Bleach – 124
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Summary:
Since Ichigo is surprised that his Hollow self can also initiate ban kai, Hollow Ichigo explains that he could do it when Ichigo could. The two then envelope each other in energy blasts, but when Ichigo opens his eyes again, he finds himself in Soul Society fighting against Byakuya. Ichigo doesn’t know what’s going on, but he has no choice except to defend himself against Byakuya’s ban kai. Byakuya comments on how Ichigo doesn’t notice the unrest in his own heart and then continues the petal onslaught. Having gotten knocked down, Ichigo tries to climb back up onto a ledge, but Byakuya appears above him and talks about Ichigo not attaining true ban kai. After letting go of the ledge because of Byakuya’s swords, Ichigo finds himself falling downward. Byakuya reaches the ground before him and says that a person who doesn’t have the will to fight can’t defend against his sword. The captain then prepares to finish Ichigo off, but Ichigo suddenly finds himself back in the sideways world fighting against his Hollow side. Although he’s still confused about what just happened, Ichigo fires off a Getsuga Tenshou. Hollow Ichigo easily deflects this attack and responds with one of his own at point blank range.
Meanwhile, in the real world, Lisa has her hands full fighting the Ichigo that is gradually turning more and more Hollow. Once 10 minutes have passed, the Vizard named Muguruma Kensei takes her place and continues the battle. Shinji and the Vizards are using a 7-man rotation of 10 minutes each, so each person can rest for 70 minutes between fights with Ichigo. During his turn, Kensei cuts Ichigo’s arm, but he soon realizes that Ichigo has hyper-speed regeneration. In response, he fires a huge energy blast, however it still doesn’t manage to do any significant damage to the regenerating Hollow Ichigo. As she watches the fight, Lisa thinks about how the struggle for Hollow control takes about an hour. Thus, it should be over by the time her turn comes again. Back inside the sideways world, Hollow Ichigo reminds Ichigo that it was his Hollow side that first used the Getsuga Tenshou in ban kai form – Ichigo is only imitating it and not doing a good job at that. Hollow Ichigo then grabs Ichigo’s sword, turns it white, and makes it disappear. Before Ichigo has a chance to fully take in what’s going on, he hears Kariya saying that he’s the worst.
Ichigo tries to tell himself that Kariya is an illusion, and although Kariya doesn’t deny it, he does say that illusions are something that the mind sees. He explains that this was all created from Ichigo’s mind, and so his existence signifies Ichigo’s worries of having defeated him. After the end of a fight, Ichigo always looks back at the enemies he defeated and the comrades he couldn’t protect. Kariya wonders if Ichigo is afraid of walking forward along the same path as him, but Ichigo denies it. The Bount then notices that Ichigo doesn’t have Zangetsu and asks if Ichigo thinks it’s possible to defeat him bare-handed. He throws Ichigo into the ground and questions if Ichigo understands the powerless feeling of losing Zangetsu. Thinking that Ichigo wants a weapon, Kariya attacks him with his wind power, and when Ichigo opens his eyes once again, he sees that he’s now in the multiple-sword world where he trained with Zangetsu. Unfortunately, the old man who represents Zangetsu isn’t around – only Kariya is. He urges Ichigo to choose a weapon, but Ichigo knows that Zangetsu isn’t around here. Instead, he remembers that Zangetsu is inside of himself, and that allows him to call forth the true blade. Ichigo, however, is still unable to hurt Kariya.
Explaining that fighting is something that goes on forever, Kariya says that strong people will continue to appear, and so if a person doesn’t have the resolve for an eternal battle, he or she will eventually be defeated. However, even that isn’t the end because the fighting would just be repeated by someone else. This is the endless cycle of rebirth: not just life and death, but the endless cycle of fighting. Kariya goes on to say that a person who possesses power will eventually be dragged into a fight – that’s how it was for the Bount. He then starts beating up Ichigo, and when Ichigo tries to strike back, Kariya catches the Zangetsu with his hand. The Bount leader, however, soon disappears and Ichigo finds himself once again back in the sideways world with the now-white Zangetsu disappearing from his hand. Because Ichigo calls it Zangetsu, his Hollow side asserts again that he’s Zangetsu before throwing Ichigo into a building.
Hollow Ichigo then asks if Ichigo knows the difference between a king and his horse. If there are two beings with the same appearance, ability, and power, one becomes the king and the other becomes the horse. The reason for this is simply instinct. The person who becomes king needs to want to fight, to want power, and to mercilessly crush his enemies. Ichigo’s Hollow side accuses him of using reason to fight and feels that Ichigo can’t hurt anyone if his sword is still in its sheath. Claiming that this is why Ichigo is weaker, the Hollow Ichigo throws his Zangetsu right into Ichigo’s abdomen. Hollow Ichigo follows this up by saying that he won’t let a king weaker than him ride on top of him, and since Ichigo is weaker, the Hollow is going to destroy him to become the king. As he seems to lose strength, Ichigo thinks about instinct, the desire for battle, and not handing over his sword. With this, he suddenly grabs the white Zangetsu that his Hollow side was pulling out of him and transforms it black again. Hollow Ichigo manages to get away in time, but his right hand has now turned human. The word instinct once again permeates through Ichigo’s mind.
Preview
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You know, in a way, I think it’s kind of ironic that Kariya was talking about how fighting continues forever since the entire Bount arc was a way for the fighting to continue while we waited for the Arrancar arc. I also find it amusing because shounen shows like Bleach essentially do keep putting out more and more strong people, just like Kariya says. That doesn’t mean it’s not entertaining to read or watch, but I sometimes can’t find myself taking it very seriously. I am once again reminded of DBZ and the over-9000 video.
Anyway, most of this episode with Byakuya and Kariya can be chalked up as anime-original material to lengthen the story a bit. I guess those later parts weren’t completely a waste if you could get past the fact that it was Kariya delivering the lines (I had hoped never to see him again). Hollow Ichigo still got his king and horse point across, and I liked how they animated Kensei and Lisa fighting Hollow Ichigo (even though they didn’t show Ichigo’s arm flying off), so overall this was a good episode. Now that I think about it, the preview shows Zaraki for next week’s episode, just like the manga has it, so that vision might help tie in the Byakuya and Kariya scenes a bit more.
May 2, 2007 at 3:37 pmKami
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Another nice episode….whats up with byakuya though
May 2, 2007 at 3:42 pmHeiae
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What did they do to my favorite chapters?!
WHAT DID THEY DO!?!?!
May 2, 2007 at 3:44 pmlouis1552
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WOW~
May 2, 2007 at 3:51 pmKaris
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Just how low can the quality go??
But anyway, I didn’t see anything bad about this episode though this sure was surprising seeing Kariya again…but I’m expecting more of the manga than the anime.
May 2, 2007 at 4:00 pmMyst
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This episode sucked hairy wet ass thru a straw. The animation was bad enough to annoy the hell out of you and right when you thought it can’t get any worse they decided to show that stupid mothe*****ing filler episode all over again.
This was THE BEST Bleach chapter after S.S and look what they did to it. It not only destroyed this entire episode but also ruined the next episode when kenpachi is supposed to come in. This is NOT Funny. I’m so angry I want to bite someone in the face.
This is how NOT to make an Episode.
May 2, 2007 at 4:05 pmGStrike-
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wtf why is buyakuya in there? and also Kaiyra.. Kenpaichi is in the next episode wtf?
May 2, 2007 at 4:07 pmNear
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I’m not so sure about Bleach anymore..
May 2, 2007 at 4:12 pmMedigo
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kariya isnt that bad sheesh…
May 2, 2007 at 4:20 pmHAHAHA
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F*** BLEACH ANIME, THEY KILLED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets go cut their heads with a dull axes, while being strung up over a flaming nuclear waste site filled with mutated Nile crocs!!! LETS GO!!!
May 2, 2007 at 4:23 pmWences
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Hi there i like the serie bleach but i like to talk with fans of other countries. so please add my msm if you like . my msm is wenceslao_999@hotmail.com. bye bye
May 2, 2007 at 4:39 pmmewmew
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sigh. th only time when i thought bleach WAS excellent was in the first season (ep. 1-13)…i mean, even those episodes look better than what we have currently D:
i partly blame it on the fact that bleach was made into a primetime show at goldentime (the 6-8pm slot), because that means lots of advertising, merchandising (bleach stickers, and stationery sets, anyone?), and a general “downgrade” in quality and all that jazz to suit the elementary school boy audience (which is the same trap naruto, one piece, dragon ball, d-greyman, and sooo many other shounen fall under).
if shounen was treated like death note-e.g., higher budget, no fillers, aimed at an older/mature audience, i think it wont look like this, but we have no other choice, so i ll continue watching. T.T
May 2, 2007 at 4:50 pmHaohmaru
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Get the fuck out @HAHAHA. Bleach’s never been this good. Just because there are a couple of scenes with filler character doesn’t mean it’s bad. Bleach animation and music has never been this good.
May 2, 2007 at 4:53 pmisabel
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This has nothing to do with the manga.
May 2, 2007 at 4:59 pmFearTheReaper
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Lemme get this straight ? You guys want to never see fillers for a while, but bitch about them adding anime original material ? Get a life.
BTW this episode was nasty (in a good way) ;)
May 2, 2007 at 4:59 pmKaito
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People probably wouldn’t be complaining so much if they hadn’t spoiled themselves with the manga first.
May 2, 2007 at 5:02 pmMedigo
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its kinda hard to give fillers to deathnote, seeing as how the story works…and the manga was already over anyway
May 2, 2007 at 5:05 pmRandomGuy
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You have to keep in mind they’re trying to 1) prevent as many fillers as possible by extending this and 2) save their budget for the fights to look as incredible as they’ve been.
At least be thankful that Kenpachi’s appearance and the Full Hollow Ichigo weren’t stuck in this episode >_
May 2, 2007 at 5:05 pmChaos2Frozen
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/shrug
I guess it makes them feel like a big man complaining about shows for nothing…
May 2, 2007 at 5:09 pmKojak
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I think it’s ok for them to include all this anime related material to make time. I already watched bounto’s fillers and i don’t care if they re-show some parts in the manga original story. It’s far better than new fillers.
May 2, 2007 at 5:10 pmkaplan
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this isnt bleach anymore. what the hell think this kubo.his perfect work ruining.
i know 1 episode consume many chapters but must be other ways to keep distance to last manga chapters. im really hate this kind of trick. in the end these are top 1 chapters of manga and needs more more quality and loyalty to manga.
at last it seems this crap studio thinks about only money. well it cant be helped ;its a common sense anyway :S.
forgive me dear bleach fans(including me) bleach isnt bleach anymore. from now on im only waiting for Code GEASS. :( damn damn damn.
May 2, 2007 at 5:11 pmManji
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I’m sorry whats the problem with the ep?
Also, Boss! Have you seen Seto no Hanayome?
Its like Nagasarete Airantou only not *cough* Maybe t’is a good idea to take a look
May 2, 2007 at 5:19 pmHeiae
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No one has “spoiled” themselves on the manga. If anything, we spoiled ourselves on the amazing quality of it, which, in terms of both art and storytelling, is better than the anime. When the anime screws this up, it negatively affects the Bleach’s fanbase, or at least us who take pride in Kubotite’s workmanship. I actually appreciate quality, and Bleach’s quality is seriously taking a hit. I wouldn’t watch the anime at all anymore if it weren’t for those few glimmers of hope we get every once in a while.. (Episode 114, 117, 121 for instance).
God, if only the show could stay 121 quality forever. And I’ll continue to say that shounen SERIOUSLY need seasons. Filler arcs are so painful.
May 2, 2007 at 5:29 pmMedigo
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the bleach manga has great art, but the story moves to slow chapter-wise. The final seconds of this episode was a week worth of manga material
May 2, 2007 at 5:29 pmMedigo
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and yes people whine way to easily these days..
May 2, 2007 at 5:37 pmNastharl
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I have no problem with them putting anime original chars in. If you just want to watch the manga all over again…. go read the manga. its the same crap.
Pretentious anime twats annoy me… If a show is good its good.. if its bad its bad… why does it matter where a perticular scene was in the manga, or if the wording is slightly different. If its good its good. No manga is perfection, or worth talking about the awesomeness of their work… Its comics guys… its written for adolescent boys…. Seriously chill out.
May 2, 2007 at 5:39 pmHAHAHA
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Dude… if it followed the manga i wouldn’t complain, besides the filler fight scenes suck donkey balls.
PS. NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! @Haohmaru
May 2, 2007 at 5:40 pmHAHAHA
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and it was good till there was no more blood.
May 2, 2007 at 5:41 pmHAHAHA
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and fillers, random flash-backs, and well they f’d it up.
May 2, 2007 at 5:43 pmFearTheReaper
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Come on, the quality wasn’t THAT bad. (Remember the fillers where Karyia had the wrong hand?) Enjoy the story, don’t nitpick it to death.
May 2, 2007 at 5:45 pmcircus
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i don’t understand people, that take great pleasure(?) in finding something, okay, anything, that don’t match their-absolutely-flawless-logic and complaining till The end of days.
i’m manga reader and i still find bleach good, not so omg-thats-brilliant type, but good show.
look at naruto in comparision, i’m basically skipping 80% of episode, cause it’s soo boring, that i find clicking the only option to stay awake….and that’s for “manga” material.
just do your math and quit complaining about every little thing, we’re not children here.i hope.
cheers.
ps: sorry for my english, not a native :)
May 2, 2007 at 5:46 pmTidus
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if it just follow the manga, then you might as well continuing reading it. Why you still want to watch the anime? It just want to add something new to it and most important, it does not change the any major plot in the anime. In a way, it failed and doesn’t appeal to fans, but it is not necessary to bash the whole anime. Overall, i think bleach did a pretty good job.
You must understand the studio is the one in charge now, and not the writer to decide wad to animate.
May 2, 2007 at 5:50 pmIzuru
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People just keep complaining because of Kariya. Man, this is Bleach Anime. Kariya was part of Bleach Anime, and he had an impact on Ichigo, like Byakuya and Zaraki. Get over it. You’re just complaining because a “filler” character is “screwing” the story, while the story actually never made more sense than now. All the Bount Arc was about Ichigo being afraid to use Bankai because of Ogihci taking over, and Kariya foreshadowing Ichigo’s eventual fall. Pierrot did that thinking that this episodes would come some day, and in my opinion they did a good job. Like it or not, filler characters are part of the anime storyline. Get over it, or go read the manga instead.
May 2, 2007 at 6:20 pmasian182
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lol best part is about 2 come
May 2, 2007 at 6:25 pmInuhanyou
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Wow this episode was pretty awsome! It felt super long although not actually boring..i had abit of sadness at the byakuya fight because they reused many of the scenes from their battle in episode 58..but other then that the episode was AWSOME. Ogihci’s moves with zangetsu are fricken made of win.
May 2, 2007 at 6:30 pmHAHAHA
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perhaps I’m expecting to much from them…
May 2, 2007 at 6:44 pmMyst
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First of all to those of you who say “if you don’t like it, don’t watch it”. It seems as if some of you have completely forgotten the fact that the anime is made for the fans and bleach is also being broadcasted in English therefore we have the fucking right to complain.
Now where do I start?
I’ve never seen so many egregious problems in a single episode of a series, like, ever. This is a list of them from just the first half I watched:
- Ichigo’s Hollow voice in the real world sounded like Prince using a voice synthesizer.
- The animation was all over the place in terms of quality. Some parts looked cool, other’s looked completely amateurish.
- The Byakuya and Kairya scenes seemed entirely random and gratuitous.
- During the Byakuya scene, it sounded like Ichigo and Byakuya were repeating the same three lines repeatedly.
- They rehashed footage from 59 in the Byakuya scene.
- Why the fuck was Ichigo hanging off the cliff, when he can stand on spiritons in the air? If they were going for dramatic effect, they pretty much screwed it up.
They deflated all the momentum they’d built up from episode 114 in one episode. Great fucking job, Studio Pierrot, you’ve screwed up on two manga adaptations after coming back from tedious, weak-sauce filler.
Here’s some more fun stuff I saw and felt after seeing the second half:
- The filler stuff felt stretched out (Bounto arc style), while the canon stuff seemed really rushed. Why the fuck didn’t they do it the other way around?
- The scenes when Hollow Ichigo talked about the king, and Ichigo got back Zangetsu, seemed underdone in terms of how much dramatic weight they were given. I was expecting them to be handled with much more flair. The fact that this was done with my two favorite scenes from the fight made this the worst part of the episode for me, by far.
- Why were the energy effects done so well, while the people were so spottily animated?
So yeah, this was one of the worst adapted episodes in the entire series. When you’re reminded of the first few episodes of the series, that’s when you know they fucked up.
Sorry for the long post but it pisses me off when I read some of your replies.
@omni:
if you find this post too long or inappropriate,feel free to delete it :)
May 2, 2007 at 7:00 pmtensai_otaku
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Look people WE are talking about BLEACH here so don´t make me angry
because my HOLLOW(vizard mask) part could come out and you will all be sorry!!!
I have a green mask, because I am from Brazil ( I was nicknamed the greenberet shinigami or sorudato J and my ougi is called ” J DARRRRRRRRRRRR!!! ” :D LOLLLLLLLL )
:P sorry too much gaogaigar here T_T!!
May 2, 2007 at 7:02 pmCeles
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Wow people these days spaz way to easily. You only have a right to complain if you’re buying the dvds and the manga. I highly doubt a lot of these complainers are buying dvds and manga. So before you start acting like maniacs (wait you already are) you should ask yourself why you have the right to complain if you’re not contributing to the anime world. I thought the anime episode looks quite good. I haven’t read the manga but if i did maybe i’d be a little mad but i’d get over it cause its not gonna kill me -_-
May 2, 2007 at 7:04 pmMedigo
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about the cliff thing, people in soul society cant fly while they can in the human world..
May 2, 2007 at 7:09 pmtensai_otaku
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YES people Celes is right we are talking about PIERRO STUDIOS here the only one that:
” MAKES YOU (OTAKUS) LOOK LIKE A CLOWN !!! ”
OR
PIERRO STUDIOS THE OLY ONE WITH PHRSES LIKE:
” YOUR ANGRY FACE IS A JOKE FOR US !!! ”
OR EVEN WORSE:
” BUY THAT SHIT ON DVD AND YOU WILL BE A CLOWN FOR SURE!!! ”
:D :D :D( sorry omni I got overreacted here…..a little!! )
May 2, 2007 at 7:27 pmnowhere man
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Gee, some people are never happy. -_-
Seriously, I am annoyed by all the whining and complaining in here. ZOMG, THEY ADDED FILLER TO AN EPISODE SO THEY KILLED THE STORY!
Plese, get off your high horses. Take a look at where the anime is currently. And take a look at where the manga is currently. The manga can’t be anymore than 60 chapters ahead. We’re going to get more original anime storylines/plot elements. It’s obvious.
The Bount arc is now anime canon, everyone needs to deal with it and shut up.
May 2, 2007 at 7:29 pmHAHAHA
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dude you must not care for the manga.
May 2, 2007 at 8:17 pmSad, sad, people
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Its sad how people complain about things they cannot control… Pathetic really.
“OMG!! MANGA ROXXORS, HOW’Z DEY DO DAT WITH MY MANGA”
Grow up son.
May 2, 2007 at 8:53 pmannoying, annoying people
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@Sad, sad, people and other whiny babies who like filler episodes
Do you understand (that is if you are capable of thinking) why some of us would complain about the anime or you just write that crap because you want attention (having an attention deficit disorder in which case I recommend you go see a doctor) or angry responses because you feel like being bullied at your kindergarten? I’m happy there is a place to talk about how crappy this episode is however it is not just this episode, it’s painfully watching my favorite anime being brutally chopped to death by bunch of talentless, clueless, money-hungry animators who have no respect for the Manga or their fans in general. I don’t watch bleach to see fillers; I watch it because I want to see the Manga materials being animated.
Now now, I am not asking you to comprehend all this (since some of you are obviously not capable of doing so) what I am asking you is “at least try comprehending the simplest fact” that is” the people’s right to complain” BECAUSE this anime is made for them in the first place.
I am done with all this, this episode sucked. End of story.
May 2, 2007 at 9:00 pmNastharl
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Anime isn’t made for the fans. Manga is not made for the fans. Its made to make money. If they made no money, they wouldn’t do it.
May 2, 2007 at 9:01 pmShinji103
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*sigh* As soon as I saw Kariya in the screenshots, I knew I’d find a whole ton of manga fanboy whining…
Get over it, little kids. I read the manga and love it. I also watch the anime. I love it too. Now stop whining. If you don’t like how the anime is doing, then don’t watch it and don’t get the DVDs. Well, that wouldn’t be such a good thing actually, because it was manga fanboy hate and boycotting during the fillers that screwed Rurouni Kenshin and got the show cancelled before the final arc of the manga could be animated. Oh, and I liked the fillers from Rurouni Kenshin too. And I read the Rurouni Kenshin manga.
Everybody else took everything else I wanted to say. :D
May 2, 2007 at 9:10 pmnam
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errrrr i dont know about you guys because i havnt read the manga and its been fine for me. i understand the quality isnt as good as when they were fighting the arrancar, but its not horribly bad. i dont see any real disfiguration last week like a few people said except for maybe the hand (at least i think it was a hand) when he grabbed hiyori by the throat.
May 2, 2007 at 10:19 pmCraziplaya21
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wow, that was a good ep ^^
sucks gotta wait another week >_>
May 2, 2007 at 10:40 pmkl
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Sheesh. If you want the storyline to follow the manga exactly, do the sensible thing: read the manga and IGNORE THE ANIME!!!
Don’t bother others with your nonsensical complaints. There’s bound to be differences betweeen manga and anime. -_-
May 2, 2007 at 11:55 pmsdf
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Well, in Anime Kariya WAS part of the story… if he had been present for the filler season, then killed off and then all characters would have had a sudden amnesia concerning everything that happened during the Bount Arc it would’ve actually seemed a lot weirder to me than Ichigo remembering one of his stronger opponents.
And who doesn’t agree – face it, it’s a hell of a lot better than if they put that annoying Ririn screwing around in Ichigo’s head (she’s in most episodes anyway and does absolutely NOTHING).
May 3, 2007 at 12:26 ammewmew
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amen! Heiae!
first, for the record im not complaining-im more sad because bleach had amazing potential (once again, see the first 13 episodes, esp. when renji + byakuya first appear).
two, i DO buy the manga/dvd, so saying the pretentious whiners “do not buy them” is silly.
three, i speak japanese, and lived in tokyo for twelve years, and understand perfectly the difference between goldentime anime vs. stuff showed at midnight. blab as much as you want, but generally speaking goldentime anime is completely inferior to anime in the midnight slots we all love (e.g., haruhi, ouran, NANA, code geass, samurai champloo, theres too many to count). Heiae struck the point completely on. IF bleach was set in the midnight timeslot, it would probably be even BETTER than it is now, minus the anime inconsistensies (e.g., the ending theme for bleach right now is full of it)-and like series in midnight slots, it could be done in seasons, not continously…
and those who are swearing and attacking the bleach watchers who adore the manga and not the anime: im pretty sure you, yourself, will also complain and had complained about some anime in the past, correct? not everyone will like everything you like, and being unable to recognize this and call US pretentious is slightly off-putting.
May 3, 2007 at 1:48 amWoe
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Hats off to Heiae and Mewmew, they actually know what they’re talking about where as the rest or most of the rest is just plainly spewing crap out of their mouths(fingers? keyboards?).
1) First off, this is not about Kariya or about Byakuya its about the filler scenes (re-hash more? They practically copypasta from that one episode which was made of win and many intarwebs (hence you guys thought the quality wasn’t so bad, durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) vs the scene with Kariya which was also some what rehash (remember when Ichigo was getting bankai?) only difference was that they really didn’t do much fighting in that scene (hmmmmmm I wonder why the animation quality wasn’t as good as it was 5 min ago from the Byakuya fight, oh yeah copypasta vs LQ new stuff filler). Filler stuff totally unnecessary in this episode, now before you start hacking away at your keyboard to attack this point think with your brain (yes you have one and you should use it) for a moment where they can put in fillers with more subtlety if they really weren’t into just milking the series for tons of money and you people just accepting it cause you’re a fanboy (yes you who DOES NOT read the manga and DOES NOT like to nitpick is a fanboy because you think the series itself ok as long as you get to watch it, think about that for a moment and let it sink in.)
Heres the answer to the question I posed above, you can just add more fighting scenes, more action into the fights instead of just copypasta now isn’t this a simple solution considering the filler doesn’t affect the story in anyway and adding more scenes/frames to the fights would have the same effect and probably better results.
2) Second what’s wrong with reading the manga and watching the anime and then complain? I certainly see no problem with that if you have a valid point as to why you’re complaining (in this case see point number one above). What I do have a problem with is people that just go “it wasn’t so bad” when they actually SEE the flaws and go “its not so bad” cause its so visible you didn’t even have to rewind it a bit to see that they were flaws I mean if you didn’t see the flaws and said that “it wasn’t so bad” then I can let it slide but if you did see it and let it slide you’re just promoting crappier quality anime cause you’ll let other things slide too.
3) What you guys don’t understand (those that kept going “additional original material”) wtf is additional original material! Kariya coming out and speaking for about less than 20 lines of this does not equal “additional original material” cause the stuff they say about Ichigo is like the horse that’s been beaten to death, kicked to the curb stomped on by little kids and the flesh even rotted away already thats how badly re-hashed those lines are (if you didn’t catch it go look at your other episodes subs might not be the same but its a shounen so the lines can’t be too different from the rest or go learn some Japanese)
Here let me fill you in on whats “additional original material”. “AOM – additional original material (yes i abbreviated that myself sue me)which would be a filler that actually has some plot device where as it is just milking would be something that you haven’t seen before and it affects the storyline in some way, an example of that would be the Bounto arc where it WASN’T in the manga and I’ll even give you an explanation as to why it is so. It is so because it fills in the gap between the time Aizen took the Hyougoku and the time in which it was needed to activate (they said something around one year or so I believe) where as they didn’t have that in the manga and it was just BAM insta-Arrancar. This allows a bit of leeway for even more of that “AOM” that you love to swing around with like a club or something cause you some how seem to think the manga has to be bad or something.
4) This one is just my personal vendetta towards that idiot Sad, sad, people: we complain not cause we can’t do anything about it we complain as to do something about it. One of us complaining about it might not make much of a difference but if we band up together and stick it to the man they WILL have to listen to us at the very least even if they don’t take actions (they the producers,animators,tv-people, etc). Also I’m gonna call bullshit on what you said cause I’m sure you never talked trash, complained about politicians before cause you can’t do jack about it right ::rolls eyes::
5) Sorry for people having to read through all of that ranting ^^;;
May 3, 2007 at 2:07 amtensai_otaku
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I got it people the problem is:
that stuff of ichigo dreamming on it´s own head (not materialy speaking :D )and his own mind making a prankster with another dream on his dream and he is still dreaming with that other dream…………………………………………….LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
I know ,I know TOO MUCH DREAMS!!!you´d say!!! :P
But at least you could say that ” HE HAS THE MATRIX ON HIS HEAD ” ^_^!!!!!!(LOL)
OBS : they always like to close the episodes on nice parts and that´s why I HATE THEM(T_T)
because they make this on purpose!!!
May 3, 2007 at 2:38 amIntegratedDataEntity
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Despite all rants about how crappy and manga-killing this episode, it actually kept in at least about 95% of the original manga content. If more manga stuff had been put in, then this episode would’ve used up at least another chapter or two. Since the Arrancar arc started, the anime has been trying hard to avoid the trap it had fallen into in the pre-filler arcs where it was using 4 chapters per episode (that basically caused a year of fillers to create some distance between anime and manga). Even with an average of two or three manga chapters per episode now, the show is still catching up to the manga, which at the current rate will happen in anywhere between 26 to 52 episodes. Obviously, that will cause problems is Kubo doesn’t finish the manga by then, so the anime often has to slow down a bit.
Furthermore, this episode seems to try to address one of the biggest complaints about the filler arc: how did Ichigo suddenly get so weak all of a sudden? It’s so illogical that Ichigo, who was kicking *ss in SS, started getting beaten left and right starting with the Bount arc that one can only attribute it to shonen-plotlines. This episode, with the dreams of Ichigo’s last 2 “bosses” tries to provide some sort of explanation.
Bash it if you like, but you may just bash the show even more if Studio Pierro goes back to using 4 chapters per episode and ends up branching away from the manga or creating another year or so of filler episodes soon because of that.
May 3, 2007 at 2:56 amDelirious Dragonfly
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lol…what a weird ep…seems a bit pointless..
May 3, 2007 at 3:07 amkaplan
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of course all complainers(including me) know anime tryin hard to keep distance to manga. BUt why the animation quality so bad ? voices too. if u look kubos drawings ever character’s design looks more detailed and real. and of course we r going to mad; isn it obbvious.
cause pierrot has a potantial to make a wonderful episodes but instead of this bastards killing high ranked chapters. im realy dont understand. this is bleach not naruto.
to anti complainers stuff: did u read a manga chapter ? if u did then please answer me death note manga+anime VS bleach manga+anime. which one has a top1 audio+animation quality ? we r not only talking about damn fillers .is it clear to u ?
May 3, 2007 at 3:31 amspeaking to those losers
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if u guys out there really wants a 100% same thing from manga to anime, you guys should just stick to the mangas. it is good to see some changes on anime, it normally give me surprise to see something i didn saw on manga…
May 3, 2007 at 3:41 am@Woe
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quoting:
“they can put in fillers with more subtlety”
Oh really? And you really believe noone would complain?
[sarcasm]Nooooooo, a REAL Bleach anime episode has to cover exactly 1 chapter of the manga with zero additional content, scenes or angles, and be drawn by Tite Kubo himself. One episode would probably be 5-10 minutes the most and thats with opening and ending included. Of course people would still whine about the soundtrack and the voice actors but there’s not much one can really do about it. But wait, you could just get the bleach soundtrack and listen to “Number One” while reading the manga out loud and get pretty much the same effect.[/sarcasm]
The bottom line is, people will always find something to complain about, there has never been an anime based on manga that adds no additional things at all.
May 3, 2007 at 4:39 amExinjeru
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I find a lot of enjoyment in watching hardcore fans go ballistic over any perceieved fault.
May 3, 2007 at 5:04 amcircus
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it’s like sumo-fight, but without any impact on a world :)
May 3, 2007 at 11:40 amKenji
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i think most of you are just complaining. “bleach isnt bleach anymore”
what the heck does that mean.. bleach is always bleach because that’s the only thing it can be. sure its not following the manga very well, but most of the time it pretty much is. put urself in the shoes of the animation company (i forget who does bleach). you are creating anime to make money. u think that sounds wrong but it’s true. they aren’t just doing it for fun. i’m not saying they arent having fun, i’m just saying they have to worry about money too. if adding 5-10 minutes of filler to an episode or two once in a while keeps them from going 70 episode filler frenzy (naruto) then i dont mind. infact, some of the things they brought in using kariya is very relevant to what ichigo is going through. as for animation, if some of u need to, get ur eyes checked caus from what i remember, ichigo vs grimjow and the last episode with ichigo vs vizards was pretty good imo. infact this so called ‘filler’ episode had good animation too.
anyway, those are my 2 cents. it’s what u get after working in the business industry for a while. i’m sure they dont really like to make filler episodes either. imo its better than making it 100% filler.
May 3, 2007 at 1:41 pmkl
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For those who know what you’re talking about, good. It’s those who complain for the only reason that anime doesn’t equal manga that gets on people’s nerves.
May 3, 2007 at 5:12 pmPyroman162
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Omg guys calm the hell down its just a show, if you dont like the anime, keep reading the manga geeze. I read the manga before seeing this episode, and I still thought the episode was great. You people have such specific standards.. you expect it to be exact to the manga.. all it does is ruin it for you, thus why most of you on this forum didn’t like this episode.
May 3, 2007 at 5:54 pmPaddington
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HAY GUYS HERE’S SOMETHING!
Bleach (the manga) bearly has a year on Bleach (the anime). Ask yourselves which is worse: having another YEAR of fillers, or having OCCASIONAL anime-only scenes.
And as far as the Bount arc goes, here’s something else: at least they kept a COHERANT STORY ARC. If Bleach was anything like Naruto (the 40% filler show!) then we’d have a bunch of small, crappy filler arcs instead of an awesome one.
Maybe you could have a better chance at understanding this: TV Tokyo CANNOT just take the show off the air until the manga is at a reasonable level ahead. If you don’t like it, no one is holding a loaded magnum to your head forcing you to watch, and maybe you could watch something ELSE, or nothing at all, and then you’d have no reason to bitch.
I can’t believe the audacity and sheer fucking GALL of these people who expect perfection 100% of the time. There is a new episode of Bleach at least 45 weeks a year. If you were charged with creating a twenty-four minute show FORTY-FIVE TIMES A YEAR, don’t kid yourself that you wouldn’t fuck up. Unlike Death Note which, before it premiered, had a set episode number already determined, you CANNOT EXPECT PERFECTION for a show with a still-ongoing manga.
To conclude, STOP BITCHING. If you think watching the show with subs or in Japanese or whatever makes you a purist, and therefore you have a need to voice your lame, shitty opinions, then you’re wrong. All it does is make you a PRETENTIOUS DICKHEAD WHO NEEDS TO LEARN TO SHUT THE FUCK UP.
And I’m done.
May 3, 2007 at 7:43 pmShippoyasha
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I like Kariya as well. He was one of the few Bounto arc characters that mattered at all regardless. Nice ibetweener IMO.
May 3, 2007 at 7:49 pmPurpleys
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Ehh, I think that some of the stuff they changed was unnessecary, but who cares. I skipped through most of the filler stuff, so i have no opinion on Kariya’s appearence. I like it when the anime keeps to the manga, but a few changes are nessecary, obviously. Bleach has mostly kept faithfully to the storyline thus far (minus the fillers), so I’m not going to freak out.
Hollow Ichigo never seems to change at all, though. He’s evil as heck no matter if it’s the manga or anime. o.o
May 3, 2007 at 9:41 pmAznSoulBoy
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It seems like people wont ever shut up when they dont appreciate a single thing.
You could say that it was somehow a bit boring or u could not take too seriously those fillers thing. But damn, stop bashing, complaining like hell for nothing. I wonder when will they ever learn? If they dont appreciate the animated, then go read the manga.
Overall, this episode is good. And, I dont know each times I see Ichigo in Hollow Form…he reminds me Frieza haha.
May 4, 2007 at 2:36 amShippoyasha
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Yeah. Like some others have said, the Kariya segments played well into the context of what happened in the anime so far. The anime is not the perfect equivalent to the manga and Studio Pierrot basically created the anime canon with their original characters. No big deal when it doesn’t really negate or influence the manga story all that much.
May 4, 2007 at 2:22 pmChado
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I must admit that I am one of those who are pessimistic of the bleach anime ever since the launch of the bounto arc because I personally can’t help but compare it to the bleach manga. However, we have been shown positive signs from the arrancar arc that it might give the manga the justice that it deserves.
The anime team should have been split into two groups. One group working closing with Kubo tite in order to ensure the quality of the anime is maintained and respects that of the manga. The second group should focus on making the filler episodes when the anime gets too close to the manga.
Note: The two groups are to be kept apart so that the anime contains no filler content.
This idea is probably riddled with problems including consumer disatisfaction but at least it ensures that the quality and content of the manga is reflected in the manga.
May 5, 2007 at 4:40 amChado
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Actually, this episode was just a filler and the next episode will probably be of much higher quality.
May 5, 2007 at 10:59 amAloneinVoid
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OH please, stop the bullshit about fillers. and know the difference…yes stuff like Naruto had fillers, but bleach bount arc can be considered “anime-original storyline with a few fillers”…It wont go away and im happy with it, cause Bount arc gave a much better insight on Ichigo feelings – bassically entire arc was used to develop Ichigo. Kariya is one of my favorite anime-only characters so far, with other being that chick with talking sword(her design ftw, although the voice sucked). For example Naruto had fillers, bleach episode with that “Karakura heroes” was a filler and so on. WHY? because they were for nothing. They didn’t add up to storyline of char-development. Bount arc was not a filler in its sense, but an Anime-Original arc, which added a lot of stuff into Ichigo’s character and gave the reasoning for what Ishida is doing now. Remember – Fillers are forgotten(the meaning itself “to fill up the space, just for filling up”), while anime-original arcs are not(Have u ever wondered why Studio Pierrot used an “bount arc” instead 70 episodic fillers?)
But now back to “ZOMG fillahs” stuff…
This episode contained ~74% of manga material and 24% of anime-only material, if you want to divide it into percentage. But i see no problem in it – in manga the scene with “you know what” comming weren’t developed well…In anime we see a better development on Ichigo’s situation and feelings, with his subconscious mind, in form of his two significant enemies, telling him how he sucks and WHY he sucks. While i see the suckage of constant usage of three dolls, i see no problems with stuff like in this episode…Why no one shouted “OMG FILLLERRRRS” at Ikaku-past episode? it was basically “fillered up” episode based on one panel of manga…But it was good. and now you all see Kariya’s face and start whining :D
P.s. For manga purists – I know how u feel, I’m one too(i developed even a hatred for certain anime studios ruining stuff *cough*tsubasa*cough*). But please – THIS IS ADAPTATION, and it at least follows everything like intended, nevertheless adding stuff which helps to explain stuff. Snap out of filler talks, as far as i’m concerned Bleach only had about ~10 episodes of fillers so far. Stfu already…how long can this pointless bashing continue?
May 5, 2007 at 8:38 pmnameless
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“People probably wouldn’t be complaining so much if they hadn’t spoiled themselves with the manga first.”
If anybody doesn’t like the anime: what the hell are you doing here wasting time of your life?
May 6, 2007 at 10:47 amShinn
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Well it still pointless no matter whats the result would comeout it will be the same
May 6, 2007 at 11:03 amAloneinVoid
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@Shinn
that can be said about non-filler, manga material also…[sarcasm] hell the middle part of story is pointless, lets just cut off the midle part and leave only the start and end[/sarcasm]
May 7, 2007 at 2:41 amAnime Gift Store
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Ew. I hate fillers ruining Bleach. At least it’s not as bad as Naruto filler.