many out of 200” so i thought “about 50?” and it sounded odd to me.. so i looked it up.
and yeah about New Jersey …they wont do anything if both parties are 18+ …Ohio.. only punishes the parents meaning that if it is between siblings then there is no punishment
PS: lol they say that in New Jersey? lawl
Fans where actually tolerant in watch to the end cause they were hoping for Kuroneko to winand make Kirino say gyaffun(I lose) becUse of her bitchy attitude.
Me and TheMoondoggie were just trolling around that we support Kirino. XD
False Croos: I have been a tsundere fan all my life since Love Hina. Kirino FTW!
Camp READ-THE-THREAD suggests you actually take the time to look at the comments instead of tl;dr’ing and spewing out gut-reaction generalizations.
…and this is where the Kuroneko doujinshi starts to give her a happy end. (Currently still on page four, still drawing…)
Wow, you do doujins? Cool!
I just love this post. So many love… so many hate. I just can’t get enough of it!
Couldn’t agree with you more…XP
It’s not even that messed up: It’s just mostly Kuroneko fans circlejerking and wishing for abominable things like “non-blood related” incest and omnibus non-canon ends. :/
Kanako: Kyousuke! I love you!
What’s stopping them from doing it again in the future? The promise was for going back to being normal siblings after graduation, but not forever.
Every weekend i used to visit this website, for the reason that i wish
for enjoyment, for the reason that this this web page conations really nice funny stuff too.
This has been one of my favourite series of all time. For some reason, I really managed to “connect” with the characters. Even with Kirino, even from the start 🙂 The exception being probably Manami which I never liked very much.
I expected the ending to be something along the lines of:
– Kyosuke decides to not go out with anyone for the time being, in order to keep his brother-sister relationship going well, and life goes on.
– Kyosuke goes out with Ruri (or even Ayase) and Kirino accepts it.
In any case I wanted a happy ending for all the characters… that is why this ending was kind of a shock. I don’t mind an incest ending at all (I personally know a couple which are also cousins which is also frowned upon in many places, including their family). But it was sad the way that the relationship with Ruri is broken, and even if I don’t like Manami, her breakup was very violent too. Let’s remember that this show was also about a group of friends which always supported each other, and that included relationships between the girls too. And suddenly all that comes to an end.
But well, in the end it was going to be a happy ending, with kiss and all… until the last 5 minutes, when we discover it was only for four months. Another shock 🙁
After reading the author interviews and many comments here, in myanimelist, animesuki, and even the last chapter of the Light Novel in bakatsuki, I choose the interpretation where they are still in love even after they are no longer “lovers” officially, and that their love relationship will go on in secret… after all, what is more beautiful (and tragic) than a love against all conventions and hardships?
I wonder what is the reaction right now in Japan…
In any case, for me it was a great series. Watching it and reading about it was always fun and exceiting. If anything, the ending that the author chose will make the series be remembered in the future. I for one will never be able to listen to the OP/ED songs as I sometimes do with the same feelings.
Thanks to all the RandomC staff who covered this so well. Hope to see the filmstrip format used again in the future 🙂
What a ride, but now I have a headache. Worry not Kuroneko, you will be loved and immortalized because of this… still it sucked.
I have read the vast majority of the posts (I’ll read the rest later) and while I don’t generally comment on anyone’s posts, but I have to hand it to Croos, Moondoggie and Zen for extending this thread by at least 50%. HAHA! You guys are cray cray!!! Love it.
Hmm I shall end with my favorite scene… Minamiiiii PUNCH!!!!! (they should have made the ground cave in where they stood and the trees behind Kirino explode with a shock wave)
ugg.. need some Tylenol.
I’m not trolling like Croos though: I really hate Manami and like Kirino. I don’t hate Kuroneko because we’re on the same boat and I know she’s at peace knowing Kirino won.
If I were trolling though, I would have blurted out things only true fans know and get every Ruri fan here so angry, all my post will be hidden.
But I won’t do it, only because this is the first LN I had finished. It felt good.
made me so curious. soooo curious.
I will miss this anime
He rejected all those girls just to be with his sister Kirino, and while it creept me out I still felt respect for the guy for committing to his decision. That was until they broke it off till in the end! MY HEAD HURTS!
after reading all of the comments regarding Oreimo true end.
There is only 1 thing left for me to say: (video link included)
ON YOUR MARK, GET SET, WE’RE RIDING ON THE INTERNET…..
Oh god, this is such a trainwreck. Feels like Kyosuke is on hardcore drugs, shouting all the time while arching back.
DON’T FORGET THERE IS ALSO THE OREIMO LIVE ACTION SERIES
Best scene in the series:
The catfight between Manami & Kirino
i would say it is the best of all the series.. but for me the best out the last 3 episodes
that cat fight was delayed 2 seasons!
“But alas, most of the good things I named above seemed to crumble completely with the end. Any sort of character development went straight out the window as the characters all did seemingly contradictory or unjustifiably unexpected actions that only served to muddle the plot. At the end, you wonder (in a bad way from confusion) just how the characters feel about each other in the end, or even what the status is on some characters”
Totally agree with you on that.. that lack of closure is the one that really gets me mad >.<
I guess hoping for other episode is pointless? does the novel also ends this way?
meh … instead of just going to the games ill just give up on this franchise.
I wish he could end up with Ruri, but since he choose Kirino I expect him to go all out of the way and see it through till the end. But then they broke up…WTF I’m super dissapointed. But after Kyou kiss Kirino’s cheek at the end, and Kirino said they will have a “talk” after they get home… I think we can expect that they might continue their lover playing in one way or another.
I agree with most of the things you said. Ultimately, it was a disappointing end.
My favourite part from these 3 eps was probably the end of Episode 14 with Kirino’s teary-eyed “hai”. That moment was beautiful.
the thing i didn’t get it is why he dumped kuroneko ? cause when she dumped him he cried and said i love her, even now and after that he broke up with her ,that’s non sense.. and whith ayase who was the guy who was taking pictures ? and if he doesn’t like her, why was he looking for pictures and websites about her? what’s the point about bookmarked stuff about her .. kyousuke’s retarded and seriously all this for nothing
‘the thing i didn’t get it is why he dumped kuroneko ?’
Because at this point the show lost all credibility as a ‘story’ and became a ‘dating-game’. The story was no longer moved by protagonists’ feelings but by calculating authors -_- This show and franchise ended for me after Kuroneko’s insensitive and cruel rejection (On Christmass eve, for f..k’s sake – who would do such a thing?! )
Poor, poor Manami.
I felt the specials were horrendous and the producers should have done better because Oreimo was one of my favourite anime but I just couldn’t believe how this turned out. I really want a re-make of the last series as it is still in my mind
The ending was massively disappointing.
There were some incest story that was good, but I felt that this is too forced…
Just because of eroge influence ? Oh come on.
This was just wrong…and on so many levels at that. Way to ruin a good series:/
M-M-Manami???!!!W-what’s happening here?!is it the “Oreimo” in another world’s dimension?!She turned into…into…(can’t say it,too hard for me T.T)
Good to know that Kyousuke x Kirino actually happened,but that ending was TOO WEAK,TOO WEAK!
It feels like things was rushed somehow…
Just finished watching it and went straight looking for other people’s reaction, I thought i’d feel better somehow …
Boy was I wrong, none the less i commend the writters for not cohering to the “Youre not blood related” cliche, …
Suddenly it feels like multiple route endings feel oh so right ahahaha….
I agree with kiri komori. I was also hoping for the ‘You’re not blood related’ twist. In any case, I’ll accept this ending with all my heart 🙁 though I’m sad it didn’t turn out to the ending I wanted.
The entirety of the last episodes had me digging out all the bills in my wallet so that I could place a bet on the fact the whole 3 ending episodes were nothing more than a Siscon ending that Kirino made for a game she was making since season 1.
I won’t say I agree with this in its entirety, but this review is both the most comprehensive and thought provoking I’ve seen. I strongly agree with your final impressions that the second season overall was missing much of the “self-referential and cultural jokes” that made the first season so engaging.
Show Spoiler ▼
A Crunchyroll member going by Quarlo posted “Hell, Kuroneko deserves her own series, she’s that good a character.” I think many of us would be fans of such a series.
Then what happened? I know it’s been hashed out to death already, but man I can’t believe they left it like that. Well anime isn’t usually known for its good endings…
End it at the damn wedding scene, let every girl Kyousuke dumped and gave up (I was an Ayase fanboy the entire series, sucker for that yandere) be worth something, if your’e going to go incest go all the way damn it, dont co-op. (no blood related thing would have pissed me off more thouhg)
That being said the second season did divert from the 1st with all the otaku culture, but they would have had to end the series on some note, the otaku culture wasnt the main point on the show no matter how enjoyable it was.
I feel so bad for kuroneko, manami took too long, didnt convey her feelings much the entire time, and im sorry shes just to plain looking lol. Kuroneko was awesome, she deserved better
I spoiled myself with the VN sometime after ep 13 so i saw this coming, they did leave some hope that they would get back together but a more definitive end, no matter how controversial would have left a better taste for all of us im sure. I might go get the psp game now myself.
So in short, good series, great potential for character growth, they messed up the 2nd season, and left us with a unfulfulling ending. But all things must come to an end.
(._.”) Bye Bye Oreimo
I really feel that the ending was a real cliffhanger and I’ve read the LN and the ending is the exact same. Godamnit. I seriously feel like that was a terrible cliffhanger. I still haven’t got that series off my mind because the way it ended was way too unsatisfying.
Uwah. Surprised. What the hell? I was even starting to root for the KyoxKirino ship after Kirino finally got honest. And just after coming out of it I have to say, damn.
Personally, I think it’s quite easy for people who’ve never been in that situation to simply dismiss sibling love as an abomination or as something that can’t be done. I’ve never been in that situation myself either, but I won’t shoot it down as invalid straight away, because love is love, regardless of who it is. I’m of the opinion that people fall in love with people, without boundaries–no sisters or brothers or anything.
But the ending didn’t bother to go further than that. It’s surprising how Kirino and Kyousuke they caved to “common sense” when their actions were anything but common-sensical, because love makes you do things like that.
I wanted them to end up together, plain and simple. Of course, there’s a million objective reasons that incest is bad (genetic diversity and heightened risk of disease for offspring), but love is love, dammit!
Been aware of OreImo’s popularity, and read up on it here and there, and watched some if not all of the first episode. Got in a bit on the hubbub of the final episode, and the main reaction I read had an interesting point of all progress in the Kousaka siblings branching out and forming many relationships is completely undermined by so spectacularly breaking off all previous relationships for the sake of a highly inclusive one (as brother and sister, they’re pretty much bound to each other regardless), as well as touching on failed instances of real-world incest.
On that last note, wow, Zen blew that mini-thread up. If nothing else, I’ll carry a new view, at least for now, of the objectives of SCIENCE!
As for this show, or even this franchise, though? I’m torn on whether to get rightly involved. Visuals are nice, but I’d either have to compromise for cutting off after the first season or for going through the whole shebang (“what is known can then not be unknown,” yeah?).
But at least we get that beat-down, no matter who’s deserving of ire or condolences. Definitely need some GIFs of that whammy.
‘ve got so many other, deserving IPs to get to, though, this can prolly safely (“safely”?) stay a curiosity. Trivia Time: Turns out I live in one of those “life imprisonment” places for what these two leads pulled. Definitely would’ve added weight to Manami’s threat.
kyousuke was so dragging the show into gurren laganns special variety of “FUCK LOGIC, LOL” with that loud mouth, his self-depreciating style of solving problems, and that interesting backwards pose usually reserved for the insane badguy – shame the ending didnt follow up.
whatever… this was still the funniest anime ive ever watched, and it gets even better knowing ill be able to inflict this joke ending on others in the future.
Okay well this didn’t turn out how I liked it to be either. Personally I don’t like the thought of Kirino and Kyousuke together it just doesn’t seem right . . . It made me so sad that Kuruneko didn’t get to be with Kyousuke I thought they made great couple but i guess things just don’t turn out the way I wan’t now I have to find an anime that’s as good or better then this. I think I’m going to be up for a while.
hahahaha if this is the worst ending to an anime he’s seen, he should watch school days… 🙂
Ok, so there weren’t any follow up episodes to try “clean up the mess” from the last episodes.
I’ve seen all sorts of endings by now, good to bad, partial cliffhanger to full ones, but I’ve never seen an ending that has messed up all characters involved.
In the end we can say Kyousuke rejected all those girls and their love for a forbidden affair with his sister Kirino for a few years.
I’m not gonna say much about the rejections, the Ruri (Kuroneko) one was specially distasteful a bit before Christmas. The important is, regardless of the couple each fan was rooting for, anyone could accept a different girl, given common ground. Instead the author wanted a different ending and made Kyousuke choose “my ADN is too good to date you, I’ll have fun with my sister for a while with a no strings attached relationship”.
Many girls are behind of the point of no return, I don’t even understand how can Kuroneko be on the car on Christmas Eve, after being rejected like that. At this time I notice all characters lost their backbone and all is gone with the wind.
The Manami fight scene on last episode was a fresh breeze, a burst from her character that was expected for ages, that give so hope with some character development. But after all Kyousuke’s defiance of “true love wins”, we are presented with the agreement “Until we graduate we’ll be lovers and enjoy to the fullest. Then once we graduate we go back to normal siblings”… Game Over (Ending 0 “Waste of time”).
Point of situation, Kyousuke can go with Saori still… *sigh*
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I REALLY THINK THIS TRAUMA WILL HAVE A REMAKE.
STILL TRAUMATIZING AFTER 10 YEARS.